Lok Sabha Debates
Discussion On The Demands For Supplementary Grants (General) For 2001-2002 ... on 28 August, 2001
Title: Discussion on the Demands for Supplementary Grants(General) for 2001-2002(contd.-conclude.) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, the next item is Supplementary Demands for Grants.
We have already taken one hour and 54 minutes. The remaining time is one hour and six minutes only. I would appeal to all the hon. Members that when they speak, they can refer to so-and-so Supplementary Demand dealing with so-and-so item so that they could confine to their subject and save the time. Dr. Laxminarayan Pandey.
डॉ.लक्ष्मीनारायण पाण्डेय (मंदसौर): माननीय उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, कल इन पूरक मांगों पर चर्चा करते समय नैफेड के बारे में मैंने चर्चा की थी कि किस प्रकार से समर्थन मूल्य पर खरीद नहीं की जा रही है । आज अंडमान निकोबार के हमारे सांसद मित्र ने भी यह बात उठाई कि वहां भी समर्थन मूल्य पर खरीद नहीं की जा रही है । इसके साथ-साथ मैंने प्रधान मंत्री सड़क योजना के बारे में भी अपने विचार व्यक्त किये थे और निवेदन किया था कि प्रधान मंत्री सड़क योजना को जिस प्रकार से कार्यान्वित किया जाना चाहिए, अनेक प्रदेशों के द्वारा उसे ठीक ढंग से कार्यान्वित नहीं किया जा रहा है । ग्रामीण विकास मंत्रालय के दिशा निर्देश का पालन भी नहीं हुआ है। मैंने उदाहरण देते हुए कहा था कि किस प्रकार से जहां सड़कें बनी हुई हैं, उन्हीं को उसमें शामिल कर लिया गया है और उस पर भारी राशि व्यय की जा रही है । इसलिए कोई एक ठीक ढंग की व्यवस्था बनानी चाहिए, जिससे कि उसका निरीक्षण और परीक्षण हो सके तथा सांसंदों की उसमें भागीदारी सुनिश्चित की जा सके ।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, जो मांग संख्या ३४ है, जिसमें प्रत्यक्ष कर के संबंध में और मुम्बई में एक भवन बनाने के बारे में माननीय वित्त मंत्री जी ने मांग की है। वह भवन बनना चाहिए, लेकिन उसके साथ मैं अपने दो सुझाव भी रखना चाहता हूं । यह सही है कि हम अपनी व्यवस्था सुधारना चाहते हैं और उस व्यवस्था की द्ृष्टि से कार्य भी करना चाहते हैं । अभी रिजर्व बैंक द्वारा जो कुछ स्थानों पर नोट बनाये जाते हैं फिर जारी किये जाते हैं या प्रैसों में बनाये जाते हैं उनमें रिजर्व बैंक के द्वारा अपने अधिकार में प्रेस में जहां नोट बनाये जाने की प्रैस है, वह उसके अधिकार क्षेत्र में है, लेकिन कुछ ऐसे एरिया जो उसके अधिकार क्षेत्र में नहीं हैं, जैसे मेरे मित्र श्री थावर चन्द जी के क्षेत्र देवास में एक बैंक नोट प्रैस है, 14.00 hrs. जिसके विस्तार के बारे में स्वीकृति हो चुकी थी, लेकिन पहले पानी का अभाव बताकर उसे रोक दिया गया था। वहां पानी का अभाव नहीं है। मैं चाहूँगा कि आप उसके लिए स्वीकृति दें ताकि बाज़ार में जो सड़े-गले नोट आ रहे हैं, उसके स्थान पर नये नोट आ सकें, वहां कार्य का विस्तार हो साथ ही वहां के कर्मचारियों के वेतन में जो असमानता है, उसे ठीक किया जा सके और जो रिज़र्व बैंक के द्वारा संचालित बैंक नोट प्रेस हैं उनका मानदेय अलग है और दूसरे कर्मचारियों का अलग है, हालांकि काम एक ही है, उनके मानदेय में जो अंतर है उसे भी दूर किया जाना चाहिए। पिछले कुछ वर्ष पूर्व बैंक नोट प्रैस में हड़ताल हुई थी उन दिनों का वेतन नहीं मिला। लेकिन जहां दूसरे कर्मचारियों, पी एंड टी के कर्मचारियों को तो उसका लाभ मिल गया लेकिन इन कर्मचारियों को लाभ नहीं मिला। मैं चाहूँगा कि वह लाभ उनको भी दिया जाए।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, माँग संख्या ५ और ६ के बारे में मैं एक साथ चर्चा करना चाहूँगा। माँग संख्या ५ आई.डी.पी.एल. के बारे में है और माँग संख्या ६ फर्टिलाइज़र के बारे में है। आई.डी.पी.एल. किसी समय बहुत अच्छी कंपनी थी, वह लाभप्रद संस्था थी और उसको इस द्ृष्टि से चलाया गया था कि सस्ती और प्रामाणिक दवाइयां मिलेंगी और जिनकी विश्वसनीयता होगी। धीरे-धीरे उनका घाटा बढ़ता गया। सरकार निरन्तर उसको सहायता दे रही है लेकिन उसकी स्थिति अच्छी नहीं है। इसलिए उसके बारे में एक सुनिश्चित योजना बनाकर उसके रिवाइवल के लिए ठीक से प्लान किया जाए ताकि जो बड़ी-बड़ी नधि आप आबंटित करते हैं, उनकी आवश्यकता न पड़े।
आज हमारे फर्टिलाइज़र के कारखाने बंद हो रहे हैं। क्यों बंद हो रहे हैं, क्या कारण है? क्या रॉ-मैटीरियल नहीं मिल रहा है, या कुप्रबंधन है या क्या आवश्यकता है? यह ठीक है कि उनके लिए नधियाँ यहां स्वीकृत हो जाती हैं लेकिन उसके बाद जिस प्रकार से उनको काम करना चाहिए, वह काम नहीं हो रहा है। मैं माननीय वित्त मंत्री महोदय का ध्यान भारी उद्योग क्षेत्र की तरफ भी ले जाना चाहता हूँ। उनके लिए कई रिवावल प्लान बने हैं। कई ऐसे उद्योग हैं जिनको फिर से आप चलाना चाहते हैं। मैं आपका ध्यान सीसीआई की तरफ खींचना चाहता हूँ। इसकी कई इकाइयाँ हैं। कुछ ऐसी हैं जो चलाई जा सकती हैं, वह तो ठीक हैं लेकिन कुछ ऐसी हैं जिनको बंद किया जाना चाहिए। मेरे क्षेत्र नयागांव में सिमेंट कार्पोरेशन की एक सिमेंट इकाई है। वहां चार वर्षों से कर्मचारियों को वेतन दिया जा रहा है। प्रति मास लाखों रुपया वेतन दिया जा रहा है। बिजली पर भारी खर्चा हो रहा है, लेकिन बिजली का जो बकाया था, उसके बकाया होने से बिजली कट गई और कारखाना बंद हो गया। आज हम लाखों रुपया उस पर खर्च कर रहे हैं। मैंने भारी उद्योग मंत्रालय से भी चर्चा की है, माननीय प्रधान मंत्री जी से भी निवेदन किया है, माननीय वित्त मंत्री महोदय से भी निवेदन है कि उस बिजली का बकाया चुकवा दीजिए, उसमें कोर्ट का भी आदेश है कि फिर वह कारखाना चल पड़ेगा और आपको अकारण ही घर बैठे मजदूरों को वेतन नहीं देना पड़ेगा। उत्पादन से देश को लाभ होगा।
महोदय, मंत्री जी सुपर बाज़ार को भी काफी पैसा देने जा रहे हैं। सुपर बाज़ार की क्या स्थिति है, कल आधे घंटे की चर्चा हुई, उस पर मैं विस्तार में नहीं जाना चाहता हूं। लेकिन तीन वर्षों में क्यों घाटा हुआ? अकारण ही वहां पर माज़दा गाड़ी खरीद ली गई जिसकी आवश्यकता नहीं थी, दालें खरीद ली गईं, जबकि आवश्यकता नहीं थी, महंगे दाम पर प्याज खरीदा गया। उसका जो घाटा हुआ वह शेयर होल्डर्स की जेब पर जाता है। इसलिए सीधी-सीधी बात यह है कि ऐसी संस्थाओं के बारे में ठीक से विचार होना चाहिए। मैं निवेदन करना चाहूँगा कि कुल मिलाकर जो हजारों सहकारिता आंदोलन से जुड़े हुए लोग हैं, उनका विश्वास डगमगा रहा है कि हम कहां पैसा लगाएं. यूटीआई की चर्चा मैं नहीं करना चाहता उस पर काफी बहस हुई है, लेकिन वह संस्था भी इससे संबंधित है। उसके बारे में जो माहौल बना है, उसे ठीक कर सकें तो मैं समझता हूं कि काफी अच्छा होगा और लाभप्रद होगा। लोगों का विश्वास बढेगा। छोटे निवेशक आश्वस्त होंगे।
मैं गुजरात के भूकंप पीड़ितों की तरफ भी ध्यान आकर्षित कनरा चाहता हूं और साथ साथ वर्तमान में आंध्रा प्रदेश में, मध्य प्रदेश के कुछ हिस्सों में और कर्नाटक में जो सूखे की स्थिति है, गत वर्ष मध्य प्रदेश पूरी तरह से सूखे की चपेट में था और आज उसके अंदर कुछ जिले ऐसे हैं जो सूखे की चपेट में हैं। जहां अन्यान्य प्रदेशों को सहायता की राशि की बात की जा रही है, मैं चाहूंगा कि मध्य प्रदेश के बारे में भी विचार किया जाए ताकि उसके जो सूखे की चपेट में क्षेत्र आए हैं, उन क्षेत्रों को भी देखा जा सके और उनको भी सहायता दी जा सके।
महोदय, मांग संख्या ५८ में पूर्वोत्तर राज्यों के बारे में चर्चा की गई है। लक्ष्यद्वीप की चर्चा इसमें नहीं है लेकिन मैं चाहूंगा कि लक्ष्यद्वीप को भी इसमें सहायता मिलनी चाहिए। क्योंकि वह भी हमारे देश का एक भाग है, उसके अंदर भी काफी कठिनाइयां हैं। मैंने स्वयं जाकर देखा था कि वहां सौर ऊर्जा से काम होता है, डीजल से बिजली चलती है। उसके लिए अलग पैकेज बनाना चाहिये। पूर्वोत्तर क्षेत्र के लिए जो राशि प्रदान की गई है, वह राशि सामान्यतया ठीक है। इसलिए हम पूर्वोत्तर क्षेत्र को अपने साथ पूरी तरह उन्नत करना चाहते हैं, विकसित देखना चाहते हैं, वहां की कठिनाइयां हल करना चाहते हैं क्योंकि वहां कई प्रदेशों में आदिवासी बहुल जनसंख्या है। उसमें यह भावना पैदा न हो कि हम अलग हैं या हमारे साथ सौतेला व्यवहार किया जा रहा है। इस व्यवहार को ठीक करने की द्ृष्टि से भी पूर्वोत्तर राज्यों के लिए जो पैसा दिया गया है, यदि उसमें और नधि आवंटित की जाती है, तो बहुत अच्छा होगा। मैं जानता हूं कि सप्लीमैंट्री बजट - प्रथम लिखा हुआ है, द्वितीय भी आवेगा और अगर आवश्यकता पड़ी तो हो सकता है कि तृतीय भी आए, मैं चाहूंगा कि उसके अंदर और भी राशि दी जाए ताकि उनको यह अनुभूति हो कि वास्तव में हमारे साथ ठीक ढंग का व्यवहार हो रहा है।
पत्रकार कल्याण नधि के बारे में भी इसमें चर्चा की गई है। कल विपक्ष की ओर से तिवारी जी ने बोलते हुए कहा था कि पत्रकारों के लिए कल्याण नधि की निश्चित ही आवश्यकता है। पत्रकार भी समाज के सजग प्रहरी होकर काम करते हैं लेकिन आखिर यह कल्याण नधि किस प्रकार आवंटित होगी, किस प्रकार दी जाएगी, क्या व्यवस्थाएं होंगी, इसके बारे में कोई खुलासा नहीं है। पत्रकारों की किस श्रेणी को इसमें लिया जाएगा, किस श्रणी को नहीं लिया जाएगा, कौन लाभान्वित होगा, कौन लाभान्वित नहीं होगा, इस द्ृष्टि से देखा जाना आवश्यक है।
अंत में अपने क्षेत्र की समस्या सामने रखते हुए मैं अपनी बात कहना चाहता हूं क्योंकि यह भी वित्त विभाग से सीधा संबंधित है। वित्त मंत्री जी अनुपूरक अनुदानों की मांगों को लेकर आए हैं। मैंने डोडा चूरा के संबंध में कहा था कि यह अफीम की काश्त से संबंधित है। डोडा चूरा का व्यापार नेफेड करे, यह मैंने मंत्री महोदय से निवेदन किया है, जो वर्तमान में राज्य सरकार द्वारा किया जाता है और उसमें करोड़ों रुपयों की हेराफेरी होती है, ठीक से नियंत्रण नहीं होता, केसेज बनते हैं, लोग परेशान होते हैं। डोडा चूरा का व्यापार अगर नेफेड करने लगे तो निश्चित रूप से लाभ होगा। अफीम की खेती जो नारकोटिक्स विभाग के अंतर्गत है , करते हैं, अफीम के मूल्य बढ़ाए जाने की भी आवश्यकता है क्योंकि उसमें उत्पादन लागत काफी बढ़ी है। वे स्वयं विदेशी मुद्रा अर्जित करते हैं। मैंने दो दिन पहले नियम ३७७ के अन्तर्गत अपना विषय उठाते हुए कहा था कि नीमच स्थित अल्कलाइड फैक्ट्री का विस्तार किया जाए, इससे कोडीन फास्फेट बनता है, मौर्फीन बनती है और ऐसी दवाइयां बनती हैं जो हमारे लिए लाभप्रद हैं, जिन्हें हम विदेशों से आयात करते थे लेकिन आजकल निर्यात भी करते हैं। इससे विदेशी मुद्रा की बचत होगी और अर्जन भी होगा। ऐसी चीज के बारे में निश्चित रूप से विचार करके उस फैक्ट्री का विस्तार किया जाना चाहिए। अफीम के काश्तकार लाखों की संख्या में हैं। उत्तर प्रदेश, राजस्थान और मेरे क्षेत्र में ७० हजार किसान केवल इसी काश्त के ऊपर निर्भर करते हैं। मंत्री महोदय मूल्य वृद्दि पर विचार हेतु एक समति गठित की है लेकिन वह समति उसका निर्णय जल्दी करे। पौपीहस्क के बारे में भी मैंने चर्चा की है और कहा है कि पौपीहस्क का नियंत्रण भी केन्द्र सरकार ले।
अंत में अपनी बात कह कर मैं समाप्त करूंगा। यद्यपि यह सीधे इस पूरक बजट का विषय नहीं है। मेरे क्षेत्र में नीमच से रतलाम तक रेलवे के अमान परिवर्तन का कार्य चल रहा है। उसके लिए हर साल रेल बजट में पैसा रखा जाता है, कभी ५ करोड़ रुपये, कभी १० करोड़ रुपये और कभी १५ करोड़ रुपये लेकिन जो योजना ११३ करोड़ रुपये की है, मैंने मांग की है कि यदि उसके लिए ५० करोड़ रुपये अतरिक्त राशि देंगे तभी वह योजना पूरी हो पाएगी और दिल्ली से मुम्बई तक की सीधी पैरलल लाइन तैयार हो जाएगी जिससे आम जनता को सुविधा होगी। मैंने पूरक मांगों के समय इसका लाभ लेते हुए रेल विभाग के संदर्भ में कुछ बातें कही हैं। मैं चाहूंगा कि यह विषय रेल बजट का है तथापि क्षेत्र की जनता की मांग है अत:यहां पर रखी हैं। मैं चाहूंगा कि मंत्री महोदय अपना उत्तर देते समय निश्चित रूप से उन पर विचार करके अपनी प्रतक्रिया व्यक्त करेंगे और अपनी बात कहेंगे।
SHRI A.C. JOS (TRICHUR): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I rise to oppose the Demands for Supplementary Grants put forward by the hon. Finance Minister. He has come with the Demands for Supplementary Grants for Rs. 3,709 crore. Out of which, according to him, Rs. 1,413 crore are in cash. Why should we support the Demands for Supplementary Grants? A few months back, the hon. Finance Minister has come with a dream Budget. If we look through the contents and the performance, that dream Budget became a daydream and finally it has become a nightmare.
Will the hon. Minister be kind enough to tell me and assess what are the achievements of his dream Budget for the first quarter which he has completed? Can he point out a single realm of his activity wherein he has succeeded a little bit in totally translating his dream Budget into realities? In stead of achievements, the country and its people who elected this Government are stunned with mind-boggling scams. The most sorry state of affairs is that the appendage of the Ministry of Finance is mired in these scams. The custodian of the Customs Department, the Director-General of Customs is in jail or on bail. He is the custodian of the financial boundaries of this country. He is in jail. The people have reposed faith in the Treasury Benches, the Government, but that was shattered by the scam of UTI. About two or three crores of people in India have nowhere to go for now. What about the Tehelka scam? Whether they have used any reprehensible method or not, that unveiled the nakedness of this Government’s corruptness. This is not a Government led by Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee; this is a Government led by scams. To put it shortly, this is a scam Government.
