Lok Sabha Debates
Shri Ajoy Chakraborty Called The Attention Of The Minister Of Home Affairs To The ... on 3 December, 2007
> Title: Shri Ajoy Chakraborty called the attention of the Minister of Home Affairs to the situation arising out of violence during and after the recent demonstration by All Adivasi Students Association of Assam (AASAA) on 24 November, 2007 at Guwahati and steps taken by the Government in this regard.
MR. SPEAKER : Now, we will take up Calling Attention – Item No. 21.
May I make a request to the hon. Members?
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Please cooperate. Just wait.
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, we have given a notice. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : This is a matter which was sought to be raised during the period after the Question Hour and large number of hon. Members had given notices. I felt it was an important matter because almost all sides of the House were agitated. I am thankful to the hon. Minister for responding to my request to convert it into a Calling Attention. I am thankful to him for his cooperation.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Ajoy Chakraborty, I have not yet called you.
I will try to accommodate all the hon. Members as I have assured, who had given notices on that day, even few more. But I earnestly appeal to all sections of the House to please cooperate with the Chair and try to finish it as briefly as possible.
Shri Ajoy Chakraborty.
* Laid on the Table and also placed in Library. See No. LT 7616/2007 SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY (BASIRHAT): Sir, I call the attention of the Minister of Home Affairs to the following matter of urgent public importance and request that he may make a statement thereon :
“Situation arising out of violence during and after the demonstration by All Adivasi Students Association of Assam (AASAA) on 24th November, 2007 at Guwahati and steps taken by the Government in this regard.”[k13] THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): Sir, I had earlier made a statement on this issue in this august House on 27th November 2007 on the basis of information made available to us by the State Government. A copy of that statement is attached herewith. I would like to draw the attention of the House to some of the developments, which have taken place since then.
The Government of Assam has decided to institute a Judicial inquiry under the Commission of Inquiries Act to be headed by Justice (Retd.) R. K. Manisena Singh to enquire into the incident of Group clashes that broke out as a consequence to the procession taken out by the All Adivasi Student Association of Assam. Three persons have been arrested, and a separate case has been registered against them for outraging the modesty of a tribal girl. The State Government has decided to give Rs. 1 lakh to the girl whose modesty was outraged during the incident. I had received a letter from the hon. Chief Minister, and he has said in that letter that the Government of Assam has decided to bear the expenses of the girl’s education throughout her life, and then give her one employment also.
The District Magistrate and the Senior Superintendent of Police, Guwahati City have been transferred. The Officer-in-Charge of the Basistha Police Station has been transferred, and one Sub-Inspector of Police has been suspended for negligence of duties. Of the total number of 242 persons who were injured in the incident, at present 123 persons are undergoing treatment at Guwahati Medical College Hospital. Again, I am informed by the hon. Chief Minister that the expenses required to be borne for this kind of treatment will be borne by the State Government.
The State Government has alerted the District Administration of all the districts having mixed population of Adivasis and Non-Adivasis to take adequate preventive and precautionary measures so that there is no ethnic flare up in the State. Mobile patrolling has been intensified in the areas where there is a mixed population of Adivasis and Non-Adivasis with the instruction to keep watch on the mischief mongers and vested interest groups who may try to exploit the situation. Peace Committees have been activated in all the districts to maintain peace and harmony, and the situation is under control.
The Ministry of Home Affairs has also advised the State Government that appropriate measures be taken so that an environment of peace and normalcy can be restored. The situation is being closely and continuously watched and monitored.
MR. SPEAKER: Yes, I know that you had immediately responded and made a suo motu statement. But I have allowed this Calling Attention in view of the sentiments expressed by all sides on this issue.
Shri Ajoy Chakraborty.
SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : Hon. Speaker, Sir, I convey my thanks and gratitude to you, on behalf of all my colleagues and myself, for allowing us to discuss this important subject.
MR. SPEAKER: Please cooperate.
SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : Sir, the State of Assam is the eldest sister of the seven sisters. Assam has been suffering with a lot of problems including the problem of insurgency. Assam is an old ground of extremists and ultras who disturb the peace and tranquility of the State of Assam.
A new situation has arisen since 24th November 2007. All of us know that thousands and thousands of Adivasis -- most of whom are workers of tea garden and some students also -- have demonstrated in the city of Guwahati for fulfilling their just demands.[r14] In the meanwhile, the situation became turbulent. There was a clash between two groups of people. That incident was later reported in the electronic and print media saying that more than 20 people succumbed to injuries. However, the suo motu statement made by the hon. Minister of Home says that only one person succumbed to injuries. We respectfully differ from this statement of the Minister. Not only that, an unhappy, untoward and shameful incident took place on the streets of the city of Guwahati, one of the important places of our country. An adivasi girl was molested, her modesty was outraged, and she was run after for fear in a naked position.
MR. SPEAKER: Let us not narrate the incidents. It is not good for the country as a whole.
SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : Yes, Sir, it is not good for the country as a whole. Thereafter, the All Assam Adivasi Students union called a 36 hour bandh all over Assam. The situation became turbulent and it turned grave. One person succumbed to injuries and several other were also injured. In Assam there is a difference between two groups of people. We should do our duty cutting across the party lines and help the State Government and the Government of India to maintain peace and tranquility and brotherhood. For the sake of the unity of the country, all of us should act accordingly and save the sovereignty and unity of the country. The hon. Minister in his statement said that only one person succumbed to injuries in the 24th November incident. But there have been reports that more than 20 people succumbed to injuries. What is the actual fact? Was it one person or more than 20 people who succumbed to injuries? Secondly, in view of the demand of the Adivasis to include them as a Scheduled Tribe in the State of Assam, is the Government of India going to issue instructions to the State Government of Assam to include them in the list of Scheduled Tribes? Thirdly, has any high-level officer from the Home Ministry, including the hon. Home Minister or the State Home Minister, rushed to the spot, discussed the situation with the State Government authorities to maintain peace and tranquility in the State of Assam? Has the Government inquired into the matter to find out whether any insurgent group or any vested interest group was behind this incident? I ask the hon. Home Ministry as to whether payment of compensation of one lakh rupees will cover the lost prestige of a woman?
श्री मोहन सिंह (देवरिया): श्री अजय चक्रवर्ती जी, आपकी डिमांड क्या है, वह बताइए?
SHRI AJOY CHAKRABORTY : It is not a question of Rs.1 lakh or Rs.10 lakh. The question is that such a shameful incident has taken place in the country which cannot be covered by any amount of compensation.
