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Lok Sabha Debates

Discussion On The Demands For Grants Nos. 19 To 26 Under The Control Of The Ministry ... on 22 April, 2008

>   Title: Discussion on the demands for Grants Nos. 19 to 26 under the control of the Ministry of Defence (2008-09).  (Discussion concluded and Demands were voted in full).

 

MR. SPEAKER: Now we come to a very important discussion.  We shall take up Item No.21 regarding discussion on the Demands for Grants relating to the Ministry of Defence.  We have allotted four hours for this and there will be no luncheon recess so that the Members can get time to discuss it.

            Now, I would request Shri T.P.S. Rawat to speak.  This is his maiden intervention.

            Motion moved:

“That the respective sums not exceeding the amounts on Revenue Account and Capital Account shown in the Fourth column of the Order paper be granted to the President of India, out of the Consolidated Fund of India, to complete the sums necessary to defray the charges that will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 2009, in respect of the heads of Demands entered in the Second column thereof against Demand Nos.19 to 26 relating to the Ministry of Defence.”     LT. GEN. (RETD.) TEJ PAL SINGH RAWAT (GARHWAL): Sir, thank you very much for giving me an opportunity to present my views on the Defence Budget. 

13.22 hrs.                              (Shri Mohan Singh in the Chair) My first observation is on the very basis of allocation of the Defence Budget.  If we have a look at the allocations made in the last five years, it was 2.41 per cent of GDP in 2004-05 which amounts to Rs.90,928 crore; in 2005-06 – 2.25 per cent of GDP which amounts to Rs.1,00,960 crore; in 2006-07 – 2.06 per cent of GDP which amounts to Rs.1,10,251 crore; in 2007-08 – 1.97 per cent of the GDP was allocated which amounts to Rs.92,500 crore; whereas in 2008-09 – 1.99 per cent of GDP allocation was made which amounted to Rs.1,05,600 crore.  It will be seen that in terms of GDP allocation, there has been a downward trend in the last five years, that is, from 2.14 per cent in 2004-05 to 1.99 per cent in 2008-09.

            It is evident that the allocation is based on a statistical allocation catering for general rise in prices in each year.  This unfortunately is not the right approach as it will have an adverse impact on our defence preparedness and our ability to achieve matching capabilities against our potential adversaries.  Thus, the very basis of allocation is being challenged.

            The question is what are our expectations from the Defence Forces? What should be their reach?  For what duration we want them to sustain in battle?  There are a host of such questions which remain unanswered and untackled, the most important being what are our national objectives and national interests?  Do we have a national security doctrine?

            Whilst making allocations to our Defence Forces, we need to consider the amount that our potential adversaries are spending on Defence and for what purpose? What is their state of preparedness and capability?  A quick look at the defence spending of Pakistan and China for the year 2008-09 would show that their enhancement of capabilities is much higher than ours.

            Pakistan spends 3.5 per cent of the GDP on Defence in the year 2008-09 whereas China has allocated 4.3 per cent of GDP for Defence and this has been the general pattern over the past several years.  Pakistan today has developed matching capabilities against India.  It has developed a nuclear arsenal with no holds barred on a first strike action.  It provides bases, funds and all other support to insurgents to operate in India so as to destabilize and possibly wean away Jammu and Kashmir from it. 

China has developed a Blue Water Navy.  It has developed an anti-missile system which can destroy incoming missiles in the air and can achieve a nuclear strike in any part of our country.[R17]              It has developed several launching pads by land, sea and air to strike at our country. It is well in its way to attain a second strike nuclear capability. Our potential adversaries are watching our allocation and keeping a tag on our military capabilities so that they can follow an aggressive Defence Policy keeping us on the defensive and be able to bring political pressures for achievements of their goals. Today China is illegally occupying 38,000 sq. kilometres of our territory and laying claim to 90,000 sq. kilometres of Arunachal Pradesh. What are we doing about it? Pakistan occupied our territories in Kargil and forced us into a Kargil conflict. It still remains in possession of PoK.

            China today has occupied Tibet and the Maoist are playing havoc in Nepal, signalling an impending threat on our borders and States adjacent to Nepal. A Maoist led Government in Nepal will toe the Chinese line and can create problems for us. A reasonable number of our States are combating insurgency and naxal problems, while there is a potential threat to others in the future. Our very Parliament, where we are seated had to face an unfortunate incident.

            India has a turbulent neighbourhood, persistent boundary disputes, cross-border terrorism, internal security challenges, energy and trade security and increasing regional responsibilities. India is too large and too significant to depend on allies. We have always been non-aligned. Aren’t all these events sufficient enough to give us a “Wake up Call”? One fails to understand as to what are we waiting for. I suppose a repeat of the 1962 debacle. 

Our Defence Forces are facing several problems. There is a shortage of officers in all the three Services. The Army is still holding obsolete Air Defence Equipment and needs to make its deficiencies to manageable levels. The Air Force is much below its minimum holding of 39.5 Squadrons of aircraft. It needs to replace its MIG aircraft, commonly known as the `flying coffins’. The Navy is at a low of 131 ships against a minimum holding of 140. It has serious deficiencies in long and short range maritime aircraft. It needs to replace its aircraft carrier which was to be de-commissioned in 2006. The Coast Guards are down to 35 per cent of their authorisations.

Besides these, in the three Services there is a dilution in their intake of leadership material due to large shortages. They face a retention problem, as a large number would like to leave the Forces for greener pastures. What are we doing about it? To further aggravate the situation, the Sixth Pay Commission has not done justice to the Defence Forces. The anomaly is that the more difficult the service conditions, the more danger is to life and disturbance to family, the less you get paid. The expectations from the Forces are so much that when everyone fails, the country turns to the Defence Forces to bail them out. The canvas is so wide extending from battlefield combat to rescuing a child who is trapped in a well. You want them to be honest but you pay them so marginal that they should become dishonest.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, Budget allocations should be based on Defence Planning, the formulation of policies and strategies that will govern the allocation of funds and acquisition to fulfil them. Defence policy has to evolve from the identification and acceptance of national interests and objectives. We still do not have a clearly enunciated National Security Policy or a Defence Policy Document.  Defence planning process suffers due to absence of a National Security Doctrine. Thus, Defence Planning and Budgeting remain two separate identities without any co-relation between them. In the absence of such a relationship there is adhocism in Defence planning and hence the allocation of a flat Budget which has hardly any relevance to our objectives and interests.

Amongst various shortcomings in Defence Planning there is no organisation available to deal with inter-service plans to deal with inter-scheme priorities. Each Service is, therefore, on its own drawing its own modernisation plans without any relevance to inter-Service support of satisfying a Combined Defence Strategy or Doctrine.[R18]    There is a need for[MSOffice19]  a perspective plan covering a period of minimum 15 years from which Five Year Plans and Annual Plans can be drawn. The perspective plan should be based on an analysis of the threat scenario, challenges likely to be faced in the future and evaluation of options and alternatives.  It should be integrated covering R&D and Defence Production also to meet the Defence needs.  Perspective planning can best be done at Integrated Defence Headquarters where military, technical and R&D experts take an integrated view of future threats and challenges.  These have to be based on future battlefield scenario, evaluation of strategic options and force mixes, analysis of potential technical and industrial capabilities. Thus, defence planning is more about force planning and capability building rather than just acquisitions. The aim of defence planning should be to achieve cost-effective force mix to meet the operational requirements now and in the future.

            The military force structure that is existing today has evolved out of the perspective plans of each Service, prepared on the basis of their organisational interests.  Some defence experts advocate a shift to Capability Based Planning model, as opposed to threat-based planning so as to give ability to the Forces to perform a set of tasks.  This system would provide the right blend of plans, people, equipment and activity to optimize the capacity of our military forces to perform assigned roles.  Financial resources would be a major factor in determining the capabilities we can actually possess.

            The Government at the Centre may feel happy by saying that the Defence Forces are not able to fully utilise whatever allocations are made to them and each year, there is a surrender of funds.  Our surrenders, during the last five years, have been nearly 20 per cent in 2003-04, 5 per cent in 2004-05, 6 per cent in 2005-06, 8 per cent in 2006-07 and 10 per cent in 2007-08.

            The situation is very clear.  The present organisation and acquisition procedures are not able to handle larger defence budget efficiently.  The ‘Tehelka episode’ and accusations of kickbacks have made everyone chary of seeking any deep interest in defence deals and hesitate to put their dhobi mark in processing proposals. Formulations of staff quality requirements or projection of specifications of weapons and systems are time-consuming.  Further, once a prototype is made or an equipment has to undergo trials, that takes considerable time which may be inevitable in some cases. The cumulative impact is that modernisation suffers.

            Besides the aforesaid the acquisition procedures and movement of files between Service Headquarters and various Ministries follow a ping-pong game.  Several approvals and sanctions cause considerable delays triggering a blame game. In short, the Service Headquarters and the Ministries struggle to utilise the budget ending up with unspent amounts at the end of the financial year.  In such a situation, enhancements of budget by itself would not be beneficial.

            The problem is our faulty acquisition plans and system where a lot of reforms are necessary.  Our very budget based on annual allocation seems to be faulty.  We need to change the system by adopting a roll-on or multi year allocation plan with a non-lapsable budget. 

            Sir, defence material is generally not available on the shelf. The gestation period from the time a QR is made and approved to acquisition is a very long process and sometimes takes years and even decades.  Moreover, technological advances are quire rapid and often, by the time an equipment or weapon system which is being acquired is received, it gets outdated when it actually arrives.  Thus, its effectiveness or usage gets marginalised.

            The first case in point is the introduction of Arjun Tanks in the Army.  Project was approved in March, 1974 and 34 years have passed. A couple of Tanks are likely to roll out at the end of this year, after 34 years.

            The second case in point is about the Navy. Viraat aircraft carrier which was to be decommissioned by 2006, but its life has been extended to 2008 because Admiral Gorshkov, the aircraft carrier which is supposed to relieve and replace it, will not be ready the en[MSOffice20] d of 2012. Similarly, in the case of Air Force the LCA has taken decades. The aircraft production has still not materialised and it is likely to be inducted by the year 2010-11.  So, these are the delays which are taking place in the actual induction plan of various weapon system in our forces. 

            Defence acquisitions have, therefore, to be planned far in advance taking into consideration our planned capabilities and modernisation plans 15 to 25 years ahead, if not more.  There is, therefore, a need to completely overhaul the existing system and adopt the best practices and smart acquisition procedures evolved by countries like France, UK and Australia. 

            As regards self-reliance in critical military technology and production of advanced weapon systems are concerned, despite years of efforts our self-reliance index stands at 30 to 35 per cent against the set target of 70 per cent by the end of the Tenth Plan.  This has led our forces to remain import-dependant.  The reason is that our ordnance factories which form an integrated base for indigenous production of defence hardware and equipment with the primary objective of self-reliance do not possess the requisite Budget support for expansion and modernisation.  Moreover, they need to undergo organisational and functional reforms to be able to undertake joint ventures with private or foreign corporations and DPSUs to make them more effective. 

            Our R&D constitutes a mere 6.1 per cent of the Defence Budget. Out of this, a mere eight to ten per cent is spent on fundamental research, whereas the bulk goes in the import of foreign technologies.

            The DRDO which is a premier scientific and technical organisation in the country has been assigned a mission to design, develop and assist in the production of state of the art weapon systems, platforms and allied equipment.  The Organisation is fully involved in progressive enhancement of self-reliance in defence systems, state of the art technologies and R&D infrastructure and capability of the country.  Its basic aim is to make the country independent of foreign technologies in critical spheres.  Due to Budgetary constraints, the DRDO is not able to fulfil its basic role of developing base technologies, and fundamental research. Moreover, it suffers a retention problem of its highly qualified and experienced staff who are lowly paid. An enhancement in the Defence Budget would assist in the allocation of additional resources to meet their growing demands and taking the country towards greater self-reliance. 

            The more power our adversaries accumulate, the more provocative and aggressive their posture will be to humiliate us.  Our efforts should be to offset or neutralise such power imbalances by building our defence capabilities and allocating adequate Budget.  India being often termed as a “Soft State” stems from our weaknesses and lack of developing matching capabilities. Chinese have always proclaimed that “Power flows from the barrel of a Gun” and over the years they have steadily improved their capabilities to adopt a bullying attitude against their weak neighbours.  Slowly and steadily they will further strengthen their growing influence in Nepal, Bhutan, Bangladesh, Pakistan and South Asian countries forcing us to accept their claims or face the consequences.  A careful analysis makes it very evident that India has been surrounded by Chinese-influenced countries.  The basic intention is to choke India economically and militarily for larger political and expansionist gains. 

            Finally, I would say that there should be a comprehensive Defence Review based on “Threat Perception”.  What we need to do to counter the threat, what force structure should be built and what deterrent and preparedness we should have, all that should be considered to work out our Defence Budget.  Thus, from an input-based Budget we should adopt a programme-based Budget, encompassing all aspects like enrolment, training, equipment, weapon systems and the capabilities that we wish to acquire as also R&D and defence production to meet the defence needs.[MSOffice21]               An integrated approach where all those involved in the entire gambit of procurement and planning should form a committee and evolve a system for planning and acquisition bringing greater professionalism and expertise for better results.   Defence planning is more about force planning and capability building than just about acquisitions.   Financial resources will be a major factor in determining the capabilities we can actually possess to live in honour.

            The overall approach to defence planning should be to create a common framework in which methods of strategic, programmic and operations planning could be integrated.  Thus, Budget allocation should assist in executing capability and force planning and not merely based on financial commitments.  Our concern, therefore, is not only allocation, but its speedy expenditure for modernisation.

            In view of what I have said, it is recommended that from the current allocation of Defence Budget which is nearly two per cent of GDP, we should initially upgrade it to 2.5 per cent of GDP for a couple of years within which we should reform our acquisition systems and then take it to three per cent of GDP which should form a benchmark for future allocations so that we develop matching capabilities against our adversaries and, at the same time, develop a deterrent to prevent any opportunist action by them.  This will enable us in the future to talk or negotiate from a position of strength as also assist in fulfilling the role of regional power status.

           

सभापति महोदय  : धन्यवाद।आपकी इस सदन में यह पहली स्पीच थी। आपने बहुत ही थॉटफुल और अनुभव के साथ अच्छी बातें कहीं। मैं आपको बधाई देता हूं।

 

SHRI ADHIR CHOWDHURY (BERHAMPORE, WEST BENGAL): Mr. Chairman, Sir I rise to support the Demands for Grants placed by our hon. Minister. 

            Sir, it is a well-known fact that India cannot compromise on the security of our nation.  In spite of all our adversities and adversaries, still we make our position in the comity of nation as a strong and a great country of the world.

            Sir, heads of expenditure are neither programme nor Defence objectives but are objects of expenditure.  It needs to be logically restructured and budgeted to meet the security objectives of the country.  Our Defence policy and mechanism are following this path.  [a22] As such the political security objective of India is to deter war.  We have to put our emphasis on security and deterrence. The military security objective is to prepare the country to strike at one front and to hold the other front. The ability of the Defence Services to plan in a coherent and cogent manner hinges on a promised budgetary support from the Government.  I think that this Government is very much liberal in providing adequate fund to our Defence Services.

            Sir, if we go to the Defence Budget 2008-09, we will find that the total Budget has been estimated to the tune of more than Rs. 1,00,000 crore.  It is Rs. 1,05,000 crore. This is the first time since the Independence of our country that the Defence Budget has crossed the rupees one lakh crore mark. A sum of Rs.1, 05,600 crore has been estimated for this year’s Defence Budget.

            It is true and I am very much in agreement with the hon. Member from the Opposition that the percentage of our Defence Budget to GDP has declined.  In percentage terms, the share of revenue and capital allocation comes to 54.54 per cent and 45.46 per cent respectively. Under the capital acquisition/modernisation Budget, which is a sub-head of Capital Budget, an amount of Rs.37,482.77 crore has been earmarked which works out to 78.07 per cent of the capital allocation. So, the concern which has been expressed by various corners is being met by this Government also, which is amply indicated by the capital acquisition programme of the Defence Budget.

            Current year’s allocation to Defence reflects a growth of 10 per cent over the Budget Estimate of 2007-08 which was 7.87 per cent higher over the Budget  Estimate of 2006-07. Then, the average growth during the Tenth Defence Plan also had been 10.38 per cent. The share of Services and Departments is also the same as that of the previous financial year, not much change has been effected in Services, Departments’ respective share in the overall Defence allocation. While as a percentage of GDP – I have already referred to it -  the Defence allocation works out to 1.99 per cent, a more realistic  measure of judging Defence expenditure can be made by assessing it as a share of Central Government expenditure. At that point, the current year’s Defence expenditure constitute about 14.06 per cent to total Central Government expenditure which is almost at par with the average share of 14.39 per cent during the Tenth Defence Plan Period.

            We need huge sums for our modernisation programme. We are gradually progressing  to that end. Defence Budget is part of a Non-Plan Budget. It constitutes about 20.81 per cent of the total Non-Plan expenditure. Under the revenue and capital heads, it constitutes 12.85 per cent and 81.17 per cent respectively of the Non-Plan revenue and capital expenditure. The expenditure does not include allocation for Ministry of Defence (Civil) which stands at Rs.2370.82 crore net and also  Defence Pension which is Rs.1564 crore. Ministry of Defence (Civil) caters to Coast Guard, Ministry of Defence Secretariat, Defence Accounts Department, Director-General of Defence Estates, Canteen Stores Department and Defence PSUs.

            The major component of the net capital expenditure is very important in the discussion of the Defence Budget especially. The major components of the net capital expenditure of Rs.37,705 crore are, for land Rs.52.75 crore, for works Rs.4725.97 crore; for aircraft, Rs.11255.39 crore; for heavy and medium vehicles Rs.1657.64 crore; for other equipment, it is Rs.10994.45 crore; for naval fleet, Rs. 5858.47 crore, for naval dockyards, Rs. 725.38 crore, for machinery and equipment for ordnance factories Rs. 24.40 crore, for R&D Rs. 2184.66 crore and for other items Rs. 225.85 crore.  What I suggest is that India is a sovereign country and it will follow its Defence policy in view of its own dynamics. We cannot blindly imitate the Defence Budgets of our neighbouring countries.  More often than not, a reference to China is being eluded here.  First of all, we have to consider that unlike China, we are running a democratic country where we are responsible for the welfare of the common people. It is true that Defence Budget of China is more than the Defence Budget of India in terms of GDP. Similar is the case with Pakistan’s Budget.  But that does not mean that we have to follow the path that China is pursuing because we are not a country ever accused by any other power as an aggressor.  We have to see that within our wherewithal, we are able to defend our borders and our people.  Our defence policy is based on this and we are quite competent that we are able to, our great soldiers, our great Defence Services including Army, Navy and Air force, are quite capable to thwart any conspiracy or aggression made by any hostile power in the world.  Gone are those days of 1962!  At that time, India was a nascent democracy and we were emerging from the scratch.  But now India is a strong nation with 1.1 million strong Army which is not afraid of any enemy or any adversary.  They are ready to sacrifice their lives to defend our country which has been proved in the hills of Kargil where in spite of all adversaries, in spite of all kinds of conspiracies, in spite of all types of collusions made by various countries, we had been able to recapture our lost grounds, we had been able to prove to the world, the power of our brave army men.  Therefore, we need not be sceptical; we need not be timid unnecessarily to see the quantum of Defence Budgets of our neighbouring countries. It is true that we are being surrounded by various countries which are not following the democracy as is being followed in our country.  But however being a sovereign and democratic country, we are also extending all our cooperation based on mutual respect, mutual dignity, mutual understanding and mutual support to all our neighbouring countries.  [MSOffice23]               That is why the Chinese Premier and the Chinese President visited our country. We had also signed a protocol with the Chinese Government. We are developing our relations with neighbouring countries while maintaining our concerns and misgivings with those countries. I must appreciate that our Defence Minister who had visited Arunachal Pradesh against all kinds of hue and cry made by some power. Even the officials of the Chinese Government had made some sort of criticism when our Prime Minister visited Arunachal Pradesh, but our Defence Minister was bold enough to visit the Tawang area of Arunachal Pradesh which is being claimed by the Chinese Government as their own territory. That means we are firm on our stand and we are firm on our own convictions and we know the boundary of our country.

            Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Defence Minister that in the year 1988-89, the defence expenditure as percentage of the Central Government’s expenditure was 17.81 per cent and the defence expenditure as percentage of GDP was 3.16 per cent. But now in the Budget Estimates of 2008-09, what I am observing is that the defence expenditure as percentage of the Central Government’s expenditure has been reduced to 14.06 per cent and the defence expenditure as percentage of GDP has been reduced to 1.99 per cent. This is the first time that the defence expenditure as percentage of GDP has been reduced to below 2 per cent while our experts are demanding to raise the defence expenditure vis-à-vis our GDP to 3 per cent.

            Sir, the percentage share of capital acquisition in the Capital Budget since 2006-07 is as follows and I would like to draw the attention of the Minister to that also. The total capital expenditure in the year 2006-07 was Rs. 33,825.80 crore, in 2007-08 it was Rs. 37,705.00 crore and in 2008-09, it is 48,807.00 crore. Out of this total capital expenditure, committed liabilities are to the tune of Rs. 23,904.06 crore and the allocation for new schemes is Rs. 13,578.71 crore.

I would say that in view of the changing global scenario where we are preparing ourselves to become a blue water force, we need more upgradation, more acquisition and more induction. Further, we have to learn the modern warfare technologies because today in the world of technological warfare, we have to keep abreast of all those technological revolutions and more precisely military technological revolutions which have been taking place in the world.[R24]  14.00 hrs.                                     (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair)             [r25] Some sort of concern has been expressed in regard to the Indian Air Force that Indian Air Force is authorized for 39.5 fighter squadrons.  The long-term perspective plan of the Indian Air Force envisages that this force level should be achieved by the end of Thirteenth Plan of 2022.  I would request the hon. Minister to allay the apprehension expressed by various Members in regard to the depletion of our Air Force squadrons. 

            During the Ninth and Tenth Plan periods, the allocation of resources has brought the present Indian Air Force fighter fleet to 32 squadrons.  In the next 15 years, two-thirds of the existing fighter fleet will also be phased out.  So, naturally, it will generate some sort of apprehensions.  To arrest the forced depletion, induction of 30.5 squadrons is planned in the next 15 years; induction of eight squadrons in the Eleventh Plan; 13.5 squadrons in Twelfth Plan and nine squadrons in the Thirteenth Plan.  Of these, 11 Sukhoi-30, MKI squadrons 230 aircraft have already been planned to be inducted.  Additionally, six squadrons of medium  multi-load combat airport, six squadrons of light-combat airport and four squadrons of fifth generation fighter aircraft are at various stages of their planned induction.  That means, the Government is serious to acquire or to induct the modern aircraft. 

            As we know, due to the cumbersome procedure, it becomes sometimes difficult to induct the equipment as desired by us.  Therefore, the Government has framed up very clearly and distinctly the procurement policy, an integrated, fair off-set policy so that the Tehelka episode could not be repeated and our stature could not be humiliated. Therefore, the Government’s defence policy is always to maintain a transparency and integrity.  We must appreciate the efforts of the present Government.

            However, I would request the Government to expedite the acquisition process so that there should be no shortage of any equipment in terms of tanks, aircraft, battleships, etc. and we are always kept ready for any type of conflict.

            In the Pancharatna, it was said that of all gifts that a King can deliver, it is not the gift of gold, it is not the gift of cow, it is not the gift of land, but what is most important is the gift of security.  I hope, our Government will provide all kinds of security to the people of India.

               

  SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGHLY): Sir, I rise to support the Demands for Grants of the Ministry of Defence.  While supporting the Defence Budget, I have a few comments to make. 

            The first one is about the allocation, of course.  There may be a feeling that it should have been more or it could have been more.  But the hon. Finance Minister has stated that if needed, more can be provided. Immediately after the presentation of the Budget, the hon. Defence Minister has welcomed it and he stated that he was happy with the Budget.

            Taking that to be the situation, I will continue to add a few more comments that the under-utilisation in the Defence Ministry has become a chronic feature, particularly, in the last fiscal year, the under-utilisation is being accounted for failure to continue or execute some big ticket purchases.[r26]              For various reasons, it could not be completed.  This is not the only thing.  There should be a perfect match between the Budget allocation and the Budget requirement.  There has to be a practical approach.  Our problem is that sometimes the requirement is made on an ad hoc basis. Our Perspective Plan has to take into account security environment, our size, situation prevailing or developing in our neighbourhood and also the international situation. 

            In the Common Minimum Programme we have stated that unlike the previous NDA Government we want to pursue an independent foreign policy. It has been stated categorically that with regard to defence and security, the delay in procurement is a matter of grave concern, and the UPA Government should address those issues. But we do find that this has not been done, not only in respect of gadgets but also in respect of weaponry, research, personnel, filling up the shortage, upgradation and acquiring the latest technology.  The overall picture is that our National Security Council, till now, lacks proficiency. I am constrained to make this observation.

            There is a mismatch in different areas of Defence.  I am not commenting on which are these areas, and it is not proper also.  What is our goal?  We should achieve self-reliance. Many Parliamentary Committees had recommended that we should acquire the stature of self-reliance as fast as possible and as best as possible. 

            Our Defence Forces are doing an excellent job.  Our DRDO is doing an excellent job.  But to our dismay we do find that the provision to DRDO is not only too meagre but it is also less than the projected amount.  I would like to ask the hon. Defence Minister as to how does he propose to address one issue -  about 55 per cent of our scientists in DRDO are leaving and joining the private sector.  What have you proposed to do?  Some of them are the best in the scientific community.  If that be so, what is your programme to retain them?  Later on I shall come to the issue of grievances expressed by the scientific community in general and particularly scientists who are working in the DRDO and Defence establishments.  I would like to know what the Government proposes to do not only with regard to the Report of the Sixth Pay Commission but also with the issues of promotion, justice.  A large number of scientists are leaving the job.  A good number of them are ultimately going to appeal to the High Court. Today, the hon. Defence Minister has observed that we need to have an Armed Personnel Tribunal so that these cases relating to the issues of promotion, justice and other issues can be settled.  … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Please address the Chair.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL  : Only today I find that the Minister has said that promotion in the Services should be fair, and I do not know whether it is objectively reported or not but this has come out.  The Defence Forces in various areas are contributing not only towards our security but also contributing towards development of our nation, in our economy, in our social coherence and in other areas also.  They are sometimes working as a model.  But what is the attraction to our youth?[H27]                We have plan and programme to attract the talented youth so that they can  join the Defence Forces.  We find that in the Air Force, there is a severe shortage.  In the Navy also,  there is a shortage of officers and men.  In the Army also, there is  shortage. This shortage is continuing.

            I would like to know from the hon. Defence Minister as to how does the Government propose to fill the gap of a large number of shortages. There is a  deficiency of officers in the Army to the tune of 24 per cent. From Lieutenant Colonel and below, there is a shortage of 11,153 officers in the Army.  If you look at the figures of officers in the Navy, there is a shortage of 1,403 officers and 3,829 sailors.  If you look at the IAF, the number of additional sanctioned posts is 12,676 at different levels.  But we find that there is a severe cadre shortage.

            Therefore, I would like to know from the hon. Defence Minister as to what does the Government propose to do with  regard to these shortages. It is not a simple question.  It is not a question of developing technologies by which you would say that this technology or that technology would have to come, it would take time, and that is why there is a delay in acquisition, etc.  We know why there is a delay.  I shall come to that.  The reason for this delay is that we have a  problem  in our Defence philosophy.  First, it relates to our self-reliance, and then, again there is a continued embarrassment. Look at, what has happened to the Barak Deal. It is not only the question of some Tehelka expose.  Even day before yesterday, the Naval Chief commented that the  End Use Agreement with the US will be a disaster. We know the story of US Trenton,  what is known as Jalashya in our Indian nomenclature that a condemned ship, which was condemned in  as early as 2003, was purchased by the Government. Accidents have taken place; sailors have died.  It was all known that there was a leakage of the gas.   There is an End Use clause that you cannot use it for combat or offensive purpose.  Then, what for you have purchased it?  This is not the only one example.

            These observations were made  by the Naval Chief only  two-three days back.  It is a serious commentary on how the Government is progressing, which has been critical about the NDA Government that they were considering the US  as a natural ally, who were recklessly proceeding to subjugate themselves as a secondary partner by joining the Defence Missile Initiative, by doing so many other joint exercises and training etc.             We expected this Government to be different. We knew that this Government has taken an independent Foreign Policy Initiative in their NCMP. But to our amazement what did we find in the  June, 2005 Defence Framework?  We did not know it earlier. We came to know about it only afterwards, after the July, 2005 Statement, primarily known as the Indo-US Civilian Nuclear Deal, that it was  not a simple, isolated Civilian Nuclear Deal and that it contained so many things along with the June, 2005 Defence Framework.  That was also a continuation of the BJP initiative, which was taken to make India a secondary partner in Asia  in their Asian Goal of building up a Asian NATO.

