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Lok Sabha Debates

Discussion On The Demands For Supplementary Grants (General) For The Year ... on 19 December, 2000

16.04 hrs. Title: Discussion on the Demands for Supplementary Grants (General) for the year 2000-2001 and Taxation Laws (Amendment) Bill, 2000. (Concluded).

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, now the House shall take up Supplementary Demands for Grants and Taxation Laws Bill together.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI YASHWANT SINHA): Sir, I beg to move:

"That the Bill further to amend the Finance Act, 2000 and the Income Tax Act, 1961, be taken into consideration. "

 MR. CHAIRMAN : Motions Moved:

"That the respective sums not exceeding the amounts on the Revenue Account and Capital Account shown in the third column of the Order Paper be granted to the President out of the Consolidated Fund of India, of certain further sums necessary to defray the charges that will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st day of March, 2001, in respect of the heads of Demands entered in the second column thereof against Demands No. 1, 5, 8, 12, 13, 28, 30, 33, 39, 40, 41, 47, 48, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 69, 75, 77, 81, 84, 85, 87 and 88. "

"That the Bill further to amend the Finance Act, 2000 and the Income Tax Act, 1961, be taken into consideration. "

   

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (RAIGANJ): Sir, I rise to participate in this routine manner of debate on Supplementary Demands for Grants which every Finance Minister, irrespective of party considerations, bring before the House for the required support to meet the exigencies out of the estimated Budget that exceeds the limits and leads to more deficit.

I am sorry to say this. Without any personal acrimony against the Finance Minister, I would say that his Government lacks vision to see the present day reality in this country. His Government does not have any understanding of the field realities, the plight of the workers and the plight of the farmers.

I am sorry to say to the hon. Minister that this Government has totally lost the confidence of the working class, farmers and especially the small scale sector of this country. I will not touch the point as to how this Government has very cruelly – I would like to use the word `cruelly’ – compromised the support given to the anti-poverty programmes in the poverty alleviation schemes by slashing down its targets and its own estimates of 1999-2000 which we have already dealt with in the last Budget discussion. We hoped that this Government would revise the concept and will put more money in this programme. But our hopes were belittled. This Government acted in haste; acted without clarity; acted without vision; and acted without understanding the ground realities and imposed an uncalled for burden on the people of India, especially on those who are below the poverty line, working class and kisans.

In the last few days, cutting across party lines, every Member of this House raised the issue of farmers on three counts. First was, the price is not sufficient enough to justify the cost of production as subsidy has been withdrawn; secondly, the storage and other facilities provided to them are not adequate; and thirdly, the procurement drive in the distress sale under MSP is not taking off in many parts of Bihar and Andhra Pradesh. The Government’s response to that matter was totally discouraging and negative till now. Of course, to maintain the balance of the Government and to get the support of the TDP, the Government did respond to the issues of TDP without understanding the totality of the cry of the farmers of Bihar, Haryana, Punjab and Uttar Pradesh.

I would not like to question the performance of the Government in my words because Finance Minister will say that Congress is habitual of attacking the BJP Government. I will take the liberty of quoting the BJP ideologue, Shri Jay Dubashi as to how the present Government is functioning. He says:

and "I thought the day would never come when I would have to criticise the policies of my own party. But these are strange times we have to do what we have to do.The economy has not been doing too well has been clear for some time. But the Government refuses to concede…. "

That means Shri Yashwant Sinha refuses to concede. The Finance Minister very courageously told in this House, in a stormy situation, that he stands by the old target. He further says:

"The facts tell a different story. The GDP growth this year will be closer to five than seven per cent, and according to a reputable instiute of academics may even sink to four per cent.

Industry is down to six per cent and inflation up to seven per cent. The stock market has carshed by 2600 points or 40 per cent in eight months. The rupee is still tumbling. And at least one international rating agency has downgraded its rating for India.

The question is not, as the Finance Minister says, of a few decimal points this way or that, so that they can be manipulated into position in due course.

The fact is that the slowdown is not a temporary phase. The economy has been going down the tube for the last four years and is now virtually in a state of collapse."

 

 This is not my statement. He is your own ideologue. He further says:

"Manufacturing industry, the backbone of our modern sector, has been on the skids since 1995-96, when it achieved a growth of 14 per cent. Last year, it was around six per cent. This is not slow down, it is slow death."

   

"..Unless we recognise it for what it is, we shall never be able to deal with it."Finally, he says – "The situation is disastrous. We are probably losing one per cent of GDP or Rs.20,000 crore every year because of globalisation. It is a pity that the Government is not even prepared to concede that there is a problem."Shri Jai Dubashi, who is the economist and ideologue of BJP, in his signed interview, said – "Is the Finance Minister painting an overly optimistic picture of the economy?"

The answer is – "Yes. The economy is in a state of collapse."

 

 The BJP Ideologue concedes it. This is where the country is landed. I am not getting inspiration to score political points just because the BJP leader has said it. I am talking the reality. What had happened? We all know in 1962 China invaded India. I was a student leader at that time. I understand as to what had happened at that time. But the Chinese invasion in recent times in Indian market had been so acute in spite of the presence of this Government. I can tell you if you feel it. The items which the Indian industry is making, namely, pressure cooker, fans, screwdrivers, small machine tools are now being dumped in the Indian market from China for less than half the price. Not one, but four lakh small scale units around Delhi, Haryana, Uttar Pradesh, Maharashtra, Karnataka and Gujarat have closed down and no estimate has yet been made as to what is the plight of these workers. This is happening at the nose of Delhi. Mr. Finance Minister, you can go and find out as to what is happening. Industries producing pressure cookers, fans, small machine tools, sewing machines are on the verge of collapse. Finance Minister’s entire plan of growth had come down. Not only it had come down, it is sinking.

Can I quote from your earlier speech while replying to the Budget? Where do you stand now, Mr. Finance Minister? You said that – "I have taken care of."What care you have taken?

"No threat of other kinds of things. I wanted to be honest. Despite the fact that the final Report of the Eleventh Finance Commission is still awaited, I have included this figure of Rs.11,000 crore in my Budget estimate. Where is this Rs.11,000 crore going? All of it is going to the States. Every State is going to benefit from this money, which will go as grants."

 So, when you look at the fiscal deficit, Rs.11,000 crore is exactly 0.5 per cent of the fiscal deficit. This 0.5 per cent of the fiscal deficit has been added to the Government’s next year’s Budget. But to that extent, as far as the national fiscal deficit is concerned, 0.5 per cent would be less. This is the case as far as State fiscal deficit is concerned.

Sir, that part of 0.5 per cent would be less as far as States fiscal deficit is concerned, according to the Finance Minister. But if you add this, what is the figure we arrive at? It is Rs.35,000 crore, which is just add one more item of expenditure to this and that is, interest payment of Rs.10,000 crore and Rs.45,000 crore of expenditure increase in this year’s Budget is accounted for these items alone.

Where do you stand in this matter today? The entire thing got collapsed and collapsed because the Finance Minister did not anticipate at all as to what is coming because of your reckless policy approach, your casual approach of imposing duty on the imported items from time to time. It put you in another disaster.

Your NPA realisation is a disaster. You could not realise the Non-Performing Assets which you promised you would in the last one year with drastic measures, etc. What did you realise?

The industrial growth from April to September, 2000 is only 5.5 per cent as against the estimated growth of over eight per cent.

It is not just a story. It is a disaster. So, the Government has to do some very serious thinking over this. The inflation rate for the week ended on 4th November, 2000 was 7.30 per cent as against 3.20 per cent during the corresponding time in 1999. What happened during this period of one year? In 1999, the Finance Minister claimed that they had no positive mandate and they had to somehow manage it. He also claimed that the gate of economic reforms was not fully opened and in this year’s Budget, he claimed that everything is clear and he is very confident of achieving the target. But the inflation rate has increased to 7.30 per cent as compared to 3.20 per cent during the corresponding period in 1999 and it stands at 7.45 per cent now.

The Foreign Direct Investment upto September, 2000 was only US $2.16 billion. If this is the rate of investment that comes to the coffer, how can he assure growth even in the field of investment? In this context, I would like to give an example of a foreign company and how the Government is dealing with it. Suddenly, on a fine morning, throughout India everybody finds a new hoarding in every important city about a company called LAFARGE. It is a cement company from France. I admire their marketing skills. Within 15 days, we find publicity hoardings in every district town of India. But what did LAFARGE do? They tried to rescue two or three sick units and brought down the price of cement, thereby compelling other units also to bring it down. Did LAFARGE bring any money into India while buying those units and while trying to expand? The Finance Minister has to answer this question. On the other hand, LAFARGE asked for our money from PFI to invest here, which is not the case in China. In China, the foreign investors have been categorically told that they cannot raise money from their Stock Exchanges and they have to bring the money. So, the amount they brought into China is really substantial whereas, in our case the position is totally different.

Sir, I am sorry to say that Mumbai Stock Exchange is one of the greatest casinos in India now. It is controlled by a few FIIs at the cost of small investors. The casino opens in the morning and decides the destiny of millions of small investors within a few hours and that is done only by a handful of people in a closed circuit. But the Government is a mute witness to it. I can give a number of such examples, but there is not enough time. During the last one year alone, the small investors have lost over Rs.1,50,000 crore on account of very high speculative activities in our Stock Market and 50 per cent of this loss has gone to a handful of FIIs in the form of profit. Most of these FIIs have taken the Mauritius route and as such they get significant tax benefits also.

The policies of the Government are tailor-made to benefit only foreigners and big business houses. The Stock Exchanges in India have become major casinos for foreign players. There was sudden buoyancy in the Stock Market without any fundamentals, but it was purely on account of calculated statements made out of context by the Ministers so as to benefit a particular class and it had raised many questions with regard to the Government’s involvement in the artificial bullish and bearish trends in the Stock Market.

Sir, just before the last year’s General Elections, there was no reason to suggest a sudden rise of about 1800 points in the Sensitive Index. There was an overall political uncertainty, the Kargil War was going on and the economy had not registered any significant growth. We all appreciate that situation. It was a war of the people against the invaders and we are grateful to our jawans who defended our territory. But the Prime Minister’s out of context statement that the provident fund will be allowed to be invested in the Stock Market made the market bullish. Now there is no move to invest the provident fund in the Stock Market. So, the suddent bullish craze in the Stock Market just before the last year’s General Elections and its subsequent fall needs a thorough probe. In spite of artificial bullish trends in the Stock Market, the investors have lost all faith in the Stock Market now. This is what had happened.

They have lost the faith. Therefore, things are not coming up. Why will the industrial growth not go down? If India""s own indigenous entrepreneurs feel, they can do it.

I give an example of a Kolkata Company. Shri Sudeep Bandyopadhyay is here, he knows the company. It is Khaitan Fan Company. We used to see Khaitan Fan. He closed everything. He took a flat in China. From there he is assembling everything and putting the stamp ""Khaitan Fan made in China"". He is manufacturing at half than the price that he used to manufacture here and is dumping in the Indian market. It is like any other unit. One unit after another unit are going like this.

What does the hon. Minister do? He does not create employment because he lacks vision. He cannot protect the employment because he has no policy. He cannot encourage the investor because he is in the trap of FIIs. He cannot generate the growth because he has already crashed the bottom level economy. That is why his ideologue said very correctly, ""It is not leg is down, it is a collapse"". And we are at a collapse stage. I am afraid, we should not face the fate of South Korea or Mexico.

I have a strong feeling and faith in our workers. In every State, you go, working class is on the streets; farmers are in tears; and only Shri Yashwant Sinha has the usual established smile and this smile, I always wish, should be a live smile and not a still photograph. This is why we are witnessing this situation in the country.

Sir, the Government is not determined to tap the defaulters. There are hundred noted defaulters of the Central Excise and Income Tax. If he had caught 25 per cent of them, his supplementary demands would have been reduced to a substantial extent. Did he touch them? The Government would not be required to present the supplementary demands to this extent if hundred defaulters of Central Excise and Income Tax would have been caught.

Sir, I give you another classic example and the whole House will understand what I want to say. One of our important resource generation of the excise duty is from an item which you all oppose, at least, I am opposed to smoking. I feel everybody should stop smoking. The whole world is building a campaign against smoking. Yet you will ask what the growers will grow in Andhra Pradesh. You will ask where the workers of cigarette industry would go. Why? So, long as you cannot phase out by a systematic campaign of environment, impose more duty.

Now, I tell you the game here. ""The present excise structure related to the length of the cigarette."" The hon. Minister keeps smiling. He understands what I mean. ""The Managing Director of a company, smoking 84 mm cigarette costing Rs. 2.40, let us say a length related specific duty of 0.80 paise. Then he has paid 33 per cent duty to the Exchequer. While, his driver smoking 84 mm cigarette costing Rs.1.20 would also pay a length related specific duty of 0.80 paise or 66 per cent duty. But if there would be a combination of specific, as well as higher rate of advalorum duty on costlier brand and a lower advalorum duty on a cheaper brand, then the driver could not end up paying double the excise duty as compared to his Managing Director.""

Sir, this is the advantage which is being exploited by a big house in this country, I do not like to take his name, who has been caught in the excise trap many a time and yet the Government is allowing them to play fraud on the nation and he is not taking any objective merits on this case. Why should they be let out like this?

Sir, excise duty structure on cigarettes is highly anomalous. ""The excise duty rates of the length of cigarette is not only loaded in favour of the smokers of costly brand as compared to the smokers of the cheaper brand.""

Between the two Union Budgets, most of the cigarette companies introduced two or three price increases. The increased prices do not bring increased revenue to the Government. Mr. Finance Minister, can you deny that? I know what I am talking. In my private capacity as sports organiser, I will lose much because they will withdraw from my sponsorship. But as a citizen of the country and a patriotic citizen of the country, I must expose them. They are looting the nation and cheating the exchequer. They are not paying the duty as you desire. Therefore, you have got to examine this matter and make a comprehensive probe as to why your Ministry will allow this kind of structure. I do not like to take much of the time on the excise matters. I only pointed out cigarette sector.

Now, let me come to the withdrawal of subsidy. At Red Fort, the Prime Minister on 15th August rally made it clear, ‘come what may, the issue of poverty and the issue of the poor people should be given top priority and the topmost consideration.’ In the Nagpur Session of BJP, several delegates said, ‘come what may, we shall not compromise the interest of the poor people. I have gone through their proceedings. All these words are very good. I may be of an Opposition Member to BJP but when I feel similar words are coming, I feel the poor people are protected. From the day of introduction of your Budget till to this date, did you at any point of time try to consider the re-introduction of subsidy, stage by stage, at least on the food items? No. Only on the price hike of petroleum products when Kumari Mamata Banerjee made a big hue and cry and almost tried to get out of you, then to protect your Government, you had to shed your tears two or three times with the handkerchief of Shri Ram Naik. You tried to give something here and there.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, I will conclude. To revive a patient who is in collapse and coma stage, a lot of things are to be done. It is not only injection, but also a kind of massage is required.… (Interruptions) I am not applying only the medicine. Something more is required.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI YASHWANT SINHA): I hope that Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi himself will not collapse.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : I did not collapse. If the Finance Minister only smiles and does something outside in the same pattern of economy, I will also collapse because I am a citizen of India. Therefore, I feel that this Demand for Supplementary Grants is okay. It is a routine one. The Government must spell out clearly their approach on the poor and the anti-poverty programme, the programme that we gave. Have you ever considered the Pradhan Mandri Rozgar Yojana, Jawahar Samrudhi Yojana and the National Scheme for Rural Employment? You keep this on one side. If you take the report of CMMI pertaining to the growth rate, the employment generation opportunities to the poor people are coming down. This is a fact I am telling the Minister. It is not from my source. Mr. Minister, correct me if I am wrong. Till 1997, in the rural development schemes and programmes, 20 out of every 100 in the village used to get a daily wage, daily work or some kind of work throughout the year. From 1999-2000 now, 15 out of 100 in a village is getting that job. So, you have taken away the right of five people. If this trend continues, it will be 12 out of every hundred who will be getting that daily wage job. Therefore, on the one hand, the urban chaos of the working class will begin and on the other hand, the rural chaos will start. Therefore, your ideologue, Jay Dubashi, has said the correct thing. If you do not restore the confidence from now and revise your approach, confidently and consciously, the situation will be economic collapse, economic chaos from which you cannot survive and the nation will not survive. It is not important whether you lose the election or I lose the election. It is important the Government should be brought to the proper track to save the economy of the country and the situation.

1629 hours (Shri P.H. Pandiyan in the Chair) I request the Finance Minister to respond in a positive manner without giving wrong hopes and dreams. We can have good dreams and bad dreams in the night. But in Parliament, we should come out with a reality. I only conclude by saying that the Finance Minister said, ‘Do not try to question the NDA. NDA is a rock." It is a rock. But when Jock and Jill went up to the hill, the rock fell down. Please do not do something so that the rock does fall down and therefore, there will be another collapse. With these words, I conclude.

   

श्री किरीट सोमैया (मुम्बई उत्तरपूर्व):सभापति महोदय, सबसे पहले मैं प्रियरंजन दासमुंशी जी को बधाई देना चाहता हूं कि वह अभी दो-चार दिन पहले फुटबाल एसोसिएशन के पुन: एक बार अध्यक्ष चुने गए। मैं हाउस की तरफ से आपको बधाई देना चाहूंगा। आपने हाउस में फुटबाल खेलने का अच्छा प्रयत्न किया। अंतर इतना है कि आपने डिफेंस बहुत कमजोर रखा। उन्होंने अपने गोल को, डिफेंस को किस प्रकार सम्भालने का प्रयत्न किया, मेरी समझ में नहीं आता, लेकिन उन्होंने मेरे दिल की बात कही। स्माल इनवेस्टर्स के बारे में अभी कांग्रेस के लोगों के मन और ह्ृदय में दर्द पैदा हो गया है, जो एक अच्छी शुरूआत है। मैं दासमुंशी जी को एक ही टेबल बताना चाहूंगा। If you care so much for small investors, what were you doing at the time when your Finance Minister had started disinvestment?

यूनिट ट्रस्ट ऑफ इंडिया, जिस पर स्माल इनवेस्टर और आम आदमी को सबसे ज्यादा श्रद्धा और विश्वास है। मैंने गत बार भी यहीं बताया था और मैं उसकी सच्चाई लेकर आपके सामने आया हूं। बंगाईगांव रिफाइनरी, बीपीसीएल, भेल, भारत इलैक्ट्रोनिक, अर्थ मूवर्स, गेल, एचपीसीएल आदि का मैं पूरा स्टेटमेंट पढ़ सकता हूं। पांच साल की सरकार के दरम्यान आपने ३५६१ करोड़ रुपए, इन सब पब्लिक कम्पनियों के यूटीआई को शेयर्स दिए। यूटीआई से ३५६१ करोड़ रुपए ले लिए, जो छोटे इनवेस्टर्स का पैसा था। दासमुंशी जी, आज उसकी कीमत सिर्फ ११०० करोड़ रुपए रह गई है। आपने लाख-करोड़ रुपए लूटने की बात कही है, लेकिन २४०० करोड़ आपके खीसे में हैं, सबसे पहले वह निकालिए। मैं ऐसे अनेक उदाहरण दे सकता हूं। आपके माननीय मंत्री जी बैंकिंग अमेंडमेंट एक्ट ५१ प्रतिशत लाए थे। ५१ प्रतिशत लाने के बाद आपने चार-पांच पब्लिक सैक्टर बैंक के शेयर मार्केट में बेचे, उसकी लिस्ट मैं यहां दे सकता हूं, जो बेचेMost of them is gross divestment.

इंडियन बैंक के शेयर केनरा बैंक ने परचेज किए, केनरा बैंक के बैंक ऑफ इंडिया ने परचेज़ किए और बैंक ऑफ इंडिया के देना बैंक ने परचेज़ किए। ये आंकड़ों की जगलरी केवल कांग्रेस कर सकती है। उन्हें परचेज़ किया, मुझे इसमें कोई आपत्ति नहीं है, लेकिन आपने युनिट ट्रस्ट ऑफ इंडिया के माथे बैंक के शेयर मारे और उसकी कीमत आज आधी हो गई है। स्माल इनवेस्टर्स के खीसे में ७८०० करोड़ रुपए का लॉस हुआ, जो आपके खीसे में गए हैं। उन्हें छोटे इनवेस्टर्स को वापस करने की कृपा करें। स्माल इनवेस्टर्स के बारे में वित्त मंत्री जी का मैंने सबसे पहले अभिनन्दन किया था।

Here is a Finance Minister who is concerned about small investors.

स्माल इनवेस्टर्स की व्यथा, वेदना, यातना के बारे में मैं जानता हूं।

मैं आपका आभार मानूंगा कि पहली बार कम्पनी एक्ट में अमेंडमेंट हुआ और स्माल इनवेस्टर्स के प्रतनधि को कम्पनी के डायरेक्टर में प्रतनधित्व मिलने वाला है। उसकी सबसे पहले केबिनेट में हिमायत माननीय यशवंत सिन्हा जी ने की थी। उन्होंने इस बारे में काफी कुछ किया है, लेकिन मैं एक बात और कहना चाहूंगा।What matters is the credibility. What is important is the goodwill of the Government.महत्व किस चीज का होता है, महत्व होता है कि सरकार किस की है, कौन नेतृत्व कर रहा है? लोगों की उनके प्रति कितनी श्रद्धा है और वे कैसे नेशनल, इंटरनेशनल लेवल पर जान सकते हैं?

