Lok Sabha Debates
Shri Madan Lal Khurana Called The Attention Regarding Situation Arising Out Of ... on 24 November, 2000
Title: Shri Madan Lal Khurana called the attention regarding situation arising out of closing down of various small and Cottage Industries due to non-revision in breakdown of law and order and steps taken by the Government in this regard.
१२. ०९ hrs. MR. SPEAKER: Now, the House will take up the Calling Attention.
… (Interruptions)
श्री मदन लाल खुराना (दिल्ली सदर) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं शहरी विकास और गरीबी उपशमन मंत्री का ध्यान अविलम्बनीय लोक महत्व के निम्न विषय की ओर दिलाता हूं और प्रार्थना करता हूं कि वह इस सम्बन्ध में वक्तव्य दें " दिल्ली के मास्टर प्लान में संशोधन न करने के कारण वभिन्न लघु और कुटीर उद्योगों के बंद होने से उत्पन्न स्थिति के परिणामस्वरूप कानून और व्यवस्था के ठप्प होने तथा इस सम्बन्ध में सरकार द्वारा उठाए गए कदम"
… (Interruptions)
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN (CHIRAYINKIL): Sir, I have given notice for Adjournment Motion regarding the coconut growers… (Interruptions) MR.SPEAKER: I have not received any notice for your Adjournment Motion.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Anyway, the officers of the Secretariat are ascertaining the position. Give some time to ascertain the position. … (Interruptions)
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Sir, please hear me… (Interruptions) I cannot just sit down like this… (Interruptions) MR.SPEAKER: You cannot raise it now.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS (PALGHAT): Sir, it is a very serious matter.
MR. SPEAKER: The Calling Attention is an half-an-hour business.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: It is already listed in today’s List of Business. Please understand that.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI RASHID ALVI (AMROHA): Sir, the `Zero Hour’ is taken up immediately after the Question Hour… (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: We would take up the `Zero Hour’ after completing this Calling Attention.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI RASHID ALVI : Sir, it is a convention that `Zero Hour’ is taken up immediately after the Question Hour… (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Today is the last day of the week. I have received 44 notices for `Zero Hour’ today. We would finish the list of notices that we have received. SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Sir, what about my notice for Adjournment Motion?… (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Sir, I have already answered your question. I have not received any notice for Adjournment Motion. … (Interruptions)
SHRI N.N. KRISHNADAS : Sir, it is a very urgent matter… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: The Calling Attention is also an urgent motion. We would take up the `Zero Hour’ immediately after that. … (Interruptions)
SHRI RASHID ALVI : Sir, the Zero Hour is taken up immediately after the Question Hour… (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: The Zero Hour would be taken up after the Calling Attention is over. Please do not waste his time now. … (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA (GUNA): Sir, the Zero Hour is taken up immediately after the Question Hour… (Interruptions) There are many important issues … (Interruptions) MR SPEAKER: The Calling Attention is already listed in the List of Business today. This is also an important issue. … (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : Sir, the Calling Attention can be taken up after the Zero Hour… (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: The Calling Attention is only for half an hour and after that we would take up the Zero Hour. It is because we have also called the concerned Minister for this purpose… (Interruptions) SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, first you can allow half an hour for the Zero Hour and then you could take up the Calling Attention … (Interruptions) SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : It was not decided in BAC… (Interruptions) It could be taken up on Monday also… (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: We have called the hon. Minister concerned for this. It has to be taken up today only. THE MINISTER OF URBAN DEVELOPMENT AND POVERTY ALLEVIATION (SHRI JAG MOHAN): Mr. Speaker, Sir, on 14th November, 2000, the Supreme Court issued the following orders:
"In the first instance, we, therefore, issue notice to the Chief Secretary, Delhi and also to the Commissioner, MCD to show cause why they should not be punished for contempt for the continued inaction on the part of the NCT, Delhi and for the non-compliance of the various orders passed by this Court starting from 1996 and including the orders dated 8th September, 1999, 30th August, 2000 and 12th September, 2000 regarding the closing of the polluting units situated in the residential areas."
Thereafter, the officials of the Government of National Capital Territory of Delhi and Municipal Corporation started sealing polluting as well as other industries in residential areas. This led to unrest involving roadblocks leading to traffic jams, burning of buses etc. 12.16 hours (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair) To facilitate understanding of the present position, it is necessary to recount the developments that have taken place from 2nd February, 1996, that is, the date from which the Court started passing orders regarding closure/relocation of industries from the residential areas. The order of 2nd February, 1996 reads:
"Learned counsel agree that a high power Committee be constituted which can examine as to which type of industries can be permitted in residential areas. We, therefore, direct the Chief Secretary, NCT, Delhi to constitute a Committee consisting of one Member each from NCT, Delhi, Central Pollution Control Board, Delhi Pollution Control Committee, Municipal Corporation of Delhi and Delhi Electric Supply Undertaking (DESU). The Chairman of the Committee shall be representative of NCT, Delhi Administration. The Committee shall be constituted by the Chief Secretary, NCT, Delhi Administration within two weeks of the receipt of this order by the Chief Secretary. "
On 4th October, 1996, the Court noted that the then Principal Secretary to the Government of National Capital Territory of Delhi had filed an affidavit intimating the progress of the High Powered Committee set up by the Court. It was stated that out of 45,000 applications received, after deleting duplicate applications, 43,045 applications were scrutinised. Of these, 39,166 applications did not qualify for grant of necessary permission under the Master Plan. The remaining 3,879 units/applications were inspected by a Committee constituted of MCD, Department of Industries, Delhi Electric Supply Undertaking and Delhi Pollution Control Committee. This Committee found only 376 units to qualify to qualify for grant of permission to run the units in the residential area.
On 18th December, 1996, the then Principal Secretary to Government of National Capital Territory of Delhi assured the Court through an affidavit filed on 18th December, 1996, that possession of 1300 acres of land would be taken by the NCT and forms for allotments were being supplied to the industries. In its order of 18th December, 1996, the Court observed:
"We reiterate that we are satisfied that the NCT, Delhi Administration is seriously processing the project of relocating the industries operating in residential/non-conforming areas of Delhi. We are further satisfied that the industries are also cooperating. … It has taken quite some time for the Delhi Administration to realise the importance of the matter and to get into the grip of the matter. The Government having now taken up the matter seriously it is time for this Court to step aside as at present and leave the field for the Government to act on its own and relocate the industries in accordance with the plan formulated by this Court. … The NCT, Delhi Administration shall file progress reports in this Court every three months."
Subsequently, however, since no progress was noted by the Court, it had started making adverse comments on non-compliance of its orders.
The present situation has arisen due to failure of the Government of National Capital Territory of Delhi to develop plots for relocation of industries in Bawana and other such areas. In this connection, it needs to be underlined that the Supreme Court started passing orders from 2nd February, 1996 and up till 9th December, 1999, no one talked of amending the Master Plan.
Government are aware of the problems that are being faced by the industries functioning in the residential areas as well as of the house-owners and occupiers who are using their property for residential purposes in the residential areas. Government are keen to find a solution which would be just and fair to all concerned. Government have agreed, in principle, subject to observance of safeguards in respect of pollution norms, to redefine household industries in terms of the recommendations made by a Committee known as the Jagdish Sagar Committee. These norms pertain to the number of persons who can work in household industries, the power that can be sanctioned and the area that can be used etc.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rashid Alvi, please take your seat. Let him make his statement.
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MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except the statement by the hon. Minister.
(Interruptions)* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not disturb. Let him answer.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Dr. Raghuvansh Prasad Singh, please take your seat. You will have the opportunity to ask clarifications.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rashid Alvi, please resume your seat. Do not interrupt like this.
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MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing is going on record.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rashid Alvi, there is a limit. Please take your seat.
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MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Madan Lal Khurana, you also resume your seat.
… (Interruptions)
__________________________________________________________________ *Not Recorded.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rashid Alvi, what is this? It is a Calling Attention. You just cannot stand up and say anything. Take your seat now.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI JAG MOHAN: Sir, Government would also amend the Master Plan, if necessary, to acquire more lands for relocation of industries in industrial areas.
