Lok Sabha Debates
Regardking Killing Of Several Persons In Doda And Udhampur Districts On 1 St And 13 ... on 15 May, 2006
> Title : Regardking killing of several persons in Doda and Udhampur Districts on 1st and 13th May, 2006.
प्रो. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा (दक्षिण दिल्ली): अध्यक्ष महोदय, उधमपुर और डोडा में ३२ निर्दोष लोगों की हत्या हुई, जिसके विरोध में लोगों ने धरना दिया। धरना दे रहे लोगों पर ग्रेनेड फेंका गया जिससे अनेक लोग हताहत हुए। जब मुख्य मंत्री जी से शिकायत की गई, तो उन्होंने कहा कि धरना क्यों दिया गया?…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Prof. Malhotra, I had agreed to allow the matter to be raised at 12 noon. I will allow it at 12 noon.
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : Will the Adjournment Motion be taken up at 12 noon?
MR. SPEAKER: Notice for Adjournment Motion, as you know, has not been given in time. It cannot be taken up today. But at 12 noon I will allow the matter to be mentioned by the hon. Leader of the Opposition.
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : It is not just to be mentioned. I am talking of the Adjournment Motion. … (Interruptions) Now, the Question Hour be suspended and the Adjournment Motion be taken up.
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I am not minimising the importance of the issue. I have never minimised it. But sitting here I cannot openly ignore the rules. The rule says that the Adjournment Motion has to be given before 10 a.m. Otherwise, it will go to next day. That is the rule. There is no request for relaxation.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI (GANDHINANGAR): Sir, I do not know how it reached late. But I had sent it early. I would request you kindly to allow it today.
MR. SPEAKER: What is the response of the Government?
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do not consider that there is any case for taking up Adjournment Motion on this. This is, no doubt, a very unfortunate incident. But it is equally true that on earlier occasions also these types of massacres have taken place. Every massacre like this has to be condemned from different sides of the House. Most respectfully I would like to submit that this not a matter for taking up Adjournment Motion. … (Interruptions) Unfortunately, in this situation we can give reference to Chittisinghpura and attacks on the Amarnath yatris. I am not trading the numbers. But these are the incidents which have taken place which are condemnable. Everybody should condemn them.
SHRI HARIN PATHAK (AHMEDABAD): What about the Chief Minister’s statement?… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE : I am talking about the Adjournment Motion. … (Interruptions) I am talking about the Adjournment Motion. In this House, we have never admitted an Adjournment Motion on a comment of a Chief Minister outside the House. That can never be the subject of an Adjournment Motion.… (Interruptions) We are talking of the Adjournment Motion. Most respectfully… (Interruptions)
श्री हरिन पाठक : जम्मू-कश्मीर में लोग शांतिपूर्वक रैली निकाल रहे थे और उन पर ैंैनेड फेंका जाता है। जिस पर जम्मू-कश्मीर के मुख्यमंत्री का बयान अैंता है कि इन्होंने रैली क्यों निकाली? यह बताने के बावजूद कि हम रैली निकाल रहे हैं, वहां के मुख्यमंत्री का बयान अैंता है कि इन्होंने रैली क्यों निकाली? क्या लोकतांत्रिक देश में रैली नहीं निकाल सकते हैं? क्या आप लोगों को इस तरह से मरने देंगे? क्या इस तरह का जवाब वहां के मुख्यमंत्री को देना चाहिए?…( व्यवधान)
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: It is not a question of … (Interruptions) But, it cannot be a subject of an Adjournment Motion. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please. I will allow you.
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: My respectful submission is that there is no case for Adjournment Motion, and I do feel that we have no problem if the issue is debated. We have no problem if the issue is debated even today. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Just one minute.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Therefore, my most respectful submission is that if the hon. Members have concern to raise the issue, to express their views, to condemn the incident, I have no problem of accepting the discussion. Whatever time during the day you fix, it can be taken up for discussion.… (Interruptions) We are ready for discussion. This is my most respectful submission.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take it from me that I want a discussion to be held. I am not running away from it. It is my duty to give opportunities for important issues to be discussed, and I concede the right of the Opposition to raise this issue. Of course, it will be raised. I think, all problems can be solved, if we convert it to discussion under rule 193 and such discussions start at 12 noon. I do not mind it if we start the discussion at 12 noon.
