Lok Sabha Debates
Further Discussion On The Matters Arising Out Of Indian Premier League(Ipl) ... on 11 August, 2015
Sixteenth Loksabha an> Title: Further discussion on the matters arising out of Indian Premier League(IPL) Controversy and other related issues.
HON. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Next, the House will take up discussion under Rule 193 – Indian Premier League (IPL) Controversy.
Shri Arjun Ram Meghwal to initiate the discussion.
… (Interruptions)
श्री अर्जुन राम मेघवाल (बीकानेर):महोदय, मैं 193 की चर्चा शुरू करता हूँ।...(व्यवधान)
SHRI TARIQ ANWAR (KATIHAR): Sir, I would like to draw your attention to Rule 375 of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha. It says that in the case of a grave disorder arising in the House, the Speaker may, if she thinks it necessary to do so, adjourn the House or suspend any sitting for a time to be named by her. … (Interruptions)
Sir, I would like to request you that the House is not in order. So, you may kindly adjourn the House immediately… (Interruptions)
PROF. SAUGATA ROY (DUM DUM): Sir, I am raising a Point of Order under Rule 56. While I support the contention of Shri Tariq Anwar that the House should not run in these disrupted conditions, I would like to quote another rule of which I have given a notice of and that is Rule 56. It is good that the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs is present in the House and I hope that he will reply to the objections raised by me.
Sir, under Rule 356 the House can be adjourned on an Adjournment Motion. Of all the types of Motions available on which there is voting, there is Adjournment Motion under Rule 56. There is No-day-yet-named Motion under Rule 184 and there is No Confidence Motion under Rule 199. Now, the Government is not allowing discussion under Adjournment Motion though Shri Kharge is repeatedly giving Adjournment Motions for the last three weeks for discussion on the Vyapam scam and the Lalit Modi issue and the allegations against the Ministers… (Interruptions) I will finish in one minute. When an Adjournment Motion notice is served, one copy goes to the hon. Speaker, the other copy goes to the Minister concerned and one copy goes to the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs. So, they decide which will be allowed and which will not be allowed. Now, the Government may take the position that Adjournment Motion is actually a censure of the Government… (Interruptions)
HON. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What do you want?
PROF. SAUGATA ROY: Sir, one minute. Please do not be so impatient. You are running the House in disturbed conditions… (Interruptions) Sir, it has been mentioned in Kaul and Shakdhar, page 529, that the primary object of an Adjournment Motion is to draw the attention of the Government to a matter of urgent public importance so as to criticize the decision of the Government in an urgent matter in regard to which a Motion … (Interruptions)
SHRI N.K. PREMACHANDRAN (KOLLAM): Mr. Deputy-Speaker Sir, my point of order is in respect of Rule 376.… (Interruptions)
HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: I will give you my ruling. Please wait.
… (Interruptions)
PROF. SAUGATA ROY: Sir, Adjournment Motion is not being accepted by the Government because they think that it is a Censure Motion. Yesterday, one Member of the Ruling Party, Shri Nishikant Dubey, placed an Adjournment Motion. Was he doing censure against the Government? I do not know about it. And you allowed him and he read out his motion. Shri Premachandran has given a notice for Censure Motion and you are not allowing that. What is this Government doing? … (Interruptions)
SHRI N.K. PREMACHANDRAN: Sir, my point of order is in respect of Rule 376 as well as Rule 184.
Sir, I have given a notice for Censure Motion under Rule 184 on 24th July, 2015 stating six reasons but unfortunately, the Motion which is accepted is under Rule 193 by the Government. I would like to know what happened to my Censure Motion. Has it been disallowed? If it is disallowed, on what grounds has it been disallowed? There is no information in this regard. Sir, I have given the notice under specific rules and clear terms and conditions. But unfortunately, we have no information on this.… (Interruptions)
शहरी विकास मंत्री, आवास और शहरी गरीबी उपशमन मंत्री तथा संसदीय कार्य मंत्री (श्री एम. वैंकैय्या नायडू) : डिप्टी स्पीकर सर, ऐसी मोनोपली नहीं चलेगी। There cannot be a point of order when there is no order. They create disorder and raise point of order. What is this order which I am not able to understand all these years? मज़ाक बना रहे हैं। And Prof. Saugata Roy is a very senior Member. There is disorder in the House and he is raising point of order and then making commentary about the Chair and advising the Deputy-Speaker also not to be impatient. Who is impatient?