Government would also request the Supreme Court to give a little more time for relocation. The matter, at present, rests with the Supreme Court.
I would also invite attention of this august House to a larger question: in what type of Delhi do we want to live, and what type of legacy do we wish to bequeath to posterity and to our children and grand children? Do we want our city to become a junk-yard of unauthorised constructions, mirroring civic and moral chaos, or an orderly and disciplined capital of a Resurgent Republic, embodying values of justice and honesty on the basis of which we have often claimed a pre-eminent position for our culture and civilisation.
Presently, in our cities, the pollution levels are increasing and health costs escalating. About 40,000 premature deaths, 17 million respiratory hospital admissions and 1.2 billion restricted activity days are occurring annually due to polluted air. Three cities – Delhi, Mumbai and Calcutta -- account for 44 per cent of these deaths. New and more virulent forms of diseases are appearing. The present unhealthy conditions are estimated to cause an annual loss of 30.5 million ‘Disability Adjusted Life Years’ which is equivalent to Rs. 36,600 crore.
Delhi has already earned the dubious distinction of having become the third worst polluted city in the world. Fifty million gallons per day of industrial waste is going into the Yamuna and what is seen flowing in it today is nothing but sewer and industrial waste. In Okhla alone, for instance, during March-April, 2000, the biochemical oxygen demand level in the river was about 70 milligram per litre as against a standard of 3 milligram per litre, that is, 25 times more than the permissible level.
If the present attitudes and practices persist, Delhi would run the risk of having as many as 30 million people in the next few years and becoming an ugly, unhealthy, unworkable and unliveable city. In the process, a fatal blow would also be dealt to the development of the National Capital Region, which comprises a substantial part of three important neighbouring States of Haryana, Rajasthan and Uttar Pradesh.
In the context of these stark realities, should we rest our outlook on short-termism? Our thinkers always had an expansive view of time and space. We may be well advised not to reduce everything to the immediate, see things in their entirety and project our vision into the future.
Thank you. … (Interruptions)
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Sir, I have given a notice. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Varkala Radhakrishnan, you were a Speaker in the Kerala Assembly. You know what a Calling Attention is.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : I am a Member of the Lok Sabha; I am not the Speaker. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You should know the procedure. Please do not disturb now. I have called Shri Madan Lal Khurana.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : I have given a notice to raise an important matter. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Calling Attention has already been taken up. Please do not interrupt now.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : I was told by the hon. Speaker that I could raise it in the ‘Zero Hour’. I may be permitted to speak about the difficulties of the coconut growers. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Will you resume your seat now?
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Calling Attention has already been taken up and the hon. Minister has answered. Hon. Members have to seek clarifications. Why are you interrupting the proceedings now?
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You can raise it during ‘Zero Hour’.
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MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Radhakrishnan, you are interrupting the proceedings.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I want it to go on record that Shri Radhakrishnan is interrupting the proceedings of the House.
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, यही वक्तव्य राज्य सभा में दिया गया।… ( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : कृपया बैठिए। अब कालिंग एटेंशन मोशन ले लिया है।
…( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please go back to your seats.
… (Interruptions)
१२.२८ बजे ( इस समय श्री तूफानी सरोज तथा कुछ अन्य माननीय सदस्य आए सभा पटल के निकट फर्श पर खड़े हो गए।) …( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: We have already taken up Calling Attention.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav, please help me in conducting the House.
… (Interruptions)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : मुलायम सिंह जी, ये आपकी पार्टी के लोग हैं। इनको आप बुलाइए। इस प्रकार से इनको हाउस के वैल में नहीं आना चाहिए।
...( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Is this the way? I am not the only one to get angry. Anybody sitting here will get angry. This is too much.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI MOHAN S. DELKAR (DADRA AND NAGAR HAVELI): Sir, is the procedure changed? There should be ‘Zero Hour’ first. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: But this is decided by the BAC.
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, दो दिन पहले इसी तरह का वक्तव्य राज्य सभा में दिया गया था। दिल्ली के लोग काफी उत्तेजित थे। …( व्यवधान) कल मैं केन्द्र सरकार के कुछ प्रमुख मुखिया लोगों से मिला था। मैं आशा करता था कि कोई बीच का रास्ता निकालने के लिए आज वक्तव्य आयेगा लेकिन आज यह वक्तव्य आपने पुन: रिपीट किया है। आज के अखबार में छपा है कि दिल्ली में ३८ हजार और औद्योगिक इकाइयों को सील करने की तैयारी और भारी संख्या में अर्द्ध सैनिक बल बुलाये गये। यह दो वक्तव्य कल जब अखबारों के अंदर आयेंगे तो उसके बाद दिल्ली को संभालना बहुत मुश्किल हो जायेगा इसलिए मेरा यह कहना है कि आज जो दिल्ली की …( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rashid Alvi, this is not the way. You are a senior Member of the House. Is this the way to behave in the House? By sitting there, you are passing running commentary. I am trying to finish off this item as early as possible so that the ‘Zero Hour’ could be taken up.
… (Interruptions)
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : मैं आपके माध्यम से मंत्री जी से निवेदन करूंगा कि आप दिल्ली की जनता को कोई ऐसो मैसेज न दें जिससे दिल्ली की जनता यह महसूस करे कि हमको तो तबाही की चरफ ले जाया जा रहा है। इसलिए मेरा कहना है कि आप कोई रास्ता निकालें।
दूसरा, आपने अपने वक्तव्य में एक चीज बहुत स्पष्ट कही कि सुप्रीम कोर्ट का आदेश यह था कि केवल पौल्यूटेड इंडस्ट्रीज को ही सील करना है और किसी पर कार्यवाही नहीं करनी। १९९६ से लेकर अभी कुछ दिनों पहले तक जब दिल्ली सरकार ने या किसी ने भी कोई एक्शन नहीं लिया तब सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने यह आदेश दिया कि दिल्ली के चीफ सैक्रेट्री और कार्पोरेशन कमिश्नर को कंटेम्प्ट ऑफ कोर्ट के अंदर क्यों न सजा दी जाये। उस अफरा-तफरी के अंदर दिल्ली के चीफ सैक्रेट्री की तरफ से एक बयान अखबारों में छपा कि दिल्ली में जितने भी लघु उद्योग हैं, १ लाख २६ हजार, उन सबको सील कर दिया जाये। यह कैसे-कैसे सील किये गये, इसका मैं उदाहरण देना चाहता हूं। मेरे संसदीय क्षेत्र दिल्ली सदर के अंदर पुरानी सब्जीमंडी है। वहां लोग कच्ची मूंगफली लाते हैं और उसको भूनकर रेहड़ी लगाते हैं। उनको भी नोटिस आ गया कि क्यों न आपके ऊपर जुर्माना किया जाये, यह आदेश हुआ। …( व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अल्वी : गरीब आदमी तो जगमोहन साहब को पसंद नहीं है। …( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप क्लेरीफिकेशन पूछिये।
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : मैं यह जानना चाहता हूं कि क्या आप दिल्ली के चीफ सैक्रेट्री और उन आफिसरों के खिलाफ कोई इंक्वायरी करेंगे जिन्होंने इस तरह के आदेश बिना अपने पोलटिकल हैड से कुछ कहे दिये या वह किसके आदेश से हुए । दिल्ली में जो कुछ हुआ, क्या आप उसकी जांच करायेंगे ?…( व्यवधान) अभी आपने कहा कि दिल्ली को कूड़ा घर, स्लम या गंदा शहर बनाने के लिए जिम्मेदार कौन है। मैं यह जानना चाहता हूं कि इमर्जेंसी के दौरान जब दिल्ली के सभी झुग्गी झोपड़ी बस्तियों को पुनर्वास कलोनियों में ले जाया गया।
जनता पार्टी के राज में जून १९७७ तक की अनऔथोराइज़्ड कालोनियों को नियमित कर दिया गया। १९८० से १९९० तक दिल्ली में किसका शासन था? दिल्ली में किसने सारी गंदगी डाली?