            If I analyse these four components, which are there in the Agreement, I find that they are disasters. The number one point of the Agreement says that in the multinational operations, India will be a partner.[r28]              Which is the multinational operation without any reference to the United Nations as it happened in the case of Iraq? They had pressurised India that our forces must join the US forces for invasion of Iraq. We, on the floor of this House, had come out with a Resolution condemning that invasion of Iraq. What do they say in the agreement? We want to know that. What is this missile defence? That is a continuation.            Then, what about the training? What about the Joint Exercises?… (Interruptions) I am coming to the Budget. This is a continuation of your philosophy. I am criticizing that so that they should not follow you. Otherwise, they will follow you. What has happened to you?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Rupchand Palji, please address the Chair and not the individual.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : I am not responding to him. I am coming to my point.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:   Silence please. Do not make running commentary.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL  : In that Joint Exercise, they named the US ship. That had reached there, and there was a Joint Exercise. This is good because ultimately after our Government had done it, Australia had publicly declared that they are not joining.

But India is still now silent. Till now, India has not taken any position. It is disastrous. It will isolate us from our friends. It is not only the US goal of combating and isolating China, but it is, unfortunately, allowing us also. Knowing full well the track record of the US, how can we enter into such an agreement? We do not know. But we have done it, and the Government owes an explanation about the logistics agreement also.

 We know that at the time of Chandrasekhar’s Government once the American ship wanted to quell on the Indian soil, the whole nation had protested. Now, you are agreeing. Being the UPA Government, committed to the independent foreign policy and supported by the Left, you cannot do it. We have told you. Our leaders and our Parties have written to you that you cannot do it. This is one area that gradually the acquisition and purchase is being determined by factors other than genuine national security consideration.

There is a political joke continuing that 123 is not 123; 123 is also 126. The Government understands what I mean. Beginning from those days of the 10 billion dollars purchase of fighter aircraft till recently, we have been doing purchases from Russian sources only because we know the track record of the US. They will use it as a political tool to pressurize us, to toe their political line and to toe their Asian line. You  knew it. I do not know. Perhaps, after this technical field trial in April, it is going to happen some time in 2009 as the biggest ever purchase. This is the biggest ever purchase not only with regard to this helicopter but also in doing the earlier deal. That was almost matured with the European producers.

Now, we have decided to allow 49 per cent FDI in defence production. Why? Are you so poor? Are you so dependent? Is it not a fact that the Parliamentary Committee has repeatedly cautioned you that you support our scientists; you support our R&D; and you support our 39 ordnance products and others? Our Navaratnas are there. BEL is there. BEML is there. HAL is there. They are doing excellent jobs. If they get the proper support from the Government, they will continue to do excellent jobs. I think this FDI is going to cause immense harm to our defence production.

One more thing is that we are told--and the hon. Minister can clarify this--that there was an offset clause in the Defence Purchase Agreement, 2006. The US producers and suppliers are pressurizing this Government to undue or dilute this offset clause.[m29]              In a purchase of 30 billion dollars, it will be a huge amount. It will be a serious case of denial of transfer of technology. I urge upon the Government that on the floor of this very House the Government should assure the nation that nothing like that, dilution of the offset clause, is going to happen even after tremendous pressure by the American producers and suppliers.

            I, now, come to two more points and I conclude. One is about the Sixth Pay Commission. If officers of the rank of Brigadier and other seniors get more, I have no objection. But among the officers in the ranks of Colonel, Lt. Colonel and down below and up to the Ranks, there is a serious grievance. A good number of officers have left their jobs. There is a serious demoralisation.

            I know there is a Committee set up in this regard. I know the Cabinet Secretary is chairing that Committee. Even yesterday the hon. Prime Minister has commented that justice must be done. We want an assurance from the hon. Minister of Defence on the floor of this House when he replies to the discussion on the Demands for Grants that justice will be given to our bright, young men, officers who are defending the borders of our country, protecting our security for whom we are all proud of. It is the minimum. It should also be done in the case of the scientists to attract them, to stop attrition, to encourage self-reliance, to encourage their research, to support the DRDO and others.

            My last point is about the ex-servicemen. It was a commitment given in the Common Minimum Programme on Defence and I am reading it. “New Department of Ex-Servicemen’s Welfare to be set up. Long pending one-rank-one-pension issue to be re-examined”. These are the two points where commitments are there. I would like to know from the hon. Minister of Defence as to how much progress has been made in this regard so that the ex-servicemen, who at the prime of their youth, during the best period of their life, have rendered excellent service to our nation should feel that justice is done to them.

           

  श्री मोहन सिंह (देवरिया)  : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, रक्षा मामलों के बजट संबंधी चर्चा में आपने मुझे हिस्सा लेने का मौका दिया, इसके लिए मैं आपका आभारी हूं। राष्ट्र की रक्षा एक ऐसा विषय है, जो राजनीति का मुद्दा नहीं हो सकता। भारत के सभी नागरिकों का यह प्राथमिक कर्तव्य है कि वे भारत की सीमाओं की हिफाजत और देश की गरिमा की रक्षा करने में सहयोगी हों। दुनिया में किसी भी देश की पहचान उसकी रक्षात्मक तैयारियों से होती है। राष्ट्र की शक्ति का सबसे बड़ा मापदंड उस देश की रक्षात्मक ताकत कितनी है, अब इसके आधार पर निर्धारित होता है। भारत एक विशाल देश है और दक्षिण एशिया की स्थिरता भारत की सामरिक तैयारियों के ऊपर बहुत कुछ निर्भर करती है। मैं ऐसा मानता हूं कि भारत की पूरी रक्षा नीति आजादी के बाद से रक्षात्मक रही है, आक्रामक कभी नहीं रही। भारत का चार-पांच हजार वर्षों का पूरा इतिहास, जो लिखित इतिहास है, यदि उसका अवलोकन करें तो आक्रमणकारी हमारे देश में आये, बहुत सीमित पैमाने पर दक्षिण के कुछ राजा साउथ ईस्ट एशिया में आक्रमणकारी बनकर गये, उन्होंने वहां के कुछ इलाकों पर कब्जा किया, वरना हमारा इतिहास रक्षात्मक संग्राम का और रक्षात्मक युद्ध की तैयारी का ही रहा है और आजादी के बाद भी हमने इसी तरह के इतिहास को दोहराने का संकल्प किया। लेकिन यदि हम अपने पड़ोसियों से दोस्ती का भी रिश्ता रखना चाहते हैं तो वह रिश्ता पड़ोसियों को तभी मंजूर होता है, जब वे हमारी ताकत की ठीक-ठीक पहचान करते हैं[b30] ।

            भारत में हम जो रक्षा का बजट तैयार करते हैं हर साल इसमें वृद्धि होती है और अभी भारत सरकार ने पिछले साल के मुकाबले 10 फीसदी की वृद्धि की है। 96000 करोड़ रुपये से बढ़ाकर 105600 करोड़ रु. किया है। ऐसा कहते हैं कि 10 फीसदी ऐसी वृद्धि है। लेकिन रक्षा मंत्रालय से जितनी हमारी स्टैंडिंग कमेटीज हैं, उन्होंने अपनी सारी संस्तुति इस बात की दी कि हमारे देश का जो जीडीपी है, उसका 13 फीसदी हमें जरूर रक्षा की तैयारियों में खर्च करना चाहिए और जीडीपी के हिसाब से जब इस बजट का हम निर्धारण करते है तो हमारे जीडीपी का 2 फीसदी के आसपास किसी तरह मुश्किल से पहुंचता है। पिछली साल हमने 96 करोड़ रु. खर्च करने के लिए सेना के विभाग को दिया था लेकिन उसमें से तकरीबन 4.5 करोड़ उन्होंने बचा दिया। कुछ तकनीकी कारणों से जो रक्षा सामग्री खरीदने के उन्होंने आदेश दिये, उसमें आपत्तियां आईं, दुनियाभर के झंझट आए जिसके चलते 4.5 करोड़ उनका बच गया। इसलिए जो 105600 करोड़ रु. है, इसमें से 4.5 हजार करोड़ रु. तो उनका पुराना है, इसलिए यदि हम टोटल रक्षा बजट बढ़ने की बात सोचें तो 2 हजार या ढ़ाई हजार करोड़ रु. के आसपास हमने बढ़ाया है। मैं ऐसा समझता हू कि यह बहुत ही कम है और इस हिसाब से कम है कि जब हम अपने पड़ौसियों को देखते हैं कि वे अपनी जीडीपी का कितना पैसा रक्षा के ऊपर खर्च करते हैं। हमारे पड़ौस का पाकिस्तान जिसकी अपनी आर्थिक दिक्कतें जबर्दस्त हैं, जिसके यहां भुखमरी, परेशानी और कंगाली है लेकिन चूंकि तानाशाही हुकूमत अब तक रही, इसलिए जो सामाजिक दायित्व है, सरकार ने उसे मंजूर नहीं किया। रक्षा ही हमारी सबसे प्रमुख जिम्मेदारी है। इसलिए वे अपनी जीडीपी का 5 प्रतिशत से अधिक रक्षा के ऊपर खर्च करता है। पड़ौस में दूसरा देश चीन है जिससे हमारी पूरी प्रतिद्वन्द्विता है। हमारे देश की सरकार चीन के सामने अपनी आंख मूंद ले तो मैं ऐसा समझता हूं कि यह सच्चाई से बहुत दूर हैं। वह अपनी जीडीपी का 7 फीसदी से अधिक अपनी रक्षा तैयारियों पर खर्च करता है और इस वर्ष जो उसने अपना रक्षा बजट अपने देश में अपनी संसद में पेश किया है, जो उनकी बनी हुई संसद है तो हमारे बजट का तकरीबन ढ़ाई गुना अधिक खर्च करने का बजट उन्होंने अपने देश की संसद में रखा है।

             हम अमेरिका की भारत से तुलना नहीं कर सकते क्योंकि हम तो अपनी सीमा की चार दीवारी की हिफाज़त के लिए प्रतिबद्ध हैं लेकिन अमेरिका एक ऐसा देश है जो दुनिया का इन्तजाम अपने सिर पर लिए घूमता है। इसलिए उसके रक्षा बजट की तुलना भारत के रक्षा बजट से हम नहीं कर सकते। उसने 551 मिलियन डॉलर जो भारत के अपने रक्षा बजट से तकरीबन 21 गुना है, इस साल पेंटागन के ऊपर खर्च करने के लिए यू.एस. कांग्रेस में जो बुश साहब ने अपना बजट पेश किया है। केवल इराक और अफगानिस्तान की लड़ाई में उन्होंने 75000 बिलियन डॉलर जो भारत के अपने वार्षिक रक्षा बजट से तकरीबन ढ़ाई गुना से अधिक है, उसके ऊपर खर्च करने का बजट दिया और उन्होंने जो बात अपने देश के सामने पेश की है, वह यह है कि यदि उस पूरे खाके को पढ़ा जाए तो केवल इराक को दुरुस्त करने के लिए उसने ट्रिलिइन डॉलर यानी हिन्दुस्तान का जो सम्पूर्ण जीडीपी एक वर्ष का है, इतनी रकम अकेले इराक को दुरुस्त करने पर खर्च कर दी है। इसलिए हम अमेरिका की रक्षा तैयारियों से भारत की तुलना कभी नहीं कर सकते क्योंकि वह अपने ऊपर दुनिया की जिम्मेवारी लेकर चलता है और भारत अपनी जिम्मेवारी अपनी सीमाओं की हिफाज़त को लेकर चलता है। लेकिन हमें खास तौर से चीन से सावधान रहना पड़ेगा, इसके लिए बुरा न माना जाए क्योंकि कुछ हमारे साथी चीन का नाम लेते ही परेशान होने लगते हैं। यदि अमेरिका के साथ भारत का संयुक्त युद्धाभ्यास हो तो भारत की विदेश नीति कुछ दब रही है लेकिन यदि चीन के साथ संयुक्त युद्धाभ्यास हो तो भारत की विदेश नीति कुछ प्रगतिशीलता की तरफ जा रही है, ऐसे दोहरे मापदंड इस देश की सरकार को नहीं अपनाने चाहिए।[r31]              हम इत्मीनान से कहना चाहते हैं कि हमारा प्रमुख प्रतिद्वंद्वी आज की तारीख में हमारे पड़ोस में यदि कोई है तो उस देश का नाम चीन है। अभी भी भारत सरकार की सारी कोशिशों से सीमा विवाद हल करने के लिए दोनों तरफ से एक के बाद एक 21 बैठकें हो चुकी हैं, लेकिन उसके बावजूद समस्या का हल नहीं निकलता। भारत के प्रधान मंत्री अपने देश की सीमा अरुणाचल प्रदेश के तवांग में गए और परेशानी उस देश को हुई कि यह तो हमारा है, आप यहाँ क्यों आ गए? मैं भारत सरकार को किसी युद्ध के लिए ललकारने के लिए नहीं कह रहा हूँ। मेरा युद्ध में विश्वास नहीं है क्योंकि जो भी देश युद्ध में शामिल होते हैं, उनका नुकसान होता है। इसलिए जितने भी मसले हैं, अधिक से अधिक उनको बातचीत से हल कर सकें, वह एक बड़ी आदर्श स्थिति है। लेकिन बातचीत किससे सफल होती है - " क्षमा शोभती उस भुजंग को जिसके पास गरल हो। " इस देश के एक महान राष्ट्रकवि जो इसी संसद के सदस्य थे - दिनकर जी ने ये पंक्तियां लिखी थीं कि क्षमा तो वही सर्प कर सकता है जिसके अपने विष में लोगों को मार डालने की शक्ति हो। जो दंतहीन और विषहीन है, वह दूसरों को क्या क्षमा करेगा? इसलिए भारत को अपनी रक्षा तैयारियां ऐसी करनी चाहिए कि जो हमारा प्रतिद्वंद्वी है, उसके सामने भी जब कभी आवश्यकता पड़े तो हमारी वह स्थिति न आए जो 1962 में आई थी कि हमारे देश की सेना को लड़ने के लिए जूते नहीं थे, हिमालय की उत्तुंग पहाड़ियों में जाने के लिए हमारे पास कोट नहीं थे। उस स्थिति से उबरकर भारत को उसके समानांतर अपनी रक्षा की तैयारी करनी चाहिए, ऐसा मैं भारत सरकार से अपील करना चाहता हूँ। दूसरी बात हम कहना चाहते हैं कि हमारे देश के रक्षा कार्यों में लगे हुए जो लोग हैं, डीआरडीओ में हमारे जो वैज्ञानिक हैं, इनका वेतन ठीक से जोड़ा जाए तो बाहर ये इससे अधिक चार पांच गुना वेतन पाते हैं, यदि उनके ऊपर जबरन कुछ वर्ष काम करने की शर्त न हो कि आपने डीआरडीओ जॉइन कर लिया तो आपको इसमें आठ-दस वर्ष काम करना ही पड़ेगा। वरना एक-दो साल के बाद हमारे देश के डीआरडीओ जॉइन करने वाले वैज्ञानिक दूसरी जगह जाने लगते हैं। दूसरे, हमारे एयर फोर्स के जो शानदार पायलट हैं, उनको करीब 35000 रुपये प्रति माह वेतन मिलता है। यदि वह आज की तारीख में एयर इंडिया ही जाइन कर लें, दुनिया की उड़ान वाली संस्थाएं जाइन कर लें तो उनको ढाई लाख रुपये तक वेतन आज की तारीख में मिलता है। ऐसी हालत में केवल इसलिए कि देश की रक्षा करना हमारा राष्ट्रीय कर्तव्य है, हमें अपने स्वार्थ का बलिदान करके इस काम को करते रहना चाहिए। मैं अपील करना चाहता हूँ कि रक्षा के काम में लगे हुए जो हमारे श्रेष्ठ अधिकारी हैं, इनकी स्वयं की ज़िन्दगी को सुधारने के लिए भारत सरकार को प्रयास करना चाहिए।

            अभी हाल ही में जब पे कमीशन की संस्तुतियां आईं तो उनके आने के बाद एक बड़ी अलार्मिंग खबर अखबारों में छपी कि इस देश के जो रक्षा के बड़े अधिकारी हैं, अपने पदों से त्यागपत्र देने तक को तैयार हैं। मैं भारत सरकार से अपील करना चाहता हूँ कि रक्षा को बाकी सेवाओं से अलग किया जाना चाहिए और रक्षा सेवा के कार्य में जैसे हम सदन में अलग से रेलवे का बजट पेश करते हैं, जैसे हम इस सदन में बहस कर रहे हैं रक्षा विभाग के बजट की, वैसे ही हम भारत सरकार से अपील करना चाहते हैं कि रक्षा के काम में लगे हुए ऊपर से लेकर नीचे तक के जितने कर्मी और अधिकारी हैं, उनका अलग से एक वेतन आयोग गठित होना चाहिए जो केवल रक्षा के काम में लगे हुए अधिकारियों तक ही सीमित हो और उनकी दूसरे देशों में इस काम में लगे हुए लोगों की अपनी सुख सुविधाओं को ध्यान में रखकर यहां के भी सैन्य और रक्षा अधिकारियों का वेतन उसी अनुपात में बढ़ाया जाना चाहिए, ऐसी मांग हम करना चाहते हैं।

            तीसरी बात है वन रैंक वन पे की। 1989-90 में इस देश में एक सरकार बनी। उसने अपने चुनाव घोषणापत्र में एक वादा किया था और तब से हम इस बात को सुनते हैं। उस सरकार ने भी उसको पूरा करने से इंकार कर दिया। उसके बाद की जितनी सरकारें हैं, एक के बाद  आती हैं और चली जाती हैं। इस सिद्धांत का पालन करने के लिए कोई भी सरकार नहीं बनी। भारत सरकार और सेना विभाग के 22 सैनिक स्कूल हैं। उनको 440 करोड़ रुये दिये गये हैं। इनके अलावा भी कुछ सैनिक स्कूल हैं जैसे लखनऊ का सैनिक स्कूल है। वह उत्तर प्रदेश सरकार की जिम्मेदारी है लेकिन उत्तर प्रदेश सकार उनको सुख-सुविधाएं नहीं देती। [b32]              भारत की सेना में लखनऊ के सैनिक स्कूल में पढ़े-लिखे नौजवानों का बहुत बड़ा योगदान है, वे बहुत बड़े-बड़े पदों पर हैं। आज उसकी हालत बहुत बुरी है। मैं भारत सरकार के रक्षा मंत्री जी से कहना चाहता हूं कि लखनऊ का जो सैनिक स्कूल है, उसका राष्ट्रीयकरण करके अपने ही सैनिक स्कूल 22 में से 23 करके लखनऊ के सैनिक स्कूल की दशा को सुधारने का काम भारत सरकार करे।

            महोदय, एनसीसी मिलिट्री का एक अभिन्न अंग है और हम जब मिलिट्री का बजट तैयार करते हैं तो देश के नौजवानों को आंशिक मिलिट्री ट्रेनिंग देने का जो सबसे सशक्त माध्यम है, वह एनसीसी है। लेकिन एनसीसी के बारे में मुश्किल से एक जिले में एक करोड़ रुपए का बजट जाता है, एक बेटेलियन बन जाती है, दो-तीन डिग्री कालेजेस में उसकी शाखाएं खुल जाती हैं और कस्टमरी तौर पर जब कोई ऊपर का आफिसर जाता है तो लड़कों को बुला कर सलामी आदि देकर अपनी इतिश्री कर ली जाती है। मैं भारत सरकार से मांग करना चाहता हूं कि जितने भी विश्वविद्यालय हैं, उच्च शिक्षा के जितने भी प्रतिष्ठान हैं, एनसीसी की ट्रेनिंग उन सब के लिए अनिवार्य की जाए और एनसीसी के ही लड़कों को लिया जाए, क्योंकि ये कहते हैं कि साढ़े ग्यारह हजार मिलिट्री में आफिसर्स रैंक के अधिकारियों की कमी है। ऐसी कमी क्यों है, क्योंकि आज की तारीख में हमने जो ओपन इकोनोमी कर दी, जिसके चलते पढ़े-लिखे सुयोग्य लड़कों के लिए दूसरी गुड अपोरचुनिटी एवेलेबल हो गई। ऐसी हालत में उनके सामने मिलिट्री के आफिसर्स के रूप में ज्वाइन करना सबसे पीछे की प्रायोरिटी होगी। ऐसी हालत में आफिसर लेवल पर रिक्रुटमेंट करने का एक बहुत बड़ा माध्यम हो सकता है - एनसीसी के ट्रेंड पढ़े-लिखे नौजवान। इसलिए एनसीसी को ग्रेजुएशन स्तर पर अनिवार्य किया जाए।

            महोदय, इन थोड़े से सुझावों के साथ मैं भारत सरकार से दूसरी अपील करना चाहता हूं। हर साल मिलिट्री की बदनामी होती है और रक्षा सौदों के खरीद के मामलों में बदनामी होती है। एक के बाद एक जो भी सरकारें आती हैं, हर डिफेंस मिनिस्टर और उससे जुड़े हुए डिफेंस के आर्मी के बड़े आफिसर्स, जिनका शानदार इतिहास रहता है, रिटायर होते-होते उनके खिलाफ सीबीआई लग जाती है, सीएजी की रिपोर्ट आती है। सीएजी की जो रिपोर्ट आती है, उस पर पीएसी का सदस्य होने के नाते मैं कह सकता हूं कि पीएसी कमेटी जिस-जिस विभाग को सीएजी के पैरा की सूचना देती है, उसका वे माकुल और युक्त उत्तर देते हैं। लेकिन मुझे अफसोस के साथ कहना पड़ता है कि भारत की सेना ऐसी है जो किसी भी सीएजी के पैरा का जवाब देना, वे समझते हैं कि यह हमारे सामर्थ्य की सबसे बड़ी चुनौती है, इसलिए वे देते नहीं हैं। जब वे रिटायर होने लगते हैं तो उनके पीछे सीबीआई प्रवेश कर जाती है। भारत की सेना का एक यशस्वी इतिहास है, जिसने जब कभी भी भारत के ऊपर संकट आया तो अपने त्याग और बलिदान से देश की सीमाओं और इज्जत की बहाली का काम किया। उसी हौंसले के साथ भारत की मिलिट्री को अपनी खुद की भी इज्जत बचाने के लिए कुछ इंतजाम करना चाहिए।

            महोदय, मेरी तरफ से सुझाव है कि जो कुछ भी रक्षा सौदे होते हैं, उसकी जो खरीददारी होती है, उसमें मिलिट्री के आफिसर्स को नहीं लगाया जाना चाहिए। उसके लिए मिलिट्री के ही रिटायर्ड आफिसर, उसी के जाने हुए वैज्ञानिक, उनकी एक रेगुलेटरी आथोरिटी होनी चाहिए और रक्षा सौदों की खरीद का इनडिविजुअल नहीं, एक सामूहिक निर्णय होना चाहिए, यह मेरा सुझाव है। इस देश के अंदर जब हम इस तरह की बातें करते हैं, सिंगल और इनडिविजुअल डिसीजन होता है तो आर्मी के अंदर गुटबाजी भी फैलती है। एक आफिसर दूसरे के खिलाफ शिकायत करता है, जो ऊपर आफिसर रहता है यदि वह बेईमानी में शामिल है और नीचे के आफिसर ने उसके खिलाफ शिकायत कर दी तो जो शिकायत करता है उसी का कोर्ट मार्शल हो जाता है और ऊपर वाला आफिसर उसके कुछ विपरीत हो जाता है।

            महोदय, भ्रष्टाचार के मामलों से जुड़े हुए आरोपों की जांच मिलिट्री के ही आफिसर की नहीं होनी चाहिए, उसके लिए अलग व्यवस्था मिलिट्री के ही अंदर होनी चाहिए।[s33]  जिससे कि जो ईमानदार अधिकारी हैं, जूनियर होने के नाते, उन्हें दंड न मिले और जो बड़े लोग ऊपर बैठे हुए हैं, उनका बचाव होता चले। इस पद्धति के बारे में भी मिलिट्री विचार करे, तो मैं समझता हूं कि मिलिट्री की जो प्रतिष्ठा है, उसमें वृद्धि हो सकती है। इन थोड़ी सी बातों के साथ बहुत-बहुत धन्यवाद।

                                                                                                                       

  श्री गणेश प्रसाद सिंह (जहानाबाद)  : माननीय उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, आपने मुझे रक्षा मंत्रालय की अनुदान की मांगों पर बोलने का अवसर प्रदान किया, इसके लिए मैं आपके प्रति आभार प्रकट करता हूं। आज ऐसे विषय पर चर्चा हो रही है, जो इस राष्ट्र की गरिमा, मर्यादा, आजादी और स्वायत्तता की रक्षा करता है। इन सब कार्यों के अलावा रक्षा विभाग के तीनों सेनाओं के जो अधिकारी और सेना बल हैं, वे सामाजिक दायित्वों का भी निर्वहन करते हैं। अब प्रश्न यह है कि रक्षा बजट में जितने धन का प्रावधान किया गया है और प्रति वर्ष जिसमें 10 फीसदी की बढ़ोत्तरी हो रही है, तो क्या यह बढ़ोत्तरी यथेष्ठ है, क्या इससे हम संतुष्ट हैं या इसे और बढ़ाने की जरूरत है, इस पर गम्भीरता से विचार करने की आवश्यकता है? भारत के पड़ोसी देशों की ओर से जो चेतावनियां और धमकियां भारत को दी जा रही हैं, उन्हें देखते हुए क्या भारत की सेनाओं को और सशक्त करने के लिए, और मजबूत करने के लिए उसके पास जो वर्तमान में हथियार हैं तथा उपकरण हैं, उनके आधुनिकीकरण हेतु धन की और अधिक आवश्यकता है; इस पर भी हमें विचार करने की आवश्यकता है?