So far as the Government is concerned, the Government is ready for discussion from day one. Admission of Adjournment Motion is decided by the hon. Speaker. The Speaker has reserved it. ये क्या है? What is this bulldozing? ये बुलडोज़िंग नहीं चलेगी, कोई स्वीकार नहीं करेगा।
Sir, my suggestion is, if they are not ready for discussion and they have not come prepared, let them not have it. There is no problem. The Government is ready for discussion right now. The Government is ready for discussion any time. If they are not ready, I am not pressing for discussion because I want order in the House. Let them go and take their seats and resume the House in the normal way and then let us transact the business. The Government has no role at all in this. They should understand what is an Adjournment Motion.
HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: While the notices of Adjournment Motion have been received, the same have however been disallowed by the hon. Speaker.
PROF. SAUGATA ROY: Why?
HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: Hence, there does not arise any occasion for a point of order.
Shri Arjun Ram Meghwal.
… (Interruptions)
श्री अर्जुन राम मेघवाल : उपाध्यक्ष जी, धन्यवाद। काफी लंबे समय से जो आई.पी.एल. कंट्रोवर्सी को लेकर स्थिति बनी है, मैं उस संबंध में नियम 193 के अंतर्गत चर्चा करना चाहता हूँ। ...(व्यवधान) डिप्टी स्पीकर सर, संसदीय कार्य मंत्री कुछ बोलना चाह रहे हैं। यह क्या हो रहा है? ...(व्यवधान)
HON. DEPUTY SPEAKER: The House stands adjourned to meet again at 3.30 p.m. 15.09 hrs The Lok Sabha then adjourned till Thirty Minutes past Fifteen of the Clock.
15.30 hrs The Lok Sabha re-assembled at Thirty Minutes past Fifteen of the Clock.
(Hon. Speaker in the Chair) … (Interruptions)
15.30 hrs At this stage, Prof. K.V. Thomas, Shri Kodikunnil Suresh and some other hon. Members came and stood on the floor near the Table.
माननीय अध्यक्ष : क्या हुआ?
…( व्यवधान)
SHRI K.H. MUNIYAPPA (KOLAR): Madam, I have a point of order.… (Interruptions)
माननीय अध्यक्ष : प्वाइंट ऑफ आर्डर किस बात पर होता है?
…( व्यवधान)
माननीय अध्यक्ष : अभी तो काम शुरू ही नहीं किया है।
…( व्यवधान)
SHRI K.H. MUNIYAPPA: Under Rule 56, Madam.… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: We have not started doing anything, what is the point of order?
… (Interruptions)
श्री एम. वैंकैय्या नायडू : मैडम स्पीकर, क्या स्पीकर के ऊपर कागज फेंकना प्वाइंट ऑफ आर्डर है?...( व्यवधान) इस सदन में क्या हो रहा है?...( व्यवधान) What is happening in this House? I am not able to understand.… (Interruptions) क्या यह कोई तरीका है?...( व्यवधान) अगर इन्हें बहस नहीं चाहिए तो छोड़ दीजिए, बहस मत कीजिए।...( व्यवधान) बहस किए बगैर सदन की अवहेलना मत कीजिए।...( व्यवधान) चेयर की अवहेलना नहीं होनी चाहिए।...( व्यवधान) कागज फेंकना, नारे लगाना, प्वाइंट ऑफ आर्डर, ये सब क्या है।...( व्यवधान) हाउस नहीं चलाना है तो क्या वह नहीं चलेगा?...( व्यवधान)
माननीय अध्यक्ष : प्लीज़, आप सब अपनी-अपनी सीटों पर जाइए।
…( व्यवधान)
HON. SPEAKER: It is not fair.
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: Now, we will take another discussion under Rule 193, if they do not want.
… (Interruptions)
श्री एम. वैंकैय्या नायडू : ये बहस के लिए तैयार नहीं हैं, इन्हें बहस नहीं चाहिए।...( व्यवधान)ठीक है, नहीं चाहिए तो नहीं चाहिए। आगे बढ़िए।...( व्यवधान)
HON. SPEAKER: Are you not interested in discussion?
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: Do not speak from here; please go to your seat. This is not the way. I am sorry.