…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप सवाल पूछिए।
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : यह इतना बड़ा मसला है। मुझे बहुत मुश्किल से मौका मिला है।…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : मौका सबको है। इसे आधे घंटे में खत्म करना है।
श्री कमलनाथ (छिन्दवाड़ा) : आप इसमें कोई सीमा नहीं लगा सकते। यह ऐसा मुद्दा है। आपको मुद्दा भी समझना है।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : कॉलिंग अटैन्शन का आधा घंटा टाइम फिक्स किया हुआ है।
श्री कमलनाथ : कॉलिंग अटैन्शन आप भी बीस साल से देख रहे हैं और मैं भी बीस साल से देख रहा हूं।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : इसमें दस मिनट इनको और बाकी सदस्यों को पांच-पांच मिनट मिलेंगे।
श्री कमलनाथ : क्यों, इसमें कोई डिस्क्रिमिनेशन होता है?
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : कमलनाथ जी, आपका ही बनाया हुआ नियम है।
श्री कमलनाथ : आप भी जानते हैं कि यह कैसे होता है।
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : मास्टर प्लान की आवश्यकता क्यों पड़ी। दिल्ली में तीन मुख्य समस्याएं थीं - एक, दिल्ली में लगभग एक हजार से ऊपर अनऔथोराइज़्ड कालोनियां बस गई थीं, दूसरा, जब लोगों को रिहायशी क्षेत्रों में रोजगार नहीं मिला तो उन्होंने दुकानें खोल लीं और तीसरा, इंडस्ट्री की प्रोबल्म। जब दिल्ली में बी.जे.पी. का शासन आया तो मुख्य मंत्री के नाते मैंने यह ऐफीडैविट दिया, दिल्ली के लोगों को विश्वास दिलाया कि हम दिल्ली के मास्टर प्लान में परिवर्तन करेंगे। यह मैंने अपनी ओर से नहीं कहा, यह दिल्ली में बी.जे.पी. के मैनीफैस्टो में था कि अगर दिल्ली में बी.जे.पी. का शासन आया तो हम इसके मास्टर प्लान को चेंज करेंगे। इसलिए आज जो दिल्ली के मास्टर प्लान को चेज करने के लिए कह रहे हैं , वह अपनी तरफ से नहीं कह रहे हैं।…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : अब समाप्त कीजिए।
श्री अशोक प्रधान (खुर्जा) : मान्यवर, यह बहुत महत्वपूर्ण मसला है, इन्हे बोलने दिया जाए।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : लेकिन बोलने का भी समय है। समय का पाबंद होना चाहिए।
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : जो आंकड़े दिए गए, क्या आज से दस, पन्द्रह साल पहले नहीं थे? क्या दिल्ली आज ही गन्दी हो रही है? मेरा कहना है कि जैसा मुझे विश्वास दिलाया गया, मैं फिर निवेदन करूंगा कि दिल्ली की पौल्यूटेड इंडस्ट्रीज को शिफ्ट किया जाए, इसमें कोई दो राय नहीं है लेकिन जिस इंडस्ट्री में पांच-दस लोग काम कर रहे हैं, जिसमें पौल्यूशन पर कोई असर नहीं पड़ता, ऐसी इंडस्ट्रीज में पन्द्रह लाख लोग काम करते हैं, दिल्ली की पूरी इकोनौमी पर उसका असर है, इसलिए उनको हटाना और धमकी देना कि हम अर्ध-सैनिक बल लाएंगे, फिर से हटाएंगे, यह ठीक नहीं है। मैं मास्टर प्लान की बात इसलिए कह रहा हूं क्योंकि यह बी.जे.पी. के मैनीफैस्टो में था, मैंने ऐफिडैविट दिया हुआ है, साहिब सिंह जी ने ऐफिडैविट दिया हुआ है। इसलिए मास्टर प्लान में परिवर्तन करके बीच का कोई रास्ता निकाला जाए। यदि यह आज नहीं होगा तो मेरे सामने और कोई रास्ता नहीं होगा सिवाए इसके कि मैं दिल्ली की जनता के इस आन्दोलन को लीड करूं और सबसे आगे आऊं।…( व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अल्वी : ये गरीबों के दुश्मन हैं, गरीबों को मारने का काम कर रहे हैं।…( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rashid Alvi, I have to name you. You are fomenting trouble in the House. You are getting up every time.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rashid Alvi, you are not expected to say anything and everything. There is a limit. There is a rule to be followed in this House.
डॉ. मदन प्रसाद जायसवाल (बेतिया) : जूनियर मैम्बर को सीनियर बना देते हैं इसलिए सब गड़बड़ होती है।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : अब आप क्या कर रहे हैं।
डॉ. मदन प्रसाद जायसवाल : हमारा तो तीसरा टर्म है।
श्री रामजीलाल सुमन (फिरोजाबाद) : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने इसी १४ तारीख को अपने आदेश की अवमानना करने के संबंध में राष्ट्रीय राजधानी क्षेत्र को दंडित करने के लिए कहा। यह समस्या कोई नई नहीं है, बहुत लम्बे अरसे से है। इस पर जो विवादास्पद बयान बराबर आ रहे हैं, जगमोहन जी तो मास्टर प्लान में कोई संशोधन करने को तैयार नहीं हैं। लेकिन मदन लाल खुराना जी की आज प्रैस कांफ्रेंस छपी है कि वे प्रधान मंत्री और गृह मंत्री से मिले हैं और दोनों मास्टर प्लान में संशोधन के लिए तैयार हैं। यह एक नई कंट्रोवर्सी सरकार ने पैदा कर दी है। मदन लाल खुराना जी सरकारी पार्टी में भी रहेंगे और आन्दोलन भी करेंगे, यह बड़ी आलीशान पार्टी है। बेहतर यह होता कि प्रधान मंत्री जी यहां खुद रहते और सरकार का जो विवादास्पद रवैया है, उस पर सफाई के साथ अपनी बात कहते। भारतीय जनता पार्टी ने इस मामले को और उलझाने का काम किया है, यह मेरा आरोप है।
यह बहुत ही महत्वपूर्ण सवाल है, क्योंकि स्वास्थ्य और जिंदगी, दोनों एक दूसरे के पूरक हो सकते हैं। एक तरफ तो प्रदूषण का सवाल है और दूसरी तरफ जिन्दगी , दिल्ली में जो लोग हैं, उनमें बाहर से पूर्वी उत्तर प्रदेश और बिहार के तमाम लोग हैं, जो गरीब लोग हैं और रोजी-रोटी की तलाश में आये थे, लेकिन काम नहीं मिला तो छोटा-मोटा काम करना शुरू कर दिया। ये लोग बड़े अमीर लोग नहीं हैं। २७ तारीख को ये पीड़ित लोग संसद के सामने प्रदर्शन करने वाले हैं और २८ तारीख को सुप्रीम कोर्ट के सामने प्रदर्शन करने वाले हैं। एक लाख २६ हजार जो इकाइयां हैं, उनसे खाली २० लाख लोगों के प्रभावित होने का ही सवाल नहीं है। दिल्ली के लघु उद्योगों के साथ अलीगढ़, खुर्जा, मुरादाबाद, अहमदाबाद और जामनगर का भी रिश्ता है। अलीगढ़ का जो ढलाई का सामान है, उसकी यहां प्रोसेसिंग होती है, उसका प्रसंस्करण होता है। खुर्जे के चीनी के सामान का रिश्ता इससे है, मुरादाबाद का मैंथोल ऑयल, अहमदाबाद से चीनी के बरतन बनाने के लिए क्ले और जामनगर से ब्रास और कॉपर के पाट्र्स का रिश्ता इससे है। कुल मिलाकर इन उद्योगों के बन्द होने से करोड़ों लोग प्रभावित हो रहे हैं, इसलिए यह मसला सिर्फ दिल्ली का नहीं है।
एक रिपोर्ट यह भी छपी है कि ९८ प्रतिशत उद्योग कोई प्रदूषण पैदा नहीं करते। अभी जगमोहन जी ने दिल्ली की सरकार के लिए कहा, दिल्ली भी कोई प्रदेश है? दिल्ली का मुख्यमंत्री तो एक सिपाही को नहीं हटा सकता। दिल्ली की सरकार के पास तो एक इंच भी जमीन नहीं है, जमीन तो डी.डी.ए. को देनी है। इसके लिए चार हजार से १५ हजार एकड़ जमीन की आवश्यकता होगी। जमीन के कागजात दिल्ली के पास नहीं हैं। मैं सरकार से कहना चाहूंगा कि जरा इसके बारे में जानकारी कर लें। आन्ध्रा प्रदेश और कर्नाटक की सरकारों ने भी मास्टर प्लान में संशोधन किये हैं। आखिर कोई रास्ता निकल सकता हो तो निकालना चाहिए। लेकिन बगैर कोई वैकल्पिक व्यवस्था किये हुए लाखों-करोड़ों लोगों की जिंदगी से खिलवाड़ करने का आपको कोई अधिकार नहीं है। बेहतर यह होता कि सरकार पहले वैकल्पिक व्यवस्था करती। मेरा आरोप है कि इस सरकार ने कोई वैकल्पिक व्यवस्था नहीं की। इसमें जिन लोगों की रोजी-रोटी का सवाल है, इससे केवल २० लाख नहीं, करोड़ों लोग इससे प्रभावित होने वाले हैं और उन लोगों की जिंदगी से खिलवाड़ करने का काम यह सरकार कर रही है। यह सरकार इस सवाल पर बिल्कुल गम्भीर नहीं है। अगर सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने इनको नहीं धमकाया होता तो आज भी ये चार कदम चलने को तैयार नहीं थे। दिल्ली में कानून और व्यवस्था की स्थिति खराब हो गई, जिसमें तीन लोग मारे गये। जिसके पेट पर आप लात मार रहे हैं, वह किसी भी सीमा तक जा सकता है। मैं सरकार से दो सवाल करना चाहता हूं। एक तो भारत सरकार का जो विवादास्पद रवैया है, जगमोहन जी का बयान एक, मदन लाला खुराना जी का जलवा दूसरा कि आडवाणी जी और प्रधान मंत्री जी ने कह दिया है कि वे मास्टर प्लान में परिवर्तन करने को तैयार हैं। सरकार यह बताये कि जो तालाबन्दी आप कर रहे हैं, उद्योगों को बन्द कर रहे हैं तो क्या आप वैकल्पिक व्यवस्था कर रहे हैं? जब तक वैकल्पिक व्यवस्था नहीं करेंगे, किसी भी कीमत पर इसे बर्दाश्त नहीं किया जायेगा और हम पूरी ताकत के साथ इसका विरोध करेंगे।
