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Dr. Chinta Mohan Called The Attention Of The Minister Of Home Affaris To The ... on 7 December, 2005

> Title : Dr. Chinta Mohan called the attention of the Minister of Home Affaris to the situation arising out of damage caused by Floods due to heavy rains in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka.

   

MR. SPEAKER: Now, we would take up the Calling Attention.

            I may announce here and now that today there will be no luncheon recess and at 2 PM, the discussion under Rule 193 on WTO will start. I would like to request the hon. Members to participate in this discussion. I would also request them to be brief and to the point without repeating the points so that we can conclude this very important discussion in a proper manner.

 

DR. CHINTA MOHAN (TIRUPATI): Sir, I call the Attention of the Minister of Home Affairs to the following matter of urgent public importance and request that he may make a statement thereon:

“The situation arising out of damage caused by floods due to heavy rains in Tamil Nadu and Karnakata and steps taken by the Government in this regard.”   MR. SPEAKER: I think, all the hon. Members have got the statement with them and, therefore, the statement can be laid on the Table of the House.

 

 THE MINSTER OF STATE IN THE MINSTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI SHRIPRAKASH JAISWAL): Sir, during the current year, the State of Tamil Nadu has experienced heavy rains and floods in three spells in quick succession. The first spell of heavy rains and floods occurred in the second fortnight of October, the second spell in the first week of November and the third spell in the last week of November, 2005.

The state had received 291.66 mm rainfall in the month of October, 2005 itself against the normal rainfall of 187.1 mm during this month. In the first two spells, districts of Chennai received 172% of the normal rainfall, Kancheepuram 88%, Tiruvallur 111%, Cuddalore 58% and Nagapattinam 52%. Due to excess rainfall and releases from Mettur Dam, 18 districts were affected by floods.

In the first two spell of rains and floods, 3.90 lakh houses, 89,653 ha of agriculture crops, 15,627 Km of roads are reported to have been affected, besides loss of 137 human lives. About 3.28 lakh families were evacuated and accommodated in relief camps.

In the third spell, between 21.11.2005 to 24.11.2005, 262.68 mm rainfall was recorded which resulted in floods in 15 districts of the State. The Cauvery delta districts namely Cuddalore, Nagapattinam, Thanjavur, Tiruvarur and Trichy were the worst affected. In the 15 districts, 3,738 villages, with a population of 34.14 lakh were affected. 179 persons lost their lives and 3.82 lakh houses (huts) were either fully or partially damaged.

The railway tracks in many sections in Tamil Nadu are reported to have been inundated and at several places washed away. The infrastructure damaged includes 29,000 kms of roads, approximately 6441 irrigation tanks and 3459 River banks and channels. There was also damage to bridges and culverts which has * Laid on the Table and also placed in Library.  See No. LT 2979/2005.

 

disrupted normal traffic in the affected districts. 3.5 lakh Ha of agricultural land in the State have been either fully or partially damaged.

The State Government of Tamil Nadu undertook rescue and relief operations. About 11.51 lakh people were evacuated and accommodated in 1,349 relief camps. The State Government is reported to have distributed 46.52 lakh food packets, Rs.325.60 lakh as cash dole and 3.31 lakh Kgs of rice to the affected families.

The Army, Air Force, Navy and Coast Guards assisted the State Administration is rescue and relief operations. Five helicopters (Air Force – 03, Coast Guards – 02) were deployed for dropping food packets to marooned population. Two ships of the Coast Guards were stationed near Cuddalore for relief operations. Four Columns of Indian Army were requisitioned.

I alongwith the Hon’ble Finance Minster, my colleague Shri Reghupathy and senior officers of the Government of India flew over 9 out or 15 affected districts of the State on 26th and 27th November, 2005. The members of Tamil Nadu Government also visited the affected areas.

In the memoranda submitted by the Government of Tamil Nadu, the State Government has sought financial assistance of Rs. 13,685.00 crore, 2.58 lakh MT of rice and an additional allocation of 43,200 Kilo-litres of kerosene for relief operations in the affected areas for all the three spells of floods. An Inter-Ministerial Central Team visited the State from 17-20 November, 2005 and again from 28-30th November 2005 to assess the damage.

Keeping in view the magnitude of the situation, for relief mainly the Government of India immediately released an ad-hoc grant of Rs. 500.00 crore on 29.11.2005 to the State of Tamil Nadu. The first installment of Central share of CRF of Rs. 78.40 crore for the current year has also been released to the State Government on 14.11.2005.

As regards the State of Karnataka, I would like to inform the Hon’ble Members that the State has also experienced three spells of heavy rains and floods during the year 2005. in the first spell in the months of July and August, 2005, heavy rainfall and release of excess water from the reservoirs caused flood situation, mainly in five districts namely Belgaum, Bijapur, Bagalkote, Gublarga and Raichur. The Coastal, Malnad districts and some interior districts were also affected. A total population of 29.05 lakh was affected and 130 persons lost their lives. The number of houses damages 88,548 and cropped area affected is 1.96 lakh ha.

The State Government had submitted two Memoranda to the Government of India indicating therein the damage due to heavy rains and floods in first spell in July and August 2005 at Rs.3640.07 crore.

Both the installments of Central share of CRF of Rs.86.00 crore has been released to the State. Keeping in view the magnitude of the situation caused by heavy rains and floods, an additional ad hoc assistance of Rs.357.00 crore was released from NCCF. These funds are expected to be used for relief mainly.

The Central Team had visited the State w.e.f. 17th to 20th August, 2005 for assessment of damage. The High Level Committee has approved financial assistance of Rs.255.05 crore to the State subject to the adjustment of balances in CRF account and a release of 0.72 lakh MT foodgrains under special component of SGRY for relief employment.

In the second spell of floods on 20th and 21st September 2005, all the major rivers were in spate and caused flash floods in three districts viz. Belgaum, Bidar and Gadag. In this spell, 13,067 persons were affected in 134 villages. While 950 houses were damaged, the cropped area affected is 56,584 acre.

The third spell was in the last week of October, 2005 on account of depression in the Bay of Bengal and a local vortex. Bangalore city, Bangalore rural, Mysore, Mandia, Chamrajnagar, Davangere, Hassan, Kolar and Raichur Districts of Karnataka received heavy rains. Bangalore city suffered extensive inundation, flooding of roads, disruption of road communication, collapse of houses and railway bridges, resulting in a large number of trains being cancelled. Nearly 21,000 houses are reported to have been badly damaged. 2,130 cattle and 30 persons died due to heavy rains and floods. More than 500 tanks breached causing enormous damage to nearly 60,000 acres of standing crops. More than 500 bridges and culverts were washed away.

The Central Government deployed Air Force helicopters, Army Boats, Army Columns and Central Para Military Forces to assist the State Governments in rescue and relief operations.

The State Government has sought financial assistance of Rs.1256.90 crore for relief operations in the areas affected in second and third spell of floods. Another Central Team was deputed for assessment of damage during the 2nd week of November, 2005. The report of the Central Team, has now been received, and is being processed.

I would like to inform the Hon’ble Members that the assistance being provided to the affected areas in Tamil Nadu and Karnataka as well as in other flood affected States is only for immediate rescue and relief operations. As regards the request of the State Governments for long-term rehabilitation and reconstruction, the Government of India expects to receive the plans made by the State Governments, which would be examined by the Planning Commission and National Disaster Management Authority (NDMA), for appropriate and favourable action.

I would like to assure the House that the Government of India will provide all necessary required assistance to the State Governments to meet the situation caused by heavy rains and floods during current year.

DR. CHINTA MOHAN : This year has become a year of disasters. On the one side we already have had Tsunami and on the other side there have been floods… (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Let us all utilise this very important time of the House.

DR. CHINTA MOHAN : Sir, first time in my life I have seen floods in Chennai where people had to travel from street to street on boats. The huts of poor people have been completely immersed. They have lost their livelihood; they have lost their utensils and they are suffering without anything to fall back on. On the other hand, the farmers have lost their crops. There has been a total damage to their crops. In a matter of just 100 days, the State has been ravaged by floods four times. Now we are given to understand that there may be a severe cyclone in the Bay of Bengal which may cause another round of floods. That would mean that in a matter of just 100 days we would have floods for the fifth time. The life of the poor people, the farmers, the handloom weavers, the fishermen and that of the agricultural labourers have got completely shattered.

            Sir, the hon. Minister has said in his statement that the Government has given a relief package worth Rs. 500 crore to the State of Tamil Nadu and also same amount of relief has also been given to States of Andhra Pradesh and Karnataka. Here I would like to ask a simple question. How is the Government going to assess the damage scientifically? The people are asking for relief worth thousands of crores but how is the Government going to assess the damage? How is the Government proposing to find a temporary as well as permanent solution to this problem? … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: No whispering and cross talking please. People of this country are suffering and we are having a very important discussion which has already been delayed by three days. Let there be a proper discussion. Let us pay proper respect to this issue.

13.09 hrs. (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair)   DR. CHINTA MOHAN : Sir, this country is faced with this menace of flood every year and so now the time has come for the Government to think of a permanent solution for this and not  just think of giving temporal relief in the form of Rs. 500 crore or Rs. 200 crore. This piecemeal effort is not going to help anyone. Today the farmers are expecting crop insurance. Farmers are expecting compensation for their crops. The agricultural labourers, who are entirely dependent on farming activity, are demanding immediate cash compensation for the losses suffered by them. They wanted 100 kilograms of rice as relief. But the State Government is giving only 10 kilograms or 20 kilograms of rice. This is not going to help them. Only five litres of kerosene has been allocated. How will this five litres of kerosene help their cause[snb14] ?

They need [bru15] more kerosene.  Sir, in his statement, he has not said as to how many cattle they have lost and how many houses they have lost.  He has only said that he has given some relief and that this is at the request of the Chief Minister which he is trying to do.  This is not the way the Government should react.  Our Government is a progressive Government.  They should come forward with more efforts and see that they should help the people.  When Katrina occurred in USA recently, the entire US Administration got shattered.  When compared to other Governments, our Government is doing a good job.  When we faced Tsunami, earthquake and floods, the entire State Administration and the Central Government had come forward to help people.  They have done excellent work.  I congratulate the Government of India.  I congratulate hon. Prime Minister that he came forward to give a ring to the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu and the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh and told them that he is sending his team and taking up relief measures.   This is the way the Government should work. 