MR. SPEAKER: Do not be guided by other hon. Members.
SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY ) : I thank you Sir, for giving me an opportunity to draw the attention of the Hon’ble Home Minister to the volatile situation arising out of violence during and after the demonstration by AAASA on 24th November, 2007 at Beltola in Assam. I would like to inform the House that on 24th November some processionists under the aegis of All Assam Adivasi Students Association indulged in vandalism and violence in Beltola in Guwahati as a result of which in a counter attack they were beaten up and tortured mercilessly. Even a girl was also stripped of her clothes. I condemn this incident which has tarnished the image not only of Assam but also of our country as a whole.
MR. SPEAKER : All these are on record. Please put your clarificatory question.
*SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY : On 28 November, 2008, a Bengali marriage party while travelling from Siliguri to Basugaon in Kokrajhar district was attacked by some Adivasi exremists. The terrorists poured petrol on the bus and set it on fire. The newly married couple was very badly injured in this incident and they were admitted to a hospital at Kokrajhar town. The handyman of the bus Shri Khandan Basumatary was severely injured and is still battling for life in a hospital in Kokrajhar. Sir, I am showing you the photograph of the injured persons. This is a very horrible situation. … (Interruptions)
Yesterday, I visited Beltola in Guwahati where the incident had taken place. The people of the area told me that the Assam Government’s contention that they didn’t know that the All Assam Adivasi Students Association would hold a rally is very surprising. The people told me that……...
MR. SPEAKER: Do not make allegations against the State Government per se.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is the problem of allowing such matters.
… (Interruptions)
* English translation of the speech originally delivered in Assamese.
*SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY : On the 24th November an MLA went to the Headmaster of the South Beltola High School and forced him to grant permission for the rally. But the Headmaster didn’t grant the permission at the initial stage. One ministr’s name was also mentioned in this connection. If an MLA of a ruling party was seeking permission to hold the rally and a Minister was also involved there and if some policemen and a magistrate were present there, how can the Government of Assam say that they didn’t know that a rally was going to be held there? I therefore would like to draw the attention of the Hon’ble Home Minister to take appropriate steps in this regard. Sir, I consider it to be highly deplorable that despite strong opposition from the tribal people of Assam, the Government is trying to accord ST status to six ethnic groups. My appeal to the Government is that until and unless the local tribal people agree with the Government of India and the Assam Government in the matter of according ST status to these communities, no decision should be imposed upon the tribal people of Assam. In the year 2002 when the ST list was revised, at the national level, five new tribes in Assam were also included. But reservation quota for the tribals was not increased proportionately. At the national level also around two hundred new tribes were enlisted as scheduled tribes but their reservation quota still remains the same at 7.5% only.
MR. SPEAKER: This is not Assam Assembly. I will not permit such detailed matters to be raised in the House.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is very unfortunate. Please put your question.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: What is your question? You have to listen to the Chair also.
* English translation of the speech originally delivered in Assamese.
SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY: At present, fourteen Scheduled Tribes are there in Assam.… (Interruptions) Even then, the existing reservation quota for STs is only 10, which should have been enhanced following the increase of the number of Scheduled Tribes. … (Interruptions) Even in the USA, till today, 350 Tribes have not yet been recognized by the Federal Government authorities. In such a situation, any kind of unilateral policy decision with regard to the granting of the Scheduled Tribes status to other groups of people in relation to Assam should not be imposed on the existing original tribal people at the cost of their indigenous rights. .… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kiren Rijiju, put only a question. I have got a number of names. This is not a time to make speeches.
SHRI KIREN RIJIJU (ARUNACHAL WEST): I extend my gratitude for your thoughtful consideration on the issue. The same thing is expected from the Government and the Home Minister has been kind enough to oblige. Though the statement he made on 27th of last month was belated, I welcome it. [r15] The hon. Home Minister has given information about the details of what happened; I do not dispute much on those facts, except this – when the All Adivasi Students Association of Assam had applied to the District Magistrate for holding Gana Samabesh Rally at Beltola, Guwahati on 24th November 2007, permission was not granted. If the permission was not granted to hold a particular rally, how come there were only four police constables and one Assistant Sub-Inspector?
MR. SPEAKER: These are matters of the State Administration. Since certain issues were involved, the hon. Home Minister came here and made a suo motu statement, in view of the feelings expressed across the House. I said that I would turn it into a Calling Attention so that you can put a few questions and seek clarifications. That is the rule.
SHRI KIREN RIJIJU : My question will be related to the Central Government only.
MR. SPEAKER: Please do it. You are very well articulate; I know that. Please do it.
SHRI KIREN RIJIJU : Thank you. When the procession went near the entrance gate of the MLA Hostel, the problem started. My question to the Home Minister is this. Guwahati is a very sensitive area; everyone knew this. It is the Capital of Assam; and it is the Constituency of the hon. Prime Minister. Day before yesterday, the Chief Minister of the State had admitted. … (Interruptions) Yes, the whole of Assam is the Constituency of the Prime Minister. … (Interruptions) I am just responding to them.
MR. SPEAKER: In every matter, politics is not necessary.
SHRI KIREN RIJIJU : The Chief Minister had himself admitted that there had been a lapse on the part of the State Government, what action the Government of India will take? This is a very serious issue. The Chief Minister, on record, admitted the mistake. Now, the State Government, as the Home Minister said, decided to set up a judicial inquiry. I had demanded CBI inquiry before that. That will lead to getting the culprits who are responsible for the incidents on the 24th. But what will be the political action? We have to take moral responsibility somewhere.
Madam Sonia Gandhi is also sitting here. I would like to put a question through you, Sir, to the hon. Home Minister to please discuss with his leadership also on what political action we have to take, because the incident that happened on that day in Guwahati is not merely a law and order situation. It was a deliberate attempt on the part of the State Government.
MR. SPEAKER: No. I would not allow allegations against a State Government. There is nobody to reply them.
SHRI KIREN RIJIJU : This is not an allegation also. The hon. Home Minister said that one person succumbed to the injuries. I challenge that statement of the Home Minister. The AASAA has reported that there were 12 deaths. Where are those 12 dead bodies? Please reply as to the exact number of deaths took place on that day and subsequently. They have published the list also of 40 missing persons. Where are those 40 missing persons? When the list was produced before the State Government and the Press, the hon. Home Minister is totally running away from the fact and reporting just one death. How can he be so far away from the truth?