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You may go through today’s List of Business. I am calling the names of only those Members who have given notices to speak.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : A serious situation has arisen. I should be given a chance to speak about the position of coconut growers. I have given a notice also to move an Adjournment Motion.… (Interruptions) I would like to speak on the position of coconut growers… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Your Adjournment Motion has not been received by the Secretariat.
SHRI VARKALA RADHAKRISHNAN : Sir, I have given a notice.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: It has not been received.
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, Delhi has been witnessing for the last several days a sight which has seldom been seen before. I do not want to get into politics. I do not want to get into what happened after 1996 or who was responsible and who was not.
Sir, I want to start with the statement which the Minister has made. He asked, "What kind of Delhi would you like to live in?" Sir, I do not stand for hazardous industries and polluting industries. The Minister also mentioned that in a few years we will have 30 million people in Delhi. He asked, "What kind of Delhi do you want in the future?" Sir, the Delhi I want and I think that every one in this House wants is a Delhi which sees the reality and sees the pressures of population, and the pressures of Development. Shri Jag Mohan was the Lieutenant Governor of Delhi. He was heading the DDA. He understands Delhi. When he was the Vice Chairman of DDA, he set up NOIDA and Trans-Yamuna colonies. What was the necessity for it? It was because at that time Shri Jag Mohan saw the stark realities of the future. Today, the situation in Delhi has entirely changed. Several years ago, the UNDP report talked of migration from rural centres to urban centres. The pressure of population and pressure of development had become so profound that they dictate a new look and new direction to urban planning.
We have talked of industries closing down. Sir, I think this is being confused. I am going to the extent of saying that even the facts which are being put to the court are sometimes not being presented correctly. There are two issues, namely, conforming areas and non-conforming areas and polluting industries and non-polluting industries. A dry-cleaning shop or a bakery cannot be a polluting unit. Are they not the need of the society? But that is non-conforming so that is illegal. It is because the Master Plan says that it is non-conforming. So, let us not confuse between conforming, non-conforming, polluting and non-polluting units.
What is pollution? I do not think I need to learn from Shri Jag Mohan what pollution is. Sir, water coming out of your bathroom is the cause of pollution under Water Act. Shri Jag Mohan, it depends on the receiving body. If the same water which is coming out from your bathroom, goes to a pond, it is pollution but if it goes to sewage, it is not pollution. So, let us not also misunderstand what pollution is. Pollution from a factory on the outskirts of Delhi which adds to the pollution load of Delhi is pollution. But the same factory situated 50 miles away does not pollute the ambient air. So, on the basis of this misunderstanding let us not head towards the wrong direction.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Let us hear the questions from you now.
SHRI KAMAL NATH : Sir, I am just trying to make them understand. Sir, this issue first came up when I was the Minister of Environment. If you look at the records, there was no Delhi Pollution Control Board at that time. The Supreme Court had asked what are these units. I had said that there are petrol pumps, etc. Is not petrol pump polluting? There were bakeries, chakies, dry cleaning shops, etc. I had said that it is not possible to close these units. They may be non-conforming. The Master Plan was made 20 years ago when Delhi was different, when the country was different and at that time Shri Jag Mohan himself was very different. At that time, there were certain perceptions.
I would like to bring to the notice of Shri Jag Mohan that the question is of carrying capacity. It depends on the carrying capacity of the area about which we are talking. Carrying capacity of two floors where 50 people are living is urban pressure. But two floors with five people living is not urban pressure.
So, we need to look at the carrying capacity of that area. If 70 per cent of that area is industrial, but non-conforming, we say throw out industries and make it residential. One has to be practical on this issue. Today the situation dictates, the development of the last 20 years dictates, and the population increase in the last 20 years dictates us to be practical. Shri Jagmohan himself says that thirty million is going to be the population of Delhi. If thirty million is going to be the population of Delhi shortly, what was the population of Delhi when we made this Master-plan 20 years ago? What will we do with this Master-plan now? This Master-plan is now fit for the garbage. We need to review this Master-plan which will be in vogue till 2001.
The Master-plan is not a static concept. Master-plans world over are a dynamic concept. We should be able to face this stark reality. I looked at what Shri Jagmohan said in his statement - that is, stark realities. This is what exactly I am also saying. I am repeating what he has stated. It is in pursuance of this stark reality that I stand here. I urge him to please not look at industries alone. Some of these industries serve the populace. They serve the economy of Delhi. If there are going to be no industry, what will happen to the economy of Delhi? Take the example of all the major capitals of the world. Take the latest capital. When Berlin was made the capital of Germany after the reunification of the two Germanys, what did they do? Did they throw out all the industries?
I would only like to urge Shri Jagmohan in conclusion to please look at the reality. The Master-plan is to be reviewed in 2001. How far are we away from 2001? Let us set into motion the review process. Let there be a Parliamentary Committee or a Select Committee. There are Members from Delhi in this House, there are Members from the National Capital Region in this House. All of them should be involved in this process.
It is not that just that Shri Jagmohan wants a Delhi of tomorrow. We all want a Delhi of tomorrow. We all are going to spend much of our time in and around Delhi. I am not looking at just a change in the Master-plan to accommodate some industries which are closing down. I am looking at a radical change in the Master-plan. Is he going to set into motion a Committee or a body of experts to start reviewing this Master-plan? I do not want a Delhi which lives in terror - whether it is the industry or housing. I do not want to read in the newspapers that Delhi is being run by bulldozers. I do not want to live in a Delhi where people are in terror where somebody says that this is illegal, this is non-conforming or this is polluting. That is not the Delhi any one of us wants to live in.