 

            Here, particularly the State Government of Andhra Pradesh is asking for relief worth thousands of crores of rupees for relief measures. The State of Andhra Pradesh for the district of Chitoor which is adjoining Tamil Nadu and the district of Nellore which is near Karnataka.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH):  Sir, I would request him to yield for a minute.  I am also supporting whatever he is saying.  There is no doubt that we are discussing an important matter.  But the Home Minister is not present here.

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS     (SHRI SHRIPRAKASH JAISWAL) I am sitting here.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR But Shri Shivraj Patil, the Cabinet Minister, should be present here.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:   Shri Jaiswal is here.  He is a capable person and he is authorised to reply to the debate.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, we have nothing to say against Shri Jaiswal.   श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल जी के खिलाफ मैं कुछ नहीं कहना चाहता हूं। We do respect him.  But, as this is an important matter, we request that Shri Shivraj Patil should be present here … (Interruptions)

श्री लक्ष्मण सिंह उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, वहां बाढ़ आई है। लोग प्रभावित हुए हैं। कैबीनेट मनिस्टर श्री शिवराज वि. पाटिल को यहां उपस्थित रहना चाहिए। … (Interruptions)

SHRI SHRIPRAKASH JAISWAL: Sir, the Cabinet Minister is in the Rajya Sabha.… (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : कैबीनेट मनिस्टर इस समय राज्य सभा में हैं। श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल, गृह मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री, सदन में उपस्थित हैं। ये कैपेबल हैं। ये आपका जवाब देंगे। यदि इनके जवाब से आपकी तसल्ली न हो, तब आप बताएं।

 

DR. CHINTA MOHAN :  Sir, poor people have lost their houses.  Lakhs of houses have been lost.  What permanent measures has the Government taken to help these poor people? Fishermen in the coastal areas of Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh have lost their boats, nets and houses.  The handloom weavers have lost their looms, fabrics and fibres. They are expecting some immediate help from the Government. What is the Government planning to do to help the States of Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu?   I would like to know what you are going to do for them; and how you are going to assess the damage scientifically and give them immediate relief.  If so, when are you going to do it; and what permanent measures are being taken in this regard?   You said that if we send a proposal, the Planning Commission will examine it and do the needful.  You should come forward, take a positive stand and see that immediate relief is given to the States of Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu.   The State of Andhra Pradesh is asking at least Rs. 3000 crore and the Government of Tamil Nadu is also asking Rs. 3000 crore to give immediate relief to the flood affected victims. 

 

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY Sir, I, more or less, agree with the statement given by the Home Minister about the situation in Tamil Nadu.

            The statement which was given was with regard to the third spell of rainfall.  But, four days back, there was the fourth spell of rainfall in Chennai, Thiruvallur and Kanchipuram districts.   There was heavy damage in Thiruvallur, Kanchipuram and Chennai.  The Pichatur Dam of Andhra Pradesh got breached and the water washed away the entire adjoining districts of Andhra Pradesh and Tamil Nadu. Statement regarding that should also be laid by the Home Minister. 

            There was heavy rainfall for the past 100 days.  Due to heavy rainfall, many lakes got breached and roads got damaged.   There is water logging in most of the districts and more than 22 districts have been destroyed by unprecedented rainfall[bru16] .

   

            Hon. Home Minister, hon. Finance Minister, hon. Minister of Shipping, Road Transport and Highways and other Central Ministers visited our State and made some relief measures available.  I thank them for that.  We had an all-party meeting of UPA in Chennai, headed by our leader, Dr. Kalaignar. We passed a Resolution "to seek more funds to the State of Tamil Nadu".  That Resolution had been submitted to the hon. Prime Minister by all the UPA MPs and Ministers of the State.  The Central Government has sanctioned Rs. 500 crore to the State of Tamil Nadu.  But it is not sufficient to the State.  In a statement made yesterday, the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu has said that the Central Government has not given any funds to the State of Tamil Nadu till today.  I would request the hon. Minister of State for Home to enlighten the House as to how far this statement of the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu is true.  The first person to give a statement demanding more allocation of funds to the State of Tamil Nadu was Dr. Kalaignar. 

            Sir, a monitoring committee should be set up.  Now, the State Government has constituted a Committee to monitor the relief works, with MPs, MLAs and some NGOs as members.  But we have a bad experience with regard to this in the tsunami attack last year.  They constituted some committees.  But we were not being given any importance in those committees.  We are unable to monitor those relief works.  They have not convened any meeting. 

            The State Government has denied receiving any money from the Central Government and does not acknowledge the steps taken by the Central Government through the defence personnel.  The Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu has said that no money has been sanctioned by the Central Government and no defence personnel came to its help. 

            Therefore, I would request the Minister of State for Home to constitute a Committee headed by the MP concerned in all the districts to monitor the relief works. 

 

            In the Statement laid by the hon. Minister, it is said that 1349 relief camps have been set up. It is also stated: "The State Government is reported to have distributed 46.52 lakh food packets; Rs. 325.60 lakh as cash dole and 3.31 lakh kgs. of rice to the affected families". As an MP, I can say that many areas in my constituency are badly affected.  I do not know where they have distributed this cash and rice.  As people's representative, I can say that the steps taken by the State Government is very poor.  The statement that came from the State Government is a false one. 

            At some places in Chennai, they distributed cash to the extent of Rs. 2,000/- per head.  At that time because of the failure of the Government, because of the failure of the Tahsildar, nine persons -- six women and three men -- had died in the stampede.  They said that they were giving Rs. 2,000 to each person.  Let me tell you what is our experience regarding that.  It was also reported in all the newspapers. One of the Ministers of the State was distributing covers to the affected families, saying that each cover contained Rs. 2,000.  But on opening the cover, it was found that it contained only Rs. 1,000.  This was the complaint of the people. 

We allege that the people in the State Government are misusing the entire official Government machinery. Tahsildars, Revenue Officers and Village Administrative Officers are misusing their positions. So, I urge upon the Central Government to monitor the utilisation of funds that it provides. I urge upon the Central Government to sanction more funds to the State Government.  I would request the Central Government to constitute an all-party committee in flood-affected districts which will help the State. 

I would once again reiterate the statement made by my leader, Dr. Kalaignar, to sanction more funds to the State of Tamil Nadu. 

   

SHRI P. MOHAN Sir with a heavy heart I participate in this business to draw the attention of this house and through this august house the attention of the Government about the way in which our attempts to raise the unprecedented rain floods problem in Tamil Nadu were thwarted by the political moves of the main opposition party in the house. I am the very first person to give notice as early as on 28th of November to speak on torrential rains and rain floods that has caused great havoc in Tamil Nadu.  For more than ten days we were prevented by the BJP and its allies from raising the problems of the people due to the natural calamity.  Out of 30 districts more than 22districts have been hit hard by four successive spells of incessant rains that caused great devastation. More than 1 crore people have been affected in so many ways.  About 20 lakh acres of cultivable land including Cauvery Delta Region has been inundated.  Several residential Colonies have been marooned. In such areas both college and school students have lost their text books and reading materials. Poor people have lost their ration cards that helped them to buy essential commodities.  Many have lost almost all their belongings and rendered helpless. Huge loss of lives and to property has been reported widely. When the people of Tamil Nadu have been greatly affected and are worried with these sufferings, denigrating the need to raise the matter about the vexing problems of the people of Tamil Nadu, there were hurdles to take up the matter included in the list of business for about ten days now.  Even today the BJP raised some other issue  I would like to point out that we did not come in the way of anyone when Gujarat. Earthquake disaster was raised in this house. I do not want to hurt the sentiments of anyone. But I must point out that problems faced by the people especially the poor must be taken up in a proper manner in this house of the people. Had we interrupted with the raising of the matter pertaining to Gujarat at   * English translation of the speech originally delivered in Tamil that point of time, could you have tolerate it. Of course. We did not do it then. And we were unanimous. So I urge upon the BJP and its allies to give priority to burning issues of the people at least from now on.  Having said this, I would like to seek certain clarification from the hon. Home Minister. I would like to know whether the Government of Tamil Nadu has given a detailed report about the calamity there and an estimate with the proposal for relief and rehabilitation. Have they furnished detailed information about the losses it suffered in various ways after evaluating and assessing them and whether Tamil Nadu Government has submitted any reconstruction plan. If such a detailed report has been submitted by Tamil Nadu when the Centre would be extending the financial assistance sought by it?  What are the long term and immediate measures of the Centre? Though it is not sufficient, Centre has rushed in Rs 500 crore of rupees to Tamil Nadu as interim relief whereas the Government of Tamil Nadu has demanded more.  I understand that they have demanded more to the tune of about Rs. 13,685 crores.  I want the Hon. Minister to spell out the norms and guidelines with regard to the Central assistance ensuring the victims and the affected their due shares.  I also urge upon the government to ensure that pucca houses as group housing complexes are built and provided to the poor who have lost their dwelling units. Such houses should not be constructed using mud and clay.  The marginal farmers and small farmers must get compensation and insurance coverage for the huge loss to their standing crops. I urge upon the Union Government to evolve a comprehensive relief package to help the suffering people of Tamil Nadu within a specified time frame.  I would like to impress upon the Centre to extend all possible assistance to mitigate the sufferings of the flood hit people providing the relief sought by Government of Tamil Nadu at the earliest.       

         

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri L. Ganesan - Not present.

            Shri K. Subbarayan.

 

SHRI K. SUBBARAYAN Sir, Tamil Nadu has been affected by four spells of heavy rains and floods resulting in loss of life and extensive damage to property and infrastructure.  Normal life in 22 affected districts has been completely disrupted with the people losing their livelihood. Thousands of habitations have been marooned and lakhs rendered homeless.

            The National Highways and railway links from Chennai to the South remained snapped for a long period[mks17] .   Roads and railway tracks breached at several points. Towns and villages, and paddy fields were submerged under water. Tamil Nadu has also demanded a total assistance of Rs.13,685 crore from the Centre for undertaking relief and rehabilitation measures. The scale of assistance adopted by the Government of India should be comprehensive, modified to provide adequate support to the farmers of Tamil Nadu.

            So, I urge upon the Government of India to release the full package, at the earliest possible time,  taking into consideration the magnitude of loss.