… (Interruptions)
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : It is our right to have an Adjournment Motion.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am allowing you to be raised under rule 193.
ाी हरिन पाठक : हमारे घाव पर मरहम की बजाय नमक छिड़का जाता है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: I do not understand what do you want. I am allowing a discussion at 12 noon. Let it be started by him.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, I cannot.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: It is very difficult for me to admit Adjournment Motion. Rules have not been complied with. It is a matter to be discussed ordinarily.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is not fair. I am on my legs.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am on my legs.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Even if I admit it, it will be taken up at 4 p.m. I am giving you permission to take it up at 12 noon under rule 193.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): They do not want a discussion. They do not want Calling Attention on communal situation in Baroda… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I mean, I am going to allow it under rule 193 at 12 noon today.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Why at 12 noon? … (Interruptions)
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : We have given a notice.… (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI): They have submitted the Motion after 10 o’clock. How can we admit it? … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You raise those issues at 12 noon.
… (Interruptions)
11.07 ½ hrs. (At this stage Shri Srichand Kriplani and some other hon. Members came and stood on the floor near the Table) अध्यक्ष महोदय : कृपलानी जी, आप क्यों वैल में आ रहे हैं? आपको देखकर अन्य सदस्य भी आ जाएंगे।
…( व्यवधान)
11.08 hrs. The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Thirty Minutes past Eleven of the Clock.
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11.30 hrs. The Lok Sabha re-assembled at thirty minutes past Eleven of the Clock.
(Mr. Speaker in the Chair) प्रो. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा (दक्षिण दिल्ली) : अध्यक्ष जी, हमने आपसे रिक्वैस्ट की थी कि एडजर्नमेंट मोशन १२ बजे शुरू करें। यह बहुत ही सीरियस मामला है, गम्भीर मामला है, इसीलिए हमने आपसे रिक्वैस्ट की थी।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I have made a request earlier that in view of the several questions that have been raised including the important question of procedure and compliance with the rules, it could be taken up under the general discussion under rule 193. It seems that is not agreeable to the main Opposition Party. I had a discussion. Although there is no consensus on this – it should not be treated as a precedent – yet in view of the strong feelings that have been expressed, I am prepared to consider it as an Adjournment Motion.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA (PANSKURA): What will happen to our Calling Attention?… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Just a minute! Let me complete. This is also a habit. I would request you to please give it up interrupting the Speaker, ignoring the Speaker when he is standing. This is not adding to the glory of this institution. I wish you could realize the job, the agony of the Speaker these days.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Just a minute! Let me complete. If you have anything to say, you take my permission and say. Now, I am prepared to reconsider the matter. But, since objection has been taken, well, I want to find out whether the numbers are there. You have to rise in your seats in support of this Motion.
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : At 12 o’ clock.
MR. SPEAKER: Yes, it can be taken up at 12 o’ clock.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : Sir, I have a point. You are within your right to take a decision and we welcome, in whatever way possible you would like to run the House. It is because I believe that there is a definite attempt not to allow the House to run. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Q.422. Just a minute! Please do not dictate in every matter.
… (Interruptions)
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : Sir, what is he saying?… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: What he is saying has to be recorded only if I permit. Let me hear what he is saying.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please do not do that. Please do not interrupt in every matter.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : Sir, I would like to know when our Calling Attention on communal situation in Gujarat will be taken up.
MR. SPEAKER: I shall decide it. I will decide it later on. Now, it is a Question Hour. Mr. Dasgupta, please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI): Sir, I would like to take only one minute. We made our position clear in the morning, by the Leader of the House that we felt it very proper to discuss it under other Rule. However, since we stand by the observations of the Speaker always to cooperate with the Chair, we shall abide by your directions.
MR. SPEAKER: Thank you.
Q.422, Shrimati Neeta Pateriya.