MR. SPEAKER: No. No more questions. You are misutilizing the opportunity.
SHRI KIREN RIJIJU : My last question is this. It has been published in the newspaper with photographs that during that violence, the photographs of NSUI activists were also published. That shows the involvement of the political groups during the clash. I want the hon. Home Minister to come clean on that.
I want to end my remark with a demand that there must be a CBI inquiry immediately … (Not recorded.) MR. SPEAKER: Sorry; I will not allow this.
(Interruptions)* … MR. SPEAKER: No more. Please cooperate. Shri Sonowal, please put a clarificatory question. [MSOffice16] SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL (DIBRUGARH): First of all, I am thankful to you, on behalf of the people of Assam, for allowing this sensitive matter to be discussed in this august House. As you all know, the incident took place in Beltola, in the heart of the Capital city of Assam on 24th November. I do not want to elaborate the incident in detail …* MR. SPEAKER: It will not be recorded. I request all of you, this is not Assam Assembly. There is nobody on behalf of the Assam Government to reply.
SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL (DIBRUGARH): Sir, I will have to address to the things happening in reality… …* MR. SPEAKER: This is the trouble. We cannot keep ourselves within limits SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL : Sir, it was not my bhashan. It was the bhashan of the hon. Chief Minister of Assam.… (Interruptions)
* Not recorded MR. SPEAKER: You may ask the question as to what you want the Central Government to do in this matter.
SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL : Sir, he had admitted twice that the present Government … * MR.SPEAKER: You are only entitled to ask what the Central Home Minister can reply.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL : Yes, Sir, through you, I am addressing the Central Home Minister. Our submission is, in these circumstances people of Assam are suffering from fear psychosis. …* MR. SPEAKER: Bring it to me. I will go through it.
SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL : In order to restore democracy, to bring back peace and tranquility to the State… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am sorry. This will not go on record.
(Interruptions) …* SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL : The Government of India will have to take strong measures and have to intervene constitutionally because the Government of Assam has miserably failed. In these circumstances, the Government of India cannot keep a mum and sit as a mere spectator.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This will be deleted.
SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL : Assam, being the home State of the hon. Prime Minister of the country… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Different approach cannot be given just because the hon. Prime Minister represents that State.
SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL : This is my humble submission, Sir. I have every right to make my submission.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No. Subject to rules and subject to the Chair’s direction.
* Not recorded SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL : Yes, Sir. I have two specific questions to ask. Under these circumstances what will be the constitutional role of the Government of India to restore peace, democracy and also to bring back peace and tranquility to the State of Assam.
The unanimous decision of the Assam Assembly, about two years back, was to give tribal status to the six communities that those six communities are not expecting that they are going to get the tribal status from the Government of India. On the one hand, the Government of Assam is promising to give those six communities the tribal status without affecting the existing tribals in the State. What would be the role of the Government of India to give tribal status to these six communities, that is, Mottock, Moran, Ahoun, Chutia, Rajbanshi, tea communities including adivasis.
Thirdly, the present situation is very much volatile and very much tense. Let me inform you, last night also an incident took place in which three of the adivasi boys were seriously injured due to the firing of the Assam Police battalion in Tinsukhia district. A few days back a boy named Samanta Gohain at Chabaua was killed due to… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You are expanding the scope of this.
SHRI SARBANANDA SONOWAL : Now, the situation is such that the Central Government will have to intervene and I believe, as the Chief Minister… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Dr.Arun Kumar Sarma.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am sorry. Nothing more will be recorded. You are going much beyond the scope.
(Interruptions) …* * Not recorded MR. SPEAKER: This is not Assam Assembly. I will not permit it.
Dr. Arun Kumar Sarma, please put a clarificatory question...
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA (LAKHIMPUR): Thank you hon. Speaker, Sir, for allowing this debate.
MR. SPEAKER: It is not a debate.
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Calling Attention, Sir.
First of all, I would like to associate with other Members in condemning the incident in which a woman was assaulted. She was insulted in a public place. She had to run without clothes in a public place.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Let us not go into all this.
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : This incident took place …* MR. SPEAKER: If you deliberately bring these matters then I will have to delete all these.[R17] DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Sir, I will put the questions now.
MR. SPEAKER: Yes. Do it. We are discussing in the House of Commons, Parliament of India where there is Central Government. Now the Central Minister has responded. So, you should put questions which he can answer and not the Chief Minister of Assam.
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Sir, as per your advice, I will now put the questions.
MR. SPEAKER: Please do it. You are a very responsible Member.
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Sir, first of all, the hon. Minister has stated about the judicial inquiry declared by the State Government. Another news item in Assam says that subsequently the Assam Government has also declared that it will be inquired by the CBI. I want him to specifically clarify this issue. … * I would like to know whether it is a fact. The Central Government should find out the reality of the situation. …* * Not recorded MR. SPEAKER: Sorry, this is not permitted. You are entitled to ask one clarificatory question on his statement.
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Sir, I want to know from the hon. Home Minister whether the Government will send a Parliamentary Delegation or an all party delegation to see the situation for themselves and report the House in the next Session. That is my suggestion.
Fourthly, the AASAA has alleged that more than 60 people are missing and 20 people are feared to be dead. What is the actual fact about it? It is because the Government has mentioned that only one person died. I also want to know from the Government how it is going to respond to the situation to see that there is no communal divide in Assam? How the Central Government is going to intervene in the matter.
I want to ask one more question about the permanent solution of the issue. There is a demand for the Scheduled Tribe status by six communities which is a long pending demand and the Assam Assembly has recommended this. In this august House also, a Joint Select Committee was formed in 1996. In 1997, the Joint Select Committee had submitted a report with a specific recommendation about six communities, namely, Mottack, Moran, Ahom, Chutia, Rajbongshi and Tea Garden communities.
MR. SPEAKER: You are making the same repetition.
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Sir, I am just mentioning the recommendation of the Joint Committee because it has given a very specific recommendation that without jeopardizing the existing reservation facilities enjoyed by the already notified Tribes, a separate tribal quota should be created for Assam so that this problem can be solved once and for ever.
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing more will be recorded. You are entitled to ask one question but you have already asked ten.
(Interruptions) …* * Not recorded DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Sir, it is an Assam issue.
MR. SPEAKER: Just because it is an Assam issue, shall we not follow the rules?
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Sir, it is a very sensitive issue.
MR. SPEAKER: That is why, I have permitted it. Please do not misuse the opportunity.