            I also insist on the formation of a Monitoring Committee comprising representatives, not only the elected ones but also representatives from all the regional and national political parties that will oversee the relief work.

            As per the meteorological report, there is a threat of one more storm by the end of this week. That will, no doubt, make the devastation worse. It could be of a very high magnitude in Tamil Nadu. Considering it also, I once again reiterate that the Government of India should release the Relief Fund without any further delay.

 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Generally, the practice is that only five Members can speak on the Calling Attention. But the matter is very serious and very important. Therefore, I would like to allow only a few Members belonging to that State.  They  have to seek only clarifications.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  I will allow some more Members to speak. They have to seek only clarifications or put questions but they should not make lengthy speeches. First of all, I would call Shri E. Ponnuswamy. Please put the question only.

SHRI E. PONNUSWAMY Thank you, Sir. First of all, I would like to say that of the 22 districts affected by the recent floods in Tamil Nadu, Cuddalore district is the most-affected one, especially my Constituency, Chidambaram. From 23rd of November before coming here – today I am in the Lok Sabha – I had been in my constituency for well over 12 days.  I did not even attend Parliament Session because I wanted to be with my people there.

            All said and done, so far the people, who have lost all the things they had with them, are still on the streets. Most of the people are poor and downtrodden. Lakhs of huts have been completely wiped out. Most of the villages have been completely damaged. Lakhs of people marooned. People have to be ferried by boats even from street to street in Chidambaram constituency.

            Two Committees have visited so far. I was with them. I have submitted two memoranda to the Committees also. I had been visiting all the places in Cuddalore district, more particularly in my constituency. Out of the 1300 villages, more than 1000 villages in my constituency have been completely damaged or wiped out. People are not able to even sleep, not able to have even one time meal a day.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Please seek the clarifications now.

 

SHRI E. PONNUSWAMY :  Please allow me to complete it in two or three minutes. … (Interruptions) I understand the paucity of time. But still I would request you to allow me two or three minutes more because it is particularly my constituency which was the one affected most in the whole of Tamil Nadu.

            Coming to the point, I have interacted with the Collector. I have been contacting him constantly all through the days to extend succour to the affected people.  So far, the Government of Tamil Nadu has asked for Rs.13,565 crore which they have estimated. Of course, we stand by the Government of Tamil Nadu even though we are in opposition in Tamil Nadu.  We really fully support the demand in the interest of the people.

            So, I urge upon the Government of India to fully assist the Tamil Nadu Government  financially without any further delay[R18] .

I would also request the Government that it is not only necessary to go to the rescue of the State of Tamil Nadu with financial assistance but also to employ a monitoring agency involving local bodies and other NGO agencies and the elected representatives to monitor the distribution of relief funds as the Government of Tamil Nadu has already proved during the calamity of Tsunami that they were mostly partial.  They have not reached out to the people with impartial motive and they have gone only on a political motive.

            Sir, I also urge upon the Government of India not only to give this assistance but also to take preventive measures.  It has been one year from December, 2004 to December, 2005. Tamil Nadu was the most affected State in whole of India with natural calamities like droughts, floods and rains. Some steps should be taken by the Government of India to formulate certain system so that the preventive steps be taken to safeguard the interest of the people of not only Tamil Nadu but all over the nation.

 

            Sir, I would request again specifically that out of the funds that may be allotted to the Government of Tamil Nadu, my district Cuddalore and my constituency Chidambaram should be given a special fund of at least Rs. 1000 crore.  It is only because of not deepening the rivers, the channels, vaikkals and not raising bunds all this calamity has happened.  I thank both Defence and Shipping Road Transport and Highways Ministers for their timely help.

Finally, Sir, I would make only one point.  We had requested the Government of Karnataka to release the water when we needed.  They have not done so. Now, from Mettur dam, four lakh cusecs of water have been released without being asked for.  It is because of the overflowing flood from Mettur dam down up to delta area in my district, this has happened quite unprecedently. So, I would request the Government of India to urge upon the Government of Karnataka to pay compensation to the State of Tamil Nadu so that they must learn a lesson.    

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : मेरे पास इसके बाद एक और भी कॉलिंग अटैंशन है। इसलिए मैं चाहूंगा कि सब माननीय सदस्य एक-एक मिनट से ज्यादा का समय न लें।

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR :  Thank you, Sir.  I had given a separate Calling Attention notice on the flood situation in Karnataka and the inadequate support given by the Central Government urging more assistance from the Union Government.  Thank you very much for allowing me, Sir.  At the outset, I also felt that the hon. Union Home Minister would himself be present in this House because of the importance and seriousness of the matter but you said that the hon. Minister of State is there.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER:  Hon. Minister of State is very competent, very intelligent and is capable to reply your queries. 

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR :  There is no question about his competence, Sir, but despite that we thought that the hon. Union Home Minister himself would have been present here.

 

            I will be raising only specific clarifications.  The Government of Karnataka has submitted three memoranda for an assistance of Rs. 4,897 crore.  It is because from 23rd July to the last month, that is up to the end of October, the State of Karnataka has been ravaged by floods incessantly. Sir, 18 districts and 104 tehsils have been affected and more than 169 people have lost their lives.  More than 5,60,000 acres of crop have been lost. Nearly 1,30,000 houses have been damaged.  More than this, the hi-tech city of Bangalore witnessed the highest amount of rainfall in the last 104 years.  Usually, in the month of October we used to have rains to the extent of 152 millimetres but this time we had 595 millimetres of rain.  Sir, 10 lakh people became homeless, 12 people died and 60 per cent of the residential areas were flooded and 139 tanks were breached.[bts19]   For Bangalore City and Vambay houses, we demanded only Rs. 700 crore and Rs. 10,000 crore respectively. My first question, Sir, relates to reply of hon. Home Minister in relation to Calling Attention Notice on Point No. 18.  He said that for the three memorandums that have been submitted, another Central team was deputed for the assessment in the second week of November.  Now, the Report of the Central team has been received and it is being processed.  My only submission through you, Sir, is that I want to call upon the attention of the Union Government regarding the three memorandums that have already been given.  That is number one point.  The total loss has been of the order of Rs. 4,897 crore while the Government of India has given only Rs. 375 crore only.  Sir, other than Rs. 375 crore, the ad hoc release which is due to Government of Karnataka through the Calamity Relief Fund (CRF) and the NCCF. Therefore, Sir, we urge upon the Union Government that there should be a time-frame to give the ad hoc assistance for the Bangalore City and other remaining parts of Northern Karnataka.

            Secondly, Sir, we also have demanded that the CRF Guidelines have to be revised.  The hon. Chief Minister of Karnataka has written a letter to the hon. Prime Minister that the CRF Guidelines should be revised.  During last Calling Attention Notice in the month of August – when I raised it here – the hon. Agriculture Minister said that the CRF Guidelines should be revised.  The hon. Prime Minister – when we met him in different delegations – also appreciated that the CRF Guidelines have to be revised.  It is because the present guidelines, Sir, is for the drought conditions and not for the flood conditions.  According to CRF Guidelines, the fund for dry land is Rs. 400, Rs. 800 for wet land and Rs. 1,200 for horticulture land per acre for the crop loss.  Sir, it is not at all sufficient to give Rs. 6,000 for construction of one house.  I think there is some confusion in the Union Government about revising of the CRF Guidelines.  In August itself, the hon. Prime Minister has formed a Group of Ministers (GoM) with the Union Home Minister, Union Finance Minister and Union Agriculture Minister to look into this matter of revision of the CRF Guidelines.  Last time when we met the hon. Prime Minister, we came to know that there has not been a single sitting of this Group of Ministers (GoM).  The entire country, particularly Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh and various other States have been hit hard by severe floods, cyclones and tsunami.  There is a consistent demand from all sections of this House to the hon. Prime Minister, the Home Minister and the Agriculture Minister for revision of the CRF Guidelines.  This Group of Ministers (GoM) has been formed in August only.  I am astonished, Sir, that till today there has been no meeting of this Group of Ministers (GoM).  They have not come out with any revision of the CRF Guidelines.  We have already demanded, Sir, from the Government of Karnataka Rs. 15,000 per acre for the loss of sugarcane crops, Rs. 10,000 per acre for irrigated lands and Rs. 5,000 per acre for dryland crops.  As regards compensation for housing, the CRF Guidelines should be revised and will start from Rs. 40,000 upwards for every collapsed house and Rs. 25,000 for largely damaged house.  The irrigation pump-sets have been washed away.  I would like to say that Rs. 18,000 should be given for 3-hp pump-sets, Rs. 22,000 for 5-hp pump-sets and Rs. 24,000 for 7-hp pumpsets.  Through you, Sir, I want to… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: All other States, including Punjab, should be covered.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : It is for every State.  I entirely agree with you that it is for the entire country.  When are they going to revise the CRF Guidelines?  It is because that is the basic solution for the flood-affected farmers across the country.  The particular Group of Ministers (GoM) has been formed especially for Karnataka, Tamil Nadu and Andhra Pradesh, but no sitting has been held so far.

            In the last Calling Attention Notice, I also raised the issue that the floods in Karnataka were because of the release of water from the Koyna Dam.  Our Hon. Chief Minister has written a letter to the hon. Prime Minister on 8th August, 2005.  He said:

“I would like to appraise you about some important facts relating to the cause of floods and how these issues have been distorted by the Government of Maharashtra.  The heavy discharge of water from the reservoirs in Maharashtra has resulted in unprecedented floods in five Northern Districts of Karnataka, namely, Belgaum, Bijapur, Bagalkot, Gulbarga and Raichur.  More than five lakh people in 265 villages in Northern Karnataka have been rendered homeless.”   He further said:

“Koyna Dam, for the last two decades, has been experiencing recurring earthquakes whose epicentres are either under the dam or very close to it.  Two such earthquakes occurred on 1st and 3rd August, 2005[a20] .”   On these dates, Koyna Dam was completely full and had 97 TMC water in store.  Due to these earthquakes, the Dam was reported to have developed some cracks.  Around the same period, Maharashtra received copious rains.  Further threatened by earthquakes and cracks in the Dam, Maharashtra resorted to heavy discharges from Koyna Dam resulting in unprecedented floods and inundated Sangli and Kolhapur towns, apart from a good number of villages in downstream of Maharashtra and Karnataka.