(Q. No. 422) श्रीमती नीता पटैरिया : माननीय अध्यक्ष जी, माननीय मंत्री जी से हम जानना चाहते हैं कि इनकी जो परियोजनाएं थीं, इनको १९९६ के पहले कोई राशि पूर्ण करने के लिए क्यों नहीं दी गई, जिसके कारण से एक तो वित्तीय भार बढ़ा और परियोजनाएं पूर्ण होने में समय लगा? हमारे यहां जो बरगी परियोजना है, उसकी नहरें अभी तक नहीं बनी हैं, जिसके कारण उसका कोई लाभ आज तक किसानों को नहीं मिला है और जो कार्य चल रहे हैं, बहुत धीमी गति से चल रहे हैं और पैसा भी पर्याप्त नहीं दिया जा रहा है। हम <ºÉBÉEÉ BÉEÉ®hÉ +ÉÉ{ÉBÉEä àÉÉvªÉàÉ ºÉä àÉÉxÉxÉÉÒªÉ àÉÆjÉÉÒ VÉÉÒ ºÉä VÉÉxÉxÉÉ SÉÉciÉä cé?[i1] प्रो. सैफुद्दीन सोज : अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैडम पटैरिया जी ने जो प्रश्न उठाया है, उसके बारे में कुछ गलतफहमी है। आपके माध्यम से मैं यह कहना चाहता हूं कि इरीगेशन सब्जेक्ट पूरी तरह से राज्य से संबंधित है और इसमें केंद्र सरकार बहुत अर्से से सहायता देती रही है। पहले इसमें लोन मिलता था, अब ग्रांट मिलती है। इसलिए मैडम पटैरिया जी को यह प्रश्न साफ करना चाहिए कि क्या आप आईआईबीके के बारे में सवाल उठाना चाहती हैं या जो फास्ट ट्रैक है और जो कार्यवाही केंद्र सरकार में होती है, उसके बारे में सवाल उठाना चाहती हैं।
श्रीमती नीता पटैरिया : महोदय, मैं फास्ट ट्रैक के बारे में जानना चाहती हूं। यह बात प्रश्न में भी शामिल है।
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: You have asked whether about 150 Centrally-assisted ongoing irrigation projects are lying incomplete despite being in the priority list of the Union Government.
MR. SPEAKER: She has indeed mentioned about fast track projects.
प्रो. सैफुद्दीन सोज : महोदय, मैं अब फास्ट ट्रैक पर सीधे आता हूं। उससे पहले मैं आपको यह बता दूं कि आपने जो आंकड़े दिए हैं, वे ठीक नहीं हैं। आंकड़े यह हैं कि नार्मल कोर्स में जो आईआईबीके है, उसमें १५८ प्रोजेक्ट्स हैं, जिसमें से ३४ कंप्लीट हो गए हैं, ११ डैफर्ड हैं और ११३ ऑन-गोइंग हैं, जिनको आप इन्कप्लीट कहती हैं, वे ऑन-गोइंग हैं। फास्ट ट्रैक में ४२ प्रोजेक्ट्स हैं, जिसमें से १६ कंप्लीट हो गए हैं और २६ आन-गोइंग हैं।
MR. SPEAKER: You are asking the same thing which is mentioned in the reply.
श्रीमती नीता पटैरिया : महोदय, मैं यह जानना चाहती हूं कि ११३ परियोजनाओं के पूर्ण होने की अवधि कब तक है? बर्गीज परियोजना का काम चल रहा है, तीस साल इस बांध की परियोजना को बने हुए हो गया है, लेकिन अभी तक तीस साल में यह पूरा नहीं हुआ, नहरों का काम भी पूरी नहीं हुआ।किसानों को बांध से आज तक लाभ नहीं मिला। मैं जानना चाहती हूं कि किसानों को उससे कब तक लाभ मिलने लगेगा और कब तक यह परियोजना पूर्ण हो जाएगी?इसके साथ ही जो फास्ट ट्रैक की परियोजना बाकी बची हैं, इनके पूरा होने की अवधि कब तक है?
MR. SPEAKER: You answer only relating to fast track projects.