There is slow down in every field of economy. Different Ministries of the Government are functioning at cross-purposes. The recent surveys by different independent agencies indicate that the infrastructural sectors are performing far below the target. It is not because of the lack of funds, resources but because of lack of capacity for performance, because of utter confusion at the political level and because of deliberate delay and subversion. Take, for example, the power generation. We could not achieve even 50 per cent of the target. Rs.5,000 crore to Rs.7,000 crore was earmarked for improving the road system. It remains unutilised. What the hon. Prime Minister declared as ‘Golden Quadrangle or Triangle has now become a rustic zero. Nothing has happened in that.… (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF STATE OF THE MINISTRY OF ROAD TRANSPORT AND HIGHWAYS (MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B.C. KHANDURI): Shri Jos, I am sorry to intervene. I think, your knowledge is not at all correct regarding whatever you are saying about Golden Quadrangle or Triangle. I think you are misleading the House. It is one year ahead of schedule. You kindly come to me. I will give you a cup of tea.
SHRI A.C. JOS : If you are right, I am subject to correction. Then, I am coming to that.
DR. NITISH SENGUPTA (CONTAI): Is it physically on the ground or on the drawing board?
MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B.C. KHANDURI: When I talk of road, it is on the ground. Day after tomorrow, you will get a small booklet which gives all the details of this.
SHRI A.C. JOS : At page six of the Demands for Supplementary Grants, under the Ministry of Rural Development, the hon. Finance Minister has transferred the entire provision made under Pradhan Mantri Gram Sadak Yojana from Grants for State Plan schemes to Grants for Centrally-sponsored Plan schemes. Why should it be taken from the State Government? I do not understand this. If the Central Government can function that well, it is very good. Our experience is, it is not functioning very well. I am not going into the details. The rapid economic growth would have made some progress somewhere. But it is to be painfully noted that the employment scenario of this country is very, very grim. I would have understood it if the much-talked about reforms succeeded in increasing the rate of employment generation in the country. As per the hon. Finance Minister’s own statistics, the growth of employment has declined from 2.75 per cent of 70s to the present rate of 2.37 per cent. What is the position in the organised sector? They are supposed to be the direct beneficiaries of the economic reforms. The annual growth rate has come down to 0.8 per cent, with both the private sector and the public sector. It is very interesting. When Shri Narasimha Rao was there as Prime Minister and when Shri Manmohan Singh brought the economic reforms or rather privatisation, globalisation, etc., the hon. Finance Minister’s Party was on this side. They assailed these projects right, left and centre. They said, ‘You are going to sell Swadeshi to the Videshi.’ Now, what is the situation? Shri Narasimha Rao and the Congress have taken the private enterprises and the multinational to the drawing room for discussing business.
They have criticised it. Now the entire world is seeing that the private entrepreneurs and the multinationals are in the bedroom of the BJP, not only sharing their bed but even purchasing or stealing the family silver from them. … (Interruptions) That criticism has gone. What I am suggesting is that whatever be the growth of GDP, the benefits of our economic growth have not been distributed in favour of the poor. The unemployment is reaching soaring heights.
Who is the biggest employer in the country? It is this Government which is the biggest employer. Only serious effort to eradicate unemployment will give benefit to the country. You talk about the GDP’s growth, but the poverty alleviation has receded. Poverty alleviation and employment are both sides of the same coin. Only when there is employment that poverty will be reduced. Without providing employment how can the poverty be reduced? The statistics regarding people below the poverty line etc. are all fishy and they are not real.
As per the statistics, in 1981, the share of the Central Government in employment was 20.6 per cent and it fell down to 16.8 per cent in 1998. The growth rate of the Central Government employment has become a negative one at 0.6 per cent.
Now, let us turn to the State Governments. The State Governments also employ people. They are also employment agencies. The State Governments’ employment growth rate was 2.3 per cent; now it has fallen down to 0.6 per cent.
The third major source of employment is the public sector and the quasi-government establishments. In 198,1 the employment in this sector was 45.8 lakh, in 1991, it was 62.2 lakh, and in 1998, it was 64.6 lakh, indicating a growth rate of 0.6 per cent. So far as the local bodies are concerned, they are also not exempted. In 1991 the employment in this sector was 23.1 lakh and it declined to 22.5 lakh. The growth rate of employment in this sector is 0.3 per cent.
The statement of the hon. Prime Minister to cut employment by 10 per cent also added fuel to the fire. Now the situation is that even there is a deceleration of employment rate. Even the RSS has come forward very vehemently saying about this Government’s unemployment situation. They said – ‘The reform process will have to be altered in such a way that it improves the capability of the poor so that they are able to get better employment’. Even the RSS has come forward with a very vehement criticism against the Government in not creating employment. Without creating employment, how can we go about the reform process? It will not solve the problem of poverty and unemployment. No improvement will be made in this respect.
Has any investment been made in this Budget as well as in the Supplementary Budget for creation of employment? Unless capital investment is made to create employment, it will not serve the purpose. Here, in this House, many people have asked for the ‘Food for Work’ scheme. The Government has not accepted it. Without that the employment cannot be created in this country and without employment nothing can be done.
There are also delays in implementation of schemes. The gestation period of the hydroelectric projects in my State, Kerala, is more. We had applied for the clearance of the hydroelectric projects. Kerala is bestowed with natural potential for hydro power. But those projects are pending. FACT is the mother of all industries in Kerala. A year back, under the leadership of the then Chief Minister of Kerala, all the M.Ps. met the hon. Prime Minister and submitted a memorandum and requested for a financial package. The hon. Prime Minister promised to give it to us. But what is the situation now? Even after this action, no decision is taken. This is the Government of indecisions. The result is that if a decision has been taken then, now the position of FACT would have been all right.
What about production of copra? The main problem in Kerala is the deterioration in the cultivation of coconut. We wanted NAFED to purchase copra. I think in Tamil Nadu also the situation is the same. The Government is not releasing the money. That is what I understand. Unless you give money to NAFED and give specific instructions to NAFED to purchase copra, copra cannot be purchased and it cannot be done like that.
Sir, I am coming back again to the topic. In the Fourth Plan also, we had a situation like this and it was on unemployment. To my information, the then Prime Minister, Shrimati Indira Gandhi threw away the Plan document and appointed a Committee under the Chairmanship of Shri Dandavate to find out, suggest and recommend to the Government on how employment can be created. Only then, employment ratio went up. So, my request to the Government is, unless unemployment problem is solved in the country, the Government cannot move on. ..… (Interruptions) The financial rating of our country has gone down. I do not fully accuse the Government for the rating. I have my own doubts about the Standard and Poor’s and the Moody’s. That has synchronised with the visit of a VIP from the US. Some manipulation is going on. Our country is not that bad, but we have to be very careful. When the foreign exchange is on the top, when we have enough foreign exchange, how will the rating come down? We have to investigate into this matter.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: There are a number of speakers. There is no time. In this position, how can I accommodate you?
SHRI A.C. JOS (TRICHUR): Sir, unless we seriously look into the financial aspects and financial realm of this country, this country will go down, the poor people will become poorer and poorer, and unequitable distribution will be the permanent hallmark of this Government.
So, I oppose the Supplementary Demands for Grants.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN (TIRUNELVELI): Sir, the Finance Minister has presented the Supplementary Demands for Grants and asked for Supplementary Demands for Grants in this august House. Here, he has asked for the expenditure of the Government. I would like to express my views on the constitutional functioning of the Finance Minister who has asked for grants for expenditure. The House cannot judge the expenditure demand because you have to spend. Sir, the Finance Minister alone is dealing with an essential commodity like money. For him, money is an essential commodity. This essential commodity has suffered a serious setback in recent years due to crash in stock market prices , due to undervaluation, due to international market rate and inflation. Sir, I saw the statement of the Finance Minister about two weeks ago that this essential commodity has been grabbed by certain sections of the people – the higher strata of the society.
14.23 hrs (Dr. Laxminarayan Pandeya in the Chair) The heavy borrowers have not been charged of and heavy defaulters of banks’ dues have not been sent to jail. I saw that statement. The Finance Minister issued that statement. Only the small borrowers, small defaulters and poor defaulters are being sent to jail. It is his version that poor defaulters are being sent to jail and heavy defaulters are not being sent to jail. I would like to ask the Finance Minister as to whether he is going to take any stringent measures to send the heavy defaulters of banks’ dues or public institutions to jail. I want to know the measures taken.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (RAIGANJ): There is no law.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : There is a law. Are you going to implement that law? It is because these heavy defaulters are leeches and parasites of the society. They are parasites of the Government and also in the Government.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Is it?
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : Yes, on Those Benches. No defaulter should occupy the Treasury Bench. No defaulter should occupy the ministerial berth. That is the view of the people. So, I would urge the Finance Minister to recover the dues from these defaulters who are holding constitutional positions.
They are elected people, who are sitting even in Parliament. Two people, not all, are from that side, next to his side. I told you. So, it is up to the Finance Minister to increase the budgetary proposal by recovering those dues. Certain defaulters have become bankers also. How can defaulters become bankers? In some cases, the bankers have also become defaulters, like in the stock market scam. When we went to Mumbai in the Committee probing the stock market scam, the Governor of Reserve Bank of India appeared before us and a team of officials was conferring with us.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI YASHWANT SINHA): Please do not talk about that.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : It was an informal meeting. It was not an arranged one.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, I think that the Finance Minister is right that any deposition before the Committee should not be quoted in the House.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : It is not deposition. If it is deposition, I know that it cannot be quoted in the House.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Any proceedings before the Committee should not be quoted here.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN: It was an informal chat at Taj Hotel in Mumbai.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: But it was a chat with the JPC members.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : No. SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Yes, it was a chat with the JPC members and the JPC is going to draw conclusion upon that. … (Interruptions)
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : Sir, I will put it in another way. … (Interruptions) I would like to know from the Finance Minister whether the Governor of Reserve Bank of India is responsible for the bank frauds, for the stock market scam or any financial irregularities committed in different banks.
Sir, the financial institutions are dealing with the essential commodity like money. Even for banking institutions, the essential commodity is money. They are trading with money. When that trading is not curbed, when that unlawful trading is not checked, the whole economy of this country is coming down. We are not climbing up.
Sir, the poor people are not aware of the inside trading in any business. The poor investors are affected either due to non-banking institutions … (Interruptions) The poor investors are affected by certain unscrupulous Managements. I would like to say that about Rs. 1,500 crore were invested in my State by the poor investors, in various non-banking institutions. They have been cheated by or lured by sugar-coated advertisements in various Papers and TV channels saying that if they invest Rs. 100, they will get Rs. 150 with a gold coin and things like that. All those people have been lured. They have been duped. Now, they are on the streets. Those poor people have invested Rs. 1,500 crore in chits and various other instruments of investment.
Sir, he is asking for release of about Rs. 3,000 and odd crore. That amount of Rs. 3,000 and odd crore, as Shri Jos referred, on page 25 – I have already shown it to you – the Finance Minister has conveniently inserted.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri PANDIAN, your time is only three minutes, but you have already taken six minutes.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : Sir, we are eleven Members. For three minutes, I need not have got up to speak. I have got so much of material. I am asking directly.
You have conveniently inserted a provision for transferring the entire provision of Rs. 2,500 crore made under Pradhan Mantri Grameen Sadak Yojana from grants for State Plan schemes to grants for Centrally-sponsored schemes. It is our scheme, and the State Government should get the Plan allocation directly. Here, you have remitted it in a different way. Maybe, the Finance Minister might have thought that nobody would notice it. This has been mentioned in a small paragraph. Shri Jos mentioned it earlier. We have the same wavelength. In clause (c), you have stated:
"For the release of funds for the implementation of capacity-building of elected and official functionaries of Panchayati Raj institutions."
What did you do? Did you train them in any UNDP programme so far? The programme is going to come to an end even in our State. Then, you say:
"For the release of about Rs. 217 crore for the expenditure on three lakh houses under the Indira Awas Yojana for people below the poverty line."
SHRI A.C. JOS : Mr. Finance Minister, you are transferring the entire grant for State Plan scheme to Centrally-sponsored scheme. Will you please clarify as to how it can actually benefit the people? This money is meant for the village roads.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Since the hon. Member, Shri Jos, raised it, and the hon. Member, Shri PANDIAN, is raising it, I will clarify this when I speak. I will give the reply at that time.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : So far as poverty alleviation and rural development issues are concerned, it is the Government’s duty to revise the guidelines for the survey to ascertain the number of people below the poverty line which is due for 2002. The Government of India have arranged to conduct a survey of those people who are below the poverty line at the beginning of each Five-Year Plan. According to the guidelines issued by the Government of India for the conduct of BPL survey for the Ninth Five Year Plan, many poor families were left out. Now, for the year 2002, it is the duty of the Government of India to conduct a re-survey of those people who are below the poverty line.
Unemployment is the cause of delinquencies, crimes, terrorism and all that. When we visited Kargil, we found that young people had become terrorists because of unemployment. These young people are being lured by the ISI by paying a sum of Rs. 18,000, Rs. 20,000 or Rs. 30,000 per month as salaries.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : Do you not want me to speak, Sir? We are an eleven-Member Party and we are ruling in Tamil Nadu. We are a big Party, Sir.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You also know the rules.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : How are you going to tackle this unemployment problem? Unless you tackle this problem, you cannot curb the terrorist activities. By using money, Pakistan is encouraging young people to become terrorists. Therefore, I would like the Finance Minister to provide employment to these youth. You have to provide employment to every young citizen of this country. If you are not able to provide employment, then you cannot curb such activities in the society.
Recently, a white paper was laid on the floor of the Tamil Nadu Legislative Assembly. The share of Tamil Nadu in the Central taxes constitutes an important component of the overall revenue receipts of the Government. Successive Finance Commissions appointed by the Government of India have denied the State its due share in the devolution of Central taxes. This is evident from the fact that the share of the Central taxes to the State government declined from 20 per cent in 1992-93 to 16 per cent in 1999-2000. The Eleventh Finance Commission has virtually penalised all the well-performing States like Tamil Nadu.
Sir, by recommending this reduction in the share of the State, the State stands to lose a sum of Rs. 2,946 crore. The Government is a body polity. It is a continuing process. It is the duty of the Central Government to compensate this loss and relieve the State of its economic strains.
Sir, finally I would come to rural development.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now. You have already taken 15 minutes.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : Sir, we have 16 Members of Parliament – 11 from the Lok Sabha and 5 from the Rajya Sabha.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Kindly co-operate.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : Rural development is an important component for the development of this country. The Government should give subsidy at the rate of Rs. 2,000 per household for rural sanitation. But now only Rs. 500 is being given. There is a change in the pattern of subsidy. In 1999-2000, it was Rs. 2000 per year for individual households and now in the year 2000-2001 it has been reduced to Rs. 500 per year per household. The old subsidy pattern, as existed in the year 2000, should be restored for the benefit of the rural people. It is because, the Government should be a Government for the poor people; it should be a representative of the poor people and it should be the representative of the common man. It is because we have been elected to this House by the common man of this country.
Sir, I will support these Supplementary Demands because I have no other alternative but to support it.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, I am calling the name of another person. Shri Namdeo Diwate.
SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : Sir, I support the Supplementary Demands.