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Sir, if you kindly allow, I want to make the last point. I want to know from the hon. Minister whether the Central Government is taking any initiative to bring all the organizational leaders for a dialogue so that a lasting solution can be found out on this issue.
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, all of you are fully aware of the rules but because of the sensitive nature and because a large section of the House was agitated, I have gone out of the rules and out of my way to try to help for the solution of the problem and not to make it more complex. Therefore, it is expected in such sensitive national issues that the Members should take up that approach. As a very special case, not to be treated as a precedent in future, as I had indicated, I am going to call those hon. Members who had taken the trouble of giving notice. Therefore, please cooperate. You are only entitled to ask one clarificatory question each. Please cooperate so that, in future also, if such situations arise, the Chair can cooperate. Otherwise, if there is no cooperation, we have to go strictly by the rules.[R18] श्री हेमलाल मुर्मू (राजमहल): अध्यक्ष महोदय, गुवाहाटी में बालतोला में पिछले माह की 24 तारीख को जो घटना हुई, मैं उसकी गहराई में नहीं जाना चाहूंगा, क्योंकि यह बहुत ही संवेदनशील और लोमहर्षक घटना है। इसकी मैं सीधे तौर पर निंदा करना चाहूंगा। असल मुद्दा यह है कि यह मामला बार-बार असम में क्यों उठता है। मैं इसके मुख्य बिंदुओं की ओर जाना चाहूंगा। उस दिन गृह मंत्री जी के वक्तव्य में भी यह उल्लेख था कि वहां क जो ट्राइबल है, जो टी ट्राइबल या एक्स. टी ट्राइबल है, वे लोग अपनी पहचान खो बैठे हैं। उनकी भाषा, संस्कृति, भूभाग सब उनके पास विद्यमान है, वैसी स्थिति में उन्हें अगर टी ट्राइबल और एक्स टी ट्राइबल जो कह रहे हैं, वह कहना यथोचित नहीं लगता। क्यों न उन्हें असमिया ट्राइबल कहकर अनुसूचित जनजाति सूची में शामिल किया जाए? गृह मंत्री जी ने यह बात उठाई है और आरजीआई का हवाला बार-बार दिया है। आरजीआई समुचित फैसला करने का अधिकारी नहीं है, केन्द्र सरकार है। जब असम सरकार ने 2004 में विधान सभा में रिजोल्यूशन पास कर और 2007 में आरजीआई में कुछ आपत्तियों के बाद समुचित रिपोर्ट और स्मरण पत्र भेजा, तो उस रिपोर्ट के आधार पर आरजीआई ही सब कुछ नहीं होती, केन्द्र सरकार को फैसला करना है। यदि केन्द्र सरकार में इच्छाशक्ति है, अध्यक्ष महोदय: आप प्रश्न पूछें।
श्री हेमलाल मुर्मू : मेरा प्रश्न यह है कि सरकार घोषणा करे कि वह कब तक इसे अनुसूचित जनजाति की सूची में शामिल करने की कार्यवाही करेगी?
SHRI KIRIP CHALIHA (GUWAHATI): Sir, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity.
MR. SPEAKER: You are getting this opportunity because you have given notice for it.
SHRI KIRIP CHALIHA : Sir, this incident occurred in my constituency. I condemn this deplorable incident that had taken place. But since the statement of the hon. Home Minister does not reflect some of the aspects of the incident, I would like to mention a few points. While admittedly there was an attack on the processionists, I would like to know from the hon. Home Minister if it is not a fact that many of the local people had tried to help the processionists and tried to prevent hooliganism and even tried to protect those who were subjected to various kinds of assaults. If only a negative picture of the incident is painted, then the whole idea becomes one sided. The fact is that in Assam the place of women as a whole is exceptionally reverential as compared to many other States. We condemn this incident. But let this incident be taken as a single isolated incident.
Sir, secondly I would like to mention here that instead of going in for blaming one another, it is very important that we should try to reduce the tension that is prevailing there so that this incident does not become a cause for further tension. That should be our combined approach.
Sir, in this connection I would like to submit before this august House that the blame that is being put on the Congress party by some of the Members from the Opposition are totally unfounded. I would like to know if it is not a fact that the …* Government in Assam in 1999 had opposed giving the Scheduled Tribe status to this group. Again, in 2003 the then …* Government did not accord the Scheduled Tribe status to this Group… (Interruptions) Therefore, there should not be any politicization of this issue. It is an extremely sensitive issue… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Member, you made allegations against them. In spite of my requests you made continued allegations and now you are not willing to hear them.
This is not fair.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI KIRIP CHALIHA : Sir, I have not brought any allegations. We must have a healing touch. We must see that the pluralistic character of the Assamese society remains in tact and this incident should be treated as an isolated single incident.
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will be recorded. All those interruptions are not to be recorded.
(Interruptions) …* श्री रामजीलाल सुमन (फ़िरोज़ाबाद) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, असम में आदिवासी स्टूडेंट एसोसिएशन की तरफ से कार्यक्रम था उसकी राज्य सरकार को पहले से जानकारी थी। इस दुखःद घटना को रोका जा सकता था, इसलिए इसकी जितनी भर्त्सना की जाए, कम है।
अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं माननीय गृह मंत्री जी से निवेदन करना चाहूंगा कि 24 नवम्बर की घटना के बाद जो गृह मंत्री जी ने सदन में बयान दिया कि घायल हुए 10 व्यक्तियों को छोड़कर शेष सभी व्यक्तियों को दिनांक 26.11, 2007 के पूर्वांह में छुट्टी दे दी जाएगी। मेरा कहना है कि हास्पिटल में क्या स्थिति है और कितने लोगों को छुट्टी दी गयी, इसके बारे में निश्चित रूप से माननीय गृह मंत्री जी को जानकारी कर लेनी चाहिए। अध्यक्ष जी, मैं एक निवेदन और करना चाहूंगा कि जहां एक ओर यह घटना हुई, वहीं दूसरी तरफ बहुत तेजी से, समाचार पत्रों में, जो हिंदी-भाषी लोग हैं, उनके मारे जाने की असम में घटनाएं छपती हैं। यह बहुत गंभीर मामला है और एक बार नहीं, अनेकों बार आपकी * Not recorded अनुमति से, यह सवाल भी सदन में उठा है। यह देश एक है और लोग अपनी जीविका के लिए, देश के अनेक भागों में जाते हैं। इस प्रकार की घटनाएं निश्चित रूप से चिंतनीय हैं। जहां एक ओर ये घटना हुईं, वहीं लगातार असम में हिंदी-भाषी लोगों के मारे जाने की घटनाएं भी प्रकाश में आती हैं, उन्हें भी राज्य सरकार रोकने की कोशिश करे और भविष्य में ऐसी घटनाओं की पुनरावृत्ति नहीं होनी चाहिए, यही मैं कहना चाहता हूं।
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Prabhunath Singh - not present.
