Lok Sabha Debates
Maj. Gen.(Retd.) B.C. Khanduri, Avsm Called The Attention Of The Minister Of ... on 21 December, 2004
Title: Maj. Gen.(Retd.) B.C. Khanduri, AVSM called the attention of the Minister of Health and Family Welfare on the status of implementation of the decision taken to set up Medical Institutes on the lines of AIIMS, Delhi, in six states.
14.22 hrs The Lok Sabha re-assembled after Lunch at twenty-two minutes past Fourteen of the Clock.
(Shri Ajay Maken in the Chair) MR. CHAIRMAN: The House will now take up item No. 20. I would request Maj. Gen. (Retd.) B.C. Khanduri, AVSM to call the attention of the hon. Minister of Health and Family Welfare.
Status of implementation of the decision taken to set up Medical Institutes on the lines of AIIMS, Delhi in six states मेजर जनरल (सेवानिवृत्त) भुवन चन्द्र खंडूडी (गढ़वाल) : सभापति जी, मैं स्वास्थ्य और परिवार कल्याण मंत्री जी का ध्यान अविलम्बनीय लोक महत्व के निम्न विषय की ओर दिलाता हूं और प्रार्थना करता हूं कि वह इस संबंध में वक्तव्य दें :
"दिल्ली के 'एम्स' की तरह छह राज्यों में आयुर्विज्ञान संस्थानों की स्थापना हेतु लिए गए निर्णय के कार्यान्वयन की स्थिति के बारे में सरकार द्वारा उठाए गए कदम। "
THE MINISTER OF HEALTH AND FAMILY WELFARE (DR. ANBUMANI RAMADOSS): Mr. Chairman Sir, the Pradhan Mantri Swasthya Suraksha Yojna (PMSSY) launched in 2003 envisages to offer all specialities and super-specialities medical care and quality medical education in under-served States. Under PMSSY, it is proposed inter-alia to set up one AIIMS-like institution each in the States of Bihar (Patna), Chattisgarh (Raipur), Madhya Pradesh (Bhopal), Orissa (Bhubaneshwar), Rajasthan (Jodhpur) and Uttaranchal (Rishikesh).
Institutions are expected to become operational after three years from the date of approval.
The proposal for implementation of the Scheme has been cleared by the Expenditure Finance Committee and will now be placed before the competent authority for approval. Pending these clearances, start-up activities like construction of boundary wall, the process for selection of Project Consultant for providing comprehensive consultancy services and selection of architectural concepts/designs for AIIMS-like institution have been taken up.
मेजर जनरल (सेवानिवृत्त) भुवन चन्द्र खंडूडी : माननीय सभापति जी, मंत्री जी ने जो बयान दिया है, उससे मुझे बहुत दु:ख हुआ है। It is with immense regret that I have gone through your statement regarding implementation. ये छह अस्पताल 'एम्स' की तरह छह राज्यों में बनने हैं, लेकिन उनके बारे में मुझे कहते हुए बड़ी पीड़ा और कष्ट हो रहा है कि उनकी प्रगति बहुत धीमी है। It is not only painfully slow but also lethargic. मई, २००४ से, जब से यह सरकार बनी है, तब से इन्होंने एक ही काम अभी तक किया है और वह है व्यय वित्त समति के पास जाकर इन्होंने स्वीकृति ली है। उसके अलावा इन्होंने इन ६-७ महीनों में कुछ काम नहीं किया है। एम्स के लिए जो ६ जगह बनी थीं, उनकी कितनी आवश्यकता है, आज इससे पहले कालिंग-अटेंशन में आपने उसका एक मुद्दा उठाया था और सांसदों की राय थी वहां पर ओवर-लोडिंग इतनी ज्यादा है कि लोगों की ठीक तरह से देखभाल नहीं हो रही है। माननीय मंत्री जी, आप खुद एक डाक्टर हैं और हम आशा करते थे कि इस काम को आप तेजी से आगे बढ़ाएंगे। लेकिन हमें निराशा हाथ लगी है और तेजी से काम करने के बदले, लगता यह है कि जानबूझकर इसे धीरे-धीरे आगे बढ़ाया जा रहा है, यह बड़ी चिंता की बात है। पहले