श्री नामदेव हरबाजी दिवाथे (चिमूर) : सभापति महोदय, मैं २००१-२००२ की जो अनुपूरक मांगें हैं उस पर कृषि मंत्रालय, पर्यावरण और वन मंत्रालय तथा सूचना और प्रसारण मंत्रालय पर बोलना चाहता हूं। हम चाहे सांसद हों या सामान्य जनता, कहीं न कहीं किसानी से जुड़े हुए हैं। रोटी, कपड़ा और मकान - ये तीनों चीजें ऐसी हैं जिसके कारण कहीं न कहीं हम किसानी से जुड़े हुए हैं। इसलिए किसानों की समस्याओं के ऊपर हमें गंभीरता से विचार करना चाहिए। किसान चाहे अतिवृष्टि हो या अनावृष्टि वह अकाल की चपेट में हर साल आ जाता है। बाढ़ आती है या अकाल पड़ता है तो वह कर्जे की दलदल में फंस जाता है। हम बाढ़ और अकाल से तो उसको ऊपर लाने का प्रयत्न करते हैं लेकिन कर्जे से उसको ऊपर लाने का प्रयत्न नहीं करते हैं। इसलिए आज आवश्यकता इस बात की है कि उसकी कर्जे से मुक्ति का उपाय हमें खोजना चाहिए। माननीय अर्थ-मंत्री जी ने १९९६ में जो जवाब दिया है वह मेरे पास है। जब वे ३९ कारखानेदारों का कर्जा माफ कर सकते हैं, Government Liabilities pending Excise and Customs Duty का २२ हजार ४९० करोड़ रुपया माफ कर दिया गया है और उसी तरह से २७ बैंकों का ३९३५० करोड़ रुपया माफ कर दिया गया है, तो वह माफ कैसे कर दिया गया? उन्होंने यह तो लिखा है कि देय राशियों के लिए सभी संभव उपाय कर लिये गये हैं, परन्तु ऋण वसूली की कोई और संभावना नहीं है। इसे बट्टेखाते में डालना या समझौता करने में बैंक का अधिक हित है। टाटा ग्रुप्स से २३९१८ करोड़ रुपए, बॉरोईंग फरौंम इंडियन बैंक ऐंड इंस्टीटयूशन, इनकम टैक्स एक्स्ट्रा, गवर्नमैंट लायबिल्टीज पैंडिंग एक्साइज डयूटी ऐंड कस्टम डयूटी इन करोड इज ८२० करोड । बिड़ला ग्रुप्स ऐंड ऑल ग्रुप्स कम्पनीज के २१५२० करोड़ रुपए उसने वार दिये है। ७५३ करोड़ रुपए की लायबिल्टीज एक्साइज डयूटी में पैडिंग हैं। इसी तरह ३९ कारखानेदारों पर २२४९० करोड रूपये बकाया हैं। इसी तरह २७ बैंकों का ३९३४९.९६ करोड रूपये अनुपयोज्य हैं। इसी तरह से स्टेट पब्लिक सैक्टर इंटरप्राइसेज की कम्पनियां वभिन्न राज्यों में हैं। उन्हें सबसिडी दी जाती है लेकिन ये पूर्णत: घाटे में हैं। आन्ध्रा प्रदेश में ४४४४ करोड़ रुपए में से इनवैस्टमैंट से १८९४ करोड़ रुपए का घाटा है। असम में ३६७७ करोड़ रुपए में से इनवैस्टमैंट से २३१४ करोड़ रुपए का घाटा है। गोवा में ४८१९ करोड़ रुपए में से ७३० करोड़ रुपए का घाटा है। भारतीय लोगों के ४३ लाख करोड रुपए स्विस बैंक में है। इसमें से कई लोग मर गए हैं। ये सारा काला धन है। ३१ दिसम्बर १९९९ के अनुसार हर्षद मेहता की तरफ २४२३ करोड़ रुपए, हितेन दलाल की तरफ १४०३.७५ करोड़ रुपए आयकर में डूब गए। पियरलैस जनरल फाइनेन्स, ओएनजीसी, आश्विन मेहता, रामास्वामी और ज्योति मेहता के ७७२७ करोड़ रुपए आयकर के अन्तर्गत डूब गए हैं। यदि इनका कर्जा माफ कर सकते हैं तो आप किसानों का भी कर्जा माफ कर सकते हैं क्योंकि आप किसानों से जुड़े हैं। इस पर गम्भीरता से विचार किया जाए। किसानों को कर्ज के दलदल से निकाला जाए। इसमें आपका ज्यादा पैसा खर्च नहीं होगा।
राज्य विद्युत बोर्डों पर ३० हजार करोड़ रुपया बकाया है। किसानों को समर्थन मूल्य के भाव बहुत कम मिलते हैं। यदि किसी किसान ने एक एकड़ में धान की उपज पैदा की तो उस पर साढ़े छ: हजार रुपए का खर्चा होता है। वह उसमें चार भाग खाद डालता है तो उस पर १३०० रुपए खर्च होते हैं, ७०० रुपए बीज पर, एक हजार रुपए रोपाई पर, एक हजार रुपए निंदण पर, दवा पर एक हजार रुपए, पानी पर ५०० रुपए, कुल मिला कर लगभग ६५०० रुपए का खर्चा होता है और उत्पादन पांच हजार रुपए का होता है यानी १५०० रुपए का एक एकड़ में घाटा होता है। कहीं अनावृष्टि, कहीं अतिवृष्टि के कारण और समर्थन मूल्य न मिलने के कारण हर समय घाटा होता है। किसान को ज्यादा नहीं तो कम से एक हजार रुपए प्रति क्िंवटल मिलें तो वह अपना खर्चा निकाल सकता है।
इसी तरह से पर्यावरण एवं वन संवर्धन कानून है। इसकी बहुत सी योजनाएं लंबित हैं। नागपुर की ७५ सिंचाई योजनाएं हैं जिस में ३ लाख २४ हजार ३०९ हैक्टेयर सिंचाई क्षमता है। आवश्यक वन क्षेत्र ११२५२ हैक्टेयर है। अमरावती में नौ योजनाएं ऐसी हैं जो अभी तक पैंडिंग हैं।८.२.२००० को मुख्य वन संरक्षक, केन्द्रीय पर्यावरण व वन, भोपाल को पत्र भेजा गया लेकिन अभी तक इस बारे में मान्यता नहीं मिली है। मेरा सुझाव है कि उसे मान्यता दी जाये जिससे किसान जो पानी के कारण डूबते हैं, वे बच सकें और उन लोगों की फसल अच्छी हो।
सभापति महोदय, पेशवारी व्यवस्था का बदलना आवश्यक है। सरकार का नियम है कि यदि एक एकड़ में १० क्िंवटल धान हुआ तो फसल १०० प्रतिशत अच्छी हुई लेकिन उसे कोई सहूलियत नहीं मिलती। इसलिये मेरी विनती है कि शासन का यह नियम रहे कि एक एकड़ में ३० क्िंवटल धान हो तो किसानों को कुछ सहूलियत मिल सकती है। इसलिये पुरानी पेशवारी व्यवस्था बदली जाये।
सभापति महोदय, प्रसारण के माध्यम से पहले जो खबरें आती थीं, उसके मुताबिक सरकार बताती रही है कि कितना पैसा कहां से आया है और कहां देती है लेकिन किसानों के कर्जे माफ करना संभव नहीं। सरकार को इस ओर गौर करना चाहिये और किसानों के कर्जे माफ करने चाहिये।
सभापति महोदय, मेरा अंतिम सुझाव यह है कि सरकार विदेशी खेलों को महत्व देती है, जैसे क्रिकेट को टी.वी. पर स्थान देती है लेकिन देसी खेल रेसिंग तथा- कबड्डी, खो-खो को नहीं दिखाती। सरकार इस ओर ध्यान दे। देशी खेल कम से कम खबरों में दो मिनट तो दिखायें ।
आपने मुझे बोलने का समय दिया, इसके लिये धन्यवाद।
डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह (वैशाली): सभापति महोदय, माननीय वित्त मंत्री ३७०९ करोड़ ३७ लाख रुपये की सप्लीमैंटरी डिमांड्स फार ग्रांट्स की मंजूरी के लिये बिल लाये हैं और साथ-साथ एप्रोप्रिएशन बिल लाये हैं ताकि खज़ाने से रूपया निकालने की इज़ाजत दी जाये लेकिन इसमें पेंच यह है कि देश भर का हर एक वर्ग तबाह है, चाहे नौकरी वाला हो, बेरोज़गार हो, किसान हो, मजदूर हो, गरीब हो या गांव में रहने वाला हो। हर कोई तबाह है और एक भी वर्ग सुखी नहीं है। केवल बड़े लोगों और एम.एन.सीज. वाले धन संजोये हुये हैं और खुशहाल हैं। यह सब हिसाब जोड़ करने के बाद जांच से पता चलता है।
सभापति महोदय, मांग संख्या ७८ में वित्त मंत्री जी पर्यटन संस्कृति की अनुपूरक मांग लेकर आये हैं। बिहार में इंडस्टि्रयल कमीशन बैठा है जिसकी रिपोर्ट माननीय वित्त मंत्री जी को मिल गई होगी। उसमें बहुत विस्तार से लिखा है। लेकिन मैं उसके मुख्य अंश पढ़कर सुनाता हूं जो टूरिज्म सैक्टर से संबंधित है:
"Industrial Development Imperative for Bihar and Jharkhand"
"According to World Travel and Tourism Council (WTTC), the Tourism Industry during the next ten years will create 70 lakh new jobs in India out of which 3.6 lakh could be in Bihar and Jharkhand. "
देश भर में अगले दस सालों में पर्यटन क्षेत्र में ७० लाख रोजगार पैदा होंगे जिसमें से ३ लाख ६० हजार बिहार और झारखंड में होंगे। इस साल भगवान महावीर की जन्म शताब्दी मनायी जा रही है और सरकार ने फैसला लिया है , प्रधान मंत्री जी की अध्यक्षता में राष्ट्रीय स्तर की एक कमेटी बनी, जिसमें बहुत से जैन लोग, विद्वान, काबिल लोग, माननीय सांसद एवं वभिन्न मंत्रीगण भी हैं । उसमें प्रधान मंत्री जी ने ऐलान किया था कि सौ करोड़ रुपया हम भगवान महावीर की २६००वीं जयन्ती पर देंगे । लेकिन सप्लीमैन्टरी बजट में पचास करोड़ रूपये का आबंटन आपने मांग संख्या ७८ में किया है । इसमें से पचास करोड़ रुपया कहां गायब हो गया । सप्लीमैन्टरी बजट में सौ करोड़ रुपये रहना चाहिए था । चूंकि बजट के बाद बैठक हुई थी । श्री धनंजय कुमार उसमें सदस्य हैं और वभिन्न मंत्रीगण भी हैं । सभी लोगों को उस बैठक के बारे में याद होगा कि जिसमें कहा गया था कि २६००वीं जयन्ती पर हम सौ करोड़ रुपये खर्च करेंगे । जिसमें से कुल पचास करोड़ रुपया आया है, शेष पचास करोड़ रुपया कहा गया । इसलिए मैं यह सवाल उठा रहा हूं कि भगवान महावीर का जन्म हमारे यहां वैशाली में हुआ था और निर्वाण भी वहीं पावापुरी में हुआ था । आज से २६०० वर्ष पहले वहीं से सत्य, अहिंसा और महावृत का संदेश चला था । तत्कालीन राष्ट्रपति डा.राजेन्द्र प्रसाद ने १९५६ में वहां जाकर शिलान्यास किया था । वहां प्राकृत जैन इंस्टीटयूट भी चलता है । प्रधान मंत्री जी ने बैठक में ऐलान किया था कि वैशाली में जो काम अधूरा है, जिसके लिए राजेन्द्र बाबू उस समय शिलान्यास के लिए गये थे, वह पूरा किया जायेगा। प्रोजेक्ट रिपोर्ट बनकर आई है। लेकिन हमारा रुपया कहां गायब हो गया । पचास करोड़ रुपया बिहार को इस काम के लिए और मिलना चाहिए था, वह कहां गया । वहां भगवान महावीर की धरती, निर्वाण की धरती है । सौ करोड़ रुपये का आधा हिस्सा हमें मिला और आधा गायब हो गया । अब पचास करोड़ रुपये में से कितने रुपये मिलेंगे, उसका झंझट पड़ेगा। श्री धनंजय कुमार रहेंगे तो लगता है कि भिडन्त करनी पड़ेगी।
सभापति महोदय, मेरा आग्रह है कि बिहार के टूरिज्म के बारे में सरकार को पर्याप्त ध्यान देना चाहिए । इस पर वल्र्ड टूरिज्म और बिहार की भी रिपोर्ट है । आप जानते हैं कि हम बंटवारे के लिए मना कर रहे थे कि राज्यों के बंटवारें का काम मत कीजिए । इसके कारण उत्तर प्रदेश में हरित प्रदेश की मांग उठी है, आपको देना पड़ेगा। उत्तर प्रदेश बहुत बड़ा प्रदेश है, आप उसके दो भाग कीजिए या तीन भाग कीजिए । अब सवाल उठ गया है, नहीं तो वहां लड़ाई होगी । मध्य प्रदेश में भिंड प्रदेश की पुरानी मांग है। आंध्रा प्रदेश में तेलंगाना के प्रश्न पर भारी आंदोलन हुआ था, नियम-कायदे कहते हैं कि उसे बांटना पड़ेगा। महाराष्ट्र को भी बांटना पड़ेगा । आपने जिस तरह के काम किये हैं वे भुगतने पड़ेगे । आपको बोड़ो लैन्ड भी देना पड़ेगा, गोरखा लैंड का भी सवाल उठ खड़ा हुआ है। आज देश भर में बंटवारे के सवाल उठ खड़े हुए हैं। हम मना कर रहे थे कि यह काम मत करिये, लेकिन राजनीतिक कारणों ने इन्होंने बंटवारा कर दिया । आदिवासियों के नाम पर झारखंड बनाया, वहां आदिवासियों की आज क्या स्थिति है । अभी हाल ही की रिपोर्ट है कि लोग वहां पश्चाताप कर रहे हैं । वहां की जनता और आदिवासियों की क्या दुर्दशा है । जबकि मध्य प्रदेश के बंटवारे के समय छत्तीसगढ़ के लोगों के बारे में कहा गया था कि आदिवासियों का बड़ा भारी कल्याण होने वाला है। उस क्षेत्र से हमारे सदस्य आते हैं। वहां अभी यह स्थिति है कि आदिवासी महिलाओं की जमीन हड़पने के आरोप में स्टील कम्पनी पर कार्रवाई होनी चाहिए । जिंदल स्टील एंड पावर लि. उद्योग, रायगढ़ पर १७० ख, सीलिंग एक्ट अवैध भूमि अधिग्रहण नियम के उल्लंघन, भू मुआवजा नौकरी न देना, सिंचाई डैम हड़पना, आदिवासियों की जमीनों को हथियाने जैसे मामलों में कठोर और त्वरित कार्रवाई की मांग है । छत्तीसगढ़ में चार-पांच जिले आदिवासी जिले थे, लेकिन उन्हें मध्य प्रदेश में रहने दिया । आप हमसे ज्यादा जानते हैं कि मंडला आदि आदिवासी जिले हैं, जिन्हें उधर नहीं आने दिया तथा जो आदिवासी हैं उनकी जमीनें स्टील फैक्टरी वाले हड़प रहे हैं । हमने शुरू में कहा था कि इसमें केवल पूंजीपतियों की पौ-बारह है और शेडयूल्ड कास्ट्स और शेडयूल्ड ट्राइब्स के तमाम लोग तबाही और कष्ट की स्थिति हैं ।
सभापति महोदय, हम संक्षेप में कहेंगे कि रसायन, पैट्रो-रसायन और उर्वरक विभाग में संख्या पांच और छ: में इन्होंने कहीं दस करोड़, कहीं पांच करोड़ और कहीं ३६ करोड़ की मांग की है । लेकिन हम सवाल उठाना चाहते हैं कि सिन्दरी फर्टीलाइजर फैक्टरी बिहार में थी, अब वह झारखंड में चली गई, नामरूप, सिन्दरी इन दोनों की एक साथ रिपोर्ट हुई थी। एक्सपर्ट कमेटी ने कहा था कि रिहैबिलीटेशन प्रोग्राम नामरूप में लागू हो गया , लेकिन सिंदरी में क्यों नहीं लागू हुआ? एक ही समति ने रिपोर्ट लागू की। वह कब लागू होगी? वह बंद होने के कगार पर है, उसके रीहैबलिटेशन प्रोग्राम का क्या हुआ, माननीय मंत्री महोदय बताने की कृपा करें।
इसी तरह से परभनी फर्टिलाइज़र बंद है, वह कब चालू होगा? गोरखपुर में कृभको ने कहा कि हम फैक्ट्री वहां खोलना चाहते हैं। कौन सी ऐसी शक्ति है जिसने कैबिनेट स्तर पर जाकर उसे रोक दिया? कौन सी ऐसी अमानवीय शक्ति बैठी है? क्या उधर पश्चिम में समुंदर के उस पार की शक्ति चलती है यहां की कैबिनेट पर? कृभको खुशी से कह रहा है कि हम खोलना चाहते हैं, लेकिन नहीं खोलने दिया जा रहा है। अमझोर बिहार में है। वहां सल्फर और सल्फेट का कितना अच्छा कारखाना है लेकिन वह बंदी के कगार पर है। आई.डी.पी.एल. मुजफ्फरपुर में है। इन्होंने ३६ करोड़ रुपये की मांग की है। बंगाल इम्यूनिटी लमिटेड के लिए ६.७९ करोड़ की मांग की गई है। स्मिथ एक्सैटैसी फार्मैस्यूटिकल्स लमिटेड में भी मांग की है। मुजफ्फरपुर का आई.डी.पी.एल. कब चालू होगा, उसमें क्यों नहीं रुपया दे रहे हैं? इसमें क्यों भेदभाव हो रहा है?