India resurgent Bonds were issued. सत्ता में आते ही उन्होंने इसे निकाला। What was the response? Rs.4.2 billion came. आप कहेंगे कि वह ऐसे ही हो गया।

अभी तो आपने इकोनमी दिखाई। टाइम्स आफ इंडिया के सैंटर पेज पर श्री दुभाषी जी का आर्टिकल पढ़ा लेकिन उसके एडीटर ने जो आर्टिकल लिखा, उसे आपने नहीं पढ़ा होगा। ऩटबाल मे डिफेंस का ध्यान रखना चाहिये। यदि वे पढ़ेंगे तो जो श्री दुभाषी जी ने बताया, उन्होंने उनसे दस गुना ज्यादा अच्छा चित्र खड़ा किया है। स्टेट बैंक ऑफ इंडिया ने इंडियन मलनियम बांड निकाला। श्री वाजपेयी जी के नेतृत्व में एक अलग सूर्य नई दिशा की ओर नजर आया निकाला।What were you doing at that time? This time proudly we can say, under the leadership of Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee and under hon. Minister of Finance, foreign exchange reserve is the highest ever India had. It is 39 billion dollars.और १९९० में जब आपने श्री चन्द्र शेखर जी की सरकार को समर्थन दिया था, तब सोना गिरवी रखना पड़ा था। क्या उस समय आप सो रहे थे?One point you have raised about the NPA and cigarette. Let me start with cigarette. What do you say is totally correct. The total excise from cigarette is Rs. 8,183 p.m. आज यह हमारे पास है। यह सरकार की इज्जत है। आप सरकार का दिवाला निकाल सकते हैं लेकिन उस समय सरकार क्या कर रही थी? अभी ग्रोथ क्या होगा, मैं इसमें जाना नहीं चाहता। माननीय वित्त मंत्री जी इसका ठीक से जवाब देंगे। मैं यह बात मानता हूं कि आपने कुछ मुद्दे बहुत अच्छे उठाये हैं और उन में से कुछ का मैं समर्थन भी करता हूं। You will be totally exempted from paying any excise duty. सबसे ज्यादा एक्साइज सिग्रेट से आता है। १९९७ में आपकी सरकार ने कहा कि यदि नार्थ ईस्ट स्टेट्स में सिग्रेट कम्पनी लगाओगे तो आपको एक्साइज में बैनफिट दिया जायेगा। यदि आप कहें कि सिग्रेट को छोटा साइज करने के बाद किया, उसे छोड़ दीजिये कि इस में कितना पैसा जायेगा। यह सब काम नार्थ ईस्ट स्टेट्स में सिग्रेट कम्पनी लगाने के लिये कहा गया You want to know, it is Rs. 150 crore to Rs. 180 crore per month. Who is going to pay, the then hon. Minister of Finance, the deal that was done by this Government and started by you people? इस कारण से सरकार की जेब से कितना पैसा जा रहा है, मैं यह जानना चाहता हूं। Nearly the loss will be Rs. 2,000 crore p.a. नार्थ ईस्ट स्टेट्स में किसने सिग्रेट कम्पनी लगायी है, मैं वह भी जानना चाहता हूं। मैं आंकड़े भी दे सकता हूं। वहां पर १६ यूनिट्स लगाये गये लेकिन सब कागजात पर रहे। उनमें से १५ सिग्रेट कम्पनीज ने एक भी पैकेट नहीं बनाया।Almost all on paper.इस बारे में किसने फैसला लिया, क्यों लिया? यदि इसके बदले नार्थ ईस्ट स्टेट्स को १००-५० करोड़ रुपये दे देते Excise refund claim by only one company. I will give you the name, the North-Eastern Tobacco Co. Limited, Guwahati. वहां सिग्रेट कम्पनी किसने लगाई? गोल्डन टोबैको, इंडियन टोबैको, वज़ीर सुलतान, गोल्ड फ्लैक। इन चारों ने १६ यूनिट्स लगाये। Who is the owner of this Golden Tobacco and NITCO Company? यह आप की सरकार ने किया था। वित्त मंत्री जी इस बात पर ध्यान दे रहे हैं, मैं विश्वास करता हूं कि वे गलती करने वाले का नाम बतायेंगे। जिस प्रकार का एरर या आब्जैक्टमेंट किया, वह विदड्रा करना चाहिये। सरकार को बैसिक एक्साइज में बेनेफिट नहीं देना पड़ेगा। यह फोर्जरी हुई है। मैं निटको कम्पनी के बारे में बता सकता हूं कि उसके मालिक कौन हैं। The company had an agreement with Assam Government, Assam Industrial Development Corporation. In the First quarter, the excise refund claim was Rs. 93.51 crore.

आसाम इंडस्टि्रयल डेवलपमैंट कारपोरेशन, यह कम्पनी लॉस में गई। उसके बाद यह बी.आई.एफ.आर. में गई, बी.आई.एफ.आर. में जाने के बाद उस पर कितने केसिज चल रहे हैं - पहला १५ लाख का, दूसरा ४० लाख का, तीसरा ४२५ करोड़ का, चौथा ६७ करोड़ का, पांचवा २८ करोड़ और छठा सात करोड़ का ये सब केसिज उस पर चल रहे हैं। उसके मालिक कौन है, जरा आप ही जानकारी कर लीजिए। मुझे ऐसा लगता है कि आपने फुटबाल अच्छी खेलने का प्रयत्न किया है, लेकिन आपसे थोड़ी सी गलती हो गई, आपने गोलकीपर ठीक नहीं रखा था। You were talking about NPA. What is the meaning of NPA? It is ‘Non-Performing Assets’. नॉन परफोर्मिंग असेट्स कब डेवलप होती है, क्या एक साल में होती है। जब एन.डी.ए. की सरकार आई, इसे आये हुए दो साल हुए हैं। मेरे ख्याल में दो साल में फाइनेन्स मनिस्टर ने इतने सारे लोन्स दे दिये और वे डेढ़ साल में एऩ.पी.ए. हो गये। I am not able to understand. Several times during discussions, debates, Question Hour, everybody is shouting against the Finance Minister, against the present Government.ये लोन्स किसने दिये थे, ये कर्जा किसने दिया था, क्या हमने दिया था, जो डेढ़-दो साल में एन.पी.ए. हो गया डेढ़ साल पहले हमने कर्जा दिया और एक साल में कम्पनीज उठाकर भाग गई।It is your people. What you have done, do you want to know? You have appointed a person named Shri Kulwant Rai – a Director appointed by the Government, a non-Executive private person. आई.डी.बी.आई. बैंक, आई.सी.आई.सी.आई. ऊषा ग्रुप आदि कहां-कहां पर डायरेक्टर अपाइंट किया, उन्होने कितना पैसा इकठ्ठा किया, उनके कितने एन.पी.ए. हुए। A Director is appointed by your hon. Finance Minister in financial institution. उन्होने फाइनेन्शियल इंस्टीटयूशन से लोन ले लिये और लोन लेकर एन.पी.ए. हो गया, डिफॉल्टर हो गये। Who has given loans to the Mescos Group? उस ग्रुप की एक कम्पनी नहीं छ: कम्पनियों को लोन किसने दिया। And you are shouting against Shri Yashwant Sinha. पाप आप करो और उल्टा हमें कहो। हमारे मुम्बई की हिंदी में कहावत है - सौ चूहे खाये बिल्ली हज को चली। क्या आप और सुनना चाहते हैं। मैं आपको कितनी कंपनियों के नाम गिनाऊं। मैं फाइनेन्स मनिस्टर को प्रार्थना करने वाला हूं that at present there is no co-ordination or monetary system existing between these Government financial institutions. एक जगह से एक कम्पनी लोन लेती है, उसी ग्रुप की दूसरी कम्पनी दूसरी जगह से कर्जा लेती है, तीसरी जगह से वर्किंग कैपिटल लेती है और चौथी जगह से इक्विटी पार्टीसिपेशन करवाती है। फिर इंटरेस्ट रीपेमेन्ट नहीं करती है। वह इंटरेस्ट भरने के लिए वहां पर दूसरे बैंक से लोन लेती है, फिर री-शेड््यूलिंग, फिर कॉस्ट ओवररन, यानी नया कर्जा और उसके बाद रीशेड़्यूलिंग।I will tell you the name of one group. That group is having an oil company. The same group is having a power company, a shipping company and a steel company. And all the four are in default.

सभापति महोदय, मैं आपको एल.आई.सी. का एग्जाम्पल देता हूं। एल.आई.सी. ने इस कम्पनी को लोन दिया।Term loan to oil company - Rs.198 crore; term loan for power project – Rs. 19.90 crore; total finance given to shipping company – Rs.62 crore; total finance given to LIC – Rs.186 crore. इसके बाद फिर जी.आई.सी. ने इन्हीं सेम कम्पनीज, सेम ग्रुप को लोन दिया और जी.आई.सी. ने कितना दिया - पावर कम्पनी को २० करोड़, ऑयल कम्पनी को ४७ करोड़, शिपिंग को ४३ करोड़, स्टील कम्पनी को ९४ करोड़ दिया। मैं इसके आगे का किस्सा सुनाता हूं जो ज्यादा मजेदार है। इसमें सबसे ज्यादा मजे की बात क्या है।The institutions have funded the interest and rescheduled the repayment of instalments. वह कौन सी कम्पनी का है, वह ऑयल कम्पनी का है। Now, see the steel company. The institutions are restructuring the long-term debts. इसके आगे आप सुनिये।

Now, once again on steel, the reduction of interest rate and longer repayment schedule is requested by the institution. Then again, in the power company there is an interest overdue of Rs. 6.18 crore and the principal overdue is Rs. 2.78 crore. The company has approached the institutions for restructuring of the debt, reduction of interest rate and longer repayment schedule.

20 करोड़ का लोन, उसमें से ९ करोड़ ओवरडयू हो गया। No single instalment is repaid. इस ग्रुप को कितना पैसा दिया था। आप क्या इस ग्रुप का नाम सुनना चाहेंगे और इसके लिएplease do not talk about the thing. और इस प्रकार के आरोप मत करिये। मैं वित्त मंत्री जी से प्रार्थना करना चाहता हूं कि you have to bring out some correction or may make an amendment. और इसके लिए क्योंकि अलग-अलग फाइनेन्शियल इंस्टीटयूशन से ये बिजनेस हाउसेज पैसा लेते हैं, रीपेमेन्ट नहीं करते हैं, इंटरस्ट पेमेन्ट के लिए फिर लोन लेते हैं, रीशैडयूलिंग करवाते हैं और दुख की बात यह है कि वापस गवर्नमेंट के पास, दूसरी कंपनीज़ के लाइसेन्सेज के लिए आते हैं और गवर्नमेंट किसकी भी हो, उनको लाइसेन्स मिलता है, फिर लोन मिलता है। प्लेन खरीदते हैं, मजा करते हैं। We were talking about the NPA.

श्री नामदेव हरबाजी दिवाथे (चिमूर) : सारा कर्ज़ा माफ करवा लेते हैं।

श्री किरीट सोमैया: वह भी सही है। I will give an example of IDBI where the loans below Rs. 10 crore were of Rs. 3,380 crore in 1999-2000 and the loans which are more than Rs. 10 crore are of Rs. 22,969 crore.

और मैं आपकोIDBI , ICICI, SIDBI हरेक का दे सकता हूं। दस करोड़ से कम लोन वाले मुश्किल से १५ प्रतिशत हैं।Eighty five per cent of the loans are given to the big business houses, big industries etc. कुछ बहुत अच्छे इंडस्टि्रयल हाउसेज हैं, मैं उनकी चर्चा में नहीं जाता हूं। वह अच्छे हैं, उसके कारण देश का नाम बढ़ता है, लेकिन कुछ इस प्रकार के लोग हैं और जिनको आप इस प्रकार से मदद करते हैं। मैं एक बात अंत में यह भी कहना चाहूंगा कि हम आज जब चर्चा करते हैं, यह बात सही है कि चाइनीज़ गुड्ज की बात निकली है, मैं दासमुंशी जी की बात का समर्थन करता हूं कि चाइनीज गुड्ज और वाया नेपाल जो सामान आता है, उसके लिए संसद में चर्चा होनी चाहिए। सार्क कंट्रीज़ के साथ हम फ्री ट्रेड जोन बनाएंगे। कुछ दिन पहले दक्षिण के मित्र चर्चा कर रहे थे कि श्रीलंका से कोकोनट आ रहा है, कहीं से पामोलीन ऑइल आ रहा है। नेपाल से फोटो रोल, वनस्पति सिगरेट वगैरह की स्मगलिंग होती है, ऑफशियल होती है, अनऑफशियल होती है। We will have to study the major reasons and we will have to re-think and review it. कि अलग-अलग देशों के साथ हम ट्रीटी करते हैं। सार्क कंट्रीज़ के साथ हमने फ्री ट्रेड ज़ोन बना दिया। अगर आप बेसिक रॉ मैटीरियल इंपोर्ट करते हैं You will have to pay 43 per cent maximum duty. But if you bring it via Nepal थोड़ी सी पॉलिश करके यह वाया श्रीलंका या बंग्लादेश then that person has to pay only 5 per cent of duty. लेकिन यह हमने नहीं किया है। WTO आपने साइन किया था। You forget it. हम सबने मिलकर देश चलाना है। इसलिए मैं यह प्रार्थना करूंगा कि कभी हमें इस विषय पर चर्चा करनी पड़ेगी किWhoever has signed the free-trade zone and double taxation treaties, we will have to re-think on it. हमें इस पर सोचना पड़ेगा कि देश के हित में क्या है। देश के हित में अगर श्रीलंका के न्यूजपेपर, श्रीलंका के ऐडवर्टाइजमेंट यहां दिल्ली और मुम्बई के इकोनॉमिक टाइम्स में आते हैं It says that : ‘now we have entered into a free trade agreement with the Government of India and so you can have an industry here and you can export goods to India at 5 per cent duty.’ पांच परसेंट डयूटी पर। यानी हमें यह सोचने की आवश्यकता है और इसलिए मैं अंत में यही प्रार्थना करूंगा कि चाइनीज गुड्ज का विषय हो या दूसरा विषय हो, इसी प्रकार से जो काउंटर वेलिंग डयूटीज कॉसमैटिक्स पर लगती हैं, लिपस्टिक हो, कॉस्मैटिक आइटम्स हो, उस पर यहां की स्माल स्केल इंडस्ट्रीज़ वाले को एम.आर.पी. पर डयूटी लगानी पड़ती है और इंपोर्टेड आइटम्स पर कॉस्ट में डयूटी भरनी पड़ती है। उससे हमारी स्माल स्केल इंडस्ट्री को नुकसान होता है। वह जो काउंटर वेलिंग डयूटी लगाने का सिस्टम है, उसमें आप बदलाव करेंगे तो यहां की इंडस्ट्री को फायदा होगा। मुझे पता है कि आपने चाइनीज गुड्ज को खत्म करने के लिए बहुत सारे कदम उठाए हैं। आपने अनेक स्टैप्स सदन में भी घोषित किये।

सभापति महोदय, मैं आपके माध्यम से वित्त मंत्री महोदय से निवेदन करना चाहता हूं कि मुझे विश्वास है कि आप इस प्रकार से इंडियन इंडस्ट्री की रक्षा करेंगे और अन्त में मैं वही प्रार्थना करूंगा जैसी प्रार्थना श्री प्रियरंजन दासमुंशी जी ने अपना भाषण प्रारंभ करते हुए की कि वित्त मंत्री महोदय, स्माल इन्वैस्टर प्रोटैक्टर एक्ट लेकर जरूर आएंगे जिसके कारण उनका भला हो सके, उनका रक्षण हो सके और जो म्युचुअल, गवर्नमेंट म्युचुअल, प्राइवेट वित्तीय कंपनियां, वैनीशिंग कंपनियां, नॉन बैंकिंग और बैंकिंग निजी कंपनियां तथा अन्य वित्तीय कंपनियां इनवैस्टर का पैसा लेकर भाग जाती हैं, उनसे इनवैस्टर का रक्षण हो सके। मुझे विश्वास है कि वित्त मंत्री जी इस पर जरूर विचार करेंगे और मैं उनके द्वारा सदन में प्रस्तुत मांगों का समर्थन करता हूं।

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGLY): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the Supplementary Demands, which has 27 Grants and one Appropriation Bill, seek to authorise a gross additional expenditure of Rs. 2,689.09 crore, out of which, a gross additional expenditure of Rs. 1,067.11 crore is being met by the savings of the Ministries concerned. Out of this total expenditure of Rs. 1,571.79 crore, the major expenditure is in relation to the Corpus Fund in respect of NCCF. The recommendation of the Eleventh Finance Commission is to set up a National Calamity Contingency Fund to provide financial assistance to the States for natural calamities of rare severity, to meet situations like cyclones, droughts, earthquakes, fires, floods, hailstorms etc. As you know, this House has been witness to the persistent demands made by certain States including West Bengal which, in the month of September, has been affected by an unprecedented flood involving the loss of more than 1300 precious human lives. The total damage, as estimated by the Government of West Bengal, and as admitted by the Government of India on the basis of visits made by different officials belonging to the Agriculture Ministry and others, was to the tune of Rs. 5,660 crore. The State Government, going beyond its capacity, had already spent more than Rs. 560 crore, and had requested the Central Government to provide a minimum financial assistance to the tune of Rs. 1,487 crore. Now, although late, this Corpus Fund is being set up, and I welcome it.

As you know, we have been making this demand, and there has been a dharna at Delhi. Even the former Chief Minister of West Bengal had joined the dharna, and a Bengal bandh had been announced. Since the Government, at long last, agreed to set up this Fund, the call for Bengal bandh, the strike, has been withdrawn.

I welcome this move. I also support the Taxation Laws (Amendment) Bill, 2000, which is simultaneously being discussed, where a provision is being made to impose one per cent surcharge on income-tax payable by domestic companies. I support it, and I welcome the move.

But before going into the other proposals, including some related proposals, I shall be failing in my duty if I do not make a mention of the fast deteriorating economic situation in the country.

Sir, there has been industrial recession and this has been admitted by the Government. Even the business houses like the CII, the FICCI, and others have admitted this. This is a matter of grave concern to all of us and particularly, the manufacturing sector has been witnessing the worst situation. In short, it is a situation of stagflation. I do not know whether the hon. Finance Minister would agree with me or not. He may not agree with it. While on the one hand there is stagnation on the other hand we find there is inflation. One of my esteemed colleagues has been mentioning about the rate of inflation. Today the rate of inflation has crossed 7.45 per cent. Very soon it may reach double digit figures. Even a year back, it was hovering barely around three per cent or even less than that.

Sir, in the backdrop of this scenario, the manufacturing sector as well as the capital goods sector are having a demand recession. It is being said that inflation can be broadly accounted for by the rise in the prices of products coming from the manufacturing sector. I do not know as to how these two things could be reconciled with.

Sir, there has been a mention about dumping. There is a lot of controversy over dumping. In our total imports of not less than 350 billion dollars, only a very small fraction could be accounted for by imports from China. Maybe, there is smuggling as a result of some Treaty with Nepal and such other things. But the Small industries and the cottage industries have been seriously affected as a result of this. There are, of course, industries which have benefited for reasons of cheap imports.

Sir, there was a mention about the Khaitans. I read about a very reputed electrical company in some economic magazine. The Managing Director and the Chairman of the company admitted that earlier they had been providing jobs to their ancillaries, but ultimately it was seen that imports from countries like Taiwan, Malaysia and such other places were very cheap and it affected them and so they started giving their own brand names and stopped production from their ancillaries. This is what is happening in low cost steel products and pencil batteries.

Sir now after China joins the WTO things would take a different course. There are suggestions from important industrial houses to the effect that why not India explore the Chinese market by competition. We have our products which may have some good possibility of being absorbed in the Chinese market. These are the areas that have to be taken care of. The Capital Market is in doldrums. It is at the whims of some foreign financial investors and speculators. Rupee is depreciating very fast and the over all picture is bleak.

Sir, although the Finance Minister is trying to assure the nation that the fiscal deficit would be kept at 5.1 per cent only and it would not go beyond that, yet economists who attended the World Economic Forum do not believe in that. Fiscal deficit as such should not be any yardstick. It is a new yardstick being talked of by organisations like the IMF and such other bodies. If fiscal deficit has taken place because of increase in the capaital expenditue and for reasons of providing infrastructure,it is one thing. We cannot oppose fiscal deficit as such. The matter that is of grave concern is that fiscal deficit is taking place as a result of non-plan and wasteful expenditure, like salaries and such other things. Such things have nothing to do with production and growth of the economy of this country.

Sir, reckless, directionless and desperate disinvestment is in no way contributing to the growth of the Indian economy. There are targets for mobilisation of rupees ten thousand crore. I do not know for what purpose. Mostly, maybe, for meeting the fiscal deficit.

17.00 hrs. There is no policy at all as to how it is going to be used to retire public debt; and how much of it would be used for restructuring purposes. It has come to such a situation now.

I would like to cite examples of this. The Voluntary Retirement Scheme has been announced by the nationalised banks. What has been the experience there? Employees of the upper category posts like the General Managers and others, and efficient and talented people have availed of the scheme and left the organisations. According to the Supreme Court, one cannot discriminate against any particular category of employees as far as this scheme is concerned. The same thing has happened in the Bank of India? It has happened in New India Assurance also. It is the people at the top posts and people who are talented who have left these organisations. I cannot but mention that two industrial houses, one steel company and another private company, which is rated as one of the most profit-making companies of the world, have got benefited by this. Most the talented people from New India Assurance have left. This is what is happening. I had made this point when I had spoken on the IRA Bill too.

Such is the situation now that the State Bank of India does not want to announce VRS for their bank. Do you know why? It is because the mechanism of their pension fund is such that the whole money would go for VRS if they introduce it now. It would result in the State Bank of India itself going into financial difficulties.

Foreign exchange reserves have been claimed to have been unprecedented. With 36 to 37 billion dollars; it has been claimed that the situation has never been so good. However, there is going to be the problem of worsening balance of payments situation even before 31st March. They are trying to manage the situation by issuing India Millennium Deposits. What will happen after some years? It would happen as it happened in the case of India Resurgent Bonds also. It was a very high cost deposit mobilisation. By adopting several ad hoc measures, we are making things more and more difficult for the country. Such is the bleak scenario in all sectors of our economy.

There is stagnation in our agriculture. The rate of growth of population and the rate of growth of foodgrains do not match. At one point of time in the 80s, as a result of ‘Green Revolution’, our foodgrains production had surpassed our population growth. Again in the 90s, since so-called reforms have been initiated, our population growth has surpassed our foodgrains production. Our foodgrains production is now hovering around 19 crore tonnes to 19.5 crore tonnes now. Within a year or two, our requirement of foodgrains would go up to at least 23 crore tonnes, both wheat and rice taken together.

In view of this, in the field of biotechnology, I welcome the proposal of rice genome sequencing research. Funding a project of rice genome sequencing is very important for us. However, the funds allotted should have been more. We are one of the ten countries who are joining international rice genome research. As far as I know, our Department of Bio-Technology and ICAR are jointly doing the work of identifying genome for 11 chromosomes, and in the meanwhile Monsanto, a major in the life science research body, has come out with details of all the 12 chromosomes of rice. Taking into consideration our climatic conditions and our potential, biotechnology and information technology are the two areas which can give a fillip to mobilisation of our natural resources towards our growth. These two fields can jointly emerge as the best engine of growth for our country. So, I welcome this proposal. But I think it should have been more than what it is now.

I shall confine myself to the specific proposals made in the Supplementary Demands. There is a mention about PDS. In West Bengal and Uttar Pradesh, there has been a deliberate move by the Government to dismantle the PDS by raising the prices of wheat, rice and sugar, thereby making the people poorer.