प्रो. सैफुद्दीन सोज : महोदय, इनके जहन में फास्ट ट्रैक है। जैसा कि मैंने बताया कि फास्ट ट्रैक में ४२ प्रोजेक्ट्स रहे हैं, जिसमें से १६ कंप्लीट हो गए हैं और २६ ऑन गोइंग हैं।ऑन गोइंग प्रोजेक्ट्स में जो डफिकल्टी है, वह स्टेट की डफिकल्टी है। जमीन लेनी है, पैसा ढूंढना है, यह स्टेट का काम है। क्योंकि सेंट्रल गवर्नमेंट ने फास्ट ट्रैक में …( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : यह क्या हो रहा है? Neetaji, this is not the way please.
प्रो. सैफुद्दीन सोज : मैं आपको फास्ट ट्रैक के बारे में पूरी तफसील बताऊंगा।सबसे पहले यह जानना जरूरी है कि यह जो डिले है, वह केंद्र सरकार की वजह से नहीं है, स्टेट को इसमें कुछ मुश्किलातें हैं, जमीन मिलनी है, लैंड एक्वायर करना है, पैसा ढूंढना है इसलिए यह डिले केंद्र सरकार की ओर से नहीं है। …( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: That is enough.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No. Nothing will be recorded.
(Interruptions) … * प्रो. सैफुद्दीन सोज : फास्ट ट्रैक में १२ प्रोजेक्ट्स हैं, जो कंप्लीट हो गए हैं, उनकी तफसील मेरे पास है। फिर वे प्रोजेक्ट्स है, जो ऑन-गोइंग प्रोजेक्ट्स ठीक समय पर है, उनकी संख्या १३ है। The number of projects likely to be delayed by one year is one, the number of projects likely to be delayed by two years is six, the number of projects likely to be delayed by three years is six. हर स्टेट का आंकड़ा देने के लिए मैं तैयार हूं।
* Not Recorded.
SHRIMATI MINATI SEN : Mr. Speaker, Sir, in reply to a matter raised by me under Rule 377 on 2nd August, 2005, I was informed by the Ministry that the idea of national project and inclusion of Teesta Barrage Project in the list of National Projects is yet to take shape. I would like to know from the hon. Minister, through you, the reasons for non-inclusion of Teesta Barrage Project in the list of National Projects.
MR. SPEAKER: Can you give an answer?
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Sir, Teesta is not under consideration and it is not related to this question. It was referred to the Planning Commission. So, I will get back to the hon. Member and see what can be done for Teesta project.
SHRI ADHIR CHOWDHURY : Sir, the question of Teesta Barrage project has been languishing over the years on account of financial constraints.
MR. SPEAKER: He has already answered it. Why are you asking it again?
SHRI ADHIR CHOWDHURY : Sir, it is known that Teesta Barrage project has been included in the list of mega projects. May I know from the hon. Minister whether any amount of money has been allocated, both in terms of loan and grant, to the State Government of West Bengal for the implementation of Teesta Phase I and Stage I and how much irrigation potential has been created by Teesta Barrage project Phase I and Stage I?
MR. SPEAKER: It does not come under this question.
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Sir, this question is related to the Planning Commission. I will take interest in that and get back to the hon. Member.
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Rajnarayn Budholia – not present.
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : अध्यक्ष महोदय, इसमें दो दर्जे की योजना शामिल की गई है जो सिंचाई से संबंधित है - एक फास्ट ट्रैक योजना है और दूसरी सामान्य योजना है। बिहार में ऐसी आठ योजनाएं हैं। माननीय मंत्री जी ने बताया कि इसमें राज्यों की भूमिका महत्वपूर्ण है। जमीन की व्यवस्था राज्य सरकार करती है, अनुदान केन्द्र सरकार से मिलता है। हम आपके माध्यम से माननीय मंत्री जी से जानना चाहते हैं कि बिहार की जिन आठ परियोजनाओं को शामिल किया गया है, उनमें फास्ट ट्रैक में कितनी हैं और अगर नहीं हैं तो इसका कारण क्या है? इसी के साथ पूछना चाहता हूं कि आपने जो परियोजनाएं शामिल की हैं, हमें जो जानकारी है, राज्य सरकार की तरफ से सारी प्रक्रिया पूरी कर ली गई है और केन्द्र से अनुदान देने में विलंब के कारण ये योजनाएं पूरी नहीं हो रही हैं। क्या आपने अभी तक राशि का आकलन किया है कि कितनी राशि देनी है? आप यह राशि कब तक उपलब्ध करवाएंगे ताकि राज्य सरकार इन योजनाओं को पूरा कर सके?