I would like to ask him a specific question. What steps is he going to take to review the Master-plan which expires in the year 2001? Until that time, would he stop what he has embarked upon? He has embarked upon spreading this feeling of uncertainty and terror in Delhi.
SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHI (VISAKHAPATNAM): I do not want to delve upon what the earlier speakers have already said. I come from a place called Vizag which is also polluted. I was involved in making a Master-plan for that city when I was the Chairman of the Urban Development Authority there for quite a long time.
Master-plan is not a very hard and fast rule. It should be modified from time to time to suit our needs. It has to be reviewed periodically by making necessary amendments to it to suit the present needs. When the pollution part comes, you must deal with it with a human face. The present situation in a country like ours is such that you cannot throw out overnight tiny industries and small industries. What will be their livelihood? How will they live? So, you must have a human face.
Then you must segregate what is polluting and what is not polluting. A blanket throwing out of industries would result in the type of agitation that we have seen in Delhi. It is a very sad incident. It should not have occurred. It is a black mark in the history, I should say.
The other thing is that pollution is not coming from the industrial units alone. What about the automobile industry? How many twenty-year old cars are running on the roads of Delhi?… (Interruptions)
SHRI KAMAL NATH : What about the Badarpur Thermal Power Station? … (Interruptions)
SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHI : Yes, there are big Thermal Power Stations which are there. I now come to my point. How many old cars, including the cars of many hon. Members, are presently running on the roads of Delhi? Are they conforming to the Euro-II standard at least if not the Euro-III standard? Then, why do you not stop those cars from running? The most polluting industry in Delhi today is the automobile industry, I mean, the cars and not these industries. What action have you taken? So, I urge upon the hon. Minister to take these things into consideration. Therefore, I urge upon the hon. Minister to take steps to stop old cars from running which are polluting Delhi.
There is air pollution. Some industries in general and the automobile industry in particular create smokes. Smokes are only creating air pollution. Of course, there is water pollution which is a different thing. But to stop the air pollution, which these industries are creating as also the water pollution, Mr. Minister, you must have a segregation. A time-bound programme should be taken up. Now, the small and tiny industries are suffering very much.
India is a very poor country. Today, if you want to close down these industries, lakhs of people would suffer. All these chemical industries have been dumped into India by the developed countries. If you want to stop pollution, these chemical industries have to be closed down first. Are you taking those steps? You are not taking those steps. India became a dumping-yard for the chemical industry today. It is the most polluting industry. It is not that the our developed industries cannot make bulk drugs. India can make it. But we are prone to these things. Our country is a poor country. The Government should have a human face and deal with the situation amicably so that our small and tiny industries do not suffer. These non-polluting small and tiny industries can be accommodated in the Master Plan. There is no blanket Master Plan for ever to be implemented.
I, therefore, urge upon the hon. Minister to take these facts into consideration and amend it accordingly to suit the needs. I would request him to come back to this House with that Master Plan so that we can all approve it.
With this, I conclude. Thank you very much.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (RAIGANJ): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I have a lot of respect for the Urban Development Minister Shri Jag Mohan for his courage, conviction and, sometimes, for the work which he does, without caring about the party line though I differ with his approach and other things. He is caring for the good of the country. But I am very much shocked to hear that before the Supreme Court could pass a judgement, Shri Jag Mohan, possibly under the compulsion of the party, passed a judgement in his reply saying that the present situation has arisen due to the failure of the Government of National Capital Territory of Delhi to develop plots for relocation of industries in Bawana and such other areas. I do not say that by saying so he is meaning our party Government here. I am taking into consideration the entire Delhi Government. Is it a reality? Is it the truth? Delhi is our Capital. The image of Delhi is the image of India to the international community, to a great extent. I do not like to talk in terms of party line on this very serious issue which concerns all of us who stay in Delhi, especially the Delhi-ites. The hon. Minister has found a reason that the present situation is due to the failure of the Government. I do not have to take much of the time of this House in narrating all the court orders. Is it only the Delhi Government which is responsible for this? Is it not the DDA, the MCD which are responsible? Is it not due to the judgement of the Supreme Court that the nodal agency, the Urban Development Ministry is doing this? Mr. Minister, I agree with you as far as the last part of the reply about your dream for Delhi. I fully share the concern with you. We want that type of a Delhi. On such matters, do not go by political compulsions. Please rise above everything. If Khuranaji feels that he can solve the problem at one stroke, we should all be happy. If Shri Vajpayee could remove you, put Shri Khurana in the chair and give him the power, we should all be happy. It is not our problem. It is your problem. Not only in his own power but also let Shri Khurana get some other power to demolish the Government of Shrimati Sheila Dixit. Let him get some more power. I do not mind it. But, Mr. Minister, can you solve the problem in that direction? The first question is this. Do you have the land readily available in your possession? The answer is ‘no’.
13.00 hrs. The second question is this. Do you have an answer to relocate all these industries which are polluted within one or two or three months? The answer is `no’. What have you to do? I agree that the axe of the Supreme Court is on our head. I do not like to question the judgement. Sometimes courts pass judgements which help us; sometimes they dictate as to how the legislator should behave and move. I think that the time has come where we should also apply our mind as to in which direction we shall act in implementing our policies.
Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, for the last four days, what is going on in the media is whether Shri Madan Lal Khurana was responsible in 1996 or whether Shrimati Sheila Dikshit is responsible in 2000. This is not the answer. I represent a constituency where villages are there. I know the load of Delhi. More than six thousand people of my constituency are working in Delhi. When the hon. Minister says that it would be more after a few years and that the pressure on Delhi would be too much, I agree with the hon. Minister.
Yes, I support the changes to be made in the Master Plan. Changing the Master Plan can be a slogan to convince the people who are victimised now. What kind of a Master Plan would you like to bring? The borders of Delhi are limited. Uttar Pradesh gave us Noida which has helped us to try to get rid of some suffocation. Would Haryana give us Sonepat or Gurgaon? There, the people are still suffocated. Where do we go? Therefore, I appeal, through the hon. Deputy-Speaker, to Shri Madan Lal Khurana and especially our hon. Minister that on this point, let us not play politics. What is the power left to the Government of Delhi? Shri Khurana was the Chief Minister of Delhi. Did he enjoy the power of the Chief Minister the way Shri Jyoti Basu, the Chief Minister of West Bengal, enjoyed under the Constitution? The answer is `no’. The Constitutional power of Delhi Government is such that even if a Chief Minister keeps awake in the night, he does not know that the Lt. Governor got a diktat from the North Block. Be it a Congress Government or be it a B.J.P. Government, that is the administrative and Constitutional structure of the Delhi Government. Therefore, I appeal that at least on this one issue let this Parliament, cutting across party lines, not score points as to whether Shri Madan Lal Khurana has failed or Shrimati Sheila Dikshit has failed. The reality is this. To implement the court order in such a short span with lack of land, is difficult.
13.02 hours (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) Sir, I conclude by saying only one thing. If my father is suffocating with in asthma or some serious kind of cough and if my doctor says that my father’s coughing is too much, or is poisonous to my son… … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: It seems you are not seeking any clarification, you are just making a speech.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Does it mean I would kill my father? I should treat my father in a different room and also create space for my child.
The situation of Delhi is like that. We have got to plan for both. When the bulldozers go and demolish, Shri Jag Mohan, I know that you carry with you your conviction to make a clean Delhi. After all what for we have Parliament? It is for the people. After all, we cry for whom? We cry for the people who elect us. Yes, he might have done something a little irregular, he might have placed these industries somewhere but they are earning. We have got to tell them: Look, we want to change this place providing this order to you. The bulldozer can bulldoze but people look up to Parliament as to how we look to them.
I have four questions only. Firstly, Shri Jag Mohan, we take an attitude free from partisan lines, involving the DDA, the MCD, Delhi Government to comprehensively approach the issue for the changes in the Master Plan, even involving the Delhi MPs, MLAs as to in what manner we can address the issue for the future.
