Lok Sabha Debates
Raised The Issue Of Staging A Marathi Play In Mumbai - "Mee Nathu Godse Boltoyae" ... on 17 July, 1998
nt> Title: Raised the issue of staging a Marathi play in Mumbai - "Mee Nathu Godse Boltoyae" and the Hon'ble Home Minister informed the House about the Government's views to disapprove the performance of the play.
12.03 hrs. MR. SPEAKER: Now, I call upon Shri Sharad Pawar to raise his issue.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. I will allow you. The Leader of the Opposition is on his legs.
श्री शरद पवार (बारामती) : अध्यक्ष जी, पार्िलयामैंट्री अफेयर्स मनिस्टर ने कल सदन के सामने कहा था कि नाथू राम के प्ले के बारे में जो बात है, जिसपर कंट्रोवर्सी शुरु हुई है, उसपर सरकार की तरफ से कल शाम तक या आज स्टेटमैंट आएगी। लेकिन अभी तक नहीं आया।
... (व्यवधान) ग्ृाह मंत्री (श्री लाल कृष्ण आडवाणी): मैंने एक बजे का समय मांगा था। आपकी अनुमति हो तो मैं अभी कर सकता हूं।
... (व्यवधान) श्री शरद पवार : इसमें जल्दी स्टेटमैंट देने की आवश्यकता है कयोंकि सदन के सामने नई बातें आने की परस्िथति पैदा हो रही है।
... (व्यवधान)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Mr. Speaker, Sir, we wish to make our submissions on the Business. Shri Advaniji may kindly wait for five to ten minutes. ...(Interruptions) श्री शरद पवार : इसके लेखक श्रीमान् प्रदीप दहलवी का एक इंटरव्यू आया है। उस इंटरव्यू में उन्होंने कहा है कि पिछले कई सालों से सैंसर बोर्ड इस नाटक की सहमति नहीं दे रहा था लेकिन महाराष्ट्र की नई सरकार ने हमें यह सहमति दे दी। ... (व्यवधान)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, I am not minimising the importance of the issue raised by the Leader of the Opposition. That is very important. ...(Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Let Shri Sharad Pawar complete. श्री शरद पवार : उन्होंने यह भी कहा कि "मैं नाथू राम बोलतोए", यह नाटक लाकर मैंने सर्िवस की है कयोंकि पिछले पचास सालों से नाथू राम की आवाज बंद की गई थी, उसकी इमेज खराब की गई थी। उसकी इमेज दुरुस्त करने की जिम्मेदारी मैंने अपने कंधे पर ली थी। उन्होंने यह भी कहा कि नाथू राम की इमेज इस तरह की करने की कोशिश की गई कि वह देश में कोई हत्यारा था। लेकिन नाथू राम की तुलना मैं सिर्फ भगत सिंह से कर सकता हूं, झांसी की रानी के साथ कर सकता हूं।
... (व्यवधान)इसलिए यह काम मैंने हाथ में लिया और मुझे खुशी है कि इसका लोगों की तरफ से बहुत स्वागत हो रहा है। उनसे सवाल पूछा गया कि आप इस नाटक से कया चाहते हैं? उन्होंने आखिरी जवाब दिया कि मैं इस नाटक से एक ही बात चाहता हूं कि नाटक देखने वाले नाटक देखने के बाद जब बाहर जाएं तो उनको गांधी जी का स्टैचू डिस्ट्रॉय करना चाहिए। और जिस सड़क को, जिस रास्ते को गांधी जी का नाम दिया है, वह नामफलक खत्म करना चाहिए, यह मेरी ख्वाहिश है। इस तरह की परस्िथति आज उसके लेखक के एक SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, in view of the importance of this subject, let the Home Minister respond to it.
">THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI L.K. ADVANI): During Zero Hour yesterday and again today, a serious concern has been expressed by some hon. Members and today, in my presence by the Leader of the Opposition on the alleged glorification of Nathuram Godse in a Marathi play, `Me Nathuram Godse Boltoy'. `Boltoy' means, I speak. The House was assured that the Central Government would ascertain the facts from the State Government and place them before Parliament. The matter was taken up with the Government of Maharashtra. According to information received from the State Government, the play in question was cleared for performance by the Maharashtra Stage Performance Scrutiny Board, an autonomous body of the State Government. The play was staged on the 10th of July, 1998 in Shivaji Mandir Theatre, Mumbai.