कालिंग-अटेंशन में भी इस पर बात की गयी थी। मुझे मालूम नहीं है कि माननीय मंत्री जी एम्स में कभी विस्तार से गये हैं। पूरे भारत से वहां पर मरीज आते हैं और वहां की जो इंटरनल सड़कें हैं, बीमार लोग वहां पड़े रहते हैं, सर्दी में ठिठुरते रहते हैं, एडमीशन के लिए वहां जगह नहीं है। चारों तरफ होस्टल टाइप जगह बन गयी हैं जहां ये मरीज एडमीशन से पहले रहने के लिए मजबूर हैं। माननीय मंत्री जी खुद एक डाक्टर हैं, वे इसकी जल्दी से जल्दी व्यवस्था करेंगे और ओवर-लोडिंग को विकेन्द्रित करके पूरे देश में फैलाएंगे। माननीय मंत्री जी ने अपने जवाब के पैरा तीन में कहा है कि योजना के कार्यान्वयन के प्रस्ताव को व्यय वित्त समति द्वारा स्वीकृति दे दी गयी है और इसे अब अनुमोदन के लिए सक्षम प्राधिकारी के समक्ष रखा जाएगा। It will now be placed before the competent authority for approval. आपने आगे कहा है और मैं इसे कोट करता हूं, "इस बीच, इन स्वीकृतियों के मिलने तक चारदीवारी का निर्माण, व्यापक परामर्शी सेवाएं प्रदान करने के लिए परियोजना परामर्शदाता के चयन की प्रक्रिया और अखिल भारतीय आयुर्विज्ञान संस्थान जैसी संस्था के लिए संरचनात्मक संकल्पनाओं, डिजाइनों के चयन जैसे शुरूआदी कार्यकलाप शुरू कर दिए गए हैं।" माननीय मंत्री जी, ये सब काम तो एनडीए के समय में हो गये थे, सात महीने पहले हो गये थे। लेकिन इन सात महीनों में ईएफसी की सैंक्शन देने के अलावा आपने कौन सा काम किया है, वह बताएं? एनडीए सरकार ने इन कामों को योजनाबद्ध शुरू नहीं किया, जैसा आपके जवाब में भी है, लेकिन प्लानिंग कमीशन से उन्होंने अप्रूवल ले ली थी और सैद्धांतिक रूप से ४,१५८ करोड़ रुपये की स्वीकृति ले ली गयी थी। एक करोड़ रुपया, प्रत्येक एम्स के हिसाब से दे दिया गया था और कई स्थानों पर तो चारदीवारियां भी बन गयी हैं। जितनी जमीनें प्रदेशों को चाहिए थी, वह छांटी गयीं और उनके ऊपर काम भी शुरू किया गया और प्रत्येक को एक करोड़ रुपया दिया गया, लेकिन पिछले सात महीनों से काम रुका पड़ा है। इस साल के अंतरिम बजट में ६० करोड़ रुपये की व्यवस्था की गयी थी, तो कम से कम उतना पैसा तो उनको उपलब्ध होना चाहिए था ताकि दस-दस करोड़ रुपया सबको मिल जाता और काम आगे बढ़ता। इन सात महीनों में आपने क्या किया है, वह बताएं? हम आपको सुनना चाहते हैं। We expect certain commitments and certain milestones from you. इसलिए मैं आपसे निम्नलखित सवालों के जवाब चाहता हूं।
पहला सवाल यह है कि सक्षम अधिकारियों की स्वीकृति कब तक लेंगे? आप इसे स्पष्ट कीजिए। उन्हें एक दिन में लेंगे, एक महीने में लेंगे या एक साल में लेंगे। यह स्वीकृति कब तक होगी? दूसरा सवाल, इन ६ एम्स अस्पताल खोलने पर कितनी लागत आने वाली है? क्या पहले एस्टिमेट का रिवाइज या रिफाइन किया गया है? कृपया यह बताएं कि इस वित्तीय वर्ष २००४-०५ में कितने धन का प्रावधान किया है? How much money are you catering for this financial year?
मेरा तीसरा सवाल यह है कि स्टेटमैंट में कहा गया है कि कॉम्पीटैंट एथॉरटी के एप्रूवल के बाद इसके पूरा होने में तीन वर्ष लगेंगे। जो भी एस्टिमेट है, उसका वर्षवार कितना एलोकेशन किया है?
If you could kindly tell us about the year-wise allocation, it would be helpful.
हम प्रेज्यूम कर रहे हैं कि दिसम्बर में इसका एप्रूवल मिल जाएगा। दिसम्बर २००७ में ये ६ के ६ फंक्शनल होने चाहिए। आपने वर्षवार कितने पैसे की व्यवस्था की है?
मेरा चौथा सवाल यह है कि एम्स की सह-संस्था बनी थी और उसका सर्टेन स्कोप ऑफ वर्क था। उदाहरण के तौर पर ५०० बैड का अस्पताल और ३५ स्पैशलाइजेशन का बंदोबस्त करने की व्यवस्था की गई थी। मेडिकल कालेज में १०० लड़के हर वर्ष हों, उसकी व्यवस्था थी। पीजी डॉक्ट्रेट और स्पैशलिस्ट डॉक्टरों की व्यवस्था थी। क्या उनको स्कीम में शामिल किया गया है या उसमें कोई परिवर्तन किया गया है या कमी की गई है?