This Government has dismantled it by raising the prices of wheat, rice and sugar making people poorer. This is the admission of the Prime Minister that the economic reforms has by-passed the poorer. The poverty alleviation is not being focussed on the poor people. The people who are benefited are the handful richer sections. How rich are they?

Sir, on 04th December this month, there was a news item in the Hindu. It said that in the city of Delhi, there had been two marriages -- one at the house of a textile magnet and the other at the house of a very eminent industrialist, and in those marriages, a single invitation card did cost Rs. 5,000. There, all invitees, guests came on chartered planes. They stayed in the Five Star hotels. They were provided with new dresses. They were provided with new cars. All the drivers and chauffeurs were provided with pagers. Everybody was provided with a mobile telephone. Who were the persons present there? They were politicians, bureaucrats, taxmen and others.

But when Shri Laloo Prasad Yadav, on the occasion of a family social function was providing some lities, to say about 4,000 to 5,000 people who were there, the taxmen went from New Delhi to Patna to get hold of him. But nothing happens when in Delhi itself, such a big thing happens. It was reported in the Press that hundreds of lakhs of rupees were spent in one night only in Delhi. I can name Ministers along with the taxmen who visited those ceremonies… (Interruptions)…It is happening in the Capital city of Delhi.

Sir, on the revenue collection, there is one per cent surcharge on the domestic consumption. The foreign companies -- I can name them -- are not paying even a single paisa as income tax, and they are the most profitable companies.

श्री नखिल कुमार चौधरी:लालू जी की लड़की की शादी में क्या लिट्टी और चोखा ही चला था?

श्री रूपचन्द पाल (हुगली):बहुत कुछ खिलाया। उनको पकड़ा गया, जेल भेजा गया। लेकिन जो यहां दिल्ली में हो रहा है, टैक्समैन था, पोलटशियन्स थे, मनिस्टर्स थे और लाखों-लाख करोड़ों रुपए चार्टर्ड प्लेन से आया, रशिया से आया था, मास्को से आया था, यूके से आया था, उनका क्या हुआ?

श्री नखिल कुमार चौधरी:हम लोग लालू जी के यहां शादी में गए थे।

श्री रूपचन्द पाल : लालू जी को छोड़िए।

१७.०८ hrs. (Dr. Raghuvansh Prasad Singh in the Chair) I am giving only a comparison. Sir, there is a tax arrear of Rs. 58,000 crore, and those individuals or companies are not paying any tax. What are they doing? It is one per cent to the domestic consumption. The most profit-making companies are the zero tax companies. On several occasions, we have been raising this issue. Now, they have become minimum alternate tax companies. I am not naming them. I am making a mention of a very serious issue. I had written a letter to the hon. Finance Minister and also approached the hon. Speaker. I approached the hon. Speaker for my Short Notice Question. It was not admitted. Now, only today, I got the reply as an Unstarred Question, and I am indebted to him for the reply. My question was: "whether it is a fact that the advance tax payment has turned out to be a lucrative proposition for some assesses given the current low rate of interest from term deposit of banks and higher interest rate paid in respect of refunds by income tax authorities".

In regard to the total interest outgo every year paid by income tax authorities on account of refunds for excess advance tax, what is happening? If one assessee has to pay, say about Rs. 2 crore, he is depositing Rs. 5 crore because after three years, he will get 12 per cent interest on Rs. 3 crore. How is it rising? I have got the figures with me. The Ministry has not provided me all the figures. I have myself got the figures. In 1997-98, the amount of refund was Rs. 878.87 crore.

In the next year, that is in the financial year 1998-99, it was Rs.1,727.12 crore. It is subsequently going up and up. It is a good business. If my assessment is for Rs.2 crore and I am depositing Rs.10 crore, I will get interest at the rate of 12 per cent because it will take more than three years for the authorities to make the payment. Such is the situation.

The double taxation avoidance treaty is an old subject. Almost all major multinational companies and all major Indian companies have registered themselves in Mauritius, a small island and got a certificate of registration. I am not quarrelling with that because it is a friendly country. But the Government of India is losing revenue on this account. There is an immense potential for earning revenue. We are losing revenue; there is tax evasion; there is generation of black money; and there are tax arrears also. They are using such dubious ways to deprive the Government of its revenue.

I would like to know why there is only one per cent Surcharge on domestic companies. When we discussed the national calamities in this House, hon. Members, cutting across party lines and covering the whole House, said that at some point of time or the other in the year, there is either drought or flood or earthquake. We have seen the supercyclone that affected Orissa. Today, I asked some of my esteemed colleagues from Orissa how many of them were still under the open sky – whether the figure was 50,000 or one lakh and they said that it was far more than that. There are reports of starvation deaths from Orissa. It is my neighbouring State. We have our friends there through whom we get to know these facts. So, why has this Surcharge been kept at only one per cent? The Eleventh Finance Commission has suggested Rs.500 crore as corpus fund. It will have to be filled by resources mobilised from taxes or surcharge on Central taxes. It is all right to keep it at one per cent but how are you going to distribute the money according to the need and severity of the situation?

All of us know the situation in West Bengal, Orissa and Madhya Pradesh. On that day when we had the debate on natural calamities, all sections of the House, cutting across party lines, came out saying that the Government should set up such a fund which would take care of all exigencies.

There are areas in Orissa where hundreds and thousands of students are leaving their schools to take up some job in order to have some food. The Mid-Day Meal Scheme was a very good scheme. The Government has ultimately imposed the economic cost on the Food Corporation of India. The handling cost, the transportation and economic costs have been transferred to the Food Corporation of India has not been performing efficiently. There have been cases of corruption. This is how even good schemes are suffering. I would suggest that the Government should rethink about this.

I now come to some of the areas of concern. The Government has proposed assistance from the Department of Chemicals and Petrochemicals to the Indian Drugs and Pharmaceuticals Limited, Bengal Immunity Limited, etc. This assistance is of Rs.48.67 crore as Non-Plan allocation for salaries. Why is the assistance given only for salaries? There are revival plans that have to be considered. Even the other day, a Memorandum was submitted to the Ministry and I gather that the Department has very recently sent a note to the Prime Minister for expediting the revival package.

Do we not need medicines? How should we depend on the multinationals only for medicines? Companies like IDPL, Bengal Immunities Ltd., Smith Stanistreet Pharmaceuticals Ltd., etc. in the public sector have produced good medicines at a cheap and at affordable prices. My suggestion would be that the Government should think about revival and should not think only about non-plan sort of a provision for salaries, etc. About Electronic Trade Technology Corporation Limited, ETTC, I want to say something. … (Interruptions) Yes, I supported you and you supported me. … (Interruptions) Why should we wind it up? They should be re-employed and they may be provided some sort of encouragement to render services. But they have allotted an amount of Rs.8.42 crore. I have taken up this matter with the concerned Minister, but I request the hon. Finance Minister also to extend his helping hand in this regard. … (Interruptions) They have closed it down. But they have to give some payments. … (Interruptions) I do not want to go into the details of Bharat Sanchar Nigam Limited. Now in the Supplementary Demands for Grants, they have allotted Rs.1 crore. What I am saying is that it is a matter of grave concern. When the new telecom policy was announced, what was said? They said that it is to provide quicker telecom service to people, better rural service to expedite process, etc. After that, the private sector will come to basic telephones, cellular telephones, etc. Ultimately, TRAI was set up. What happened then? As you know, it came to a standstill. Leave alone the rural areas, even for many towns and urban areas, Bharat Sanchar Nigam Limited has come out with a proposal saying that they were ready to provide Wireless in Local Loop Service at a rate of Rs.1.40 for three minutes. It will have a limited mobility, justly like cordless, whereby you can have the service for 15 kms. But they are obstructing it. TRAI is sitting over it. The Department of Telecommunications is prepared to provide cheap telephone services. Wireless in Local Loop Service is a very relevant proposition for distant areas, for hilly areas, for remote areas and also for the urban people who can afford, by using it as a cellular phone with a limited mobility. But the private sector is standing in the way.

In the language of reforms, they say that consumer is the king. But we find that consumer is not the king. Consumers want services at affordable prices. But the private operators say that reforms is for more profit for them so that they become richer and that it is not for poor people of India and not for the middle class of India.

So, the economic policies being pursued by this Government which are reflected in the Supplementary Demands for Grants are going to cause disaster to our economy. But still there are two or three areas on which I support.

With this support, I hope that the government would have a re-think over all those wrong policies being pursued by them.

SHRI T.T.V. DHINAKARAN (PERIYAKULAM): Hon. Chairman, Sir, as I rise to speak on the Supplementary Demands for Grants (General), I feel that it is my duty to express my gratitude to our great leader and the General Secretary of AIADMK, Dr. Puratchi Thalaivi because of whose benevolence, I am here today.

Sir, now I wish to register my views on behalf of AIADMK. We are in the penultimate year of the Ninth Plan. The mid-term appraisal of the Ninth Plan makes a grim reading. The Government’s claim of seven per cent growth is in jitters. Even 6.5 per cent growth at the end seems difficult. Oil bill import alone will go up by seven to eight billion dollars this year. To complicate matters, coalition partners are pulling in different directions over pricing and some of the structural reforms. I am sorry to say that India is yet to demonstrate that economic reforms can benefit the poor.

I would like to pose a pointed question to the hon. Finance Minister. I would like to know whether the Finance Ministry has reliable data with respect to generation of employment and alleviation of poverty as a result of over six per cent growth of economy in the 1990s; and whether any assessment has been made about the impact of reforms on the common man. I would like the Government to come out with a comprehensive statement giving all the details right from the start of reforms. This august House has a right to such information.

On the other side, globalisation is taking its toll. Quantitative restrictions are to be eliminated by 1st April, 2001. Even the quantitative restrictions imposed now, has very badly affected the domestic market, the growers and the traders. The farmers are the worst affected. When this adverse situation is bound to affect agricultural production, I do not know, how the desired growth of economy is going to be achieved.

It is said that agricultural products generally attract a maximum slab of 35 per cent applied import tariff. But in case of certain products such as rice, and sugar, the import tariff is between 60 and 100 per cent. Even 100 per cent import tariff on agricultural produce will fail to protect the interest of our farmers. It is because, there are items which are imported and sold for a price which is just one-third of the domestic price and even less. This was happening to cardamom till recently. Therefore, while fixing import tariff, the price of the produce in domestic market and the price of the same produce at which it will be made available in India after import, should be taken into account. Here, I wish to point out one thing. The import of tea threatens the very livelihood of small and marginal tea growers, particularly of Tamil Nadu. That is why my leader, Dr. Puratchi Thalaivi lodged a strong protest when the Government levied only fifteen per cent import tariff on tea. It was only after such strong protests that the import tariff on tea was increased from 15 per cent to 35 per cent. I am only trying to impress upon the point that for achieving the target growth of economy, agriculture needs to be protected at all costs.

The decision of the Government to phase out subsidies by 2002 sounds red alarm. If agriculture subsidies on fertilizers, seeds, power, etc., are phased out, from self-sufficiency in foodgrains production, the nation will have to go from country to country with a begging bowl. But, unfortunately, the Government has turned a blind eye to this fact. Even with 200 million tonnes of foodgrains production that we boast of, nearly one-third of the population is impoverished. But we have a Ministry for Information Technology with a budget of Rs.25,000 crore. This is the budget for a population of less than 10 per cent because computers are not within reach for the rest. Strangely, 38 per cent of our population is illiterate and nearly 40 lakh children are unable to attend school. Therefore, I would like to know whether the Government has any modality of transferring the benefits of economic reforms to the common man.

The Supplementary Demands for Grants show Rs.210 crore under the head of Department of Elementary Education and Literacy. We are for achieving 100 per cent literacy in the country. But, I am afraid, whether public money is being misused for pushing ahead the agenda of certain vested interests. Recently, the hon. Human Resource Development Minister released a draft curriculum for school education that aims to provide a uniform system for all classes in all States. It is apprehended that in the name of Indianising education the NDA Government is attempting to push the Hindutva agenda.

I wish to make one thing clear. Our late leader and former Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu, Dr. Annadurai once said that unity and uniformity cannot co-exist in a plural society like India. So, there cannot be uniformity if we continue to have unity which is supreme. Since `unity in diversity"" has been accepted, the BJP-led Government should not spend on weaving theHindutva agenda.

Finally, I wish to make a few points in respect of my constituency, Periakulam. Lots of mangoes and grapes are produced in my constituency. But the farmers are not able to get the maximum benefit out of it since they are perishable. There is an urgent need for construction for cold storage there. Then these fruits could be preserved and sold for a good price. In the last Budget, it was proposed to construct 100 cold storage places in the country to help farmers preserve their perishable produce. I would like to know whether any cold storage has come up in Tamil Nadu under the scheme.

There has been a demand in my constituency for setting up of factories for producing mango products such as mango jelly, mango juice, etc. These mango products could be exported and precious foreign-exchange could be earned. So, I would request the hon. Finance Minister to allocate funds for the construction of cold storage and mango-grape related industries in my constituency.

With these words, I conclude.

DR. B.B. RAMAIAH (ELURU): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity.

At the outset, I would like to state that the hon. Finance Minister has today presented the Supplementary Demands for Grants in respect of the General Budget for the year 2000-01 and also authorised payment for the appropriation of certain funds out of this. Some of our friends have mentioned about different issues like industry and other things. I would prefer to go in more for the present allocations made in respect of some important things that have come up in the Supplementary Demands.

As Shri Rupchand Pal has mentioned, a major amount of money, out of this, is going to the National Calamity Contingency Fund. I think each one of us is very happy about this. In fact, this was also mentioned in the earlier Budget. I think he is also coming up with another proposal for some more taxation. I think that is coming up after this and that will add to this money. I think that will help us. The National Calamity Contingency Fund is more important. Everyone of us is looking at it.… (Interruptions) Let us see what is going to be the provision. That is very important.

The other item of expenditure that I can see is for the Ministry of Consumer Affairs and Public Distribution. Foodgrains, subsidy and other things are involved. These have become very important in view of the present circumstances. Here, I have to mention one important aspect. In spite of the problems like drought, floods, cyclone and earthquake, still we are producing surplus food like rice, wheat, sugar, tobacco and any other item for that matter. We must really congratulate the farmers of this country. They really deserve it. More than 60 to 70 per cent people are there in the agricultural field. Any help for these people for their survival and further growth is very important. Along with this, I also submit that the provision of Rs.200 crore is not the only item. But the storage facility must be increased. Today, what is happening really is that there is increase in production of foodgrains. Simultaneously, the storage facility is also important because due to lack of storage facility, we are facing the biggest problem today. Simultaneously, we have to export the surplus foodgrains. These two things have to be taken care of. We are increasing production. To encourage more production in this country, proper storage facility should be there. I was told that the hon. Finance Minister has given some package for construction of further storage facilities. He has given some concessions and subsidy on interest on loan etc. He has also guaranteed it for some period. I am sure, that is very important.

The hon. Member has mentioned just now about the cold storage facility. It is very essential for all the commodities. In Andhra Pradesh, the hon. Chief Minister has now started storing even onions to the extent of 30,000 tonnes; chillies, tamarind and various other things. What happens is that when production increases, the price comes down. Within a few months, the price will shoot up again and the market becomes buoyant. Some of the common people find it difficulty. That is why, storage is absolutely essential. The hon. Finance Minister should look into that aspect also in the larger interest of public distribution and common man’s facilities.

Another item of expenditure that he has provided is for the Ministry of Home Affairs for modernisation of the State Police Forces. It is only this morning that we were talking about that aspect. Today,naxalism and other things are a big menace. They are affecting our economy and growth of this country. I feel we need a lot more things to strengthen peace and harmony in the States. So, modernisation of the State Police Forces is absolutely essential. I am quite happy that he has made a provision for that.

Another important item of expenditure is for the Human Resource Ministry. It is meant for the nutritional support for children. It is a very novel type of project. Today, we are talking about children and their education. There is a lack of education in this country. Wherever education is on the high side, development is good and progress is good. For this, hundred per cent education is very essential. Of course, it is a common subject which both the States and the Centre have to deal with. Whatever is helpful for the education purpose is also very important.

In spite of all these things if we are more competitive, we can really achieve results. Infrastructure is very important for the progress and prosperity of the country. In fact, this problem was pestering us quite often and we have been discussing more and more about it on a number of occasions. Infrastructure is going to be absolutely essential.

Of course, one good thing is that we have started Central Road Fund. With this Road Fund, we can develop major road highways, rural roads in the entire country. Both rural road and highways are important. National highways would help to create economy in the country. Transport cost is the biggest problem. So also, fuel consumption, pollution, etc. We have been talking of power generation for a long time. We have not been able to achieve increase in the power generation. Probably, the Finance Minister would look into these aspects and try to see as to what the areas of crises and as to how we should be able to improve the power generation. We cannot achieve industrial development, agricultural development and requirements on the domestic front without the increase in the power generation. Shortage of power is causing problems. I am sure that this matter is being repeatedly discussed for a long time. It has to be given top priority. We have to do it somehow or other.

Regarding our ports, I would like to say that our imports and exports are increasing. In the process, the cost of handling is creating a major problem. We have to economically compete with countries like Singapore where they are handling millions of tonnes of goods and in a fast pace. We are not able to have so many ports because of lack of facilities, proper technology, etc. Today, we have been exporting a lot of things, namely, textile items. They have to be exported by air. We have to improve handling, stagnation in the airports, and air flights.

Tourism is one of the most important industry of a number of countries. Even small countries are making huge amount of money. It gives a lot of employment and foreign exchange earnings. Even China has gone far ahead of us. We are not able to do even one-third of what China is doing in tourism. They have developed so much and they are giving more facilities. For the development of tourism, a lot of investment is not required. But we have to find out infrastructural facilities, technology, etc. The other day, I was in Mali Islands. I was surprised to see Jumbo airlines landing, taking off people. They are flourishing in tourism industry and doing this just because they have more facilities. They collect 2000 dollars per bed. We can also develop tourism. If we cannot do for ourselves, it is better we should find out who can help us to develop our tourism. Tourism would help us to prosper. A lot of people who visit tourist places express that they do not want modern things, what they want is the historical things that existed thousands of years back. In that field, India has a lot of historical sites.

The other day, we were in Khajuraho where we found that all the hotels are full. They were occupied with full of foreigners. They are there to see as to what existed thousands of years ago, as to who built those temples, as to how they were designed, carried out construction without any facilities during that time. We have a lot of opportunities and advantages. I am sure, tourism would be one of the important items which the hon. Finance Minister would consider for extending more facilities for the development of tourism.

I have already mentioned about agricultural sector. Support price has to be maintained. A number of countries are able to give high subsidies, etc. Now, people are talking about the WTO and other things. We have a lot of interests in the mechanism of the WTO. We can protect duties there simply because we are able to market it. Allowing the imports on OGL does not mean that what we are not doing, other countries are doing.

Today, many countries have given subsidy for these things and they are trying to support agricultural development. We can also do better than those people by giving a little more support. We know that the hon. Finance Minister knows that what is required is not much, but only a little more support and that would have the desired results. He knows about the requirements of fertilisers, insecticides and water supply.

Then, hydel projects should be given top priority in our country. It helps in many ways. It will reduce the damages caused due to floods and it will also help in power generation and agricultural development. It will initially cost more, but the recurring cost will be much low and the benefits will be much more. I hope that the hon. Finance Minister would look into this aspect and give top priority to hydel projects.

Sir, what is our strength? Today, we are making excellent progress in the field of information technology and the world recognised that Indian technology, Indian scientists are good. But we should give a little more support to our technical education. A lot of countries are today looking for Indian scientists and technologists; wherever they serve, in any part of the world, it will help our country, because we also grow along with them. So, our technical education is very important and our software people are going to be very important in future also. In the present day scenario, this is a very crucial area and we should extend more support to it.

Then, we are doing very well in the field of automobiles and we are able to export automobile parts and televisions to other countries. Our technicians are as good as anybody else in the world. If we give them proper training, they will be able to compete better. At the same time, we should not allow second-hand automobile and parts to come into this country. We produce very good automobile parts. If the second-hand automobile , which are being sold at throw-away prices, are allowed to come into this country, I think, that is going to affect us very much. So, we have to give a lot of protection in this sector.

The small-scale sector and agro-based industries need additional support. There are a number of ways in which we can provide more support and protection to them. We have the avenues to do it. The World Trade Organisation does not say that we cannot do it. We have the avenues and we can do it. My only request to the hon. Finance Minister is that he should have a cell where, just like foreign direct investment where we are able to take a decision every week, we can monitor things every week or 10 days, see what are our requirements, take quick decisions and give them enough support. If there is a delay in decision-making, it creates a number of problems. So, we should avoid delay in decision-making.

Sir, we have imported about 15 lakh tonnes of sugar this year. It is because of the reason that we have not been able to take a quick decision. If we had raised the import duty which we have done now, it would not have been dumped into our country. We have produced a surplus of 90 lakh tonnes of sugar, but we have imported so much. We realise now that we have to stop imports and we have to export also. So, proper decision at proper time is absolutely essential. Therefore, we need a cell which will constantly monitor these things and help in taking quick decisions.

So far as disinvestment is concerned, it has started more than 10 years ago. Even at that time, we thought that we should disinvest about Rs.10,000 crore per year. But even after 10 years, today, the total disinvestment done so far is to the tune of only Rs.18,000 crore. It means that it is going very slow and it is not done properly. Probably, as I have already mentioned, it requires an expert body which has knowledge and experience on disinvestment and take decisions at the appropriate time. It will be really of great help, because we have already invested Rs.2,50,000 crore in the public sector. Out of that, Rs.18,000 crore is a very small percentage. In fact, a large number of our public sector undertakings have got the capability to earn profit, but they need some financial support and even bank guaranteee. We are bringing out a strategy in which the industries can be combined together or merged together into a big organisation so as to face the competition.

So, we have to give enough financial support to small units so that they are able to face competition. We can allow them to have some sort of inter-departmental interaction frequently and see that they get help without compromising the quality of products and price, because efficiency is more important. As Mr. Rupchand Pal says, common man is more important. In the same way, quality and price are also very important and this is where we have to give proper attention.

I also find the sickness. What BIFR is doing today is a small percentage of that. We need a lot more industries where the restructure, amalgamation, mergers, etc. have to be made. Otherwise, investment worth thousands of crores of rupees is lying idle. The equipment is lying idle, and manpower has become a problem. This is increasing not only in this country, even in Japan and other developed countries are having a lot of sickness. It is due to technological changes, modernisation and due to various other factors. But constantly, they should be able to mobilise these things and try to see how these should be amalgamated, try to survive these industries and utilise the equipment to the maximum extent possible.