MR. SPEAKER: It is all right.
प्रो. सैफ़ुद्दीन सोज़ : बिहार को अभी तक ४८२ करोड़ रुपये लोन और ग्रांट में दिए गए हैं, लेकिन यह सही है कि फास्ट ट्रैक में बिहार शामिल नहीं है।…( व्यवधान)
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : अध्यक्ष महोदय, देख लीजिए, अन्याय हो रहा है।…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : ठीक है, वे बोल रहे हैं। He has said. ‘There is no project’.
प्रो. सैफ़ुद्दीन सोज़ : मैं अर्ज करता हूं कि बिहार का केस स्ट्रॉग हो सकता है लेकिन इसका दारोमदार बिहार की गवर्नमैंट पर है। फास्ट ट्रैक के लिए, प्रदेश सरकारों को अपने हक के लिए प्रस्ताव रखना है। फास्ट ट्रैक में बिहार शामिल नहीं है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : अध्यक्ष महोदय, हमारी बात सुन लीजिए।…( व्यवधान) हम व्यवस्था का प्रश्न उठा रहे हैं।…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप बैठ जाइए।
...( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: You have to sit down.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Take your seat. This is Question Hour. Unless I ask somebody, he is not allowed to ask the question.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Do not shout in the House.
… (Interruptions)
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Sir, shall I say something more on Bihar?… (Interruptions)
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : अध्यक्ष महोदय, मंत्री जी ने कहा है कि राज्यों को लड़ना पड़ता है।…( व्यवधान) हम जानना चाहते हैं कि लड़ने का मतलब कुश्ती होता है या क्या होता है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: I will not allow this indiscipline in the House.
… (Interruptions)
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : अध्यक्ष महोदय, मंत्री जी ने अपने उत्तर में कहा है कि राज्यों को लड़ना पड़ता है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Sorry, it is not permitted. Second supplementary is not allowed.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I will not allow this. I have called the name of Shri Hiten Barman to ask the supplementary.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: If you are not cooperating with me, I will go to the next question.
… (Interruptions)
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : हमसे ज्यादा आसन को कोई कोआपरेट नहीं करता।…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : हम सुनने के लिए तैयार हैं। आपने प्रश्न पूछा और उन्होंने जवाब दिया है।
...( व्यवधान)
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : जवाब नहीं दिया है।…( व्यवधान)
SHRI HITEN BARMAN : Sir, the Teesta Barrage project was started in 1976… (Interruptions)
श्री राम कृपाल यादव : अध्यक्ष महोदय, …( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: I can only say that it is a shameful conduct on the part of the hon. Members. Let the entire country see. I hope the entire country sees your known behaviour.
… (Interruptions)
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Sir, could I get back to Bihar for a minute?… (Interruptions) मैं बिहार के बारे में एक-दो मिनट और बताना चाहता हूं।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Not a single word will be taken down now. हाउस में मजाक हो गया है। रूल्स की कोई जरूरत नहीं है, सब फेंक दीजिए and you will dictate to the Chair.
(Interruptions) … * एक माननीय सदस्य : मंत्री जी को सब कुछ बोलने के लिए छूट है।…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : ऐसा है तो क्या आप कुछ रूल्स जानते हैं? रूल्स के मुताबिक काम कीजिए, यहां चिल्लाने से कुछ नहीं होगा।…( व्यवधान)
श्री राम कृपाल यादव : अध्यक्ष महोदय, पार्लियामैंट की …( व्यवधान) हम बिहार के जन प्रतनधि हैं। …( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Your observation contrary to the Chair’s direction is not being taken down. Do not shout. Please take your seat. If he wants to add anything, I can permit him. But, there should not be another question.