Secondly, will you please for the time being till we do not get the land, try to further plead before the Supreme Court, to give us some more time till we relocate them in the appropriate place, not to keep the order for demolition or for relocating the industries in force? The authority for licensing and delicensing is the MCD. I do not want to say that because it was done by BJP that is why we are doing it. I do not say that the DDA is under it, that is why you are doing it. I would have said that. But I took a decision that this issue cannot be addressed on the political lines to score points. It is a different issue.
Thirdly, I appeal to you that you, on your own, evaluate the industrial units which are suffering from pollution, whether they could get anti-pollution devices while they are being relocated. With the help of banks or financial institutions they can get this equipment. I know this because I represented once one of the polluted industrial cities called Howrah.
When the anti-pollution measures were implemented, they had no money to buy the anti-pollution equipment and instal them. Finally, I would like to know whether the hon. Minister will look at this issue without having any political angle and call a meeting involving the Government of Delhi, the Members representing Delhi both in Parliament and Assembly and the representatives of the associations for a joint operation in future where each one should be a partner without involving politics.
श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : अध्यक्ष जी, दिल्ली पर दो दिन की बहस करा लीजिए। स्थिति की गंभीरता को आप आज महसूस नहीं कर रहे हैं। आज जौनपुर, गाजीपुर आदि में रास्ते रुके हुए हैं। गरीब मुसलमानों को पकड़ कर मारा जाता है, गिरफ्तार किया जाता है। आप स्थिति की गंभीरता को नहीं समझ रहे हैं। इसलिए दिल्ली पर दो-तीन दिन की बहस करा लीजिए। जौनपुर-गाजीपुर तक तनाव व्याप्त है। लोगों की ६ लाशों का पता नहीं चल रहा है, घर लूटे जा रहे हैं और आप कह रहे हैं कि महत्व का सवाल नहीं है। यह बहुत महत्व का सवाल है।
अध्यक्ष महोदय : मनिस्टर साहब रिप्लाई दे रहे हैं। जीरो-आवर मनिस्टर साहब की रिप्लाई के बाद लेंगे।
SHRI JAG MOHAN: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I must thank all the distinguished Members who have raised various questions and sought clarifications. I think they are very much needed, because I personally feel that we must be very clear about the facts first. We must be clear about the fundamentals first. What are the facts? The Master Plan has not been prepared now. This is not 30 or 40 years old. This is the second Master Plan notified in 1990. So, let us be clear about this fact first.
Secondly, how was this Master Plan formulated? It was formulated after inviting all public objections. It was formulated under the statute. It was formulated after taking into account what the former Environment Minister had prescribed under the environment law. These were all placed before Parliament. The DDA Act had been passed by Parliament. The second Master Plan itself had been approved by it in 1990. All agencies concerned had participated in that and approvals had been sought by everybody.
So, what I am trying to say is, so far as this case is concerned, these are the orders of the Supreme Court. I do not want to make any comments about it. But, let us be very clear about the facts. What is the Master Plan and what is the procedure? In my statement, I have already indicated that we are prepared to be very fair and just to all the parties concerned, the industrialists, the residents and also the general public. What do the general public say? You just look at the Opinion Poll conducted by The Times of India and The Hindustan Times. The result says that 87 per cent of the people who have entered the poll support what is being done now. Then, you look at the petitions filed by the residents in the Supreme Court. They say that they are being suffocated to death and they plead that these illegal industries should be removed. They are not legal industries. They are all illegal industries. Even then I have indicated that wherever there are hardships involved … (Interruptions)
श्री राशिद अलवी : आप जो फोन की बात कर रहे हैं तो फोन गरीब लोग नहीं करते हैं, जामा-मस्जिद के लोग फोन नहीं करते हैं। आप गरीब लोगों की बात कीजिए।
MR. SPEAKER: This is not the proper way. When the Minister is replying, making a running commentary is not good. If you are not satisfied with the Minister’s reply, you can say it later, not now.
श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल (कानपुर) : संविधान में कितनी बार संशोधन किया गया है?
SHRI JAG MOHAN: I am coming to that point also.
MR. SPEAKER: You must have some patience to listen to the Minister. Whenever the Minsiters speak, there is a running commentary from this side. This is not correct.
SHRI JAG MOHAN: Sir, there are also other difficulties involved. I have given the facts and figures. I said that if the present trends and practices continue and if we do not take a firm and fair stand, then not only Delhi would be ruined, but also the National Capital Region about which Shri Ramji Lal Suman has spoken here.
The National Capital Region is a part of India. It is a national commitment. There is a commitment of this very Parliament that we will develop it. How are you going to develop the National Capital Region – Rajasthan, Uttar Pradesh and Haryana - if everything is allowed to come to Delhi and every illegality is regularised? Is National Capital Region not a part of India? It is in the interest of the National Capital Region. What I have stated in my statement is that if the present attitudes continue, if the present trends continue, if the present practices continue, then, not only will Delhi be ruined but the National Capital Region will also be ruined and the process of development will also be affected.
Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav has been speaking there. It is the progress of Uttar Pradesh that is involved. I have gone to all those States. I have found 8,000 industrial plots lying vacant in Rajasthan – developed for the people of Delhi in accordance with the concept of the Master Plan, in accordance with the assurances given by this Parliament that the National Capital Region will be developed. The National Capital Region Board was made. An Act was passed. Now, we are forgetting all this in the heat of the moment. Prudence requires that we should not forget in the heat of the moment what are the fundamentals of the issues involved and what are the actual facts.
The second point that I would like to say is this. Where have I stated that I will not amend the Master Plan? I have laid down principles that the Master Plan can be amended and would be amended provided it is in the interest of planning, provided it does not subvert the very purpose of the Act, provided it does not support the very soul of the Environment Act. Are we going to amend it in a manner which will ruin the Master Plan, which will ruin the environmental law, which should be against the statutes, and which will be against the rulings given by the Supreme Court? What has the Supreme Court said? The Supreme Court has said that their orders have consistently been disobeyed since 1996 and this has been done primarily to force them to agree to, in situ, regularisation. It is not my issue. It is the Supreme Court which has been considering this case.
I entirely agree with Shri Dasmunsi when he said that it is not a political issue. I am not apportioning the blame to ‘x’, ‘y’ or ‘z’. What I am saying is, let us recognise the facts as they stand today and also keep in view the observations that have been made by the Supreme Court. I am not saying about anyone. For two years, they have been giving assurances. They have not developed a single plot. It is only on 14th September, 2000 that the Supreme Court, having got exasperated by the local authorities, said: "We appoint the Ministry of Urban Development to be the nodal agency and to secure implementation of the Master Plan."
In the next hearing, we went to the Supreme Court and said, "If they are not listening to you, would they listen to me?" So, the first thing I did was to go to Narela and other areas was there. Six thousand plots have been allotted to the water-polluting industries and to the other polluting industries. I had also submitted for giving more time to the industrialists. In the Supreme Court, we had filed an affidavit pleading give them time so that all the polluting industries can go there and resettle. It was mentioned. Why I am saying that the polluting industries should go to Narela is because I have gone there. I have been with the Department of Industry and there is an arrangement. When the industries go there, their effluents will be treated and these will become non-polluting industries so far as their impact on the human beings is concerned because there will be technical devices. One industry cannot afford that device. But a group of industries will be able to afford that.
I have given you the figures of the industrial waste. Let us not cheat mathematics. This is what I am saying. All this thing is being looked into. Plots have also been allotted in the other areas. Narela has been with GNCT since 1989.
Shri Kamal Nath, I think, is a young man. He has better memory than I have. But he should not forget, in 1982, what was the condition during the Asiad? What was the condition during the NAM? What was the condition during the CHOGM? Delhi was a bright city. Now, the question is that if you plan properly, if you implement your plans effectively, if you be fair and just to everybody, then only, the issues can be solved and not otherwise. … (Interruptions) Let me explain it. What I am saying is that the Master Plan can be amended if there is a public interest involved in it, if it serves the cause of justice, fairplay and equity. It is not like this. What is being asked for? I am giving three concessions.