अब मैं मांग संख्या २७ पर आता हूं - राज्यों और संघ राज्य क्षेत्रों की सरकारों को अंतरण। इसमें बिहार पर कर्ज़ा बाकी है। सबने कहा कि बिहार की आर्थिक हालत खराब है, बंटवारे के बाद हम उसकी मदद करेंगे और मदद के लिए हमने मांग भी की। प्रधान मंत्री के पास सभी पार्टियों के बिहार के लोग जिनमें मंत्री भी थे, लोक सभा और राज्य सभा दोनों के सदस्य गए और जाकर प्रार्थना की और पत्र दिया। उसमें पहले नंबर यह था कि बिहार का केन्द्र पर जो बकाया कर्जा है उसको माफ कीजिए। उसमें तथ्य, सच्चाई और उसका आधार है क्योंकि अभी आठवीं, नवीं पंचवर्षीय योजना का आकार सबसे छोटा हुआ। कारण यह है कि रिसोर्सेज़ का अभाव है, कारण यह है कि खर्चा कम हुआ। इन सब कारणों से योजना का आकार छोटा हुआ। फिर सेन्ट्रली स्पॉन्सर्ड स्कीम्स का हिसाब जोड़कर देखा जाए तो ५००० करोड़ रुपया नौवीं पंचवर्षीय योजना में देश भर के सभी राज्यों को दिया गया। उससे बिहार का हिस्सा कम से कम ५०० करोड़ रुपये होना चाहिए लेकिन आबंटन केवल ५० करोड़ रुपये हुआ और मिला केवल २५ करोड़ रुपये। मतलब पौने पांच सौ करोड़ रुपया एक विभाग में है, हरेक विभाग का मूल्यांकन मंत्री जी करें। हमने योजना आयोग से भी लिखा-पढ़ी की। प्रधान मंत्री जी से भी लिखा-पढ़ी की है कि बिहार पर जो कर्ज़ा है, चूंकि योजना का आकार छोटा होता गया, इसमें वहां की जनता का क्या कुसूर है। वहां की जनता के हित में, गरीबों के हित में और हिन्दुस्तान की मुख्यधारा में बिहार भी रहे, उसके लिए बिहार का कर्जा माफ होना चाहिए। उसे कहा गया कि तमाम इकोनॉमिकल इंडीकेटर जांच करके देख लीजिए। अभी इन्होंने फेवर किया है। उत्तराखंड को विशेष राज्य का दर्जा दिया गया, लेकिन बिहार का भी इकोनॉमिकल इंडीकेटर जांच कर लीजिए तो १०-११ राज्यों का पहले से है और नये राज्यों को इन्होंने दिया है, आर्थिक सूचकांक के हिसाब से बिहार को भी विशेष राज्य का दर्जा मिलना चाहिए। नंबर तीन बात - आर्थिक पेकेज के लिए वहां सभी पार्टियों के सदस्यों ने कही। विधान मंडल ने सर्वसम्मति से पास करके प्रस्ताव भेजा था और यहां सदस्य मौन बैठे रहते हैं। ये सारे सवाल हमने प्रधान मंत्री जी को दिये थे, पिछले नवंबर में, नौ-दस महीने हो गए। उन्होंने कहा था कि माननीय वित्त मंत्री जी उसको देखेंगे और माननीय वित्त मंत्री जी से हम लोगों की बात हुई है यह प्रधान मंत्री जी ने जिज्ञासा की थी।
प्रधान मंत्री ग्रामोदय योजना में, राज्य आयोजना स्कीमों के लिए अनुदान को सेन्ट्रली स्पॉन्सर्ड स्कीम में इन्होंने भेज दिया है। उसमें माननीय सदस्यों को जानकारी भी नहीं होगी कि राज्य से सड़क बनकर चली आती है और उसी को प्रधान मंत्री ग्रामीण सड़क योजना में लिख देते हैं। जो माननीय सदस्य इस सदन में बैठे हैं, प्रधान मंत्री ग्राम सड़क योजना और प्रधान मंत्री ग्रामोदय योजना में उनकी क्या हैसियत है, कहीं पता नहीं है, उनको सूचना और जानकारी भी नहीं दी जाती है। इसलिए जो प्रधान मंत्री ग्राम सड़क योजना और प्रधान मंत्री ग्रामोदय योजना में माननीय सदस्यों की भागीदारी है, उसको सुनिश्चित किया जाए।
१५.०० hrs. (अध्यक्ष महोदय पीठासीन हुए) अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप डिमांड्ज़ के बारे में कुछ नहीं कह रहे हैं?
डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : मैं वही कह रहा हूं। जो राज्य पीछे छूट गया है, जिनके गांव ज्यादातर सड़कों से नहीं जोड़े जा सके हैं, उनको विशेष तरजीह दी जानी चाहिए। हमने सवाल पूछा है, उसमें देखा है कि बराबर हिसाब से लोग बात कर रहे हैं कि जिस राज्य के कई गांव सड़क से जुड़ गए, उनको भी उतनी ही राशि और जिनके बहुत ज्यादा गांव बचे हुए हैं, उनको भी उतनी ही राशि। इसलिए प्रधान मंत्री ग्रामोदय योजना में जो ज्यादा आबादी वाले गांव छूटे हुए हैं, उनको ज्यादा तरजीह दी जानी चाहिए। ये सारे सवाल सप्लीमेटरी डिमांड्ज़ फॉर ग्रांट्स पर बहस के माध्यम से मैं उठा रहा हूँ। माननीय मंत्री जी कृपा कर इन पर सहानुभूतिपूर्वक विचार करें, इनको मानने की कृपा करें और उसका उत्तर भी दें, इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करता हूँ।
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Nitish Sengupta.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: We have given three hours for this item. We do not have any time left.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Where is the time left, Shri Dasmunsi? Please tell me.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI: Sir, you consider the strength of the NDA and the Opposition. How many Members have spoken from the Opposition? ..… (Interruptions) It is not correct.
MR. SPEAKER: But where is the time?
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Whatever time is allotted should be appropriately used and rationalised between the NDA and the Opposition. Sir, you kindly calculate as to how many have spoken from the NDA and how many from the Opposition side….… (Interruptions)
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह (महाराजगंज, बिहार) : समता पार्टी के एक भी माननीय सदस्य को बोलने का मौका नहीं मिला।
अध्यक्ष महोदय : प्रभुनाथ जी, समय किधर है?
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : हमारे यहां से अरुण कुमार जी का नाम था।
अध्यक्ष महोदय : उनका नाम बुलाया गया था, वे यहां नहीं थे।
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : अब वे आ गए हैं। थोड़ा तो हमारा ख्याल रखिये।
अध्यक्ष महोदय : समय नहीं है।
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please understand that we have the Budget of Manipur also to be passed. I would give each Member about 2-3 minutes to speak. Otherwise, it would be very difficult to complete the business and it has to go to the other House also to get passed.
DR. NITISH SENGUPTA (CONTAI): Sir, while I rise to support the Supplementary Demands for Grants, I feel that I should express some of my serious concerns because I notice that the way after the ‘dream Budget’ was presented three months ago, and we also hailed it as a ‘dream Budget’, a lot of expectations or assumptions have not been really fulfilled during the working of the economy during the last three to four months. I have got about six serious areas of concern where I feel that the Government should give absolutely topmost attention immediately. This is no longer a case of wake-up call or alarm bell but it is a question of fire-fighting.
First comes the fiscal deficit. Even after these Supplementary Demands for Grants, in the first quarter itself, the fiscal deficit would have reached the proportion of 4.8 per cent of the GDP as against the Budget projection of 4.7 per cent. At this rate, unless it is controlled from now on, I am afraid that it will go to a formidable proportion by the time the financial year ends.
My second point is on the growing revenue shortfall. According to a publication by the Centre for Monitoring the Indian economy, industrial production has reached a low of 1.9 per cent this quarter. It is a very serious matter. It is not expected to rise more than 4.5 per cent in the current fiscal year. Figures on direct and indirect tax collections for the first quarter of 2001-02 appear to bear out this forecast. The Union Budget for the current financial year was based on a rise of 14 per cent but actually it has been 13 per cent less during the first quarter. Corporate tax collection, a direct indicator of the profitability of industry, decreased by 63 per cent. And look at the way of corporate results! Most of the companies have recorded negative profits. This is a very serious matter. Then, we come to the question of serious demand recession which is an all-pervading phenomenon. Today, we are facing a demand recession that we have never had for the last so many years.
There is a demand recession for both consumer goods and capital goods, partly because companies are not producing and partly because of this tremendous invasion of imported products, especially from China. They are taking advantage of the shortfall in the customs duty announced during the last Budget. We should wake up and take serious note of this point. The Government and the industry should take serious note of the demand recession. Here, I must blame the captains of the industry because they always complain about Government’s interference, but when they fail to sell their products, they run to the Government. They have been, for years, brought up like toddlers by the Government. Now, suddenly if the Government throws them into the midstream and ask them to swim on their own, I am afraid, they cannot swim. They will either get drowned or be eaten up by sharks. This is the fate of average industries. When I am talking about recession, I am talking as a teacher of management. My impression is that the entire phenomenon of recession is really confined only to six or seven metropolitan cities of this country. Beyond that there is a vast rural India where there is no recession. It is only the inability of our companies to market their products through proper marketing and take their products to villages, which account for most of the recession.
Talking about cement and steel, here again I feel that the Government must set up teams to see that as to why there is recession on such a massive scale in these industries and try to see what the Government can do about it. The Prime Minister’s Super Highway Scheme would go a long way in reducing the recession in cement and steel industry. Merely giving an assurance is not enough. We want to see that these schemes are actually implemented. In quite a lot of things, the Government must set up teams to advance their purchase programmes, instead of waiting till the end of the year. They should start purchasing even now because there is no time to lose any more. Why can we not tell the steel industry to go into house building? In the U.K., 82 per cent of the house construction is accounted for by the steel products, whereas in India it is only about 10 per cent. We go on wasting scarce resources, like timber and other forest reserves. Whatever steel has come into house building in India, it is in the nature of cottage industry. Why can’t SAIL and TATA go themselves on a massive scale in manufacturing steel materials for house construction? Why can cement companies not go into the question of road building and house construction? This is what is called forward integration.
Even now we are dependent to a great extent on the monsoon. In 1928 there was a Royal Commission on Agriculture which made a prophetic comment that India’s Budget is a gamble with the monsoon. I would like to remind the distinguished Finance Minister that probably even now we are not far away from the truth of that statement. The news papers say that probably a good monsoon will come to the rescue of the Government.
We come to the condition of the capital markets. It is lamentable. For the last one year, one has not seen a single public issue in the primary capital market. You yourself can understand the position. In the secondary market, the sudden ban on badla trading, I am afraid, has been a more drastic remedy than the disease. This has destroyed many of the broking houses. Many of them have closed down their offices. Acute unemployment has been created. Some of them have even committed suicide. If the capital market continues to be in this difficult stage, then what is going to happen to Government’s disinvestment programme? What is going to happen to foreign investment programme? On both counts, we fall far short of the targets that we have laid down during the Budget or around that period. Something has to be done to improve the capital market condition. The liquidity condition should improve. People should be able to sell when they want to sell their shares or buy when they wish to invest their money, which is not possible now. The common man has been driven out from the market. Therefore, I would suggest, Mr. Speaker, Sir, that let the hon. Finance Minister seriously think of reviving the old Controller of Capital Issue guidelines for valuation of shares. It is because the sudden abolition of capital issues control, along with the abolition of capital issue guidelines for fixing up the share prices, has really brought havoc in the capital market. We are talking about US-64. I am happy that the hon. Finance Minister has taken some energetic actions.
But, Sir, having dealt with the Unit Trust for five years, I can say this much. If it is true that the Unit Trust announced that the US-64 would no longer be on sale, without informing the Government, I am afraid, there was something very seriously wrong. If they informed the Ministry and if the Ministry did not care to inform the hon. Minister, I am afraid, some heads should have rolled by now. Both are very serious matters.
I would just give you one example about the entire issue about free pricing.
It has really played havoc. A new company called the Himachal Futuristic is there. Its shares were purchased by the Unit Trust of India at a price of Rs.1,419 crore. It is a new company. If the CCI guidelines are based on an average between the net assets value and the profitability were followed , there would have been no question of buying these shares on the basis of projections. The projections are all done by dishonest, greedy merchants, bankers and dishonest company promoters. On that basis, people have been duped. The Unit Trust was duped. In a new company, Rs.1429 crore were invested in shares. That was done on 30th June. By April, 20, 2001, the value came down to Rs.156 crore. Then, latest by June, in another few months time, it came down to something like Rs.70 crore or Rs.80 crore. … (Interruptions) This is the real issue. By allowing free pricing, we give a free run to all kinds of dishonest people. So, something must be done about this at this point of time.
Lastly, I am coming to a feature of the last Budget. It mentioned something about six public sector undertakings in West Bengal. Frankly speaking, I would say that the Budget need not have included those things. It could have been done separately. In fact, the last Budget played a very important role in the elections in my State. It happened in the last election. It has never happened before that the Central Budget became an election issue in the State. Take the case of Mining and Allied Machinery. The initial investment decision was very wrong. It never made a profit. The coal industry never accepted the product. The coal industry is a public sector undertaking. It never accepted the products. So, from the very beginning, this company was sick. Today, it has got enormous property. Instead of closing the factory, why not let the people go home and draw salary sitting at home, not coming to the factory? In general, that applies to all the sick public sector enterprises. Let the Government not announce closure. Let them say that at least everybody can go home and draw salary from there.
Now I come to revival of the industries. Why do you not allow the property and assets of MAMC to be used for the IT Industry. A lot of new information technology industries are looking for places in West Bengal. But they are trying to crowd around Calcutta. In Durgapur, the MAMC has a tremendous amount of property and houses. The IISCO has a sad story.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now.
DR. NITISH SENGUPTA : But the whole point is that about West Bengal, I think, we must do something about the industrial scenario. The Budget can play a very important role. It was a good decision for the Ministry of Urban Development to take over road construction work from the State. At least, in the case of West Bengal, this has been a right case.… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : In the next Budget, if they are not responding to your demands, you would withdraw from the NDA.… (Interruptions)
DR. NITISH SENGUPTA : I do not know whether my friends from the CPI (M) are there. … (Interruptions) The general pattern there is that whatever money they get from the Centre, they divert it through the Zila Parishads, to the cadres, and no project comes up. Year after year, it is just a story of shortfall.… (Interruptions)
Sir, with these words, I support the Supplementary Demands for Grants. I thank you very much for having given this opportunity.
SHRI PRABODH PANDA (MIDNAPORE) :Sir, I rise to oppose the Supplementary Demands for Grants which have been brought forward by the hon. Finance Minister before this House. I oppose them because the Grants are not being meant for revitalising the industry. To some extent, it has been narrated by the hon. Member Dr. Nitish Sengupta. He also told many things. About the revival decision of the industry, I do share his views.
This Government does not have a plan for providing jobs to the unemployed youth. Providing jobs to the unemployed youth has been talked about for so many years. It was claimed that one crore jobs would be provided to the unemployed youth but nothing is done so far. Not only that, no plan is being chalked out to recover the black money. No programme has been chalked out to recover the dues from the defaulters. So, I think that these Demands are nothing but to supplement the anti-people Budget of the Union Government. So, I oppose these Supplementary Demands for Grants.
May I refer to the statement made by the hon. Prime Minister earlier? He had optimistically declared that the rate of growth would be nine per cent but the reality is different. Due to time constraint, I am not going to quote the Report of the Central Statistical Institutions which shows that in every respect our progress is not satisfactory; in every sphere the situation is gradually deteriorating. So, I would like to draw your attention and, at the same time, the attention of the hon. Members of this august House that the economic scenario of our country is very bad; the economic independence of the country is at stake. The so-called liberalisation, globalisation and privatisation opened our economic assets to the penetration of foreign capital and even opened more scope to the domestic and foreign businesses. Many of our industries are at stake. Our agriculture is at stake. Removal of quantitative restrictions has put our agriculture at stake. In all respects, I would like to say that this Union Government has failed to revitalise our economic scenario and hence, I oppose these Supplementary Demands for Grants.