At the same, we are viewing competition or survival of the banking sector. Whereas internationally the rates are two per cent or three per cent, however, here we are going into the right direction. The hon. Finance Minister has made it and the Reserve Bank has stated that they have reduced one per cent. They still want to reduce it, but, of course, going along with other problems, for example, once you reduce the deposits also, the rate must come down. The provident fund people will object if you bring down that interest rate. Unless the deposit rate comes down, the interest rate will not come down. So, these things have to be properly managed. Even now we are giving some specialised type of interest rates for small scale industry, export, and agriculture. That is why, we have to support this banking system and other things.

Now, we are planning to give more share to the States. we have made it to 29 per cent, but they require, at least, 33 per cent. We have to make them a little bit more on this. I am sure that it is going to be one of the items which we are looking for.

If you look at it, in spite of all these things, our reserves are going up. Our inflation has gone up to 7.5 per cent and I think, we would be in a position to do it. Our industrial growth rate has to be improved, for that also I think, the hon. Prime Minister has recently taken up some review of these things and having some thought on this. Unless you have a growth rate of above eight per cent, probably the expectations of these people will not be fulfilled.

I think, with these few points, I thank you very much.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Sir, I thank the hon. Finance Minister for a very important thing, which I may be allowed to mention in the beginning. He has sought the Parliament to authorise him for gross additional expenditure of Rs.2639.09 crore; and out of this, an expenditure of Rs.1067.11 crore is met by savings of the concerned Ministry and the Departments or by enhanced receipts or recoveries.

The hon. Minister has made a very auspicious beginning either by saving or by cutting the Government expenditure because the Government is the greatest spender everywhere. If you were to save the money, then it should be started from the Government and the hon. Minister has done the very same thing, so I congratulate the hon. Minister.

Hon. Shri Ramaiah has already mentioned about the provision of Rs.500 crore to the National Calamity Contingency Fund. I want that this should be increased because the entire country is facing calamities after calamities every year. The hon. Minister and the hon. Prime Minister also know how difficult it is to meet the demands of various States like Orissa, which have lost thousands and thousands of crores of rupees because of a Super Cyclone or because of a drought and all that. So, I think, this sum of Rs.500 crore is not sufficient and whenever we get the opportunity, this should be increased.

Now, next comes the question of provision of subsidy to the Public Distribution System. It is a very good thing because the provision of subsidy to the poor is generally accepted everywhere. It is also accepted here. But my question is: does it reach the targeted persons? Generally, it does not reach. Let me make a point. In my district, Balasore, from where I come, the Collector was telling me that the number of people who remain below the poverty line is 73 per cent. The hon. Minister has told us several times that every time it is being reduced. Last year it was something like a review. Your report said that the people below the poverty line in India are something like 34 per cent. A new survey report said that it is going to come down to 27 per cent. But in my district which is supposed to be a prosperous district in Orissa, it is 73 per cent. Even in one block, it is 84 per cent. How does it happen? It happens only because we send the school teachers. A school teacher’s job is not only to teach the students but his job is also to go for census work, for preparation of ration cards, election duties and also to go for provision of enlisting the people who are below the poverty line. And he enlists everybody.

So, my suggestion to the hon. Minister is that this work of preparation of the BPL list should not be given to the school teachers. It should be given to some outside people, some NGOs or some reliable agency who can go and really find out who are the poor people in this country. Let me tell you, in our country, we are providing subsidy on food items to the tune of about Rs.20,000 crore. Instead of giving implicit subsidy, if we want to give the subsidy money to the poor people who are actually below the poverty line by dividing the subsidy money and send the money through money orders to each one of them, everybody will get Rs.5,000 every year. But does it reach them? So, the subsidy should be better targeted. That is my request to the hon. Finance Minister.

I thank him that he has provided Rs.300 crore for the modernisation of State Police because it is known everywhere in every country, specifically, in India that it is the State police which can deal with the menace of terrorism. You take the example of Punjab. In Punjab, it was not the Army nor the Para-military Force but it was the State police led by Shri K.P. S. Gill who could deal firmly with the terrorists and terrorism had to beat a hasty retreat. So, it is the State police which should be modernised, which should be given training, which should be given better arms so that we will be able to deal with the menace of naxalism, national casteism, private Senas and something like that. I thank the hon. Minister for that.

Then, let me come to Item No.50 for additional expenditure on national programme for nutrition support through primary education. Rs.210 crore has been given. My question again is: does it reach the real needy? In my area, I have found that in the coastal areas which are generally prosperous, no child eats it. So, it is actually the village people who sell it in black-market. They get money out of it. They utilise the money for some other purpose. This should be given. I do not deny it. But let it be given to the Scheduled Caste and Scheduled Tribe children. Why should it be given to everybody, and those who do not eat it?

And this money is being misutilised. So, my suggestion to the hon. Finance Minister is that this should also be considered. This is a very serious thing. I think that most of this money in this case is being swindled and so he should also see and ensure that it is better targeted and reaches the right children who actually do not get food in their house and who come to the school and just to have food and then to study.

And there is a provision for disinvetment. The money has been given. Additional item No. 54 is for additional assistance to bridge the gap in the resources for public sector undertakings. About that, we were discussing some time back. I will not go for discussion on public sector disinvestment. I will just mention one point.

Now, take the example of public sector undertakings. Only 24 of the public sector undertakings are listed in the stock market. So, suppose, anybody, let us say, any person in India would have deposited or purchased shares from these public sector listed undertakings in the share market. During the last ten years he would have got only a return of 2.4 per cent. Only 2.4 per cent! And if he would have purchased the shares from the 476 listed private companies – listed in the share market – how much return would he have got? He would have got 24 per cent, just ten times more! That is how our public sector undertakings are functioning in India and so I will appeal to the hon. Minister that he should know all that about what will happen to the people who are just working.

Just for the sake of some lakhs of people this is no way just to squander the public money, Rs.2,79000 crore. It cannot be squandered in this way, by borrowing money at the rate of l2 per cent, l3 per cent interest from the market and get a return of just l.8 per cent or being in minus.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I have just spoken for l0 minutes. You give me another five minutes.

So, my point is that this public sector disinvestment should be pursued very vigorously and there is a talk about slow down in economy. Yes, there is a slow down in economy. I do not want to talk about it. But this slow down in economy has happened. It has happened due to less than normal monsoon, high prices of petroleum products and the high costs of infrastructure and imports and oil imports. And talk of influx of imports, then also I come to the point of China because now there is a hue and cry about why we signed the WTO Agreement and now many of the hon. Members and many of the economists have talked in this country that as if by signing the WTO Agreement, by joining the GATT Agreement we are just going to the gallows. Actually, it is not a fact. The WTO is a consensus. The WTO is an opportunity. By joining the WTO, now I understand.

SHRI A.C. JOS (TRICHUR): You were the people who were opposing the Congress when the Congress joined the WTO. Now you are agreeing to it.

MR. CHAIRMAN : You continue.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : I agree because the foreign policy of a country and the economic policy of a country depends upon the need of the hour. And when I was not an MP I could not understand many things. But when I have become an MP and come to the ruling party, I have tried to understand what is in the interests of the country. But may I just put a counter question if you have understood it? You have probably understood it earlier and now you have tried to misunderstand it! MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.

SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : My point is we are competing with China which is not a member of the WTO. Then they want to become a global player. They want to become a member because now they are the fourth largest economy.

18.00 hrs. By 2000-2010, they want to be the second biggest economy; and by 2025, they want to be the biggest economy in the world so that they can dominate.

Now, the ASEAN countries are scared of `Chinese Tiger’. They want that India should also compete with China because only India is having the capacity to compete with China. So, when the ASEAN countries are trying, we should also grab this opportunity with both the hands. So, I would appeal to the hon. Minister that he should go in for the reforms at a very fast rate. He should go for very hard decisions because this is going to help this country. He should not be confused. Most of the time, India does not go for the practicability. Most of the time India goes for ideology. So, let us not go for the ideology. Let us go for the interests of the country. By doing this, this country is going to become a super power. So, the hon. Minister of Finance should go in for the reforms, for the disinvestment, for the right-sizing of the Government and for the expenditure cut. In this way, I think, we can compete with China in the near future.

Thank you.

सभापति महोदय : सभा की सहमति हो तो क्या सदन की कार्रवाई की अवधि काम समाप्त होने तक बढ़ाई जाए?

बहुत से माननीय सदस्य: जी हां।

SHRI A.C. JOS (TRICHUR): Sir, the discussion on Supplementary Grants is only routine. We cannot disapprove or we cannot say that we defeat the Supplementary Grants because this is an amount spent by the Government. But the only redeeming factor of this discussion is that it throws some light to the direction in which the Government goes.

1802 hours (Shri Shriniwas Patil in the Chair) Sir, only two or three months are left for the next Budget. The Budget is not only about the profit and loss account, but it shows the direction where it is going. It also gives an opportunity for the Government to give the direction to the economy. The Supplementary Grants, when you look at it, are only on amounts spent by the Government.

Sir, I am so pained to see that during the last eight or nine months, we have not had any public or general debate on the direction as to where our country should go. The President-elect in U.S., Mr.George Bush (Jr.), even before taking up his Presidency, has mentioned that one of his tasks is cutting the taxes. Furthermore, he said, `I want a national debate on the economic conditions of America.’ Our country is on a very unfortunate and unenviable situation that the public debate here in this country is: where the temple is to be built and where the mosque is to be demolished, etc. Sir, I am sorry to say that the Leader of this country, our beloved hon. Prime Minister, has asked for a national debate on conversion – conversion from one religion is necessary or another religion is not necessary. But, I am sorry, the poverty alleviation or the economic content of the country should be nationally debated and not conversion from one religion to another religion. Mr. Finance Minister, is there any national debate about the economic direction of this country?

You have been accusing the Congress Party quite often, saying bad things about them that commissions and omissions were there. Could you tell me have you ever launched any new schemes, after your assuming office, for the eradication of unemployment or alleviation of poverty? You know the situation of this country.

I am quoting from a speech of Dr. Selig Harrison. He is considered to be an India watcher. In a seminar in Peterson (New Jersey) on ‘Globalisation and the challenge to democracy’, he says:

"India’s economic liberalisation programme may have benefited the urban poor, but it has failed to address the problem of rural poverty, according to veteran India watcher Selig Harrison.

Mr. Harrison, who is associated with the noted Washington think tank, the Woodrow Wilson Centre said, ‘The biggest failure in India is the failure to address the problems of rural poor’.

Mr. Harrison, who was the main speaker at a conference here on ‘Globalisation and the challenge to democracy’ said that unlike in India, rural areas in China have been brought within the ambit of economic progress.

In India, rural poverty has increased since reforms started."

 

 Again he goes on to say, and you are all accusing the Congress! He says:

"Mr. Harrison was all praise for the Nehruvian model of economic growth which put emphasis on state control over infrastructural industries to offset monopolies. Despite some of its negative impacts, the ‘Nehru model created a base for industrial expansion that we see in India today’. "

 Instead of making provisions for alleviating poverty, our Government is thinking about where the temple is to be built and where the mosque is to be demolished! I would have been happier if the Prime Minister had mentioned that the main unfinished task in the country is unemployment. You know the position of unemployment, Sir. Unemployment is mounting every day. The confusion is confounded when the Prime Minister says that ten per cent or more of the Government servants are to be given voluntary retirement. He wants to downsize the Government servants also. That means, the employment which we have now, is going to be downed.

Even our Labour Ministry, in its appraisal, mentioned:

"According to the Labour Ministry estimates, ‘the total organised sector employment during 1996-97 has declined in both absolute and percentage terms by 30,000 jobs or 0.11 per cent mainly because of a sharp decline in public sector employment and decelerating private sector employment.

The Ministry is not optimistic about the future either, saying that going by the present trends of industrial production in the country, ‘there may be a sharper reduction in employment in the organised sector in the coming months."

 

 Government is the largest employer in this country. Unless the Government invests, employment will not be created. The latest employment statistics are that about 40 million unemployed people are there in the market. Forty million hands are unemployed! Unemployment is an acute problem which has assumed serious dimensions in recent years. To face this challenge, besides implementing several employment schemes and programmes, there is a greater need for the reorientation of education and training system so as to create more job opportunities. Is there any plan with this Government to invest more in education? Every now and then, the Finance Minister, the Prime Minister and the Disinvestment Minister speak of disinvestment, but what are they going to do with this money? When we started disinvestment, when Dr. Manmohan Singh mentioned it, he wanted to spend it for social welfare schemes and for education and health schemes. But what is the aim of this Government? Are they going to invest these Rs.10,000 crore for social welfare schemes or for education? For what purpose are they going to invest it? That question has been asked several times by everybody, so I am not going into it.

All these schemes had been formulated by the previous Government. The programmes, namely, Integrated Rural Development Programme, the Jawahar Rozgar Yojana, the Employment Assurance Scheme (EAS) in the rural areas and the Prime Minister’s Integrated Urban Poverty Eradication Programme were all initiated and started by the Congress Government. This Government has only changed the names of some of these programmes.

Sir, my only request to the Government is whether the Government would be prepared to evaluate the performance of these schemes or not. How many employment have these schemes generated so far? Routine evaluation of the schemes, of course, is taking place but statistically, employment generation is going down every year and more and more unemployment is coming to the fore. At least, these rural schemes need to be evaluated.

Sir, many hon. Members here have mooted the suggestion that Members of Parliament should be involved in these schemes. We all know that the money for these schemes are given to the State Governments. We do not know as to what is happening to that and in what heads they are being spent. But the desired result is not coming. My suggestion is that the Government has to give emphasis on this aspect.

Sir, what are our national priorities? I think, there are two priorities. In the 70s, the slogan Garibi Hatao was hogging the centre-stage. It is no more there now. We are now discussing about disinvestment, about temples, about mosques and about conversions. But we are not discussing Garibi Hatao or the problem of unemployment or our national priorities and national issues of economic importance.

Sir, the hon. Finance Minister has been giving a very rosy picture every day. The other day the hon. Finance Minister had been speaking in the FICCI and he said that he would be coming with a tax-friendly and investor-friendly Budget. Whatever be your expectation regarding the fiscal deficit, there has been a decline in the industrial growth to a miserable 5.1 per cent in the first half of this year compared to 16.2 per cent in the last quarter of 1995-96. This shows that the recession that began in November, 1996 has still not ended since this long period and with the threat of imports, there could be no doubt that the main single cause is simultaneous decline in public and private investment.

Sir, our economy is mainly an agricultural economy even today. What has been the investment in the agricultural sector? The whole House yesterday was unanimous on one issue and that was the issue of the farmers. Our farmers are in great difficulty everywhere. So, the Government should come forward at least in the next Budget with a considerable investment for the agriculture sector and for creation of more employment in the rural areas.

Sir, I support this Supplementary Demands for one reason and that is that the Finance Minister has allocated an amount of Rs. 44.85 crore for coconut growers and Rs. 5.5 crore for coconut plantations that have been affected by cyclones and Rs. 48.5 crore as financial assistance for control of mite.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, this matter, of course, does not pertain to you directly. But we, the MPs from Kerala urged upon the Minister of Agriculture to declare the Minimum Support Price for coconut. The very meaning of Keralam is `storehouse of kera’ and kera means coconut. So, coconut is our bread and butter. Just like rice is in Andhra Pradesh and wheat is in Punjab, coconut is our bread and butter. Earlier, we used to have six rupees for a coconut and now that price has come down to Rs. 1.50/-. I am happy that the Finance Minister has provided Rs. 44.85 crore for control of mite. But I doubt if more research is to be done and whether this is sufficient or not.

Sir, we all know that the State of Kerala is known for its rubber as well. We were getting Rs. 60/- some three years back for rubber but now it has come down to Rs. 20/- or Rs. 23/-. I understand that more pressure is being put on the Government against import of rubber.

I would request the Government to desist from importing rubber. Import of rubber is detrimental to Kerala and to Indian farmer.

Lastly, FACT is the mother of industries in Kerala. We do not have many industries in our State. FACT manufactures the best fertiliser; all its parameters are good; its productivity is good; and it is achieving all targets. Yet, it is incurring losses. It is happening because of the burden of interest on FACT. I do not know why the Fertiliser Minister has not acceded to sanctioning Rs.200 crore that has been asked for, as a one-time relief for FACT. Shri Suresh Prabhu, the Fertiliser Minister is sitting here.

MR. CHAIRMAN : He was the Minister of Fertilisers. He is not the Minister of Fertilisers now.

SHRI A.C. JOS : That is right. He is in the Ministry of Power now. I am sorry for the mistake. But, Sir, he knows about the problem as I have been discussing this with him.

I would request that a one-time relief for FACT be sanctioned. My last point is with regard to Mahila Pradhans in my State. It is like bringing money through small savings like Indira Vikas Patra and other schemes. The rate of interest for this has now been reduced from five per cent to four per cent. It is a very dangerous step because small savings are the backbone of the country’s economy. Mahila Pradhans used to get five per cent commission which has now been reduced to four per cent. I am given to understand that the Government is going to further reduce it to two and a half per cent. It will be a very bad step. If this is done, the whole of rural economy will be affected. I would request the Government to consider all these things. Thank you.

                 

SHRI TRILOCHAN KANUNGO (JAGATSINGHPUR): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I rise to support the Second Supplementary Demands for Grants presented by the hon. Finance Minister.

At the outset, let me congratulate the hon. Finance Minister for his wise and bold step in bringing the new legislation, which has not been introduced but has been circulated, the Fiscal Responsibility and Budget Management Bill, 2000. The founding fathers of our Constitution, in articles 292 and 293, have cautioned us and provided the arrangement of a limit on borrowing of the Centre or the States. Fifty years after, the Finance Minister is going to bring this legislation and for that I congratulate him. If anybody should be remembered today more than anybody else, it is Dr. B.R. Ambedkar. He said, ‘If Parliament does not limit the borrowing, it is the fault of the Parliament.’ That means the Government in power.

The hon. Finance Minister expects elimination of revenue deficit by 31st March, 2006. I think it would be impossible. If you see the figures of the last three years, you will find that the revenue deficit has been going higher and higher. In 1998-99, the revenue deficit was Rs.67,909 crore. In 1999-2000 revised estimates, it was Rs.73,532 crore. In 2000-01 budget estimates, it is Rs.77,425 crore. So, the revenue deficit has been going up instead of coming down. In such a situation, how can it be contained and how can the pre-1978-79 position be reached? I am surprised at this claim.

Till 1978-79, the Union Budget might never have dreamt of a revenue deficit budget barring the year 1971-72 when Bangladesh war had to be financed and the refugee influx had to be taken care of.

There was no deficit on the revenue account. It is not that everything was hidden upto 1978-79. But the fiscal health of the country was all right. If the fiscal health of the country, or the Government will not be all right, then the economic development can never take place.

So, the first thing is to bring back a good fiscal health. I am talking about the fiscal health. I am not talking about the fiscal deficit, because this is a new connotation brought into our system of economic parallels, after reforms, liberalisation and globalisation. But revenue deficit should be contained and there should be revenue surpluses to finance the capital budget. The State Governments should be advised that under the article 293, they should also follow suit.

I also congratulate the hon. Finance Minister for another thing. The performance of the revenue receipts during the first six months of the fiscal 2000-01 is good, though not very good. The tax revenue during the first six months has been worked out to be 45 per cent of the Budget estimates for the current financial year. The figure for the corresponding year in the previous financial year was 41 per cent of the Budget estimates. It is a marginal increase. But it is an increase. It is a good performance, though not very good performance.

Similarly, so far as the non-tax revenue collection is concerned, upto October, 2000, it was 56 per cent of the Budget estimates compared to the 55 per cent in the corresponding period of last year. It is marginally more than that of the last year. So, it is also a good performance, for which the hon. Finance Minister is to be congratulated.

Sir, I do not want to go into the details. Notwithstanding the Reforms, ours is an incremental Budget. Every year, five per cent to ten per cent increase takes place. The way, we are going so far as the expenditure and receipts are concerned, we have not made a headway in the matter of the Budget preparation in the fiscal discipline and fiscal management.

I have a few suggestions to make. The other day, the hon. Finance Minister had expressed his concern over the debt burden of the States. The debt burden of the States is at a staggering height. I can only mention about three States – Uttar Pradesh, Bihar and Orissa. So far as their debt burden rate is concerned, the interest payment and capital repayment taking together is about more than 70 per cent of their own State’s revenue. It has gone upto such a large extent. They are incurring expenditure and incurring losses. They are borrowing in order to meet the revenue deficit, in order to meet the current expenditure and non-developmental expenditure. That is the position there. They are incurring losses to make the interest payment on capital repayment. I do not want to include the capital repayment here in the Capital Budget because it is not wise to say it. Whatever we are borrowing as capital, that is being eaten out, that is for revenue consumption. That is not for building of capital or for capital growth.

Therefore, the capital repayment and the interest payment should be taken together. For the three States of U.P., Bihar and Orissa, some re-organisation should be made so that the interest payment and capital repayment do not come to more than 20 per cent of their State’s own revenues.

I had raised a question at the time this House considered the States’ reorganisation Bills. I would also like to point it out now. The Bills were for reorganisation of three backward States – U.P., Bihar and Madhya Pradesh. They were reorganised into six States but the House could not get to know about the division of assets and liabilities between the mother States and the new States. The House should be informed of this. Unless and until the debt burden of these States are taken care of, poverty will never go away whatever you might do.

I have been time and again talking about the revision of coal royalty. The Eleventh Finance Commission has given a categorical recommendation. This new Bill has come as a result of the recommendation of the Eleventh Finance Commission for limiting the debts under Article 292. Similarly, the Finance Commission has observed on page 29:

"In the case of coal, the last revision was done in October, 1994 and specific rates were fixed for different grades of coal. The prices of coal have been revised several times."

 This means, the prices of coal have gone up by 60 per cent but not a single paisa has been raised so far as royalty is concerned. I do not understand how and why the hon. MPs from Bihar and Madhya Pradesh are not raising this point. The hon. MPs from West Bengal would not mind this because they have their cess which has been protected under Article 372, because of which they are getting a lot. But the three States of Madhya Pradesh, Orissa and Bihar are suffering.

The Finance Commission has recommended:

"We recommend that the royalty rates on minerals be revised regularly (this means once in three years) and the decision about the revision of the rates of royalty be taken well before the date on which the revision falls due so that it could be notified immediately after the completion of the period as provided under the law. In case the process of revision is not completed by the date the new revision is due, the State should be entitled to get compensation."

 From 1997, till date, for three years, compensation should be paid to the coal bearing and coal producing States.