            Sir, our Chief Minister of Karnataka has also urged – I want to conclude – it is a very serious matter – that we are in an unfortunate situation suffering from unprecedented floods in Karnataka on account of the failure of Government of Maharashtra to regulate the discharge of water from the reservoirs.  When I raised this issue last time, the hon. Union Home Minister, in his reply to the Calling Attention Notice, said:

“As far as earthquake in Koyna Dam is concerned, Shri Sharad Pawar told me - he was the person who was responsible for managing the calamity which had occurred in Latur as the then Chief Minister of Maharashtra.  I was also told that the area suffers from tremors of around 2 to 3 or some time even less than 2 to 3 on the Richter Scale.”    However, the hon. Minister, Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi is also here.  I want to draw his attention.  Sir, I want to put it before this august House:

“That the entire Earth of ours is all the time trembling.  There is not a moment when the Earth is not trembling, whether it is trembling at 2 or 3 on the Richter Scale or less than that is the question.  We do not have to bother about these things.  Moreover, the Government of Karnataka is taking care of it and the hon. Members could go back to their respective States and constituencies and assure the people that necessary steps have been taken. ”   After this reply of him, the Chief Minister of Karnataka has written a letter that there have been earthquakes in and around Koyna.  The Bhabha Atomic Research Centre, in its Report, said that there have been three earthquakes in Koyna.  Therefore, the Government of Maharashtra, without bothering to the consequences of floods in the downstream Districts of Karnataka, has let the waters irresponsibly. We want to urge upon the Government of India to intervene to the safety of the Koyna Dam, which is a dangling sword on the head of the safety of Karnataka.  The Koyna Dam has developed some cracks.  We are told that there is a huge plan that more than Rs. 100 crore are again going to be spent to strengthen the walls and other things. They have to do something about the safety and security of the Koyna Dam.  There has to be some coordination between both   the Governments of Maharashtra and Karnataka regarding the reservoirs’ management that how much water should be left and when it should be left.  I would like to know whether the Government of Maharashtra does not look into these important things because downstream Karnataka will be affected.… (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : Tamil Nadu should be included.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Anant Kumarji, please conclude.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Sir, Bangalore City is a hi-tech city like Mumbai City.  Therefore, a package of Rs. 700 crore should be given to Bangalore city for the flood relief.  The Koyna Dam should be repaired.  Already, three memoranda have been given for the time-bound allocation of money to Karnataka, and the CRF guidelines should be revised. 

 

SHRI M. SHIVANNA Mr Deputy Speaker Sir, I thank you for permitting me to speak on this Calling Attention. In Karnataka ten districts are severely affected by this incessant heavy rain. Chamarajanagara is the worst affected district in Karnataka.

            Some relief work is going on. Ganji Kendras have been set up. Five litres of kerosene and 10 kg rice is being given to each family. I do not know for how many days this kind of temporary assistance would continue. The Centre has to come out with concrete measures for the permanent relief of the affected people. The affected people are the residents of jhuggi jhonpdi areas and most of them belong to SC/STs and other downtrodden communities and hence Centre has to take up the relief work with all seriousness.

            The money that is being given for partial house collapse is Rs 500 to 1000. People whose houses are collapsed to the extent of 50% will get Rs 3000/- and for the complete collapsed house Rs 6000/- is granted. This amount is insufficient and therefore I urge upon the Centre to revise Central Relief Fund (CRF) which is outdated and does not serve the purpose. A new and scientific CRF has to be evolved immediately. At least Rs 1,00,000/- should be provided if the house is completely destroyed. Under Rajiv Gandhi Awas Yojana for each house construction Rs 40,000/- is given. But for the rain affected people one lakh rupees must be provided because their living condition is severely affected in the recent heavy rain. More than 500 houses have collapsed in Chamaraja district alone. The total number of people who lost their lives in Karnataka is more than 150. Several hundred cattle and other animals have died. Hence the Centre should come forward with immediate relief measures.

            The Central teams have already visited Chamarajanagar, Mysore, Bangalore, Hassan, Gulbarga, Bidar and other districts. Strangely, only a paltry   * English translation of the speech originally delivered in Kannada.

 

amount of Rs 360/- crore has been given to the State. The State’s estimation of the total loss of property in Karnataka is Rs 4865 crores. There is urgency to provide the whole amount to Karnataka to rescue the people who are affected. There is no difference between the tsunami affected people and the people affected in the recent torrential rain in Karnataka.

            National highways, State highways are submerged in the water. Transportation in many of these roads has come to a standstill. People do not have food, clothing and they are on the roads. They have lost their houses. So, the Centre while providing relief measures should also keep in mind the rehabilitation and reconstruction.

            That is why our party leader and former Prime Minister Shri H.D. Deve Gowda had urged the Centre and Shri Sharad Pawar the hon. Minister of Agriculture to provide sufficient funds for protecting the lives of these hapless poor people who are affected by this calamity.

            My colleague and friend Shri Ananth Kumar have already explained the miserable conditions of the roads in Bangalore city. The recent calamity has damaged the roads further. Road accidents are taking place every day. there is congestion and the traffic jam is for hours every day. In fact Sir, I am sure that you are aware that the software companies have threatened to run away from the Silicon city (Bangalore) as there is gradual deterioration of infra structural facilities. Under these disturbing circumstances my humble request to the hon. Prime Minister is to provide at least one thousand crore rupees for Bangalore city development and 5000 crore rupees for the protection of recent calamity affected people in Karnataka.

Sir, once again I thank you and conclude my speech.

     

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : जैसा आप जानते हैं कि ध्यानाकर्षण प्रस्ताव पर सामान्यत: पांच सदस्यों से ज्यादा नहीं बोलते। लेकिन विषय की गम्भीरता को देखते हुए मैंने कुछ और सदस्यों को बोलने के लिए अलाऊ किया है। इसलिए उनसे निवेदन है कि वे एक मिनट में अपनी-अपनी बात कहें। I would now request Dr. C. Krishnan to speak very briefly for one minute only and he is the last speaker.

… (Interruptions)

DR. C. KRISHNAN (POLLACHI): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, in one minute nothing can be spoken. … (Interruptions)

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN (PALANI): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I have given notice five days ago. I should be given a chance to speak. … (Interruptions)

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU (SALEM): Sir, I have also given notice. Please allow me to speak. … (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN (DINDIGUL): Sir, I have also given notice. I may be allowed to speak. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I will give opportunity to you all. Please take your seats.

DR. C. KRISHNAN : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity to speak on the heavy rain havoc that has occurred in Tamil Nadu a few days ago. Before the people of Tamil Nadu could recover from drought conditions and also from Tsunami, they are very much worried now about the flood situation that is caused due to torrential rains. About 22 districts have been affected, many rivers are in spate, many tanks are breached, hundreds of people, rather countless, have died, thousands of cattle have been washed away and many villages are made islands in the State due to rain water that is surrounding the villages[k21] .

Roads[r22] , Railway lines, bridges are washed away.  Lakhs and lakhs of people are wandering without any shelter, food and water.  Water, water everywhere but no water to drink.  Many of the villages are surrounded by water.  Many huts and houses have been washed away.  Lakhs and lakhs of acres of valuable crops are washed away.  People are on the streets without any food.  The State Government has to take all the responsibility for giving shelter, food and water.  But the care taken by the Government of Tamil Nadu is not at all sufficient.  The restoration and rehabilitation work should be done on a war-footing manner.  A monitoring committee of all parties should be formed and it should monitor the funding that is being allotted by the State Government for this purpose.

            I am speaking here on behalf of my hon. leader Shri Vaiko, who is the leader of MDMK Party of Tamil Nadu. 

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN  Thank you, Mr. Deputy-Speaker Sir, I associate and share the concern expressed by other hon. Members of Tamil Nadu. 

            I would like to urge upon the Government of India to come out with a comprehensive plan, either through World Bank, for storing and utilising the excess flood water in future.  Not a single drop of unused rain water should reach ocean in future.

            The recent intermittent rains and floods have become a national calamity and national tragedy.  At the same time, I would like to thank the hon. Prime Minister, who spoke to the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu over phone and immediately sanctioned a sum of Rs.500 crore towards first instalment for relief operations.  We do hope that the Government will also be giving more funds liberally.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Thank you.  Please take you seat now.

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN : I have not yet started Sir.  My constituency has been washed away completely.  You are so liberal and magnanimous, please allow me to speak. It is a people’s issue.

            Sir, I would like to thank our hon. Prime Minister, the hon. Home Minister, the hon. Finance Minister and our Leader Shri G.K. Vasan, who made an aerial survey as soon as they heard about the havoc.  Shri T.R. Baalu, on our request, also visited the flood affected areas.

In my Dindigul constituency, Vedasandur, Sholavandan Assembly segments are badly affected.   Most of the areas in Madurai District were badly affected.  Most of the districts in Tamil Nadu were affected by droughts during the past four years and to add to their misery, they are now affected by unprecedented rains and floods. Agriculturists who have raised their crops with little money borrowed have lost all their crops.  Even now Tamil Nadu is under the grip of floods. Lakhs and lakhs of people are affected very badly.  In some parts of Tamil Nadu, there are villages which do not get electricity or drinking water or any kind of transportation for the past so many days.

 

While the relief operations are undertaken, the Members of Parliament, especially the Lok Sabha Members, and all Leaders of all Parties should be taken into confidence and should be associated with the relief work.  They are not at all consulted or invited by the present AIADMK Government. Whenever the District Administration carries out any relief operation, it should be transparent and the injustice done to the affected people during tsunami should not be repeated.

In my Dindigul District, money allotted for the affected people has not reached the needy poor and the District Administration with the blessings of the District Collector is misusing the funds.  There is no announcement or information available to the Members of Parliament regarding distribution of money and other things.  In each district, a committee consisting of all political parties should supervise the relief operations and only through them the relief operations should be conducted.

Lastly, I urge upon the Government of India that liberal credit facilities should be extended to the farmers to raise their crops again[r23] .

The encroachments in all the water bodies and supply channels should be cleared immediately for the benefit of the future generations.  Thank you.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri K.V. Thangkabalu.  You have got only one minute to speak, please.  मुझे २ बजे डब्ल्यूटीओ लेना है।

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Sir, you have give more time to the other hon. Members.  I should not be deprived of it; I should be given more time.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please continue.