मेरा अगला सवाल मेरे निर्वाचन क्षेत्र के बारे में है। ऋषिकेश में एम्स की तरह का अस्पताल बनना था। उसकी चारदीवारी बनी है। उसके लिए वर्षवार कितना एलोकेशन किया है और कब तक यह काम पूरा होने वाला है? यह कृपया बताएं।
अंत में मैं ६ स्टेट्स की तरफ से दोबारा रिकवैस्ट कर रहा हूं। ये क्यों बने, यह आप भी जानते हैं। इन ६ स्टेट्स से बहुत से लोग यहां आते हैं लेकिन उनके रहने की व्यवस्था नहीं होती है। सांसद होने के नाते हमें इंस्टीटयूशन से रिकवैस्ट करनी पड़ती है। अनेकों दफा. अनेकों प्रकार के लोगों के सामने प्रार्थना और, निवेदन करना पड़ता है। तब किसी को एक हफ्ते के बाद, किसी को एक महीने के बाद और किसी को तीन महीने के बाद एडमिशन की डेट दी जाती है।
So, I would request the hon. Minister, who is also personally a practising doctor, to do it quickly. आपसे प्रार्थना है कि इसे जितनी जल्दी कर सकें, देश हित में करें और संतोषजनक उत्तर दें। आशा है कि आप स्पैसफिक माइल स्टोन लगाएंगे।
सभापति महोदय : मेरा माननीय सदस्यों से अनुरोध है कि कॉलिंग अटैंशन के ऊपर एज पर रूल्स केवल पांच सदस्य क्लैरफिकेटरी क्वैश्चन पूछ सकते हैं लेकिन बहुत सारे सदस्यों ने इसके ऊपर बोलने की इच्छा जाहिर की है। यदि माननीय सदस्य अपने आप को कनफाइन कर सकें और दो मिनट में क्लैरफिकेटरी क्वैश्चन पूछें तो इस पर सब लोग बोल पाएंगे। यह बहुत महत्वपूर्ण विषय है। इसमें ज्यादा पार्टसिपेशन हो पाएगा। मेरा माननीय सदस्यों से यही अनुरोध है कि वे कम समय लें और क्लैरफिकेटरी क्वैश्चन फॉर्म में ही प्रश्न पूछें।
SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Sir, the idea was mooted in the Tenth Plan and the NDA Government had taken a decision for setting up of six medical institutes on the lines of the AIIMS, Delhi all over the country. Even the then Prime Minister, Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee had laid the foundation-stone of one such institution in a place called Sijua near Bhubaneshwar a year back. It created a lot of enthusiasm in the hearts of the people of Orissa who generally come in very large numbers to Delhi for better medical treatment because it is not available in Orissa. But, unfortunately, Sir, there has been no sign of any activity with regard to the AIIMS Bhubaneshwar as yet.
In his answer, the hon. Minister has mentioned that the institutes are expected to become operational after three years from the date of approval. All the Oriya newspapers, day-in and day-out, publish the news item that not a single rupee has been allocated for the construction of the AIIMS hospital in Bhubaneshwar since the time the UPA Government has taken over. I was also under such an impression that probably the money has not been allocated. But here I come to know from the hon. Minister’s reply now that it has not been placed before the competent authority for even approval.
It is most surprising because he says that from the date of approval it will take three years for completion of this project. He has also not mentioned as to when the approval of the competent authority will be taken. The UPA Government say that they would implement reforms with a human face. What is the meaning of human face if they do not provide even minimum health facilities to the people of India? The Government is a continuing entity. The decision taken by the previous Government specifically for the benefit of the people of this country should be taken up by the following Government also.
So, I would like to ask two or three clarificatory questions on this matter. My first question is: do the Government have any intention of proceeding with the project or do they really want to shelve it?
My second question is: do the Government intend to allocate fund for the project in Bhubaneswar? Do the Government have a target set to complete the project? The Government should not say that it would be completed within three years after the competent authority accords the approval. When will the competent authority accord the approval? That is the moot question, because only after the approval it will take three years for completing the project.
Sir, many hon. Members are interested in asking clarificatory questions. It means that they are also interested to see that there should not be overcrowding and congestion in Delhi. I say this because our houses in Delhi are always full of patients. When one patient comes to Delhi for treatment, three or four attendants will also come with him. If there are more institutes of the standard of the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Delhi, in smaller places like Bhubaneswar, Rishikesh, Bhopal, Raipur, Patna and Jodhpur, then the overcrowding in AIIMS, Delhi will come down.
Sir, you yourself had mentioned a very pertinent point during your Call Attention that research and development work should be given more importance in AIIMS, Delhi. I believe that if more institutes are opened in other places, then AIIMS, Delhi will also be able to focus on research and development.
My last question is: when is the hon. Minister going to allocate money and when is he going to complete the project in Bhubaneswar?
SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL (CHANDIGARH): Mr. Chairman, Sir, because of the grossly inadequate medical care facilities in the country, there is no denying the fact that we do need a large number of good hospitals all over the country. But permit me to say when we talk of the intended six AIIMS-like institutes, I would, with all humility, like to submit that there was a conceptual flaw in the very beginning. Let us not forget the fact that All India Institute of Medical Sciences is the creation, or may be later, of an Act of Parliament as we have in the case of PGI at Chandigarh also. So, when we talk of AIIMS-like institutes, we are missing that point.
Sir, on a matter like this, I would not really like to go on party lines. But since a lot of emphasis was laid by Gen. Khanduri from the other side as if the NDA Government had done a wonderful thing, as if they had brought something out of the world and as if they had fetched something for the people from the moon, I only want to say one thing that....
MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B. C. KHANDURI : I had not added any politics in it.
SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL : Since this announcement was made only on the eve of the election, towards the end of the term, we should have been very clear that just an allocation of Rs. Six crore was grossly inadequate and nothing could have been done with that amount. If the Government was serious, then an Act of Parliament should have been passed and under that a mandate should have been given to the Government and that the Government should have taken it upon itself to execute the setting up of these six institutes in a time-bound manner.
But, nevertheless, the fact remains that it was a welcome initiative. I would even thank them for that. But at the same time, I am little amused also to find Shri Khanduri saying, ‘nothing whatever has been done during this period, while earlier six crores of rupees had been given’, which I said was grossly an inadequate amount. That reminds me of laying the foundation stone of four-laning certain roads from private premises.
MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B. C. KHANDURI : Sir, can we have a half-an-hour discussion on these roads? I would like to reply to his queries.
MR. CHAIRMAN : No cross talking please. Shri Bansal, please address the Chair.
SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL : Sir, he knows what I am referring to… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please continue on the subject.
… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing else will go on record. Shri Bansal, please continue on the subject.
(Interruptions)* MR. CHAIRMAN: No interruptions please.
श्री पवन कुमार बंसल : अगर आपने मेरी बात पर मामूली सा भी गौर किया होता तो ऐसा न कहती । मैं कहता हूं कि ‘एम्स’ टाइप अस्पताल चाहिए। उनके लिए कानून बना लिया था या कानून नहीं बनाया, इन सारी बातों पर आप लोगों को गुमराह करने की कोशिश कर रहे थे कि हम ‘एम्स’ टाइप इंस्टीटयूट दे रहे हैं।
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please address the Chair.
श्री पवन कुमार बंसल : लोगों को गुमराह करने की कोशिश हो रही थी कि ‘एम्स’ टाइप इंस्टीटयूट दे रहे हैं। अस्पताल चाहिए और आपको उस वक्त भी कहना चाहिए था कि हम अच्छे अस्पताल दे रहे हैं। It is my allegation that the then Government never planned to set up an institute like AIIMS.
SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): If we did not, then you also did not… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please do not interrupt. He is talking on the subject. Let him say. You got an opportunity and made your point. Please address the Chair, Shri Bansal.
SHRI PAWAN KUMAR BANSAL : Sir, I would like to know from the hon. Minister what was the allocation made initially when an announcement about setting up of these six institutes was made. What was the allocation? Was it only confined to Rs.6 crore? That means a nominal one crore of rupees for one institute. If I understand things, in one crore of rupees you can do nothing, not even raise the boundary wall that we are talking of.
*Not Recorded.
I would further urge the hon. Minister and want to know from him whether besides these six institutes -- which of course, Shri Khanduri made us wiser by telling us that these would be 500 bedded, with 35 specialities and a medical college also, those are welcome measures -- we would have some trauma centres on the Golden Quadrilateral. That is important because there is no denying the fact that we badly need large number of good medical institutes in the country.
Presently, I am not confining on the ‘research’ as we did in the morning. That is the mandate of the AIIMS and that is precisely the reason why I referred to that earlier that these institutes will not be like AIIMS because here the emphasis has to be on medical care, on accidents that occur in large numbers on our busy roads. Precisely, I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether those trauma centres would be set up.
I would like to know when these institutes come up or as there are a large number of institutes set up over the years, the period prior to last seven years – let me make that very clear – like Sanjay Gandhi Institute in Lucknow, Nizam Institute in Hyderabad and also other institutes, whether a system would be worked out to link all these important institutes of national importance. In fact, there are only two institutes of national importance, namely, AIIMS and PGI, Chandigarh… (Interruptions) This is important. Whether all these institutes would be linked to each other and whether there would be facilities of tele-medicine or e-medicine? What would be done in that regard so that a person coming from one institute, say in Dehradun, to either AIIMS or PGI, Chandigarh, could get advice from the doctors of these institutes? I would like to know whether the doctors there and also the doctors in various hospitals in the district headquarters would be able to interact with the experts here at AIIMS to provide the much needed critical medical health care to the patients.