श्री अरुण कुमार (जहानाबाद): माननीय अध्यक्ष महोदय, मुझे अनुदानों की अनुपूरक मांगों पर बोलने के लिए आपने समय दिया, इसके लिए बहुत-बहुत धन्यवाद। यह बजट ऐसे समय आया है जब राष्ट्र बाढ़, सुखाड़ और कई तरह की प्राकृतिक आपदाओं से घिरा हुआ है। आज हमारे सामने गंभीर आर्थिक संसाधनों से जूझने का वक्त है। निश्चित तौर से जब पूरी दुनिया में आर्थिक मंदी का दौर चल रहा हो, वैसी परिस्थिति में हमारी सरकार ने अपने प्रयास से जिस वातावरण का निर्माण किया और इससे जो परिस्थिति बनी है उससे मुद्रास्फीति में कमी आई है तथा रुपए का मूल्य भी करीब-करीब स्थिर रखने में हम सफल रहे हैं। महोदय, हम आपके माध्यम से केवल दो-तीन सवालों की तरफ सरकार का ध्यान आकर्षित करना चाहेंगे, क्योंकि समय का अभाव है।
अध्यक्ष महोदय, विदेशी कर्जे से आज हम दबे हुए हैं और उससे मुक्त होने का हमें कोई उपाय निकालना होगा। विरासत में हमें बहुत कुछ मिला है और जो कर्जा हम लेते हैं उसकी अदायगी में ९० प्रतिशत राशि सूद में ही चली जाती है। इसलिए इस चक्र से हमें निकलने का प्रयास करना चाहिए और इससे निकलने के लिए हमें नॉन प्लान पर खर्च में हमें कटौती करनी चाहिए।
राज्यों में आज संसाधनों की कमी और डैफशिट फाइनेंस की स्थिति बनी हुई है और इसे भी हमें दुरुस्त करना चाहिए, नहीं तो इसके प्रतिकूल प्रभाव हम पर पड़ेंगे। लगभग ३५ हजार करोड़ रुपया वार्षिक भारत सरकार की ओर से और लगभग ५ हजार करोड़ रुपया राज्य सरकारों की ओर से गरीबी उन्मूलन पर खर्च हो जाता है। इसके बावजूद भी हम गरीबी रेखा से ऊपर नहीं उठ पा रहे हैं। कुछ इसमें कमी जरूर आई है लेकिन जब हम गांवों की स्थिति, खेत-खलिहानों की स्थिति, किसान और मजदूरों की स्थिति को देखते हैं तो हमें नहीं लगता है कि किसान और मजदूर की स्थिति गांव में अच्छी बनी है। उनकी स्थिति दिन पर दिन खराब होती जा रही है और खास करके मैं बिहार के बारे में कह रहा हूं।
बैंकों में सीडी रेशो ६० प्रतिशत होनी चाहिए लेकिन वह २० प्रतिशत पर आ गयी है। ऐसी परिस्थिति में जहां हम प्राइम मनिस्टर रोजगार योजना और अन्य माध्यमों से गांव में विकास की प्रक्रिया और स्वरोजगार की हम प्लॉनिंग करते हैं तो स्थिति साफ नहीं दिखती है। बेरोजगार नौजवानों की फौज बढ़ती जा रही है। जब से झारखंड बिहार से अलग हुआ है वहां की स्थिति कॉलोनी जैसी हो गयी है और वहां के लोग दिल्ली और दूसरे बड़े-बड़े शहरों में पलायन करके आ रहे हैं तथा उनके श्रम का जिस तरह से शोषण हो रहा है उसको आप देखेंगे तो लगता है कि यह लिब्रेलाइजेशन हमारे लिए अभिशाप हो रहा है। इस पर हमें गंभीरता से विचार करना चाहिए।
जब हम अपना आर्थिक मूल्यांकन करते हैं तो निश्चित रूप से मल्टी-नेशनल कंपनी में काम करने वाले आदमी की आमदनी और रिक्शा खींचने वाले आदमी की आमदनी का एवरेज सही तस्वीर प्रस्तुत नहीं करता है। निश्चित रूप से हमें इस बात की ओर गंभीरता से विचार करना चाहिए। आज विकास का आयाम कमजोर हुआ है और इसे मजबूत करने के लिए हमें गांवों पर ध्यान देना होगा जहां देश की बड़ी आबादी रहती है। वहां से जो पलायन हो रहा है उससे देश के सामने एक भयावह स्थिति पैदा होने वाली है चाहे वह नक्सलवाद के कारण हो या बेरोजगारी के कारण हो या कानून और व्यवस्था के कारण हो। इन सारी परिस्थितियों पर समेकित रूप से हमें विचार करना होगा। भारत की आत्मा गांव हैं, किसान और मजदूर हैं और जब तक उनको केन्द्र में रखकर नीतियों का निर्धारण आप नहीं करेंगे तब तक भारत की मूल समस्या और उसके निराकरण की ओर आप नहीं जा सकते हैं।
प्रधान मंत्री ग्रामीण सड़क योजना के माध्यम से और वभिन्न योजनाओं के माध्यम से सरकार ने इस दिशा में पहल की है। माननीय रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह जी बता रहे थे कि किस तरह से मध्य बिहार में…( व्यवधान)
मैं यह कह रहा था कि जिस तरह की स्थिति बिहार में बनी है, उसके लिए कौन जिम्मेदार है लेकिन इस पर बोलने का अभी वक्त नहीं है।
अध्यक्ष महोदय: ये सप्लीमैंटरी डिमांड्स हैं। बिहार के बारे में चर्चा नहीं हो रही है।
श्री अरुण कुमार : बिहार को निश्चित रूप से इस चक्र से निकालना होगा, जहां के लोग पिस रहे हैं। इन शब्दों के साथ मैं सप्लीमैंटरी डिमांड्स का समर्थन करते हुए अपनी बात समाप्त करता हूं।
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, I understand the time constraint and I want to cooperate with the Chair too. I would only request you to allow Shri Kyndiah, former Governor, for three minutes now, and Shri K.P. Singhdeo to put questions after the hon. Minister replies.
MR. SPEAKER: You can ask your Members to seek clarifications.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, Shri Kyndiah will speak for three-four minutes and Shri Singh Deo will put some questions.
कुंवर अखिलेश सिंह: महोदय, इन्हें बोलने का मौका दिया जाए।
MR. SPEAKER: You have no right to support him. You are the only person who is responsible for not allowing the Members to speak on Supplementary Demands for Grants yesterday.
डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :अध्यक्ष महोदय, इन्हें बोलने का चांस दिया जाए।
अध्यक्ष महोदय: क्या आप इनका नाम रिकमैंड कर रहे हैं?
…( व्यवधान)
श्री हरीभाऊ शंकर महाले: अध्यक्ष महोदय, मुझे भी बोलने का मौका दिया जाए।
अध्यक्ष महोदय: आप क्लैरफिकेशन्स के समय पूछ सकते हैं।
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, Shri Kyndiah is a former Governor and he is from the North-Eastern region. He will speak for five minutes only.
MR. SPEAKER: Your Members can seek clarifications from the hon. Minister.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, he will not take much time. Please allow him to speak.
MR. SPEAKER: In the BAC, we have allotted three hours for this and we have taken almost four hours. You have to change the Business Advisory Committee Rules.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, I agree with you, but with due respect to the hon. Speaker, I would request you to allow Shri Kyndiah for just five minutes.
MR. SPEAKER: All right, I can allow him for two minutes only.
SHRI P.R. KYNDIAH (SHILLONG): Mr. Speaker Sir, I rise to oppose the Supplementary Demands for Grants. I take this opportunity to raise certain issues that are of greater importance to the health of the economy of the country.
One of the malaises, which has inflicted the economy of the nation, to my mind, is regional imbalance; to be more precise, it is regional disparity. There are many areas and regions in the country which can claim to be the victims of regional disparity. But the North-Eastern region is not just a mere region where there is regional disparity, but it is a frontier region. It is surrounded by many countries like China, Myanmar and Bangladesh.
You will be surprised to know that till today the air links in the North-East, instead of increasing, have shrunk. There has been an air link shrinkage. I can give you the details. In 1980s, the number of stations air-linked was 19. In 1995, it was reduced to 13. Today it is only nine. Only nine stations are air-linked and most of the airfields are not operational, as a result of which, the Government of India, under the Ministry of Civil Aviation, have set up a Task Force. This Task Force was headed by Shri P.B. Jayakrishnan, the then Secretary, Civil Aviation.
His report was that in order to have regional connectivity and also connectivity with the mainland, there is need for inducting 50-seater planes. We have had a discussion with the Minister of Civil Aviation. All the North-East MPs were there. He has also responded to it, but he said that there was a financial crunch.
I was wondering why it is so. In the non-lapseable pool fund, which has been constituted only for the North East, there are plenty of funds. I am sure that the hon. Finance Minister knows about it. There should not be any difficulty to buy this 50-seat fleet as recommended by the Task Force.
Sir, you will be surprised to know that in the North East, even today, in the case of CD ratio – it is an institutional finance, which come under the direct charge of the Union Minister of Finance - the Credit Deficit ratio in the region is 29 per cent while the All India average is 62 per cent. In the case of Meghalaya, that is my own State, it is only 14 per cent. In the case of Nagaland, it is only 19 per cent. In the case of Arunachal Pradesh, it is only 7 per cent; and as a result of which, there is no investment. So much of deposits have been accrued to the bank. I would like the Finance Minister to look into this. I would request the Union Finance Minister, through you, sir, to apply his mind on one basic issue that what we need in the North East is skill. There is a Chinese proverb, which says: `Give a man a fish and you feed him for the day. But teach him how to fish and thereby you feed him for the lifetime.’ This is the key, which will apply to all over the country and particularly to the North East.
Sir, today, you will be surprised to know that in the farm sector, the flow of money for purchase of food items to North-East only comes to the tune of Rs.11,466 crore. Again, Sir, let us see what the Prime Minister’s package is. There were two projects for which the foundation stone was laid by the Prime Minister. In 1995, at Sibsagar, the Assam Gas Cracker Project foundation stone was laid. Till today, it has not seen the light of the day. Then again, the foundation for a bridge over Brahmaputra, Bofigil Dibrugarh was laid in 1996 by the Prime Minister. Nothing has been done about it. To the people of the North East, the Prime Minister represents the Centre. We do not care to which Party he belongs to. There is a crisis of credibility on the Centre as a whole. Therefore, it is time that the Government of India wakes up to this reality.
We met the Prime Minister in Shillong. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now.
SHRI P.R. KYNDIAH : I will take a few more minutes.
The Prime Minister announced a package of Rs. 10,507.29 crore. I have calculated that out of this amount, Rs. 6015.32 crore goes to three hydel projects. Besides, the funds for border fencing constitute Rs. 12.70 crore. The remaining is only 30 per cent. What the hon. Member, Shri Pandian has said is correct. Now, I would request the Finance Minister to see that this 30 per cent is invested for employment generation because the unemployment problem in the North East is very acute. It is these frustrated unemployed young men who take recourse to insurgency. This is my point. I would request the Finance Minister to look into this matter.
MR. SPEAKER: Now, the hon. Finance Minister.
… (Interruptions)
श्री हरीभाऊ शंकर महाले: अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं केवल दो मिनट चाहता हूं...
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप फाइनेंस मनिस्टर की स्पीच के बाद क्लैरफिकेशन पूछ सकते हैं, अभी नहीं।
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please understand that there is no time. After the Minister’s reply, you can seek clarifications.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI K.P. SINGH DEO (DHENKANAL): Please give me two minutes’ time.
MR. SPEAKER: You can ask after his reply. Hon. Members, please understand this.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Haribhau Shankar Mahale, please take your seat. I am not allowing you.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This will not go on record.
(Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.
(Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record. Please take your seat.
(Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER: Shri Haribhau Shankar Mahale, please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.
(Interruptions)* *Not Recorded MR. SPEAKER: Shri Sansma Khunggur Bwiswmuthiary, please take your seat.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Haribhau Shankar Mahale, this is too much. Please take your seat. What are you doing? Nothing should go on record.
(Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER: You are also a senior Member. Please understand that.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.
(Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
Not recorded.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI YASHWANT SINHA): Mr. Speaker, Sir I am grateful to the hon. Members who have taken part in this debate, starting with hon. Member, Shri Narayan Datt Tiwari who described his speech as Rachnatmak Virodh, constructive criticism. I shall endeavour to reply in the same spirit of constructive response.
The Demands for Supplementary Grants are nothing more than coming to Parliament with a statement of expenditure which could not have been anticipated at the time when we were preparing the Budget and take the approval of Parliament for incurring that expenditure. All the items that we have mentioned in the Supplementary Demands represent only those items which could not have been anticipated in the month of January when we were preparing the expenditure Budget of the Government of India. These are all subsequent developments. Therefore, I had to come to this House in the best tradition of parliamentary democracy and take the approval of this House for incurring this expenditure.
As far as the Demands themselves are concerned, as hon. Members have pointed out, the total is Rs.3,709.37 crore. Out of which, the cash outgo is only Rs.1,413.71 crore. The rest is expenditure which is matched by either receipts or recoveries or savings. So, this does not represent cash outgo from our Budget. The cash outgo portion is only a small portion of Rs.1,414 crore.
In the course of the discussion, however, naturally our hon. Members have taken this opportunity to raise a number of very important issues which we have to take note of and respond to. As these suggestions are constructive, we have to take them into account for our future endeavours.
15.40 hrs. (Mr Deputy Speaker in the Chair) It is very natural at this point of time – five months down the line from the Budget – to find out what exactly happened to the Budget announcements, to the Budget promises that were made by the Government and where do we stand today. There has been much talk of gloom and doom in the economy. After the presentation of the Budget, the description of the Budget as a ‘dream Budget’ is not my description. It does not form part of my Budget speech. I did not stand up before this House to say – ‘I am going to present to you a dream Budget’. This was a description given to the Budget by friends in the media. If today, some of them say, Members of the hon. house say, it is not a dream but it is a nightmare, they are – I will submit humbly – entitled to their opinion. It will be equally my duty to endeavour to put things in the proper perspective as I see them.
There are problems in the economy. Nobody can deny there are problems. It will not be my endeavour in the course of my reply to sweep any of the problems under the carpet. I shall try and present before this House as objective a point of view as is possible. You take the growth rate for the year 2000-2001. According to the latest estimates of the Central Statistical Organisation, we have ended the year with a supposed growth rate of 5.2 per cent. This has caused a great deal of dismay in the country because 5.2 per cent is not acceptable to the people of this country today. I think this is a very very good and happy sign that this country has reached a stage where the people are not prepared to accept a growth rate of 5.2 per cent. They consider it inadequate. Let us not forget that there have been periods in our history where the growth rate has been 2.5 per cent or 3.5 per cent. We had lived through that period. We have been happy about it. But now we have got used to higher growth rates and, therefore, 5.2 per cent – which is a quick estimate of the CSO as suggested by them – is something which is not acceptable.
I would like to take here a little bit of the time of the hon. House to remind that it was not the Government but it was the various assessing agencies which had – at various points of time – calculated what the growth rate last year could be. For instance, the Centre for Monitoring Indian Economy had, in the month of July last year, felt that the growth rate of the country could be as high as seven per cent; in January this year they revised it to 5.8 per cent; at the moment it turned out to be 5.2 per cent. We still have to get the final figures. The National Council of Applied Economic Research had predicted in April last year a growth rate of 7.1 per cent; they revised it in December and then in February this year to 6.1 per cent. The Reserve Bank of India said in April last year that the growth rate could be 6.5 to 7 per cent; in October they revised it downwards to 6 to 6.5 per cent. The CII had felt in April last year – I will come to that as hon. Member Shri Rupchand Pal has referred to it – that the growth rate for the year could be 6.5 to 7 per cent. Then, they subsequently revised it downwards. Why were these organisations or agencies which consist of experts, projecting much higher growth rates than what we actually achieved? It is because at the beginning of the year 2000, the picture was much rosier than it turned out to be true subsequently. What are the factors which intervened? We are all aware of the fact that during this period there was a very steep increase in the prices of international crude and petroleum products. I am reminded of that because I remember that in the meeting of the International Monetary Fund in April last year, the Chief Economist of IMF, Mr. Michael Musa had made a presentation to all the members of the IMF who were present in that meeting.
In that meeting, he was making an estimation of the impact of the high oil prices and he said that that was going to have a dampening impact on international growth rate, global growth rate. Then, he analysed the impact country-wise for all the important countries, in which he mentioned India also. He said that as far as India was concerned, he expected the growth rate to decline by a 100 basis points one percentage point as a result of the international oil price rise.
As recently as January this year, the CSO, whose figures all of us use, had come out with an estimation of the growth rate for the current year at six per cent. The six per cent growth rate figure, which was used in the Economic Survey and which was used in my Budget Speech, was not a figure which we had contrived; it was the figure which was given by the CSO, and it is the same CSO which has come out with a figure of 5.2 per cent.
Sir, apart from the petroleum price rise, we had the additional factor, the global factor of the tech-wreck, as they call it, the crash of technology stocks all over the world. It was a big engine of growth in many economies, especially in the US economy, and technology stocks, technology sector has crashed so considerably that it has had its impact on the stock markets in the US. We know where Nasdaq was and where it is now.
Additionally, as we also know that, we have had a very flat growth rate year as far as agriculture in our country is concerned. The estimated growth rate of agriculture according to CSO in 2000-2001 is 0.2 per cent. It is almost a flat growth rate. Therefore, the foodgrains production is estimated to have come down by something like 12 million tonnes - from something like 209 million tonnes to about 196 million tonnes. This is the estimation. We have not felt all this because we still have very large stock of foodgrains. But in a normal year, a decline of 12 million tonnes in foodgrains production would have had the kind of impact which this country has seen in earlier years.
I do not claim to be an economist, but it occurred to me that we have gone through the periods of steep rise in international oil prices on three earlier occasions, besides the current one. What has been the impact of petroleum price increase on growth rate on our current account deficit, on our foreign exchange reserves and on inflation, on price rise? Sir, I have tried to collect figures. You will recall that the first oil crunch came in 1973-74. What happened? I am taking the Wholesale Price Index. In 1973-74, the Wholesale Price Index increased by 20.2 per cent. In 1974-75, because the lag-effect continued, it increased by 25.2 per cent. Similarly, in 1980-81, which was again a crisis year from the petroleum prices point of view, the rate of inflation, the Wholesale Price Index increased by 18.2 per cent. In 1990-91 and 1991-92, which were the third crisis years from the petroleum prices point of view, the rate of inflation was 10.3 per cent in 1990-91 and went up to 13.7 per cent in 1991-92. I would suggest that we should count our blessings in this year.