SHRI BAJU BAN RIYAN (TRIPURA EAST) Sir, I condemn the incident that has happened during the procession in Guwahati. The participants who are injured in the procession are being treated in the hospital now. They belong to other States. The communities to which they belong to are being recognised as Scheduled Tribes in other States. Will the people who are injured, admitted in the hospital and who belong to Scheduled Tribes of other States, be recognised as Scheduled Tribes in Assam also? I want to know on this point from the hon. Minister.
डॉ. रामेश्वर उरांव (लोहरदगा) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, बहुत सी बातें माननीय गृह मंत्री जी के बयान से स्पष्ट हो गयी हैं, लेकिन कुझ बातें हैं जो स्पष्ट नहीं हैं, उनके बारे में मैं प्रश्न करना चाहूंगा। कल मैं माननीय मुख्यमंत्री असम का स्टेटमेंट पढ़ रहा था। उन्होंने कहा है कि लोग सीबीआई जांच की मांग कर रहे हैं, तो हम सीबीआई से जांच कराएंगे। लेकिन माननीय गृह मंत्री जी के बयान में यह बात नहीं आई। हम जानना चाहते हैं कि इस कांड की सीबीआई जांच होगी या नहीं?
महोदय, दूसरी बात जो इसमें नहीं आई, वह यह है कि मुख्यमंत्री जी ने स्वयं कहा कि उनसे लोग मिले और कहा कि 30 लोग अभी तक लापता हैं और उनकी खोज की जा रही है। माननीय गृह मंत्री जी के बयान में आना चाहिए था कि वे 30 लोग कौन हैं और उनकी खोज में अभी तक क्या पाया गया है?
वहां के आदिवासियों को आदिवासी तो कहते हैं लेकिन उनको आदिवासी का दर्जा नहीं देते हैं। उनकी मांग है कि उन्हें आदिवासी का दर्जा दिया जाना चाहिए। वे लोग झारखंड, छत्तीसगढ़ और उड़ीसा से गये हैं और उनकी भाषा, कल्चर और परम्परा वही है। भारत सरकार कब तक उनको आदिवासी का दर्जा देगी, यह भी बताएं।
चौथी बात इनके बयान में आई कि जिस लड़की का बलात्कार हुआ, उसका कहना है कि हम पैसा नहीं लेंगे, हमारा सम्मान गया है और वह सम्मान तभी लौटेगा जब हमारी मांग पूरी होगी, हमारी कम्युनिटी को आदिवासी घोषित किया जाए। धन्यवाद।
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Tarit Baran Topdar - not present.[r19] श्री रूपचन्द मुर्मू (झाड़ग्राम) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, 24 तारीख को असम के गुआहाटी की घटना के बाद मैं और आरएसपी के सांसद जोवाकिम बक्सला, 27 तारीख को वहां गए थे। हम दो बड़े अस्पतालों, जीएमसी और एमएमसी, में घायल लोगों को देखने के लिए गए थे। हमें पता चला और अखबारों में आया है कि तीन सौ से अधिक लोग घायल हैं, लेकिन चार सौ से अधिक लोग घायल हुए हैं। जहां पर घटना घटी है, वह सिक्योरिटी जोन कैपिटल कॉम्पलेक्स के नजदीक है। मैं इसके बारे में क्या कहूं, वहां की राज्य सरकार इसके लिए जिम्मेदार है। वहां की पुलिस और सिविल प्रशासन, यह दोनों की फेल्योर है। जिस मांग को लेकर वहां के आदिवासियों ने प्रोसेशन किया था, वह यह है कि उनको एससी स्टेटस दिया जाए, आदिवासी माना जाए। उन्हें आदिवासी कहा जाता है लेकिन अभी तक उन्हें आदिवासी स्टेटस नहीं दिया गया है। ब्रिटिश के जमाने में झाररखंड, बिहार, छत्तीसगढ़, मध्य प्रदेश और पश्चिम बंगाल से आदिवासी लोग वहां गए हैं। मैं भी एक आदिवासी हूँ, हम वहां आदिवासी हैं लेकिन उन लोगों को वहां आदिवासी का दर्जा नहीं दिया गया है। अभी माननीय गृह मंत्री जी ने कहा है कि उनकी पहचान नष्ट हो गई, लेकिन ऐसा नहीं है। वे हम जैसे ही आदिवासी हैं। उनकी भाषा, आर्थिक अवस्था, शैक्षिक और सामाजिक अवस्था हमारे जैसी ही है। मैं सरकार से मांग करता हूं कि उनको एसटी का स्टेटस दिया जाए।
श्री शिबु सोरेन : अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं 24 तारीख के बाद 25 तारीख को ही असम गया था और जो दुर्घटना हुई है, उसे मैंने बहुत अच्छी तरह से देखा, सुना और लोगों से मिला हूं। जो घटना हो चुकी है, उसके लिए मैं और सारे देश के लोग भी दुखी हैं तथा मैं इसकी निंदा करता हूं। मेरा कहना है कि आदिवासी कौन लोग हैं, इसके लिए हर राज्य में ट्राइबल रिसर्च डिपार्टमेंट है। वह डिपार्टमेंट यह खोजबीन करता है कि कौन आदिवासी है और कौन आदिवासी नहीं है। यह बहुत आसान तरीका है। मुझे वहां के चीफ सैक्रेटरी ने एक दस्तावेज दिया था, जिसमें असम सरकार ने कई बार उन लोगों के ट्राइबल होने का रिक्मेंडेशन यहां भेजा है। कुल मिलाकर 102 जातियां दर्ज हैं, जिनको असम सरकार ने आदिवासी घोषित करने के लिए रिक्मेंड करके भेजा है और आरजीआई से पूछा है कि जो भी खामियां हैं, वे हमें बताएं, उन्हें हम जरूर पूरा करेंगे। ऐसा लगता है कि कहीं न कहीं दूरी है, जिसकी वजह से यह काम पूरा नहीं हो पा रहा है। गृह मंत्री जी का उत्तर आया है कि वहां की सरकार ने एक लाख रुपया इस चीर हरण कांड का पुरस्कार हो, मुआवजा हो, कुछ भी हो दिया है।...( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : किसी ने भी पुरस्कार नहीं कहा है।
श्री शिबु सोरेन : महोदय, यह सैंटिमेंटल है। मैं कहता हूं कि कोई सामान दे दे और आदिवासी बना दे। आदिवासी बना क्या दें, वे स्वयं आदिवासी हैं। इसकी रिसर्च करके उनको एसटी का स्टेटस दे दें। यह कब तक होगा, यह हम जानना चाहेंगे।
अध्यक्ष महोदय : श्री जोवाकिम बखला - उपस्थित नहीं।
श्री राजीव रंजन सिंह 'ललन' - उपस्थित नहीं।
श्री नारायण चन्द्र बरकटकी SHRI NARAYAN CHANDRA BORKATAKY (MANGALDOI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you.