The total number of demands is four. Seventy-five per cent is being conceded to. What is that I am not agreeing to is that if you have set up an industry in a residential area, which is polluting, then it would not be. The issue is that you have a residence, you live in New Friends Colony and if I go and set up an industry by your side, the suggestion is that you regularise, make that area as an industrial area, and the wrong-doers should be rewarded and the person who is living in that area should be asked to move out. … (Interruptions)
SHRI KAMAL NATH : That is not the suggestion. You have either misconstrued or you have misunderstood it. I have asked you: "What is a bakery, what is a petrol pump, and what is a dry-cleaning place?" … (Interruptions)
SHRI JAG MOHAN: I am not raising this issue. What I am saying is whether the interest of justice lies in this fact that you should be asked to move out because I have now decided to declare it as an `industrial area"". That is the only fundamental issue involved in it.
Sir, you look at the petition. It is not only the industrialists but also the residents who have gone to the Supreme Court. I will read it out to you if you like and if you have got time what the residents of Vishwas Nagar have said. I do not want to waste the time of the House. There is a petition with me coming up on the 28th. It was filed by the residents of those very colonies. It says: "How is it that the illegality is being condoned and the legal persons are being punished?" I have with me a petition addressed to the Human Rights Commission by one Shri Rajinder Singh, who said: "My wife has died because of pollution". He had said in his petition that a gentleman had set up an illegal industry beneath his house and because of the fumes, his wife suffered from asthma and she died. Therefore, the issue is not this. Now, if you go to any school in Delhi, one out of every fourth or fifth child is getting inhaler with him and having respiratory diseases. But I have said: "Be patient. All those industries which are running in the residential areas have to fulfil the Jagdish Sagar Committee""s recommendations." This is what the local Members of Parliament met me and said. This is what they want and this is what has been agreed to.
As has been suggested, I am prepared to meet anybody, I am prepared to speak to anybody, and if there is any justice anywhere, I will look into it. … (Interruptions)
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : मेरा कहना यह है कि मीटिंग कब बुलाने जा रहे हैं? जो एश्योरेंस दिया गया था कि दिल्ली गवर्नमेंट के चीफ मनिस्टर, इंडस्ट्रीज के जो बड़े-बड़े लोग हैं, दिल्ली के सभी एम.पीज़ हैं, उन्हें मीटिंग में बुलायेंगे जिसमें यह डिसकस करेंगे कि मास्टर प्लान के लिये कौन सा बीच का रास्ता निकल सकता है, मंत्री जी इसके बारे में बतायें कि क्या हुआ?
श्री विजय गोयल (चांदनी चौक) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, जब मंत्री जी ने यह कहा कि सुप्रीम कोर्ट की नहीं सुन रहे हैं तो मेरी क्या सुनेंगे? मेरा यही कहना है कि जो लोग जिम्मेदार थे और जिनके कारण ये सारी इंडस्ट्रीज़ बस गई, उन ब्यूरोक्रेट्स के खिलाफ कोई भी कार्यवाही की हो, तो मंत्री जी बता दें.। मैं लगातार कंसल्टेटिव कमेटी की मिटिंग्स में कहता रहा हूं। अफसर लोगों को यह सूट करता है कि ये सब इल्लीगल रूप से बसें। मैं फिर यही कहूंगा कि जब आप एक्शन लें तो इन अफसरों के खिलाफ जरूर लें जिनके कारण ये सब उद्योग बसे हैं।…( व्यवधान)
श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : अध्यक्ष महोदय, यह सब क्या हो रहा है? यह क्या तरीका है कि ये लोग एक तरफ सत्ता चलायेंगे और दूसरी तरफ विपक्ष की राजनीति करेगें। यह क्या षडयंत्र हो रहा है?
श्री विजय गोयल : क्या जनता के हित की बात नहीं करें?
श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : हम कहेंगे लेकिन जवाब खुराना जी देंगे। यह जनता की बात है या पोलटिकल बात हो रही है?…( व्यवधान)
श्री विजय गोयल : हम जनता की बात कर रहे हैं, कोई पालटिकल बात नहीं कर रहे हैं।
श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : यह पूरी तरह पालटिकल है। यही मारेंगे, यही रोयेंगे, हम लोग चुपचाप बैठे रहेंगे, यह क्या बात हुई?
MR. SPEAKER: Let the Minister complete his reply.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Vijay Goel, what is this?
… (Interruptions)
श्री विजय गोयल : अध्यक्ष जी, जो इसके लिये जिम्मेदार हैं, उनके खिलाफ कार्यवाही करें।
श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : अध्यक्ष महोदय, हम बोलेंगे...
MR. SPEAKER: This will not go on record. Nothing will go on record except the Minister""s reply.
(Interruptions)* SHRI JAG MOHAN: What I was submitting is this. … (Interruptions) Let me make it very clear … (Interruptions) Please allow me to complete. All your __________________________________________________________________ *Not Recorded.
points will be answered. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Madan Lal Khurana, please.
SHRI JAG MOHAN: So far as the issue of action against officials is concerned, I can assure you, action is already on and a number of cases have been referred to the CBI. Shri Vijay Goel knows some of them. The rest I will make a note. The other point is that Shri Madan Lal Khurana has suggested two things. One is about this inquiry. Whether I will hold the inquiry about the lapses that have resulted to that, I am very much prepared to do so. Whether the Supreme Court order was implemented in letter and spirit, whosoever bungled, well, it will come to light. The second point is whether I am prepared to meet anybody, I am prepared to meet any of them. I am prepared to meet all our friends and we will consider. I would call a meeting. There is no question of that.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, he is ready to call a meeting.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This will not go on record. What is this?
(Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER: What is this?
… (Interruptions)
SHRI JAG MOHAN: What I am suggesting is, I am prepared. I have an open mind. I have not said that I will not meet anyone. I am prepared to meet anyone. I have only indicated… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Madan Lal Khurana, please take your seat. Nobody is following the rules here. I am not giving permission. Please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am not giving permission. You please take your seat.
__________________________________________________________________ *Not Recorded.
SHRI JAG MOHAN: I will call any meeting. I will accept any suggestion for consideration but what I am saying is, let us be very clear about facts and fundamentals. The second point which I must make it very clear to this House is this. I am not the final authority to amend the DDA Act or the Master Plan. The Master Plan is amended after the Cabinet approves a particular principle. Then, a notification is issued inviting public objection. After public objection is invited, then the matter is considered again by the Government and notification is issued.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Jag Mohan, is there any objection to have a meeting?
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.
(Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER: Do you have any objection to have a meeting with the MPs?
… (Interruptions)
SHRI JAG MOHAN: No, Sir.
MR. SPEAKER: He has agreed to call a meeting. Please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record except the Minister’s reply.
(Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER: I am not allowing anybody except the Minister please.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am not allowing anybody please.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.
(Interruptions) *
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Not Recorded.
श्री जगमोहन : कोई गरीब पर हमला नहीं कर रहा है। जो उनका सत्यानाश करने वाले थे, करके चले गए। …( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : राशिद अल्वी जी, आप हाउस को बार-बार डिस्टर्ब कर रहे हैं। यह ठीक नहीं है।
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This will not go on record.
(Interruptions) … (Not recorded) SHRI JAG MOHAN: I would only remind… (Interruptions)
13.24 hours (At this stage, Dr. Raghuvansh Prasad Singh, Shri Rashid Alvi, Shri Hannan Mollah and some other hon. Members left the House.) SHRI JAG MOHAN: Sir, much has been said.
MR. SPEAKER: Unnecessarily, the Treasury Benches are also provoking the other side. You must also keep this in mind. You are also provoking them.
SHRI JAG MOHAN: Are they saying about poor? What I am saying is who is the sufferer of this or the scorer of this thing which has happened.
Just imagine what happened in Lal Kuan in l999. Fifty persons died because there was an industrial unit above the house.
13.25 hours (At this stage, Shri Basu Deb Acharia and some other hon. Members left the House.) Fifty persons died! Who were the people who died? I am talking of the poor, not of the rich. Who were the persons who died? Delhi has the highest incidents because of the proximity of the industries. In l999 50 people died. They were burnt to death because there was a unit behind and also because there was a unit beneath .