DR. NITISH SENGUPTA : There is a basic difference between the position in 1991-92 and this year. In 1991-92, we were facing a crunch in foreign exchange reserves while this year, we are flushed with foreign exchange reserves.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, in 1999-2000, when the crude oil prices started rising, especially in the year 2000, the rate of inflation was 3.3 per cent. In 2000-2001, it was 7.2 per cent -- I am talking of the annual average -- and in 2001-2002, currently, the week-to-week average rate of inflation is around 5.5 per cent. It alternates between 5 per cent and 5.5 per cent.
The major contributory factor to this increase in inflation has been the increase in the cost of fuel, power, light and lubricants; and we have the additional factor here. Many of the State Governments, and rightly so, are taking some very welcome steps to reform the power sector. They are raising the electricity charges, the power charges, and because the electricity also falls in the category of fuel, power, light and lubricants, that is also a contributory factor in this increase.
Similarly, as far as growth rate is concerned, you will find that it came down from 4.6 per cent in 1973-74 to only 1.2 per cent in 1974-75. It came down from 7.2 per cent in 1980-81 to 6 per cent in 1981-82. It had come down from 5.6 per cent in 1990-91 to just 1.3 per cent in 1991-92. This year, we are just experiencing a decline in growth rate, that is, from 6.4 per cent in 1999-2000 to 5.2 per cent this year.
Similarly, as has been pointed out by Dr. Nitish Sengupta, we have not faced any crisis, any problem, on the foreign exchange front. In fact, what has happened is that we have gone on adding to our foreign exchange reserves which, today, according to the latest release of the Reserve Bank of India, stand at US $ 44.5 billion.
So, if we were to count our blessings, I would say that even in this difficult situation, let us not forget that we have foreign exchange reserves which are at a record high. This is a level which has never been achieved. … (Interruptions)
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGLY): Can it be considered as stable?
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: We have discussed this issue. I would like to assure Shri Rupchand Pal and I would like to assure this House that even at the height of the East Asian crisis -- there are many crises around in the world today; Argentina is in crisis, Brazil is in crisis, Turkey is in crisis, and nearer home, Pakistan is in crisis, Sri Lanka is in crisis; they are facing balance of payments problem -- the so-called volatile deposits have not been withdrawn from India. Therefore, I would say that they are stable.
As far as the balance of payment front is concerned, we are extremely comfortable with large reserves, the largest that this country has ever seen.
As far as the rate of inflation is concerned, inflation is under check. Today, at least, nobody is complaining about unconscionable, intolerable price rise in this country. … (Interruptions)
SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHI (VISAKHAPATNAM): Price rise is there.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: I will go by the statistics. You can give your own experience कि टमाटर का दाम बढ़ गया है कहीं पर, and I can give my own experience. I go by the overall statistics by which we judge this. … (Interruptions)
DR. NITISH SENGUPTA : Why are you allowing the IMF to maintain its office in India?
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: We are members of the IMF. I will come to the issue, which Shri N.D. Tiwari has raised about the role of India and the developing countries in the IMF-World Bank combination. I will come to that and I will answer that question also.
Coming to food reserves, as the whole hon. House is aware, we are sitting on mountains of food reserves. In fact, it is so large that it is becoming a problem of plenty. But India is not in the position in which it used to be in the past. We are not importers of foodgrains.
Sir, we are net exporters of foodgrains. The Current Account Deficit is extremely under control and it has not been allowed to cross the one percentage point of the GDP.
SHRI NARAYAN DATT TIWARI (NAINITAL): Sir, may I have a clarification?
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: If you could ask it at the end of my reply, then my chain of thoughts would not be disturbed.
Sir, the point I was making was that growth rate has gone down. The growth rate, the world over, has gone down. The international scenario today is one of crisis. There are countries, even the largest economies of the world, are registering zero growth rate. The second largest economy of the world is also registering a zero growth rate. I have already mentioned that there are developing countries which have run into major balance of payments problems, and they are now running to international agencies for assistance. There are problems. I am not denying that there are no problems. But let us not in this particular House, which is the seat of sovereignty of this country, indulge in something which is going to send a wrong kind of a message to the whole country.
Sir, we have the problem of industrial slow down. This is a problem. Infrastructure growth has slowed down. Industrial growth, especially the growth in the capital goods sector has slowed down. It is because Member after Member here has said in this House that industrial economy of this country still depends on agriculture. It still depends on the rural sector and everyone realises this. The Government is acutely aware that it is only the demand of the seventy per cent of people living in the rural areas which will provide the necessary impulse to our economy. It is with this point of view that it has been our endeavour to ensure that we bolster the rural economy, we take into account factors that will increase the momentum of the economy as a whole. 02 Sir, Shri Rupchand Pal has said that the Government is clueless. It is a very easy way to make a criticism that the Government does not know as to what it has to do. I would like to take this House into confidence and say that between the third week of June and the second week of July, in these three weeks, I have met with eight of my Cabinet colleagues who are responsible for large parts of the expenditure dealing with infrastructure in this Government. I met with the hon. Minister for Power, the hon. Minister for Railways, the hon. Minister for Road Transport and Highways, the hon. Minister for Agriculture, the hon. Minister for Textile, the hon. Minister for Urban Development and Poverty Alleviation and the hon. Minister for Steel. With these eight Cabinet colleagues what I discussed was the issue of speeding up the investment expenditure in the country. This is because, these are, by and large, the Ministries which have large sums of money to spend.
I have had a meeting with the Chairmen of the banks where I have discussed the economic slow down and what the banks can do. I had a separate meeting with the Financial Advisors of all the Ministries where I have instructed them that while they should encourage their respective Ministries to ensure that the investment expenditure provided for in the Budget increases, they should keep a very strict control over the non-Plan expenditure, the revenue expenditure. This is the instruction that has been given.
Sir, I am making bold to say here that I have informed my Cabinet colleagues that if they spend what has been provided for in the Budget by way of the investment allocations and if they were to come back to me and say that they wanted more money, I have said that I shall provide them with more money as long as it is being usefully spent.
16.00 hrs. Here is the question then of the fiscal deficit. This issue has been raised in the media; this issue has been raised in this House. How do we control fiscal deficit? Despite the fact that I have been described as a fiscal terrorist and all that, let me assure this House that fiscal deficit is not really the culprit. It is the revenue deficit which is the culprit. Therefore, it will be our endeavour to ensure that we keep the revenue deficit under check. As far as fiscal deficit is concerned, even if we have to spend more money on productive expenditure, on investment expenditure, on infrastructure, the Government will not hesitate to do so because that is what is going to provide a fillip to the economy of the country. That is an assurance which I have already given to my colleagues. I have talked to Sharad Yadavji – he is not here – and told him to please come out with a scheme for a state-of-the-art airport in Delhi. Delhi must have a state-of-the-art airport. … (Interruptions)
SHRI K.P. SINGH DEO : What about the aircraft? They are flying coffins.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: If you bear with me I will answer all your questions.
I have told him to come to me with a project under which we can set up a state-of-the-art airport in Delhi. His Ministry is busy preparing that project and I am awaiting the project to come to the Ministry of Finance and go through the various procedures. As far as the issue of aircraft is concerned, I have also told him – this will satisfy our colleague from the North-East – to let Indian Airlines come with a demand for the purchase of aircraft. … (Interruptions)
श्री चन्द्रनाथ सिंह (मछलीशहर): उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, गांवों में सड़कें नहीं है और ये एयरपोर्ट बना रहे हैं, एयरपोर्ट का क्या फायदा है?
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You can seek clarifications after the reply is completed.
कुंवर अखिलेश सिंह: अभिजात्य वर्ग के लोगों के लिए सुंदर एयरपोर्ट बनाएंगे और गांव में पीने का पानी और सड़कें तक नहीं हैं।
श्री यशवन्त सिन्हा : आपके विचार से चलें तो न यह बनेगा न वह बनेगा।
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Akhilesh, this is the difficulty in dealing with you in the House.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, I am saying that as far as the resources are concerned, I will make sure that resources will be made available to the Ministries of Government of India for investment on productive activities, especially in infrastructure.
Coming back to our own friends from the Samajwadi Party who are the custodians of all that is good in rural areas, let me say that … (Interruptions)
श्री कांतिलाल भूरिया (झाबुआ): जो आदिवासी बहुल क्षेत्र हैं वहां रेलवे लाइनें दम तोड़ती जा रही हैं। मेरे क्षेत्र की रेलवे लाइनों की हालत बहुत खराब हो गयी है।
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You can seek clarifications after the reply is over. He has already told you that he would reply to all the questions.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: As far as the road sector is concerned, when I had imposed a surcharge, which was subsequently converted into a cess of one rupee on diesel and another one rupee on petrol, I remember I had faced a lot of opposition in this House that prices should not be raised. But what are we doing with that money? We have formed a cess fund and all that money is going to that cess fund, a separate fund, a non-lapsable fund. Money out of that fund is going for construction of rural roads. Rs.2,500 crore out of the fund is being provided for rural roads; Rs.1,000 crore is going to the States as grant to improve the State highways; and the balance money is being made available partly to the Railways so that they can construct overbridges and underbridges, and partly to our colleague, Khanduriji for the construction of national highways. If my estimate is correct, this year we should be spending something like Rs.14,000 crore to Rs.15,000 crore on roads alone in this country, an expenditure which is unprecedented. Last year’s Rs.2,500 crore and Rs.2,500 crore of this year put together comes to Rs.5,000 crore.
Sir, Rs. 5,000 crore within this year is going to be spent only on rural roads.
Now, I will come to the point which has been raised by Shri Pandian, and Shri Jose who is not present here, that this Rs. 2,500 crore which was shown as part of the State Plan is now technically being transferred to the Rural Development Ministry, for reasons that in this House Member after Member of Parliament cutting across political party line has complained that Members of Parliament are not being consulted as far as rural roads are concerned. No Member of Parliament is being consulted by the State Government for the construction of rural roads. We discussed this in the Government. It is a 100 per cent Government of India scheme. We are making money available 100 per cent to the State Governments to construct rural roads. But if Members of Parliament are not consulted, if they are ignored, then it is not a proper state of affairs.
Therefore, Sir, we have decided that this money will be made available in the Budget of the Ministry of Rural Development. The Ministry of Rural Development has already laid down procedure where Members of Parliament will be fully kept in the picture. They will recommend what roads have to be constructed in the rural areas. That is a demand which will be taken fully into account in construction of rural roads.
So, Sir, there is a massive scheme of roads regarding construction of rural roads, all the State roads and the national highways. Maj. General Khanduri has already explained to this House how we have preponed by one year the Golden Quadrilateral Scheme. This Scheme which was supposed to finish in 2004 is now supposed to be finishing by 31st December, 2003. We are preponing the completion dates. The contracts have been awarded. There is absolutely no delay as far as the Prime Minister’s projects of improving national highways are concerned.
This is the first time that this country will be enabled to boast of by roads, the national highways which will be of international standard. This is what is being done by us.
Now, Sir, as far as the other issues are concerned, as far as the economic framework is concerned, what is it that we have done. In the Budget, I made available tax concessions both on the direct taxes side as well as the indirect taxes side. We have reduced the interest rates on the Government contractual savings as a result of which interest rates in the economy have come down today, and they are the lowest ever interest rates. We are trying to increase the Government spending. We have the methods. This is the method which is internationally recognised. These are the methods which are suggested by the economists. We are trying to get over the situation of the slow down that we are experiencing.
Now, Sir, I will come to the various issues which have been raised by some hon. Members of Parliament. Shri Narayan Datt Tiwari raised a number of issues. The first one was about the national small savings. He has said that ‘why is it being shown in the Consolidated Fund? It should be in the public account.’ As the House would recall, in my 1999 Budget I had decided that national savings, where we receive money from the depositors and then we transfer a large portion of it to the States, was going through the Budget and it was unnecessarily adding, in a very artificial way, to the fiscal deficit of the Central Government. In 1999, therefore, I decided that we will break this tradition. We will transfer the small savings to special fund in the public account of the Government of India and we will ensure that the money which is due to the States will go directly to the States from this fund. And, as far as the Budget was concerned, we will only show a 20 per cent that we were keeping for the expenditure of the Government of India.
So, this is the arrangement which was made. Naturally, therefore, we had to create a separate fund which is called, National Small Savings Fund in the public account. The outstanding of the Government of India which was Rs.1,76,222 crore has been transferred to the National Small Savings Fund. Shri Tiwari, please notice this figure. Actually, it is the accounting procedure that is now far more transparent than it was in the past and it does not unnecessarily add to the Government deficit. It was because it was counted double. It was in the Government of India fiscal deficit, and also in the State Government fiscal deficit. Now, 80 per cent of it, which is transferred to the State Governments will form part of the State’s fiscal deficit and 20 per cent which we are utilising will form part of the Government of India fiscal deficit.
Now, the other issue which was raised was the question of charged versus voted expenditure. Sir, he expressed his concern at the fact that the voted expenditure was going down. It is bound to happen because as we are aware interest is a charged expenditure and transfer to State is also a charged expenditure. When these rise, then naturally, the percentage of charged expenditure goes up and the percentage of voted expenditure comes down.
Sir, this is only the first Supplementary Demand and it is not the budget. Sir, Shri Mahale was saying that दस लाख रुपया दे दिया, क्या यह मिठाई खाने के लिये है? It is only the Supplementary Demand which is supplementing the original Budget Demand. You have to read it with the Budget allocation and find out whether it is enough or not. How do we find it out? We consult the Ministry and then we find out. For instance, the issue of Ways and Means Advance of Rs.500 crore to the State Governments was there. Somebody asked whether Rs.500 crore are adequate. We have provided for Rs.2000 crore in the original Budget. This amount of Rs.500 crore is only to tide over the difficulties which might appear in this.
Now, I come to PSUs. Here I would like to take a bit of the time of the House. Though, we have had discussions on disinvestment and privatisation in every Session of the House, yet a number of people, especially, Shri Rupchand Pal asked what is the policy of the Government with regard to PSUs. Sir, in the clearest and briefest possible manner, we have defined the public sector policy of this Government in my Budget Speech of 1999 and we are still following that. Sir, if you take Plan and Non-Plan allocations, Rs.11,785 crore is the budgetary support to PSUs in this year’s Budget. Our policy is to strengthen public sector wherever we can.
I would like to share some of the figures with this hon. House. In the last three years, we have taken a decision to revive and restructure 26 public sector undertakings. If therefore, anyone says that we are anti-PSU, I will like to deny that charge with all the emphasis at my command. Twenty-six public sector units have been sought to be revived at a total infusion of fund of Rs.2197 crore. In addition, an amount of Rs.8335 crore on account of loans and interest has been written off. An amount of loan and interest converted into equity is of the order of Rs.4170 crore. Writing off loans and interest, converting loans and interest into equity, and direct infusion of cash, this is the manner in which we have sought to revive public sector undertakings. Sir, I would like to say that according to the figures which are available with me as on 31.3.2000, there were 232 operating Central public sector undertakings.
The number of loss-making undertakings, out of them, was 106, and 67 CPSUs whose network had become negative were registered with the BIFR. The accumulated losses of the public sector undertakings was Rs. 38,648 crore as against a total investment of Rs. 35,780 crore. The investment is Rs.35,780 crore and the net accumulated loss is Rs. 38,648 crore! This is the picture. These are the facts. But still, we are saying that we shall revive wherever we can revive.
A mention was made about the IDPL and fertiliser factories. In these Supplementary Demands for Grants, we have provided something so that the workers could be paid. But at the same time, we are looking at all these undertakings. We have even departed from our way. We are not looking at the whole undertaking but we are looking at the units of those undertakings.
We have the National Textile Corporation. There is a Group of Ministers which is working on it and we have decided that we will not look at the NTC as a whole but we will look at individual units of NTC and see wherever they can be revived. We are even prepared to go to look at the various functions of these units and see what functions can be revived. On IDPL, restructuring proposal is being considered but we are looking at it unit-wise to see which units could be revived. But at the same time, as far as fertilisers are concerned, the Prime Minister has appointed a Group of Ministers where we are going to sit down and deliberate as to which units can be revived. But the House must realise, and I am saying this with a sense of responsibility, that no Government – it is not merely a question of this Government – has the right to waste people’s money over something which cannot be revived. If study after study after study has shown that a unit cannot be revived because of circumstances, then should we still, for a certain number of workers who are employed or who are being paid, let us say, keep that unit going, realising fully well that year after year, there will be a budget commitment but that unit will not be revived? I think a time has come where we must have a national consensus on what exactly we want to do and which PSUs cannot be revived. This Government has been bold to say that we will close PSUs which cannot be revived. At the same time, we will look at each PSU, each unit, functions of that unit, and if there is any life left, we will try and revive those public sector undertakings.