            महोदय, अभी हमारे माननीय सदस्य, श्री मोहन सिंह जी बता रहे थे कि जी.डी.पी. के मुताबिक हम चीन के मुकाबले में रक्षा के ऊपर कम धन खर्च कर रहे हैं, लेकिन इस बारे में बहुत सारे लोग और अखबार बोलते हैं कि रक्षा विभाग का बजट सभी विभागों के बजट से अधिक रखा गया है। जो परिस्थितियां हैं, उन्हें देखते हुए, मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि यह बजट कम है और रक्षा के लिए और अधिक बजट रखा जाना चाहिए। हमारे पड़ोसी देश पाकिस्तान, चीन, तिब्बत, श्रीलंका और बांग्लादेश हैं। इन तमाम देशों में जो स्थितियां बन रही हैं, उनसे हमारे देश को भी खतरा है। इससे हमारी रक्षा को खतरा है और इससे भारी नुकसान होने की आशंका है। इतने बजट का प्रावधान होने के बाद भी, हमारे पास इस समय जो लड़ाकू विमान हैं, जिन्हें हमने 20-25 साल पहले रूस और अन्य देशों की सहायता से खरीदा था, क्या उनके स्थान पर नए और आधुनिक तकनीक से भरपूर विमानों को खरीदने की आवश्यकता है या नहीं, इस पर भी हमें गम्भीरता से विचार करना चाहिए। यदि आवश्यकता है, तो उन्हें खरीदने के लिए रक्षा विभाग को और धन उपलब्ध कराया जाना चाहिए। हमारे जो पारम्परिक हथियार जैसे थल सेना के पास रायफल वगैरह हैं, उन्हें भी अत्याधुनिक रायफल उपलब्ध कराने की आवश्यकता है। इसके लिए हमें विकसित देशों के साथ संयुक्त तकनीक के आधार पर टैकनौलौजी ट्रंसफर करने हेतु करार करने चाहिए, जिससे इन्हें और आधुनिक बनाया जा सके।

            महोदय, सीमाओं पर हमेशा खतरा रहता है। कहीं घुसपैठ का मामला होता है, कहीं किसी देश की ओर से युद्ध की धमकी दी जाती है। चीन के साथ लम्बे अर्से से विवाद चल रहा है। उसने हमारे देश की जमीन पर नाजायज तरीके से दखल कर के अपने कब्जे में ले लिया है, उसे छुड़ाने में भी हम आज तक सफल नहीं हुए हैं। यह बात सही है कि हम सभी पड़ोसी देशों के साथ अपने मैत्रीपूर्ण सम्बन्ध रखना चाहते हैं, लेकिन इतने वर्षों के बाद भी आज तक चीन के साथ भूमि विवाद को सुलझाने के लिए बातचीत के द्वारा मैत्रीपूर्ण हल निकालने के लिए कोई प्रयास नहीं किया गया है। यह बहुत ही गम्भीर प्रश्न है। हमारे देश की सीमाएं पाकिस्तान, तिब्बत और चीन से लगती हैं। जो हमारे जवान सीमाओं की रक्षा करते हैं, फिर चाहे वे वायु सेना के जवान हों, थल सेना के जवान हों या हिन्द महासागर में नौसेना के जवान हों, उनके वर्तमान जहाजों से ताकतवर और अत्याधुनिक जहाजों की क्या उन्हें आवश्यकता है या नही? [r34]              मैं बार-बार कह रहा हूं कि आज जो परिस्थिति उपस्थित है, उसके लिए धन की आवश्यकता है। एक लाख पांच हजार करोड़ रूपये बहुत ज्यादा नहीं हैं। अपने देश की आर्थिक सम्पन्नता को यदि हम कायम रखना चाहते हैं तो हमें रक्षा पर भी अधिक खर्च करना होगा। पाकिस्तान हिन्दुस्तान का छठा भाग है, लेकिन वह रक्षा पर पूरा खर्च करता है, रक्षा की पूरी तैयारी करता है। लेकिन हम पीछे क्यों हैं? यह बात सही है कि हमारी आक्रामक नीति नहीं है, लेकिन अपनी रक्षा के लिए उसकी आवश्यकता है। अभी हाल के तीन-चार वर्षों में बोर्डर पर माडर्न फेन्सिंग वॉल का निर्माण किया गया है। हमने कुछ जगहों पर देखा भी है। यह काफी हद तक देश के दुश्मनों को देश में घुसने से रोकती है। इसको और बढ़ाने की जरूरत है ताकि हमारा देश, हमारी आजादी सुरक्षित रहे।    

            महोदय, सेना के जवान की जब कुर्बानी होती है, तो उसका अपने परिवार और समाज से त्याग होता है। लेकिन उसके बलिदान के मुकाबले उसे जो वेतन दिया जाता है, वह बहुत ही कम है। छठे वेतन आयोग की सिफारिशों को लागू करने की बात हो रही है। लेकिन इसमें निचले स्तर के सेना के कर्मियों को कोई खास सुविधा प्रदान नहीं की गई है। हम यह कहते अवश्य हैं कि हम उन्हें पुनर्वासित करेंगे, उनकी पत्नी और बच्चों को नौकरी देंगे। लेकिन यह घोषणाएं ही रह जाती हैं। ऐसे बहुत से जवानों के परिवार हैं, जिन्हें देखने वाला आज कोई नहीं है। उनका परिवार दर-दर की ठोकर खा रहा है, भटक रहा है। इस तरह की क्रूर नीति सरकार को नहीं अपनानी चाहिए। सरकार को सर्वे करवाना चाहिए कि युद्ध के दौरान शहीद हो चुके जवानों के परिवारों की स्थिति क्या है? उनकी आर्थिक स्थिति क्या है? उनके बच्चों की शैक्षणिक स्थिति क्या है? उस सर्वे के मुताबिक ही सरकार को काम करना चाहिए।

            दूसरी बात, जो लोग सेना में काम करने के बाद डिसचार्ज हो जाते हैं, उन्हें सीजीएचएस का कार्ड नहीं मिलता है। जब वे बीमारी से ग्रस्त होते हैं तो उन्हें किसी प्रकार की मेडिकल सुविधा नहीं मिलती है। मेडिकल सुविधा उन्हें भी मिलनी चाहिए। इसके अलावा जो जवान दस साल की सेना की नौकरी करते हैं, उन्हें पूरा पेंशन न सही, लेकिन कुछ भत्ता अवश्य मिलना चाहिए। यदि सरकार इस तरह के कार्य नहीं करती है तो सेना से प्रशिक्षण प्राप्त इस तरह के लोग खाली बैठकर आपराधिक गतिविधियों में लिप्त हो जाएंगे और समाज का भला न करके, बुरा करेंगे। इसलिए उनके बारे में भी सोचने की आवश्यकता है।

            अंत में मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि देश की रक्षा के लिए सेना के आधुनिकीकरण की अत्यंत आवश्यकता है। मंत्री जी द्वारा रक्षा की जो मांग प्रस्तुत की गई है, मैं उसका पूर्णरूपेण समर्थन करता हूं। इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करता हूं।

  श्री इलियास आज़मी (शाहाबाद) : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं आपका शुक्रियाअदा करना चाहता हूं कि आपने मुझे रक्षा मंत्रालय के बजट पर अपने Hयालात प्रस्तुत करने का मौका दिया[r35] ।

            मैं डिफेंस मिनस्ट्री की स्टैंडिंग कमेटी में रह चुका हूं।       इसका दस प्रतिशत बजट बढ़ाया गया है और एक लाख पांच हजार करोड़ रूपए तक हुआ है। इस पर मुझे कुछ ज्यादा कुछ नहीं कहना है। रक्षा मंत्री जी फौज की जरूरतों को ज्यादा बेहतर तरीके से समझते होंगे और जरूरत पर कम से कम डिफेंस मिनस्ट्री के मामले में पैसे की कमी आड़े नहीं आनी चाहिए। देश की रक्षा के लिए जितनी जरूरत महसूस हो, उतना पैसा खर्च करना चाहिए। मैं इसकी पूरी-पूरी हिमायत और ताईद करता हूं। 

            हमारे भाई मोहन सिंह जी ने कुछ इशारा किया था कि हमारे यहां रक्षा सौदों की खरीददारी में खासतौर से बाहर से सामान खरीदने पर बहुत जोर दिया जाता है।  हमारे यहां से जूता और वर्दी वगैरह विदेशों में एक्सपोर्ट होती हैं, लेकिन हमारी फौज के लिए खरीददारी करने वाली जो अथॉरिटीज हैं, वे मुल्क से खरीदना बेहतर नहीं समझतीं, बल्कि विदेश से जूता और वर्दी तक खरीदकर आती है। क्या कमीशन खाने के अलावा कोई दूसरा इसका जवाब पेश किया जा सकता है? भ्रष्टाचार हद से ज्यादा हो चुका है, इसके बारे में रक्षा मंत्री जी, जिनकी छवि अच्छी है, मैं चाहूंगा कि इस पर खास तौर से ध्यान दें।  देश की सबसे बड़ी सेवा यह होगी, अगर रक्षा मंत्रालय से खरीददारी के मामले में असलहे से लेकर दूसरे सामान तक की खरीददारी तक के मामले में, यह खत्म तो नहीं हो सकता, लेकिन अगर इसमें कमी ला दें, तो मैं समझता हूं कि देश आपके इस दौर को याद रखेगा। 

            मैं जब स्टैंडिंग कमेटी में था, तब मैंने देखा कि हमारी सेना में जवानों और अफसरों के जीवन-स्तर में, उनकी मयार-ए-जिंदगी में शर्मनाक हद तक फर्क है।  वह फर्क इतना ज्यादा है कि हमें इसके बारे में कहते हुए शर्म आती है।  रक्षा मंत्री जी यहां मौजूद हैं, मैं चाहूंगा कि जो फर्क है, उसमें वे कमी लायें। मैं यह नहीं कहता कि जवान और अधिकारी दोनों बिल्कुल बराबर की जिंदगी बितायें, लेकिन उनकी जिंदगी में जो बहुत ज्यादा फर्क है, उसमें कुछ न कुछ कमी लायें, इससे देश की और सेना की बहुत बड़ी सेवा होगी और हमारे आदमियों में एक दूसरे के खिलाफ दुर्भावना नहीं पैदा होगी। अगर इसमें कमी न लायी गयी, तो कुछ दिनों के बाद ऐसी समस्यायें भी पैदा हो सकती हैं, जिनका समाधान हमारे लिए मुश्किल होगा। बड़ी बुरी खबरें आ रही हैं, अखबारों में छप रही हैं कि सेना में आफीसरों की बहुत कमी हो गयी है और जो आफीसर्स इस वक्त हैं, वे भी वक्त से पहले रिटायरमेंट लेने के चक्कर में हैं।  अभी छठे वेतन आयोग की सिफारिशें आयी हैं, उसके बारे में भी अखबारों से पढ़कर लगता है, मुझको ज्यादा जानकारी नहीं है, लेकिन उससे यही लगता है कि सेना में उसके बारे में भी बेचैनी है, इसका भी समाधान होना चाहिए।  मोहन सिंह जी ने जो कहा कि अलग से एक कमीशन फौज के लिए होना चाहिए, मैं उससे पूरी तरह से सहमत हूं।

            मैं कुछ बातें बहुत माफी के साथ कहना चाहता हूं कि हमारी तारीख के हर दौर में चाहे वह मुगलों की बादशाहत का जमाना रहा हो या अंग्रेजों की गुलामी का जमाना, हमेशा हमारी फौज मुल्क के हर हिस्से, हर तबके, हर मजहब के मानने वालों की आनुपातिक नुमाइंदगी रही है, चाहे वह बादशाहों का जमाना रहा हो, चाहे वह गुलामी का जमाना रहा हो। बहुत समय तक हमारे सामाजिक सिस्टम में अछूतों को फौज में नहीं लिया जाता था, लेकिन अंग्रेजों के जमाने में जो अछूत कहे जाते थे, जो आज दलित कहे जाते हैं, उनकी बड़ी तादाद फौज में थी, यहां तक कि इस देश के मसीहा बाबा साहब भीम राव अंबेडकर का जन्म भी फौज की महू छावनी में हुआ था। 

            मुझे अफसोस के साथ कहना पड़ता है कि अगस्त, 1947 में जब अंग्रेज भारत के इक्तेदार अपने पुराने वफादारों के हवाले करके इंग्लैंड वापस गए और उसके बाद जो लोग पावर में आए, अपनी मानसिकता के अनुसार उन्होंने फौज में भर्ती शुरू की।  यह हमारी कमी थी और आज तक इस पर काबू नहीं पाया जा सका है। मैं एक सच्चे हिंदुस्तानी के नाते और राष्ट्रीय एकता की दृष्टि से दूर तक अगर आप सोचें, वफादारी की सोच के तहत यह बात रिकार्ड में लाना चाहता हूं कि आज हमारी फौज में समाज के सभी तबकों, सभी इलाकों और सभी धर्मों के मानने वालों की आनुपातिक नुमाइंदगी नहीं है। फौज में मुसलमानों की नुमाइन्दगी शर्मनाक हद तक कम है। इसी मौजूदा सरकार ने मुसलमानों की नुमाइन्दगी जानने के लिए सच्चर कमेटी बनाई थी और जब श्री सच्चर ने जानना चाहा कि फौज में मुसलमानों की क्या तादाद है, हमारी फौज में 15 अगस्त, 1947 से पहले मुसलमानों का अनुपात 40 प्रतिशत रह चुका है, आज एक प्रतिशत भी नहीं है।  मैं समझता हूं कि यह शर्मनाक बात है। क्या बात थी जिसे श्री प्रणब मुखर्जी, जो उस वक्त रक्षा मंत्री थे, छुपाना चाहते थे कि उसी सरकार के एक केबिनेट मंत्री थे जिस सरकार ने सच्चर कमेटी बनाई थी। जस्टिस राजेन्द्र सच्चर के समाने लाठी लेकर खड़े हो गए कि हम नहीं बताएंगे कि फौज में कौन कितना है। किस सच्चाई को उसी सरकार के मंत्री छुपाना चाहते थे और आज भी ऑथेंटिक तौर पर मालूम नहीं है कि फौज में मुसलमानों की कितनी तादाद है। अंदाजा है कि उनकी तादाद एक प्रतिशत से भी कम है जबकि मुल्क में मुसलमानों की आबादी की तनासुब 13 प्रतिशत है। हमारे रक्षा मंत्री माइनॉरिटी से ताल्लुक रखने वाले हैं, वह भी क्रिश्चियन माइनॉरिटी से ताल्लुक रखते हैं। मुसलमान भी माइनॉरिटी हैं। इसमें माइनॉरिटी, मेजोरिटी का सवाल नहीं है, सवाल सबकी नुमाइन्दगी का है, सवाल है कि सब लोग सेना को अपना समझें, सवाल यह है कि सेना से सबका भावनात्मक जुड़ाव हो, सेना हमारी सोसाइटी का सबसे अहम भाग है। यह नहीं कहता कि आप एकदम सिर्फ मुसलमानों की भर्ती कर लें, लेकिन यदि पुराने जमाने का कोई जीओ हो जो बंटवारे की तल्ख़ी के तहत जारी हुआ हो कि मुसलमानों को एक-दो प्रतिशत से ज्यादा न लिया जाए, मैं रक्षा मंत्री जी से कहूंगा कि उसे बदलें और भर्ती में ऐसा इंतजाम करें कि कोई तबका यह महसूस न करें कि हमें या हमारी वफादारी पर जान-बूझकर शक किया जा रहा है, जबकि ब्रिगेडियर उस्मान से लेकर हवलदार अब्दुल हमीद तक सेना में आधा प्रतिशत मुसलमान हैं। उन्होंने कारगिल की लड़ाई में साबित किया है। उसमें मुसलमानों का अनुपात एक प्रतिशत था और शहीद होने वालों में मुसलमानों का अनुपात लगभग 10 प्रतिशत था, जो उस वक्त के पहले रक्षा मंत्री ने मुझे बताया था। किसी के अंदर यह भावना पैदा न हो कि सोसाइटी के किसी विंग में मजहब के नाते, जबान के नाते, जाति के नाते या धर्म के नाते भेदभाव होता है। इसलिए मैं रक्षा मंत्री जी से कहूंगा कि धीरे-धीरे इस चीज को खत्म करें और 5-10 सालों में सबको अनुपातिक नुमाइन्दगी मिल जाए। सेना में भर्ती एक मसला बन रही है। यदि यह हो जाए तो आपको उस मसले से भी छुटकारा मिल जाएगा। जमाना बदल चुका है। मैं जानता हूं जिन हालात में यह हुआ था कि सेना में मुसलमानों की आबादी  40 प्रतिशत से घटते-घटते एक प्रतिशत से नीचे आ गई थी। मैं किसी को दोष नहीं देता, लेकिन अब जमाना बदल चुका है, सोसाइटी की सोच बदल चुकी है, पुरानी तल्खियां खत्म हो रही हैं जो बहुत अच्छी बात है। मैं रक्षा मंत्री जी से कहूंगा कि वे इस तरफ भी ध्यान दें। मैं ज्यादा न कहते हुए चाहूंगा कि रक्षा मंत्रालय में सामानों की खरीद में, जो विदेशों से होती है, यदि उसमें भ्रष्टाचार को कम किया जा सके तो देश की बहुत बड़ी सेवा होगी।

            इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करता हूं।

                                                                                                           

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): Hon. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I stand here to support the Defence Budget tabled by the hon. Defence Minister. 

            Sir, India pursued a military policy which is defensive in nature and its military capabilities are designed to safeguard the country’s independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity.  The entire country always stands united in support of the Defence Forces.  We are proud of the achievements and contributions of our jawans.[R36]  15.00 hrs. [R37]              The Budget allocation for 2008-09 is estimated to Rs. 1,05,600 crore in the Defence sector against a fiscal outlay of Rs. 96,000 crore in 2007-08 which was revised to Rs. 92,500 crore later. However, Defence spending continues to be below 2 per cent of the GDP. This is in spite of experts and also in spite of persistent demands from the Standing Committee of Defence for making it minimum 3 per cent of the GDP. Incidentally, China and Pakistan has been spending more than 4.5 per cent of the GDP for Defence. The present allocation in the Defence Sectors account for 14 per cent of the Government’s total spending during this Fiscal year. This allocation has increased 10 per cent from the last year’s Budget, in spite of the fact that the Ministry has failed to spend Rs. 4,217 crore in the last Fiscal. There has been a slow growth in the modernisation of the Defence forces and this painfully slow process continues to be constricted as ever. Defence Procurement Manuals and policies have come and gone but the required speed is not there. Experts from the National Security Advisory Council had recently stated that India still lacks the wherewithal for what may be called the “modern warfare”. Defence modernisation, indeed the Defence Budgeting is closely linked to indigenous strength  and we are still wanting in this respect.  It is now that we should end the negative consequences of import of Defence equipment and the need of the hour is to build a strong research and development base which can take on the projects with accountability and deliver on time with all performance parameters. While Defence Production and DRDO has achieved modest success with development and production of defence equipment and on missile technology, there are several major weapon platforms and projects that requires improvement. A Study has been conducted by the Associated Chambers of Commerce and Industry which says that the country’s military equipment imports would go up fourteen fold by 2012. Now the need is to spend more money on DRDO and production of indigenous equipment and R&D.             DRDO was established with the objective of enhancement of self-reliance in defence sector and research and development of infrastructure of the country with a vision to promote the corporate strength and to make the country independent of foreign technology in critical spheres. Although there is growth of actual share of DRDO during the last several years, but percentage-wise the share of DRDO in Defence Budget has not increased. In the present Budget the DRDO has been allocated only Rs. 33 billion. About 411 projects are in the hands of the DRDO, i.e. 2007 with the total cost of these projects is about Rs. 17061.97 crore. Now this figure will be much more. I want to know when would all these projects be completed and when the Government would provide the entire money for the cost of the projects? Now the introspection is necessary about the achievements and success of DRDO after 50 years of its inception.

Our country is no doubt obliged to our team of scientists of DRDO although we are still depending more on outside sources and import to meet our defence requirements.  For example, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) like Tejas is the requirement for the Indian Air Force, the Indian Navy and the Indian Army.   This Light Combat Aircraft was planned to be acquired with Kaveri engine integration by October, 2007.  I would like to know from the hon. Minister as to whether this project has been completed or not and whether the design of this engine has been finalised or not.  As regards Kaveri engine programme, both the design and the preparedness are very much disappointing.  This project has taken more than 18 years and there is an enhancement of the project cost by eight times than the original cost.  We do not know as to when this project will be completed.

            Coming to strategic missile family, India’s credible second strike capability deterrent Agni-III missile should have delivered a one tonne warhead some 3500 kilometres away.  But Defence sources said that the launch was successful but results are still being awaited.  It is not yet analysed.  Agni-III is comparable with Pakistan’s Ghauri-III and China’s Dong Teng though the latter has progressively evolved into a full-fledged ICBM programme and it is currently being tested to develop the Deng Teng -41 with an effective range of 14,000 kilometres.  Agni-III had purportedly been ready for launch for at least the last 30 months but it was delayed because of hectic diplomatic activity with Washington over the civilian nuclear deal.

            So far as External Research (ER) and Intellectual Property Right (IPR)  are concerned, 75 IPRs from 13 foreign countries were filed with foreign technologies for defence requirements and 40 patents were granted and 50 were accepted for grants.  Four copyrights and one design were registered by 2007 but what is the programme to enlarge the ER scheme? Has this Government taken any decision to enlarge the ER scheme?  

            Coming to another area where our DRDO is suffering, most of our scientists are not getting good remuneration, not very attractive allowances and are leaving the Organisation.  That is why, DRDO is suffering in one way.   Is the Government taking steps in that regard because the recommendation of the Sixth Pay Commission is not attractive for them? They are complaining that, in comparison with the private sector and other foreign countries, the remuneration and other allowances which we are providing to our scientists are not matching with those of other countries.  That is why, most of our scientists are leaving the Organisation.  It will be difficult for us to get good and experienced scientists in future.  What is the Government’s programme to keep our scientists with the DRDO?  This is not the case with the scientists alone.  This is the case with the entire Defence Forces.

            The overall deficiency of officers in the Army alone is around 24 per cent.  Presently, there is a shortage of 11,153 officers mainly in the ranks of Lt. Colonel and below.  This is the reply which the hon. Minister has given in the House.  So, this is the shortage in the A[MSOffice38] rmy. 

There is a good number of officers’ shortage in the Navy and Air Force also.  In the present scenario, in the era of globalisation, service in the private sector is more attractive. The multi-national companies are offering more remuneration and perks, which are more attractive.  That is why the young people are not very much attracted to join the defence services.   The shortfall in the officers of the three services is largely due to changes in the socio-economic scenario of the country.    So, what is the Government doing to get better and brilliant boys in the defence forces? 

            The three services had presented a joint memorandum to the Pay Commission.  After the publication of the Report of the Pay Commission, they had made a representation to the Raksha Mantri.  They are dissatisfied  over the recommendations of the Pay Commission. I would like to know whether the Government is actively considering to have a better revision with regard to their pay scales that have been recommended by the Pay Commission.  Are you going to pay much more with respect to their demands?

            The Ministry of Defence’s approach towards audit observations is very shocking.  The Parliament’s PAC had mandated that the Minister of Defence must submit Action Taken Report on every Audit Report within four months of its tabling in the Parliament.  The latest CAG Report lists 90 audit observations since 1996, for which the Minister of Defence has not bothered to send the Action Taken Report.  Now, the Minister of Defence must respond to the PAC on the CAG’s Report. 

            The CGDA also prepares the annual consolidated accounts of the defence services and acts as the Principal Accounts Officer. It functions as an internal auditor to the services.  But when the CAG conducted sample checks of the internal audit done by the DAD, they observed a lot of discrepancies, deficiencies and irregularities in the management of the Department in regard to the accounting and audit.  This is the most serious thing because the entire House has always stood in support of the Defence Budget.  They never put any question and Parliament also rarely discusses the Defence Budget.  The entire Parliament and the entire country is always in support of the Defence Budget. But there must be transparency in the defence accounting and accountability should be fixed for the default. 

            With the introduction of Integrated Financial Advisor Scheme in the Ministry of Defence from August 1983, the Defence Account Department came under the administrative jurisdiction of the Ministry of Defence.  The DAD is managing with 26 per cent less employees over the last fifteen years. They are also having 26 per cent less employees.  How will they manage to do the accounting of such a huge Ministry which is now having Rs. 1,05,000 crore of Budget? 

            Despite the instructions from the CAG and the repeated instruction of the PAC, the Ministry is not listening.  So, my earnest request is that they should listen to them and do the needful according to the requirement of the CAG and the PAC.[MSOffice39]                Now, I come to the issue of Sainik Schools which is a basic necessity for the recruitment of boys for further military training.  We have to make it attractive for the Defence Forces.   A sum of Rs. 440 crore has been provided in this year’s Budget as far as Sainik Schools are concerned. … (Interruptions)

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE                 (SHRI M.M. PALLAM RAJU): Rs. 44 crore has been provided for Sainik Schools.

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): So, my demand is that the Government should also think of enlarging these Sainik Schools in different parts of the country and more money should be provided for these Sainik Schools.  It is also necessary to enroll and bring girls into the Sainik Schools and women also should be recruited in the Defence Forces.

*DR. RATTAN SINGH AJNALA (TARAN TARAN) : Thank you, Deputy Speaker Sir, for giving me the opportunity to speak on the Demands for Grants under the control of the Ministry of Defence for 2008-09.  Many Hon. Members have expressed their opinion on matters pertaining to the Ministry of Defence.  By and large, there is unanimity among members that the money provided for the Ministry of  Defence is not enough. Times have changed.  The needs of the armed forces have also changed. They have to be fulfilled.

            The armed forces have always helped the people of India, whether prior to independence or after the independence.  When the British ruled over India, even at that time, our armed forces fought valiantly in World War I and World War II along with the British forces.  They were second to none as far as valour and bravery is concerned.  Our armed forces are renowned throughout the world for their glorious tradition and for their achievements.

            After independence, the Indian Government extended the hand of friendship to our neighbours.  When I was studying in college, there was an environment of camaraderie with our biggest neighbour China.  Slogans of ‘Hindi-Chini Bhai-Bhai’ (Indians and Chinese are brothers) rent the air. However, in 1962, the Chinese stabbed us in the back.  At that time, our armed forces were ill-prepared.  They could not take on the well-equipped Chinese army.  We lost large parts of our country in Ladakh and Arunachal Pradesh, which were occupied by the invading Chinese army.                                         

            Sir, I have completed more than 4 years of my term as M.P. in the present Lok Sabha.  I am distressed to note that no Defence Minister of India has announced in this august House that China has occupied our land and we should get it vacated. 

 

* English translation of the Speech originally delivered in Punjabi.

            The Chinese are browbeating us on the matter of Arunachal Pradesh. They are intruding into our territory.  But, the Government is silent on this issue.  It is afraid to take on the might of China.

            Hon. Deputy Speaker sir, we must keep an eye on the security environment around our country.  If our armed forces are weak, we cannot defend our borders.  Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty.  At the time of the Chinese invasion in 1962, the army was hit by a scandal pertaining to the purchase of army jeeps.  The defence preparedness at that time was nil.  So, sir, I agree with the suggestion of Hon. Member Mohan Singh that there should be a separate committee to purchase weapons and weapon systems for the army.  There should be transparency in all such purchases.  There should be accountability in the army.  I hope, the Hon. Defence Ministry will look into this matter.

            Sir, physically fit young men should be included in the army.  Unfortunately, the recruitment policy of the army is flawed. The present policy entails that only a fixed percent of youth can be recruited in the army from each state. The army can recruit only 2% soldiers from Punjab.  Prior to independence, the Punjabis formed 26% of the Indian army.  Now, their recruitment has been drastically cut down to just 2%.  Those who hail from the martial races are not being recruited.  If you recruit cowards and weak people in the army, how will the army win wars and secure our borders? Those who are poor but physically fit should be recruited in the army.  The present recruitment policy is deeply flawed.  Or else, you should provide reservation in the army.  Able-bodied poor people should be provided reservation in the army on the pattern of reservations for the Scheduled Castes.… (Interruptions)

I support the recruitment of physically-fit poor people in the army.  What is wrong with my demand? 

            Hon. Deputy Speaker Sir, the 6th Pay Commission report has dampened the spirit of our armed forces.  It has come as a big disappointment to our armed forces.  Print and electronic media has ably highlighted the deep resentment among the officers and personnel of the armed forces.  If pea-nuts are granted as salaries, resentment is justified. Those who lay down their lives fighting against terrorists and secessionists should be given a better pay-packet.  The armed forces deserve more. The officers in the army, navy and air-force are seeking voluntary retirement.  The private sector pays them better salaries.  Corporate houses are weaning away our officers from the armed forces.  The Government must rise from its deep slumber and hike the salaries of our soldiers and officers. Not only this, the Government must look after the educational and health needs of the families of our soldiers and officers.

            Hon. Deputy Speaker Sir, the security environment in our neighbourhood in not good.  We have fought three wars against Pakistan in 1948, 1965 and 1971.  We tried our best to develop friendly relations with Pakistan.  But, Pakistan has always stabbed us in the back.  Sir, we must solve all our disputes through negotiations.  But, we must speak from a position of strength.  No one listens  to a weakling.  Only a strong country can deal properly with aggressive neighbours.

            Sir, in Siachen, and in Kargil, the Pakistani troops took advantage of our decency and occupied vantage positions on the higher reaches of the mountains. Our armed forces suffered heavy casualties in trying to evict the invaders.  So, I urge upon the Government to strengthen our armed forces and remain vigilant.

            Hon. Deputy Speaker Sir, I hail from a border area. The soldiers take over the fields of the farmers during times of war.  Even during times of peace, the army conducts exercises.  It lays landmines in the fields of the farmers. The poor farmers are not provided with any compensation.  I urge upon the Government to provide adequate compensation to the poor farmers.

            Sir, the people of the border areas provide all help to our troops during times of crisis.  Our women even cook food for the soldiers during times of war.  Soldiers keep our borders secure.  We must take good care of them.

           

           Hon. Deputy Speaker Sir, drugs, narcotic substances and intoxicants are being smuggled into the country through our porous borders.  It is a threat to the present and future generations.  The armed forces and the para-military forces should be vigilant enough to foil the nefarious designs of the enemies of our country.

            Sir, there is a long-pending demand of the ex-servicemen pertaining to ‘One rank, One pension’.  I have raised this matter in this august House time and again for the last 4 years. However, the Government has only given false assurances in this matter. This is a genuine demand of the armed forces. The Government must put an end to the injustice being meted out to the ex-servicemen.

            Hon. Deputy Speaker Sir, more money should be provided to the Ministry of Defence in the Budget.  There are a lot of challenges before us.  The security environment in our neighbourhood has been vitiated.  In such a scenario, we must strengthen our armed forces to meet any eventuality.      

 

विदेश मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री (राव इन्द्रजीत सिंह) : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, माननीय सदस्य ने अनपार्लियामेंट्री शब्द यूज किया है।

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  I will see it.

 

SHRIMATI M.S.K. BHAVANI RAJENTHIRAN (RAMANATHAPURAM): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I thank you immensely for the opportunity given to me to participate in the discussion on the Demands for Grants of the Ministry of Defence on behalf my DMK Party headed by our revered leader Dr. Kalaignar M. Karunanidhi.

15.32 hrs.                  (Shri Varkala Radhakrishnan in the Chair)             Sir, I support the Demands for Grants of the Ministry of Defence for the year 2008-09, but at the same time I would like to express some of my views about the condition of our Armed Forces personnel in the country. At the outset, I would specially like to record in this august House that under the successful regime of Dr. Kalaignar M. Karunanidhi, only peace and prosperity prevails in the State of Tamil Nadu. I feel very proud that I come from the land of peace, that is, Tamil Nadu, but I doubt whether the same condition is there in all the States of India.