There is also another recommendation of the Finance Commission. The fixation of royalty rates is done by the Ministry concerned. For the sake of transparency and fairness, the task of making recommendations on royalty rates should be entrusted to an independent body. Of course, mineral royalty has been revised. But I do not understand why the chromite royalty has not been revised. Today, 98 per cent of the country’s chromite comes from Orissa and chromite is a precious ore. The royalty rate for chromite has not been revised. It has been kept at the same level. It should be revised upwards.

My last point is this. I have always been telling this point. It is about Central Sales Tax. It should either be done away with or it should be included in the divisible pool. I had made this point at the time of Constitution (Amendment) Bill also. It is done by amending article 269 of the Constitution, in 1956. To the detriment of the backward States, it was to favour the developed States only. Therefore, to please and to appease those backward States, in 1982, another amendment was made, by way of having consignment tax. Article 269 was again amended. But it has never been known whether it is amended by this House. There was consignment tax on finished raw materials. So, on them, there will be some tax.

There was also another demand. When the States generating electricity, evacuate electricity to other States, there has to be some tax so that the backward States will get some benefit of money.

I want to add one more point, which I made at the time of passing the Central Road Fund Bill. Now, there is one per cent surcharge on one litre of petrol or diesel. Instead of that, it should be made on advalorem basis; it should be made as one per cent so that more funds will be available for road development.

With these words, I support the Supplementary Demands for Grants.

       

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह (वैशाली):सभापति महोदय, माननीय सदस्य श्री प्रियरंजन दासमुंशी ने एक अखबार का रैफरैंस देते हुए अपने भाषण की शुरुआत की थी और कहा कि माननीय वित्त मंत्री जी का वित्त मंत्रालय ठीक काम नहीं कर रहा है क्योंकि वे यहां समय नहीं दे रहे हैं, ज्यादा समय बिहार में देते हैं।

…( व्यवधान )

वित्त मंत्री (श्री यशवन्त सिन्हा):कहां कहा है।

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : अखबार में पढ़ कर कहा है।

श्री यशवन्त सिन्हा : उन्होंने यह कहा ही नहीं।

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : ये बिहार में कितना समय देते हैं, हमको जानकारी नहीं है।…( व्यवधान )

वित्त मंत्रालय पर हम बाद में बोलेंगे पहले बिहार की बात कहेंगे। …( व्यवधान )हम पचास सांसद प्रधान मंत्री जी से मिले थे। बिहार की जो आर्थिक स्थिति भयावह होने वाली है, बंटवारे के बाद झारखंड प्लस पन्द्रह सौ करोड़ रुपये का रिवैन्यू फायदे में जाएगा और बिहार को माइनस ३०० करोड़ रुपये का रिवैन्यू डैफीसिट होगा मतलब वहां विकास का काम कुछ नहीं होने वाला और वेतन भी नहीं मिलेगा, अनुमान करने से ऐसा लगता है। इस सब बात के लिए पचास सांसदों ने मिल कर मीटिंग की और प्रधान मंत्री जी के यहां रिप्रैजैन्टेशन दी। जब प्रधान मंत्री जी के यहां पहुंचे तो उन्होंने कहा कि वित्त मंत्री जी से मुलाकात की है। हम नहीं जानते वह कागज वित्त मंत्री जी के यहां पहुंचा है या नहीं लेकिन उसमें कहा गया है कि बिहार पर जो २२,००० करोड़ रुपये का कर्जा बकाया है, जब तक वह माफ नहीं होगा, बिहार नहीं बचेगा। सारा आर्थिक विश्लेषण करने के बाद कहा गया है कि जब तक बिहार को स्पैशल कैटेगरी राज्य का दर्जा नहीं दिया जाएगा, जनता बंटवारा करने वाले लोगों की खबर लेगी। किस हालत में लोगों को पहुंचा दिया है। पहले भी ठीक हालत में नहीं था, अब भी ठीक हालत में नहीं है। बंटवारे के बाद स्पैशल कैटेगरी दिए बिना और बकाया कर्जा माफ किए बिना उसका काम नहीं चलने वाला है। प्रधान मंत्री जी ने वित्त मंत्री जी पर बहुत भरोसा किया है। उन्होंने जिज्ञासा की है। वित्त मंत्री जी से मिले हैं या नहीं।

हम संसद में, सर्वोच्च पंचायत में वित्त मंत्री जी से दरख्वास्त कर रहे हैं, ये बिहार को हमसे कम नहीं जानते हैं, ज्यादा ही जानते होंगे। सारा हिसाब इनको मालूम है, लेकिन जब से ये वित्त मंत्री बनी हैं, बिहार के साथ न्याय तो नहीं ही हुआ है, दुश्मन जैसा व्यवहार हो रहा है। सबूत के तौर पर ११वें वित्त आयोग की रिपोर्ट के विषय में माननीय कानूनगो साहब पढ़ रहे थे। ११वें वित्त आयोग ने कहा था कि पंचायत के मद में १२५ करोड़ रुपये सालाना करके ४००-५०० करोड़ रुपया हमारा केन्द्र पर बकाया है, नहीं मिला। कहा गया कि पंचायत के चुनाव नहीं हुए। अब वहां पंचायत के चुनाव होने जा रहे हैं और…( व्यवधान ) २३ साल से चुनाव नहीं हुआ। १९७८ में हमारे ही स्वर्गीय कर्पूरी ठाकुर मुख्यमंत्री थे, तब वहां पर पंचायत का चुनाव हुआ था…( व्यवधान )

श्री राधा मोहन सिंह (मोतिहारी):भाजपा के श्री जगबन्धु अधिकारी वहां पंचायत मंत्री थे, इसके कारण चुनाव हुए, नहीं तो उस समय भी आप चुनाव नहीं होने देते।

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : अब सुशील मोदी जी भाजपा के नेता और विपक्ष के नेता हैं, वे कहते हैं कि वहां पर कैसे चुनाव हो रहा है। वहां चुनाव का एलान हुआ, सारी प्रक्रिया शुरू हो गई तो उनका प्राण छूट रहा है। कहते हैं कि चुनाव कैसे हो रहा है।

संविधान में कहा था कि सभी पदों पर आरक्षण होगा, महिला, आदिवासी और अनुसूचित जाति का सभी पदों पर आरक्षण होगा और हाई कोर्ट ने कहा कि मुखिया, प्रमुख, जिला प्रमुख सिंगल पोस्ट है, उस पर आरक्षण नहीं होगा। राज्य सरकार के सामने संकट था कि हाई कोर्ट के मुताबिक जायें या संविधान के मुताबिक जायें। हाई कोर्ट ने कहा कि मुखिया पद पर, एकल पद पर आरक्षण नहीं होगा और सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने कहा कि चुनाव में आगे बढि़ये। अब वहां चुनाव हो रहा है तो बी.जे.पी. के लोग बाप-बाप कर रहे हैं।

श्री राधा मोहन सिंह: हाई कोर्ट ने कहा कि एकल पद पर नहीं होगा तो इन्होंने मुखिया के पद को भी एकल मान लिया, प्रमुख को भी एकल मान लिया, जबकि जिले में २० प्रमुख होने वाले हैं, जिले में ४०० मुखिया चुने जाने वाले हैं। न्यायालय ने एकल पद की बात की है, मुखिया पद की बात नहीं की है।

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : मुखिया और प्रमुख ब्लाक का एकल पद है।

सभापति महोदय : दोनों पक्षों को एक बात ध्यान में रखनी चाहिए कि डिस्कशन सप्लीमेंटरी डिमांड्स पर चल रहा है या पंचायत इलैक्शन पर चल रहा है। जरा इसको ध्यान में रखिये।

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : हाई कोर्ट ने सीधे कहा है कि एकल पद है, इस पर आरक्षण नहीं होगा, इसलिए आरक्षण नहीं हुआ। अब चुनाव हो रहा है, इसीलिए हम दरख्वास्त करते हैं कि हमारा जो ५०० करोड़ रुपया दसवें वित्त आयोग का बकाया है, वह दे दिया जाये, चूंकि इसमें बिहार का कसूर नहीं है, बिहार सरकार का कसूर नहीं है, बिहार की जनता का कसूर नहीं है। दूसरे जो ११वें वित्त आयोग ने पंचायत मद में फ्रैश अनुशंसा की है, उस रुपये का भी भुगतान किया जाये।

वहां हर साल नेपाल अन्तर्राष्ट्रीय नदियों के चलते बाढ़ से तबाही होती है। इस साल भी तबाही हुई है, ७-८ सौ करोड़ रुपये की बर्बादी हुई है। एक मैमोरेण्डम आ गया है, लेकिन एन.एऩ.सी.एफ. एक्ट इन्होंने नहीं बनाया, इसलिए कोई विशेष मदद नहीं दी गई है, इसलिए मदद देने की कृपा करें। वहां का किसान तबाही में है, लेकिन हमारा भारत सरकार पर आरोप है कि ये भेदभाव करते हैं, पिक एंड चूज करते हैं, मुंहदेखी करते हैं, फेवरेटिज्म करते हैं। जहां पर इनकी हुकूमत है, पंजाब में इनके सपोर्टर हैं, हरियाणा और आन्ध्रा प्रदेश में इनके सपोर्टर हैं, लेकिन चूंकि बिहार इनके खिलाफ है, इसीलिए बिहार के किसानों के साथ भेदभाव वाला व्यवहार किया जा रहा है। सबूत के रूप में १९९७-९८ में १२२ सैण्टर्स एफ.सी.आई. ने खोले थे और ये अभी २२-२३ के बीच में झूल रहे हैं। उस समय धान का उत्पादन २२ हजार टन हुआ था, अब ये कहते हैं कि धान की कुटाई नहीं हुई। धान की कुटाई नहीं हुई तो क्या आप किसान की कुटाई करोगे?

यह एफ.सी.आई. की जिम्मेदारी थी, क्यों नहीं धान की कुटाई की। यह सरकार बिहार को बर्बाद करने पर तुली हुई है, मुझे इसका अफसोस है। वहां पर धान कुटाई का काम इनका था, लेकिन ये किसान की कुटाई कर रहे हैं। ये कहते हैं कि राज्य की एजेंसी धान की प्रोक्योरमेंट करे। वह कहां से खरीदे, उसके पास पैसा ही नहीं है। १९९७-९८ में १२२ सेंटर एफ.सी.आई. ने खोले थे, उसके बाद एक भी नहीं खोला। वहां किसान अपना धान जला रहा है। किसानों के साथ अन्याय हो रहा है, उसका सुधार किए बिना कोई उपाय नहीं है। बिहार जब भी उठ-उठ कर खड़ा होता है, तो दिल्ली हिल जाती है, दिल्ली डगमगा जाती है और गिर जाती है, यह इतिहास है।

पी.डी.एस. को इन्होंने खत्म कर दिया है। कोई भी हिम्मत करके यह बता दे कि पी.डी.एस. को रखा है, उसे तो खत्म कर दिया है। गावं के बाजार में गेहूं का भाव पांच रुपए किलो है और पी.डी.एस. में इन्होंने साढ़े आठ रुपए किलो रखा है। बी.पी.एल. के लिए बाजार में पांच रुपए किलो गेहूं को कोई पूछ नहीं रहा। इसलिए इनका ४ करोड़ ६० लाख टन अनाज पड़ा-पड़ा सड़ रहा है। आपने भाव घटा कर साढ़े छ: रुपए किलो कर दिया, लेकिन कोई नहीं खरीद रहा। पी.डी.एस. को आपने खत्म कर दिया है। आप बताएं कि ४ करोड़ ६० लाख टन अनाज का क्या होगा?

यहां विद्युत मंत्री जी बैठे हैं। आर.इ.सी. ने कहा कि बिहार में विद्युतीकरण ८०० वर्ष में होगा। १९८९ में ७९ करोड़ रुपया आर.इ.सी. ने दिया। उसका सूद, दंड सूद वगैरह मिलाकर ४२१ करोड़ रुपए हो गए हैं। ये कहते हैं कि पहले वह पैसा लौटाओ, फिर आगे देंगे। उस कर्जे को माफ करने के अलावा कोई उपाय नहीं है। देश भर में ६२०० करोड़ रुपए आर.इ.सी. के द्वारा दिए गए। बिहार को विगत दो वर्षों में एक पैसा भी नहीं मिला। उसका दसवां हिस्सा भी हमारा मान लिया जाए तो बिहार को ६२० करोड़ रुपए मिलने चाहिए, लेकिन एक पैसा नहीं मिला। जब से इनका राज आया है, एक पैसा नहीं दिया। १९९८-९९ में और १९९९-२००० में दो बरस में सिर्फ शून्य ही मिला है। जबकि तीन हजार करोड़ रुपए एक साल में और एक साल में दो हजार करोड़ रुपए दिए गए हैं। इसलिए कर्ज माफी के लिए मैं सरकार से मांग करता हूं।

वित्त मंत्री जी यहां बैठे हैं। बिहार में गरीब आदमी ने सी.डी.एस. के जरिए ३७,००० करोड़ रुपए बैंकों में जमा कराया, आप उसको इन्वैस्ट कराते। जब बंटवारा नहीं हुआ था तब २२ प्रतिशत था, अब बंटवारे के बाद १७ प्रतिशत है। हमारे ३७,००० करोड़ रुपए को लेकर आप देश चलाते हो और बिहार को कंगाल करते हो, यह बर्दाश्त नहीं होने वाला है। इसलिए सी.डी.एस. के पैसे को वहां इन्वैस्ट करें।

एन.डी.ए. ने अपने राष्ट्रीय एजेंडा में कहा कि हम बेरोजगारी दूर करेंगे। इनके प्रधान मंत्री जी ने कहा कि दस प्रतिशत कर्मचारियों को हटाया जाए और ये हटाने का काम कर रहे हैं। ये क्या रोजगार देंगे, ये तो बेरोजगारी बढ़ाने वाले हैं। इनकी आर्थिक व्यवस्था चौपट है। ११वें वित्त आयोग ने जो कहा, मैं उसकी मांग कर रहा हूं कि बिहार को बकाया कर्ज माफ करने के अलावा और कोई उपाय नहीं है। हम ५० सांसद हैं, लेकिन हमारी बात नहीं सुनी जाती। इनके यहां दस सांसदों के दल वालों की बात मान ली जाती है। यह सरकार बिहार सरकार को दुश्मन मानकर उसे बर्बाद कर रही है। बिहार सरकार का कुछ नहीं बिगाड़ सके, लेकिन बिहार को बर्बाद जरूर किया, इसके लिए हमें अफसोस है। इतना बर्बाद किया कि उस राज्य का बंटवारा कर दिया। उसके बाद हिन्दुस्तान का वह भूभाग जो पहले से ही आर्थिक रूप से पिछड़ा था, बंटवारे के बाद और खराब हालत में आ गया। सारा कसूर केन्द्र का है। हमारे साथ न्याय नहीं, अन्याय नहीं, बल्कि दुश्मन वाला व्यवहार हो रहा है।

अब बर्दाश्त की सीमा से बाहर है, इसलिए मैं आपके माध्यम से सरकार को सावधान करना चहता हूं कि आप सरकार चला रहे हैं लेकिन बिखराव के चलते न तो सहयोगी दल आपको अकल सिखाने के लिए तैयार है क्योंकि मिड टर्म पौल में जाने की स्थिति में वे नहीं हैं, इसीलिए यह सरकार चल रही है। लेकिन आगे जो समय आने वाला है, उसमें किसान के मुद्दे पर ही आपको राज से वे लोग बाहर करेंगे और उसके बाद जो सरकार किसानों और गरीबों को आगे बढ़ा सके, ऐसी सरकार बनेगी।

विद्युत मंत्री (श्री सुरेश प्रभु): बिहार के बारे में बात करने के लिए बिहार की चीफ मनिस्टर कब आ रही हैं? …( व्यवधान )

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :जब आप लोग समय दे दीजिएगा, मुख्य मंत्री हाजिर हो जाएंगी।

DR. NITISH SENGUPTA (CONTAI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I thank you for giving me this opportunity. I rise to support the proposals contained in the Finance Minister’s supplementary grants and the second batch of supplementary demands, including 27 grants and appropriation, aggregating Rs.2639.09 crore.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, I must congratulate the Finance Minister on the way the finances of this country have been administered in the last two years. A lot of distortions have crept in during the previous decades in the financial administration, but slowly, surely and steadily attempts have been made, for the first time, to do away with some of these distortions, through legislative process, and also otherwise. In fact, I was going to speak on the failure of the Government to curb the consumption expenditure. But I noticed that he has claimed credit for savings. So, I will not touch upon that point at this stage. But while appreciating generally the good management of the finances, I should like briefly to express some areas of concern.

First of all, I do not notice enough of indication to deal with the real problem of the farmers in this country, which has been agitating this House for the last few days. Everybody knows that the farmer’s costs of inputs have increased, and therefore price of procurement of paddy, rice, etc. is very high. Godowns are absolutely flooded with surplus foodgrains. So, therefore, market price has dropped down very much. Many of the farmers are not able to sell their produce. Some of them are even committing suicides. It is a pathetic story. On the one hand, production in industry has increased, industrial growth is taking places, and services sector is increasing phenomenally, but on the other hand, agriculture has shown, after years, some signs of stagnation. So, my request to my friend, the Finance Minister would be that please give enough attention as to how best to remove this phenomenon of stagnation in agriculture. Once again, make agriculture growing up by leaps and bounds in geometrical progression so that country can really tide over this crisis.

At the same time, I do not understand as to what is the difficulty in really launching export of foodgrains on a massive scale so that the godowns can be free and once again the Food Corporation can procure. I do recommend that the Government follow a massive strategy of exporting of foodgrains. I know that it is very much unconventional but since we are in an age of globalisation and our foreign exchange position is quite comfortable, I think, we should be able to prepare for a situation where we should be able to import and export foodgrains as and when necessary.

The second aspect of concern would be as to how to generate demand. Demand has been stagnating somewhat over the last few days. I do not agree with my friend, Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi that the economy is in a state of chaos.

On the other hand, I think, the economic fundamentals are very sound, but within that there are some disturbing signs. One of them is that there is a real deceleration. Not enough goods are being sold and so many of the companies are facing difficulties. In going through the reasons for this, one reason is that we are facing a kind of second Chinese invasion today, in the sense that all varieties of consumer goods are coming from China in very large quantities and at very low prices. We have to, once again, ask ourselves as to why we have made our goods cost very high and why we cannot sell our goods as cheaper as the Chinese do manage to sell, although by sending them across the Himalayas. This is a problem which has to be sorted out.

I do believe in free import. But on the other hand – let me say very frankly – even in quite a number of areas where the WTO stipulations would normally have applied after two to three years, they were imposed much ahead of schedule and at rates much less than what the WTO stipulation actually had envisaged. As a result, today we can get almost any consumer goods from anywhere in the world and that is why, our people, our small-scale industries and also the large industry are suffering very much. Added to that is the recession in the Central Asian Republics and because of that, they, alongwith the South East Asian countries, are dumping a variety of goods on the Indian market. I do not think our anti-dumping machinery has really been successful in tackling this phenomenon. We have to give some serious thought as to how we can generate more demand.

While on the subject, again we have to deal with this problem of old industry and new industry, old economy and new economy. The new economy is growing based on software and information technology and the old economy or the old industry is, somehow or other, stagnating. This is not a point to be worried about. I would, any day, suggest that there is no point in lamenting and saying that the old industrial units, which have lost their very justification, should be allowed to continue through artificial respiration. That should not be the solution. If we look at the totality of the economy, one notices that there is a tremendous shift taking place on account of changes in technology. Whereas employment, in the formal sense, in the organised sector is dimishing, a lot of employment has taken place in other areas like self-employment, unorganised sector etc. Therefore, if the Prime Minister has said that he would reduce 10 per cent of the jobs, I think, that is very encouraging, because by reducing 10 per cent of the jobs, the amount of money that we spend on them can be spent in newer industries which will create newer jobs in a different type of situation.

SHRI KODIKUNNIL SURESH (ADOOR): Are you welcoming it?

DR. NITISH SENGUPTA : Yes; I am welcoming it. But I am not saying that people should be shown the door. They should be allowed to take their salary sitting at home, because there is no work for them. It is much cheaper for the Government to pay them salary for sitting at home than making them come everyday at 8.30 a.m. or 9.00 a.m. to office, factory etc., because again that involves a lot of expenditure.

Sir, a couple of years ago, in the city of Mumbai, Hindustan Lever and Indian Aluminium closed down their factories. But there was not a murmur. The way the management discussed it with the unions and settled all their problems, nobody raised any hue and cry about the whole thing and nobody knew about it. That is the whole point and, here, again my request to the Government would be that in any case of restructuring or reorganisation they should not keep the trade unions out. It is a gigantic decision in which the management, the Government and the labour are all equal partners. They must all sit together and work out a solution.

So, I would recommend that there is no point in begging the question and saying ‘no’; where a larger industry is running with a lot of surplus labour, those surplus labour must be given their salary for coming to the workshop and not doing any work. Rather than adding to the bill, it is much better that they are allowed to sit at home and take their salary there, until they retire in the normal course.

Sir, a lot of new jobs are being created in newer field. Here, I would like to quote the example of the Government of Singapore where they spend a lot of money on skill development, developing those skills which are needed by the economy, because one of the biggest problem today is the total mismatch between the conventional type of education system and the type of jobs and opportunities which are being created with the changes in the economy.

There is a total mismatch. We are creating graduates, post-graduates and so many other formally educated people, but they are not really employable in the new economy in which employment opportunities are being created. Therefore, this mismatch has to be ended.

On demand generation, once again I should say that attention has to be paid to infrastructure. One is happy about the fact that after a long time a lot of attention is given to the road development and all that. I think, basically, we have to improve infrastructure and improve at a very fast pace and in a very spectacular pace. One is very sad to see the way countries which were much behind India, not long ago, several years ago have left India far behind and gone ahead in terms of infrastructure.

Today, India is very much backward in terms of infrastructure, whether you call it power or water supply or roads or any other thing. Therefore, infrastructure needs to be given a lot of attention. That will also promote demand generation in a lot of industries like cement, steel and so on and so forth.

Then with regard to import, I think, a serious thought should be given about whether Shri Sinha""s predecessor was not unduly hasty in introducing the WTO requirements and all that and whether there is any way by which you can retrace our steps to the extent that is possible.

There is also the question of falling rupee. This is a strange perplexing phenomenon why it happened, but the only thing I can say that a couple of months ago when we went in for new millennium bond, it was common experience that a lot of bond was changed over into dollar, sent abroad as gift and invested in the Indian rupee, of course it is our foreign exchange. There is nothing drastically wrong, but this is a very interesting situation which took place. But falling rupee is a matter which should also engage Government""s serious attention.