सभापति महोदय : इसके बाद श्री रघुनाथ झा बोलेंगे। उससे पहले मैं माननीय सदस्यों से अनुरोध करना चाहता हूँ कि जिन तीन माननीय सदस्यों ने क्लैरफिकेटरी प्रश्न पूछे थे, उन्होंने ध्यानाकर्षण प्रस्ताव पेश किया था। बाकी जो सदस्य प्रश्न पूछें, वे अपनी बात केवल प्रश्न तक ही सीमित रखें।
श्री रघुनाथ झा (बेतिया) : माननीय सभापति जी, कोई सरकार अगर अच्छा काम करे तो उसे सराहा जाना चाहिए। जो छ: ‘एम्स’ खोलने का फैसला पूर्ववर्ती सरकार ने लिया था, उसमें बिहार में भी एक ‘एम्स’ खोलना था। किसी साधारण व्यक्ति ने नहीं, बल्कि देश के उपराष्ट्रपति जी ने वहां जाकर उसका शिलान्यास किया था और उसके लिए सैकड़ों एकड़ कीमती ज़मीन राज्य सरकार ने महत्वपूर्ण स्थान पर दी थी। लेकिन आश्चर्य है कि वर्तमान सरकार और माननीय मंत्री जी पालथी मारकर बैठ गए हैं। इसका क्या मकसद है? चाहे गोल्डन क्वाडि्रलेट्रल रोड बनाने की बात हो या अन्य कोई बात हो। अब ये उस जगह पर ट्रॉमा सैन्टर खुलवा रहे हैं। वहां के लोगों को इस ‘एम्स’ की आवश्यकता थी लेकिन अगर इसकी कोई प्रक्रिया पूरी नहीं हुई थी, तो कैसे प्रधान मंत्री जी को वहाँ ले जाया गया, उपराष्ट्रपति जी गए और शिलान्यास किया। क्या सरकार की जवाबदेही नहीं बनती है कि आज हम उसे पूरा करें। भारत की जनसंख्या का दस प्रतिशत बिहार में रहता है और उनके जीवन के साथ आप खिलवाड़ कर रहे हैं। इसे जल्दी से जल्दी कब तक पूरा करेंगे यह बताइए और यहां उसकी घोषणा कीजिए।
एक बात पर मैं इनसे सहमत हूँ, जैसा इन्होंने कहा कि छ: ‘एम्स’ बनाने का निर्णय जल्दबाज़ी में हुआ होगा। पार्लियामैंट के एक्ट के तहत ‘एम्स’ बना था। सरकार इनके लिए भी बिल लाए, जिसे हम जल्दी से जल्दी पास कर दें। जो कमी है उसे पूरा कीजिए और उसको जल्दी चालू करने की घोषणा कीजिए।
सभापति महोदय : श्री लाल सिंह। आप जल्दी से अपना प्रश्न पूछें।
चौधरी लाल सिंह (उधमपुर) : सभापति जी, कुछ बातें हैं जो प्रश्न से ज्यादा महत्वपूर्ण हैं।
सभापति महोदय : रूल्स परमिट नहीं करते हैं। आप प्रश्न पूछें।
चौधरी लाल सिंह : सभापति जी, आप बेहतर जानते हैं और मंत्री जी भी जानते हैं कि हमारे पूरे हिन्दुस्तान के लोग और खासकर मेरी रियासत जम्मू-कश्मीर के लोग यहाँ आकर कई महीनों सड़ते रहते हैं, ‘एम्स’ में लाइनों में खड़े रहते हैं मगर उनका नंबर ही नहीं आता। इतने ऑपरेशन वहाँ पर होते हैं कि जिनको कैंसर की बीमारी है, उन्हें पाँच महीने का समय दिया जाता है जबकि उसने १५ दिन बाद ही मर जाना होता है। आपने एक प्रश्न किया था और मैं उससे मुत्तफिक हूँ कि वाकई सिचुएशन बहुत खराब है। अगर कोई नहीं मानेगा तो उसको पाप लगेगा। वाजपेयी जी ने ठीक कहा कि मेरा दोतरफा रिश्ता है। वह डैफिनेट है। उम्र में होता है, लेकिन डिफैन्ड करना और किसी के क्वैश्चन की तबाही करना, यह अच्छा तरीका नहीं है।
मेरी रिक्वैस्ट है कि कोई तरीका बनाया जाए कि किसको प्रायॉरिटी देनी है। जो बड़े आदमी का होगा, किसी इन्फ्लुएंशियल आदमी का होगा, उसे तो जगह मिल जाएगी और गरीब को नहीं मिलेगी। इसके लिए आपने क्या सोचा है?
इसके साथ मैं कहना चाहता हूँ कि कोई भी सरकार हो, चाहे पहले की सरकार हो, या हमारी आए, हम कोई कमिटमैंट करके जाएं, तो उसमें कौन सी बुरी बात कर गए हैं? अगर उनके बनाने से हॉस्पिटल बन जाता, तो आज वहां ५० लाख आदमी, जो जम्मू प्रोविन्स के हैं, कम से कम वे आदमी रोते तो नहीं। वहाँ स्टोन लगा दिया गया, सब कुछ हो गया। हमें कौन सी परेशानी है? क्या हमारे पास पैसे खत्म हो गए? हैल्थ सबसे इंपॉर्टैन्ट है और उसके साथ एजुकेशन भी है। हैल्थ के साथ कंप्रोमाइज़ नहीं किया जा सकता। इसके लिए पैसे आपको कहाँ से लाने हैं और कहाँ खर्च करने हैं, इसे देखें। हमारे यहाँ अगर जम्मू से किसी को डोडा जाना है तो उस लास्ट के एरिया में पहुँचने के लिए दो दिन लगते हैं।
सभापति महोदय : जल्दी अपनी बात खत्म करें। आज बहुत बिजनैस है।
चौधरी लाल सिंह : मैं क्या करूँ, मसला ही ऐसा है। मैंने पर्सनली देखा है।
सभापति महोदय : स्पीच नहीं होनी चाहिए।
चौधरी लाल सिंह : यह स्पीच नहीं है। मैं आपसे कह रहा हूँ कि मेहरबानी करके उन ५० लाख आदमियों का ध्यान रखें। हमें इन्होंने ‘एम्स’ दिया। वह अपग्रेडेशन का था। हम पर इतना खर्चा नहीं था। शायद ९५ करोड़ या १०० करोड़ रुपये का था। वहाँ एक पत्थर लगा हुआ है। पता नहीं, उसमें क्या हो रहा है। मैं मंत्री महोदय से रिक्वैस्ट करना चाहता हूँ कि आपके पास भी वही कुर्सी है जो पहले के मंत्री के पास थी। यह कुर्सी वही काम करे, बल्कि उससे बढ़कर काम करे।