While associating with what my colleagues from Assam have said, I urge the House to pass a Resolution condemning this incident in Assam.[MSOffice20] Actually, I am not in good health. Even then, I am coming to speak a few words.
MR. SPEAKER: You can sit down if you are not in good health.
SHRI NARAYAN CHANDRA BORKATAKY : Considering the gravity of the situation, the Speaker has ruled us not to say anything about Assam Government.
MR. SPEAKER: Not critical because there is nobody to reply on their behalf. This is a well established system.
SHRI NARAYAN CHANDRA BORKATAKY : But, through reference, I am telling you that Beltola is around 3 kilometres away from the State capital and 2 kilometres away from my residence. The area is actually a business area now-a-days. The road is full of shops and establishments. So, whether the rally was permitted or not is a different thing, but there was enough information that the rally coming up. Only one magistrate and 12 constables were not enough. They should have been more alert to such a situation. I want to know from the hon. Home Minister whether the Central Government had got any intelligence information regarding the whole incident. Secondly, there was a contradiction from the State Government and the Central government regarding giving the status of Scheduled Tribes to 6 communities and particularly adivasis and tribes people of Assam. So, the Central Government should come up very clear about the latest considerate decision in view of the State Assembly’s recommendation so that such incidents can never happen.
Assamese people are actually very peace-loving people. All communities with different languages, castes, religions were living in harmony. Of late, it has receded. This harmony is not observed at all. Every day, there is an incident. Even today morning, there was an incident in Sibsagar where police had to resort to firing.
MR. SPEAKER: Kindly put your question.
SHRI NARAYAN CHANDRA BORKATAKY : I would like to know whether the Government is contemplating to restore peace and harmony in Assam or thinking of sending an All-Party Parliamentary team. I would like to urge upon the Home Minister, through you, that immediate restoration of peace is very important. Some such incidents here and there are going on. Two days back, it happened in Sonitpur district. Today it is Sibsagar district. As my colleague was just telling, it happened in Tinsukia district. So, these things have to be stopped once and for all and a Peace Committee should be formed, if required, involving all parties. The Government of India should take initiative and the Government of India cannot be a silent spectator here.
Thirdly, is a CBI inquiry actually going to be initiated?
MR. SPEAKER: It has been asked.
SHRI NARAYAN CHANDRA BORKATAKY : If it has been asked, I am only questioning it because Chief Minister has told that he also wants an enquiry. At the same time, he is telling that a judicial enquiry is also necessary. I think a CBI inquiry is very important. I do not have any disregard for the judicial inquiry, but CBI inquiry is more important because they can find out the culprits. It is very important. So, these are my three questions.
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Lalit Mohan Suklabaidya. Only clarificatory questions.
SHRI LALIT MOHAN SUKLABAIDYA (KARIMGANJ): Sir, first I agree with all of my Opposition friends in condemning the incident. As my friends from the Opposition were saying, this incident happened due to lapse on the part of Government. But, once the incident occurred, immediately the Government sent their force. Once it was confirmed, the curfew was imposed. [MSOffice21] 1 [R22] 3.00 hrs. After that, a judicial inquiry was ordered. The point is, our Chief Minister took all actions to pacify the situation and the situation is coming back to normal step by step. In this scenario, one of my Opposition friends from the BJP wanted the resignation of the Chief Minister. I do not know how he is saying all these things. May I ask one question? … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Don’t ask him. You ask the hon. Minister.
SHRI LALIT MOHAN SUKLABAIDYA (KARIMGANJ): I am asking the hon. Minister. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Don’t record anything.
(Interruptions) …* SHRI LALIT MOHAN SUKLABAIDYA (KARIMGANJ): Sir, in 1996, 198 people were killed in a clash between Adivasis and Non-Adivasis in Kokrajhar. I would like to know whether the then Chief Minister resigned at that time. … (Interruptions) I would also like to know whether ST status was proposed to be * Not recorded given to these six communities by the Congress Chief Minister in 1993. In 2002, the NDA Government declared 142 communities as Scheduled Tribes, but these six communities were not included. At that time, the AGP ally was in power and in the Centre, the NDA was in power, but they did not include these communities. … (Interruptions)
DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : Th question is whether this Government is going to do or not. … (Interruptions)
SHRI ANWAR HUSSAIN (DHUBRI): Yes, this Government is doing. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I will call you Mr. Hussain. Please don’t bother.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Rijuju, you are very much excited today. I have given you the fullest opportunity. Please give similar courtesy to other Members also.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Suklabaidya, please put your question.
SHRI LALIT MOHAN SUKLABAIDYA : Sir, now our Chief Minister has already approached the Government of India and to the best of my knowledge, the Government of India is contemplating to think over the matter carefully once again. If they are given the ST status, then all their aspirations will be fulfilled and peace will be restored once and for all.
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Fuggan Singh Kulaste - Not present SHRI ANWAR HUSSAIN : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I will confine myself to just one question and that is regarding reservation. The adivasi people have been agitating for the last 20 years and AASAA and the student organisation, is agitating for 10 years. The Congress Government and the Indian National Congress have been trying hard to give ST status to these six communities namely, Adivasi, Koch Rajbongshi, Tai-Ahom, Moran, Matak and Chuthia.