(Interruptions) …* MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will be taken down.
(Interruptions) … * अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप बैठ जाइये।
...( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप क्या बात कर रहे है ?
...( व्यवधान)
रेल मंत्री (श्री लालू प्रसाद) : आपकी सरकार प्रौजेक्ट पेश नहीं करती। …( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप सब लीडर्स क्या कर रहे है ? आपके मैम्बर्स खड़े होकर बोलते जा रहे हैं।
...( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Nobody bothers to have discipline in the House.
… (Interruptions)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप बैठ जाइये।
...( व्यवधान)
* Not Recorded.
श्री लाल मुनी चौबे : अध्यक्ष महोदय, मंत्री जी ने लड़ाई लड़ने के लिए कहा है, तो किस तरह की लड़ाई लड़नी पड़ेगी ? …( व्यवधान)
श्री लालू प्रसाद : बिहार सरकार फास्ट ट्रैक के लिए प्रस्ताव भेजे। …( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : लालू जी, आप इसे छोड़ दीजिए।
...( व्यवधान)
प्रो. सैफ़ुद्दीन सोज़ : महोदय, जहां तक एआईबीपी का ताल्लुक है, उसके अन्तर्गत बिहार को कई प्रौजेक्ट्स के लिए ग्रांट मिली है, लोन मिला है जैसे पश्चिमी कोसी, उपरीकिउल, दुर्गावती, बाणसागर, ओरनी रिजरवायर, बिलासी रिजरवायर और सोन माडर्नाइजेशन आदि कई प्रौजेक्ट्स हैं। मेरे पास आंकड़े हैं कि उन सबको ग्रांट मिली है, लोन मिला है। लेकिन जहां तक फास्ट ट्रैक का ताल्लुक है, तो हमारे मंत्रालय में बिहार से कोई प्रपोजल अंडर कंसीडरेशन नहीं है। मैंने यही अर्ज किया था। इसमें मैंने कोई गलत बात नहीं कही है।
SHRI HITEN BARMAN : Sir, Teestha Irrigation Project is the lifeline of north Bengal. It was started in 1976 but it has not yet been completed by the Government. I would like to know from the Minister, through you, what is the target date of completion of the Teestha Irrigation Project and how much fund has been released.
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप सब सुनिये कि हाउस में क्या हो रहा है ? एक ही प्रश्न क्या हर आदमी करेगा ?
...( व्यवधान)
प्रो. सैफ़ुद्दीन सोज़ : अध्यक्ष महोदय, तिस्ता इरीगेशन प्रौजेक्ट के बारे में कई मैम्बरान ने पूछा है। इस वक्त मैं तिस्ता इरीगेशन प्रौजैक्ट के बारे में बता नहीं सकता क्योंकि वह प्लानिग कमीशन के सामने है। मैं उसकी जानकारी हासिल करके सब मैम्बरान को बता दूंगा।
(Q. No. 423) SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : Sir, long-drawn agitation is going on throughout the country particularly in the concerning States. The persons who are evicted, and who have been displaced from their homeland have started agitation under the leadership of Medha Patkar. Also, Medha Patkar sat in an indefinite hunger strike. The hon. Minister reached the spot and met Medha Patkar as also other leaders of the country to persuade her to discontinue the indefinite hunger strike. I do not know whether any discussion was held by the hon. Minister with Medha Patkar regarding Sardar Sarovar Dam MR. SPEAKER: What is your question?
SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : My specific question to the hon. Minister is this. I would like to know whether the Government has implemented any scheme and programme for the rehabilitation of the persons who lost their jobs and for providing alternative land and other facilities to the persons who are evicted due to the height of the Sardar Sarovar Dam. I would like to know whether the Government has taken any steps; if not then why not?
Sir, part ‘b’ of my question is this.
MR. SPEAKER: No part ‘b’. You see, statements are given and circulated by the Ministers in some of these matters. I find that most of the Supplementaries are nothing but repetition of what information is already given in the statements. I find that this is precisely what is happening. If you have any relevant question, you put it; otherwise the answer is given.