*m07 श्री जसवंत सिंह बिश्नोई (जोधपुर) : सभापति महोदय, हमारे मारवाड़ में कहावत है कि हाकम बदल जाता है लेकिन हुकम नहीं बदलता। राजा बदल जाता है लेकिन राजा ने जो आदेश दिया, वह कभी नहीं बदलता। अगर हम देखें तो राजस्थान के जोधपुर में एम्स का शिलान्यास हुआ, जैसे अभी श्री झा बता रहे थे। महामहिम उपराष्ट्रपति ने पटना में एम्स का शिलान्यास किया। इसी तरह जोधपुर में एम्स के शिलान्यास में देश के वित्त मंत्री, कृषि मंत्री और राजस्थान के सारे प्रमुख लोग थे। जब वहां महामहिम उपराष्ट्रपति गये तो उन्होंने पहले सारी जानकारी ली होगी कि जमीन का डिस्प्यूट या और कोई बात तो नहीं है। इसके लिए पहले कलैक्टर से एनओसी जाता है तब जाकर कोई शिलान्यास होता है। अब अडंगा लगा दिया गया कि पटना और जोधपुर में जमीन सरेंडर नहीं हुई, जमीन नहीं मिली जबकि जोधपुर की जमीन के बारे में मुझे जानकारी है कि वह काजरी की जमीन थी। उसे हैंडओवर कर दिया गया और उस पर तीन तरफ बाउंड्री वॉल बनी हुई है।
मैं स्पेसीफिक प्रश्न पूछना चाहूंगा कि जिस जमीन का पोजेशन कागज में हो गया, भौतिक रूप से वह जमीन ट्रांसफर हो गयी, उस पर बाउंड्री वॉल क्यों नहीं शुरू हुई ? जोधपुर का एम्स सिर्फ जोधपुर के लिए नहीं है। पश्चिम राजस्थान और राजस्थान, जहां हर वर्ष अकाल पड़ता है, गरीब लोग हैं, उनको यहां इलाज कराने में बहुत खर्चा करना पड़ता है। जितना खर्चा उनको यहां आकर रहने में लगता है, उतने खर्चे में उनका इलाज वहीं हो सकता है,यह सोचकर सरकार ने जोधपुर में एम्स का शिलान्यास किया था। मैं खास तौर से मंत्री जी से कहना चाहूंगा कि यह मानवता का प्रश्न है। इसमें किसी प्रकार की राजनीति न हो और मानवता के प्रश्न पर जोधपुर, पटना या ऋषिकेश में एम्स का शिलान्यास किया जाये और उसके कार्य को जल्द से जल्द शुरू किया जाये। …( व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : अभी एक और कालिंग अटैंशन भी है।
...( व्यवधान)
MR. CHAIRMAN : Now, the hon. Minister.
… (Interruptions)
DR. PRASANNA KUMAR PATASANI (BHUBANESWAR): Sir, I have given a notice. Please allow me to speak on this important matter. … (Interruptions)
SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY (KOKRAJHAR): Sir, please give me a chance to speak on this matter. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Dr. Prasanna Kumar Patasani. Please put only questions.
Nothing will go on record except what Dr. Patasani says.
(Interruptions)* *Not Recorded.
DR. PRASANNA KUMAR PATASANI : Sir, when the individual tree is green, the jungle will be green. When the individual of the society is healthy, then the entire country will be healthy. So, Sir, in AIIMS, Delhi, more than nine lakh patients are admitted, and you can see nowhere such number of patients who are admitted in the world. In order to reduce the number of patients who are admitted in AIIMS, Delhi, the then Union Government proposed to set up six such centres, and Orissa is one among them. After verifying the registers, they had chosen these centres. This was an innovative idea of the then Government. The then Government felt that there should be AIIMS model hospital in Bhubaneswar. Most of the patients from my constituency and from my State are coming to Delhi for treatment.
Sir, I would like to ask the hon. Minister, through you, one question. Could you kindly show me any capital of the State headquarters which does not have a single hospital or medical college?
Our State had witnessed super cyclone; our State had super drought, there is super poverty in our State… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Thank you for your super intervention! DR. PRASANNA KUMAR PATASANI : Sir, the Government should allocate more money. I request the hon. Minister to allocate more money to set up AIIMS model hospital in my State, particularly in Bhubaneswar.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Shri Bwiswmuthiary. Please put only questions.
SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY : Mr. Chairman, Sir, thank you very much for giving me this chance to speak on this matter. This is a very important issue. I come from a neglected and discriminated territory called ‘Bodoland’ in Assam, and this area, Bodoland territory, is a constitutionally recognized tribal area under the provision of the Sixth Schedule of the Constitution of India. This Bodoland territory was created in 2003 as a result of the second political Accord signed between the Government of India, the Government of Assam, and one particular Bodoland militant group called ‘Bodoland Liberation Tigers’. This area is not having any good medical facility. People are dying of malaria and some common diseases.
Our people are deprived of even the minimal health care facility. It is very much a neglected area. So, my one question will be, could I know from the hon. Minister in which States these six AIIMS model institutes have been proposed to be set up? Why the tribal dominated backward areas with special mention to the Bodoland territory in Assam and also the Constitutionally recognised other tribal areas of the country had been deprived of getting the AIIMS model hospital or institute? Is it not a great discrimination against the tribal people? My humble request to the Government of India is that let some more number of AIIMS model institutes be set up in those areas, including the Bodoland area, very quickly in the best interest of the tribal people. Otherwise, I will tell you, Sir, that this Government is also going to discriminate against the tribal people. So, I will strongly demand that more number of AIIMS model institutes should be set up in the tribal areas, including the Bodoland territory.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Now, the hon. Minister will reply.
… (Interruptions)
DR. ANBUMANI RAMADOSS: Sir, as much as the Members, I am also very much concerned. This project, like I said it in my statement, was envisaged at the end of the last year or to say just before the elections this year. It was announced and the foundation stones were laid in six States. I have given the number of States in the statement. A budgetary allocation of Rs.6 crore was allocated at that time to cater to the six AIIMS like institutions.
Sir, the hon. Member, Maj. Gen. Khanduri has asked the following questions about the slow pace of work. He said nothing has been done till date. He has asked whether the slow pace of work is deliberate and whether the Government wants to scuttle this project. I would like to state that in these six States which have been selected at that point of time, these six AIIMS institutions are much deserved because all these six States come at the bottom level of the human indices parameters. They have the highest number of infant mortality, maternal mortality, crude birth rate and crude death rate in all these six States. So, these institutions are much needed. … (Interruptions) I am coming to your question. They are much needed because of the parameters of human indices. For this, we want to start these institutions in these respective States. Also, we are loaded in Delhi. Patients from all over the country, from Orissa, North-East, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Madhya Pradesh and Rajasthan come to Delhi. We are loaded. Again, overloading of patients is another reason why the research work in the AIIMS institution in Delhi has come down.
Sir, at the time of envisaging this project, it was hurriedly done without following many of the procedures. We just cannot start a project of the magnitude of Rs.4,200 crore in one or two months. Where do we find the money for that? So, we are going through a process. Just laying the foundation-stones does not put an end to this process or does not start these institutions. As all the hon. Members know, there is a huge process, and we are going through the process.
Last time when the question came up in Parliament, I answered that we are going through the process of Exclusive Finance Committee (EFC). We are looking at that.
15.00 hrs. Today, the EFC has cleared the project. It is not like we are just sitting and doing nothing. Personally, I want to go ahead with this project. It is a much needed project and these are much deserving States. This is an on-going process. After the EFC’s clearance, we are taking it to the competent authority, the CCEA. It is going to go ahead.
I would like to state that the total project cost is about Rs. 3,904 crore, both in the Tenth Plan and the Eleventh Plan. Out of that, in the Tenth Plan, it is about Rs. 2,526 crore; and in the Eleventh Plan, it is Rs. 1,377 crore. This year, there is Revised Estimate of Rs. 150 crore till March; and further, in the next year, there is a Budget proposal of Rs. 1,024 crore.
All these six AIIMS-type hospitals are supposed to be built with a Budget of approximately Rs. 280 crore each. There would be not 500 but 850 beds with intake of about a hundred students in undergraduate courses. There are going to be specialty and super-specialty courses in 35 departments. In these six States, Government and private medical colleges are very less in number. So, we want to start undergraduate courses also in these institutions.
The hon. Member has asked whether I have visited the existing All India Institute. I was staying for three to four months in the guesthouse of the Institute. So, I know what is going on there. We are trying to improve that. The hon. Member also knows what is the situation there. We are trying our best. I can say, it is a team game and everybody is concerned about that. We are going to improve the facilities because there are a lot of patients coming from far and wide. Of course, there is also the question of construction of the boundary wall. Last year, Rs. 6 crore were allocated and this year about Rs. 60 crore have been allocated.
Out of the six States, only four have given the full land: Orissa, Madhya Pradesh, Uttaranchal, and Chhattisgarh. For the Patna Institute in Bihar, they have given only 37 acres out of the proposed 100 acres. So, we want extra land to go ahead with the proposal. In Rajasthan, in Jodhpur, the land has still not been given to the Central Government. There is still a little problem, which, I think, could be settled easily. So, this process is going on.
A question has been asked whether it is going to be completed in 2007. According to the answer I have given, it is three years from the date of initiation of the project, in fact, after going through the process. Now, already a consultant has been shortlisted and the Hospital Services Corporation, coming under the Ministry of Health has been entrusted with the job of getting competent people like consultants and those who would work on the design. All these things have been going on. It is not that only when we get the final permission we would go ahead. It is an on-going process. Once we get the go ahead, we would give it a big go and ensure that it brings down the load on the AIIMS in Delhi.