… (Interruptions)
श्री मल्लिकार्जुन खड़गे (गुलबर्गा) : मैडम स्पीकर, जब डिप्टी स्पीकर साहब चेयर में थे, उस वक्त ही हमने यहां सवा दो बजे यह सवाल उठाया था।...( व्यवधान) हमने कहा कि हमने एडजर्नमैंट मोशन के तहत जो विाय चर्चा के लिए दिया है, आप उसे स्वीकार कीजिए।...( व्यवधान) हम चर्चा के लिए तैयार हैं। हम भागने वाले नहीं हैं। ...( व्यवधान) लेकिन इसे तोड़-मरोड़कर वे चाहते हैं कि नियम 193 के अंतर्गत लाएं। इसे डॉयलूट करके सिर्फ चर्चा करके डिसबर्स नहीं होना चाहते। ...( व्यवधान) मोशन मूव होने दीजिए, चर्चा होने दीजिए, वोटिंग होने दीजिए, गवर्नमैंट साइड का...( व्यवधान)
HON. SPEAKER: Kharge ji, now listen to me.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI MALLIKARJUN KHARGE: The Government has got brute majority. Let them prove it. … (Interruptions) Under Rule 56, let them accept it. We are ready to discuss now only.… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: Please. Karunakaran ji, Prof. Saugata Roy I was there inside; the Deputy Speaker has heard you.
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: There is nothing like that.
… (Interruptions)
माननीय अध्यक्ष : खड़गे जी, मेरी बात सुनिए।
…( व्यवधान)
माननीय अध्यक्ष : खड़गे जी, आपने एडजर्मेंट मोशन दिया था और लोगों ने भी अलग-अलग विाय पर एडजर्मेंट मोशन दिया था।
,…( व्यवधान)
HON. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please listen to me.
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: Ruling is always given by the Speaker and not by them. I have disallowed all these Adjournment Motion notices.
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: Once the Adjournment Motion was disallowed then it was said: “They are ready for discussion.” But others are not ready.
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: You can discuss the whole issue. After that the concerned Minister will reply.
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: If you are ready to discuss it then its okay. If you do not want to discuss it, then we will start another issue under Rule 193.
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: I have disallowed your Adjournment Motion.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI M. VENKAIAH NAIDU: If they are ready, we will take up the discussion. … (Interruptions) We are saying this from day one. If they are not ready or afraid of discussion or want to go away, I do not force them. … (Interruptions) It is their own choice. The Government is ready from the day one for discussion on IPL, BPL and other issues. We have been saying it very clearly from day one. … (Interruptions) Nobody can question the Speaker’s ruling. Coming here and throwing papers on the Deputy Speaker, it is totally unbecoming on the part of the parties.… (Interruptions) They should not do it. Khargeji, being a senior Member, should not allow this. … (Interruptions) Please go to another issue. We have no problem. If they do not want to discuss it, we have no problem. … (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: Khargeji, Speaker has disallowed your Adjournment Motion.
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: Your issue is the same.
… (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: When it is a controversy and other related issues or whatever it is, you can discuss it. What is the problem?
… (Interruptions)
SHRI MALLIKARJUN KHARGE: Madam, I just want to bring one thing to your kind notice. How can the BJP Chief Whip give notice for a discussion on the IPL scandal and other related issues? He is not at all concerned … (Interruptions) There are no charges against the Minister. He has no grievance against the Minister. How can he give this notice? It is just to dilute our notice. … (Interruptions) Just not to discuss it and to escape from this, they are doing it. … (Interruptions) We do not want any discussion under Rule 193. We want this discussion under Rule 56. We are ready to discuss that. … (Interruptions)
HON. SPEAKER: Khargeji, we can do one thing. खड़गे जी, आप अगर इस मोशन पर डिस्कशन नहीं करना चाहते हैं तो नहीं कीजिए, एडजर्मेंट मोशन को मैं एलाऊ नहीं कर रही हूं। यह बात आप मान लीजिए। आप वर्डिकट नहीं दे सकते हैं। सभी दूसरी पार्टीज दूसरे विाय पर चर्चा करने के लिए तैयार हैं। You can discuss whatever it is. If you are not ready, we will take up another discussion under Rule 193.
… (Interruptions)
15.39 hrs. DISCUSSION UNDER RULE 193