            Sir, our great Tamil poet Thiruvalluvar told a couplet about the good army as follows:

“Tharthangi selvadhu thanai thalaivantha porthangum thanmai arinthu ”   The meaning of this couplet is: ‘On an appreciation of the disposition of the enemy forces, a good army is always on the offensive keeping the enemy on the run’. Our Armed Forces are also exactly like this couplet. But at the same time, I doubt whether all welfare and protective measures have been taken for the personnel of our Armed Forces in our country. So, I demand that some protective measures should be taken for the welfare of our Defence personnel.

            At this juncture, I would like to inform this august House about a sad incident happened in my house. After a long gap I came to Delhi only yesterday evening with my lady servant. When I went to my house, I was shocked to see that all the doors were broken by some thief and some things have been taken away. If this is the condition of protection given to an hon. Member of Parliament in this country, how can the poor common people be given protection? So, I would urge upon the Government that some good protective measures should be put in place around the residences of all Members of Parliament, especially around the residences of women Members of Parliament.

            Sir, we should give encouragement to our Armed Forces personnel. Then only they will be very cheerful, they will be very careful and they will do service to the country with full involvement.[R40]   W[r41] e should do more things for the Defence personnel because the Defence personnel are under-paid for the noble service that they are doing by daring the enemies and that too at the cost of their lives.

            We all know that so much of criticism has come in the newspapers that the Sixth Pay Commission has neglected the increments of senior lots of POW and officers who are the actual force fighting for the country.  The number of intake of officers at the NDA and direct commissioning has reduced due to lesser perks and stagnation in promotions.  So, this point should be given more concentration by the Ministry of Defence.

            More than 95 per cent of the Defence personnel are not encouraging their children to join the Defence forces due to hard postings and lesser perks as we see that average students with computer skills are getting handsome salaries, whereas the Defence forces, which are doing hard work for the protection of the country, have tougher selection criteria than any other organisation and despite that they are paid less also.

            We should be ashamed of this pathetic fact that the maximum number of suicides are in Defence Services only because of the binding regimental rules, less pay and perks and increased work pressure.  The military service pay is too less for them. Comparatively, the net increment for a soldier for rendering a service of 15 to 20 years is only Rs.4,000.  It is a very meagre amount when you calculate the same scale for the next ten years till the Seventh Pay Commission is set up. 

So, I would insist that all the Defence personnel should be exempted from the income tax, at least, if no increment is thought of. Lesser we pay, lesser will be the motivation and less will be the quality of influx of the officers and men. We should also see the conditions of the Defence personnel in the Western countries where the men have pride in serving the Defence Services, whereas in our country, an individual feels shy to reveal to outside world that he is in Defence because of the poor pay that he is getting.

The Defence people can buy things from the Military Canteen at lesser price.  Why do we not allow the Defence people to get things free of cost when you are giving them less pay?  So, you can give them this facility.  Free houses should be provided to the retired Defence personnel.  That is more important.

The Defence people are mostly mentally upset because of hard postings and such other reasons.  We should provide them Yoga training and protect their health.  I read it somewhere that the uniforms that are provided to the Defence personnel are in poor condition and they have to go to the market to buy the uniforms, which fit them.  The case is that they work for the country, but they are under less care. So, we should take all the protective measures for the Defence people.

Sir, the great Tamil Poet Thiruvalluvar has beautifully mentioned in Tamil that a good Government should be as follows:

“Iyatralum Iethalum Kathathalum Kaakka Vaguththalum Vallatharasu” That means, ‘A great King will be able to acquire wealth, develop and guard it for equitable distribution on State expenditure at public good’.  So, the UPA Government, under the leadership of the eminent Prime Minister, Dr. Manmohan Singh and under the great leadership of Madam Sonia Gandhi, is doing all sorts of good things for the country.  We have also waived loans worth Rs.60,000 crore of the farmers and we are trying hard to reduce the price rise.  We are taking all sorts of measures to achieve that.

Of course, the hon. Defence Minister is a very nice, eminent, able and a senior person and he is doing all sorts of good things for the development of Defence people.[r42]              At the same time, these conditions, both physical and mental, of the Defence people and their lives should be taken care of seriously, and all the welfare measures in respect of our Defence people should be undertaken because the Defence people are taking care of all the protective measures of our country, the great India.

            I would like to point out that the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu,                Dr. Kalaignar, is doing all sorts of good things and welfare schemes for all the people in Tamil Nadu.  It is for peace and prosperity.  So, as has been done by the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, all the welfare schemes especially for the Defence people, who are the heart of our country, should be undertaken.

            Thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak.

                                                                                                           

SHRI C.K. CHANDRAPPAN (TRICHUR): Sir, we support the Demands for Grants in respect of the Ministry of Defence.  I think, the House always supports the Defence Budget with great enthusiasm because we are extremely proud of the performance of our Army, of our Defence Forces in securing our Independence and freedom, and also in securing the borders of our territory. 

            The Defence Budget, of course, is nearly two per cent of the total GDP of our country.  There is a clamour that it should go up to three per cent.  But if you look at the performance of the Government in spending the allotted budget, we see that the performance is not up to the mark. It could not spend a lot of money, and it did not even support a proposal made by the Standing Committee that a Non-lapsable Fund should be created.  I do not know why it did not support this proposal.  When so much of funds provided to the Ministry are lapsing because it could not spend, then this proposal should have been seriously considered but the Ministry did not respond to that.

            I do not think that we should compete with our neighbouring countries in Defence spending.  Firstly, we are a country dedicated ourselves to peace and development.  So, what is required is perhaps that the allotted fund should be spent more effectively, more meaningfully so that the Defence Forces are kept under alert and in a good condition.  So, I do not think that we should enter into any kinds of arms race or anything, and it is not welcome for India.   But some of the policy issues need a little elaboration from the Minister. 

            Now, you take the recent naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal which evoked a lot of protest in the country, and even the world looked at it with suspicion. The simple reason is that the military exercises used to take place on the Indian shores or on the shores of other countries in cooperation with various countries.  That is a normal thing, which the Navy does.  But in this particular case, for the first time, we have been doing a naval exercise in the Bay of Bengal, and not only that; we have been doing it in collaboration with U.S., Australia, Singapore and Japan. This has been described by China as the emergence of southern NATO.  I do not say that they are correct but why we have gone in for that.  What is the need?  I am not against the naval exercises that India is doing with other countries but not in a manner and with a group of countries that would give a different meaning of that exercise to the whole world.[H43]              So, I think, that needs a little explanation on the part of the Government.

            Sir, another important aspect is the Defence production.  There also, a policy matter is involved. The Defence production is an area, which was exclusively reserved for the public sector in the olden days of Pandit Nehru, Shrimati Indira Gandhi and all that.  Later, it got changed. The public sector allowed the private sector also to come in.  Now, we are opening up by allowing big FDI investment  in the Defence production sector.    You are allowing the trans-national companies to enter into the Defence production, where our security, to that extent,          is in danger.  We know the recent experiences of various countries.  Various articles and books have been written about it when the Government of Chile  was overthrown by the CIA intervention.  The trans-national companies in the telephone sector played a very vital role. There were many articles and books written about it.  Even  the CIA people said, ‘yes, it was involved.

            Now, we are playing this game in a more dangerous field, in the Defence sector.  In the Defence sector, we are allowing the FDI, which is now 26 per cent.  I think, you are allowing it to enhance further. So, some explanation is required on this.

            There is one more aspect, which I would like to bring before this august House.  As I said in the beginning, Defence is an area where the whole country is united; there is hardly any difference over that.  But then, how it is administered is more important.  There are lots of corruption cases and scandals going on.  It is not that in your period, it has happened.  In relation to military purchases during the Kargil War, the notorious coffin deal happened. Then, we know about the old case of Bofors.  These are the cases, which are pending for a long time.  Why should they be pending for such a long time? Therefore, I want the Government to inquire and dispose them of.  If the case is not genuine, dispose it of.  If the case is serious, and criminals are found out, punish them. But this is something very bad that the cases are hanging on fire for decades and decades together.

            Another important aspect is the findings of the CAG Report.  It speaks about the inefficiency of spending money, the inefficiency of dealing with the properties of the Defence.  I am not going into the details. All of you might have read the CAG Report.  In keeping its  own property proper, some of the lands were illegally being kept by various agencies including a club.  About six to 30 years, the case is going on and nothing has happened. The land is with a club; the land is with some educational institution. The CAG wondered as to why this is happening.  It speaks obviously of inefficiency or nepotism.  Whatever it is, it is not a very ideal thing.

            Another equally important aspect, which various hon. Members have spoken and on which our Minister is also concerned, is the suicides by the Army personnel.[r44]              There are people committing suicide. It is not just psychological aberration or something like that as some people tried to describe it. There may be an administrative reason. In some cases, the officers are shot and killed. The explanation given was that he had asked for leave; he was in dire condition; and the requirement of the leave was very important for him. The officer took an unsympathetic and inhuman view and he has killed the officer. It is not that it should happen like that. But such things are happening. You can always say that millions of people are there in the Army. The suicide may be one per cent or less than one per cent. But it is a black mark. The attempt should be not to explain it away but to find out why it is happening, especially at the lower level of jawans and wipe out that slur from the face of the defence forces. I read in a newspaper that after Mr. Antony has assumed office, he had a discussion with the officers and set up some mechanism. I would like to know whether that mechanism works or not.

            Now, there is a question of gender inequality. There is some sad case. The Minister over there is also nodding her head. Some of the officers, obviously, women raised complaint against the treatment but they were not fairly treated. That is how we understand when we read it because Army is surrounded with a veil of secrecy. So, we will understand what is written in the Press. But I would request the Minister to look into that matter very seriously because this is an important thing that there should not be any gender oppression or any treatment smacks of gender inequality in the Army. It is not a healthy development.

            Then, I think the Members mentioned about some of the performances. They are there in the Report of the Standing Committee about the deal of Admiral Gorshkov, an aircraft carrier, which is to be re-modelled or refashioned and to be brought from Russia. We thought that it will be in waters when Admiral Viraat is being decommissioned by 2008. The decommissioning of Viraat is certain. Unless the Government’s latest promise is fulfilled that they will give a fresh lease of life, it will not be there. About the other ship which was supposed to come, you now say that you may get it in 2010. But whether it is sure or not, nobody knows. So, one should come to know what exactly is happening. It is a serious matter.

 Along with that, you should take note of the fact that in Cochin Shipyard, you are constructing an air defence ship. It was expected to have been commissioned during some of these days. But it seems it is also getting delayed. What does it mean? If this delay is condoned and our Admiral Viraat ship is decommissioned, then that would mean we may have to compromise with our naval defence. It is expected that one ship will be in the Bay of Bengal and the other ship will be in the Indian Ocean. That is what the defence people have told us but what is happening is that we are facing a condition where neither of these two ships will be there. The Viraat ship that is there will be decommissioned. So, I think that also needs some kind of an explanation.

            Now, the Coast Guard is a good instrument of the Army, and it is guarding our long coast. It does commendable service.[m45]              There is no doubt it. We are all happy about the work of Coast Guard. But some of the recent reports, especially about Kerala are worrying. Two kinds of reports have appeared. One is that the LTTE has successfully managed to enter Kerala through Tamil Nadu. It is not any slur on Tamil Nadu. They came naturally through Tamil Nadu and they are operating on the Kerala coast, near Cochin, in Wypin Island. They are having their shipyard with the help of the local boat-building people. This is something very surprising. With all our defence preparedness and everything, and especially in that region after the LTTE menace became serious, how could these people sneak into there? They entered into deals with boat-building people, not ship-building yard. … (Interruptions)

            Sir, I am concluding now.  It is a very important matter in which you are also interested. The LTTE should not get this opportunity to sneak into our coastal area and connive with our boat-building people to have their boats commissioned for military purposes. Somehow, we could not do something there what we should have done.

            Lastly, I am now concluding, the Sixth Pay Commission Report has come out. Today a very welcome speech was made by the hon. Prime Minister who assured the Defence forces, both civil as well as military people, that their interests will be taken care of. It is very good if the hon. Prime Minister assures that. I feel that assurance will be implemented.

            But the present condition of the Defence Forces regarding their pay is not at all very appreciable. Take the case of the pensionary benefits. There are 20 lakh ex-servicemen and 4.6 lakh widows of ex-servicemen. Their condition, at present, is very pitiable. Various types of pension facilities are there. I must say all types of facilities should be seriously looked into with a little more humane and considerate approach and their problems also should find solutions.

            Sir, these are some of the things I would like to bring out in this discussion. I wish the Government well. I hope our Defence Forces’ interests will be taken care of and the country’s too.

SHRI VIJAYENDRA PAL SINGH (BHILWARA): Sir, I stand to speak on the Demands for Grants of the Ministry of Defence. It is a coincidence that today is also the Earth Day and I would like to commend the Navy and the Coast Guard who do a great work to keep our coastline clean. They have others to do, but this is also one of the parts of the job that have been given to them. On the Earth Day I really commend them that they keep our coastline, which is such a long coastline, unpolluted and clean.

            Sir, much has been said and I must say here that in the 60 years of Independence that we have enjoyed, the Defence Forces had a great contribution to that and we are proud of the Defence Forces and along with that we must also say that the paramilitary forces, the Defence Forces have done a great and commendable job and we are really proud of that fact.

            Coming on to the issues, most of the issues have been taken up earlier by the speakers who spoke before me. One of the issues is the Sixth Pay Commission report which every hon. Member has mentioned. Let me mention here and I am happy to note that the hon. Prime Minister has intervened and said that it must be reviewed. We must look into it that the Defence Forces are such an important institution, which must be cared for.[k46] 

16.00 hrs.             At the same time, I would like to put forth to our Defence Minister that he must convey to the Prime Minister that today the Review Committee, which is being talked about, is going to be of bureaucrats again and they would like some sort of representation of theirs. If it is again of bureaucrats, then I would like to submit that the tilt - I would not like to say much - would always be of bureaucrats because they are the people who are doing it and who are the main people who had put forth the Sixth Pay Commission. So, let us have a bigger participation in this. I would like to submit that a Colonel today, after 15 years of service, is getting only Rs. 15,000 more than the salary at which he had started his job. When he becomes an officer, he gets Rs. 30,000 and after 15 years of service, he is getting Rs. 45,000 only. If that is how things are, then it is a sad thing and we must correct it.

            Today everything has changed. We have a warfare which is not conventional, which is not what it used to be and in the fourth generation of warfare that we have come to, things are different from the conventional warfare. You need real technology, you need the best of armoury and you need armaments so that a small group can control a lot of people. In doing that, the thinking of the officers is also required. If the thinking of the officers is required, we need thinking officers and if we need thinking officer, we need to pay them well. That is what I wanted to put forth here.

            Sir, the Defence Budget is good, but let us not talk only about two per cent or three per cent of GDP which is being spent on Defence, if we cannot spend it. When we cannot spend this two per cent or three per cent of GDP, even if we make it five per cent and it remains unspent, which has been talked about, that has to be looked into. If you are trying to look into that, one of the issues is that we had the Bofors issue 25 years ago. I am here not to talk about who took the money, where the money went and who is Quattrocchi. I am not interested in all that, but the shadow of the Bofors issue is still looming on us. That is the reason that we have not been able to spend the money. That is a worrying factor that even after 25 years, people in the international world and the international sellers shy away from India because they feel that there will be inquiries, there will be re-tendering and all those things. Why do you not put this correctly that we need to rectify the whole system? All the nations do a lot of buying. India is a big buyer of armaments. When we have so much money being spent on armaments, why do we not have a system which we can copy from Australia or other countries which are also buying so that we have a system which is transparent as well as better? Otherwise, we will be lagging behind. With all that money that we have, we have not been able to get the equipment. That is a very big issue and needs to be looked into.

            Sir, I must say that there are middlemen in this business all over the world. There are companies and governments who make lot of money in this. If they are making a lot of money in this, we can also have a representation system, like we have in other spheres, subjects or Ministries. We have such a system in Ministry of Power and all that. Why do we not have this system here, and why do we not recognise people, where they can come and do this?[SS47]  Otherwise, the international players in this business do not want to do business with the Indians. Hence, we do not get the best equipment. This issue has to be looked into.

            Another issue is with regard to the Chief of Defence Services (CDS). Today, all the countries have gone in for the CDS system. Why should we not also get into this system? If we have the CDS system, then it is very important in the integrated warfare. If cooperation from one Department or one agency is not there with the others, say, the Navy is not cooperating with the Air Force and the Army, then there are problems. We have seen this when we had faced Tsunami. We had a CDS system in Andaman and Nicobar Islands, and I must commend and mention that he did a great work because the CDS system was there in that small island. If it was not a CDS system, then I think that we would not have been able to achieve what we have achieved after the Tsunami in Andamans.

            I do not really wish to mention it, but the selection of the Chief today has also been in a lot of controversy. It is not right to mention it here, and I will not take their names. But there have been statements by the Chief, and he has been saying that they are not bothered about what is happening in Pakistan and all that. I must say that we have  to get  the best person, and we must have the best system.

Today, I find that because of some discrepancy or anomaly in the system where for the accounting purpose one can have the person retiring on such and such a date to retire at the end of the month, but what really happened in the selection is that there was a retirement and instead of following the accounting system you retired a person who was the number one in the Sword of Honour in the IMA and who had the merit in the NDA.*...

                                           

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.        

SHRI K.S. RAO (ELURU): Sir, I support the Demands for Grants of the Defence Budget. I would like to begin by saluting the defence forces for the sacrifices that they are making to secure our independent sovereignty and territorial integrity.

            We cannot measure the services that are being rendered and sacrifices that are being made by them in terms of money. I am of the opinion that the pay-scales of the defence services have to be increased substantially. I have seen the provision in the Budget. The increase in the salaries also is less than 10 per cent. We know that the price rise and living standards and costs are very substantial in reality, though the index does not reflect it, more particularly, in the expenditure of the middle-class and the fixed-pay people.[r48]  It is also visible when the hon. Minister himself made a statement that there is shortage of officers of 11,000 and odd people, and not many are coming forward to join the defence forces, which was not the case earlier. We used to feel proud to join the Army in the earlier days. But today everybody thinks that better life can be had in corporate sector than in the defence forces. Obviously, it means that motivation is not there. It is not the amount of Rs. 1,05,000 crore that he has allocated to the Defence that ensures the security of our Independence. The feeling or the burning desire must be there among the people that they must also be a party or a member and they must contribute to the might of the defence forces in this country to protect the hard-earned Independence and sovereignty. That is possible only when an effort is made, particularly at the students’ level.

            When we were students, almost everybody was a student of the NCC (National Cadet Corps). But today we do not find that many students in the schools interested in joining the NCC; even the number is too little. My humble request to the hon. Minister is that particular attention must be given to this aspect. I am also of the opinion that if it is possible it must be made compulsory for every citizen of the country, male citizens at least, if not female citizens, to take training in the defence and be prepared to protect in case there is a need. It is not that they will all work in the Army, but they must be prepared. During their lifetime, they must work in the defence for at least two years minimum. When a country like America and European Countries are observing this policy, why can it not be followed in India?

            Sir, the person who is willing to sacrifice his life in defence is troubled by not being able to make his both ends meet, while a person in the corporate sector is making tonnes of money. What is the justice? Should there not be parity? What is the kind of sacrifice which the soldier is making for the nation and what is the kind of sacrifice the corporate man is making for the nation? That must be weighed and then substantial reward must be given. I want the hon. Minister to take this aspect into account.

            Basically, I am of the opinion right from my childhood that most of the defence expenditure is incurred while taking into account our neighbouring countries. It is not America or the European Union that we take into account to decide our defence expenditure. We will only see what kind of situation we will be facing from the neighbouring countries. It is mostly Pakistan which has become the basis for deciding our expenditure because the other countries, be it Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Myanmar, Nepal or any other country, are not going to have any effect on the increase of defence expenditure in this country. Some of the countries are supporting Pakistan for all these years by giving a lot of modern defence equipment, and then the nature of their Governments is such that in order to retain their own political positions, they provoked quarrels between these two countries by creating suspicion and animosity. All those things were there and that was our experience. Keeping that in our mind, we were increasing our defence expenditure. Now, the relations are improving; they are better and tilting towards the positive side. I wish the hon. Minister to think in terms of reducing our expenditure on defence by increasing diplomacy and our relations with our neighbouring countries. If that can be done, the same money can be utilized for developmental activities. If it were done earlier, we would have excelled and would have overtaken even America a long time back.[r49]  I want the hon. Minister to focus more on this aspect and utilise the Ministry of External Affairs’ services to improve our relations particularly with the neighbouring countries so that our defence expenditure can be reduced further.  It is not that I want him to reduce the expenditure right now but we can reduce it after the relations are improved.

            I have seen the Finance Minister allocating about Rs.44 crore to the 22 Sainik Schools in the country. It was once a matter of prestige to get admission into a Sainik School. However, nobody talks about them now. I understand that the responsibility of maintaining the Sainik Schools is in the hands of the State Governments. I want each State Government to ask for more and more Sainik Schools to be set up. We should increase awareness among the students and maintain high standards of education. One of the reasons why I particularly stress this is that the values are going down day by day in general life. There is no sense of discipline.  The thought of sacrifice for the nation is not there. The spirit of service is forgotten. All these things are found in abundance in defence services. So, one way of developing ethical values, improving moral values among the people is to see that every citizen becomes a member of the Defence Services at least for some time. I want the Defence to be used in this respect also.

            In regard to Border Roads, we have visited some border roads recently as Members of the Public Accounts Committee. It is a horrible situation in which the defence people travel to the extreme ends of the country because there is no communication facility and road facility in those areas. I understand all these days it was being done by the Border Roads Organisation of the Defence Services. When the Government is thinking in terms of privatising many things, why cannot the Ministry think in terms of taking the services of the corporate sector in this regard and increasing the facilities overnight? We do not need to spread our targets over hundred years if we take the help of the corporate sector. Once you make a road, for years together that can be used. While a neighbouring country of ours has laid even a railway line up to our border, can we not think in terms of doing the same thing to facilitate our own defence people to be more comfortable and be able to reach the border areas more easily in order to secure them? I wish the hon. Minister to think in terms of improving the Border Roads Organisation by taking the services of the private sector.

            Most of the equipment purchased in the Defence now is imports. Why cannot the Ministry think in terms of asking the Indian manufacturers to start such industries here? If that is done, we can provide employment to our unemployed youth, we can increase the economic activity, and we can reduce the cost of equipment. How long should we depend on imports? Should it be a permanent feature? Our people are intelligent. We can allocate more funds to our Defence Research Organisation. We have proved that we can do much better than most of the developed countries given the opportunity and resources. We are not short of manpower. I want the hon. Minister to allocate more funds to the research and development activity; encourage setting up of industries in the country; think in terms of encouraging the corporate sector to start defence industries. Even the developed countries are permitting their private sector to enter into their defence sector. This will reduce Governmental expenditure and increase the economic activity.

            I understand that about two lakh acres of land is there with the Cantonment Boards.  Where is that? It is not located in villages; it is located in the heart of cities. The value of these lands runs into millions of crores of rupees. If those lands can be utilised in the manner the Cantonment Boards feel fit, it will result in increased economic activity. That would result in increase in the resources of Defence Services. That land can be used for common purposes in the cities. So, instead of leaving such lands vacant for decades together without putting them to any use, I want the hon. Minister to think concretely to utilise cantonment lands also.[KMR50]              We admire the services of the Army personnel, particularly during the natural calamities and  in the critical positions of law and order. We appreciate that. Can there be a separate division by itself so that it need not be linked to other activities and their services would be readily available?  They would also be made more talented and more trained in that regard and the concerned State people would also feel comfortable and they can utilise  the services every minute and hour, particularly those people who are in the natural calamity affected areas.

            I have seen the capital outlay that is made for the last year. I understand that it was not put to use even today, to the extent of, 70 per cent.  As my colleague has stated,  whatever allocations have been made, must be  put to use. In the inflationary economy, the money which is allocated is not used will lose its value.   So, I also want that to be taken care of by the hon. Minister. … (Interruptions) I have seen surprisingly that the allocation that has been made by the USA is US Dollar 550 Billion, while in India, it is US Dollar 26 Million. Once again, I appreciate that we are not interested in arms race like America nor we have any desire to occupy anybody’s land.  We are a peace loving country. We require arms more for defence than offence. I agree that we do not require so much money but instead of purchasing these equipment from America, etc., where many a time it is questioned about the transparency.  Lot of doubts crop up, which may be real or unreal.  But  with this Minister, nobody can suspect about it.  Even if somebody raises an issue, nobody believes it also. But I want this transparency to be there in promotions of officers also. Many a time, it is felt that it is not transparent. Be it the punishments given to officers or promotions, some doubts have always come up about these things.   I wish the hon. Minister to make transfers and promotions also transparent.  I wish during the tenure of our hon. Minister, Shri A.K. Antony, the Defence Ministry would gain better reputation and it would improve the efficiency of the Armed Forces, its motivation and then the economy, and by his insistence also to the effect that the External Affairs Ministry to improve relations with the neighbouring countries over a period, we can reduce the expenditure and utilize the funds for the development of the country.

DR. K.S. MANOJ (ALLEPPEY): Sir, I rise to participate in the discussion on Demands for Grants of the Ministry of Defence. I begin with paying homage to the Defence personnel who have sacrificed their lives while safeguarding our country.  I also salute the Defence personnel who are safeguarding our country. My previous speaker from my Party has already made some of the general  observations on the Demands of Grants of the Defence Budget.  Hence, I will not go into such details.  I have two or three points of concern.  One is regarding the attrition of manpower in Defence Forces.  In all the Services, there is attrition of manpower.   In Navy alone, it is around 4,500, both including sailors and officers. So also in Air Force and Army. With the presentation of the Sixth Pay Commission Report, I fear that the attrition rate would increase further. [r51]  Even though the hon. Minister has sought support from all walks of life, the Sixth Pay Commission did not pay much attention to the uniform personnel.    There is a growing resentment among not only the Defence personnel but also among the police constables and IPS Officers.  The defence of the country would be at stake if not some attention is paid to the Pay Commission.  It is learnt that the Government has instituted a Committee comprising of all the Secretaries.  I am of the opinion that though the Committee of Secretaries would submit its Report, a Group of Ministers should look into the recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission. Uniform personnel both in the Defence force and Home Affairs should be taken care of and should be adequately paid.

            Another point of concern is the area of research. DRDO and Defence PSUs are actually the pride of our nation.  DRDO has made wonderful contributions in the field of research and development.  But I suspect some sort of cornering against the DRDO.  We find a series of negative reports in the newspapers with respect to it.  Nobody is highlighting the wonderful work done by the DRDO. Even in the Budget only 75 per cent of the projected amount has been given to the DRDO.  More than 24 per cent, which comes to around Rs.2,300 crore, of the projected amount for the DRDO is curtailed by the Ministry.  This should be looked into.  I would rather suggest that instead of the projected amount, more amount should be given to the DRDO as we are moving forward for the indigenisation of the Defence Forces.

            We depend on foreign countries for our Defence procurements as a result of which there is time and cost over-run and ultimately in certain cases we have to discard the project also.  So, more research and development activities involving even the private entrepreneurs within the country should be promoted.

            As per our Defence procurement policy, we allow 26 per cent FDI in Defence procurement with an offset clause.    It is learnt that this offset clause is not met. I fear some sort of conspiracy because foreign entrepreneurs want to hike the amount.  Some reports say that this may be enhanced to 49 per cent.  This offset clause is not met even in case of 26 per cent FDI which we have allowed in Defence procurement. So, they are actually compelling or pressurising the Government to hike the FDI in Defence sector.  This should not be allowed.  The Government should rather promote our own public sector units engaged in Defence production. [R52]              Our HAL, BEL, BEML and others are doing very well. If you take the revenue details of all these defence public sector undertakings, they are earning profits.  So more investment should be made in these national public defence units and also more amount should be provided for the DRDO and other research activities in the country.

            The importance of Coast Guard is gaining momentum because of the threat through sea but the allocation for the Coast Guard is not enough and its human resource should also be encouraged.  I come from a coastal village.  I would like to say that the coastal folk have got some inherent capacity but the percentage of coastal folk in the Coast Guard and Navy is very meagre.  We are not promoting these people who are living in coastal areas.  So, there should be some recruitment campaign in the schools and colleges of the coastal areas.  They should be promoted to join Coast Guard and Navy.

            As regards welfare of the ex-servicemen, a rehabilitation and re-employment programme is there.  The Director-General of Resettlement have issued some directions to the public sector enterprises.  Mostly, they have got security jobs.

MR. CHAIRMAN  : Please conclude now.  I have given you double time. 

             Hon. Members, those who want to lay their speeches, may do so.

DR. K.S. MANOJ : The ex-servicemen are employed as security guards.  In Kerala, BSNL was employing the security guards.  But now they are taking away the chances of these security men and they have given this job to some outside agency in the guise of house keeping. They are not giving this job to the DGR sponsored security agencies.  But it is being given to the outside private agencies.  I have already written to the hon. Defence Minister and also to the Minister of Information Technology requesting that this should not be allowed.  They are getting only the security job in the public sector companies.  If that too is denied, where will the ex-servicemen would go?  They are retiring from service at a very young age and these are the only jobs where they could be accommodated.  There is a recommendation of the Standing Committee on Defence in this regard.  