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Thank you Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir.  For the past one week I was waiting for an opportunity to speak about the problem being faced by Tamil Nadu. Due to the Opposition members, this serious issue could not be discussed in this august House. 

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please come to the point.

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Yes Sir.  Tamil Nadu has seen the worst position after three continuous rains and floods which we have never seen in the past 45 years.  This is the first time that the State has got affected so much.  Almost all the districts of the State have suffered. As my learned friend said, there was continuous drought for the past four years and after the drought, for the last two or three months, we are facing the flood and the havoc of rain and its aftermath.  The whole of the agrarian system has been damaged and all the crops are completely washed away.  The majority of the houses in the villages are washed away and there is no help from any side.  Even today, after ten days of last spell of rain and havoc, most of the districts and most of the villages, as my hon. friend said, are still under water and people are not able to come out for the last five to eight days. There is no food, no water, no light and no electricity.  This is the fate of Tamil Nadu today. 

            Immediately after hearing the problem – the Government of India – the Hon’ble Prime Minister spoke to the Chief Minister and released Rs. 500 crore to the State of Tamil Nadu for the relief work.  We are thankful to him.  But, our Home Minister immediately rushed to the State and the Finance Minister and the hon. Ministers from our State rushed to the places and visited them.  Now, a Central Team has visited the State three days ago but they have not yet submitted the Report to the Government. I am sorry to say this.  I urge upon the Government to get the Report from the Central Team.  I would also like to request the hon. Home Minister to convene all the State MPs, our UPA and Lok Sabha MPs of the respective constituencies for a discussion. Almost all the MPs should be called immediately for a discussion, and we want a time frame to be fixed while giving the funds to the State because we have a bad experience in the past. After Rs. 5,00 crore have been given to the State but we do not know; there is no account.  The Chief Minister is telling that the Central Government has not given any money.  This is the state of affairs today. We urge upon the Central Government to come out with a new programme.  The hon. Members requested for CRS Guidelines.  The present CRS guidelines are not going to help the affected States of Tamil Nadu, Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka or any other State.  We want revised Guidelines to be framed immediately so that any State which is going to be affected will have a protection from the Government of India. 

            Secondly, the farmers, the poor peasants, the workers, the people affected in the agricultural sector should be fully compensated and all the loans given to the farmers should be waived off immediately without any loss of time.  We also want crop loans to be given immediately by the nationalised banks. I want that the Home Minister should have a discussion with the Finance Minister, and the Prime Minister should immediately intervene to see that all the facilities which are required by the State should be given.  Our Chief Minister, our leaders of the UPA have demanded that the requested money be given to the State immediately without any loss of time.  Sir, Rs. 5,000 crore should be sent immediately to the State as the first instalment, and then after an assessement, after talking to the MPs, more funds should be allocated to the State for rebuilding the State.[r24]              People are not able to undertake any business and agriculture.  Everybody is starving.  The Central Government should immediately come out with a package to help the people of Tamil Nadu.  I, therefore, request the hon. Minister to convene a meeting of the Members of Parliament belonging to Tamil Nadu.  I also request the hon. Prime Minister to announce a package without any loss of time.

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, due to unprecedented rains, nearly 21 districts in Tamil Nadu including my Dindigul District were badly affected.  Water tanks, check dams, minor bridges, dwelling houses, crops, cattle and agricultural lands were totally washed away. In my District, Dindigul Town, Natham, Ottanchatram, Palani and Vedanchatram Talukas were very badly affected. Thousands of people had lost their houses.  Erode district was also badly affected.

   

            The Tamil Nadu Government has demanded a first instalment of Rs. 1,800 crore.  After the visit of a team of the hon. Ministers, a sum of Rs. 500 crore was allocated.  This is not sufficient. More funds have to be allocated for solving the problems of the people of Tamil Nadu. 

            Secondly, for the past three years the farmers in Tamil Nadu had struggled for water and without water they were not able to irrigate anything. Now, they were totally affected due to water.  Agricultural loans, co-operative bank loans and other loans have to be totally waived off.  New loans have to be given to the farmers. 

            In my district Dindigul, the Public Works Department and all other Departments in collusion with the District Administration are misusing the funds which they are getting from the Government for the flood relief work. They are not giving money to the affected people but they are giving money to the unaffected people based on the political vendetta.   So, a monitoring Committee comprising all the Members of Tamil Nadu has to be constituted.  I also urge the Government of India immediately to allocate Rs. 5,000 crore to save the affected people of Tamil Nadu.

गृह मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री (श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल) : माननीय उपाध्यक्ष जी, मैं आपका आभार व्यक्त करता हूं कि आपने इतनी बड़ी विभीषिका और तबाही तमिलनाडु और कर्नाटक में जो बाढ़ के कारण हुई है, उसकी गम्भीरता को दिखाने के लिए ही कॉलिंग अटैंशन की परम्पराओं से अलग हट कर बहुत सारे माननीय सदस्यों को इस संबंध में अपनी राय तथा समस्याएं रखने का अवसर प्रदान किया। मैं आपको एश्योर करता हूं कि आज आपने जिस गम्भीरता के साथ इस बहस को कराया है, उसी गम्भीरता के तहत भारत सरकार इस समस्या के समाधान के लिए वे सभी कदम उठाएगी, जिन कदमों को उठाने की आवश्यकता है। मैंने अपनी स्टेटमैंट में बताया है और मैं फिर बताना चाहता हूं कि तीन स्पैल में बल्कि अब चार स्पैल में बाढ़ की विभीषिका आई। फस्र्ट स्पैल में २३.१०.२००५ से ३.११.२००५ तक, सैकिंड स्पैल में ४.११.२००५ से १३.११.२००५ तक, थर्ड स्पैल में २२.११.२००५ से १५.११.२००५ तक और सबसे लेटेस्ट स्पैल, इस वक्त २.१२.२००५ से ४.१२.२००५ में बाढ़ आई है। इसमें कोई शक नहीं है। मैं यहां सभी माननीय सदस्यों का नाम नहीं लेना चाहता हूं। उन्होंने जिस तरीके से बताया है कि तमिलनाडु और कर्नाटक में बाढ़ से जितनी बड़ी तबाही हुई है - चाहे फसलों का नष्ट होना हो, चाहे जानवरों का मरना हो चाहे इन्सानों की मृत्यु हो, चाहे इनफ्रास्ट्रक्चर का नष्ट होना हो, रेल लाइन की तबाही हो, सड़कों की तबाही हो, हाईवेज की तबाही हो, छोटे-बड़े मकानों का ढहना हो - ये सब ह्ृदय विदारक है। हमारी जो टीम गई थी, उसमें पहले गृह मंत्री जी गए थे, उनके साथ वित्त मंत्री और हमारे कुलिंग श्री ऱघुपति भी गए lÉä[R25]। इन लोगों ने अपनी आंखों से देखा कि किस तरह की तबाही हुई है। मुझे यह कहने की आवश्यकता नहीं है कि इस आपदा की घड़ी में तामिलनाडु और कर्नाटक की जनता के साथ भारत सरकार कंधे से कंधा मिलाकर खड़ी हुई है।

उपाध्यक्ष जी, माननीय सदस्यों ने तीन-चार ऐसे प्रश्न उठाये हैं जिनका मुझे जवाब देना है, बाकी के बारे में मैंने अपने स्टेटमेंट में सब कुछ लिख दिया है। कई माननीय सदस्यों ने इस बात को उठाया कि माननीय सदस्यों और विधायकों की एक कमेटी बनाई जाये जो इस बात की मौनिटरिंग करें। माननीय सदस्यों का यह आरोप है क सरकारें उस धन का इतना सदुपयोग नहीं कर रही हैं जितना उन्हें करना चाहिये था। मैं माननीय सदस्यों से अनुरोध करना चाहूंगा कि ये सारे काम - पैसे का यूटिलाइजेशन, किये गये कार्यों की मौनिटरिंग करना - यह राज्य सरकारों का दायित्व होता है। मुझे इस बात में कोई शंका नहीं है कि राज्य सरकारें इस काम को कर रही होंगी। अगर माननीय सदस्य इस संबंध में कोई मौनिटरिंग कमेटी चाहते हैं तो उन्हें राज्य के मुख्य मंत्री से मिलकर अनुरोध करना चाहिये कि लोकल बॉडीज की चेयर पर्सन…( व्यवधान) 

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : I am sorry to interrupt the Minister. … (Interruptions) The Minister should not ask the MPs to go and meet the Chief Minister since the Chief Minister has not bothered to convene a meeting of the Tamil Nadu MPs for the last four years to discuss any issue of Tamil Nadu. … (Interruptions) So, we have no commitment to meet the Chief Minister.… (Interruptions)

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN : Why should we go and meet the Chief Minister?… (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN : A direction must go from here. … (Interruptions)

 

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN : She has not replied even to the letter.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I would request you to please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI S.K. KHARVENTHAN : Why should we meet the Chief Minister?… (Interruptions)

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : The Chief Minister has not bothered to meet us for the last four years.  … (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : Reply is not satisfactory. Why should we meet the Chief Minister? Is this the way the Minister should respond?… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN : The guideline must go from here.… (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I would request the hon. Members to please sit down. First, let him complete his speech. Then if you have any doubt and if you want to seek any clarification, I will allow you.