Shri Dasmunsi quoted the example of Lafarge. I do not think that is correct because I do not think that Lafarge came without any inflow of foreign investment at all. That is not my impression but if that is true then there is something to be looked for and we must ensure that wherever foreign direct investment takes place, they come back with a lot of solid foreign funds, which becomes a part of Government of India""s foreign exchange reserve.

Now, the last point that I would say is the question of capital market where I think, Mr. Chairman, we have failed the small shareholders in a very miserable way. Once again, the Finance Minister is not responsible because the sins took place much earlier. Actually, it was the introduction of free pricing in the Indian capital market, for which the Indian capital market was not prepared which was the real villain of the piece in the early 90s. The Indian small shareholder and small investors just fell a victim to greedy merchant bankers and dishonest company promoters and lost their money. They literally deserted the stock market and it is the desertion of the stock market by the small investor which is largely responsible for today""s dismal phenomenon.

Speculation is taking place. There is nothing wrong in speculation, but as Lord Keans said that ""speculation should be a bubble in a chain of production, but where the speculation becomes the chain and the production becomes the bubble, then the country stock market becomes like a casino."" Now, our stock market is yet not like a casino but basically it has become a closed shop dominated by the foreign institutional investor and the Indian Financial Institutions and the small investor, the common investor, who really was the King of the market has totally deserted. We have to bring him back. Our primary issues or socalled public issues have become really a series of private placement, participated only by the merchant bankers and the institutions and the common investor is nowhere in the scene. We have to do everything to bring him back to the capital market because he is the King of the market.

With these expressions, I think, we must do something. I hope the hon. Minister will provide adequate funds for floods also, especially keeping in mind the West Bengal case. The fact that the present State Government has mismanaged their finances in certain respects and there are allegations of diversion, should not detract the fact that the people need relief and the flood affected people have to be given it. They should not be made to suffer for the sins of the Government. बजे श्री तिलकधारी प्रसाद सिंह (कोडरमा):सभापति महोदय, माननीय वित्त मंत्री जी द्वारा सप्लीमेंटरी डिमांड्स लाई गई हैं, मैं उनके संबंध में बोलने के लिये खड़ा हुआ हूं।

इसमें एक डिमांड कृषि के सबंध में है जो अच्छी व्यवस्था की गई है। जो राज्य साइक्लोन से प्रभावित हुये हैं, उन्हें कुछ रिलीफ दिये जाने की व्यवस्था की गई है। मंत्री जी को मालूम है कि बिहार में बाढ़ बराबर आती रहती है। मेरे झारखंड राज्य के साहिबगंज, देवघर और गरिडीह जिलों में बाढ़ का प्रकोप इस बार रहा है, भारी वर्षा के कारण सड़कें टूट गई हैं। किसान खरीफ की फसल नहीं लगा सके हैं और जो लगी है, वह भी बरबाद हो गई है। मेरा निवेदन है कि यदि इस संबंध में कुछ नहीं कर पाये हों तो कृपया उनके लिये कुछ करें ताकि उन किसानों को भी राहत मिल सके। जहां तक रबी फसल का सवाल है, बहुत कम मात्रा में लग पाई है और जो लगी है, वह बरबाद हो चुकी है। उन किसानों के लिये भी कुछ व्यवस्था की जाये।

सभापति महोदय, केन्द्र सरकार की ओर से जितनी योजनायें चल रही हैं, अच्छी हैं। कुछ योजनाय़ें पूर्व की सरकारों द्वारा चालू की गई थी और आज इस सरकार ने भी जारी रखी हुई है। उन योजनाओं को रिव्यु करने की आवश्यकता है। सरकार इस बात का पता करे कि जो यहां से स्कीम्स जा रही हैं, वे सही ढंग से चल पा रही हैं या नहीं? मेरा तजुर्बा है कि ग्रामीण योजनाओं का क्रियान्वयन करने के लिये जो बैंक हैं, वे को-आप्रेट नहीं कर रहे हैं। इससे स्वर्ण ग्रामीण योजना प्रभावित हो रही है। मेरे छोटा नागपुर क्षेत्र में इसकी एचीवमेंट कम हैं। मेरा निवेदन है कि इन बैंकों को इस बात के लिये हिदायत करें कि जो योजनायें नहीं चल पा रही हैं, उन्हें पूरा करें।

सभापति महोदय, ग्रामों में मलियन वैल्स नाम की योजना चालू थी जिसे अब बंद कर दिया गया है। यह योजना झारखंड राज्य के कई जिलों के लिये लाभदायक रहेगी, इसे पुन: चालू किया जाये। पूर्वोत्तर राज्यों में बिजली के लिये फंड्स की व्यवस्था की गई है, यह अच्छी बात है लेकिन आप जानते हैं कि बिहार या झारखंड में बिजली की बुरी हालत है। २०-३० किलोमीटर पर ब्लाक पड़ते हैं और एक गांव ४ किलोमीटर दूर पड़ता है। यह सब आदिवासी इलाका है। इनमें बिजली देने के लिये धन की व्यवस्था करें ताकि सुधार हो सके।

सभापति महोदय, मध्यान्ह भोजन संबंधी अच्छी योजना है लेकिन शिक्षक बंटवारा करने में समय लगा देते हैं और संरक्षक भी चाहते हैं कि लड़कों की संख्या बढ़े। इस बात की व्यवस्था की जाये कि बच्चों को ठीक ढंग से मध्यान्ह भोजन मिले तथा धन का उचित उपयोग किया जा सके।

सभापति महोदय, डिमांड में एम.पी.लैड्स के लिये अच्छी बात कही गई है लेकिन दो करोड़ रुपया बहुत कम है। विकास के नाम पर पैसा कम पड़ता है। सड़कों की बात की जाती है। मैं चाहता हूं कि एम.पी. के क्षेत्र में ३०-४० किलोमीटर सड़क के लिये धन उपलब्ध कराया जाये ताकि एम.पी. उनका सदुपयोग कर सकें।

सभापति जी, इस वित्तीय वर्ष के तीन महीने बाकी रह गये हैं। प्रधानमंत्री की रोड्स योजना में किस जगह का चयन कैसे करेंगे, अभी तक पता ही नहीं है। मेरा निवेदन है कि समय की कमी को देखते हुये जल्दी ही इस योजना में सड़कों का चयन किया जाये ताकि तीन माह में बचे पैसे का उपयोग हो सके। अभी रघुवंश बाबू कह रहे थे कि बिहार और झारखंड की बहुत बातें की जाती रही हैं। इस संदर्भ में बिहार के लिये जो फंड्स देते हैं, उसके अंतर्गत ग्रामीण योजनायें पूरी नहीं करा पाये हैं।

झारखंड नया राज्य बना है, उसे हिसाब-किताब की पूरी जानकारी देने में समय लगेगा। इसलिए इस राज्य को छूट दें कि जो हिसाब-किताब बिहार सरकार से आना है, यदि वह नहीं आये तो भी इस राज्य को फंड रिलीज कर दें। यह नया राज्य है, अभी उसे पैसे की बहुत जरूरत है, अभी उसे डेवलपमैंट के लिए पैसे की बहुत अधिक आवश्यकता है। इस बारे में मैं आपसे अपील करता हूं और मैं चाहता हूं कि आप इस बारे में सोचें कि किस तरह से झारखंड राज्य की सहायता की जाए। लोग कहते हैं कि वहां बहुत रिसोर्सेज हैं, लेकिन वह सब मार्च माह के बाद की बात है। लेकिन मार्च तक क्या होगा, इस पर सोचने की जरूरत है।

१९०६ बजे (श्री पी.एच. पांडियन पीठासीन हुए) सभापति महोदय, अंत में कहना चाहता हूं कि आपने इस बात पर बहुत जोर दिया है कि पुलिस व्यवस्था में कैसे सुधार किया जाए। यह बहुत अच्छी बात है और इसकी बहुत आवश्यकता भी है। झारखंड राज्य में कानून और व्यवस्था की स्थिति को कंट्रोल करने के लिए यह बहुत जरूरी है। हाल ही में झारखंड राज्य के बोकारो जिले के कुरपनिया में एक मिशन स्कूल में असामाजिक तत्वों ने धावा बोल दिया और एक कुक के साथ रेप किया। इससे वहां बहुत कोहराम मचा। इस घटना की पूरी जांच-पड़ताल होनी चाहिए और जो मेन कल्प्रिट हैं उन्हें सजा मिलनी चाहिए। ताकि इस तरह की घटनाएं फिर से न होने पायें और अपराधियों का मनोबल नीचा हो। आपने मुझे बोलने का समय दिया, इसके लिए मैं आपको धन्यवाद देता हूं और इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं अपना वक्तव्य समाप्त करता हूं।

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे (बक्सर) : सभापति महोदय, मेरा पहला कहना है कि जो हालत आज से तीन साल पहले थी, वह एक बड़े ही अंधकार और धुंध में थी और ऐसा अंदाजा लग रहा था कि भारत की आर्थिक स्थिति बड़ी ही दयनीय हो चुकी है, रुपये का मूल्य घट जायेगा, बल्कि तबाही मच जायेगी। उस समय इस ऊहापोह में जब सरकार बनी १३ दिन की और १३ महीने की और जो अभी चल रही है, उसके वित्त मंत्री ने देश की इस परेशानी को कम से कम मिटा दिया और लोग एक संतोष की सांस लेने लगे। जब कि लग रहा था कि देश का दीवाला निकल जायेगा। श्री बसुदेव आचार्य अभी हाथ हिला रहे थे कि नहीं, ऐसी बात नहीं है। मैं आपके माध्यम से यह जानना चाहता हूं कि कोई भी बता दे, चाहे विपक्ष बता दे या सरकार बता दे कि राज्यों को जो अधिकार दिये गये और राज्यों का जो दायित्व अपनी जनता के प्रति था, उसका निर्वाह कैसे हो रहा है। सबसे बड़ी बात यह है कि आज राज्य सरकार हर बात में केन्द्र से पैसा मांगने के लिए बनी है, पैसा दो, यहां दो, वहां दो। उनसे सही तरीके से पूछा जाए कि आप पैसे का क्या करोगे, आपकी आय कितनी है, आपके पास इंडस्टि्रयल रिसोर्सेज क्या हैं। अगर उनसे इसका हिसाब मांगा जाए तो केन्द्र को अधिकार ही नहीं रह गया है। आप केन्द्र से पैसा ले जाए, लेकिन अगर केन्द्र चाहे कि उनसे हिसाब ले ले तो वह नहीं ले सकता। ऐसी कई घटनाएं हुई हैं, जिनके बारे में सोच-सोच कर परेशानी होती है और कई जगह पैसे का घोटाला हुआ और उन लोगों की केन्द्र सरकार जांच नहीं करवा सकी और लोक हित याचिका के माध्यम से उन्हें जूडशियरी में जाना पड़ा और जब पोल खुली तो पता चला कि पैसे का दुरुपयोग होता है। कई राज्य हैं जिन्हें करोड़ों, अरबों बल्कि खरबों रुपये दिये गये। उन राज्यों से पूछा जाए कि आपने इस पैसे का क्या किया, लेकिन केन्द्र पूछ नहीं सकता। वहां सड़कें नहीं बनी, पुल नहीं बने, स्कूल नहीं बने, अस्पताल नहीं बने और न ही वहां की जनता में शांति रही। फिर यह पैसा कहां गया। लेकिन केन्द्र को अधिकार ही नहीं है कि वह पूछ सके कि राज्य क्या कर रहे हैं। राज्य की भूमिका कांस्टीटयूशन में क्या है।

मैं कहता हूं कि सुरक्षा के लिए जितना पैसा दिया जा रहा है, वह कहां जा रहा है? लोगों की सुरक्षा नहीं हो पा रही है। जब सुरक्षा नहीं हो पा रही है तो गांव स्तर पर जांच की जाए कि कई राज्यों की हालत कैसी है। दारोगा काम नहीं करता, एस.पी. नहीं सुनता, डी.आई.जी. और आई.जी. नहीं सुनता, कलैक्टर नहीं सुनता, एम.पी. उसके लिए कोई मायने नहीं रखता है। कई राज्य ऐसे हैं, मैं नाम नहीं लेना चाहता हूं लेकिन अगर मैं उन शब्दों का इस्तेमाल करूं तो मुझे बोलने नहीं दिया जाएगा। मैं दो-तीन बार कुल मिलाकर बोला हूं लेकिन बीच में ही हंगामा खड़ा हो गया। लेकिन अभी हमारे मित्र रघुवंश प्रसाद जी भाषण दे रहे थे और उन्होंने शब्द इस्तेमाल किया कि इनको हटाया जाएगा गर्दनिया देकर। यह कौन सा संसदीय शब्द है गर्दनिया मारकर हटाना और निकालना? यह नौकर के लिए भी इस्तेमाल नहीं किया जा सकता और संसद में इस्तेमाल किया जाता है। ऐसे शब्दों का प्रयोग करने से हानि ही हानि है।

…( व्यवधान )

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :सरकार जनता की नौकर होती है। …( व्यवधान )

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:आपको मैंने नहीं टोका है। अगर टोकना शुरू करूंगा तो आप बोल नहीं पाएंगे। …( व्यवधान )

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :हमारा नाम आपने लिया है।

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे: क्या नाम लिया है। रघुवंश तो किताब भी है, कालिदास की रचना है।

…( व्यवधान )सभापति जी, मैं कह रहा था कि इन पैसों का क्या हो रहा है। जब यशवन्त सिन्हा जी आए, हमारे वित्त मंत्री जी तो कुछ धैर्य बना और ये जहां भी गए -- अमेरिका में गए, वहां इन्होंने बयान दिया, कोई काट नहीं सका, यहां इन्होंने पचासों बयान दिये मगर कोई कंट्राडिक्शन नहीं हुआ, सभा में बोलते हैं तो कंट्राडिक्शन नहीं हुआ। हम रघुवंश जी से पूछते हैं कि रुपया बिहार को मिला तो उसका क्या हुआ? बिहार की हालत क्या है आप हिसाब दे सकेंगे। इसी सदन में आपको याद होगा कि एक महिला ने प्रश्न किया कि किस आधार पर योजना आयोग राज्यों को पैसा देता है। मंत्री जी ने कहा कि जो भी रिपोर्ट दी है, कागज देखते हैं और पैसा देते हैं। महिला ने दूसरा सवाल किया कि क्या आप काम के बारे में जानते हैं कि उस पैसे का उपयोग हुआ या नहीं? तो मंत्री जी ने कहा कि यह मुझे नहीं देखना है, मैं नहीं देखता। इस पर ऐसा हंगामा हुआ, लगा कि पहाड़ टूट गया है। माफी मांगो की आवाजें आने लगीं और छ: लोग माफी मंगवा रहे थे जो बिहार के लोग थे। किसलिए माफी मांगो। आपने पैसा लिया, पैसा कहां उपयोग किया, पैसा कहां गया, काम हुआ या नहीं हुआ और कहा गया कि आप माफी मांगिये। क्यों? जब पैसा देते हैं कागज देखने पर तो पैसा दिया। अगर एक महिला ने पूछ लिया कि उस पैसे का क्या हुआ, उन्होंने कहा कि इसके बारे में हमें कोई जानकारी नहीं है, मैं केवल कागज के आधार पर पैसा देता हूंा देश को डुबाने के लिए यही काफी हो गया जिस समय केन्द्र ने राज्यों को अधिक अधिकार देना तय कर लिया और उस पर यह अधिकार हो गया कि आप पैसा दें, पैसे का हिसाब नहीं दें। यानी आप पैसा दीजिए और ये खाएं। पैसा बिहार की ९ करोड़ जनता के लिए दिया जाता है, केवल कुछ लोगों के लिए नहीं दिया जाता है। मैं कहूं तो रघुवंश जी ज्यादा तैश में खड़े हो जाएंगे। इन लोगों को भोजन का पैसा नहीं था, ये लोग सब पैसा खा गए और कहा कि झारखंड बना रहे हैं तो उसको कुछ पैकेज दीजिए।…( व्यवधान )

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :आप लोग देश खा रहे हैं।

MR. CHAIRMAN : This discussion is on Supplementary Demands. Nobody should blame each other. You speak on the Supplementary Demands.

… (Interruptions)

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:देश तो आप खाए हैं और देश खाए नहीं हैं बेचे हैं और अब प्रयास करेंगे कि देश टूट जाए। …( व्यवधान )इनकी सरकार के खिलाफ मेरे पास सुबूत हैं। मेरा चार्ज है कि बिहार सरकार ने नेपाल से तस्करी का रास्ता खोला है और उसमें हिस्सा लेती है। इसलिए रघुवंश जी आप बोलने लायक नहीं हैं। प अगर बोलने लायक होते तो आपके मुखिया और आपके अगुवा जेल में नहीं होते। दूसरे पर चार्ज लगाते हैं कि जिसे जेल जाना चाहिए वह जेल नहीं जा रहा है। …( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing should go on record.

(Interruptions)* डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :केन्द्र सरकार का एक भी मंत्री नहीं बचेगा। लूट कर रहे हैं।… ( व्यवधान )

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सबसे पहले आपकी सरकार जाएगी और आप जेल देखेंगे, लेकिन यह तब होगा जब लोग स्वतंत्र होंगे और एनार्की आएगी, खुलापन आएगा, तो लोग आपको छोड़ेंगे नहीं। आप सबसे पहले जेल में जाएंगे।

सभापति महोदय, यहां से पैसा जाता है गरीबों के कल्याण के लिए, पुलिस के लिए, किसान के लिए, लेकिन वहां सब पैसा खा जाते हैं और विकास तथा कल्याण के कार्यों पर खर्च नहीं होता।… ( व्यवधान )

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :आप तो एफ.सी.आई. के माध्यम से दुकान खुलवा रहे हैं।… ( व्यवधान )

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सभापति महोदय, इन लोगों ने वहां का सारा गोदाम खाली कर दिया और जितना भी गेहूं था सब सड़ा दिया और बेच दिया। मेरे पास इसका सुबूत है। …( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN : We are discussing the Demands. We want the Demands to be put to vote.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सभापति महोदय, कम से कम आप तो मुझे मत टोकिए। मैं तो आपका ही अनुसरण कर रहा हूं। मुझे भी तो कुछ छूट मिलनी चाहिए। मैं आपका अनुयायी हूं।…( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now please resume your seat. Otherwise I will order that nothing will be recorded now.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सभापति महोदय, मैं आपकी परम्परा का पालन कर रहा हूं।…( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN: If you speak on the Demands, that is all right. But you have entered into some other arena. Now, please resume your seat. You have spoken enough. You can speak tomorrow on the Railway Demands.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सभापति महोदय, डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह यहां हल्ला करते हैं और प्रतदिन बोलते हैं।

महोदय, मुझे दो मिनट का समय और दिया जाए। मैं अपनी बात समाप्त कर दूंगा।…( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN: Okay, only two minutes as per the clock.

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : * श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सभापति महोदय, बिहार में सारा काम जेल से हो रहा है। वहां क्या-क्या पकड़ा गया है पूरे देश को पता है। हमारे माननीय सदस्य की ख्वाहिश थी कि उन्हें गैस्ट हाउस में रखा जाए, लेकिन सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने कहा कि नहीं ब्यूर जेल में रखा जाए।…( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN: This has nothing to do with the Demands.

THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN): Now he is talking about the ‘Remand’, Sir.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सभापति महोदय, जब डा. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह बिहार की धान खरीदी के बारे में बोलते हैं, तो मुझे आश्चर्य होता है। मैं बताना चाहता हूं कि प्रदेश के ७० प्रतिशत धान को खरीदने की जिम्मेदारी प्रदेश सरकार की है और केवल ३० प्रतिशत धान को खरीदने का जिम्मा केन्द्र सरकार का है।…( व्यवधान )

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :नहीं, बिलकुल असत्य। १०० प्रतिशत केन्द्र सरकार की जिम्मेदारी है।…( व्यवधान )

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सभापति महोदय, बिहार के किसान को इन्होंने तबाह किया है। किसान को सिंचाई हेतु पानी नहीं दिया, बिजली नहीं दी, खाद नहीं दी,…( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN: Now your two minutes are over. You have completed your * Expunged as ordered by the Chair speech. These things should be spoken only on the floor of the Legislature, not on the floor of the Parliament. Why do you drag Bihar here? The Bihar Chief Minister is not here to answer. Do not drag the State subjects here. Now I am calling Shri Akhilesh Singh.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सभापति महोदय, मैं यह कह रहा था कि बिहार में जो १८,००० गांवों का विद्युतीकरण होना बताया है, उसमें सत्यता यह है कि उनका विद्युतीकरण नहीं हुआ है और उन गांवों को विद्युतीकृत होना रिकॉर्ड में दर्ज कर दिया गया है। ये लोग विकास के कार्यों के लिए दिए गए सब पैसे को खा गए। सब खा गए, बिजली का पैसा खा गए, पानी का पैसा खा गए, अस्पताल का पैसा खा गए, थाने का पैसा खा गए, स्कूल का पैसा खा गए, अस्पताल का पैसा खा गए और गरीबों का पैसा खाया, विधवाओं का पैसा खाया और इन्होंने पूरे बिहार को कंगाल कर दिया और यहां ये शेर जैसे बोलते हैं।…( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN: You wanted two minutes, I have given you five minutes. Now you finish your speech. You cannot speak in instalments. Now, Shri Akhilesh Singh.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:सभापति महोदय, जो दो मिनट का टाइम मैंने आपसे अपने बोलने के लिए मांगा था, वह तो डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह ने हल्ला मचाकर समाप्त कर दिया, वह मुझे नहीं मिला, वह भी उनके हक में चला गया।मैं कहां बोला। मैंने दो मिनट बोलने के लिए कहा था।…( व्यवधान )मैं यह कह रहा था कि चौतरफा बिहार में …( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN: You cannot take two mikes. Let that mike be stopped.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:यह सदन में हंगामा करते हैं। पांच लोग उठते हैं और पांच लोग उठकर प्रधान मंत्री जी को …( व्यवधान )एक दिन प्रधान मंत्री जी ने कहा कि बिहार के लोगों में बड़ा रोष है। …( व्यवधान )हम कहें कि प्रधान मंत्री जी के ५४ …( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN : Hon. Member Shri Chaubey, nothing will be recorded if you go on talking like this. I will expunge the whole thing regarding Bihar.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:पांच लोग बिहार के हैं। …( व्यवधान ) 54 लोग हैं इनके। …( व्यवधान )सारे एम.पी. एक तरफ हैं लेकिन यह चिल्लाना जानते हैं। हम कहना चाहते हैं…( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN : You must obey the Chair.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:* MR. CHAIRMAN : I will see the records. Your speech about Bihar after my announcement is expunged. I am expunging your remarks.