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Please conclude. 

DR. K.S. MANOJ  : Sir, I am the last speaker from my Party.

MR. CHAIRMAN:  Why do you not complete your speech and sit down?

DR. K.S. MANOJ : Recently, we have got several complaints from the service personnel who have been terminated from Defence Forces.  After the Police verification, it has been stated that during their youth hood, they have worked for the Left Parties.  Now the UPA Government is supported by the Left Parties.  But under the guise that during their young age, they have worked for the Left Parties, they have been terminated from the Defence Forces.  That should be looked into.  The only thing is that they have worked for the Left Parties.  The hon. Minister should look into the matter and some corrective measures should be taken.  They may not be re-recruited  but some pension benefit should be given to them.[R53]  Sir, there is gender inequality in the Defence Forces. It is just not only gender inequality, there is gender discrimination also. Military nurses are the only female employees in the Forces. After taking nursing training, they are given certificates by the President of India. Now their uniforms have been changed and also their designations also have been changed. They also are facing harassment in their work fields. This aspect should be looked into. They should be considered as part of the Forces. As like in the Western countries, the Government should think of constituting an Army Nurse Corps.

            Sir, owing to paucity of time I would conclude my speech here. I support the Demands for Grants for the Ministry of Defence.

           

श्री शैलेन्द्र कुमार (चायल)  : सभापति महोदय, आपने मुझे वर्ष 2008-09 से संबंधित रक्षा मंत्रालय की अनुदान मांगों पर होने वाली चर्चा में भाग लेने का मौका दिया है, इसके लिए मैं आपका आभार व्यक्त करता हूं। मैं इनके समर्थन में बोलने के लिए खड़ा हुआ हूं। बहुत से माननीय सदस्यों ने काफी अच्छे सुझाव दिए हैं, मैं उनसे अपने को सम्बद्ध करता हूं तथा उन सुझावों में कुछ और बातें भी जोड़ना चाहता हूं।

            देश की एकता और अखंडता को अक्षुण्ण रखने वाले सेना के अधिकारियों और सैनिकों पर हमें गर्व है। आज वे विभिन्न मौसम में, विभिन्न परिस्थितियों में देश की सीमा पर एकता और अखंडता को अक्षुण्ण रखने के लिए तैनात हैं। हमारे देश में जल सेना, थल सेना और वायु सेना है। हमारी कोशिश होनी चाहिए कि हमारी रक्षा प्रणाली और ज्यादा दुरुस्त हो तथा खास कर हमारे जो पड़ोसी देश हैं, चाहे वह चीन है, पाकिस्तान है, उनके बजट के बराबर हमारा बजट होना चाहिए, क्योंकि भारत ने हमेशा मैत्री, शांति और सौहार्द के दूत के रूप में अगुवाई की है। हमारा पड़ोसी राष्ट्रों के साथ अच्छा रिश्ता है और कोई ऐसी बात नहीं होनी चाहिए, जिससे हम इन राष्ट्रों के आगे कमजोर सिद्ध हों।

            जहां तक रक्षा उपकरणों का सवाल है, अगर वे सही मापदंड पर खरे नहीं उतरते हैं, तो इससे हमारे देश का सम्मान गिरता है। रक्षा उपकरणों में सैनिकों की ड्रैस तथा लड़ाई के दूसरे उपकरण भी शामिल होते हैं। उनमें क्वालिटी और क्वांटिटी दोनों चीजें होनी चाहिए। हमें इसमें किसी प्रकार का समझौता नहीं करना चाहिए। मैं माननीय रक्षा मंत्री से कहना चाहूंगा कि जब हम अन्य देशों से उपकरणों की खरीद-फरोख्त करते हैं, तो उस समय ज्वायंट पार्लियामेंटेरी कमेटी का गठन होना चाहिए। इसी सदन में पिछली सरकारों पर रक्षा सौदों के बारे में आरोप लगे हैं। मैं सुझाव देना चाहूंगा कि जिस तरह से सामान्य बजट और रेल बजट प्रस्तुत होता है, उसी प्रकार रक्षा बजट भी अलग से प्रस्तुत होना चाहिए। सामान्य बजट और रेल बजट की तरह हमे रक्षा बजट को भी सम्मान देना चाहिए। यह चिंता का विषय है कि रक्षा मंत्रालय में अधिकारियों की कमी है। समय-समय पर समाचार-पत्रों में आता है कि सेना के अंदर अधिकारियों तथा सैनिकों में बहुत असंतोष व्याप्त है। यह बहुत गहन चिंता का विषय है। छठे वेतन आयोग की सिफारिश आई हैं। हमने देखा है कि समय से पहले कितने ही अधिकारियों और सैनिकों ने वीआरएस लिया है और यही अधिकारी तथा सिपाही प्राइवेट सेक्टर में नौकरी कर रहे हैं। उन्हें रक्षा मंत्रालय से जो वेतन मिलता था, प्राइवेट सेक्टर में उससे ज्यादा वेतन दिया जाता है, इस कारण उनमें असंतोष फैला हुआ है। इस बारे में विशेष तौर पर ध्यान दिया जाना चाहिए।

            क्या कारण है कि आज हमारे फाइटर विमानों में आए दिन दुर्घटनाएं होती रहती हैं। इन दुर्घटनाओं में हमारे अच्छे-अच्छे पायलट्स की जानें जा रही हैं।[R54]  जिससे हम देश का गौरव खोते हैं, इस पर हमें चिन्ता करनी चाहिए। मैं जब सरकारी कॉलेज में पढ़ता था तो एनसीसी एअर विंग के लड़के इसमें बहुत अच्छी तरह इंटरेस्ट लेकर भाग लेते थे। आज क्या कारण है कि हमारे तमाम डिग्री कॉलेजेस में  यह विंग कमजोर हो रहा है, किसी बच्चे का इंटरेस्ट नहीं है। मैं मांग करना चाहूंगा कि क्लास नाईंथ से बीए तक एनसीसी एअर विंग को कम्पलसरी कर दिया जाए जिससे अच्छे पढ़े-लिखे नौजवान सेना में आने के लिए प्रेरित होंगे।

            यहां सैनिक स्कूल की बात हुई। मैं कहना चाहूंगा कि कम से कम वहां एडमिशन के लिए हमारा कोटा फिक्स हो जाए जिससे हम अच्छे बच्चों की सिफारिश कर सकें और वे प्रवेश लेकर देश की रक्षा में महत्वपूर्ण भूमिका निभा सकें।

            मैं इसके साथ ही अपने क्षेत्र की समस्या की ओर आपका ध्यान आकर्षित करना चाहूंगा। उत्तर प्रदेश में इलाहाबाद का ज्यादातर हिस्सा सेना के एरिया में आता है। बमरौली एअरपोर्ट एअर बेस है, वायु सेना का सैंटर हैं और कैंट एरिया है। हमारे थल सेना में बहुत से नौजवान हैं। बमरौली खास तौर पर मेरे क्षेत्र में पड़ता है, एक असेम्बली सैगमैंट है, जहां रास्ते को लेकर आए दिन झगड़ा होता है। मैंने कई बार सदन में यह बात उठायी है और वहां के अधिकारियों से भी बात की है। आपने उन्हीं लोगों की जमीन अधिग्रहण करके एअर बेस बनाया है। अगर उनको रास्ते की प्रॉबलम आए तो यह बहुत चिन्ता की बात है। मैं चाहूंगा कि उस एरिया के एमपी या एमएलए के साथ बैठ कर उनके रास्ते के बारे में विचार किया जाए। बमरौली एअरपोर्ट के अगल-बगल देखा गया है कि वायु सेना के कर्मचारी और अधिकारी किसानों की जमीनों पर बोर्ड लगा देते हैं और कहते हैं कि यह जमीन एक्वायर की गई है जबकि ऐसा नहीं है। हम लोग जनता द्वारा चुने हुए प्रतिनिधि हैं। एअरफोर्स के लोग हमारे साथ बैठ जाएं तो मेरे ख्याल में यह समस्या दूर हो सकती है। उमरी गांव पूरा एअर बेस है। आए दिन वहां लोगों को बड़ी दिक्कतें होती हैं। इसी प्रकार से मेरे क्षेत्र में हैप्पी होम होकर एक रास्ता गया है, जिसे बंद कर दिया गया है। इससे आम लोगों को दिक्कतें आती हैं। आप वार के समय रक्षा के दृष्टिकोण से इसे बंद कर दीजिए लेकिन नॉर्मली उस रास्ते को खोल देना चाहिए।

            वायु सेना बेस पर जो एअरपोर्ट है, वहां दो एअरक्राफ्ट्स चलते हैं, एक एअर इंडिया का है और दूसरा जैट का है। नाइट लैंडिंग प्रॉबलम दिखा कर आए दिन प्राइवेट एअरक्राफ्ट्स कैंसिल रहते हैं। उससे लोगों को बड़ी असुविधा होती है। मैं एक सुझाव देकर अपनी बात समाप्त करना चाहूंगा। कंटोनमेंट बोर्ड में कम से कम स्थानीय एमएलए या एमपी को विशेष आमंत्रित सदस्य बनाना चाहिए ताकि कंटोनमेंट बोर्ड की तमाम समस्याएं दूर हो सकें और वे अच्छे सुझाव दे सकें। मेरे यहां एक नीवां गांव है। उसका कंटोनमेंट से होकर रास्ता जाता है। वह भी आए दिन बंद रहता है। इसे लेकर सेना के लोगों के साथ झगड़ा होता है। आपने भर्ती बोर्ड के कुछ सैंटर्स बनाए हैं। मैं चाहूंगा कि तहसील और ब्लॉक स्तर पर विशेष भर्ती अभियान चलाएं। मेरे क्षेत्र में कोशाम्बी जनपद है। वहां भर्ती बोर्ड बनाएं। मैं जानता हूं कि मेरे क्षेत्र से अगर अच्छे नौजवान भर्ती होंगे तो सेना को बल मिलेगा। मेरे क्षेत्र में लांस नायक सूर्यबली सिपाही था। वह वीर गति को प्राप्त हो गया। 6 महीने हो गए हैं। बहुत लिखा-पढ़ी करने के बाद आज तक उसे सुविधा नहीं दी गई है। मैं चाहता हूं कि जो सेना के जवान या सिपाही मारे जाते हैं, उनका गांव में स्मारक बने, उनके परिवार को सुविधा दी जाए। जैसे स्वतंत्रता संग्राम सेनानियों का स्मारक तहसील और ब्लॉक स्तर पर बनता है, उनके शिलापट्ट लगते हैं, उसी प्रकार सेना के शहीदों के शिलापट्ट लगें ताकि आज के नौजवान उनसे सीख ले सकें। इन्हीं बातों के साथ मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करता हूं।

                                                                                                                                   

*SHRI P.S. GADHAVI (KUTCH) : Sir, I express my views on demands for grants for ministry of defence for the period of year 2008-2009. 

I - N.C.C -The National Cadet Corps was formed on 16th july, 1948 and as we all know that NCC is one of the very important wing for giving training to our youths which will prepare disciplined citizens for our country but I am sorry to say this is given lesser priority.  I request hon’ble minister to pay more attention for improvement of this is very important wing.

II - SAINIK SCHOOLS Similarly I urge hon’ble minister to see that more and more sainik schools should be opened particularly one in each district of country so that in future shortage of officers in army can be met with.

III - MARINE ENGG. INSTITUTIONS As we have got very vast sea coast and therefore, on coastal areas marine training institutions such as marine engineering schools and colleges also requires to be established by our navy so that we can get fully trained personnel required by our navy.  Here I would like to refer explanatory notes on defence services estimates for the year 2008-2009, given on pages 61-63 and 65.

IN EXPLANATORY NOTES ON MAJOR HEAD 2077  : It has been mentioned that the Indian navy consists of ships such as aircraft carrier, cruisers, destroyers, frigates, mine-weepers, submarines etc. and shore establishments, such as training institutions, dockyard, storage depots and other miscellaneous, technical and administrative establishments.  It also has a separate Aviation wing consisting of Naval Air stations and a fleet requirement unit.  The training establishments cater to the training of new entry sailors, apprentices and boys as well  as for specialized training  of officers and  men in  mechanical and electrical     * Speech was laid on the Table.

engineering, gunnery, communication, navigation, anti-submarine and naval aviation etc.  There are also schools for training in seamanship, physical culture, supply and secretariat, etc. MINOR HEAD 101 : The Provision made under this minor head covers expenditure on pay and allowances of the services personnel of the Navy including Cadets, Boys, Apprentices, etc. undergoing courses of training prior to their Commission/ Regular engagement in the Navy.

The provision for the pay and allowances of the personnel of the Defence Security Crops serving with the Navy and Army Officers and personnel deployed in Military Engineer Service.

EXPLANATORY NOTES – MINOR HEAD 104 : The Provision made under this head covers expenditure on pay and allowances of the civilian personnel of the navy.

MINOR HEAD 104 (A) : The provision under this head covers pay and allowances of the civilians employed in various training establishments of the Navy, viz., Electrical and Mechanical Engineering Training Establishment, the Shipwright Training School, the Dockyard Apprentice School, Combined Schools, etc. MINOR HEAD 104(B) : This head provides for pay and allowances of the civilians employed in the stores depots (other than Armament stores Depots) of the Navy.

IV - AIRCRAFT ENGG. INSTITUTIONS :  Similarly more and more training institutions to train our boys for aircraft engineering and such training should be in every state of our country so that in future shortage of qualified staff in Air Force can be met with.

V - DEFENCE PRODUCTION UNITS IN GUJRAT :  The Defence Equipment Production requirement for our forces is also requires to be strengthened and span of ordinance factories requires to be widen. sir, here I would like to bring it to the notice of hon’ble minister that though the state of Gujarat is considered to be one of well developed industrial state and it has got very vast sea coast, one of the important naval base at Jamnagar and Porbander and also it has very important Air Force Bases at Jamnagar, Bhuj and Naliya, inspite of all these, I am sorry to say that Gujarat is not having any ordinance factory though there were all positive survey reports on its potentiality for having important ordinance factory in Gujarat. I, therefore, request hon’ble minister that if there are positive reports for having an ordinance and production units required by our Air Force. Please see that one big unit and naval ship building unit be established in Gujarat.

VI – NIGHT LANDING FACILITY AT BHUJ AIRPORT  : Sir, I would like to invite the attention of hon’ble minister that at present the control of bhuj airpot is with air force and bhuj is a district head quarter.

            At this airport there is a night landing facility but as air force is not allowing service planes to land there after sunset, by which civilians air passengers are facing much difficulties for night landing. I request hon’ble minister to examine this matter and please see that night landing service to planes be allowed.

VII – BORDER FENCING : On this project, in budget provision on Rs. 608 crores have been made.  Sir here I would like to invite the attention of hon’ble minister that this work is being carried out mechanically without application of mind to the requirement terrain in which such border fencing is to put. I can say that if wire and steel border fencing we put in Rann of Kutch over where vast span of salt is spread over that area and due to atmosphere over there steel and wire fencing is going to be rusted within very short period and all expenditure incurred over it would go waste.

            In this area some experts suggested to have Ditch-Cum-Canal instead of wire fencing or cement concrete wall.  I, therefore, request hon’ble minister to consider the appropriate alternatives steel and wire fencing as per the requirement of that particular area.

SHRI MANVENDRA SINGH (BARMER): Thank you Mr. Chairman for the time given to me. 

            I must first support what my colleague Shri Shailender Kumar has just now said about recognising the contribution and the sacrifices of our brave soldiers.  All such departed soldiers must be recognised in every part of the country. 

            I have been given time by you for participating in this discussion on Demands for Grants of the Ministry of Defence.  My intervention has both brickbats and bouquets. I will start with the brickbats and then come to bouquets. 

            It is most disturbing that the capital expenditure was reduced last year in the Revised Estimates from what was cleared. It is disturbing, it is worrisome and it is dangerous.  I cannot highlight this fact more than what my colleagues have already highlighted. I do not need to repeat or stress on the points any more.  What is indeed worrisome is that this is after the new procurement procedures have been instituted, new procurement  policies have been instituted.  Through you, I would request that the Ministry of Defence and the hon. Minister pay greater attention to this. 

            It happens especially in the field of defence which has a long process of selection, trials, induction, and evaluation. Such delays cause very worrisome situations for the country.  I do hope that this does not happen again in the future.  Last year, it was a very strange and disturbing phenomenon.  This is a reflection of some planning flaws. The same flaws are reflected in how our expenditure outlays are being designed.  We seem to be working on a ‘one-and-half-front-war-situation’ rather than on a ‘two-front-war-situation’ as we have been always told that the Army, the Navy and the Air Force are structured for or designed for or prepared for.  It has to be a ‘two-front-war-situation’. 

Due to these planning flaws what we are seeing today is our structures, our planning, our expenditure are not catered to the 21st century threats.  They are essentially for outdated pre-partition or pre-1947 scenarios.  If you look at the 21st century threats, the principal threat comes from the oceans.  This has been an area where India has always been vulnerable.  It disturbs me to repeat as it has been repeated earlier that our outlays, our planning, our preparation as far as the Navy is still very inadequate, insufficient and also incomplete.  The Navy has the principal responsibility for our future, both in a security sense and in an economic sense.  From the Red Sea to the South China Sea, the Navy has a responsibility to maintain trade routes, sea lines of communication, social rescue, disaster management, disaster relief and also aid to friendly countries should it arise at any given time. 

Through you, I would request the Ministry of Defence to have a re-think, to have a re-look at the preparation of the Navy because of the three services, the Navy is the one that requires the maximum lead time for design, development, construction and induction of vessels.  Today the situation is such that it is not only the hardware but also the man power which is going to bring us security, which is going to bring us safety and keep India a safe and secure country.  The most important aspect is the man power.[MSOffice55]  The point of manpower shortage has been repeated time and again.  So I would not stress on that.  The Sixth Pay Commission matters have been repeated by my senior colleagues and again I would not like to dwell on that .  again.  

            Sir, the little boquebouquet that I have for the hon. Minister of Defence on this matter is that after a a longlong time , thinking has gone into paying greater attention to S sainik Schools. Some budgetary provisions have been made for S sainik S schools.    I cannot welcome it and say that it is enough.  But I would like to say that it is a But I would like to say that it is a great step.  But, unfortunately, that is not enough.  W we know what is the S the sainik Schools’ situation in the country .  what it is.  The State Governments have to contribute their bit.  That contribution is lacking.  I would go further and request the hon. Minister of Defence, through your intervention, that the Sainik S schools and military schools which were designed and which were created in order to bring ou t r services, the best manpower available both in terms of officers and soliderssoldiers should be supported. , I wish greater stress was paid on that. Like the military schools are run by the MinhistryMinistry of Defence, if the S sainik S schools can be taken over more in a day-to-day running sense, change the management, change the entire model of the S sainik S schools , it would be good.  Today because  I am given to believe that the Sainik School students are only about 22 per cent of our induction in the officer corps.  That is an insufficient figure.  I wish this figure was raised and the Ministry of Defence took over Sainik schools to a greater degree than what it is today. I am sure this critical shortage of officers that we keep talking about could be overcome in the long run.

            Sir, I want to leave two points with you and both are sort of a warning of an impending disaster that is facing us. The first one is concerning land and my colleague, Shri Shailendra Kumar, has mentioned some points.  I would like to ask the hon. Minister of Defence that in 1947 when India became independent how much land area of the country was Ministry of Defence land and how much is it now.    There has to be a rationalisation of land acquisition and land use by the Ministry of Defence.  It should be unrestrained acquisition of land without any logic, without 21st century technology availability which is an unhealthy sign because that alienates people.

            My second and last point is that it seems strange that when the world is going and heading towards joint operations, joint planning and joint doctrines, the Indian Defence structure retains its old pre-1947 structure, pre-1947 planning and pre1947 thinking.  We continue to exist as if Army’s threat is an Army’s threat and Navy’s threat is Navy’s threat.  The future of operations is joint operations and joint structures have to be created.  But I see no progress in that direction. 

            So, I would request your intervention and request the hon. Minister of Defence to pay a greater attention to that.  That is an immediate requirement.  It is not a future requirement, but it is a requirement of today.

             

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN (PALANI): Sir, I rise to support the Demands for Grants under the control of the Ministry of Defence for 2008-09.

            First of all, I want to congratulate our hon. Ministers, Shri A.K. Antony and Shri M.M. Pallam Raju.  They are taking personal keen interest upon the welfare of the Army men in this country who are rendering very valuable service for this nation. 

            Our Indian Army is the second largest army in terms of military personnel. It is a voluntary service. 

           Sir, in the 2008-09 Budget, the Ministry of finance has allocated Rs. 1,05,600 crore for Defence sector.  It is ten per cent over the last year’s allocation of Rs. 96,000 crore.  If we compare with China and Pakistan it is lesser. Our Army is having strength of 1.3 million men and they are getting Rs. 36,270 crore. 

The allocation for the Indian Air Force has increased by 4.6 per cent. The Navy has got a hike of Rs.329 crore more. If we compare the Defence Outlay, this year’s allocation is very high. During the year 2002-03, it was only Rs.65,000 crore; in 2003-04, it was raised to Rs.65,300 crore; in 2004-05, it was Rs.77,000 crore; in 2005-06, it was Rs.83,000 crore; in 2006-07, it was Rs.89,000 crore and in 2007-08, it was Rs.96,000 crore. In the current year, it is Rs.1,05,600 crore.

In the same manner, the unspent money  by the Defence Ministry for the past years is huge. It is alarming. Since 2002, the total amount unspent by the Defence Ministry is Rs.22,517 crore. I want to mention the unspent and lapsed amount and give the particulars here.  In the year 2002-03, it was Rs.9000 crore; in 2003-04, it was Rs.5,000 crore; in 2005-06, it was Rs.1300 crore; in 2006-07, it was Rs.3000 crore. Hence, I would request the hon. Defence Ministers to look into this and spend the money at least for the welfare of our army men who are serving in the border areas. Even though we are allocating huge amount and spending more money, it does not reach the army men working in the border areas of this country.

            I want to make certain points now. It is with respect to the leave facility of the army men. A few months back, there was an article published in a weekly magazine about HIV AIDS. I am sorry to state that about 50 young Indian army men, went to Mumbai. They were all taken to the Blood Donation Camp. They all gave blood. Out of the 50 persons, about 19 persons’ blood was rejected because the blood was infected by HIV AIDS. This is the situation. The reason is that for two or three years, they are not allowed to go on leave. They work continuously. So, at least, once in a year, leave has to be granted. They have to live with their family members.

            I now come to another important thing. We select certain officers for the three Services. We are deputing them to foreign countries. In nearly four or five countries, they are working for the development of the Army. For example, in Tajikistan, our army officials are working there for the development of the Army in that country. Out of the four countries, in respect of the remaining three countries, the officials are permitted to take their wives and families. Tajikistan is an exception. The army officials working in Tajikistan have to spend their pocket money to take their wives and children. So, it has to be followed in a uniform manner.

            Next, I come to Border Roads Organisation. On the 12th of this month, one of our members in the Border Roads Organisation by name Shri Govindasamy who was from Tamil Nadu, was killed in Afghanistan. Such  cases are there. So, the Government of India, the Defence Ministry has to allocate more funds for the welfare of the family members of the army personnel.

            I want to mention another important point. It is about NCC. To encourage NCC, it was established in the year 1948 under the NCC Act. The  NCC’s presence is extended to 607 districts covering 8514 schools and 5255 colleges.… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN  :  Please conclude.

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN  :  I want five more minutes. It is a very important point about NCC.

MR. CHAIRMAN:  There are many hon. Members to speak.

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN :  Please give me two more minutes.

MR. CHAIRMAN:  I cannot agree with you. Please conclude.

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN :  We are giving so many facilities for the students.  The Defence Ministry is having the Short Service Commission. Under the NCC Special Entry Scheme, NCC cadets with the ‘C’ Certificate with 50 per cent marks are eligible to appear for the Short Service Commission. I would humbly request the hon. Defence Minister to direct all the State Governments to give job opportunities for the students having NCC Certificates.

            The next thing is with respect to the Sixth Pay Commission. The recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission are in no way helping the army men. They are working in the border areas. They are rendering a valuable service for this country. For example, out of the 1.1 million strong Indian Army, about 45,000 are only officials. [R56]  17.00 hrs. The rest of them are the soldiers. As per the Pay Commission’s recommendations, the soldiers will get only Rs. 1000 per month as military service pay. Officers will get Rs. 6000 per month. Those who are sitting in the air-conditioned rooms are getting Rs. 6000 and those who are dying for this nation are getting only Rs. 1000.  It is a pathetic situation. 

Our hon. Minister of Defence, Shri A.K. Antony, also took various steps in this regard, but this issue has not been resolved.  With respect to allowance, the present officers are getting Rs. 7000 per month as Siachen allowance whereas a solider gets Rs. 4667 per month.  Under counter-insurgency allowance, an officer gets Rs. 3150 to Rs. 3900 per month while a soldier gets Rs. 1500 to Rs. 2700 per month.  There is a big variation in disability and family pension also. Things have to be rectified.  The money that we are having should be allocated for welfare of the soldiers, especially those working in the border areas and far-off places.  These are my suggestions.

     

SHRI SURESH PRABHAKAR PRABHU (RAJAPUR): When we were young we used to think that Defence expenditure as a part of the total Government expenditure is causing distortions in terms of development priorities of the country. We used to think that because a lot of money is getting diverted to Defence, enough money is not available for rural development, education and health care, etc.  If you look at the figures now, the GDP is growing at a very fast rate – we have already crossed a trillion dollar mark – but the percentage of the Defence expenditure in the GDP is falling year after year.   It has already fallen to less than 2 per cent now. Therefore, it is a matter of serious concern that all our borders are becoming very insecure. The threat perception is rising and the dimension of threat is changing.  The seriousness of it is not being felt in terms of increasing the Defence expenditure that is required.  Therefore, it is a very serious matter that on the one hand we realize that we have to have more people looking after Armed Forces and we realize that we need more equipment, but on the other hand, we are trying to lose a lot of it.  The expenditure is not good enough to determine as to what extent we are actually investing in our Armed Forces. What is required is the quality of that expenditure.  If I am incurring the expenditure for the betterment of the people or modernization, I can understand it.  If I incur expenditure just to justify that I am incurring expenditure, it is not a good point to score.  I would think, over a period of time, the Army will protect land; the Navy will protect sea and the Air Force will protect the air.  But the threat perception is changing so dramatically that we really need to make sure not to confine ourselves just to these three limited areas, but we should go beyond it.  Now, let me deal with Defence equipment.  This is something which we should really be ashamed of. 

17.03 hrs.                              (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair) All the time, we talk about India going to become a super power – only time will prove if we become a super power or not. But today we want to be super power. Who is going to protect that super power status?  All the imported equipments are going to protect us, that we are going to buy from all over the world!  Can we become a super power with imported equipment to protect our Defence Forces? The most important thing is to note as to how we modernize our Defence factories, not because they can acquire just technical know-how, but how we can use that know-how - domestic as well as from outside - to make equipments in India.  Rather than becoming a net importer of Defence equipment, we should become an exporter of Defence equipment.  Today, we are using our limited Defence Budget to support the economies of other countries of the world.  When we import Defence equipment, this is actually what we are doing. Every time, we see that a President or a Prime Minister of any country comes to visit India, he is always accompanied by companies which sell Defence equipment.   Now-a-days, we see more of them coming to India.  I, sometimes, wonder whether they are coming here as representatives of those countries or to help us strategically or to sell equipments. So, my request to hon. Defence Minister would be that we must make sure that modernization of Defence equipment takes place in a manner that we do not depend on imported equipment to actually maintain our borders.   [MSOffice57]                 Sir, in 1958, exactly 50 years ago, we created the DRDO. We are proud of their record in many ways. They have done a good job. But I think 50 years is not a short time. So, whatever learning curve was there, it is already completed. Now, I think, the DRDO should really try to compete with the best defence research organisations in the world in terms of research and development. We should benchmark them because whatever new equipment we are going to make and the new technologies that we are going to develop should be able to match with the best available in the world. Therefore, I would request the Defence Minister to create this Global benchmark related aspirations for the DRDO which should really be able to meet our future challenges in terms of domestic production and not just depend on imported equipment.

            The other issue that is always plaguing the Defence Ministry is that all Defence Ministers are shy of buying equipment. If we do not buy, there is a problem of shortage of equipment and if we buy, it becomes a controversial issue. So, my request to the Defence Minister is that he should come out with a procedure which should facilitate early disposal of all these issues and at the same time we should be able to procure, but we should not be shrouded with secrecy and controversy.