My friend was talking of Calcutta. Delhi today has 15,000 fire incidents, which number is more than that for Calcutta, Mumbai and Chennai put together and 300 persons die every year because of fire incidents. Who are the people that die? It is the poor.
So, what I am saying is that all the polluted industries have to go, all hazardous industries have to go. So far as the other industries are concerned, I have already conceded in my statement that in terms of the Jagdish Sagar Committee which was the main demand earlier, we have agreed to re-consider that and re-define them, so far as the schedule is concerned. I have said it in my statement also. I have also said that if need be we will acquire more land to re-settle them.
श्री विजय गोयल : अध्यक्ष महोदय, दिल्ली में ३८ हजार औद्योगिक यूनिटें दिल्ली सरकार ने सील कर दी हैं। उन्हें खोलने के बारे में मंत्री महोदय कुछ नहीं बता रहे हैं।…( व्यवधान)
श्री जगमोहन : १५ सितम्बर के आर्डर में उस बारे में कोई जिक्र नहीं है। दिल्ली सरकार खुद सील कर रही है। मेरे पास ऐसा कोर्ट का कोई निर्देश नहीं है। कोर्ट ने साफ कहा है कि वह इनका काम है और हमने इनसे रिक्वेस्ट की है।…( व्यवधान)
SHRI KAMAL NATH : That is not correct. I am not talking of it. (Interruptions) I am talking of the letter from the Chief Minister about the amendment of the Master Plan.
SHRI JAG MOHAN : Show me the letter which the Chief Minister of Delhi has written to me for amendment of the Master Plan.
SHRI KAMAL NATH : You have said here that till December 9, l999 no one talked of amending the Master Plan.
श्री जगमोहन : आपने कहा कि मास्टर प्लान का चेंज नहीं है। मैं पूछना चाहता हूं उसमें मास्टर प्लान की बात कहां कही गई है। कृपया मुझे दिखाएं।… ( व्यवधान) What I am saying is, the Chief Minister has not even talked of it up to the 9th of December. (Interruptions)
That is what I am saying. Why should I write to her?
श्री श्याम बिहारी मिश्र (बिल्हौर) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, दिल्ली की ३८ हजार यूनिटों को सील कर दिया गया है पहले उनको खुलवाइए।…( व्यवधान)
श्री विजय गोयल : अध्यक्ष महोदय, दिल्ली में इंडस्टि्रयल यूनिटों को सील कर दिया गया है। उन्हें खुलवाया जाए।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Vijay Goel, when the hon. Minister is giving the reply, why are you intervening? Please take your seat.
SHRI JAG MOHAN: I will just sum up by reiterating what I have said in the concluding paragraph of my written statement. Let us not be guided by `short-termism’. Let us take a broader view and a larger view in the interests of Delhi, in the interests of the society, in the interests of the NCR, in the interests of the country as a whole and the type of values which we want to cherish, whether we want to encourage urban indiscipline or we want to encourage a culture of discipline, civic respect for law, both for environment as well as for this.
Whatever commitments we have made at the international fora we have also to agree to this. No one is going to be penalised. Our job is to find a constructive and creative solution of the formidable problem that has been put in our lap.
So, this is what I am saying. Let us see what the Supreme Court says on the 28th because the case is coming on the 28th. After the Supreme Court’s ruling I am prepared to sit with all of you, any one of you and we will find out a solution. I will call a meeting. I will give that assurance.
श्री चन्द्र शेखर (बलिया,उ.प्र.) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं इस विवाद में नहीं पड़ना चाहता, लेकिन जिस भाषा का यहां पर प्रयोग किया गया है, मैं आपसे निवेदन करूंगा कि …...(Expunged as ordered by the Chair) यदि ये सब बातें इस सदन में होती रहेंगी, तो हम लोग बहस कैसे चलाएंगे? अखबार वाले लिखते हैं कि जगमोहन ऐसा है, मैं कहना चाहता हूं क जगमोहन से हमको कुछ लेना-देना नहीं है, लेकिन जगमोहन एक कर्तव्य-पालन कर रहे हैं। खुराना साहब इसी से प्रसन्न हो जाएंगे कि जगमोहन मीटिंग बुला रहे हैं। हमारे मित्र कमलनाथ एक भाषण इंटरनैशनल फोरम में कर के आते हैं और दूसरा भाषण पार्लियामेंट में करते है। बैठ जाइए। पहले हमारी बात सुन लीजिए।
क्योंकि वहां से आने वालों को खुश करना है। कितने लोग गांव से आकर दिल्ली में बसेंगे ? १० हजार लोग रोज दिल्ली में आ रहे हैं। अगर इस हिसाब से सारे देश के लोग आ जायेंगे तो फिर क्या होगा? जगमोहन जी ने जो कहा, कैपिटल रीजन किसलिए बनाया है ? यह जगमोहन जी ने नहीं बनाया था बल्कि स्वर्गीय श्रीमती इंदिरा गांधी जी ने बनाया था। उस समय मैं भी था। उस समय इसके मंतव्य जाहिर किये गये थे। आज हमारे खुराना साहब कहते हैं कि हमारे एजेंडे, मारे मैनिफेस्टो में था। यह पार्लियामैंट आपके मैनिफेस्टो से नहीं गाइड होता है। हम लोग गाइड नहीं होते हैं और न आपका एन.डी.ए. भी गाइड होता है। …( व्यवधान) जो भी हो लेकिन उस तरफ जो लोग सरकार में बैठे हैं, वे भी आपके मेनिफेस्टो को नहीं मानते हैं। इसलिए उस मेनिफेस्टो का बार-बार यहां पर जिक्र मत कीजिए। हम उस मेनिफेस्टो को कूड़े में फेंक देना चाहते हैं। …( व्यवधान)
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : क्या आप यह कहेंगे कि दिल्ली के मास्टर प्लान को चेंज करने वाले एजेंडे को आप कूड़े में फेंक देंगे।
श्री चन्द्रशेखर : जी हां।…( व्यवधान)
श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : हम तो आग लगा देंगे। …( व्यवधान)
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : आप तो आग लगाने वाले ही हैं। आपने तो सारे देश में आग लगा रखी है। …( व्यवधान) आपका तो काम ही आग लगाना है। …( व्यवधान)
श्री चन्द्रशेखर : मैं कह रहा हूं कि जगमोहन जी इन्हीं की पार्टी के सदस्य हैं।
…( व्यवधान)
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : इस तरह के शब्दों का प्रयोग करना आपको शोभा नहीं देता है। …( व्यवधान)
श्री चन्द्रशेखर : जगमोहन जी इन्हीं की पार्टी के सदस्य हैं, कैबिनेट के मनिस्टर हैं। उन्होंने कहा कि मास्टर प्लान चेंज करने के क्या नियम है, क्या प्रौसेस है ? बिना उसको अपनाए हुए अगर आप यहां सदन में कहेंगे कि मास्टर प्लान को जगमोहन जी चेंज कर दें तो जगमोहन जी कोई डिक्टेटर नहीं हैं और न श्री अटल बिहारी वाजपेयी जी तानाशाह हैं। उसके लिए नियम बना हुआ है और उन नियमों को पालन किये बिना कुछ नहीं हो सकता। इसके अलावा इस सदन में अकेला आदमी भी उसका विरोध कर सकता है। मैं आपसे निवेदन करूंगा कि इस तरह की गैरजिम्मेदाराना मांगें इस सदन में करना और दिल्ली की जनता में एक अविश्वास पैदा करना, उनको भड़काना न देश के हित में है और न दिल्ली की जनता के हित में है।
श्री मदन लाल खुराना : अध्यक्ष महोदय, मीटिंग बुलाकर मास्टर प्लान कैसे चेंज किया जाये, इस पर विचार करना है। …( व्यवधान) हमने तो यही कहा है कि आप मीटिंग बुलाइये।
…( व्यवधान) क्या आप इस तरह से बात कहेगे …( व्यवधान)
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