In the case of Hrishikesh, the status is the same. It is going on and we would bring it up as soon as possible. Mr. Swain had noted that it was envisaged in the Tenth Plan and wanted to know the status of what was going on in respect of the Institute at Bhubaneswar. We had asked for 150 acres there. The State Government is very much interested in this. As I said, it has to go to the competent authority, which is the CCEA. We are going through the process. I am trying to initiate it to be best of my capacity.
SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): When do you expect the clearance from the CCEA?
DR. ANBUMANI RAMADOSS: I cannot say anything about that.
SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Please try that it is done as quickly as possible.
DR. ANBUMANI RAMADOSS: That is what I am saying. I am trying to do it as quickly as possible. As you were rightly saying, in Delhi it has been overcrowded because of which we have already gone into it.
Mr. Bansal is a very learned colleague. He had also raised some important points. The allocation for the year 2003-04, as I have already said, is about Rs. 150 crore. I have also mentioned already the allocation for the next year.
In fact, Shri Pawan Kumar Bansal has put another query about the trauma centres, which was not conceptualised at that time when the Golden Quadrilateral was envisaged. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : No. Let him finish. It is not proper. Let him complete his statement.
… (Interruptions)
MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B. C. KHANDURI : May I correct you Mr. Minister? Could you yield for a moment? … (Interruptions)
DR. ANBUMANI RAMADOSS: Road traffic accidents is one of the highest killers. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Let him first complete his statement.
… (Interruptions)
DR. ANBUMANI RAMADOSS: Though this subject does not come under this, again, road traffic accidents are the highest killers and we need more trauma centres coming up all over the Highways. The Ministry of Health also have certain funds allocated for trauma centres on the Highways, but this is not enough. We have been talking with the hon. Prime Minister and also the hon. Minister of Road Transport to allocate more funds, to go into the trauma centres and to inter-link all these Institutes through tele-medicines. Definitely, when these institutes come up, we will link them.
The All India Institute of Medical Sciences, Delhi and PGI, Chandigarh have already been linked to couple of other institutes and all these Institutes will be linked so that the whole population of the country could be covered through tele-medicines.
Of course in Jammu and Kashmir, there is no proposal for a new AIIMS like institution. But we are upgrading the existing AIIMS like institution in Jammu and Kashmir.
As far as Jodhpur in Rajasthan is concerned, as I have already said, the land has not been given to us. … (Interruptions)
Now, I come to Assam. … (Interruptions)
SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY : You please spell out about…… (Interruptions)
DR. ANBUMANI RAMDOSS: The whole of North-Eastern Region was neglected all these years in the health sector. For that, the former Prime Minister, late Shri Rajiv Gandhi, had laid the foundation stone more than 20 years back in Shillong called `NEIGRIMS’, which is like another AIIMS like institution. A sum of more than 22 crore have been allocated for that hospital which is going to cater to the whole of North-East area and which is just two hours drive from Assam. We are bringing there a lot of super specialists, specialists, under-gradaute and post-graduate people. This hospital, which has come up by an Act of Parliament, is having an independent authority and it has got the Governing Council. The completion is expected by the end of next year and we are going to start this hospital. Once we start this hospital, the whole of the North-Eastern Region could be catered to. … (Interruptions)
SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY : I am not satisfied with the answer. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Let him finish. Nothing shall go on record except the hon. Minister’s statement.
(Interruptions)* DR. ANBUMANI RAMADOSS: I think, I have answered sufficiently to the hon. Member’s queries about these six Institutes. I am also very much concerned about them. We want to bring these Institutes as soon as possible to bring down the national averages for IMR and MMR and all the other parameters. I can rightly say that these six States are much under-served States in the health sector and we are trying to do our best to bring these Institutes. … (Interruptions)
*Not Recorded.
MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B. C. KHANDURI : I want to thank the hon. Minister for increasing the allocation this year from Rs. 60 crore to Rs. 150 crore. I just want to know how this money will be spent in the next three months at the rate of about Rs. 25 crore per year. Are you going to physically give it? … (Interruptions)
DR. ANBUMANI RAMADOSS: We have given the estimated amount. … (Interruptions)
MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B. C. KHANDURI : I agree that this is an estimated amount, but it has to be spent before 31st of March. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Maj. Gen. Khanduri, you please ask after 31st March what will happen.
… (Interruptions)
MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B. C. KHANDURI : Mr. Minister, you were talking about trauma centres. There was a Joint Committee of the Ministry of Surface Transport and the Ministry of Health, which went into it. A considerable amount of work has been done about the Golden Quadrilateral. In fact, if the elections etc., had not started by 6th of February, then by the middle of this year, we would have established a large number of trauma centres. In fact, there is an institution in Tamil Nadu whom we had contacted. You kindly ask the Ministry of Road Transport to give you all the details.
DR. ANBUMANI RAMADOSS: I thank you for the information.
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