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे:…( अध्यक्षपीठ के आदेशानुसार कार्यवाही-वृत्तान्त से निकाल दिया गया।) MR. CHAIRMAN (SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN): You are thumping the desks for the expunged portion.

श्री सत्यव्रत चतुर्वेदी (खजुराहो):सभापति जी, चौबे जी बहुत अच्छे वक्ता हैं और यह बहुत अच्छा बोले सिवा उस विषय पर नहीं बोले, जो विषय बोलने लायक है। …( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN (SHRI P.H. PANDIYAN): Hon. Member Shri Satyavrat Chaturvedi, under what rule you got up? There must be a rule.

… (Interruptions)

श्री लाल मुनी चौबे (बक्सर) :* MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Chaubey, you cannot get up suddenly except with the previous permission of the Chair.

...( व्यवधान)

श्री सत्यव्रत चतुर्वेदी : इसलिए मैंने कहा कि चौबे जी की प्रशंसा मैं नहीं करूंगा तो कौन करेगा।…( व्यवधान )

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair     कुंवर अखिलेश सिंह (महाराजगंज, उ.प्र.) : सभापति जी, मैं आपका आभारी हूं कि आपने अनुपूरक मांगों पर हो रही चर्चा में मुझे भाग लेने की अनुमति प्रदान की। जब हमने सप्लीमैंट्री डिमांड्स की यह ग्रांट देखी तो मुझे लगा कि माननीय वित्त मंत्री महोदय इस कृषि प्रधान देश के किसानों के लिए कुछ अनुपूरक मांगें लाने का काम करेंगे लेकिन जब इनकी पूरी अनुपूरक मांगों को हमने देखा तो हमें बड़ी निराशा हुई। फिर मुझे यह लगा कि हमारी निराशा गलत है और जो इनकी सरकार का चरित्र है, उस चरित्र को इन्होंने अनुपूरक मांगों की अपनी इस डिमांड्स में उजागर किया है। इस सरकार का चरित्र किसान विरोधी है और इस अनुपूरक मांग में भी इनका यह चरित्र उजागर हो रहा है।

माननीय सभापति महोदय, लक्षित सार्वजनिक वितरण प्रणाली में राज्यों को सबसिडी देने के लिए इन्होंने उत्तर प्रदेश को १३५ करोड़ रुपये और पश्चिम बंगाल को ६५ करोड़ रुपये देने के लिए मांगे हैं। हम आपके माध्यम से वित्त मंत्री महोदय को अवगत करना चाहेंगे कि उत्तर प्रदेश में इस समय जो खाद्यान्न का बाजार भाव है, वह लक्षित सार्वजनिक वितरण प्रणाली के तहत आप जो अनाज गरीबों को वितरित कर रहे हैं, उससे सस्ती दर पर वह अनाज आज बाजार में उपलब्ध है चाहे वह गेहूं हो या चावल हो। हम एक जिम्मेदार संसद सदस्य की हैसियत से आपसे कहना चाहते हैं कि आप चाहें तो एक संसदीय समति को उत्तर प्रदेश में भेज दें ताकि सार्वजिनक वितरण प्रणाली के तहत जो गेहूं और चावल आपके द्वारा आपूर्ति किया जा रहा है, उससे बढि़या चावल और अच्छा गेहूं आपको बाजार भाव में उस दर से कम दर पर प्राप्त हो जायेगा। यह १३५ और ६५ करोड़ रुपये किसके लिए हैं? अगर १३५ करोड़ रुपये और ६५ करोड़ रुपये आपने किसानों का धान खरीदने के लिए सबसिडी में दिया होता तो शायद किसान आपको साधुवाद देते और आपकी सरकार को बधाई देने का काम करते। मैं निश्चित तौर पर कहना चाहता हूं कि इन पैसों को एफ.सी.आई. सहित सभी नोडल एजेंसियां हड़प करने का काम करेंगी जिनके माघ्यम से आप सार्वजनिक वितरण प्रणाली को चलाने का काम कर रहे हैं।

अभी हमने देखा कि आपने पूर्वोत्तर भारत के जनजातीय इलाकों में ग्रामीण विद्युतीकरण के लिए धन की मांग की है। यह जनजातीय लोगों के साथ भेदभाव क्यों कर रहे हैं?पूरे देश में जनजातीय लोग हैं। उत्तर प्रदेश में भी जनजातीय लोग बसते हैं। मिर्जापुर में चले जाइये, वहां भी जनजातीय लोग हैं। हमारे महाराज गंज में चले जाइये, वहां भी जनजातीय लोग हैं। सिद्धार्थनगर के जनपद में चले जाइये, बलरामपुर जिले में चले जाइये, गोंडा और उत्तराखंड के इलाके में चले जाइये, वहां बड़ी संख्या में थारू जाति के लोग रहते हैं। देश के अंदर जितने भी जनजातीय लोग रहते हैं, उन सब जनजातीय बस्तियों के विद्युतीकरण के लिए भी आपको धन की मांग करनी चाहिए।

केवल देश के एक क्षेत्र विशेष के लिए आपके द्वारा धन की डिमांड करना मेरी समझ से न्यायोचित नहीं है और अन्य क्षेत्रों में बसे हुए जनजातीय लोगों के साथ भेदभाव का परिचायक है।

हमने अभी देखा, आपने एम.पी. लैड्स के लिए धन की मांग की है, ढाई सौ करोड़ रुपये एक जगह मांगे हैं और ढाई सौ करोड़ रुपये दूसरी जगह मांगे हैं। बतौर संसद सदस्य पता नहीं आपको अपने क्षेत्र के लोगों के आक्रोश का सामना करना पड़ रहा है या नहीं, आप बड़े नेता हैं, हो सकता है कि आपको अपने क्षेत्र में कम जाना पड़ रहा हो लेकिन हमको तो हर हफ्ते अपने क्षेत्र में जाना पड़ रहा है और विकास के प्रति जो लोगों के मन में हमारे प्रति लालसा है, हमारे प्रति उनकी जो सोच है, उस सोच पर हम बतौर संसद सदस्य खरे नहीं उतर रहे हैं। आप धन का रोना रोने की बात कर रहे हैं, हम कहना चाहते हैं कि आप राज्य सरकारों को सुनिश्चित रोजगार योजना के माध्यम से काफी धन आबंटित कर रहे हैं। एक संसदीय समति का गठन कर दीजिए। केवल बिहार ही नहीं, जहां उत्तर प्रदेश में आपके मुख्य मंत्री बैठे हैं श्री राजनाथ सिंह जो कल तक आपके बगल में बैठा करते थे, जरा उत्तर प्रदेश का ही मुआयना करवा लीजिए कि सुनिश्चित रोजगार योजना के अन्तर्गत कराए गए कार्यों का क्या हश्र है, कितने प्रतिशत कार्य हो रहे हैं। मैं दावे से कहना चाहता हूं कि उत्तर प्रदेश में सुनिश्चित रोजगार योजना के तहत जो कार्य कराया जा रहा है, भौतिक सत्यापन में ३५ से ४० प्रतिशत भी कार्य आपको मौके पर नहीं मिलेगा। आप कहते हैं कि हमारे पास पैसा नहीं है, हम कहते हैं कि सुनिश्चित रोजगार योजना के पैसे को कट कीजिए और उसे एम.पी. लैड्स में जोड़ दें, उस गाइडलाइन को एम.पी. लैड्स में लागू कर दें। जितना रुपया अतरिक्त एम.पी. लैड्स में दे रहे हैं, उसी गाइडलाइन को हम फॉलो अप करेंगे। हम आपसे कहना चाहते हैं कि रुपये का सही जगह पर सदुपयोग कीजिए, ऐसी जगह पर रुपया वितरित मत कीजिए जिसका दुरुपयोग हो। इसलिए हम आपसे विनम्रतापूर्वक आग्रह करना चाहते हैं कि यदि धन की कमी है तो सुनिश्चित रोजगार योजना को समाप्त कीजिए और एम.पी. लैड्स में उस रुपये को जोड़ने का काम कीजिए। जहां तक रोजगार के सृजन का सवाल है, सांसद विकास नधि से भी जो कार्य होंगे, उनमें भी रोजगार का सृजन होगा।

दूसरी बात कहना चाहता हूं कि उरवर्क संयंत्रों के लिए, कुछ कारखानों के लिए भी आपने धन की डिमांड की है। हम कहते हैं कि आप अन्य राज्यों के साथ भेदभाव क्यों कर रहे हैं। गोरखपुर का खाद कारखाना वर्षों से बंद पड़ा हुआ है, हम यह नहीं कहते कि आपकी सरकार के जमाने में बंद हो गया, बहुत पहले से बंद पड़ा है। लेकिन अगर किसी सरकार के समय में कोई गलती हुई है तो जरूरी नहीं है कि उसी गलती को आप भी दोहराते रहें या उस समस्या से आंख मूंद कर बैठे रहें। हम विनम्रतापूर्वक आग्रह करना चाहते हैं कि गोरखपुर के बंद पड़े कारखाने को चालू करने के लिए आपको बजट में प्रावधान करना चाहिए।

हम मांग करना चाहते हैं कि ग्रामीण क्षेत्रों में विद्युतीकरण का अभाव है। उत्तर प्रदेश जो देश का सबसे बड़ा राज्य है, उसकी स्थिति देख लीजिए। आपकी जो रिपोर्ट है, उसके मुताबिक जिस गति से उत्तर प्रदेश में ग्रामीण विद्युतीकरण का कार्य है…( व्यवधान )हम विषय पर बोल रहे हैं और दो मिनट में अपनी बात खत्म करेंगे। जिस गति से उत्तर प्रदेश में ग्रामीण विद्युतीकरण का कार्य चल रहा है, जो वर्जिन विलेज हैं, उनके मानक को पूरा करने में ३३ वर्ष लग जाएंगे और वास्तविक रूप से अगर पूरी जनसंख्या का विद्युतीकरण करना है तो सौ वर्ष लग जाएंगे, सौ वर्षों में भी विद्युतीकरण का कार्य नहीं हो पाएगा। हम चाहते हैं कि आप ग्रामीण विद्युतीकरण के लिए भी कुछ प्रावधान करें। राज्य सरकारों के बस का नहीं है कि वे अपने वित्तीय संसाधनों से ग्रामीण विद्युतीकरण का लक्ष्य पूरा कर सकें। इसलिए हम चाहते हैं कि आप ऐसा प्रावधान करें, ऊर्जा मंत्री जी को अतरिक्त बजट देने का काम करें और ऊर्जा मंत्री जी यहीं से गांवों को पैकेज देने का काम करें। संसद सदस्य यहां से अपनी सहमति दे दें. गांवों को चयनित कर लें, यहीं से पैकेज जाए और उनके क्षेत्रों में ग्रामीण विद्युतीकरण का कार्य कराया जाए।

आपने अनुपूरक मांगों के लिए जो प्रस्ताव सदन के समक्ष रखा है, आप कृपा करके किसानों के ऊपर द्ृष्टि डालिए, बिहार, उत्तर प्रदेश और सम्पूर्ण देश में किसानों के धान की जो खरीद नहीं हो रही है, उस खरीदारी को सुनिश्चित करने के लिए यदि भारत सरकार को अतरिक्त सबसिडी देने की भी आवश्यकता हो तो वह भी देने का काम करें। पूरा उत्तर प्रदेश पिछले दिनों बाढ़ की विभीषिका से तबाह और बर्बाद हो चुका है, पूरे उत्तर प्रदेश की महत्वपूर्ण सड़कें, बौद्ध सर्किट की सड़कें आज भी आवागमन योग्य नहीं हुई हैं, वे आज भी टूटी-फूटी पड़ी हैं। पूरे उत्तर प्रदेश को बाढ़ की विभीषिका से निजात दिलाने के लिए हम चाहते हैं कि अतरिक्त धन का प्रावधान करें।

इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं वित्त मंत्री जी की अनुपूरक मांगों का समर्थन करता हूं।

       

SHRI E.M. SUDARSANA NATCHIAPPAN (SIVAGANGA): Sir, we can find from the Supplementary Demands for Grants that the hon. Finance Minister was compelled to provide additional ways and means, advances to the level of Rs. 500 crore, another Rs. 500 crore for the Natural Calamity Contingency Fund, Rs. 210 crore for the Mid-day Meal Programme, and Rs. 300 crore for the modernisation of State Police Force. By giving these funds, the alliance partners will be more satisfied.

I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Finance Minister to the reality at the grass-root level. The Finance Minister will be doing the exercise of preparing the Budget for the next year. What is the reality at the grass-root level? The poor, ordinary people and the farmers are suffering a lot because of the abolition of very, very important programmes like IRDP, RLEGP, NREP, MAPP and Jeevandhara. These programmes were directly helping the ordinary householders, the farmers and the poor, but they were abolished. Now, the banks are not in a position to help the small entrepreneurs, petty shop owners, and bicycle shop owners. These people are not getting small Differential Interest Rates (DIR) loans or IRDP loans. The banks are not ready to help these people because the IRDP has been abolished.

The poor people have the will to come up, but there is no financial help either from the Government or from the financial institutions. Similar is the case with the farmers. They are ready to forego anything for the sake of improving agricultural production so that they can help the nation, but they are not being helped by making available water and by implementing massive programmes relating to agriculture. Therefore, I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Minister towards the monitoring mechanism, and the IRDP and DIR programme should again come under the purview of the Government so that the banks, including the commercial banks, can be asked to give certain portion of their funds to the poor people for bringing them up.

Secondly, the small and medium industries are suffering, and they are facing closure because their markets are flooded with Taiwanese, Korean and Chinese products. We do not know from which way they are coming in. They may be coming through the land, sea or by air routes. Even in the small villages, we can have the Taiwanese, Korean and the Chinese products. How can the small-scale industry survive? The small-scale units producing electronic goods are getting closed; the small-scale units producing consumer goods are getting closed; the medium scale industries are getting closed. The ordinary people who are earning their livelihood through these small-scale industries are now suffering a lot. They are not being helped in any way; the banks are not coming forward to help them. I have got personal experience. In my own constituency, the banks are not ready to help the small and medium scale industries. People have borrowed money to construct buildings and to buy machinery, and they have employed people in their units, but they are not having any market.

My third point is on the textile mills and other relevant industries. Seventy per cent of the textile mills have now been referred to BIFR. It is a way for liquidation and it is not a way for revival or rejuvenation. The BIFR, just like the court hearings, is postponing the hearings one after another and therefore the entire industry and the working class are suffering. Therefore, there should be some new approach to revive the industries which are sick.

My fourth point is that the number of unemployed youth and the industrial workers due to closure of units is swelling. They do not know where to go; they are at the crossroad.

The fifth point is this. I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Finance Minister towards the mass agitations that are going on. No State or Central Government can satisfy the masses who are coming up with different demands.

   

Therefore, they are now organising themselves in small groups and are diverting themselves to terrorist activities. They are getting themselves involved in burglary and sex business. If you see ordinary newspapers then only you could come across advertisements that say that you can just phone up for sex talks. So, all Western cultures are invading India. The poor people who have little earnings are getting spoiled. The frustration of the people should be kept in view while the hon. Finance Minister prepares his Budget.

Sir, I would also like to draw the attention of the hon. Minister to one other aspect. Now a days, the people are going on pilgrimages and a lot of human resource is wasted on this. The people are walking miles after miles for going on pilgrimages. The situation is so grim that they do not have any faith in any of the systems of the Government. These days, the situation is so bad that neither a father depends on his son nor a son depends on his father. That is the state of relationship. People only have become superstitious and are going on pilgrimage. This has resulted in the growth of religious and castiest organisations. These frustrations of the people should be taken note of by the hon. Finance Minister. These people should be satisfied, otherwise we would have to face a situation where we would need to spend more on policing than for purposes of development.

Sir, finally I would like to draw the attention of the hon. Finance Minister to the fact that there should be a vision to satisfy the younger generation and the farming community. There should be an attempt for increasing the purchasing power of the people and for making available the money to the entrepreneurs. There should be provision for direct funding of the third tier of the Government, that is the Panchayati Raj institutions, so that pilferage could be stopped and the people at the grassroots level are able to enjoy the benefits proposed in the Union Budget.

Sir, I would also like to mention another point. This is about brain drain. All qualified electronic and computer trained people are leaving this country and are going to the United States or other Western countries in search of jobs and we are being denied of their services. This point should also be taken note of by the hon. Finance Minister.

Sir, though this is Supplementary Demand for Grants, I would like to urge upon the hon. Finance Minister that he should continue with a positive speech. His speech should be a light in the darkness and his speech should come as a fountain in the desert. The people are expecting very positive leadership from the hon. Finance Minister so that they get more courage and we could have growth.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, I have only two points to make.

The first point is in regard to the parity in the wages of the employees of the Audit and Accounts Service with the staff of the Central Secretariat. The hon. Finance Minister knows about this problem. There was parity in their pay scales but it has got disturbed since the Report of the Third Pay Commission. Now, I would like to urge upon the hon. Finance Minister to consider a higher pay scale at par with the Central Secretariat Staff. This can be granted prospectively and not retrospectively. So, there would not be much burden on the Government.

Sir, another issue that I would like to mention here is about the non-payment of statutory dues to the workers and employees of the PSUs and non-payment of salaries to the employees and workers of the Central Public Sector Undertakings. The workers and the employees who have retired have not received their Provident Fund and Gratuity. The amount due is more than Rs. 2,500 crore.

Retired employees are suffering hardships. Most of them are starving. In a number of Central public sector undertakings, like Hindustan Steel Construction Corporation, National Project Construction Corporation, Jessop and other units, employees have not been paid their salaries for periods ranging from five months to even 20 months. Some of the workers have died of starvation. This issue is of urgent importance. However, I have not seen in the Supplementary Demands, any provision for payment of statutory dues and salaries of employees of these Central public sector undertakings. There is an Act that is being violated by the Government of India.

I urge upon the Minister to restore the parity in the case of Audit and Accounts staff, which was disturbed recently. I also urge upon the Minister to take steps to ensure payment of statutory dues, as well as wages of employees of Central public sector undertakings.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI YASHWANT SINHA): Mr. Chairman, I am grateful to the Members who have participated in this discussion and given some very valuable suggestions. It will perhaps not be possible for me to answer each one of them, both for paucity of time and also on account of the fact that very specific issues which have been raised relate to other Ministries and I may not have immediate information in regard to them. But, I will certainly like to touch upon the general issues which have been raised in the course of this debate.

I should begin by thanking the hon. Members for the support they have extended to the Government in agreeing with the Supplementary Demands, which have been before the House. These are the Second Supplementary Demands with which I have come to the Lok Sabha. The Third Supplementary Demands will be before the House at the time of the Budget, as is the practice. I would like to say that in the First Supplementary Demands that I had presented in the Monsoon Session of Parliament, the net outgo was Rs.632 crore. In these Supplementary Demands, the net outgo is Rs.1571 crore. Together it works out to a little over Rs.2200 crore, which, looking at the fact that we have completed almost nine months of the year, would be and should be considered as reasonable. Most of the Demands for which provision is being made in these Supplementary Demands are such, which could not have been anticipated at the time of the Budget.

The main items of additional expenditure, as Members have noted, are: Rs.500 crore of transfer for National Calamity Contingency Fund as recommended by the Finance Commission; Rs.350 crore for ways and means support to various public sector undertakings; Rs.300 crore to the State Governments for modernisation of police forces; Rs.250 crore additionally for the MP Local Area Development Scheme; Rs.210 crore for Mid-Day Meal Scheme; and Rs.200 crore additionally for food subsidy. These account for the bulk of the expenditure in these Supplementary Demands.

Now the issue of fiscal deficit arises. I am grateful to Shri Kanungo in particular, for referring to the fiscal situation and the fact that we will soon be bringing before this House the Fiscal Responsibility legislation. I would like to point out to Shri Rupchand Pal, because he said that fiscal deficit was not a bad thing in itself, that I do agree with him.

I agree with him. Fiscal deficit is not a bad thing in itself as long as the deficit financing goes for investment purposes. But for many years now in our country, unfortunately, the large part of the fiscal deficit is the revenue deficit.

Dr. Nitish Sengupta will appreciat this becase he had been the Revenue Secretary of the Government of India that if we run revenue deficit and finance it out of borrowing from the market, and today at market rates of interest, then it is not an economic proposition at all. Then, we are creating that inter-generation inequity that we are borrowing for ourselves in order to leave problems for the future generations. And, it is that which has prompted us firstly, to ensure that the fiscal deficit is kept under check and secondly, to come out with a self-denying ordinance, a self-denying rule where the Government is going to bind itself for the first time in all these fifty years and say, ‘we will not spend beyond our resources.’ Now, I am happy to be informing the House, through you, Sir, that the figures that we have for the first six months of the current year, clearly show that while on the one hand we have been able to keep the receipts especially the revenue receipts more or less on course, we have also been able to keep the expenditure under check, as a result of which the fiscal deficit for the first six months was only 45.7 per cent of the Budget estimates compared to 57.7 per cent for the corresponding period last year. And, it is this which gives me the hope that it will be possible with a kind of determination that we are showing this year that if nothing untoward happens between now and February next year, when I present the Budget, I will be happily reporting to this House again during the Budget Session that we have been able to restrict the fiscal deficit to the budgeted target, budgeted level of 5.1 per cent after a lapse of, I do not know how many years. This is the effort that we are trying to make in order to ensure that we do not exceed the Budget target of fiscal deficit.

Now, I would like to refer to the hon. Member from the Congress party, the Chief Whip of that party, who initiated the discussion. Unfortunately, he is not present in the House. Maybe he had some other pressing preoccupations.

SHRI SATYAVRAT CHATURVEDI (KHAJURAHO): He was feeling feverish, and that is why he had gone.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: I see, he had fever. I do not like to take people on behind their back.

But there are certain issues that he had raised, and, I think, I will be failing in my duty on behalf of the Government that I represent, if I did not clarify some of the points that he had raised.

Sir, he said that we have lost the confidence of farmers, workers and people generally. I remember, it was the same kind of talk which was there in the 12th Lok Sabha when we were accused of having lost the confidence of the people of the country. We were forced to go to polls. We went to polls and the result of the polls has shown where the confidence of the people of this country lies.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGLY): But the percentage of support in favour of your party has gone down.… (Interruptions)

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Therefore, let us not talk about the confidence of the various sections of our society. They are strongly with the Government. They will abide with the Government, I have no doubt about it.