श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल : उपाध्यक्ष जी, माननीय सदस्यों ने इस संबंध में जो बातें उठायी हैं और जो चिन्ता व्यक्त की है, मैं खासकर तामिलनाडु के माननीय सदस्यों के संबंध में कोई टिप्पणी नहीं करना चाहता लेकिन मैं उन्हें इतना एश्योर करना चाहता हूं कि उनके द्वारा की गई चिन्ता के बारे में माननीय मुख्य मंत्री को अवगत कराऊंगा कि माननीय सदस्यों की यह राय थी कि कोई मौनिटरिंग कमेटी बना दी जाये जिसमें माननीय संसद सदस्य और विधायक भी रहें। इस कमेटी में लोकल बॉडीज की चेयर पर्सन शामिल हों। अगर इस संबंध में कोई मौनिटरिंग कमेटी बना दी जाये तो उसकी मौनिटरिंग अच्छी तरीक से हो सकती है। इसके अतरिक्तमाननीय सदस्यों की जोभावनायें हैं, उनका आदर हो सकता है। भारत सरकार जो कुछ कर सकती है, वह करेगी लेकिन यह राज्य सरकारों का दायित्व होता है कि वह इस तरह की कमेटी बनायें। माननीय सांसदों और विधायकों की चिन्ता को अपने साथ जोड़कर उस समस्या का समाधान प्रस्तुत करें।

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, सभी माननीय सदस्यों ने कहा है कि राहत राशि बहुत कम भेजी गई है। मैं माननीय सदस्यों को अवगत कराना चाहता हूं कि जो राशि यहां से भेजी गई है, वह राहत के लिये है जो त्वरित राहत के लिये होता है। जिस समय विभीषिका खड़ी होती है, उस समय भारत सरकार एन.एन.सी.एफ. से पैसा देती हैऔर राज्य सरकार सी.एम.आर.एफ. से पैसा देती है। इस विभीषिका का जायजा लेने के लिये हमारी केन्द्र की एक टीम गई है। उसने अपनी रिपोर्ट दी है जिसका अध्ययन हो रहा है। जैसे ही रिपोर्ट का पूरा अध्ययन हो जायेगा, अगर और पैसे की मांग की गई होगी तो भारत सरकार वह पैसा देने के लिये कटिबद्ध है[RB26]।

जहां तक इनफ्रास्ट्रक्चर की बात कही गई है, माननीय सदस्यों ने, खास तौर से अनंत कुमार जी ने कहा है क बंगलौर में बड़ी तबाही हुई है, सड़कें खराब हो गईं, तमिलनाडु में भी सड़कें टूट गई हैं। इनफ्रास्ट्रक्चर के संबंध में जब तक राज्य सरकार कोई प्लान बनाकर भारत सरकार को नहीं भेजती है, तब तक यह पैसा देना संभव नहीं होता है।इनफ्रास्ट्रक्चर के संबंध में बहुत से पैसे का यूं ही आकलन करके राज्य सरकार यदि भेज दे और उस पैसे का हम एलोकेशन कर दें, यह संभव नहीं हो सकता है। हमनेतमिलनाडु और कर्नाटक की राज्य सरकारों से कहा है। इन सरकारों ने हमें भरोसा दिलाया है कि वे बहुत जल्दी वे पूरा प्लान बनाकर भारत सरकार के पास भेज देंगे। यहां प्लानिंग कमीशन में जाने के बाद हमारे मंत्रालय में एक अथारिटी बनी है, वहां उन सारी चीजों का बारीकी से अध्ययन किया जाएगा और जो कुछ भी मैक्सिमम मदद भारत सरकार के माध्यम से हो सकती है, हम उस मैक्सिमम मदद को करने के लिए तैयार हैं। हम इस बात के लिए माननीय सदस्यों को पूरी तरह से एश्योर करते हैं।

श्री मोहन सिंह (देवरिया) : मैक्सिमम की परिभाषा क्या है?

श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल : ज्यादा से ज्यादा।

श्री मोहन सिंह : यह तो उसका अनुवाद हुआ। कुछ तो अनुमानित बताइए।

श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल : हम और आप तो हिन्दी भाषी राज्य के हैं, इसलिए इस तरह की परिभाषा पूछ रहे हैं। ज्यादा से ज्यादा। ज्यादा से ज्यादा यही तो मैं कह सकता हूं।

बांध से पानी छोड़े जाने के बारे में माननीय अननंत कुमार जी ने कहा है। हमारे देश की भौगोलिक स्थिति ऐसी है कि कभी किसी राज्य में किसी साल बाढ़ आती है, कभी किसी राज्य में किसी साल सूखा पड़ता है। अगर बांध खतरे में पड़ रहा हो तो उस राज्य की लाचारी होती है कि उस बांध से पानी छोड़ दिया जाए, वरना वह भी ढह जाएगा। पानी तो तबाही मचाएगा ही, बांध भी समाप्त हो जाएगा। इसलिए बांध के बारे में यह कहना ठीक नहीं है कि बांध से पानी छोड़ दिया जाता है, उसकी वजह से तबाही आती है।

श्री अनंत कुमार (बंगलौर दक्षिण) : बिना पूर्व सूचना के पानी छोड़ दिया गया। कर्नाटक के मुख्य मंत्री जो कांग्रेस के मुख्य मंत्री हैं, उन्होंने केन्द्र के गृह मंत्री को पत्र लिखा है कि बिना पूर्व सूचना के इतनी भारी मात्रा में पानी छोड़ेंगे तो ज्यादा तबाही मचती है। इसलिए बांधों के लिए कोई कोआर्डिनेशन होना चाहिए, इंटीग्रेटेड मॉनीटरिंग होनी चाहिए, यही हमारा निवेदन है। इसलिए हमने सैन्ट्रल वाटर कमीशन के तहत केन्द्र सरकार का इंटरवैन्शन मांगा है।

श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल : मैं इस संबंध में राज्य सरकार से कहूंगा कि जब कभी बांधों से पानी छोड़ा जाए, उसकी पूर्व सूचना होनी चाहिए। इस संबंध में कोई समति भी होनी चाहिए जो तय करे कि जितने भी बांधों से जब भी पानी छोड़ा जाए, उसके लिए एक समयावधि होनी चाहिए कि इतने समय पहले राज्य को सूचित कर दिया जाए कि पानी छोड़ा जा रहा है जिससे राज्य अपनी तैयारियां कर ले और जो कुछ नुकसान होने की संभावना है, उसको रोकने के हर संभव उपाय कर सके। मैं आपकी इस बात से सहमत हूं।

मैं समझता हूं कि सारी बातों का जवाब हो गया है। मैंने जो स्टेटमैंट दिया है, उसमें सारी बातों का जवाब दे दिया है। …( व्यवधान) 

श्री अनंत कुमार : सैन्ट्रल कैलामिटी रिलीफ फंड की गाइडलाइन्स के बारे में हमने कहा है। …( व्यवधान) 

श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल : माननीय सदस्यों ने यह भी कहा है कि जो पैमाना निर्धारित किया गया है सीआऱएफ का और एनसीसीएफ का, उसको भी रिवाइज़ किया जाना चाहिए। मैं आपकी भावनाओं से माननीय गृह मंत्री जी को अवगत करा दूंगा और प्रधान मंत्री जी से भी अनुरोध करूंगा। …( व्यवधान) 

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय :  अनंत कुमार जी, आप बैठ जाइए।

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR :  In August only, a Group of Ministers was constituted by the Government of India to revise the CRF guidelines. … (Interruptions)

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Sir, I have got one clarification.… (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR :  It has not been revised. … (Interruptions)

 

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय :  आप चारों में से डिसाइड कर लें कि किसको बोलना है। मैं एक को ही पूछने दूंगा[h27]।

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF FINANCE (SHRI S.S. PALANIMANICKAM): Sir, there have been queries from hon. Members from Tamil Nadu regarding the monitoring committee. There has been misuse of funds out of the aid given by the Central Government for Tsunami relief. So, on the basis of the Right to Information Act, our hon. Members of Parliament want the list of beneficiaries and statement of expenditure incurred by the State Government to be displayed in all the flood affected areas. I want a categorical reply from the hon. Minister on this point. … (Interruptions)

उपाध्यक्ष महोदय :  आपके मंत्री जी ने यह सवाल पूछ लिया है।

...( व्यवधान)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : Sir, we have waited for ten days for this Calling Attention. We are very much dissatisfied with the reply given by the hon. Minister of State in the Ministry of Home Affairs. Why could the Cabinet Minister not reply to the issues raised? Why could we not have a reply from the other hon. Minister of State, Shri Reghupathy? We are very much dissatisfied with the reply. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. Minister wants to say something.

… (Interruptions)

THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF DEFENCE AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI BIJOY HANDIQUE): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, there is a time constraint. We have to start the discussion on the WTO Ministerial Conference and conclude it by four o’clock. After that, that discussion would be taken up in the Rajya Sabha. So, if hon. Members from Tamil Nadu want to continue discussion on this subject, we can take it up after four o’clock. … (Interruptions)

 

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : On the issue of the Volcker Committee Report, they have wasted five days. In the case of Tamil Nadu, we are 40 Members and we take the least amount of time. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BIJOY HANDIQUE: We can take it up after four o’clock. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Krishnaswamy, please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : We want more time to be given for discussion on this issue. … (Interruptions)

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Sir, this is a very important issue. We have waited all these days to raise it. … (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : Our State MPs consume the least time of the House but we are not given proper reply. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BIJOY HANDIQUE: Sir, as I said, there is a time constraint. … (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : Let the Cabinet Minister give the reply. We are not satisfied with the reply given by the Minister of State. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BIJOY HANDIQUE: We can continue this at four o’clock.

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Why should we wait till four o’clock? Why are you giving more time to other issues? This is also a very important issue. We want this issue to be given its proper importance. With due respect to you, we want the hon. Minister to come and reply now. … (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : We have already waited for ten days while all these days were wasted on the Volcker Committee Report. Who is responsible for that? … (Interruptions)

SHRI BIJOY HANDIQUE: Sir, the discussion on WTO would be there only up to four o’clock. After that, it would be taken up in Rajya Sabhya. … (Interruptions)

 

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Why not now? We have waited for four days. … (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : On other issues hon. Members from every State have been given opportunity but has our State been given a chance? … (Interruptions) We have 40 MPs from Tamil Nadu but we have not consumed much of the time of Parliament. … (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN : Sir, if we have to wait up to four o’clock, everyone of us should be given a chance. … (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : We are the Members who consume the least amount of time. You can check every record to find that out. … (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN : After four o’clock, everybody from our State should be given a chance. … (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: After four o’clock, we would give you time.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN : Thank you, Sir. … (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : Let the Cabinet Minister come. We want the Cabinet Minister to come. Let the Cabinet Minister come and respond. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : We have raised a very important issue under Calling Attention. He should give the reply. He should complete the reply.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: We have very little time. So, we cannot take up item No. 12 today. That would be taken up tomorrow or another day.

… (Interruptions)

       

MADAM CHAIRMAN : If the House agrees, we can take up the reply of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.  He will reply to the Call Attention raised by Dr. Chinta Mohan.  Then, again we can continue this discussion.