Now, in the Statement of the hon. Home Minister, in paragraph 2 on page 2, he has mentioned that the then Government of Assam also initially consistently opposed giving them ST status. I want a clarification regarding this statement…* DR. ARUN KUMAR SARMA : This is wrong. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I will delete that.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI ANWAR HUSSAIN : This is Home Minister’s statement. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You mentioned about the then Government.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Dr. Sarma, I have said that it will be deleted. I will say that no name will be included.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is the danger of bringing the State matters into the House of People. I have been repeatedly suggesting that. I generally do not agree, but since all sections of the House were so agitated, I felt let there be some opportunity and I must thank the hon. Home Minister that immediately he responded earlier also and today also, although this type of Calling Attention has never been held to my knowledge of 38 years in this House. I am trying to accommodate everybody. Those who have given notices, I am committed to it. But please cooperate. If you call it an important issue, it should be discussed in an important manner, and in a responsible manner.
SHRI ANWAR HUSSAIN : Sir, I have every right to have a clarification on what the hon. Minister has stated here in his statement… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Here the Opposition is for the sake of Opposition only.
* Not recorded SHRI ANWAR HUSSAIN : Sir, my question is whether it is true that in 1997 the then Government refused to give the ST status to Kochi Rajbongshi tribe and whether it is also a fact that the then Government of 1999 refused to give ST status to the adivasi people of that area.
In 2003, almost 142 communities were granted ST status. I would like to know from the hon. Home Minister why Adivasi, Koch Rajbongshi, Tai-Ahom, Moran, Matak, and Chutia were not given that status in 2003.
Lastly, in 1996, 198 adivasi people were killed. At that time the same Government was there in Assam and the same Government was there at the Centre. Now, this time only one person was killed. In the previous case when so many people were killed, no resignation was demanded then why this time resignation is being demanded. I would like to know this from the hon. Home Minister.
MR. SPEAKER: Now, 14 hon. Members have participated, five hon. Members have been absent. Now, I call the hon. Minister.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, this is not a debate.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, you have not given notice.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Today’s notice is meaningless. Even not before the start of the Session.
… (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMATION AND BROADCASTING (SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI): Sir, before the hon. Minister replies, my prayer to you and to the House is that there is one legislation listed today in the name of the hon. Petroleum Minister and in the Agenda Paper at 2 o’clock, there is a debate on Judiciary and Legislature Harmony. My appeal to you, subject to the approval of the House, is that a very important legislation, which has been passed by Rajya Sabha, is there and if you kindly suspend the Lunch Hour, we can go ahead with the debate after the legislative business and that we can dispose it off today. This is my appeal to you and we shall abide by your decision.
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): We agree with that. Sir, you allow both of us.
MR. SPEAKER: This conditional agreement does not matter.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I have received another 6-7 notices.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, sorry. Hon. Minister, please.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, I will be very brief… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Whatever you may say, I will not allow.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Fourteen hon. Members from all sides have participated.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, I will not allow.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, I will take only one minute… (Interruptions)
SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): Sir, I will take only half-a-minute… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am sorry, in spite of the hon. Minister’s request, I will adjourn the House and go away.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, I will not allow.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, today’s notice will not do. Some principle, some rule, some procedure has to be followed. I have gone completely out of my way to allow those who have given notices on that day.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, sorry.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY : Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Minister… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, sorry, Mr. Tripathy, you know the rules very well.
[r23] … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Do not write. Only hon. Minister's statement will be recorded.
(Interruptions) … * MR. SPEAKER: Shri Athawale, please take your seat. This is not a free for all.
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL): Sir, the entire House has condemned the incident and what had happened to the girl over there. We would also like to say that what happened in Assam that day is condemnable and it should never happen to any person anywhere in the country.
I would like to submit that the information which I have given and which I am going to give is the information received by us from the State Government. It is on the basis of the information provided to us, we are giving this information to this House.
A question was asked how many people succumbed to the injuries. One hon. Member said 20 members succumbed to the injuries; another hon. Member said 18 members succumbed to the injuries. The information which we have received from the State Government indicates that such allegations were made, but when inquiries were done, it was found that that number was not correct and that number came down to a very small number. So, the information as to the number of persons having been killed in that incident given by the hon. Member does not appear to be correct. But, I am giving this information on the basis of the information which is given to me. The information which is authentically communicated to us is that only two members have died in that incident.
* Not recorded The second question which was asked related to the inquiry by CBI.
MR. SPEAKER: The House has agreed that there will be no luncheon recess today.
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: The procedure which is followed in ordering the inquiry by CBI is this. If the State Government writes to the Union Government asking that the inquiry should be done by CBI, or if a court says that the inquiry should be done by CBI, the CBI inquiry is ordered. Otherwise, only the cases which relate to the Union Government are inquired into by CBI. If any such request is made by the State Government, we generally do not refuse to accept that request and look into the matter. But one fact which should be borne in mind by all the hon. Members over here is this. We are asking many cases to be referred to CBI. CBI is getting over-burdened and, and the manpower available with CBI is also limited. The result is that if a matter is referred to CBI, a very long time is taken to investigate into the matter, and the results are not easily available. That should be borne in mind by all the hon. Members.
Another question was asked relating to the involvement of the terrorist organizations in that area. I would like to submit that the information which is available indicates that some terrorist organizations are trying to find out the issues on which the agitation can be started by the people. They are trying to find out the areas where the agitations can be started. When an occasion comes, they make use of these issues and these areas and start the agitation. In this case, Assam is an area where there are some issues which are faced by the State Government, the Union Government, and by all of us. We would not be surprised if the terrorist organizations working in that area are trying to make use of this situation to create problem for the people over there, for the State Government over there and for all of us here.[r24] Sir, the fourth question which was asked related to the fact whether the Government of India would like to include these tribes into the List of Scheduled Tribes or not. … (Interruptions)
SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY : This is the most important one.
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Sir, I would like to say that we shall have to understand that the Home Ministry will be replying to the issues relating to law and order, and as to the inclusion of the tribes in the List is concerned, it is the Tribal Ministry which looks into it. … (Interruptions)
SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY : Sir, you see what the Home Minister is replying. He is speaking on behalf of the Government. He says that the other Ministry will reply. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except the Home Minister’s reply.
(Interruptions) …* SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Let me complete my reply. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am also learning a lesson the fag end of my life not to trust anybody. Please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Let me complete, and if you are dissatisfied with my reply, then you can ask permission from the Chair and ask the question, and after that I will reply to it. Before I complete my sentence, you get up and you are trying to just disturb the House also.