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: In the 76th Emergency meeting of the Narmada Control Authority (NCA), the permission to raise the height of the Dam was granted up to 121.92 metres.
Alongside that, there was a necessity for a review of that decision. So, by the time the review was organized on the 15th of April, there was a tie. Out of the six members, three were on the one side and three were on the other side. Therefore, the whole question was referred to the hon. Prime Minister. But the very next day, the hon. Supreme Court met on this issue, where the Government of India took a position that on the question of rehabilitation – the hon. Member is concerned about the rehabilitation – the Prime Minister had done the duty by sending three Ministers to the Narmada Valley. The Report of those three Ministers is also a part of the proceedings in the hon. Supreme Court. Before the Supreme Court, our lawyer took the position that on the question of rehabilitation, raising the height of the dam is necessary because it has irrigation potential, it has hydro electric potential. Alongside this, the question of rehabilitation and resettlement of the oustees who have lost their homes, hearths and lands is also important. Therefore, a Committee was suggested, and on the 8th of May, the names of that Committee were placed before the hon. Prime Minister. That is called ‘Shunglu Committee’. That three-member Committee will go into the question of rehabilitation and resettlement very minutely.
SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : Sir, the hon. Supreme Court has made some observations in its judgment. I want to say that the Supreme Court is the supreme authority in this country. Parliament is there. So, I would like to know whether the Government would consider … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: The Supreme Court is the supreme judicial authority in the country.
SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : Parliament is supreme … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: As a legislative body.
SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : My specific question to the hon. Minister is, whether he would consider raising the height of the Sardar Sarovar Dam as per the observation of the Supreme Court or as per the demand made by the agitationists and welfare of the people of the country. Secondly, I would like to know whether the Government … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Sorry, there is no ‘secondly’.
SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : Sir, it is part (b) of my question. I would like to know whether the Government would agree to submit all the correspondence between the Narmada Control Authority and the concerned States before the Parliament.
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Sir, two or three questions have been clubbed together.
MR. SPEAKER: I am trying to control the Members.
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: Sir, as per the hon. Supreme Court’s earlier decisions of 2000 and 2005, there is no ambiguity anywhere. In fact, the Supreme court, in its judgments, wanted that the oustees must get better settlement than they were having earlier. It has to be a pari passu situation. It has to be a situation of settling them before you raise the height of the dam. So, this Ministry has tried to implement the decisions of the hon. Supreme Court. But now there is a new situation. The Supreme Court has accepted that the Committee headed by Shri Shunglu would go into the question within a period of three months on the question of rehabilitation and report back to the hon. Supreme court by the first week of July. That is what we are doing. The Shunglu Committee is operating independently. My Ministry will help this Committee to the best of its ability.
Then, the hon. Member, in his second supplementary, wanted that all the correspondence must be placed before this House. I accept the supremacy of the Parliament. If you so desire, I can place all the correspondence that have taken place between my Ministry and Gujarat Government, between my Ministry and Madhya Pradesh Government, between my Ministry and Maharashtra Government, and between my Ministry and Rajasthan Government. This House is supreme. If you so desire, I can place all these correspondence before this House.
SHRI SURAVARAM SUDHAKAR REDDY : Sir, part (f) of my Question is: “Will the Minister be pleased to state the progress made so far in the matter of rehabilitating the oustees already displaced therefrom?” The reply is regarding new oustees if the dam is raised. Our question was specific about the progress made on the question of rehabilitation of the oustees already displaced therefrom. The rehabilitated people are to be given a special concession as they are doing a lot of sacrifice and as they are being removed from their houses and from their lands. I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether the Government of India is having a second thought about the rehabilitation policy by giving liberal help in these big projects.
That is the main question of agitation throughout the country, particularly in the Narmada project.
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: If we go to the figures provided by Madhya Pradesh Government, up to the dam height of 110.64 metres, the number of villages affected is 104. The total number of PAFs, Project Affected Families, is 7186. The total number of PAFs settled so far in Gujarat is 2141, and in Madhya Pradesh it is 5225. The total number of PAFs resettled is 7186. That means, everybody has been settled. Then there are figures when you raise the dam’s height to nearly 122 metres.