*m17 गृह मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री (श्री श्रीप्रकाश जायसवाल) : सभापति जी, हमने लगभग सारे पाइंट्स पर रिप्लाई दे दिया था। एक-दो पाइंट्स रह गये थे जिन पर माननीय अनंत कुमार जी स्पष्टीकरण चाहते थे। उनका कहना था कि सीआरएफ, एनसीसीएफ की जो ऐड आती है, उसका फिर से रिवीजन होना चाहिए। मैं आपके माध्यम से सदन को बताना चाहता हूं कि होम-मनिस्ट्री में एक एक्सपर्ट ग्रूप इस संबंध में बना दिया गया है जिसमें स्टेट गवर्नमेंट के प्रतनधि और संबंधित सेंट्रल मनिस्ट्रीज के विभागों के प्रतनधि रखे गये हैं। इस बात पर विचार चल रहा है कि उनकी जो भी रिक्मेंडेशन्स आयेंगी, उनके अनुसार रेट को रिवाइज्ड कर दिया जाएगा। तमिलनाडु के हमारे माननीय सदस्यों की यह मांग थी कि जो फंड या रिलीफ जाती है, उसकी मॉनटिरिंग के लिए, सेंट्रल गवर्नमेंट की तरफ से कोई मॉनटिरिंग कमेटी बननी चाहिए। केन्द्रीय स्तर पर इस तरह की कोई मॉनटिरिंग कमेटी बनाने का प्रावधान नहीं है लेकिन हम उनकी भावनाओं से पूरी तरह से सहमत हैं और हमारे माननीय सदस्यों ने अपनी जो भावनाएं व्यक्त की हैं, हम संबंधित राज्यों को इस बात की सूचना देंगे कि लोक सभा के माननीय सदस्यों की इस तरह की भावनाएं हैं कि कोई मॉनटिरिंग कमेटी बने जिसमें मैम्बर्स पार्लियामेंट, असेम्बली मैम्बर्स, लोकल बॉडी के चेयर-पर्सन हों, जिससे रिलीफ की मॉनटिरिंग अच्छी तरह से हो स्ÉBÉEä[r28]। यह काम राज्यों के हित में होगा।राज्य सरकार जो मानिटरिंग आफीसर्स से कराती है या अपने मंत्रियों के माध्यम से कराती है, मैं समझता हूं कि यदि एमपीज और एमएलएज की एक एडीशनल कमेटी बना दी जाए, तो मानिटरिंग का काम ज्यादा अच्छी तरह से हो सकता है। इस तरह की संबंधित रिकमंडेशंस संबंधित राज्यों को भेज दी जाएंगी। मैं समझता हूं कि सारे इश्यूज क्लियर हो चुके हैं और सारे क्लेरफिकेशंस आ चुके हैं।

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY Madam, in my Calling Attention I raised the point about the fourth spell of rain. It was not responded to by the hon. Minister. Because of this fourth spell of rain, there were damages which spoiled the entire Kanchipuram, Tiruvallur and Chennai districts and also other districts of Tamil Nadu. I want to know how much fund the Central Government has allocated and how much it is going to allocate to the State. This should be enlightened.

            The Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu was saying day before yesterday in a Press statement that the Central Government have not pumped any funds from the Central Government. There is a misuse of funds in the State. We have a bad experience earlier in the case of tsunami. Already they constituted the Monitoring Committee including with MPs and MLAs. There was no effect through this Committee. Not even one meeting was convened. So, we asked the hon. Minister whether the Monitoring and Vigilance Committee which is already there under the Ministry of Rural Development will monitor the relief fund for the flood affected areas. I want to know this. … (Interruptions)

MADAM CHAIRMAN : Again, if everybody starts asking questions, it would be difficult.

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Madam, just a minute please.

            Madam Chairperson, we are happy that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs is here and we are also thankful to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs for having undertaken a tour of the affected areas in Tamil Nadu. The moment the message came here, our hon. Prime Minister has sanctioned Rs. 500 crore immediately; rather he spoke to the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu on his own, and not on a request made by the Chief Minister. The Chief Minister used to rush to the hon. Prime Minister and the Central Government for seeking relief. But on the contrary, the hon. Prime Minister himself spoke to Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu.

            As my hon. friend said, day before yesterday, the Chief Minister was accusing the Central Government of not helping the State.

MADAM CHAIRMAN : If you want to ask anything, then please ask.

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Madam, I am coming to that. We, the Members of Parliament from Tamil Nadu feel that the funds which are sent to the State should be monitored properly and spent properly and they should reach the needy people for which we demanded that a Monitoring Committee is essential by the Members of Parliament and the elected people. There is a system that is already existing. Just now the hon. Minister of State for Home Affairs informed the House that there is no system by which we can form a Committee. But, Madam, the Central Government has already formed a Monitoring Committee and all the centrally sponsored programmes are monitored by the MPs, MLAs and elected representatives of the districts. This Committee is already there. The MP is the Chairman.

            The Central Government is going to send a huge amount of money for the development of Tamil Nadu and to meet the situation. Now, we request the hon. Minister of Home Affairs to inform the State Government that this money is to be utilised through the Committee and the MPs and MLAs should be given the opportunity to oversee the implementation also.

MADAM CHAIRMAN : Okay, thank you. We are again discussing the same issue. All of you have already spoken on this. Please cooperate.

SHRI K.V. THANGKABALU : Madam, we need the help and patronage from the hon. Minister of Home Affairs because he has seen the tragic situation in Tamil Nadu. Another thing that we request is now the first instalment of Rs. 500 crore has been given. On the hon. Prime Minister’s advice and the recommendation of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, a Central Team has toured, surveyed, and submitted a report. Now we are waiting for the Government to come forward to give the maximum relief.

            The State Government has asked Rs. 13,000 crore. The hon. Minister of State for Home Affairs has said on the floor of the House that whatever funds are required and asked by the State Government they will be given. I want to categorically know what is the total amount we are going to give to the State and we want our Central Government to give to Tamil Nadu liberally, a substantial amount so that we can rebuild the State.  At least a minimum of Rs. 5,000 crore is to be given in the first instance and then after verifying the facts and seeing the reports, then they can give more funds. This is what our requirement is.

SHRI N.S.V. CHITTHAN Thank you, Madam Chairperson. At the outset, I would like to thank, and convey my appreciation to our hon. Home Minister who had made an aerial survey in Tamil Nadu as soon as he heard about the flood victims.

            Madam, I want to mention only two points. Firstly, the beneficiary list of the flood victims should be displayed in every Taluk Office Headquarters as also in the concerned Village Administrative Offices.

            Secondly, the Public Works Department should contain a display board showing the expenditure incurred, and mentioning about the relief work in vernacular language. These are the two points that I wish to make at this point. Thank you.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR Thank you, Madam Chairperson. I think that the hon. Minister has attempted to respond to my queries. Now, my only question is regarding the revision of guidelines for the release of CRF. I would like to mention that the CRF guidelines are there only for the drought conditions. Recently, the hon. Prime Minister had announced a Tsunami package and assurances were also given by the hon. Prime Minister, the hon. Home Minister and the hon. Agriculture Minister that they would look into the issue of revision of CRF guidelines.

   

A Group of Ministers (GoM) has also been constituted by the hon. Prime Minister on this issue in August, and three months’ have since elapsed. I want to know this from the hon. Minister. How many of its meetings have been held? Was this matter deliberated upon or not? What revisions did the Union Government formulate on this issue -- if the matter was deliberated -- in order to give relief to the farmers?

            Secondly, the hon. Chief Minister of Karnataka had written a letter to the hon. Prime Minister on 12/08/2005 regarding heavy discharge of water from the reservoirs in Maharashtra, especially, from the Koyna Dam. This had happened because there were earthquakes on August 1st and 3rd to the tune of 2 to 3 on the Richter Scale. This was according to the Bhaba Atomic Research Centre.

            The hon. Home Minister while replying to the previous Calling Attention moved by me had replied that : “Earth will always be trembling, and there should be no scare in the minds of the people about this issue.” I entirely appreciate his point, but, at the same time, it is a dangling sword on the people of Karnataka, especially, the people living in the downstream five districts of Karnataka, namely, Bijapur, Bagalkot, Belgaum, Raichur, and Gulbarga.

What are the measures being taken by the Union Government, through the Central Water Commission (CWC), so that it can intervene and give instructions to the Maharashtra Government to coordinate about the release of water from the dams, especially, from Koyna Dam and others. I am saying this because it has created an artificial flood like Tsunami in Karnataka.

THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): Madam, my colleague has replied to many of the questions that were raised by the hon. Members. The Minister makes a statement at the time of moving a Calling Attention Motion. Thereafter, some clarificatory questions are asked, and the replies given. I am sure that he has been able to reply to most of the points, which   have been raised here. I am asked, for the second time to reply, and I am trying to do my best.

            In Tamil Nadu, heavy rains have caused a lot of damage. This is the fourth spell of rains, which has occurred there. We are very sorry that the people in Tamil Nadu are suffering because of these rains. We have given Rs. 500 crore as an ad hoc grant, and Rs. 86 crore from CRF. But one thing that has to be very clearly understood by the hon. Members is that this is not an amount of money given to the State Government for rehabilitation and reconstruction purposes[ak29] .This is the amount of money given to the Government for providing relief. Relief means the first step. When it rains, some people suffer. They do not have food; they do not have clothes; they do not have utensils; they need immediate shelter. It is for this purpose that this amount of money has been given to the Government of Tamil Nadu.

            The Government of Tamil Nadu has asked for Rs.13,000 crore. That is meant for reconstruction. Reconstruction has to be distinguished from relief. This amount of money is meant for relief. Let the hon. Members understand this. I repeat, this amount of money is meant for giving relief, not for reconstruction.  If Rs.13,000 crore are given by the Union Government, that work will continue for not one year but for two years or even three years. It will take a long time.

What we do from here is, when such calamities occur we give ad hoc grants. Rs.500 crore were given to Gujarat; Rs.500 crore have been given to Tamil Nadu; Rs.500 crore have been given to Jammu and Kashmir. These are meant for relief. Let us understand this. These are not meant for rehabilitation. These are meant for relief. Unless we understand the distinction between relief and rehabilitation, we are likely to commit a mistake.