Keeping in view the reported intent of the play and appreciating the concern expressed in Parliament, the Central Government has advised the State Government to prohibit its performance. We also take this opportunity to emphasize that this Government strongly disapproves of anything that denigrates the hallowed memory of Mahatma Gandhi and belittles the unique role he played in leading the nation to freedom from colonialism. (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): The House should condemn it.
SHRI P. UPENDRA (VIJAYAWADA): The autonomous body which cleared the play must be disbanded immediately. The censor committee which cleared the play must be disbanded immediately. (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I may add to this. Immediately after getting the message from the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs that the issue had been raised in the House and an assurance had been given that either yesterday or today the Government would come forth with facts, I first asked my Home Secretary to speak to the Chief Secretary of Maharashtra to find out the facts. Then, later on, in the evening, in a different connection, the Chief Minister came to see me and I told him personally that this is my Government's view. And he said, "Well, if the Government's view is that, I would try to respect it and see what needs to be done."(Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : What is the view of the Maharashtra Government?(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Prof. Kurien, let him complete his speech.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I told him as the representative of the Central Government, I disapprove of it and we would like the State Government to take necessary steps to prohibit the performance of the play.
SHRI P. UPENDRA : The committee which has cleared the play must be disbanded.
">PROF. P.J. KURIEN (MAVELIKARA): Mr. Home Minister, but the problem is these autonomous bodies are not supposed to work against the fundamental ethos of this country...(Interruptions) Let me formulate my points. How can an autonomous body set up by the Maharashtra Government clear this play? The purpose of the play and the intent of the playwright is quitely evident that it is to denigrate Mahatma Gandhiji and glorify his assassin. How can that play be cleared? On behalf of all the Members, I am requesting that that body should be disbanded and action should be taken against them. They are working against the very fundamental ethos of the country.
... (व्यवधान) श्री सोमनाथ चटर्जी : यह राज्य का मामला नहीं है।
... (व्यवधान) श्री अजीत जोगी (रायगढ़): यह स्टेट की बात नहीं है, देश की अस्िमता की बात है, राष्ट्र की अस्िमता की बात है।
... (व्यवधान) प्रो. जोगेन्द्र कवाडे (चिमूर) : इसको स्टेट गवर्नमेंट ने किलयर किया है।
... (व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I will allow you.
">SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER (TENALI): The hon. Home Minister has just now in his statement told us that he had advised the State Government to prohibit the play. May I expect of him to issue a direction in terms of article 256 of the Constitution of India so that it is binding on the State? If it is necessary, he can do it.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I know that. I know what I can do. But at the same time, I do not think that that advice would be disregarded. It is an advice given to the State Government. But I would plead with the House that there are two issues involved in it. One is the State Government and then it is a body which was set up by the State Government, or working with it. We cannot discuss that. I do not know who the members of that committee were. We cannot be discussing that.
SHRI A.C. JOS (MUKUNDAPURAM): It is a question of the ethos of the country. Number of autonomous bodies are there. How can they work like that?
MR. SPEAKER: No please. Shri Jos, please take your seat. I have not allowed you. Please understand. Please take your seat.
">SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (MIDNAPORE): We understood the hon. Home Minister to say that when he discussed this matter with the Chief Minister and advised him that in view of what has happened, in view of all the concern which has been expressed and so on, it was better that he prohibited the play. I understood him to say that the Chief Minister, in deference to what the Central Home Minister had told him, then said that "All right, if that is the way you feel, then I will carry out your request."
Are we to infer from this that the attitude of the State Government before he had spoken to him was different to what he is now saying because they had allowed this thing to go on? Therefore, should we take it that way? Shri Manohar Joshi when he met him, did he make it clear or not that his request was in deference to that, to prohibiting the play, but that was not the independent view of the State Government? They had allowed it to be staged and they did not do anything to stop it.
">SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): The hon. Home Minister has said that the Central Government's role has only been advisory and he says now that "I believe that my advice will not be disregarded"; may be due to party loyalty.
But the question is much more fundamental.
I would like to know how the Central Government itself dealt with the matter. Until the matter was raised on the floor of the House and a great concern was shown by almost all the sections of the House, the Central Government obviously was not aware of the facts. It had come out in every newspaper. But what was the Central Government's response to this? Am I to expect or to take it from the Home Minister of India that the Government feels that it has no power, no authority, no legal sanctions in regard to attempts of such type which denigrate the very ethos of this country, the respect with which the Father of the Nation is held? There is a very serious likely danger of breach of peace or breach of communal peace in this country. In this, is the Central Government only a mere spectator? And is it that only when the matter is raised in the House the Central Government would have some role?