I was trying to say as to what is done by which Ministry. I was trying to explain the procedure which is followed in this respect. The procedure followed is that the State Government makes a recommendation to the Union Government to include a particular tribe in the List of Scheduled Tribes. On the recommendation of the State Government, the matter is referred to RGI, that is, the Registrar General of India, and the Registrar General of India finds out as to the number of people belonging to that tribe and then says whether enough number of people are there or not. Then, the matter goes to the Scheduled Tribes Commission, and the Scheduled Tribes Commission applies its mind to this issue to find out whether * Not recorded that tribe should be included in the List or not. Later on, the matter goes to the Tribal Ministry, and the Tribal Ministry moves a paper to the Cabinet and the Cabinet decides whether it has to be done or not. What is wrong if I am explaining this thing to you? … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Noting will go on record.
(Interruptions) …* MR. SPEAKER: Shri Tripathy, suddenly you are getting agitated. That is his statement. You cannot intervene in this manner.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Not one word of Shri Tripathy will go on record.
(Interruptions) …* SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: This will lead nowhere. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is very unfair.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: This will lead nowhere. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You need not respond to him.
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Sir, what I was trying to say is that there was a Committee, Lokur Committee, appointed, and the Lokur Committee laid down the procedure which have to be examined to include a particular tribe in the List of Scheduled Tribes. The criteria given by the Lokur Committee are: whether primitive traits are geographically isolated or not; their shyness, if they are shy or not; and their economic condition. These are the criteria which have to be applied to the Tribes, to find out whether they can be included in the List or not. Now, this is the Report given by the Lokur Committee, and that kind of criteria is applied.[h25] * Not recorded Sir, I am sorry to say that the State Government in Assam has been giving different kinds of reports. In 1978, they said, do not include it. In 1999, they have said, do not include it. I have a letter. This is a copy that is with me. If you include it,… (Interruptions)
Please do not disturb me.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Sir, this is in 1999.
MR. SPEAKER: This is an important matter. The Home Minister of India is replying and you have not got the patience to hear him.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will be recorded.
(Interruptions) …* SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: It says that if the tea tribes are included, … (Interruptions)
SHRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Can I say, Sir?
MR. SPEAKER: Unless he yields, I cannot compel him.
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I am not yielding. He can ask a question if he wants. But he cannot disturb. He should not be allowed to disturb me like this.
MR. SPEAKER: All right. If you are not yielding, I am not asking him to intervene.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: I will write down the name.
This letter says that if these tribes are included in the List, the tribes living in that area will suffer and so do not include. This is what they have said. Now, you are saying that this has happened, that had happened and the other thing had happened. So, the recommendations given by the State Government are not consistent. Then the recommendations came here. They have said in the recommendation also though these criteria are not fulfilled, yet they should be * Not recorded included in the list. Now, this is what they have said. So, in view of these facts, the present Government in Assam and we hear and all of us sitting here and the people in the country, have to take a decision as to how to handle this decision. The present Government is asking us, please try to help them. In what fashion you can help them, let us sit together and decide. That is the stand the Government of India is also taking with respect to the tribes, the people belonging to the tribes coming from Assam, the people belonging to any tribes coming from any country, because the tribal people are the people who are economically the most backward. They should be helped the most by the country as a whole. That is the kind of attitude we are adopting. If this is the problem, if this is the situation and if the State Government is trying to help and if the Union Government is trying to help, then we shall have to understand that.
You are all responsible Members of this august House. You advise us as to what is to be done. Supposing we include and if the people who are already there in the List are objecting to it, then there will be a problem. One of the hon. Members got up and said, I object to it. There are so many other organizations. So, this is a problem which has to be dealt with and we, as responsible persons, have to take a balanced act and we have to help really those people. They are the people who need the help the most in the country as a whole.
If we do not help them, we would be committing the mistake. Our intention is to help them. But as to how it can be helped, we shall have to find out. We have to find out in what fashion it has to be done. They have suggested, even the Government has suggested that ‘look, do not affect the interests of the people who are already in the List and yet you include these people. The number of tribes, which is given to us, is not only four but it is 97. I have the number. It is 97. That is the number with me. If you have to include 97 tribes in the List, it is going to create some problem and we shall have to solve this problem and we would like to solve this problem.
We would like to consult you. We would like to consult the State Government which is, very, very considerate to the people over there. We would like to take a stand for all the tribal people in the country to help them. This is our attitude. This is our policy.
This policy will be decided by the Cabinet and not by the Home Ministry and the Tribal Ministry. But we will decide it in the Cabinet. I am not saying ‘yes’ or ‘no’. But you should understand that the matter has to go from one Ministry to the Cabinet and from one Ministry to the Parliament. We are not allowed to come here and speak for the Tribal Ministry. I can speak only for the Home Ministry and not for the Tribal Ministry. It is the problem.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, I am sorry. Nothing will be recorded.
(Interruptions) …* MR. SPEAKER: He has not yielded. I cannot compel. All of you please sit down.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down. Please take your seats.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, then I will close this discussion. I will close this discussion if this is happening.[m26] … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Minister, you address the Chair.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI KIREN RIJIJU: The Minister’s reply is not satisfactory. He has denied a CBI inquiry. He has not made any promise … (Interruptions)
SHRI ANANTH KUMAR: We are walking out in protest of hon. Home Minister’s reply which is unsatisfactory. … (Interruptions)
* Not recorded MR. SPEAKER: This is not right. What you do is up to you. The Minister has not even finished his reply. Mr. Minister, please continue. Nothing will be recorded except the walk out.
(Interruptions) …* 13.26 hrs. (At this stage, Shri Ananth Kumar, Shri Kiren Rijiju, Shri Braja Kishore Tripathy, Shri Prabhunath Singh and some other hon. Members left the House.) … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will be recorded except the hon. Home Minister.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: Sir, this is very unfortunate.
MR. SPEAKER: I think so. In future I will have to consider it very seriously.
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: This is such a complicated and important issue and yet the hon. Members are not willing to share their wisdom with us in order to solve this problem. They are just taking a political stand and walking out by making false statements. The hon. Member says that I have denied a CBI inquiry which I have not done.
MR. SPEAKER: That is an incorrect statement.
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL: If they make a false statement on the floor of the House itself, what they might be saying outside, one can understand.
Sir, the problem is complicated but it has to be solved by the country. The Government of India, the State Government, our Party leaders and ourselves will apply our mind to see that the problem of the tribals in Assam as well as in other States is solved in such a fashion that the best help can be given to them to see that they improve their economic and social conditions. This is what I have to submit.
* Not recorded MR. SPEAKER: Matters under Rule 377 shall be taken up after Item No.23, if there is time left. Matters of Urgent Public Importance shall be taken up after the end of the scheduled business.
Item No. 23. Hon. Minister Shri Murli Deora.
13.28 hrs.