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY  : We understood that. I want to know from the hon. Minister whether that Rs.500 crore reached the State  Government or not. … (Interruptions) Day before yesterday, the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu told a reporter that this Rs.500 crore have not reached Tamil Nadu.

MADAM CHAIRMAN : Please sit down. This is not the way to interrupt.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I do not know where are they getting this information from. The Finance Minister comes from Tamil Nadu. On the very next day, I was told, the money was released. I will find out from the Finance Minister. This kind of discussion does not help us.

            What we are saying is, Rs.13,000 crore is a very big amount of money. If it has to be given, it will be given. But it cannot be given on the basis of a letter or on the basis of a memorandum.  There has to be a plan prepared for that. If roads are damaged, if dams are damaged, if a number of houses have to be constructed, if agricultural land has to be brought back to a condition in which it becomes fertile, plans have to be made. We have asked the State Government, “Please do not worry. Prepare plans and send those plans. We will examine them and we will give you the money which can be given and which is needed”.

Let us understand this. Let us not confuse relief with rehabilitation. Once you confuse relief with rehabilitation, then your heart is filled with fear as to how you would manage this crisis with Rs.500 crore. We are not asking the State Government to manage this kind of a calamity with Rs.500 crore. If you need more money you should come with a regular plan which will be examined and we would like to see.

            Only today, myself, the Finance Minister and the Agriculture Minister were sitting together. We have decided to write to the State Government to get the plans without any delay, examine them, and without any delay give them more money. Let us understand this thing. This is the position.

   

On Karnataka, the Chief Minister of the State, Shri Ananth Kumarji and others met me. They explained to me the difficulties faced by the people. We realise it. Without waiting for any demand coming from there, the Prime Minister went there. The Agriculture Minister also went there. They released nearly Rs.350 crore. Some more money – Rs.80 crore or Rs.90 crore – is also given. That is also for relief and not for rehabilitation. That day in a long discussion we had with hon. Ananth Kumarji and the Chief Minister of the State, I have explained to them that the Government of India is going to be quite sympathetic[KMR30] .

            But you do not expect Rs.3,000 crores or Rs.4,000 crores to be given to the States on the basis of a memorandum.  It has to come in the shape of a plan or demand.  We would examine it and we would give it. This applies to Karnataka also. 

            Thirdly, a lot of States have suffered.  Karnataka has suffered.  Tamil Nadu has suffered.  To some extent, Kerala has suffered.  There was flood in Gujarat.  There was flood in Maharashtra.  There was flood in Andhra Pradesh.  There was flood in other parts also.  The total amount of demand is Rs.35,000 crores.  Now, if Rs.35,000 crores  has to be made available to the State Governments, it should be done on a regular and planned manner.  We are asking them to do it. 

            Fourthly, I come to the CRF.  The difficulty with the hon. Members and in my Ministry also is that they think that every assistance which has to be given to the State Government has to come through CRF.  It cannot come from CRF because  the amount of money which is made available  to give to the State Government through this scheme is very limited.  Please see as to what kind of money was given in the past.  Only Rs.10 crores, or Rs.15 crores or Rs.20 crores or Rs.30 crores were given through CRF, not more than that.  But here, this year, we have given Rs.500 crores to each of these States.  This money is not coming from CRF.  We could not have given this money through CRF. This is an ad-hoc grant made by the Government, and for this, we have to go to the Cabinet, and the Cabinet clears it and then the money is given. We have not even waited for the Cabinet clearance also.  If the Prime Minister says or if the Finance Minister says, or if others say, ex-post-facto sanction has to be given and we have released this money. So, please do not be under the impression that CRF is helpful in matters like this.  The money which can be given under CRF is very limited. . It will not help you even to cover one district also.  So, this kind of money cannot cover.  If you want to change the norms of this also - we have changed the norms of CRF and other schemes also - again, we have asked a group of officers to look into it as to how it can be changed.  But even with the changes in the norms under these schemes, the funds which will be given will not satisfy the demands of the State Governments.  They would say as to how can they manage with this. That is why, we have to make extra amount available to them by taking it to the Cabinet.  We have looked into the norms which are followed, which are very stringent norms, very mall norms, which can help you for a week or a month, and such other things. It cannot help you to reconstruct the houses, to reconstruct the bridges, and to reconstruct the installations which have been broken down. So, money is not going to come from CRF.  Money has to be given to the State Government by passing a resolution in the Cabinet and that amount of money is going to be a big money and that is not bound or restricted by the norms of CRF.  We have different criteria applied for this.  But if the Members want that  it should be looked into, we would look into it.  We have once looked into it. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : Especially for the crop loans in the dry land and wet land areas in Karnataka.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: If we give money out of CRF, you will not be able to satisfy the farmers at all.  Whatever norms we change, it will not satisfy.  That is why, we are looking towards this problem -this is a big calamity - from a different angle.  We are saying that we are not bound by the norms of CRF.  We are adopting different criteria to help and those different criteria are quiet liberal and that has to be examined by the Planning Ministry, the Ministry of Home Affairs,   the Agriculture Ministry and the Finance Ministry and then we are going to do it. We will not be giving much more than what can be given under the norms.

            As far as the meeting of the MPs, etc. are concerned, the hon. MPs have been very careful in raising this issue.  They have personally talked to me.  They have raised this issue in this House.  They have raised the issue in the other House also[R31] . Because of the persuasion of the hon. Members, the Government of India is also very liberally helping the State Governments. In the first instance, at no time, Rs.500 crore were given in the past as an  ad hoc grant. That is why, we would like to request the State Governments, the Chief Ministers that they should take the hon. MPs and hon. MLAs from those districts which are affected, into confidence. It would be better for them to have a meeting organised and consult the MPs and MLAs  as to how the assistance can be given to the people. I have said it on the floor of the House that if it is necessary we will convey this message to the Chief Ministers also. But ultimately, it is for the Chief Ministers to take action. In the federal structure, it would not be very proper for me to issue directives to the Chief Ministers that they should do this thing and that thing. I am sure that having heard what we are saying on the floor of the House, they will take into consideration the views of the elected representatives of the Legislatures as well as the Parliament. Let us see what happens. If it is necessary, I shall write to the Chief Ministers saying that this is what has been said. Please consult them and please take them into confidence so that they can give some ideas as well as monitor the scheme. This can be properly done because they live in the area, MLAs live in the districts, MPs live in the constituencies. More than anyone else, if it is necessary they would be in a position to supervise what is being done.

            As for Tsunami, we have given a lot of money. The Prime Minister has directed as to how the funds would be spent. It should be looked into by the Planning Minister, the Finance Minister and the Home Minister. We would also be keeping a watch on what is being done for that. … (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : No work has been done in Tamil Nadu. … (Interruptions)

MADAM CHAIRMAN : You should not interrupt like that. That is not the way.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI A. KRISHNASWAMY : Nothing has been done under the Rural Development. … (Interruptions)

MADAM CHAIRMAN: This is not the way. It will not go on record.

(Interruptions)* … SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: This hon. Member is mixing up the two issues. Rural development is different from this.

MADAM CHAIRMAN: You can complete your answer.

… (Interruptions)

MADAM CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record. This is not the way.

(Interruptions)* … SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: The hon. Member has not understood the issue properly. He is confusing the thing. I will explain to him outside the House.

            As far as Koyna matter is concerned, please do not spread the scare. Last time also the hon. Member had raised this issue. As far as my information goes, Koyna Dam was built and strengthened and it is in good condition. If you want, I will ask the Chief Minister or you can talk to the Chief Minister and I will ask him to give you the information about this. … (Interruptions)

   

* Not Recorded.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR  : Nobody is spreading the scare. He is a very senior leader and the hon. Minister. Actually, when Shri Jaiswal was speaking, I read out the letter of the hon. Chief Minister of Karnataka written to the hon. Prime Minister regarding Koyna matter. He has very clearly written :

“The heavy discharge of water from the reservoirs in Maharashtra has resulted in unprecedented floods in five northern districts of Karnataka viz. Belgaum, Bijapur, Bagalkot, Gulbarga and Raichur.”   SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I am talking about the earthquake. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : It is further written:

“Koyna Dam for the last two decades has been experiencing recurring earthquakes whose epicentres are either under the dam or very close to it. Two such earthquakes occurred on 1st and 3rd August, 2005.”   This is the letter of the Chief Minister written to the Prime Minister. … (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: He must have talked to him over phone. … (Interruptions)

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : It is mentioned:

“On these dates, Koyna dam was completely full and had 97 tmc of water in store. Due to these earthquakes, the dam was reported to have developed some cracks…Further, threatened by the earthquakes and cracks in the dam, Maharashtra resorted to heavy discharges from Koyna Dam resulting in unprecedented floods which inundated Sangli and Kolhapur town, apart from a good number of villages in downstream of Maharashtra and Karnataka.”   MADAM CHAIRMAN: This is not the way.

… (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI V. RADHIKA SELVI (TIRUCHENDUR): You should permit all Members. … (Interruptions)

MADAM CHAIRMAN: You give him the letter afterwards.

… (Interruptions)

 

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : He has said:

“We are in an unfortunate situation of suffering unprecedented floods in Karnataka on account of the failure of Government of Maharashtra to regulate the discharge of water from their reservoirs.”   This is what the Chief Minister has written. … (Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I am not going to reply to all the questions which are not pertinent. I would like to say that people are scared[p32] .  He has said that the Koyna dam is likely to burst because of the earthquake.

MADAM CHAIRMAN :  He is not saying so.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL:  He did say last time, Madam.  I had a tiff with him.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : I never said that it is going to burst.  I am only saying, whether the Central Government would intervene and direct the Maharashtra Government through Central Water Commission to protect the Koyna dam.

MADAM CHAIRMAN:  Just now, this is not the concerned issue.

SHRI ANANTH KUMAR :  This is  the direct cause of the floods in the northern parts of Karnataka.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : Moreover, I would like to say that the country of ours is a very big country.  Let us not conduct ourselves in such a manner that there would be divisions.  I get the letter saying that the Karnataka should not release water, it will flood Tamil Nadu. And now, somebody says that Maharashtra should not release water, it will flood Tamil Nadu and Karnataka.

            Now, without checking the facts, if he makes a statement like this, it creates dissention.  It should be better avoided.

MADAM CHAIRMAN:  You are right.  Thank you very much.

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