But my point is that when the Ministers went there, we found grey areas in the resettlement and rehabilitation of Madhya Pradesh. But we are a democracy. There are so many institutions. When there was a tie in the Review Committee, according to rules and according to the decision of the Supreme Court, the matter had to be referred to the hon. Prime Minister. The next day the Supreme Court was meeting. Therefore, in a broader sense, this question is before the hon. Supreme Court and a mechanism has already been devised through this Committee to go into the question of rehabilitation and resettlement. So, this is in a nutshell the situation.
SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY : I would like to know from the Minister whether it is a fact that the Government of Madhya Pradesh has failed to resettle the oustees and as a result, the entire controversy arose. If that is so, what action the Government of India is taking to see that Madhya Pradesh Government in fact honours the relief and resettlement process of the oustees?
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ: As far as resettlement and rehabilitation in Maharashtra and Gujarat are concerned, there are no complaints. But as far as Madhya Pradesh is concerned, I must take this hon. House into confidence and say that there are grey areas in the resettlement and rehabilitation process. Therefore, the Shunglu Committee will go into this question with reference to Madhya Pradesh only because there are grey areas, because there has been criticism, because there has been Andolan. This Committee is there. The hon. Supreme Court is going into this question. The hon. Prime Minister has gone deeper into this question. Therefore, as far as Madhya Pradesh is concerned, this Committee will go and constitute 40 teams from Sample Survey Organisation and they will go into it. There will be 40 teams which shall help the Shunglu Committee in that. They will go and talk to the oustees and within a matter of three months, there will be some document before this hon. House. Before that, first of all, we will go to the Supreme Court. Then we will take all the information that will be available. By 30th June, we shall be clear on the question of rehabilitation and resettlement in Madhya Pradesh.
SHRI P.S. GADHAVI : I would like to know this specifically from the hon. Minister. Has the Government got any information about those Narmada Bachao Andolan activists? वे लोग वहां जो अधिकारी रिहैब्लिटेशन का काम करने के लिए जाते हैं, उन्हें आने नहीं देते। इस बारे में वहां बोर्ड भी लगा रखा है कि वे एंटर नहीं कर सकते। इससे सरकार को रिहैब्लिटेशन की स्थिति के बारे में सही मायनो में जो जानकारी मिलनी चाहिए, वह नहीं मिल पाती है। इसके कारण NBA is only interested to stall the progress of construction of dam. They are not interested in the rehabilitation. Is it a fact? Has the Government got any information about this?
प्रो. सैफ़ुद्दीन सोज़ : आंदोलन के बारे में यह माननीय सदस्य की जाती राय है। हम एक जम्हूरी मुल्क हैं। जब कहीं कोई आंदोलन होता है, उनकी बात सुननी पड़ती है, बल्कि हम जम्हूरियत हैं इसलिए तमीज के साथ सुनना पड़ता है। मैं यह नहीं कह सकता कि आंदोलन करने वाले काम नहीं करने देते हैं। मेरे साथ दो मंत्री श्रीमती मीरा कुमार और पृथ्वीराज डी. चव्हाण जी भी थे। हम लोगों ने १५,००० लोगों के नुमाइंदों के साथ बातचीत की। उसकी वीडियो फिल्म भी है, जिससे जाहिर होता है कि उन्होंने ठीक से और तमीज से अपनी बात रखी। हमने आंदोलन वालों से वहां बात नहीं की, बल्कि यहां जब वे भूख हड़ताल पर बैठे हुए थे, तब हम वहां गए थे। यह एक अलग बात है। लेकिन आंदोलन वाले रिलीफ का काम नहीं करने देते हैं, इस बात का जहां तक सवाल है तो उसके लिए इंतजार कीजिए। वहां कमेटी यह सब देखकर आएगी और हमारे सामने अपनी रिपोर्ट रखेगी।
(Q.No. 424) MR. SPEAKER: I shall allow a discussion under Rule 193 on this.
Question Hour is over.
… (Interruptions)
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