            The other important issue is the people themselves because the intake is falling dramatically and people are just leaving the Army. Even our Air Force pilots want to join Jet Airways and other private commercial airlines. My submission is that we must strengthen our catchment areas from where we get new recruits into the Armed Forces. The Sainik Schools and the NCC should really be modernised in such a way that these institutions are actually able to work as catchment institutions to get more people. Then, we must also sensitise our people. We must bring some sort of glamour to the Armed Forces so that people are attracted to join our Armed Forces. Today, the private sector is offering such incentives that it is impossible for the Army to compete with that. So, I would request the Defence Minister to use the mass media to bring in some glamour for the Armed Forces so that people are attracted to join the Armed Forces.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please conclude.

SHRI SURESH PRABHAKAR PRABHU : Sir, I am the only speaker from my party. I have just started. So, please give me some more time.

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: पार्टी का टाइम खत्म हो गया है।

SHRI SURESH PRABHAKAR PRABHU  : Sir, please give me some more time.

            When we talk about people leaving the Armed Forces, in the last few years we have seen a huge exodus of people from the Armed Forces. Therefore, we really need to make sure that we provide them with good incentives rather than keep on recruiting new people and training them only to lose them to the private sector. So, how to retain them is also a challenge for us which we should try to meet successfully.

            There is a peculiarity in the Armed Forces that we like people to leave the Army so that young blood can come in and that is a very sensible thing. But when you want people to leave, it is the responsibility of the Armed Forces to give them enough training in a manner that they will acquire such skills which will help them to carry on with their lives outside the Armed Forces without wearing uniform. That is what we should really try to do.

            Then, the morale of the Armed Forces is something which is an extremely important issue. I think we must make sure that we keep it at a high level. To do that, we must provide proper promotions and give rewards to them in a proper way. Whatever the Armed Forces have done for our country, we are proud of them, but if we give them proper promotions and incentives, they would be able to do a much better job. Then, we should not use our Armed Forces at random for controlling any civil disorders that take place in our country. They should be used only in exceptional circumstances.

            I would like to make only two more points. The first one is about intelligence. I think we really need to strengthen our intelligence base of the Armed Forces in a very significant way. Now the dimension of the threat and the perception of it is changing so dramatically that the challenge before the Armed Forces is that they should get advance information. Before the others act, we should be able to know who is going to act so that we can act before them. So we really need to strengthen the intelligence set up of our Armed Forces. For that, we really need to bring in a lot of synergy between our various intelligence institutions. Therefore, we need more technology, but at the same time we also need more human capital to make this happen. I hope we do that.

            My last point is about strategic thinking. I would like to submit to the Defence Minister that we need a strategic thinking on many issues. Now, I know, as often happens, Government necessarily is not the best place where the original ideas emanate anywhere in the world.[R58]  [r59] It is because the Government, by definition, is busy in doing so many things.  So, we must encourage formation of think-tanks in India, which should be supported by the Government and who offer them ideas, who will be actually a sounding board for some of the ideas that the Government will ask them to apply. I think, we should try to do this part and if it is done then I think, we will be able to really do a greater service to the Armed Forces.

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : अगलेमाननीय सदस्य का नाम बोलने के लिए पुकारने से पहले मैं माननीय सदस्यों से निवेदन करना चाहता हूं कि वे अपना भाषण कृपया पांच मिनट में समाप्त कर दें।

श्री अविनाश राय खन्ना (होशियारपुर): उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, आपने मुझे बहुत ही महत्वपूर्ण विषय पर अपने सुझाव रखने और अपनी बात कहने का अवसर प्रदान किया है, इसके लिए मैं आपके प्रति बहुत-बहुत आभार प्रकट करना चाहता हूं। बहुत सी बातें कही जा चुकी हैं। मुझे याद है, कुछ दिन पहले ही श्री एम.एम. पल्लम राजू, रक्षा मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री ने पार्लियामेंट में एक प्रश्न का जवाब देते हुए बताया कि सेना में लगभग 15 हजार ऑफीसर्स की पोस्टें वैकेंट पड़ी हैं। उसके उन्होंने कई कारण बताए, जैसे कि प्राइवेट सैक्टर में सैलरी या रैस्पैक्ट ज्यादा है। इस प्रकार के कई कारण बताए थे। सेना में चेंज इन कैरियर परफॉरमेंस है और टफ सर्विस कंडीशंस हैं। मैंने बाद में मंत्री जी से मिलकर एक बात कही थी कि शायद सरकार ने जो नैचुरल फीडिंग सेंटर्स थे, जो नैचुरल फीडिंग स्टेट्स थीं, उन्हें इगनोर कर के, उन्हें भूलकर आर्मी की रिक्रूटमेंट पर ध्यान दिया। जैसे पंजाब, आर्मी में, हमेशा अपने यहां से सबसे ज्यादा लोग भेजता था। पंजाब में भी, मेरे संसदीय क्षेत्र होशियारपुर के एक पार्ट कंडी से सबसे ज्यादा लोग फौज में भर्ती होते थे। मेरा ख्याल है कि कंडी एरिया में ऐसा कोई घर नहीं होगा, जहां से परिवार का एक न एक सदस्य फौज में न हो।

            महोदय, आज उस फीडिंग स्टेशन को इगनोर किया गया है। उसके कई कारण रहे हैं। पहले पंजाब और हिमाचल प्रदेश एक राज्य था। हिमाचल प्रदेश हिली एरिया है। हिली एरिया होने के कारण उसे रिलैक्सेशन दिया जाता था। जब पंजाब और हिमाचल प्रदेश अलग हो गए, तो हिमाचल प्रदेश को तो वह रिलैक्सेशन मिला, लेकिन पंजाब का रिलैक्सेशन वापस ले लिया गया। उसमें कुछ सर्टीफिकेट बनते थे, जैसे डोगरा सर्टीफिकेट बनता था। आज पंजाब में यह स्थिति है कि जो डोगरा आर्मी में है, उसके पिता के पास तो डोगरा सर्टीफिकेट है, लेकिन यदि बेटा आर्मी में जाना चाहता है, तो उसके बेटे के पास डोगरा सर्टीफिकेट नहीं है। इसके कारण आर्मी की रिक्रूटमेंट पर काफी फर्क पड़ा है। इसलिए मैं आपके माध्यम से मंत्री जी से निवेदन करूंगा कि सरकार इस विषय में सोच-विचार कर के कोई न कोई हल निकाले। मैं माननीय मंत्री जी से निवेदन करना चाहता हूं कि आप हमें एक मौका दें, मैं अपने क्षेत्र से ही, एक साल के अंदर जितनी भी पोस्टें खाली हैं, उन्हें भर सकता हूं। यह मेरा चेलेंज भी है।

            महोदय, देश में यदि सबसे अनुशासित फोर्स अगर कोई है, तो वह आर्मी है। जब वे आर्मी में रहते हैं, तब भी उनकी समस्या रहती है और जब वे आर्मी से रिटायर होने के बाद फील्ड में आते हैं, तो भी उनकी समस्याएं बनी रहती हैं। अगर किसी भी सर्विस करने वाले के पीछे 'एक्स सर्विसमैन' वर्ड यूज होता है, तो वह सिर्फ आर्मी वालों के लिए होता है। इसलिए मैं एक निवेदन करना चाहता हूं कि अगर सारे देश में अनुशासन लाना है, अगर सारे देश को डिसीप्लिन्ड करना है, तो आर्मी की ट्रेनिंग सब के लिए कम से कम एक साल के लिए कम्पलसरी होनी चाहिए। यदि ऐसा हो जाए, तो मैं समझता हूं कि देश में एक नया वातावरण बनेगा, लोग अनुशासित होंगे और जहां-जहां अनुशासनहीनता की बात आ रही है, वह भी कम होगी।

            महोदय, अभी कुछ समय से जो एक नया ट्रेंड शुरू हुआ है, वह है आर्मी के लोगों द्वारा सुसाइड करना। यह बहुत ही चिन्ता का विषय है। घर से आदमी आपने देश की रक्षा करने के लिए गया है, लेकिन सूचना मिलती है कि दुश्मन की गोली से मरने की बजाय, उसने अपने आप को ही खत्म कर लिया। उसके कई कारण हैं। मैं समझता हूं कि उन कारणों की कैंसलिंग कर के, आर्मी पर्सोनैल की समस्याओं को पर्सनली सुनकर, अगर हल नहीं किया गया, तो यह टैंडेंसी बढ़ती जाएगी। उनका जॉब बहुत टफ है। वे परिवार से दूर रहते हैं। यदि परिवार में कोई समस्या आ जाए और वे छुट्टी लेना चाहें, तो उन्हें छुट्टी नहीं मिलती। इस कारण वे मैंटली इतने डिस्टर्ब हो जाते हैं कि वे अपने जीवन से ही मायूस होने लगते हैं और आर्मी में भर्ती होने से पहले जो जज्बा होता है कि मैं दुश्मन से लड़ते हुए मरूंगा, उसके बजाय वे अपना जीवन सुसाइड कर के खत्म कर देते हैं। इस ट्रेंड को भी रोकना होगा।

            महोदय, एक और बहुत बड़ी बात है, जिस पर कभी भी किसी सरकार ने ध्यान नहीं दिया। आज कितने ही प्रिजन ऑफ वॉर देश की रक्षा करते हुए, विदेशों की जेलों में बन्द हैं। लेकिन सरकार इस बात को मानने के लिए तैयार नहीं है। आप उन परिवारों से बात कीजिए। वे परिवार चिंता करते हैं कि मेरा घरवाला, मेरा भाई, मेरा बेटा, मेरा दोस्त देश की सेवा करने गया और दूसरे देशों में आज वह कैद है। लड़ाई के लिए भी और कैदियों की रिहाई के लिए भी सरकार को कदम उठाने चाहिए।

            दूसरी बात आधुनिकीकरण की भी कही गई है। मैं निवेदन करूंगा कि तीनों सेनाओं के बारे में सरकार ने काफी कुछ किया है, जैसे फ्रंट लाइन टैंक्स हैं, यूएबी मिसाइल्स हैं, न्यू इंफेंटरी वैपन्स हैं, स्टील वारशिप है, सबमैरीन्स हैं, लेकिन वायु सेना के लिए 136 मल्टी रोल कॉम्बेट, यह वेटिंग लिस्ट में है। मैं चाहता हूं कि जैसे रोज एमआईजी विमान क्रैश होते हैं और कितने ट्रेंड पायलेट्स मर रहे हैं, उन्हें बचाने के लिए भी हमें ध्यान देने की जरूरत है।

            महोदय, 440 करोड़ रुपया 22 सैनिक स्कूलों के लिए रखा गया है। जैसा मैंने पहले बताया है कि आर्मी के लिए जो फीडिंग स्टेशंस हैं, वहां सैनिक स्कूल नहीं है। मेरे संसदीय क्षेत्र में 600-700 गांव हैं, जहां आपको सैनिक से लेकर आफिसर तक आपको मिलेंगे। वहां कोई भी सैनिक स्कूल नहीं है। मैं चाहूंगा कि अगर रोपड़ में एक सैनिक स्कूल बन जाए, तो उससे हम आर्मी में जो मैन पॉवर की कमी आ रही है, उसे दूर कर पाएंगे और उनके बच्चों को हम अच्छी शिक्षा दे पाएंगे। एजुकेशन और हैल्थ के लिए हर व्यक्ति चिंतित रहता है और आर्मी के लोगों के लिए भी यही चिंता है। एक्स सर्विसमैन या आर्मी में काम करने वाले लोग हैं, उनके परिवारों के लिए जो हैल्थ सेंटर है, हमने जालंधर में एक हैल्थ सैंटर बना रखा है, लेकिन चंडीगढ़ से लेकर जालंधर तक कोई भी हास्पिटल नहीं है। चंडीगढ़ और जालंधर के बीच में आर्मी का एक नया अस्पताल खुलना चाहिए, ताकि आर्मी के एक्स सर्विसमैन उसका फायदा उठा सकें।

            एक्स सर्विसमैंस के लिए कैंटीन का प्रोविजन है, लेकिन ये कैंटींस इतनी दूरी पर हैं कि जो लोग दूरदराज या हिली एरियाज़ में रहते हैं, उनके लिए कैंटीन का लाभ लेना बहुत मुश्किल है, इस कारण अगर मोबाइल कैंटींस शुरू की जाएं, तो कैंटींस का बेनिफिट हम एक्स सर्विसमैंस को दे सकते हैं। एक चिंता की बात यह है कि जब भी कोई सरकार आती है, तो वह वायदा करती है कि हम रैंक, वन पैंशन देंगे। मैं समझता हूं कि हर आर्मीमैन के लिए कोर इश्यू है। जब भी उससे बात करो, तो वह कहता है कि वन रैंक, वन पैंशन के लिए हर सरकार कहती है, लेकिन किसी सरकार ने ऐसा नहीं किया है। यहां भी चर्चा शुरू हुई थी, जब सैशन हुआ, तब सरकार ने एक कमिटमेंट दी थी, हमारे प्रणव मुखर्जी उस समय डिफेंस मिनिस्टर थे, उनकी चेयरमैनशिप में एक कमेटी बनी थी और कहा था कि आगे इस बारे में कोई कमेटी नहीं बनेगी तथा हम वन रैंक, वन पैंशन देंगे, लेकिन अभी तक सैनिकों को वन रैंक, वन पैंशन के बारे में कुछ भी बताया नहीं गया है। वे इंतजार कर रहे हैं। आप उन्हें बहुत कुछ दे देंगे, लेकिन उनके मन में जो टीस है, वह वन रैंक, वन पैंशन के बारे में है। मैं चाहता हूं कि आप इस बारे में जल्द फैसला करें।

            महोदय, मैं एक बात कह कर अपनी बात समाप्त करूंगा। एयर बेस की बात सामने आई है, जो सिविलियंस के लिए यूज किए गए हैं। आदमपुर का एयर बेस, क्योंकि यहां कोई थ्रेट नहीं है, बहुत शांतिपूर्ण एरिया है और वहां बहुत पोटेंशियल है, सिविल एविएशन मिनिस्टरी ने अप्रूवल दी है, लेकिन डिफेंस मिनिस्टरी उस बात को नहीं मान रही है। मैं आपसे निवेदन करता हूं कि आपका आदमपुर का जो एयर बेस है, अगर उसे आपकी जो शर्तें हैं, उन्हें फुलफिल करने के बाद उस एयर बेस को सिविलियंस के लिए यूज करने दिया जाए, तो सरकार को तथा लोगों को उसका बहुत लाभ मिल सकता है।

            मैं लास्ट में कहना चाहता हूं कि 26 अप्रैल को भूतपूर्व सैनिक छठे वेतन आयोग के खिलाफ देश भर में रैली कर रहे हैं। आप उस रैली को रोकिए, क्योंकि अगर एक डिसिप्लिंड फोर्स को धरने पर बैठना पड़े, यह देश के हित में अच्छी बात नहीं है। मैं चाहूंगा कि 26 अप्रैल से पहले इस बात के बारे में कोई निर्णय ले कर इस समस्या का कोई न कोई समाधान निकाला जाए।

   

SHRI J.M. AARON RASHID (PERIYAKULAM): Hon. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I am very much thankful to you for giving me this opportunity to speak on the Demands for Grants relating to the Ministry of Defence for the year 2008-09.

The requirement is Rs. 96,000 crore where as in 2002-03 during NDA's regime it was only Rs. 56,000 crore.  I am happy to note that the introduction of Defence Procurement Policy during 2006 has achieved success in procurement activities in a transparent manner; and further process to identify some schemes under MAKE category is underway.  The Ministry of Defence, with the help of Integrated Defence Services, is also  able to identify the areas at two levels, namely, micro level examination within the three Services and macro level identification of areas involving Defence Services where the wasteful expenditure could be avoided.   It is hoped that no wasteful expenditure would be incurred on any account by the Government.

Introduction of Armed Forces Tribunal will definitely help to solve the cases in a shorter duration.  In my opinion the Coast Guards should be given more incentives.  Full protection should be given to their families and those families of Coast Guards, who are put up at a very long distance; they should be given shelter at a distance of nearly 20 to 25 kilometre near the coastal areas so that the Guards do not feel that they are away from their families, which would not lead them to go on leave for months together.   The retired Defence personnel, war widows and war disabled   should be rewarded more. Those who are willing to serve should be given a chance and the State Governments should also take care of them by providing them jobs in Police,  Vigilance and other Departments like VAO and Revenue, whichever deems fit to them.

Full medical facilities should be extended to the war widows and their families as also the retired personnel and their families.

The recommendations of the Sixth   Pay Commission should be implemented immediately. In this regard, our hon. Prime Minister Dr. Manmohan Singh has already told that the Sixth Pay Commission will be implemented immediately, for which I am very much thankful to him.

     Sir, a number of  Air Force pilots are leaving the Service and going to the private sector to get better salary. This should be stopped.

   With regard to the educational facilities to the wards of Ex Servicemen, I extend my sincere thanks to our Prime Minister for introducing Prime Minister's Merit Scholarship Scheme. This time, they are giving scholarship for 4000 children only.  But my humble suggestion is that the total number   of children and the amount should be increased.  This scheme should be extended to more persons including children of the war widows’ families and also the children of the retired personnel. Also, the NCC should be made compulsory to all, be it a boy or a girl in the schools.

 I also welcome the efforts that are taken by the Ministry of Defence for creation of a Non-Lapsable Defence Modernization Fund, and the decision to obtain utilization certificate from State Governments with regard to the disbursement of money for rehabilitation.    Creation of this head is very necessary as modernization will always be needed.

Respected Sir,   Periyakulam, is my Parliamentary constituency in Tamil Nadu, and in Theni District, the number of persons employed in Defence and allied services like Paramilitary Forces, like BSF, CISF and ITBP is quite appreciable. Theni District  and Thirunelveli District of Tamil Nadu have given more military personnel. But it pains me to see that a large number of Defence Personnel from different parts of India, including these two Districts,  are losing their lives in safeguarding our country and discharging their duties for the sake of their motherland.  I visit their homes to share their sorrow and to console them. I  always visit their homes to share their sorrows and to consol them in these Districts. The Central Government   and the Tamil Nadu Government are helping them .  I am thankful to our hon. Chief Minister for giving help.   But this is not adequate.   My humble submission is that the family of the deceased should be taken care of in such a way that the burden of sorrow is reduced within a month by giving a job immediately to a member of the deceased family.

It is very heartening to note that the number of minorities is very less in the Defence Services compared to their population in the country.   Since it is a disciplined service, more chances should be given to the minorities in Defence services and Paramilitary Forces. [r60]  They should not feel that they are neglected. It would send a right signal to the minorities since they are also part and parcel of the main stream.

            Regarding Sainik schools, there are only 22 schools all over India. The number of schools should be increased.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Rest of your speech can be laid on the Table of the House.

श्री जे.एम.आरुन रशीद  : मैं दो मिनट में अपनी बात समाप्त कर दूंगा।

Based upon the strength of the Defence employees, it would be more appropriate to open two or three schools in each district of India, particularly in the Theni District of Tamil Nadu, there is a hill station called Meghamalai.

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप अपनी बाकी की स्पीच ले कर दीजिए, मंत्री जी जवाब दे देंगे।

SHRI J.M. AARON RASHID :  Sir, transfer of class-IV employees to distant places should be avoided. These employees are low-paid employees. Their transfer to other cities in the Northern part of India will definitely affect their families. A case has come to me. An Attendant has been transferred to the Northern part of India. Where will he go and live in the Northern part of India?  He does not even know the language. It will affect their monetary capacity. Hence, this should please be avoided.

            A small country like Israel is selling defence products all over the world. Our country is considered as one among the Super Powers. Our country is being master-mind in software, IT, and the world has acknowledged our technical and modern innovations. With the recent increase in the domestic deposit level in the banks and the foreign exchange level, we should embark upon an aggressive marketing strategy and enhance export of defence products so that we are able to meet a certain percentage of import of advanced defence products.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Thank you.

SHRI J.M. AARON RASHID  : I have got one more page. It is very important.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You can lay it on the Table of the House. मैंने आपकी बात मान ली, अब आप मेरी बात मान लें और अपनी स्पीच ले कर दें।

SHRI J.M. AARON RASHID  : It is one-and-a-half page.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: That will go on record. Rest assured that will come on record.

SHRI J.M. AARON RASHID  : Thank you, Sir. I am laying rest of my speech.

*Problems faced by the Ex-Service Men-

1.        Job Reservation : Central Govt. has reserved 10 % in Group 'C and 20% in Group ;D' job's for Ex-Servicemen. But this percentage is not being adhered to in many cases of in the Public sector under takings, mainly became this scheme is not having any statutory backing. For. eg. In the recent recruitment of village Administrative Officers (VAO), Drivers and conductors in Tamilnadu there were no sufficient allotments to the Ex-Servicemen and their wards.

Even in the case of any opportunity to the Ex-Servicemen it becomes a dear reality and only the affordable people could get the benefits. Further in the case of recruitment by the private establishments it remains as an eye wash, in as much as the   *…..* This part of the Speech was laid on the Table.

continuance of an Ex-Servicemen in a job is indirectly disturbed to re-place with open market persons on lesser salary. Thus the private employers are pretending to follow the Govt, orders on recruitment of Ex-Servicemen. Therefore, provision of jobs to Ex-Servicemen is a stalemate and needs a 'STATUTORY BACKING' for a meaningful implementation of this scheme. The Ex-Servicemen are not given any preference by the private establishments and treated on par with others. Even in Govt, jobs-seniority is not observed and only the affluent juniors grab the opportunity.

2.         Medical Attendance : In case of medical facility to Ex-

Servicemen living in remote and rural areas ESCHS authorizes some private hospitals. These hospitals are more than 50 kms away and the ailing people arc struggling to visit such far away hospitals. These hospitals arc to be re-imbursed the cost by the ESCHS to the such private hospitals. When this contribution is not regularly coming to the private hospitals, the Ex-Servicemen are denied treatment For eg. The Apollo hospitals authorized by the ESCHS at Madurai is about 80 kms away from my Periakulam constituency.The ailing Ex-Servicemen or his family have to return back without medical treatment after travelling BO kms, as the Hospital is not re-imbuesed the expenses in time. This sort of ordeal to the Ex-Servicemen who sacarified for the Nation is really a matter for concern and the Govt. should take action to mitigate the sufferings of the Ex-Servicemen living m the remote and rural areas by making arrangements to provide the medical facility with in a reasonable distance (less than 50 kms) of the residences of the Ex-Servicemen.

3.                                    Supply of liquor : The Ex-Servicemen are entitled for 10 bottles and 6 bottles of liquor at a subsidized rates for higher cadre and lower cadre respectively. When there was a demand from the family prisoners for similar supply, the quota meant for the lower cadre was cut by 2 bottles and issued to the family prisoners. This is felt as an injustice done to the lower cadres and demand for the restoration of 6 bottles supply system. Thus \h& Defense department instead of making fresh quota to the family pensioners, has added fuel to the burning problems of the Ex-Servicemen. This simple issue requires immediate attention of the authorities of the Defense Department.

4.                 Family Pension : In civilian service the family pension is automatically paid to the family of the deceased pensioner. Where as in the case of Ex-Servicemen, the family has to under go various official process and procedures and has to spend years before getting their family pensions after experiencing undue hardship. Therefore, it is requested to simplify and make easy the Rules governing die family pension to the Ex-Servicemen.

5.                 Free Land ; Allotment of 5 Acres of land earmarked for Ex-Servicemen free of cost is not being implemented in its entirely in Tamilnadu whereas the Ex-Servicemen in other States are enjoying this Govt. benefits with out any problem. This scheme is provided under defense rules and accepted by the Govt. of India. *   MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, I request Prof. Ramadass. You please take only four to five minutes.

PROF. M. RAMADASS (PONDICHERRY): Sir, I am the only speaker from my Party.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Even otherwise, your Party has been given two minutes.

PROF. M. RAMADASS  : Then, I will not speak. It is such a vast subject that I do not have the ability to suppress all my ideas in two minutes.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You can speak for four or five minutes.

PROF. M. RAMADASS  : I am not a great person like you.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please continue.

PROF. M. RAMADASS  : I do not know why it happens. Every time I rise to speak, this is happening.

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आपकी पार्टी का समय ही थोड़ा होता है, इसलिए मेरी भी मजबूरी है।

PROF. M. RAMADASS : Then, better I will not speak.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please continue. I will see.

            आप शुरू तो कीजिए।

PROF. M. RAMADASS : Sir, I rise to support the Demands for Grants of the Ministry of Defence for the year 2008-09.

            I understand that there are six Demands, namely Demand No.21, 22, 23, 24, 25 and 26 for which an amount of  Rs.1,05,600 crore will be spent. This quantum jump represents an increase of 10 per cent against the budgeted estimates of 2007-08, and 14.16 per cent against the Revised Estimates of 2007-08. Defence expenditure, this year, would constitute about 14 per cent of the total expenditure and it would account for 1.99 per cent of the GDP of this country.

            Now, one remarkable feature of this Budget is that about 47 per cent of the total Defence expenditure will be on capital outlays or capital expenditure. It would be about Rs.48,000 crore that will be spent on the capital expenditure. In 2000-01, this capital expenditure was only Rs.12,000 crore. But this year we will be spending about Rs.48,000 crore, which represents four-fold increase in capital expenditure. This shows the earnestness of this UPA Government to equip the country with latest and modern sophisticated weapons for which this capital expenditure is required. This Government is showing all sincerity in equipping the country with modern equipment.

17.29 hrs.                                          (Mr. Speaker in the Chair)             The Defence Forces in this country are playing a vital role in providing security to the nation, providing protection to the smoother economic development in the country, protecting our borders and protecting our lines of communication. They are helping us to combat terrorism, militancy and also Naxalism in various parts of the country.[m61]              The handiwork of China in Tibet as well as in Arunachal Pradesh also calls for vigilance. Therefore, all these strategic concerns require lot of expenditure. Therefore, we support the demand for Rs. 1,05,600 crore required by the Ministry of Defence. Of course, there is a section of the society which feels that this amount of expenditure may not be adequate in view of the defence preparedness that is required for the country. There may be an element of truth in this statement. But, however, we have to feel that out of the resources available for other purposes, for economic development, we are giving so much of money for the defence purposes. Therefore, we should be able to utilise this amount to achieve optimal benefit for the country’s development and security.

            While supporting the Demands for Grants of the Ministry of Defence, I would also like to draw the attention of the hon. Minister to some of the essential points that are required. Maybe, because in the past years we have not been able to utilise the total amount that has been given for the Defence Budget, that this Budget has not been increased. For example, during the Tenth Five-Year Plan, out of the total expenditure given, about Rs. 60,474 crore which represents 14.46 per cent of the total budgetary outlay has not been spent sufficiently. In the last year 2007-2008, about Rs. 5,000 crore have not been spent. Therefore, we should have a proper planning process of spending the money on the capital expenditure and thereby we are able to optimise. Also, we should be able to know the ways and means of curbing wasteful expenditure in the Defence Forces so that all the money that has been saved can be used profitably for modernisation of resources.

            Sir, today the country needs to have a greater capability through sophisticated equipment. Now a question is raised whether India should be self-reliant in the defence production. Naturally, we have to be, because we cannot depend on the import substitution of these equipments for the simple reason that our import bill will go up. Secondly, in case of ourselves producing these goods and services, the amount of money that we are going to spend will circulate within the economy and we will be able to provide employment opportunities and also produce those equipments which are required for the country.

MR. SPEAKER : Please conclude.

PROF. M. RAMADASS : Therefore, self-sufficiency in defence production should be a priority area for the Government. For this purpose we have to develop our research capabilities. We say that the country has the third largest reservoir of technical and scientific manpower. We do not know why we should not be able to produce this. If money is a constraint, we can even go in for increasing the foreign direct investment in defence sector. At present 26 per cent cap is there. We can raise it to 49 per cent so that we get both investment resources as well as the technology resources.

            Sir, there is a deficiency of officers in the Armed Forces. About 24 per cent is the shortage and this must be filled up by various methods that the Government has already done. The Government also should come out with an outcome budget. Although the outcome budget is exempted for the Ministry of Defence, since we are going to spend more than Rs. one lakh crore we should be able to find ways and means of preparing this outcome Budget and make all the operations of the defence forces transparent to the people. We should upgrade the training curriculum and give more orientation towards the service quality in the education rather than the academic orientation.

            There is an unrest among the Armed Forces with respect to the recommendations of the Sixth Pay Commission and this unrest must be addressed by the hon. Minister. Welfare of ex-servicemen should also be taken into account. It is heartening to note that the hon. Minister of Finance is going to employ about one to two lakh of ex-servicemen in the banking sector for financial inclusion activities. Likewise, we should be able to permit the lateral entry of ex-servicemen in the paramilitary forces so that it can be a source of employment.

            The educational facilities to the wards of ex-servicemen must be taken care of. In order to provide scholarship to them, the Ministry itself should create a fund through which it should be able to provide the educational facilities to them. Five per cent of the seats in the educational institutions should be earmarked for the children of the ex-servicemen.

            In each and every State there should be a Sainik School so that they will be able to provide the leadership for the defence of the country.