Sir, I was also saddened to note that the spokesperson of the Congress Party who initiated the discussion should show such an intellectual bankruptcy that he was compelled to quote not Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, not Mahatma Gandhi or not even Dr. Manmohan Singh, but Dr. J. Dubashi. Dr. J. Dubashi is not an ideal of the BJP.

He is certainly not the ideologue of this Government and if Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi wants to believe that the economy has collapsed because Dr. Jay Dubashi is saying so, I can only pity his own understanding of the Indian situation.

He has raised a number of other issues; NPAs, for instance. An impression is sought to be created as if NPAs was something that we discovered when we came into office. I am grateful to Shri Kirit Somaiya for having said that we inherited this situation.

DR. NITISH SENGUPTA (CONTAI): Thanks to loan melas! SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: I want to give full credit to the Minister of Finance of the Congress party – at that time, the Congress party was in power – Dr. Manmohan Singh who first decided to bring before the people the whole question of NPAs. Before 1993-94, there was no way of calculating the NPAs of the banks. He brought it before the country.

I would like to say that when the Congress party demitted office in the month of May of 1996, as far as the figures of 31st March, 1996 were concerned, there was already an NPA of Rs.41,660 crore.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): What is the position now?

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: I am not going to hide anything. I have nothing to hide; I have nothing to be apologetic about. It was not created by Yashwant Sinha; it was not created by the Vajpayee Government.

When the U.F. Government demitted office, it was Rs.45,652 crore. It had gone up from Rs.41,660 crore to Rs.45,652 crore. It has gone up again and as on the 31st March, 2000, it was Rs.53,294 crore. So, if it all you could hold me responsible, perhaps, you could hold me responsible for this Rs.8,000 crore only. But what about the Rs.45,000 crore and Rs.41,000 crore? Who is responsible for that? Is Yashwant Sinha responsible for that? When we talk in this House, we should talk with a sense of responsibility. Every time, we say, ‘Government is a continuing organisation; Governments come, Governments go.’ SHRI RUPCHAND PAL: But there are some changes.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Governments come, Governments go; but the same problems remain. There are changes in your outside support also. You are not absolutely in the chair. Your sister party, the CPI was a member of the Government. You were supporting it as you always do – dutifully, constructively and destructively, from outside.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : But we did not change positions from the Opposition to the Treasury Benches.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: So, we have a problem of NPAs. But let us not create the impression that all the NPAs have been created in our time and that all the NPAs belong to big businesses. I have figures here to show that something like 44 per cent of the NPAs are accounted for by loans that are up to Rs.1 crore. Of the NPAs, 44.49 per cent are loans accounted for by accounts that are up to Rs.1 crore.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Why do you not publish the list?

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: That is a debate that we have had in the past.

I would like to take the House into confidence and say that we are making the most determined effort to ensure that NPAs are liquidated the soonest possible. That is why the Reserve Bank of India has come out with that circular advising the banks to settle NPAs and to deal with NPAs in a totally non-discriminatory and non-discretionary way.

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : But the NPAs of financial institutions are going up as in the case of ICICI although the NPAs in respect of public sector banks are coming down.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: In absolute terms, it is going up. I have myself said that the performance of the public sector banks is improving because in percentage terms the NPAs have been coming down – both growth of NPAs and also the net NPAs.

The situation is not out of hand. But even then, the Reserve Bank of India has come out with the non-discretionary and non-discriminatory instructions on the subject. Why is it non-discriminatory and non-discretionary? It is purely because of the fact that the banks were very apprehensive or the bank managements were apprehensive. That is, if they were to do something, then will they be caught by the CBI or the CVC or others?

So, we discussed this issue. I called a meeting of the Chairmen of various banks with the Reserve Bank of India. We have come out with this. I am happy to say that according to the figures that we have from 1st April to 30th September, something like Rs.3000 crore of NPA had been realised by the banks. We have passed the DRTA Bill in this House. DRTAs have been strengthened; more DRTAs, more Appellate Tribunals have been created. I have told the Chairmen of banks that I would hold them personally responsible for every account where the NPA is Rs.5 crore and above. I am holding them responsible. I took a meeting with the Chairmen of banks once again, a few weeks ago. We have reviewed the situation. I continue to review the situation every quarter. We will meet again in January. I am personally monitoring the liquidation of NPAs because I am determined that we must chase the defaulters especially the wilful defaulters to the end of the earth. They must be made to pay. Wherever there are small defaulters, we will make sure that if their accounts were to be settled, we would settle them.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : How many defaulters are there on that side?

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: They are on both sides.

Inflation, growth rate and the general state of the economy, etc. have been mentioned by several hon. Members. Shri Dasmunsi would like us to believe that the economy is in a state of collapse. Why? It is because the manufacturing indices have come down to one percentage point compared to last year. Let me say what was the position just before we, the first Government of Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee, came into Office. What was the growth rate in 1997-98? It was five per cent of the GDP. I remember the year 1998-99 very well. I will not forget that year in a hurry. Because of the nuclear tests, sanctions, the foreboding and also because of prophets of doom, I have never felt more besieged in my life than I felt as the Finance Minister of this country, in 1998-99. The international credit rating agencies had downgraded India. We could not go to anybody for any assistance. That was the situation. What happened in 1998-99?

I am saying this because it was mentioned that I am always over-optimistic and that I always say nice things about the economy. What is expected of me? Am I expected, as the Finance Minister of this country, to throw up my hands and say that this country is going to the dogs? Is that what is expected of me? As Finance Minister of this country, it is my duty to keep the confidence in this country up and up and up. This is my duty and I perform that duty.

I would like to remind the prophets of doom once again, who are talking about ‘slow down’ and who are talking about various other problems, that in 1998-99, from five per cent growth rate in the previous year, we were able to take the growth rate up to 6.8 per cent.

The next year, 1999-2000 was not such a year of siege. That was a year when the growth rate was 6.4 per cent. In two years that I have been the Finance Minister, the growth rate, on an average, has been 6.6 per cent.

DR. NITISH SENGUPTA : This is higher than the growth rates in the 60s, 70s and the 80s.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Absolutely. So, there is nothing that I have to be apologetic about. What is the discussion this year? What is this big talk about ‘slow down’? The big talk about ‘slow down’ is that we were expecting a growth rate of seven per cent. This is mentioned as an allegation against me today. They say that for the year 2000-2001, I mentioned that the growth rate would be seven per cent, but now it is likely to be six per cent. This is the allegation and this is the accusation.

20.00 hrs. Seven per cent growth rate was not only Yashwant Sinha’s estimate. It was the estimate of every observer of the Indian scene. It was the estimate of all the research institutions which generally talk about this. Somebody said that growth rate would be 7.2 per cent and somebody else said that it would be 7.5 per cent. At that time all the estimates were seven per cent plus. Then, what happened? These are well-known facts. The most important thing that has happened was the absolutely unprecedented increase in the international oil prices. I was not responsible for that. Of course, I am responsible for the management of that situation. The international oil prices went up. When I went abroad to attend international meetings, there were economists from the World Bank and IMF who made presentations as to how the increase in oil price would impact various economies.

They have come to the conclusion that as far as India is concerned, it will decelerate India’s growth rate by one per cent and it would decelerate China’s growth rate by 1.5 per cent. Like this, they have studied the major economies. I do not care for these certificates. But let me tell you that despite this deceleration of one per cent, internationally today India is recognised as one of the fastest growing economies despite the adverse situation against us. Before the end of this year, we will record a growth rate which will do us proud despite the problems of increasing oil price, drought, flood and many other problems. So, when we discuss these issues, let us discuss them dispassionately and as objectively as possible. We are not here merely to trade charges.

I was reading the interview of West Bengal’s Chief Minister in The Pioneer of today. He says:

"But I feel the political opponents should ask themselves what kind of picture they are projecting of West Bengal. "

 Shall I turn around and ask our own friends sitting here as to what kind of picture are you projecting abroad by making the kind of allegations that you are making?

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : They are totally different.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: No, it is not.

If the Chief Minister of West Bengal is hurt because of what the Opposition there is saying, then it applies equally to the Opposition in the Lok Sabha also, especially to his Party. That is the point I am making.

According to the latest figure that we have, the rate of inflation is 7.45 per cent. When we increased the prices of petroleum products, we knew that inflation would go up. When we increased the prices of Minimum Support Price, we knew that inflation was going to increase, and when we raised other administered prices, we knew that inflation was going to increase. It is because in India the rate of inflation depends in most situations on how you deal with the administered prices. The prices of petrol and diesel has a multiplier and a cascading effect. But what is the core inflation? There is a concept called core inflation also. It is only three per cent. That is why there is no hullabaloo and that is why there is no noise about inflation. It is because inflation is not impacting.

We are facing the other kind of problem to which all of you have been referring to throughout this Session. That is the problem of falling prices and the problem of prices of agricultural produce crashing. This is the problem today. Inflation is not the problem. In fact, the Consumer Price Index for industrial workers up to September was 2.75 per cent. It is less than three pre cent. So, inflation is not the problem.

Then, the issue of employment was raised. It is the legitimate concern of the Members of this House to talk about employment and employment opportunities. I have a study with me here.

The whole programme that we have prepared is a programme of increasing employment. Why has the Prime Minister come out with his National Highway Project? When we build 13,000 kms. of roads in this country, that is going to create employment. It will improve the infrastructure. It will also create employment. When we build houses, we are going to create employment. I was looking at a study which has been made by the Indian Institute of Management in Ahmedabad which says that any 10 per cent increase in the expenditure of the construction sector leads to the creation of fresh employment opportunities of 29.57 lakh workers. That is the kind of employment.

I have here the figures of housing. This is not an issue which was raised. But, if houses are being built, I can take credit for the fact that in my Budgets one after the other, I have given major concessions to the construction industry, especially to residential house construction. I am happy to be telling this House that in 1998-99, we financed the construction of 26.24 lakh units. In 1999-2000, we financed the construction of 32.15 lakh units. This is the figure. Already, up to September this year, we have financed the construction of 19.63 lakh dwelling units. The NDA Agenda talks of two million houses. Two million was crossed in the very first year, in 1998-99. It has gone up to over three million in 1999-2000. I am very confident that we will be close to four million in 2000-2001. If so many buildings and houses are being constructed, is not that leading to employment? That is leading to employment.… (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : How many are losing?

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Shri Rupchand Pal, I will come to that. Because, this is where we have a basic philosophical, ideological and theological difference with you.… (Interruptions)

I now come to IT. We are now being accused that we are giving over-emphasis to IT. IT software, IT hardware and IT-enabled services are creating employment opportunities for millions of people in this country. If somebody does not believe in IT, there is nothing one can do. But go to Gurgaon and see what is happening; go to NOIDA and see what is happening; go to Bangalore and see what is happening and also go to Hyderabad and see what is happening.… (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : There should be corresponding electricity supply and telephone facilities available.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: अबयह तो नहीं चल पायेगाif I am disturbed like this.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Rupchand Pal, I am sitting here.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: IT is creating employment. I am very happy that the supreme leader of the party to which Shri Raghuvanse Prasad Singh belongs, he is also now talking in terms of IT. Otherwise, he has said: आई.टी., फाई टी. क्या होता है? But now he believes in IT. I am sure that as more and more States and more and more regions of this country embrace Information Technology, more and more employment opportunities will be created.… (Interruptions)

A question was raised. Again, I wish some of the Congress Party Members who are present here must convey this to Shri Dasmunsi because he raised this issue. I have also got the feeling. I do not know what sin I was committing when he talked about the duties on cigarettes. The duties on cigarettes have been based on the length of the cigarette since 1987. I say this because I remember that in my three Budgets, I have made no changes. In fact, I have raised the duties on cigarettes. But as far as the principles are concerned, I have not done anything. But I was wondering why he is accusing me of this fraud, cheating and all that indulged in by some cigarette company. I then found out that since 1987, the excise duty on cigarette has been based on length. I do not know what brief he had. But I will certainly discuss this issue with him.

This disabuses his mind on…… (Interruptions)

SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : You are not doing enough in the case of those who escape from the excise to the tune of Rs.800 crores. … (Interruptions) Maybe, in their time. … (Interruptions)

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: The issue of disinvestment has been raised. I will not touch upon it because disinvestment is being discussed in this House under Rule 193, and my colleague, the Disinvestment Minister would get the opportunity to reply to that, and our policy on public sector undertakings. But I would like to mention about rural roads, which was raised by Shri Tilakdhari Prasad Singh. An amount of Rs. 2,500 crore has been provided in this year’s Budget for rural roads because we all experienced and I think, all hon. Members would bear me out when I say that last year, during monsoon when we were going around campaigning for elections, we all felt in various parts of the country the pitiable condition of rural road. That is why when we came back to office, we discussed this in Government and we decided that we must have an ambitious programme of rural roads. Let me make it very clear that this Rs.2,500 crore is not to be wasted. We will not allow a single paise of this precious money to be wasted. Therefore, we are putting very strong conditionalities. We are making this money available to the State Governments but with very strong conditionalities. My colleague, the Rural Development Minister is also making sure that Members of Parliament will have a say in the selection of the rural roads. That will have to happen because… … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Have guidelines been issued?

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Yes.

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :प्रधान मंत्री ग्रामोदय योजना का अलग से पैसा है।

श्री यशवन्त सिन्हा : प्रधान मंत्री ग्राम सड़क योजना का उद्घाटन प्रधान मंत्री जी २५ दिसम्बर को बैठकर ऑन लाइन देश के वभिन्न भागों में करने वाले हैं। Then, we are going to take up the construction of rural roads on a war footing. This is our resolve.

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह :२५०० करोड़ रुपया ग्रामोदय योजना का अलग से है।

…( व्यवधान )

श्री रामदास आठवले (पंढरपुर) : यह उसी में है, ग्रामोदय योजना में है। …( व्यवधान )

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: I do not want to take more time of the House. लेकिन रघुवंश जी ने बहुत ज़ोर जोर से बिहार की बात उठाई है। बिहार की अक्सर चर्चा होती है। मैं उनकी पार्टी के आंतरिक मामलों में दखल नहीं देना चाहता लेकिन मुझे यह बात समझ में नहीं आती कि हर बात पर रघुवंश बाबू के दल की ओर से रघुवंश जी ही क्यों बोलते हैं। उधर उनके साथ छ: सदस्य हैं, कभी किसी और को भी मौका देना चाहिए। चाहे जुवेनाइल डेलिनक्वेन्सी पर बोलना हो तो रघुवंश बाबू बोलेंगे, सप्लीमेंटरी डिमांड्ज पर बोलना हो तो रघुवंश जी बोलेंगे, बर्थ कंट्रोल पर बोलना हो तो रघुवंश जी बोलेंगे।

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : चोरी के खिलाफ बोलेंगे तो रघुवंश बोलेंगे।

श्री यशवन्त सिन्हा : हर विषय के ऐक्सपर्ट हैं रघुवंश बाबू। हर मर्ज़ की दवा हैं। मैं उनसे निवेदन करूंगा कि उन्होंने कहा कि दुश्मनी की नीयत से काम करते हैं। कोई दुश्मनी की नीयत नहीं है। बिहार, झारखंड और इस देश का हर प्रदेश हमारे लिए प्रिय है और इसलिए हम किसी प्रदेश के बारे में दुश्मनी नहीं कर रहे हैं। आप हमारे ऊपर चार्ज लगाते हैं कि मैं राजनैतिक भावनाओं से प्रेरित होकर राज्यों को देख रहा हूं और आप कह रहे थे कि एन.डी.ए. के जो हमारे पार्टनर्स हैं, वह कहीं सरकार चला रहे हैं तो उनके लिए यह सुविधा, वह सुविधा उपलब्ध करा दी और बाकियों के लिए केयर नहीं की। मैं बताना चाहता हूं कि मेरे पास ६.१२.२००० की चिट्ठी है केरल के चीफ मनिस्टर की। केरल में किसकी सरकार है? क्या हमारे एन.डी.ए. की पार्टनर्स की सरकार है? नहीं है। नयनार साहब क्या लिखते हैं? Shri Nayanar said "The Government of India has been very cooperative in helping the Government of Kerala whenever we have got into ways and means problem."

"In fact, Shri T. Sivadas Menon, Finance Minister of Kerala had called on you earlier this year and conveyed our gratitude for the timely assistance rendered by your Ministry to the State Government in this regard."

 

 I did not solicit this certificate. The Chief Minister of Kerala himself has sent me this letter.

इसलिए मैं यह कहना चाहता हूं और अंतिम बिन्दु सभापति महोदय मेरा पश्चिम बंगाल में फ्लड के बारे में है क्योंकि हम ५०० करोड़ रुपए नैशनल कंटिनजेंसी कैलेमिटी फंड से दे रहे हैं। मुझे यहां यह कहना है कि जब रूप चन्द पाल जी यहां बोले, तो मुझे बहुत दुख हुआ क्योंकि उन्होंने कहा कि प.बंगाल के पूर्व मुख्य मंत्री दिल्ली आए और यहां आकर धरने पर बैठे और भाषण दिया। मेरा कहना यह है कि किसी के दुख का कृपया राजनीतिकरण मत कीजिए।Do not make politics out of suffering of the people. This is what you have done. … (Interruptions)

श्री बसुदेव आचार्य : सभापति महोदय, हम राजनीतिकरण नहीं कर रहे हैं, बल्कि सरकार राजनीतिकरण कर रही है।…( व्यवधान )

श्री यशवन्त सिन्हा : आपने टोटल राजनीतिकरण किया। मैं आपसे यह कहता हूं कि आपने वहां के लोगों की राहत के लिए कुछ नहीं किया। यदि प.बंगाल के पूर्व मुख्य मंत्री महोदय ने अपने वित्त मंत्री महोदय से बात कर ली होती, तो उनको सत्यता पता लग जाती।…( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Basu Deb Acharia, Shri Rupchand Pal, both of you kindly resume your seats.

… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Basu Deb Acharia, the Minister was keenly listening to you when you spoke. He is replying now. So, kindly do not interrupt him now.

… (Interruptions)

कुंवर अखिलेश सिंह (महाराजगंज, उ.प्र.) : सभापति महोदय, यहां जो भाषण अब हो रहा है, वह राजनीतिक भाषण हो रहा है।…( व्यवधान )

श्री बसुदेव आचार्य : राजनीतिकरण आप कर रहे हैं। …( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Basu Deb Acharia, please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

श्री यशवन्त सिन्हा : मैं राजनीति नहीं कर रहा हूं। मैंने बिलकुल प्रौफेशनल एप्रोच लेकर पश्चिम बंगाल के मुख्य मंत्री से दो-दो बार चर्चा की और मैंने उनसे कहा कि आपकी सरकार को क्या करना है। इनकी असेम्बली का एक डेलीगेशन मुझसे मिलने आया था, मैंने उनसे दो बातें कहीं और मैं इस बारे में दोहराना चाहता हूं और सदन में भी कहना चाहता हूं कि फ्लड का राजनीतिकरण मत करो और दूसरी बात मैंने यह कही कि रुपए का, पैसे का कलर क्या है, यह मत देखिए। अभी तो तत्काल वहां के लोगों को राहत पहुंचानी है। एकाउंट तो बाद में सैटल करेंगे। जब हम राहत देने जाएंगे, तो लोग हमसे यह नहीं पूछेंगे कि यह पैसा किस हैड से दिया जा रहा है। …( व्यवधान )

श्री बसुदेव आचार्य : आपने पैसा नहीं दिया है।…( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please take your seat.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, the State Government has spent more than Rs.500 crore. … (Interruptions)

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: It is their duty to spend it. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Basu Deb Acharia, you had your say earlier. Kindly resume your seat now.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, I would like to submit that the 11th Finance Commission has clearly stated that it is the responsibility of the State Governments to manage natural calamities and they have raised the allocation from Rs.6,000 crore to Rs.11,000 crore. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, when such a national calamity occurs, the Central Government is not showing any responsibility. … (Interruptions) He is politicising it. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Let the Minister reply. Do not interrupt him.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, I am not yielding. … (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Basu Deb Acharia, he is not yielding. Please take your seat now.

… (Interruptions)

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, a charge has been levelled that we have delayed in bringing the creation of Corpus matter to Parliament. There has been no delay. … (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Why was an ordinance not promulgated?

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Because they do not promulgate Ordinances for taxes. That is the reason… (Interruptions) They might do it in West Bengal, but we will not do that at the Centre… (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN : Under what rule you are all standing and speaking? Shri Acharia, you did not get my permission to speak.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: We will not promulgate because there are certain procedures. There has been no delay. This is the first opportunity that we could have come to Parliament for the creation of NCCF. It has come to the Parliament and after the Supplementary Demands are passed, this NCCF is created and the corpus of Rs.500 crore is created. We will then sit down and decide where and how to help various State Governments. We will certainly help West Bengal also. It is nobody""s case that we will not help West Bengal.

डॉ.विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा (दक्षिण दिल्ली):वित्त मंत्री जी, आप उनकी मदद कर रहे हैं परन्तु वह पैसा सी.पी.एम. के वर्कर्स को बांटने के लिए न जाये।…( व्यवधान )वह गवर्नमैंट की तरफ से जाये, इसको आप एश्योर करें।…( व्यवधान )

श्री सुदीप बंद्योपाध्याय (कलकत्ता उत्तर पश्चिम) : सभापति जी, हिसाब ठीक से दिया जाये।

…( व्यवधान )

कुंवर अखिलेश सिंह:सभापति जी, वित्त मंत्री जी पूरे उत्तर प्रदेश के लिए धन का प्रावधान राहत के लिए क्यों नहीं कर रहे हैं ? … ( व्यवधान )

श्री रामदास आठवले : सभापति जी, एमपीलैड का पैसा दो करोड़ रुपये से बढ़ाकर पांच करोड़ रुपये कीजिए। …( व्यवधान )

MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri Athawale, I have not granted you permission to speak. Please take your seat.

SHRI YASHWANT SINHA: Sir, a number of other issues have been raised, which are very specific in nature. They relate to other Ministries, I will be asking those Ministries to respond to the Members.

With these words, I conclude my remarks and hope that the House will pass the Supplementary Demands which are placed here.

(ends) MR. CHAIRMAN: The question is:

"That the respective sums not exceeding the amounts on the Revenue Account and Capital Account shown in the third column of the Order Paper be granted to the President out of the Consolidated Fund of India, of certain further sums necessary to defray the charges that will come in course of payment during the year ending the 31st March, 2001, in respect of heads of Demands entered in the second column thereof against Demand Nos. 1, 5, 8, 12, 13, 28, 30, 33, 39, 40, 41, 47, 48, 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 69, 75, 77, 81, 84, 85, 87 and 88. "

  The motion was adopted.

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