The third part of the strategy is that the Government need not be in every business. There is no reason and, I think, there is consensus in the nation and the House that we need not be doing all the kind of things that we assumed responsibility for at a point of time where it was probably justified. Now, we do not have to go into all those areas. They can be done very ably by somebody else.
I would like to remind Shri Rupchand Pal that it is not a question of public sector and private sector. Any unit can be run well if the managerial talent is there, whether it is in the public sector or in the private sector. Therefore, we are aware of the fact that there are very well-run public sector undertakings in this country because they have a good management team, and equally, there are bad private sector undertakings which do not have a good management. There is a great deal of sickness in the private sector also. So, when we are talking about privatisation, do not think that it is selling family silver or we believe only in private sector and that is why, it is being done. It is being done because we want the Government to withdraw from certain areas of activity and it is in that context that the privatisation programme is going on. There is no point in unnecessarily criticising this Government on that account.
Shri Rupchand Pal made a point and there are some other hon. Members who think that I always go to only CII and FICCI. He has mentioned about CII and FICCI.
I shall stand corrected if Shri Rupchand Pal wants to correct me. But I would like to quote, with approval, the experience of West Bengal. In West Bengal, there has been a Committee which has functioned between the CII and the Government of West Bengal during the last five years. … (Interruptions)
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : I said it objectively, without casting aspersions on anybody. … (Interruptions)
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, every time there is a discussion on the economy, I am made to feel guilty in this House because it is said that I mix up with CII and FICCI and I go to their meetings. … (Interruptions)
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Do not mix it up with CIA. … (Interruptions)
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: I would like to inform the House that according to my information, the Government of West Bengal is working closely with CII. On August 7, the Chief Minister of West Bengal addressed the reconstituted CII-West Bengal Task Force at Kolkata. The Chief Minister is the co-Chairman of the CII-West Bengal Task Force. The other Chairman is the Director-General of CII. … (Interruptions)
DR. NITISH SENGUPTA : The Government of West Bengal has announced the closure of sixty public enterprises. … (Interruptions)
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: I remember, Shri Rupchand Pal was saying that CII has decided to close a public sector bank. Can CII decide to close a public sector bank in this country? Nobody can close any public sector bank in this country, except the owner of the bank, which is the Government of India. I wish the State of West Bengal well. I wish well as far as their partnership with CII is concerned. I know that they are working closely with CII. They are going abroad with CII. They are holding meetings with CII. They are doing a lot to improve the industrial climate in West Bengal along with CII. Godspeed, I wish them well.
Sir, I am being informed by friends here that my time is up. A number of other points were raised. As far as subsidies are concerned, despite the fact that subsidy bill has gone up, we have a very clear policy about subsidies. Nobody is interfering with subsidies as long as and as far as they are reaching the poor. It is the question of targeting the subsidies in a manner which will ensure that those who do not deserve, do not take advantage of the subsidies. This is the whole point about subsidies.
कुंवर अखिलेश सिंह: कृषि क्षेत्र में लगातार आप सब्सिडी घटाते जा रहे हैं जिससे उत्पादन पर प्रतिकूल प्रभाव पड़ रहा है। दुनिया के अन्य मुल्कों के मुकाबले आपको कृषि क्षेत्र में सब्सिडी बढ़ानी पड़ेगी।
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, I would like to wind up by saying that there is a problem on the economic front. We are in the midst of slow down. Some of the factors, as I have explained, are global and some of the factors are purely Indian. We are taking steps. We know what exactly has to be done. We are taking steps to do that. I would like to remind the House the problems that we have overcome in the past. No Finance Minister knows it better than I do because when I started as Finance Minister of this country in 1998, the situation was probably a little worse than what it is today.
Everyone was saying that this country is going to collapse. In fact, when I presented the Budget on the first of June, 1998, there were many friends who said that this was only a half Budget and the Finance Minister would have to come back with another Budget.
This year’s Budget, as I said, has created hopes. A number of factors have intervened. I will not go into the details. Time will tell what are the factors and who are the people behind those factors. Inquiries are going on. But I would like to say with all the confidence at my command that the Budget of 2001-02 is not dead. The Budget is alive and kicking.… (Interruptions) The Budget is being implemented. As we go along, we will make sure that all the promises that we have made in the Budget are fulfilled.
I have started the new practice of coming to this House with a document. Every year when I present my Budget, I come with a document which shows which are the Budgetary promises which have been implemented. Again, next year, we will follow the same practice. We have overcome the East-Asian crisis in 1998. We have overcome the sanctions imposed on us by various powerful countries of this world. We overcame the Kargil conflict. We have overcome the petroleum crisis. We have overcome the super cyclone of Orissa. We have overcome the worst ever earthquake of Gujarat. This challenge is a challenge which we shall meet and we shall overcome this challenge also.
With these words, I conclude.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA (GUNA): If I may be permitted, I would just want to seek a clarification. We are very much impressed by the concern that the hon. Finance Minister has shown on the wastage of public money. I would like to remind him that scam after scam after scam has followed due to the handling, direct or indirect, of the financial institutions. That has caused the public exchequer dearly. Especially in the UTI matter, 20 million small investors have been affected. Indirectly. hundred million people have been affected in this country. I would request the Finance Minister to enlighten us as to what measures are being proposed to be taken to secure the interest of the small investors who are facing financial calamity and doom as regards their life savings. As far as the small investors of the US-64 issue of the UTI are concerned, what are the measures he is proposing to take to dispel the pall of gloom that has fallen over them? Mr. Minister, if you can kindly enlighten us, we would be grateful to you.… (Interruptions) This is an important matter. If he is prepared to answer, why are you stopping?… (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN): I am not saying ‘no’ to it. Is it the last question?
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : Mr. Parliamentary Affairs Minister, it is not for you to decide.
SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN: I am not deciding it. Every time, you are referring to me and I have to reply to you. I am obliged to the Chair.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : Mr. Parliamentary Affairs Minister, I would request you not to lose your temper. Please control your temper. How will you control the House if you do not control your temper? I am not losing my temper. … (Interruptions)
SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN: It is the monopoly of the Deputy Leader of the principal Opposition Party to speak.… (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : I am asking him in good faith. He understands my concerns. I am not losing my temper.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I request both of you to calm down.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, are you allowing more questions?
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Yes, some more questions are there.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Would you like me to reply to this?… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN: My request is that you may allow all questions. Let him reply after that.… (Interruptions) It becomes an endless debate.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : Sir, I remember that when I was the Railway Minister, when I had to reply to the debate, Members used to ask clarifications. There is no harm in answering questions. Why is he getting hypertense about this? We have asked him in good faith. It is a matter to concern of everyone.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I give a chance, first, to Shri K.P. Singh Deo.
SHRI K.P. SINGH DEO : Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity.
Emboldened by the hon. Minister’s very impressive, frank, forthright and constructive response, I would like to crave his indulgence and ask what special package he has thought of giving to Orissa. I say this because the hon. Prime Minister visited in July, after the aftermath of the most devastating floods, and consequent upon the most severe drought and the super cyclone of 1999. After that, what special package has he thought of giving to Orissa?
What special package has he thought of for Orissa? It may be too soon. But I am emboldened by the fact the he said that this is only the first Supplementary and the Budget is yet to come.
The British Empire’s most poverty-stricken region of the Bengal Presidency was Orissa. Mahatma Gandhi had called it the `epitome of hunger and poverty’. My colleague, Shri Bikram Keshari Deo, has also mentioned that starvation deaths are still happening in erstwhile Kalahandi, which is now called the Ethiopia of India.
The Government of Orissa is in the debt trap. I would like to know as to what is the permanent solution to this debt trap of the Government of Orissa. Out of Rs. 21,305 crore, interest alone is Rs.2,030 crore per annum, which would be 3,945 crore by 2005. Eighty per cent of the revenue of Orissa is going towards payment of interest. Eleven Finance Commissions, various formulas, and modified formulas of the Planning Commission have not been able to erase poverty and hunger. The National Sample Survey has recently stated that the largest segment of poverty-stricken people is in Orissa. Dr. Giridhar Gamang the then MOS Plan and Programme Implementation had stated here that 55.17 per cent of the people in Orissa are living below the poverty line. My question is as to what is the permanent solution to the debt trap in the special package.
He mentioned about the `dream Budget’ or the dream of the hon. Prime Minister. There is a dream of the people of Orissa to live with dignity. Orissa was one of the first States to integrate into the Indian Union, but it still expects some hope from the Central Government.
He was mentioning about the cess for roads, etc. Orissa was getting a thousand crore on mineral cess till the Supreme Court struck it down. From 1994, there has been no review of the mining royalty, specially on coal, 33 per cent of which lies in Orissa. Because of this, Orissa is losing a lot of money. When are you going to revise royality of coal?
Next is about air safety. The hon . Minister mentioned that he told his colleague Shri Sharad Yadav that if he gives a package for Indian Airlines, he would bring in state-of-the-art air facilities. Indian Airlines has three subsidiaries. One is Allianze, the second isPawan Hans and the third has been wound up. These people have no union. They are working on contract basis. Nobody bothers about them. They are going around in a flying coffin. The latest accident that took place was in his own State, Patna, where 390 people died. What are you doing to do about them? If he could clarify and take us into confidence, I would be extremely grateful. Thank you very much.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : On 31st, the House would be adjourned. If at all the hon. Finance Minister has the report in his desk, could he take the House into confidence and tell about the interim progress of investigation of UTI? Will he assure the House that till date, investigations in the corporate houses by GIC and LIC are well stable to secure the interest of those financial institutions and that he would not come out with any statement in the next Session that there is a collapse in GIC and LIC because of various reasons? Would he just take the House into confidence in this matter?
SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHI : I am not going to ask about the state, etc.; I am going to ask about the declining growth rate. The Finance Ministry has pointed out that the real interest rates are very high in India. Because of the high interest rates, the Indian industry is becoming uncompetitive. It is not able to compete. Is there any proposal to make it competitive so that real industrial growth would increase and the country would witness the increase of growth rate from 5.2 to 6.2 or above? What is the Ministry expecting in this regard?
श्री रामजीलाल सुमन (फिरोजाबाद): उपाध्यक्ष जी, गैर योजना व्यय में निरंतर वृद्धि हो रही है। सरकार फिजूलखर्ची को रोकने के लिए क्या प्रयास कर रही है ? १९९६-९७ में जी.डी.पी. का १३.९ प्रतिशत खर्चा था जो १९९९-२००० में १५.२ प्रतिशत हो गया। जब कभी फिजूलखर्ची रोकने की बात होती है तो सरकारी कर्मचारियों को निकालने की बात आती है। वभिन्न वित्तीय संस्थाओं से और दूसरे देशों से हमने जो कर्जा लिया है, उस पर वचनबद्धता करार होता है।
इसके लिए हमें कमिटमेंट चार्ज देना पड़ता है कि एक निश्चित अवधि के अंदर यह ऋण खर्च होना चाहिए, वरना इतने पैसे देने के लिए आप बाध्य हैं। भारत सरकार ने अभी पांच वर्षों के २५४ करोड़ रुपए वचनबद्धता करार के तौर पर दिए हैं। पहली और दूसरी पंचवर्षीय योजनाओं के समय हमारे देश में जो परियोजनाएं शुरु हुई थीं, उनमें से दस परियोजनाएं ऐसी हैं जो अभी पूरी नहीं की जा सकी हैं।
मैं मंत्री जी से जानना चाहूंगा कि अभी आपने क्रूड ऑयल की बात की थी, जब हमारे देश में डीजल और पैट्रोल के दाम बढ़े तो यह कहा गया कि अंतर्राष्ट्रीय बाजार में क्रूड ऑयल का दाम बढ़ गया है, और यह ३७ डालर पर बैरल हो गया था, इसलिए हमारी मजबूरी है कि हम डीजल और पैट्रोल का दाम बढ़ाएं।
महोदय, मेरी जानकारी में क्रूड ऑयल का दाम अब कम हो गया है और हमारे तेल पूल का घाटा भी कम हुआ है। क्या ऐसी परिस्थिति में सरकार डीजल का दाम घटाने का काम करेगी?…( व्यवधान )
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : सुमन जी, यह डिबेट नहीं है, केवल सवाल पूछना है। Now, please resume your seat.
SHRI NARAYAN DATT TIWARI (NAINITAL): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I regret very much that the hon. Minister of Finance has not found enough time to reply to most of my queries that I raised while initiating the debate. First of all, I may mention that I quoted chapter and verse from some Reports of the Public Accounts Committees. The hon. Prime Minister was also the Chairman of the Public Accounts Committee a few years back. There have been unanimous Reports of the Public Accounts Committee, not once but at least ten times finding that whatever Supplementary Demands were asked for by the Government from time to time, had not been used or spent at all. Reappropriations have also not been fully utilised. I gave an example of last year’s Supplementary Budget. Out of Rs. 230 crore asked for through the Supplementary Demands, not a single rupee was actually utilised because it remained unspent. I think, that this major point regarding the Supplementary Budget has not been answered by the hon. Minister of Finance.
When it comes to clarify the question of exercising Parliamentary control over public expenditure, which is the main job of this House, I think, the Minister of Finance has chosen to keep his mouth shut.
Secondly, he was good enough to mention about the fiscal deficit having been transferred to the States by transfer of small saving. He said that 80 per cent of the fiscal deficit had now been transferred to the States and only 20 per cent remained with the Union Government. Is it not a fact that when you count total fiscal deficit, it is both for the States and the Centre? Even if you transfer 80 per cent to the States, this ultimately, the nation has to pay, the economy has to pay. I was a little surprised to find that the hon. Minister of Finance has mentioned: "We have transferred 80 per cent to the States. Therefore, we have lightened the burden of fiscial deficit." I would like him to correct himself on this matter.
Now, I come to the third point. While replying, he had assured us … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No speeches, please.
SHRI NARAYAN DATT TIWARI : I had initiated the debate. Therefore, I am entitled to seek clarifications on major points.
He was good enough to say what India had been doing to lead the developing countries in this new economic phenomena of under-spending, of recession, of currency collapses and sensex collapses in the Third World. He said, in response to a question "I will tell the House in detail about what India is doing in the IMF to lead the Third World countries to face this crisis. He mentioned Japan and every other thing." But he has left out this point altogether in his reply. He had assured us that he would take this House into confidence. Why have the Moody’s and the Standard and Poor’s downgraded our rupee?
It has affected everything throughout the line. The future is affected. Why have the Standard & Poor and Moody Organisations and other financial institutions of the world downgraded and under rated the value of our money and our securities?
There are so many questions that can be asked. Most of my questions have remained unanswered. So, I would like to have answers on them.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, if you give me another two hours, I will answer all the questions. I have taken notice of every point.
श्री चन्द्रनाथ सिंह : कल जो हमने कहा था उस पर मैं एक मिनट का समय आपसे चाहूंगा। आज ५४ वर्ष की आजादी के बाद भी देश की जनता गरीबी के कगार पर खड़ी है।
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Singh, you are always standing up like this. I will not allow you like this.
… (Interruptions)
श्री चन्द्रनाथ सिंह : आज ५४ वर्ष के बाद भी लोगों के पास पहनने के लिए कपड़ा नहीं है, दो वक्त का खाना वे नहीं खा पा रहे हैं।… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Will you resume your seat?
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have to name you out. This is not the way. Every time you are standing up.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)* SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, you have not given me an opportunity.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have already taken part in the discussion.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Bwiswmuthiary, please take your seat.
Not recorded.
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, I have asked about IISCO. IISCO employs 20,000 employees. It is a very good company in the Central Public Undertakings. We have approached the hon. Prime Minister and told him that a low cost project has come from MECON for only Rs.500 crore and the first instalment is only for Rs.150 crore.
When he is saying that if there is any life left in any CPSU, they will make every endeavour for restructuring. Sir, IISCO is a fit case and MECON has recommended it. It is also very much under the consideration of the Government, so far I know. But the hon. Minister has not replied with regard to that. I would like to know what the Government proposes to do.
DR. NITISH SENGUPTA: Sir, I would like to know from Shri Rupchand Pal whether his unions will cooperate.
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : He does not know anything… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Sengupta, please take your seat.
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : I have asked another question about Dunlop India Ltd. It is a good company, a good brand name, it has a good market and it produces the best quality aero-tyres for the Defence. The Government has got 34 per cent stake in it with LIC, GIC and UTI. The Government has defined that 26 per cent control is enough to be considered as Government control, but here they have 34 per cent… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Pal, please ask the questions. Do not make a speech here. You have already taken so much of time.
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL: Sir, I would like to know whether the Government is prepared to bring out a white paper on the CPSUs so that there can be a better opportunity to have an insight into the goings on. This way the Government can interact with this House and we can have a better discussion.