            I would raise two important local issues here. The fishermen in Tamil Nadu venture into the sea and they go unmindfully into the hands of the Sri Lankan borders where they are caught and they are captured by the Sri Lankan Army and Navy. [k62]             There are lot of hardships which are being faced by them and there are frequent incidents of such kind. I would request the hon. Minister of Defence that the coastal security in the Indo-Sri Lankan border must be strengthened and our fishermen must be guarded against falling in the hands of the Sri Lankan forces. We had given Kutchatheevu in the larger interest and this has to be retrieved now. The time has come when we have to retrieve it in the interest of the livelihood of the fishermen there.

            In Sri Lanka, today we find that a large number of atrocities are being committed against the Tamils. We should be able to protect them. Under no circumstance, the Government of India should supply any equipment to the Government of Sri Lanka which would be used in the offensive against Sri Lankan Tamils. They are our own people and we should be able to protect them. The Ministry of Defence should not be a  party to any such thing being done against them.

            Finally, more than defending the country, we should be able to bring about a harmonious relationship with all our neighbours because the harmonious relationship is the surest way of defending the country rather than depending on our equipment. Our peace process with all the neighbouring countries is an imperative need and towards that end, the Ministry of Defence should work.

MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, we have exhausted the time allotted for discussion. I have got six more names. If each hon. Member takes three minutes, I can accommodate. Otherwise, I will call the hon. Minister.

श्री भानु प्रताप सिंह वर्मा (जालौन): महोदय, आपने मुझे रक्षा विभाग की अनुदानों की मांगों पर हो रही चर्चा में बोलने का अवसर दिया, इसके लिए मैं आपको धन्यवाद देता हूं।

            महोदय, रक्षा विभाग, हमारे देश का एक बहुत महत्वपूर्ण विभाग है।  हम अच्छी तरह से जानते हैं कि अगर सीमा पर जवान, खेत पर किसान और देश के अंदर विज्ञान, ये तीनों सजग रहें तो निश्चित रूप से हमारा देश ताकतवर रहेगा। हमारे देश के एक महान कूटनीतिज्ञ चाणक्य ने कहा है कि अगर आपको शांति से जीना है तो 24 घण्टे युद्ध के लिए तैयार रहो। जो देश युद्ध के लिए तैयार रहते हैं, वे ही शांति से जी सकते हैं।  हम देखते हैं कि हमारे देश के सैनिकों के मजबूत कंधों पर ही यह भार है।  आज छठे वेतन आयोग ने जो सिफारिशें दी हैं, उनसे सेना के लोग खुश नहीं हैं और जैसा कि अभी खन्ना जी ने कहा, 26 अप्रैल को देश भर में अनशन पर बैठेंगे और आंदोलन करेंगे।  निश्चित ही हमें इसकी चिंता करनी चाहिए कि वे आंदोलन न करें। जो देश की रक्षार्थ अपने प्राणों की आहूति देते हैं, 24 घंटे अपने सीने पर गोली खाने के लिए वे सीमा पर खड़े रहते हैं, उनको इतना वेतन मिलना ही चाहिए जिससे उनका व उनके परिवार का भरण-पोषण हो सके। आर्मी का जवान जब 17 साल की नौकरी के बाद रिटायर होकर अपने घर पहुंचता है, तो उसे जो पेंशन मिलती है, उससे उसका गुजारा नहीं हो पाता है। निश्चित ही केन्द्र सरकार को इसकी चिंता करनी चाहिए। चाहे प्राइवेट सेक्टर हो या गवर्नमेंट सेक्टर हो, जहां भी उचित हो, जहां भी वैकेंसीज निकलें, ऐसे लोगों को नौकरी देनी चाहिए।यदि उन्हें जगह नहीं मिलती तो वे लोग एक प्रकार से बेकार रहते हैं। हम लोग देहात में देखते हैं, मेरे संसदीय क्षेत्र जालौन में माधोगढ़ विधान सभा क्षेत्र है। वहां से हजारों लोग सेना में भर्ती हैं। जब उनमें से कई लोग रिटायर होकर घर आते हैं तो हमने देखा है कि वे या तो घर बैठे रहते हैं या फिर खेती-बाड़ी करते हैं। प्रदेश सरकारों को यहां से निर्देश जाना चाहिए कि सेना के लोग जब रिटायर होकर घर आते हैं, तो उन्हें आर्म का लाइसेंस देना चाहिए। अगर ऐसा होगा तो उन्हें सिविल में गार्ड वगैरह की नौकरी आसानी से मिल जाएगी और वे अच्छा वेतन भी प्राप्त कर सकेंगे।

            मेरे क्षेत्र में सैनिकों के बच्चों के लिए एक सैनिक विद्यालय है। इन विद्यालयों की देखरेख का जिम्मा राज्य सरकार पर होता है। मैं चाहता हूं कि केन्द्र सरकार इन सैनिक विद्यालयों का जो खर्च इत्यादि प्रबंध है, वह अपने हाथ में ले। इसके अलावा केन्द्र सरकार को हर साल किसी न किसी राज्य में एक सैनिक विद्यालय खोलना चाहिए। अगर सब जगह ये विद्यालय खुल जाएंगे तो सैनिकों के बच्चों को आसानी से इनमें दाखिला मिल सकेगा और वे भी अच्छी शिक्षा प्राप्त कर सकेंगे।

MR. SPEAKER: You have raised very good points, but I am sorry that I am asking you to conclude as there is no time left.

श्री भानु प्रताप सिंह वर्मा : एनसीसी में हायर सेकंडरी से लेकर बीए तक के विद्यार्थियों को ट्रेनिंग दी जाती है। जिन छात्रों ने सी सर्टिफिकेट ले लिया है, उन्हें सेना में तुंत ले लेना चाहिए। हमने देखा है कि ऐसे कई छात्र, जिन्होंने एनसीसी में सी सर्टिफिकेट लिया है, वे घर पर काम कर रहे हैं। इसलिए एनसीसी के सी सर्टिफिकेट वाले छात्रों को प्राथमिकता के आधार पर सेना में भर्ती करना चाहिए।

अध्यक्ष महोदय: आपने अच्छे सुझाव दिए हैं, लेकिन समय कम है इसलिए संक्षेप में अपनी बात समाप्त करें।

श्री भानु प्रताप सिंह वर्मा  : हमारे क्षेत्र झांसी में छावनी इलाका है। आज की स्थिति में उस एरिया के अंदर प्राइवेट लोगों द्वारा जमीन बेची जा रही है। जबकि कैंटोनमेंट एरिया के अंतर्गत आने वाली जमीन को वहां के नियमों के अनुसार अनुमति मिलने पर ही बेचा जा सकता है। इसलिए आप उसकी जांच कराएं और जो गलत रजिस्ट्रीज़ हुई हैं, उन्हें तत्काल प्रभाव से निरस्त करना चाहिए। मैं इस सम्बन्ध में मंत्री जी से मिल भी चुका हूं इसलिए आप इसे अवश्य देखें और जो गलत रजिस्ट्रीज़ हुई हैं, उन्हें कैंसिल कराने का काम करें।

MR. SPEAKER: I would like to compliment you for your speech as you have made very good suggestions. But I am sorry that I could not give you more time to speak. Perhaps, it could be done next time.

            The next speaker is Dr. Karan Singh Yadav. Please try to conclude within four minutes.

डॉ. करण सिंह यादव (अलवर): अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं बिंदुओं में ही अपनी बात कहूंगा। देश की रक्षा करने वाले जवानों के इस विभाग की अनुदानों की मांगों पर हम चर्चा कर रहे हैं। रक्षा के अलावा हमारे जवान देश में अन्य क्षेत्रों में भी काम करते हैं। चाहे देश में कोई आतंकवादी गतिविधि हो, चाहे समुद्र में कोई व्यक्ति डूब रहा हो या किसी होल में कोई प्रिंस घुस जाए, उसे निकालने की बात हो, आर्मी को सदा याद किया जाता है। आज देश में ऐसा वातावरण हो गया है कि आर्मी में ऑफिसर रैंक के कई पद खाली पड़े हैं, क्योंकि कोई फौज में जाना नहीं चाहता है। पहले लोग खुशी-खुशी फौज में भर्ती होते थे। आज की तारीख में आर्मी में 11,000 से ज्यादा पद ऑफिसर्स के खाली पड़े हैं। इस पर गहराई से चिंतन करने की जरूरत है कि ऐसा क्या किया जाए जिससे देश के नौजवान आर्मी में अपना कैरियर बनाएं। इस बारे में कई कमेटीज भी बनी हैं, कई मंत्रणाएं भी हुई हैं। मेरा ऐसा मानना है कि जब भी यह मामला ब्यूरोक्रेसी और हमारे सिविल सर्विस के अधिकारियों के पास जाता है, वे आर्मी और सिविल दोनों को इक्वेट कर लेते हैं। [R63]  उन्हें लगता है कि फौज के आदमी को अगर कोई ज्यादा सुविधा दे दी, उसकी पैंशन के अंदर कोई ज्यादा बैनिफिट दे दिये, तो थोड़े दिन के बाद हमारे सिविल के लोग भी उसी तरह से फायदे मांगने लगेंगे। मैं समझता हूं कि सिविल से उन्हें अलग करना पड़ेगा और जो पुरानी रिक्मेंडेशन है कि मिडिल लेवल के आर्मी अफसर्स को जो आईएएस, आईपीएस एग्जाम्स में बैठने की छूट दी जाती थी, लेकिन today, the Department of Personnel and Training does not allow them to appear in IAS and IPS examinations. They do not have access to get into other lateral positions in various Government services and other areas. Those things need to be taken care of.

            The other thing that I want to mention is about ‘One Rank, One Pension’. This demand has been made time and again by the people. This has been mentioned in the Common Minimum Programme also. On the 26th of this month, a large number of ex-Army people are going to demonstrate all over the country and also at the India Gate. I think it is time that something concrete is done about it. Few measures were taken at the lower level, that is, Sepoy and Havaldar, and the officers are a bit comfortable, but the middle-ranking officers in the Army, the non-commissioned officers have not got that benefit. I think this needs to be taken care of.

            In the pre-Independence era, the Army units were named as Jat Regiment, Sikh Regiment, Gorkha Regiment, Maratha Regiment, Gujjar Regiment, Dogra Regiment and what not. The Ahirs were a valiant community; they have always been in the forefront in the Army positions. Rao Tularam, the warrior from Haryana was one who fought against the Britishers. Probably, during those times, the Britishers raised all community regiments, but did not allow an Ahir Regiment to be raised. I know that it might be difficult at this time to raise a regiment in the name of the community, but it can always be raised in the name of the area. We have this region known as ‘Ahirwal’ area which falls partly in Rajasthan and partly in Haryana. Hence, either an Ahir Regiment or an Ahirwal Regiment should be raised in the Army.

            I would also like to make a request that the Armed Forces Medical Corps needs to be strengthened up. We have one of the best establishments in the form of Armed Forces Medical College in Pune; we have a very good establishment of Research and Referral Hospitals in the Cantonment areas. There are good super-specialty doctors, good neurologists, and good respiratory physicians. Hon. Speaker, Sir, you have access to the treatment in Army’s RR Hospitals and you know how good they are. It is these hospitals which need to be strengthened. In fact, Delhi needs an Armed Forces Medical College very much. In fact, we have just one College in Pune. I think, a proposal is pending somewhere. It is time that we think about it and create another good institution like that. Pune Medical College is a great institution and if a similar institution can be established here in Delhi or in some part of North India, it will be good. If land is a problem, my own constituency, Alwar is very close-by, nearby. There is a big Army establishment, and there is plenty of land available. The hon. Minister could consider establishing it in that area.

            I come from an area which has a large number of serving Army people, and there are also a large number of martyrs of China War or Pakistan War; and also more than two dozens martyrs of Kargil War. I think, in my area, we need one or two ECHS dispensaries. That is my personal request. We have a hospital in Alwar which is an Army hospital. It needs to be strengthened; the building needs to be renovated; and more specialists need to be engaged in the Alwar Army Hospital.

MR. SPEAKER: Your area and my area.

DR. KARAN SINGH YADAV :  You have a certain scheme through which you do educational work for the dependents of the Army people. In my area, there is a constituency called ‘Behrod’ where the sons and daughters of a large number of Army personnel are studying. If you have a provision, I would request you for the construction of a Girls’ Hostel in Behrod Sub-Division where a large number of girl students are studying. The daughters of working Army personnel cannot go and live at far off places. If there is a provision, and I know that there is some Budget allocation for such a thing, then money should be allocated for that purpose.

            With these few words, I thank you, hon. Speaker, Sir, for giving me the time.

 

MR. SPEAKER: Well, I can vouch for the excellence of the Army Hospital; I agree with you.[r64]      श्रीमती जयाबहन बी. ठक्कर (वडोदरा): अध्यक्ष महोदय, आपने मुझे समय दिया, इसके लिए मैं आपका धन्यवाद करती हूं। किसी भी देश का गौरव उसकी रक्षा शक्ति है। भारत माता की दिन-रात रक्षा करने वाले वायु सेना, जल सेना, थल सेना के अफसर और सैनिक गौरव के समान है। इस बार एक लाख पांच हजार छह सौ करोड़ रुपयों का रक्षा बजट में एलोकेशन हुआ है, वह हमारी जीडीपी का दो प्रतिशत है। जबकि हमारे पड़ोसी देश पाकिस्तान और चीन अपनी जीडीपी का पांच प्रतिशत और सात प्रतिशत तक रक्षा बजट में एलोकेशन करते हैं। हम भी इस बात पर जोर दें, ध्यान भी दें और मैं सरकार से अपील करना चाहूंगी कि हमारे सैन्य बल के सैनिक, जो देश की सेवा कर रहे हैं, उन्हें और ज्यादा बल देने के लिए तथा उनकी सुविधाओं को और ज्यादा बढ़ाने के लिए हमें सोचना चाहिए।

            अभी छठे वेतन आयोग की कुछ बातें चौंकाने वाली सामने आ रही हैं कि हमारे अधिकारी और सैनिक, जो दिन-रात देश की सेवा कर रहे हैं, वे कहीं न कहीं वेतन आयोग की सिफारिशों से नाराज हैं। उत्कृष्ठ सेवा करने वाले, अनुशासन में रहने वाले लोग क्यों नाराज हैं, इस पर सरकार जरूर ध्यान दे, क्योंकि छठे वेतन आयोग की अनुशंसाओं पर फोर्स के लोगों ने नाराजगी जताई, जो कभी शिकायत नहीं करते हैं, कभी बिना बात बोलते नहीं हैं। उनकी नाराजगी के प्रति ध्यान दे कर, इस गंभीर मामले को सुलझाने का प्रयत्न करें, क्योंकि पहले ही हम इन व्यवस्थाओं को, नौकरियों को अधिक आकर्षक बनाने में कहीं-न-कहीं चूक गए हैं। आज आईटी क्षेत्र में काम करने वाले छोटे-छोटे बच्चे भी बहुत आकर्षक वेतन पाते हैं, मान-सम्मान भी पाते हैं, लेकिन देश की रक्षा में दिन-रात एक करने वाले, अनुकूल और प्रतिकूल परिस्थितियों में रहने वाले भारत माता की सेवा में उत्कृष्ठ योगदान देने वाले लोगों को हम धन, मान-सम्मान और वेतन नहीं दे पा रहे हैं। इस बात पर सरकार ध्यान जरूर दे और कोई न कोई हल जरूर निकाले।

            मैं तीसरी बात सुझाव के तौर पर आर्डिनेंस फैक्ट्रियों के बारे में कहना चाहती हूं कि अगर दुनिया के साथ कदम से कदम मिला कर चलना है, तो जरूरी है कि उनके फंक्शन और मनेजमैंट में उन्हें ग्रेटर आटोनोमी और फलेक्सिबिलिटी दें। इससे भारत वर्ष की जो ताकत है कि हम आत्मनिर्भर बन सकते हैं, उसे और मजबूत किया जा सकता है। आर्डिनेंस फैक्ट्रियों को वायब्रेंट और एफिशियेंट बनाने के लिए जो जरूरत है, उसे कोई कम्पनी बना कर या ज्वायंट वेंचर के रूप में उन्हें ताकत देनी चाहिए।

            हमारे सैन्य बल में बहुत जल्दी रिटायरमेंट है, ये उनकी कार्यभार की ही अनुशंसा है, लेकिन रिटायर हुए लोगों को हम अपनी सीमा सुरक्षा में, जैसे बहुत से राज्यों में आतंकवाद, उग्रवाद का सामना कर रहे हैं, उन पैरामिलट्री फोर्सिस में कैसे इन्हें काम पर लगा सकते हैं। मैंने जो आंकड़े देखें हैं, मैं उनमें नहीं जाती हूं, लेकिन बहुत कम मात्रा में हमारे रिटायर लोगों को हम इस प्रकार की सेवाओं में लगा सकते हैं। क्यों न सरकार सोचे की एक इस प्रकार की व्यवस्था बनाई जाए, जिनमें रिटायर लोगों के लिए कौन सी व्यवस्थाएं हो सकती हैं, जिनसे वे अपने लिए कुछ कर सकें। आज वे लोग रिटायर होने के बाद मारे-मारे फिरते हैं।[R65]  कहीं न कहीं रोड़ टोल प्लाजा पर अपनी शक्तियों को लगाते हैं। ऐसे प्रदेश जो सीमाओं से सटे हैं, उनको मुश्किलों का सामना करना पड़ता है।  कोस्टल गार्ड के ऊपर एलोकेशन कम हो रहा है। उसे बढ़ाना चाहिए। उन्हें जो संसाधन फोर्स के रूप में दिए जाते हैं, उसे बढ़ा कर हमें सीमा की रक्षा की तरफ ध्यान देना चाहिए।             

MR. SPEAKER:  I am sorry for not being able to give more time, Shrimati Jayaben B. Thakkar.

अध्यक्ष महोदयः  लाल सिंह जी, आपको बोलने के लिए चार मिनट दिए जाते हैं। आप बहुत ब्रीफ में टू दी प्वाइंट बोल सकते हैं।

चौधरी लाल सिंह (उधमपुर): अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं आपकी इजाजत से रक्षा मंत्रालय की अनुदानों की मांगों के समर्थन में बोलने के लिए खड़ा हुआ हूं। आर्मी देश की शान है। उसने आज से नहीं बल्कि सदियों से कुर्बानी दी है। उन्होंने कभी अपने परिवार के बारे में नहीं सोचा है। हमेशा देश के लिए कुर्बानी दी है। इसलिए उनकी सहूलियतों की तरफ ध्यान देना बहुत जरूरी है। खास तौर पर बहुत दिनों से वन रैंक वन पैंशन का मामला पैडिंग पड़ा है। हम इसे सैट नहीं कर पाए हैं। इस पर खास ध्यान देने की जरूरत है। आप जानते हैं कि हमारे क्षेत्र के डोगरा लोगों ने देश के लिए बड़ी कुर्बानियां दी हैं। सेना ने देश का फ्रंट बढ़ाया है और हम तिब्बत और खुर्द तक पहुंचे। हमारे बहादुरों ने बड़ी जंगें लड़ी हैं। जंग लड़ने के बाद सरहदें बनी हैं। हमारा कुछ हिस्सा पाकिस्तान और चीन के पास चला गया है। यहां कहा गया कि इसमें फलां लोगों की मैजोरटी कम है, फलां की ज्यादा है। इसमें धर्म तक की बातें कही गई हैं। जो देश की प्राथमिकताएं हैं, हमें उनकी तरफ ध्यान देना चाहिए। आर्मी में लोग देश की सेवा करने के लिए जाते हैं। ऑफिसर्स की पोस्टें क्यों खाली पड़ी हैं? आज देश के लिए कुर्बानी देने का जज्बा कम होता जा रहा है क्योंकि उसमें पैसा इनवॉल्व हो गया है। मैं एक छोटी सी बात सुनाना चाहता हूं। महाराज गुलाब सिंह जी के समय की बात है। जब जंग चल रही थी तो हमारे जनरल भूप सिंह आगे चल रहे थे। जनरल को महाराज खुद वर्दी देते थे। वे कपड़े दिए काफी दिन हो गए हैं। वे जंग लड़ रहे थे। जनरल के टोटली कपड़े फट जाते हैं और जब महाराज ने उनकी कंडिशन देखी तो कहा कि क्या दशा बना कर रखी है, उसने तलवार निकाल कर दिखायी जिसे जंग नहीं लगा था, ढाल दिखायी, जिस में कुछ नहीं था। वह खुश हुए और कहा कि जो अच्छी धन-दौलत इकट्ठी की है, इसमें से थोड़ी लेकर  घर जाओ, उसने कहा कि नहीं, हमारे देश को, हमारी स्टेट को, हमारे रजवाड़ों को इस समय अच्छे हथियार और घोड़ों की जरूरत है, लिहाजा मुझे कुछ नहीं चाहिए, शक्कर, गुड़, चने दे दो, मैं घर से वापस आ जाऊंगा। सवाल देशभक्ति पैदा करने का है लेकिन आज उसमें बड़ी कमी आ रही है। हिली एरियाज का तीन परसेंट का कोटा होता था चाहे गढ़वाली हों, डोगरा हो, दूसरे लोग हों, इसमें कोई कास्ट का सवाल नहीं है। अंग्रेजों के खिलाफ अगर किसी ने पहली बार बगावत की थी तो गढ़वाल राइफल्स और इन लोगों ने की थी। इसलिए इन लोगों की जो रिजर्वेशन तीन परसेंट थी, उसे दोबारा बहाल करना चाहिए। आर्मी में भर्ती होने के लिए उनका कद पांच फुट चार इंच रखा गया था। उन्हें रिलैक्सेशन होती थी। गोरखा को पिन्नी से नापा जाता था। ये चीजें अब रह गई हैं। हमारे यहां के तीन जिले कठुआ, सांबा और जम्मू में अधिकतम लोग आर्मी में सर्विस करते हैं।

 

18.00 hrs.   पूरी स्टेट ने इन डिस्ट्रिक्ट्स में कानून बना दिया और इनकी तरफ से ऑर्डर आया है कि इन तीनों डिस्ट्रिक्ट्स में मैट्रिक क्लास का सिपाही भर्ती होगा और बाकी जगह आठवीं पास होगा जबकि मैक्सिमम आर्मी परसन्स इन तीन डिस्ट्रिक्ट्स में हैं। मैं कहना चाहता हूं कानून बनाते समय ध्यान रखिए और लोगों को इग्नोर मत कीजिए।

            अंत में मेरा सब्मिशन है कि हमारा एरिया बॉर्डर वाला है, यहां जो डिच बनाई गई है और जो जमीन का कम्पेनसेशन है उसमें मैक्सिमम लोग रह गए हैं। यहां एक ब्रिज सैंक्शन हुआ है, यह बहुत बड़ा ब्रिज है जिसका लिंक पंजाब, हिमाचल प्रदेश, जम्मू-कश्मीर और वसौली बनीभदवाकिश्तवाड़ की तरफ जाएगा। मैं मंत्री महोदय से कहना चाहूंगा कि प्रेस्टीजिएस रोड है, यह सिक्योरिटी के लिहाज से बननी बहुत जरूरी है। इस पर किश्तवाड़ कैंटोनमेंट को सैटल करना है, 98 परसेंट जमीन लोगों ने दे दी है इसलिए मेरे कहने का मकसद है कि वहां इसे बना दीजिए और जल्दी इसका इनऑग्रेशन कर दीजिए।

MR. SPEAKER: It is 6.00 o’clock now. The House will continue until the business for the day is over.

अध्यक्ष महोदय : श्री रिजुजी, आपकी पार्टी का निर्धारित टाइम खत्म हो गया है।   Since you come from North-East, I would give you four minutes to speak.

SHRI KIREN RIJIJU (ARUNACHAL WEST): I would wish to speak for 15 minutes but it is not possible now.

MR. SPEAKER: Your name is last in the list of speakers from your Party.  What can I do?

SHRI KIREN RIJIJU : First of all, I rise here to support the Demands for Grants of the Ministry of Defence.  I would like to make a few suggestions.

            Any Defence establishment is based on its infrastructural capability.  If we really look at the infrastructure in the border areas, it is in a very-very pathetic condition.  When the hon. Defence Minister visited the border areas facilities were created for him but when he went back those facilities do not remain with the jawans.  You should ensure that the facilities that you see during your visit remain throughout the year, particularly during the winter season when there is heavy snow fall. Our Himalayan region, right from Siachin to Arunachal Pradesh is full of high mountains, less oxygen and heavy snow fall.

I must compliment and put it on record that the Minister of State of the Ministry of Defence Shri Pallam Raju, who is looking after BRO, is a very effective Minister.  He interacted with the local leaders, with me, with people there very encouragingly.  After his visit there was a lot of encouragement and the work also picked up. Last week only I visited those areas and complimented the BRO officers of VERTAK and BRTF 14, 44, 756.  They have done a commendable job.  I am sorry I cannot now compliment the hon. Defence Minister because he has not yet invited me or not yet has shown me the results.  Maybe, in future I will compliment him.

Shri Jaswant Singh Rawat, who was killed in 1962 war, was given Mahavir Chakra.  I would request the Ministry to review this and give him the highest gallantry award, the Param Veer Chakra because if you see the role he had played during the war, you will say that he deserves to get the Param Veer Chakra.  I wish to put this on record.

 My State, Arunachal Pradesh does not have even one Sainik School.  Sainik School is an important institution where we produce the future leaders of Indian Army.  I would request the hon. Minister to immediately sanction a Sainik School in my State.

Finally, I would like to invite all the hon. Members of this House to the border areas.  Please visit the border areas.  Once you are there in the border areas you will understand what nationalism is. You do not see nationalism in a city like Delhi.  When you go to the border areas and interact with the Army people, you know what nationalism is.  You felt nationalism only at the time of Kargil.

MR. SPEAKER: You mean patriotism! SHRI KIREN RIJIJU (ARUNACHAL WEST):  Yes, nationalism and patriotism both.  You will get the sense of nationalism and patriotism only when you visit and see the condition of our armed people, including the people living in the border areas.[R66]              Finally, there should be civil-military cooperation.  It is very important.  At times, there are conflicts between them.  I have seen some incidents in my State also.  The military and the civil people were at conflict and even the local people were involved.  The civil-military cooperation must be given a lot of importance and it must be given a new dimension.  I know military people organise AIDS camps, medicinal camps, health melas and all these things need to be enhanced further so that the Indian Army continues to win the hearts of the people, particularly the people of the border areas.

            With these words, I support the Demands for Grants for this Ministry.

                                                                                                               

THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (SHRI A.K. ANTONY): Hon. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I would like to express my thanks on behalf of the Armed Forces and also our scientists and those civilians who are working in the various defence establishments.  The all round and unanimous support extended by this House for the cause of our Defence as well as for the welfare of those people who are working in the various wings of Defence would give them encouragement.  Pay and equipment are all important but for the Armed Forces and scientists, I feel more than anything else, the support of the people and the countrymen gives more encouragement and increases the morale. That support is reflected in the unanimous support and appreciation extended by all the Members of this august House.

MR. SPEAKER: The Chair also joins wholeheartedly.

SHRI A.K. ANTONY:  The Chair is always supportive of Armed Forces.

            This year the allocation for Defence is Rs.1,05,600 crore.  I also feel in the emerging scenario this amount may not be enough but considering the present day availability of funds, the Government has given a reasonable amount for the Defence.  The Finance Minister declared in the House itself that if a need arises, he will provide more funds for the Armed Forces.

            The Defence includes our Armed Forces and their equipment but they are not alone.  Various Defence PSUs and ordnance factories are also part of Defence.  Along with that, our scientists and medical services are also part of Defence.  Apart from this official force, the territorial army and NCC are our reserve forces at times of crisis.  According to us, they are also part of Defence.  Even though, now the ex-servicemen are not officially part of Defence but at times we may need them in future.  So, we cannot ignore the aspirations of ex-servicemen also.

            All the speakers have unanimously expressed their support for the welfare of our Armed Forces and especially there is an all round concern about the recent recommendations of the Pay Commission. [R67]              Sir, luckily, before this discussion started, outside Parliament House, our hon. Prime Minister himself expressed his concern and sympathy to the Armed Forces and he also declared that Government will do its best to give a fair deal to the Armed Forces. Considering the work of other Services in the Government, the Army needs special attention. Out of ll,00,000 Army personnel, about 9,00,000 are persons below the rank of officers (PBOR). They are retiring after 17 years of service. They are not retiring after 30 years of service voluntarily, but after 17 years they are compulsorily made to retire from Service and this is because of our own stipulations. After 17 years means, these people are retiring at the age of 35 years, or 38 years or maximum at the age of 40 years. Their plight is miserable. The PBORs, the Army people and scientists and PSU people, everybody needs more support from all of us. Luckily, today, all of you, without any reservation stated your support for them. I am sure, the Committee appointed by the Government under the Cabinet Secretary will look into the anomalies of the Pay Commission. They will give a serious thought to the opinion expressed by the Members in the House.