श्री चन्द्रनाथ सिंह : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मैंने कल भी कहा था कि पहली बार इस वर्ष का बजट बिना बहस के पास हो गया। उस पर न कांग्रेस और न ही सत्ता पक्ष बहस कराना चाहती थी। तहलका मामले को लेकर सदन में हंगामा हुआ। यदि बजट पर कोई बहस चाह रहा था तो समाजवादी पार्टी चाह रही थी। सत्ता पक्ष और कांग्रेस दोनों डर रहे थे कि कहीं उनकी पोल न खुल जाए। …( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप सवाल पूछिए।
श्री चन्द्रनाथ सिंह : देश के दो परसैंट लोग अमीर होते जा रहे हैं। ९० परसैंट जनता को कोई लाभ नहीं मिला है। गांव में लोगों को खाने के लिए रोटी नहीं मिल रही है, पहनने के लिए उनके पास कपड़े नहीं हैं और पीने के लिए पानी नहीं है। मेरा कहना यह है कि भ्रष्ट अधिकारियों के खिलाफ आप क्या कार्रवाई करेंगे जिससे गरीब जनता तक पैसा पहुंच सके।
डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, भगवान महावीर की २६००वीं जयन्ती मनाई जा रही है।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप सवाल पूछिए।
डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : प्रधान मंत्री जी ने राष्ट्रीय समति में घोषणा की थी कि इसके लिए १०० करोड़ रुपए दिए जाएंगे लेकिन सप्लीमैंटरी बजट में केवल ५० करोड़ रुपए आवंटित किए गए हैं। मैं वित्त मंत्री जी से पूछना चाहता हूं कि क्या वह प्रधान मंत्री के वचन का पालन करने के लिए फिर से सप्लीमैंटरी डिमांड्स लाएंगे।
SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO (KALAHANDI): Sir, the long term Action Plan for KBK in Orissa was submitted by the Government of Orissa. I would like to know from the Finance Minister as to when it will be accepted. It is already delayed. Therefore, I request the hon. Finance Minister to see to it that it is approved immediately. Sir, if you will permit it, I would like to lay this document on the Table of the House. I authenticate this document. It is the Orissa Government’s document. I would like to lay it on the Table of the House*.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: It is already there. Now, the hon. Finance Minister.
SHRI BIKRAM KESHARI DEO : Sir, this is a very important document. May I be allowed to lay it? … (Interruptions)
*The paper sought to be laid has not been treated as Paper laid on the Table.
THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI YASHWANT SINHA): Sir, I rise to reply to the second round of discussions in the House on the Demands for Supplementary Grants. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Bwiswmuthiary, I would allow you on some other occasion.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except the Minister’s reply.
(Interruptions)* SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, it is not possible for a Minister to reply to all the points which have been raised because the Members speak for four hours or five hours but the Minister speaks only for half an hour or 40 minutes. So, it is physically not possible. Unless the Minister is given more time, it will not be possible to reply to all the points. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: We have time constraint. You please answer in a short time.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, I will try and pick up again important points and try to address those points.
Sir, Shri Narayan Datt Tiwari is absolutely right that I did say it in the course of my speech, in the context of international development. I would like to inform the House about the role that India has been playing, especially in the multi-lateral financial institutions. Sir, as the House is aware, India is not a debtor of the International Monetary Fund. We have taken loans from them.
We have returned the last dollar of their loan. India is not a debtor of the IMF but India is a founder Member of IMF. We have a very important position in the IMF. We have been recognised as one of the 20 systemically important economies of the world. That is why, India has been included in the newly formed Group which is called the G-20. The G-20 has the Finance Ministers who constitute this group. They use this opportunity once in a year to discuss issues of *Not recorded.
global concern. The first meeting of the G-20 was held in Berlin in 1999. The second meeting was held in Montreal in 2000. I am happy to inform the House that the third meeting of the G-20 will be held in November in Delhi and India will be paying host to the G-20.
Sir, I happen to be the current Chairman of the Development Committee of IMF and the World Bank. It is a great honour which has been bestowed on India. This is the first time that any Indian Finance Minister has been made Chairman of the Development Committee of the IMF and the World Bank. Whether it is the IMF, it is the World Bank or it is the Asian Development Bank or any other Grouping like the G-20, India today is in a position to speak with authority on behalf of the developing countries. That is exactly what we do. The reason why we decided to host the meeting of G-20 is to ensure that the attention of the whole international community is focussed on the problems of the developing countries. This is the role which India has come to play in the international fora. It is a well recognised and it is a well-respected role that we have played.
The other issue that he raised is about the national small savings. The point I was making was not that we are transferring it to the States. I was saying that it was a double count because we were including it in our Budget and they were including it in their Budget. So, it was a double count. Certainly, I am aware that it is part of the national fiscal deficit and a national fiscal deficit will reflect the fiscal deficit of the States. It will reflect the fiscal deficit of the country. It is only that the double accounting of this has been avoided by this new arrangement that we have made.
I am aware of the fact that the Supplementary Demands for Grants are not always used. Shri Narayan Datt Tiwari had been the Finance Minister of this country himself. He must be aware of the fact that when we sit down with the Ministries to discuss Supplementary Demands, when we sit down to discuss the Revised Estimates for the Budget, there are pressures. The Ministry still feels because the discussion for the Revised Estimates of expenditure begins sometimes in October or November. That is the time when we start looking at the expenditure of the Budget and want to decide how much they will spend. There are Ministries which feel they can spend until the end of March and they do make demands. Sometimes, when the demand appears to be reasonable, we concede that demand. We provide for it in the batch of Supplementary Demands when we come to Parliament. It is likely and it happens that Supplementary Demands for Grants, sometimes, are not spent. This is a very good constructive view which has been taken by the Public Accounts Committee of this House, Parliament. We are aware of it. We are trying to tighten controls so that the Budget is as accurate as possible and in Supplementary Demands, in Revised Estimates, we do not make that kind of a mistake.
As far as the question of economy in expenditure is concerned, the point which has been raised by Shri Suman is concerned, there are subsisting economy and austerity instructions in Government. They are being strictly enforced. Let me tell you that last year we were able to achieve a significant control on the Non-Plan revenue spending of the Government of India only because of the strong control that we had exercised. The same kind of control we are exercising this year also. We will make sure that we keep the strictest and most stringent watch on Non-Plan revenue expenditure of the Budget of the Government of India.
Then I would like to come to the question of interest rates, civil aviation, etc. which have been raised. The question of Orissa has been raised from both sides of the House. I am happy to inform you that in these Supplementary Demands, hon. Members must have noticed that for cyclone-affected rural areas of Orissa, a provision of Rs. 165 crore is being made. This provision is being made so that we can construct houses for the poor. Under the Indira Awas Yojana, we can construct houses for the poor. This was a demand which had come from the Government of Orissa. It has been supported by the Cabinet and our ministerial colleagues from Orissa, and that is why we are making this provision so that more houses could be constructed for the cyclone-affected people in Orissa or whichever part of the country – whether it is Orissa or Bihar.
Hon. Member Dr. Raghuvansh Prasad Singh will have a grievance against me and other hon. Members may have a grievance that I did not get an opportunity to reply about Bihar. Bihar’s condition and Bihar’s situation is well-known. It is a part of the Act separating the State into Jharkhand and Bihar that a special package will be made available to Bihar. The Government of India stands by that commitment. I would like to state in the House that the Government of India stands by that commitment. We will make sure that it is fulfilled. This matter is being dealt with by my colleague, the Deputy Chairman of the Planning Commission. Whenever the Plan discussions are held, I am sure, the Planning Commission will take into account the special needs of Bihar.
I think one of the hon. Members referred to the increasing regional disparities. The hon. Minister for Information Technology keeps on referring to the digital divide. It has been our endeavour to ensure that no divide takes place and that the subsisting regional disparities are taken care of when we discuss in the National Development Council, on the 1st of September, the draft of the Tenth Five Year Plan. This will be an important item of the agenda there as to how do we tackle the problem of regional disparities.
Here, I would like to refer to one important issue which has been raised in this House, again cutting across the political party lines. Member after Member has said as to how are we monitoring the money which is going from the Government of India to the States. I remember, a point has been made by hon. Member Shri C.N. Singh and he talked about corruption and he mentioned that he finds that many schemes of the Government of India are not in the field there. Sir, this is a federal polity. We work together with the State Governments. … (Interruptions)
SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY : Hon. Minister, please excuse me. I want to make only one point for your submission. I want to ask, what kind of protection you will provide to certain badly neglected regions and areas within certain provincial States in the country? This is a very very vital question. We are having lots of problems. What kind of guarantee will you provide to those regions? … (Interruptions)
श्री चन्द्रनाथ सिंह : वित्त मंत्री जी आप हमारी बात मान लेंगे तो फायदे में रहेंगे, नहीं तो जहां कांग्रेस बैठी है, आप भी वहीं बैठेंगे । आपकी जगह लोक मोर्चा आयेगा ।
श्री यशवन्त सिन्हा : कौन सा मोर्चा इधर आयेगा यह तो देश की जनता तय करेगी । लेकिन मैं कह रहा था कि राज्य सरकारों को हम वभिन्न योजनाओं के लिए संसाधन उपलब्ध कराते हैं और यहां जब भी मैंने चर्चा में भाग लिया है तो देखा कि माननीय संसद सदस्यों से जो ध्वनि निकली है वह यही निकली है कि जमीन पर जिस तरह से उनकी सच्चाई में परिणति होनी चाहिए, वह परिणति नहीं हो रही है और उसमें मैम्बरों की जो भागीदारी होनी चाहिए, वह सुनिश्चित नहीं हो पा रही है । राज्य सरकारें पार्लियामैन्ट के सदस्यों से भी छिपाकर बहुत सी जगहों पर काम कर रही हैं, जो नहीं होना चाहिए।
श्री रवि प्रकाश वर्मा (खीरी) : आर्थिक सुधारों पर तो काम हुआ है लेकिन प्रशासनिक कार्यों पर बिल्कुल काम नहीं हुआ है। उस पर आपने कुछ नहीं बताया ।
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : I request the hon. Minister to reply on the point of small investors.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Yes, I will come to that.
But, it is a very difficult and complex question. What kind of supervision do you want the Government of India to exercise on the States? I would like the House to separately discuss it some day. What kind of role can the Central Government, the Federal Government play in the kind of constitutional arrangement that we have, with the C&AG reporting to the Legislatures of the State Governments, the PACs of the State Legislatures? Looking into this, what kind of role do we want the Central Government to play?
17.00 hrs This is an issue which I am not answering at this point of time. I merely keep flagging this issue because this is an issue which needs to be discussed. I think, we all are getting impatient at the lack of delivery, at the cutting edge level, and we want the cutting edge to be effective. The cutting edge is with the State Governments. What do we do to work together on this? So, this is an issue that we have to keep in mind.
On the question which Shri Rupchand Pal raised about IISCO, Dunlop and all that, he himself said that we are trying our best to ensure that IISCO is revived. I am sure that he is personally aware of the personal efforts that I have made in this regard to ensure that IISCO is revived, and we will continue to do this so that, as I said, if there is any life left in any public sector undertaking, we are able to revive that.
Then, Dr. Raghuvansh Prasad Singh raised the issue of centenary celebrations of Bhagwan Mahavir and a sum of Rs. 50 crore being provided. उन्होंने ऐसे कहा जैसे ५० करोड़ रुपये लेकर हम भाग रहे हैं। हम नहीं भाग रहे हैं। वह ५० करोड़ रुपया भी अभी माननीय मंत्री जी के विभाग को उपलब्ध करा दिया गया है। वह खर्च करेंगे इन सप्लीमेंट्री डिमांड्ज़ के बाद। फिर और रुपया भी उपलब्ध कराएंगे। इसलिए उसमें कहीं कोई कटौती नहीं होगी। प्रधान मंत्री ने जो घोषणा की है, उसको पूरी तरह से कार्यान्वित किया जाएगा।
Sir, I will just like to take one moment. I have been talking about regional disparities. We have paid special attention to the North-East. In fact, the other day, we had a meeting of Chief Ministers and Ministers of Cooperation of the State Governments, and many of the North-Eastern Chief Ministers were present. The Prime Minister, in his address to that Chief Ministers’ Conference, has asked me, has directed me to take up the issue of the North-Eastern States separately to make sure that the cooperative funds, bank funds, institutional funds and developmental funds flow in adequate measure to the North-East. I have planned to personally visit the North-Eastern States. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Bwiswmuthiary, please listen to his reply.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, I will be personally visiting the North-East. I will be sitting down with the Chief Ministers and reviewing the situation. The Government is committed to do whatever is needed to be done in the North-East in order to make sure that the North-East develops as well as any other part of the country.
Now, I will come to the final point which has been raised by my distinguished colleague, Shri Madhavrao Scindia. He raised the issue of UTI, small investors and the financial sector in general. I am very happy that he raised it. As far as the financial sector is concerned, I notice that we are creating a fear psychosis in the minds of the people. I am talking of the financial sector in general. If all the depositors of a bank reach the bank at the same time and want their deposits back, we know that not even the most viable bank will survive. This is called a run on a bank. I think, it is our national duty to ensure that we do not unnecessarily exaggerate the problem so that this problem assumes dimensions which it normally will not. I am pleading with this hon. House, I am pleading with the media upstairs.
There has been much talk about the IFCI bail out, this bail out and that bail out. Let me take a little bit of the time of this House. In the case of IFCI, a report was submitted to me in December, 2000. UTI was nowhere in the picture in December, 2000. In December, 2000, an Expert Committee submitted its Report to the Board of Directors of the IFCI about what needed to be done to the IFCI. Then, we considered that Report when the IFCI approached the Ministry and finally, we have taken a view that in terms of the Report of that Committee, the Basu Committee, we should make available from various sources Rs. 1,000 crore to the IFCI in order to get over the problem.
What is the basic problem of the IFCI? I am not trying to blame anybody. It is not a problem which I have created as Finance Minister in the last three-and-a-half years; it is basically a problem of mismatch that they raised funds through bonds and other instruments for five years and lent them for ten years. … (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : My point is about the small investor.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: That is what has created this problem. Now, in terms of that, we have arranged to give them Rs. 400 crore from the Government. In fact, it is a part of the Supplementary Demands for Grants, and Rs. 600 crore will come from the shareholders of the IFCI. The Government is not a shareholder of IFCI. Apart from IFCI, there is not a single other agency, financial institution, which has been bailed out by the Government of India.
Sir, Madhavpura Bank is being supported by the Urban Cooperative Banks of Gujarat. The Urban Cooperative Banks have come together to place at the disposal of the Madhavpura Bank Rs. 800 crore, and the Gujarat Government has come forward and they have given a guarantee for 30 per cent of this amount. The balance 70 per cent will be invested in Government of India’s securities and nobody will be able to take out money from that security except with the express permission of the Reserve Bank of India. The Government of India is not bailing out the Madhavpura Bank.
As far as the three weak banks are concerned, no Government bail out package has yet been worked out or given to them. As far as UTI is concerned … (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : Mr. Finance Minister, I have not raised all these points. I am only expressing the concern of the entire House for the small investor. All I am asking is about the measures that have been taken, if any. I have not asked any other thing.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: I am coming to that; I am taking a little time.
As far as UTI is concerned, the Government has not felt the need to bail out UTI out of this present crisis. I did not get a chance to reply to the UTI debate. I do not want to take the time of the House in talking about it in any great detail. I would only like to say that as far as the small investor is concerned, when the UTI came out with a redemption scheme effective from, I think, August … (Interruptions)
SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : It was effective from 2nd July.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: No, on 2nd July, they froze it. On 1st August, they came out with this. Almost 28 days are behind us now. I was looking at the figures which appeared in the newspaper that the redemption has been only Rs. 102 crore so far. The kind of pressure that was expected that people would rush to UTI, take out their money from US-64, that kind of run has not taken place. This is the proof of the confidence of the small investor in the UTI schemes. … (Interruptions)
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Not at all. The fact is different. … (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN): Please let him speak.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, the figure has been quoted. Shri Madhavrao Scindia has even quoted the figure of two crore people, ten crores with their families. That is why, Sir, I charge that this issue has been politicised. Nobody is interested in them. They are only interested in making politics out of it.… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Absolutely not. It is not being politicised. The fact is that he is deliberately withholding the details. In fact, he is taking a casual approach. The small investor has been completely neglected by the Government, and they are trying to cover up the entire thing. (Interruptions) They are not prepared to reply. The Finance Minister took it very, very casually. It is not a lighter question that Shri Madhavrao Scindia has posed. The Minister should have clearly stated what the proposal of the Government is to recover the money, which has been siphoned off. He is not telling that; he is simply telling that everything is all right.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: He has explained it to everybody’s satisfaction.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN: Shri Acharia, you were not in the House when the Minister replied. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Dasmunsi, his reply may not be up to your satisfaction.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : I heard his speech. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I shall now put the Supplementary Demands for Grants (General) for 2001-2002 to vote.
"That the respective supplementary sums not exceeding the amounts on Revenue Account and Capital Account shown in the third column of the Order Paper be granted to the President out of the Consolidated Fund of India to defray the charges that will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 2002, in respect of the heads of Demands entered in the second column thereof against Demand Nos. 1, 3 to 6, 9, 11, 20 to 22, 25, 34, 36, 45, 48, 50 to 52, 58, 59, 61, 62, 64, 65, 69, 70, 73, 76, 78, 80, 81, 83 and 84."
The motion was adopted.
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Printed list of demands for grants.
The motion was adopted.