            Sir, before I react to some of the suggestions and criticisms of the hon. Members, I would like to mention a few salient features in the Ministry of Defence. All of you have expressed your concern about the Sixth Pay Commission and the Government also has expressed their willingness to find a solution to the anomalies. That is a commitment by all of us. I would like to inform the House that the present Government has always tried to take care of the welfare of our Armed Forces. After the UPA Government took over, we took many decisions that will improve the living conditions and service conditions of the Armed Forces. After our Government took over we took a decision that all officers including those in the Short Service Commission are now eligible to hold substantive rank of Captain, Major and Lieutenant Colonel after 2 years, 6 years and 13 years of reckonable service respectively.  Government also has issued orders to make the tenure of the Short Service Commission officers extendable to 14 years. A total number of 750 posts of Lieutenant Colonel have been upgraded to Colonel.

            Sir, the Parliament passed the Tribunal Bill in the last Session. After about 22 years of anxiety we have been able to draft a somewhat reasonable Bill and I am glad to say that within the next few months we will be able to operationalise the provisions as contained in the Armed Forces Tribunal Act. A number of cases in the High Courts and the Supreme Court are increasing. Nearly, 14,000 cases are pending in the courts. Once the Tribunals are operationalised, I am sure there will be a solution to these pending cases and also in future, the Armed Forces will be able to get redressal of their grievances at the earliest in a fair manner.

MR. SPEAKER: Please do not allow too many lawyers there.

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: This Lok Sabha passed the Cantonment Board Bill. This has become an Act now. For the first time, majority of the members of the Boards would be elected and also people belonging to the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe communities and women also are going to get reservation. Elections to these Boards are going to take place next month. In 59 cantonments we are going to have elections.  [R68]  We have also enhanced the high altitude allowance for all those Army jawans serving in Siachen, Nathu La and other difficult areas as hon Members have suggested.  We have changed the leave policy of the Service personnel.   Now the Army people can get leave thrice a year.  Earlier, it was only twice a year. 

We have one more additional free railway warrant to the Army men working in the border areas and other distant areas.  A chartered flight is provided for movement of troops in selected routes in J&K and North-East.  And 50 new passenger reservation centres has been newly given with the help of my hon. colleague, the Railway Minister.  The number of seats reserved for the Defence personnel is increased in 20 fast moving trains and the major decision is, restriction of 1450 kilometres for availing all-India LTC is removed. These are minor things but these are all long pending demands for the Service personnel who are working in far-flung areas.  It is not only with the Pay Commission but from the beginning, this Government is trying to improve the living and service conditions of the Armed Forces.  

We have also decided to construct nearly two lakh residential quarters for the Armed Forces in a four-phased manner.  The first phase is almost completed.  In 2009, the first phase will be over.  Planning for the second phase has already been started.  Within five or ten years, we will be able to give two lakh more quarters to the Armed Forces.  That will help them to a certain extent to find a solution to family problems. 

            As regards one-rank-one-pension scheme, it is not accepted by any Pay Commission. But our Government, last time, improved the pension benefit to some extent and I am sure the Committee, under the Cabinet Secretary, will try to find a more fair solution to the pension problem.

            Regarding air safety, in the past, accidents had been a common thing. In the last few years, because of the consistent effort of the Air Force, accident rate has come down substantially.  In 2004-05, 17 accidents took place and now, it has come down to nine.  So, there is substantial reduction in the rate of accidents. The serviceability of aircraft has increased.   Now, it is 70 to 80 per cent.   A few years back, it was 50 per cent only.  So, improvement is there in these areas in the Air Force. 

            Many hon. Members were expressing anxiety about the depleting force level in the Air Force.  I am glad to inform the House that Government took certain important decisions.  One decision is to have another addition of 140 Sukhoi aircraft to the Indian Air Force. Now, already we have issued RFPs for 126 multi-role combat aircraft.  We have already entered into inter-Governmental agreement with Russia for the production of the fifth.generation aircraft. 

SHRI K.S. RAO (ELURU) :  Is it in India?

SHRI A.K. ANTONY:  It is 50 per cent in India and 50 per cent there.  So, as far production and procurement are concerned, instead of decline in the Force level, I am sure, within a few years, we will be able to restore the force level of the Air Force.  In the Army also, wherever possible, we are trying to produce items in our country.  Otherwise, whenever Army wants, we are importing. There is no alternative. 

For the Navy also, through our own PSUs and through Indian defence industries, we are trying to give them most modern equipment.  But our shipyards are not modernised.  So, we have to still depend on foreign suppliers. So, modernisation of the Army, the Navy and the Air Force is one of the top most priorities for the present Government.  This year’s allocation for modernisation is the highest one for the Armed Forces.  We have provided Rs. 37,482 crore for the modernisation of the Armed Forces.  So, this Government is giving top most priority for the modernisation of Armed Forces. 

            For modernisation, the main instrument is our own defence PSUs.  I can inform the House with pride that all our eight defence PSUs are running on profit. Out of those, two defence PSUs, HAL and BEL, are Navratna Companies.  Out of 39 ordnance factories, most of them are running on profit. So, we have a sound defence production sector in India. 

            Many hon. Members were voicing their concerns about indigenisation.  Indigenisation can come through only if we have a strong industrial base in our country. One of the bases is our defence PSUs. The other is the ordnance factories. Along with that, we are now allowing private sector participation in the defence sector.  Participation of the private sector means, 100 per cent participation of the Indian private sector.  Along with that, FDI is also allowed in the defence sector.  The FDI is not to the extent of 49 per cent, but to the extent of 26 per cent only. 

If our defence industries want to improve their efficiency, they need strong R&D support.  The DRDO is the main organisation which is providing that R&D.  Our first Prime Minister, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru was the founder of the DRDO.  It is the fiftieth year of the inception of the DRDO.  There may be some failures here and there.  But the DRDO, over the years has produced many world class equipment. It has given technology to our defence PSUS, ordnance factories and private sector also to produce many world class defence equipment.  Recently, in several areas the DRDO is showing special capabilities, especially in the area of missiles.  In the last six months, one by one, it has shown only success stories. 

Agni III Missile is the latest one.  It was successfully launched on 12th April, 2007. It was a breakthrough for India. As regards Akash Missiles, earlier the Air Force was sceptical about this Missile.  But now the Air Force has accepted it.  They say that it is 100 per cent success.  The Air Force has now agreed to induct two squadrons of Akash Missiles in the Air Force.  Similarly, Astra Missile is also a success story.  Brahmos Missiles are in great demand not only in India but also in other countries.  But we are selective because it is a joint venture with Russia.  Only with the consent of both countries, we can export it.  Brahmos is ready for induction for Army and Navy. In the missile area, it has produced a lot of success.  In many other areas also it is successful.  Especially in the electronic warfare the DRDO is showing success.[MSOffice69]              Then I come to unmanned UAVs.  Our own production units are producing world class UAVs which are acceptable in the Army or Navy.  Now, they are producing them. In certain sectors there is some delay. Many of my colleagues have mentioned about LCA.  I can tell you that we are not going to abandon the LCA project.    LCA project is now successful, but with the present engine beyond a certain altitude we cannot fly. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): We have not completed the project since last 18 years. … (Interruptions)

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: It is not 18 years; it is more than that.  It started in 1974.  Now we are nearing a breakthrough.  In 2012, we hope that we will able to start the production.  But for higher altitude, we need high quality of engine. Our Kaveri engine is still not a reality.  So far we are trying to have a joint venture with some foreign collaboration. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): What about Cauvery?

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: Cauvery is not yet succeeded.   You are right.  That is why for Cauvery, we are now trying for a joint venture with some foreign collaborations.   

            What I am telling is that our Armed Forces are now ready.  We are trying to give them better equipment and for that, mainly we are dependent still on our own Defence PSUs, our own Ordnance Factories.    But of late, during the last few years, the Government is now involving private sector also, mainly the Indian private sector and foreigners only up to 26 per cent.    For the success of these PSUs and also Indian private industries, we need scientific support.  We are successfully extending that scientific support in many areas to PSUs as well as to our Indian private sector. 

            Some of the hon. Members have raised general issues.  I will react to them first and then I will cover some of the individual issues.   

            My colleague brought the point about the sad incident of killing of two BRO persons in Afghanistan.  The Government took immediate action to bring their bodies and already we have given some temporary relief.  As far as all other benefits that are due to them are concerned, the Government, at the earliest, will give all those benefits.    So, there is no worry at all on this aspect. 

            Many hon. colleagues have expressed their views about CDS.  Actually, when my senior colleague, Shri Pranab Mukherjee, was the hon. Minister of Defence, he also consulted various political parties. Till now we are awaiting the reponse of the most of the political parties.  … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Is it on CDS?  What is it?

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: It is Chief of Defence Staff. So unless there is some kind of consciousness, the Government do not want to proceed on that.  That is why it is still delayed. 

Some of the colleagues have raised the question of INS Jalashwa. The allegation was it is an abandoned ship and without any verification we have purchased it. That is not correct and it is unfair. This was purchased on the basis of a report of an inspection team led by one of our Vice-Chiefs of our Naval Staff who went there. The delegation also sailed on the ship and after that they said that this ship is old, but for another ten years this can be operational. So, we bought it.

MR. SPEAKER: Old is gold also.[a70]  SHRI A.K. ANTONY: About the status of the Air Defence ship at Cochin, some concerns were expressed. But I can tell you that work is going on as per schedule. We hope that delivery of the ship will be in 2012.

            About One-Rank One-Pension, I have already expressed my views. So far, all the Pay Commissions are rejecting the proposal. But the present Government is  more anxious to find a reasonable and fair solution to meet the aspirations of the ex-Servicemen. That is why, in the last few years, we tried to increase the pension so that the gap between the ranks can be reduced. I am sure, the Committee appointed by the Cabinet under the Cabinet Secretary will also go through this problem. They will also come with some via media  so that we can find a solution to the aspirations of the ex-Servicemen.

            Some of the friends expressed their views about the Cantonment Boards saying that in the Cantonment Boards, MLAs and MPs were not there. As per the old Act, they were not there. But, as per the present, new Act, MPs and MLAs will be there as ex-officio Members. It is an Act of Parliament. This House only passed that Act. As per that Act, after the new election, MLAs and MPs will be invited to participate. So, all the issues concerning the Cantonment land and problems of the people who are living in the Cantonment areas can be discussed and sorted out in the new Cantonment Boards.

MR. SPEAKER: Yes, we have seen that in the Zilla Parishads. They hardly attend it.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: Opening up of Sainik Schools is actually as per the Agreement. For the opening of a Saink School, the State Governments must provide  land, infrastructure and certain recurring commitments. So, the Central Government alone cannot take the initiative to start a Saink School anywhere. So, again, I am with you. In Arunachal Pradesh, in the North-East and in all the States, we need at least one Sainik School. … (Interruptions)

SHRI KIREN RIJIJU : I will give free land. I am prepared to give my own land.… (Interruptions)

SHRI A.K. ANTONY:  I think if the hon. Member can convince his State Government, if it can give it in writing, they will support the Sainik School.… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: I have no such land as you have. I will give the State Government land if he does it in my constituency! … (Interruptions)

श्री भानु प्रताप सिंह वर्मा  : यदि राज्य सरकार जमीन देती है और आर्मी की जमीन भी खाली पड़ी हुई है तो क्या सरकार वहां सैनिक स्कूल खोलेगी?

SHRI A.K. ANTONY:  The Government took a policy decision years back that hereafter there would be no more military schools. Now, we have only the Sainik Schools. We are now starting only Sainik Schools. At the moment, we have  22 Sainik Schools. Wherever the State Governments are willing to give land, they assure infrastructure and meet the recurring expenditure, I assure you, we will take a serious interest – especially in the North-East and in other areas – and give topmost priority in sanctioning the Sainik Schools.

MR. SPEAKER: He has a lot of money. He can give you regular money.

… (Interruptions)

चौधरी लाल सिंह  : अध्यक्ष महोदय, इफ्रास्ट्रक्चर तो सरकार ने देना है, इन्होंने क्या देना है।… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Minister, please continue. He is speaking unauthorisedly.  आपकी बात रिकार्ड में आ गई है।

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: Infrastructure development in the border States is a real problem. Whatever may be the reasons, in the past, I also admit that we were not able to give proper attention to the infrastructure development of our border States whether it is in Sikkim or Arunachal Pradesh.

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI):  To Orissa also.

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: I am telling about the border States.

MR. SPEAKER: He is telling about the littoral States.

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: Border States means States which are in the border areas.

MR. SPEAKER:  He is taking it as the sea border! SHRI A.K. ANTONY: Mainly, regarding Arunachal Pradesh, Sikkim, the States bordering Myanmar, Jammu and Kashmir, the Government took a decision that  we must have infrastructure. (Interruptions)[R71]  MR. SPEAKER : He said, the States bordering Myanmar.

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: We have identified 72 roads to be taken up on a priority basis.  I agree with the view that many Members have expressed that across the border, a lot of developments are taking place.  Most modern roads, railway lines, air fields are on their territory, but, we ignore our border areas.  Now, the present Government took a decision that on an emergency basis, we must also develop air fields, roads and railways in our border areas.  Arunanchal Pradesh will get topmost priority in this.  Then, some of my colleagues expressed concerns about joint exercises.  Joint exercises are now an order of the day, as far as all the countries are concerned. In 1992, for the first time, Indian Navy and US Navy held a joint exercise off the coast of Goa.  That was known as Malabar exercise.  So, the first Malabar exercise started in 1992, that is, 16 years ago.  After that, it has been continuing.  Now, Indian Army, Indian Navy and Indian Air Force – all the three forces have joint exercise with various countries.  We have joint exercises with the US, Russia, the UK, France, Singapore, Malaysia, and Vietnam and with many of the Middle Eastern countries.  This year, for the first time, the Indian Army had a joint exercises with China.  This was held in China.  I am glad to inform the House that towards the end of this year, the Chinese Army will come to India for a Joint Exercise with the Indian Army.  So, we are not having a joint exercise with a particular country, but our Army, Navy and Air Force are having joint exercises with almost all the important countries of the world.  It is not against any country.  India is having Defence relations now with many countries; almost all the important countries are having Defence relations with India.  Russia, US, France, UK, Saudi Arabia, Vietnam, Israel, Singapore, China – with all these countries, we are having Defence cooperation agreement. These are Defence cooperation agreements.  But, I can assure the House that as far as we are concerned, we will not indulge in any kind of military alliance or military cooperation with any country. We are also concerned with our independent foreign policy.   After all, for this country, who got the independent foreign policy first?  It was Pandit Jawahar Lal Nehru and our first Government, at that time, who started this policy.  Based on that, we have been following an independent foreign policy and that policy we will maintain in future also.  The world is changing.  In the present day world, there are no power blocs.   Now, we are trying to have Defence cooperation with almost all the countries.  It is not against anybody.  This cooperation will increase the strength of our own Armed Forces.  Some of my colleagues were telling about logistics agreement that we have. Discussions are going on, but we have not entered into any logistics agreement.  I can assure you that we will not include any clause in it that will go against the interests of the Indian sovereignty.  As far as protecting the sovereignty of the country is concerned, we are all one on that.  As I said earlier, more than anything else, more than pay or achievement, the unity of the country and moral support of the people is the main source of inspiration for our Armed Forces.  [MSOffice72]              We are developing a strong and modern Armed Force not to fight with any other country, but to protect our land, our sea borders and for our security. For that, Government is now giving priority. Luckily our economy is also growing fast. That is why, in the last few years we have been able to provide more money to the Armed Forces, but as has been mentioned by some hon. Members, in some areas we were not able to spend all the money. Why? What is the reason for that? I would like to take this House into confidence. Can we spend all the money just for the sake of spending? In some of the defence deals, in the last stage we find some lacuna. Some people mentioned about the anti-aircraft gun. Everything was going on smoothly. In the last stage, in the trial something funny happened. Then we thought that we could not encourage foul play. So, the Government cancelled that contract and then we have gone for a fresh tender.

            Sir, in respect of the gun system with BAE Systems, the trial was successful. It is true that the DRDO has not been able to produce the best gun for the last 20 years. But because of that, can we accept a gun which is not as per the quality requirement? So, we cancelled that contract. In respect of some of the other items also, when we find that some allegations are there or when the CBI inquiry is going on, we want to ensure that our contract must not endanger the ongoing CBI investigation, like the Barak missile deal. We have purchased many equipment from Israel. But on one or two things we took a decision that since the CBI inquiry is going on, we should stop the purchase. On the Barak missile deal, we decided to get the legal opinion and we decided that we should not go ahead with full speed. That is why, we were not able to spend all the money on procurements. But even before that, the Finance Ministry effected a cut of about Rs. 4,000 crore. It is not because of surrendering the money by us. They, on their own, due to various reasons unilaterally effected the cut. On the remaining amount, I think we have spent almost 99 per cent during the year which just ended and I am sure we will get more money this year from the Finance Ministry.

            Sir, I can assure the House that with all your cooperation and with the support of the whole country, we are trying to build a strong and modern Army. Our Armed Forces are not provocative and we are not trying to enter into any confrontation with any country. On the contrary, the policy of the present Government is that, as far as possible, we must develop friendly relations with all countries, especially our neighbouring countries like China and Pakistan. We are trying to improve our relations with all our neighbours. But at the same time, eternal vigilance is necessary. So, I can assure the House that our Armed Forces are prepared to face any eventuality at any time. I thank all the hon. Members for the wholehearted support that they have extended for the cause of the Armed Forces. Now I would request the House to pass the Demands for Grants.

             

CHAUDHARY LAL SINGH : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to ask a question to the hon. Defence Minister.

SHRI KIREN RIJIJU  : Sir, I also want to ask a question.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL  : Sir, I would like to seek a clarification.

MR. SPEAKER: This cannot be a free for all, I am sorry.

            Mr. Minister, are you prepared to answer some clarificatory questions?

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: Yes, Sir.

MR. SPEAKER: You may note down them and you can answer them together at the end.

चौधरी लाल सिंह : मैंने कहा कि हमारे तीन डिस्ट्रिक्ट्स में क्वालीफिकेशन मैट्रिक रखी गई है और बाकी में अंडर मैट्रिक रखी गई है। मैं मंत्री जी से जानना चाहता हूं कि क्या आप इसे दुरुस्त करेंगे?[R73]  SHRI KIREN RIJIJU : Sir, with your permission, now I compliment the hon. Minister with the condition that he fulfils the promises he has made.

            Sir, I have written three letters to the hon. Defence Minister and to the earlier Defence Minister also on the missing link, the road in Kameng sector from Tawang to Subansiri, then upper sector near Mcmahon Line.  The reply, to all the three letters I got, is that it is not in the plan and the Defence Ministry is not planning to construct road in that area. 

            The hon. Prime Minister has given a package for the lower region, but not for the upper region.  If the hon. Minister cannot give the answer right now, my request is that he should take it up as I have written three letters.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL  : Sir, in the course of my speech, I have made two important points. One was, there are reports that there is a move to dilute the off-set clauses in the purchase of equipment. May I know from the hon. Minister whether there is any such move and what is the stand of the Government?

            The second point was about the commitment in the CMP that a separate ex-Servicemen’s Department would be set up.  What is the Government’s decision with regard to that?

SHRI B. MAHTAB  : Sir, I have two questions to ask.  One is relating to the deputation of Indian Armed Forces being deputed by United Nations in different parts of the world on certain payments, though that payment is not coming forth from the United Nations.  It is long pending case before the United Nations, today.

            My question is, when are you going to stop deputing Indian Armed personnel through United Nations on payment?  The United States, the United Kingdom and even France and China do not deploy their Armed Forces through United Nations.  So, why should we be at par with Pakistan or Bangladesh?

            The second is the recruitment that is taking place through different recruitment centres throughout the country. Specific height and measurement of chest, etc. is not the same for the Army throughout the country.  Orissa has been clubbed with Bihar and Central Province earlier, now it is Madhya Pradesh and Poorvanchal where the height is more in comparison to Andhra Pradesh.  Would the hon. Minister consider taking Orissa along with Andhra Pradesh?

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO  : Sir, after 17 years of service, an Army personnel retires when his age is about 36 to 37 years.  He is still a young person and when this human resource comes to the civilian sector, how can its services be put to the use of the nation?  There are no labour laws, no recruitment laws in the civilian sector on in the PSU sector or even the private sector.

MR. SPEAKER: He has mentioned it.

SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO  : Sir, I would like a clarification from the hon. Minister, will the Defence Ministry coordinate with other Ministries for their employment or will the Government take a decision to engage this young force because the pension that they get is very less?

MR. SPEAKER: He has mentioned it.

DR. SUJAN CHAKRABORTY (JADAVPUR): Sir, the organizations of DRDO are really doing very good research and development activities in different parts of the country.  I would like to know from the hon. Minister what is the plan of the Ministry for sharing these effective R&D activities by the general R&D organizations of the Science and Technology Department.

LT. GEN. (RETD.) TEJPAL SINGH RAWAT  : Sir, I have a few clarifications to ask.  My first question is what action has the Government taken as far as having a role on plan for the Army or a multi-year allocation of Budget so that whatever funds are not utilized in that particular year are carried forward to the next year.

            Secondly, there is no war memorial of the Defence Forces so far.  Is there a plan by the Government to have a war memorial so that the names of the people, who have died and sacrificed their lives after 1947, can be included in that?

MR. SPEAKER: Too many clarifications! LT. GEN. (RETD.) TEJPAL SINGH RAWAT  : Thirdly, there is a dichotomy in the thinking of the Government.[r74]              On the one hand, the hon. Minister has said that there is no limit as to the quantum of funds that can be made available to the Government for purchases by Defence.  On the other hand he is saying that a sum of Rs. 1,05,600 crore has been allocated, and if he feels that more money can be made available, then that money should have been made available earlier. 

MR. SPEAKER:  That is not a clarification. I am sorry.

            Now, Prof. Chander Kumar.

PROF. CHANDER KUMAR (KANGRA): Hon. Speaker, Sir, I would like to know from the hon. Minister whether a Group of Ministers has recommended certain pensions to the persons below the officer’s rank.  Now, the Anomalies Committee is looking into the matter of ‘one-rank-one pension’.  What is the difference between the recommendations made by the Group of Ministers and the Anomalies Committee? The Anomalies Committee may give this ‘one rank one pension’. But what about the difference between the recommendations of the Committee which has been constituted by the Government of India and the recommendations of the Anomalies Committee?  Are they going to remove that ‘one-rank-one pension’?

MR. SPEAKER:  I am sorry. That is much beyond a clarification.  You need not bother about that now.  Now, I would allow the last Member, Shri Braja Kishore Tripathy.

            All the 20 Members cannot ask clarifications.  This cannot be done.

            The hon. Minister has given a very candid and a very exhaustive answer.

SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY : Mr. Speaker, Sir, C&AG had made certain observations, and the Public Accounts Committee needed certain clarifications and some rectifications.  The observations have not yet been complied with, and the Ministry has not given the Action Taken Report.  So, what is the real position? 

MR. SPEAKER:  This is not a clarification. 

            Now, I would request the hon. Minister of Defence to give a brief reply to the clarifications, if he chooses to, and I cannot compel him.

SHRI A.K. ANTONY : Mr. Speaker, Sir, first of all, I would like to answer to the clarification put by my colleague from Arunachal Pradesh.  The hon. Member himself knows that the present Government is taking more interest in the development of the North-East as a whole and especially, Arunachal. You are going to get more roads, more airfields and even rail links. About a particular road, I cannot say anything off-hand.  But I can assure you that whatever is possible for the development of infrastructure in Arunachal, we will give maximum priority.

            Regarding the Off-set Policy, only the present Government introduced the Off-set Policy for the first time in 2006 when Shri Pranab Mukherjee was the Defence Minister. Now, because of various complaints, the Government has, for the first time, introduced a comprehensive Defence Procurement Policy.  The Off-set Policy is also a part of this policy.  As per this Policy, 30 per cent is the off-set rate now for any contract above Rs. 300 crore.  But in the Policy itself, there is a provision that in every two years it has to be renewed; it has to be updated.  That process is going on.  We have not taken a decision.  That review is to take place to give more transparency and also more speedy procurement. So, whatever is the best for our country, for our Armed Forces – we will not be influenced by any kind of influence from any foreign powers – we will make amendments.  That will be applicable to all countries and not a special thing for any country.  

            Regarding the Non-lapsable Fund, it has been examined by various Governments at various times, and the Finance Ministry came to a conclusion that because of a lot of complications, it was not practicable.  But they assured us that in future they would allot reasonable fund for the Defence Ministry.   That is how we will be able to meet our requirements. … (Interruptions)

SHRI K.S. RAO : For capital equipment. … (Interruptions)

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: Yes, for capital equipment. 

            Regarding induction of ex-servicemen, it is one of the priority areas of our Government.  That is why, as per the recommendation of the Standing Committee, the present Government … (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : New Welfare Department … (Interruptions)

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: I am coming to that.  The present Government, for the first time, has already formed Ex-servicemen Welfare Department.One new Secretary is there. So, that demand is fulfilled.

            Now, what we are trying is to persuade both public sectors and private industries to induct more  Ex-Servicemen because in the Ex-Servicemen, there is a trained, committed and   disciplined  role of officers.

            Therefore, this year, in a large scale, we are trying to induct more Ex-Servicemen in various Forces, in the Central Government Establishments, in the private sector units etc.  Wherever possible, we are trying to induct more and more Ex-Servicemen.

            About the Army Recruitment Rally, it is taking place in almost all the Districts.  Induction in the  Armed Forces is almost proportionate to various States.  There is a certain formula.  So, no injustice would be done to any State.  Orissa also would get its due share.

LT. GEN. (RETD.) TEJ PAL SINGH RAWAT  : Sir, what about the War Memorial?

SHRI A.K. ANTONY: About the War Memorial, I agree with you that it is a sentimental issue for the Armed Forces. The Ministry of Defence is also pursuing it.  But the Delhi Vista Committee  and the Delhi Urban Arts Commission are not still convinced about our proposal. So, we are at it. We are pursuing it.

MR. SPEAKER:  I shall now put the Demands for Grants relating to the Ministry of Defence to the vote of the House.

            The question is:

“That the respective sums not exceeding the amounts on Revenue Account and Capital Account shown in the Fourth column of the Order Paper be granted to the President of India, out of the Consolidated Fund of India, to complete the sums necessary to defray the charges that will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 2009, in respect of the heads of Demands entered in the Second column thereof against Demand Nos. 19 to 26 relating to the Ministry of Defence.”                                       The motion was adopted.

 

MR. SPEAKER: The House stands adjourned to meet again tomorrow, the 23rd April, 2008 at 11 a.m. 18.57 hrs. The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Eleven of the Clock on[r75]  Wednesday, April 23, 2008/Vaisakha 3, 1930 (Saka)    cd. by d1.e [a1] HS cd [R2] Cd by e1 [R3] Cotd by f1 [MSOffice4]  [R5](Cd. by g1)  [r6]basudeb ctd  [r7]ctd by fld by h cd. by j1 [H8] Contd by k1.e [r9] fld by l1 [R10] cd.by m [R11] Fd by N [r12]  [r13]Fld.. by o1 cd by h1 [KMR14] Cd by s [r15] fd. by ‘t’ [R16] cd. by u [R17]  [R18]contd. by w1.e  [MSOffice19]Rawat-cd.

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 [r42]ctd by y2    

  

  

cd. by z2 [H43]    

  

  

Contd by a3.e [r44]    

  

  

Ctd. By b3 [m45]    

  

  

 [k46]contd by c3    

  

  

Contd by D3 [SS47]    

  

  

cd.. by e3    

  

  

Cd by f3.e [r49]    

  

  

Cd by g3 [KMR50]    

  

  

 [r51]Cd by h3    

  

  

cd. by ‘j3’ [R52]    

  

  

cd. by k3 [R53]    

  

  

 [R54]cd.    

  

  

Contd. By  N3   [MSOffice55]    

  

  

Cd by p3 [R56]    

  

  

Cotd by o3 [MSOffice57]    

  

  

 [R58](Cd. by r3)    

  

  

 [r59]prabhu ctd    

  

  

 [r60]Contd by u3.e    

  

  

Ctd. By w3 [m61]    

  

  

 [k62]contd by x3    

  

  

 [R63]cd.by z3    

  

  

Fd by a4.e [r64]    

  

  

cd. [R65]    

  

  

cd. by ‘d4’ [R66]    

  

  

cd. by e4 [R67]    

  

  

 [R68]contd. by f4.e    

  

  

Contd. By  H4    [MSOffice69]    

  

  

Dfd. By j4.e [a70]    

  

  

 [R71]Cd by k4    

  

  

Sh antonym cotd. [MSOffice72]    

  

  

 [R73](Fd. by m4)    

  

  

 [r74]ctd by n4    

  

  

 [r75] Friday, March 10, 2000/Phalguna 20, 1921 (Saka).