I would like to know one thing from the Central Government. The Central Government, we find, has been responding to any and every request to send teams to different States to find out the law and order situation beyond their jurisdiction for a tenuous interpretation of Article 355 of the Constitution. He knows all the provisions of the Constitution. He said, "Well, I know, I have the power. But I believe my party will be accepting my advice." Is this the way that this country will function in a matter like this? Therefore, we want to know categorically what has been the response of the Central Government and when such situations arise what will they do.
And what has happened to the book, the play that has been written? Has it been banned or not? We would like to know. We are against interference with the freedom of the Press or freedom of the authorship, freedom of thinking, but not this type of propaganda, this type of poison which is being spread all over the country. In fact, what is the Government of India's response to this?
SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA : Has the book been banned?
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : I asked him about it."> श्री राम विलास पासवान (हाजीपुर) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, यह मामला महाराष्ट्र सरकार से संबंधित है। जैसा कि होम मनिस्टर साहब ने कहा है, मैं समझता हूं कि किसी एक स्टेट को लेकर निर्णय नहीं किया जाना चाहिए। आज सदन के नोटिस में आया है कि महात्मा गांधी के संबंध में इस तरह की बातें कही गई हैं। कल संसंदीय कार्य मंत्री कह रहे थे कि उनको कल इसकी पूरी जानकारी नहीं थी। आज लीडर ऑफ अपोजीशन ने जिस प्रकार से लेख के संबंध में पढ़ कर सुनाया है और जैसा माननीय होम मनिस्टर साहब ने कहा है, उससे साफ हो जाता है कि राष्ट्रपिता महात्मा गांधी के संबंध में नाटक में जिस भाषा का प्रयोग किया गया है, वह न सिर्फ आपत्ितजनक है, बल्िक राष्ट्र की गरिमा को गिराने वाला कदम है। यह सही है कि होम मनिस्टर ने उनको एडवाइस किया है, लेकिन सवाल सिर्फ महाराष्ट्र राज्य का नहीं है। मैं जानना चाहता हूं, कया सरकार पूरे देश में इस तरह का कोई निर्देश देगी कि कोई भी राज्य संविधान के खिलाफ काम न करे और राष्ट्रीय नेता की इमेज को गिराने का काम न किया जाए? यह निर्देश पूरे देश में जाना चाहिए। नहीं तो इस तरह की पुनराव्ृात्ित होगी। एक बार आपने गाली दे दी और बाद में नाटक को वापिस ले लिया, उससे कया होगा। पहले जो नाटक हो गया है, उसको तो आप रोक नहीं सकते हैं।
... (व्यवधान)
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MAHABUBNAGAR): The whole House is aware of the fact that this was not an isolated incident in Mumbai. (Interruptions).
SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR (MUMBAI NORTH-WEST): We should also be given a chance to speak. (Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: I am only allowing clarifications.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI CHETAN CHAUHAN (AMROHA): Yesterday, most of the time was spent on this matter. (Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. ऐसा नहीं है।
... (Interruptions)
SHRI TAPAN SIKDAR (DUMDUM): We have expressed our concern in the matter. But today you are allowing only the Opposition Members. (Interruptions)."> संसदीय कार्य मंत्री तथा पर्यटन मंत्री (श्री मदन लाल खुराना): अध्यक्ष महोदय, कल इस विषय को उठाया गया था और लगभग एक घन्टे तक जो माननीय सदस्य आज बोले हैं, चाहे उनमें रेड्डी जी हो, सोमनाथ चैटर्जी जी हों, ये माननीय सदस्य कल बोल चुके हैं। इसके जवाब में मैंने सरकार की ओर से कहा था कि तथ्य इकट्ठे करके और सरकार का इसके बारे में कया व्यू है, वह आपको माननीय आडवाणी जी बता देंगे।
... (व्यवधान)आप मेरी बात सुन लीजिए।
... (व्यवधान)महोदय, राज्य सभा के अन्दर स्टेटमेंट देने के बाद स्पष्टीकरण हो सकता है, लेकिन इस सदन की परम्परा रही है कि संबंधित मंत्री जी द्वारा वकतव्य देने के बाद कोई प्रश्न नहीं पूछा जाता है। इसके बारे में आप कुछ कहें।
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Some of us are aware of the rules. (Interruptions). It was not a suo motu statement. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri I.K. Gujral.
SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Sir, in that case we should also be allowed to speak.
SHRI I.K. GUJRAL (JALANDHAR): Sir, I have heard with great respect what the hon. Home Minister has said. There is one more angle which I think should have drawn his attention...(Interruptions). There is one more aspect of it, to which Home Minister's attention should have been drawn by his Ministry by now. I have seen in the Press this morning that the Director of the Play, or the writer or whoever it is, has gone to the High Court of Mumbai and asked for a caveat. I would like the Home Minister to clarify to us if this is meant that by left hand the Government will stop it and by right hand the High Court will be sought to get a stay order, and that Play can go on. I want to know what steps the Home Minister is taking in that direction.
MR. SPEAKER: Would you like to say something, Mr. Home Minister?
... (व्यवधान) श्री मधुकर सरपोतदार : महोदय, हमें भी बोलने का मौका मिलना चाहिए।
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Sarpotdar, yesterday you had explained very well.
SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR Sir, yesterday everybody spoke. Shri Somnath Chatterjee spoke, Shri Ram Vilas Paswan spoke...(Interruptions).
SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN (HAJIPUR): No, I did not speak.
SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR (MUMBAI NORTH-WEST): Sir, I would like to know whether there is even one statement from a Minister where any such discussion is allowed after the statement is made. If this is the convention of this House, it should be continued in future also...(Interruptions).
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am on a point of order.
MR. SPEAKER: This is Zero Hour, Shri Reddy. Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY :I am on a point of order, Sir.
MR. SPEAKER: There is no point of order. This is Zero Hour. Please take your seat.
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Sir, the Parliamentary Affairs Minister has said that after the Minister's statement, nobody else can intervene. The Minister did not make a suo motu statement; he made a statement in response to our request...(Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Reddy, I have given permission to the Minister. Please take your seat. श्री लाल कृष्ण आडवाणी : महोदय, भारत सरकार महात्मा गांधी के प्रति अपमानकारक किसी भी बात को, प्रदर्शन को, नाटक आदि को अस्वीकार करती है और उसको प्रतिबंधित करने की दिशा में जो भी आवश्यक कदम होगा वह उठाएगी। यह राज्य सरकार द्वारा गठित एक आटोनोमस बाडी थी, इसलिए उनको फर्सट स्टेज पर सलाह दी गई। जैसे मैंने पहले कहा कि वह सलाह मानी जाएगी, जो बात इन्द्रजीत जी ने कही। मैंने कभी नहीं कहा कि मनोहर जोशी जी ठीक कहते हैं या उन्होंने ऐसा कहा। मैंने जो कुछ कहा उसी का मैंने जिक़ किया, मुख्य मंत्री ने कया कहा, उसका मैंने जिक़ नहीं किया। मुझे स्वयं लगता है कि जोशी जी भी मेरी बात से सहमत थे, उन्होंने कोई असहमति प्रकट नहीं की। ... (व्यवधान) श्री राजेश पायलट (दौसा) : उन्होंने कहा कि आपकी ऐसी इच्छा है।
That is what he has pointed out. श्री लाल कृष्ण आडवाणी : मैंने उसे कहा, मैंने एडवाइज़ शब्द का प्रयोग जरूर किया लेकिन मैंने डायरेकट शब्द नहीं कहा। शिव शंकर जी ने जो बात कही, जो संविधान का अधिकार है, स्टेट गवर्नमेंट को किसी एक विशेष संदर्भ में डायरेकशंस देने का अधिकार है। मैं समझता हूं कि यह वह स्िथति नहीं है, मैंने कहा कि मैंने उन्हें सलाह दी और मुझे विश्वास है कि उस सलाह को वे स्वीकार करेंगे।
... (व्यवधान)MR. SPEAKER: No further clarifications on this. Now Shri Hari Kewal Prasad.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, what about the Business for the next week? This is a very serious matter...(Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Hari Kewal Prasad.
... (Interruptions)
_____ MR. SPEAKER: Only the speech of Shri Hari Kewal Prasad will go on record.
(Interruptions)* श्री हरिकेवल प्रसाद (सलेमपुर) : अध्यक्ष जी, उत्तर प्रदेश में बाढ़ आई है ... (व्यवधान) अडवाणी जी ने आपकी बात को साफ कर दिया है, आप मुझे बोलने दें।
... (व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Somnath Chatterjee, they are making some arrangements.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Let us know what arrangements they are making. ....(Interruptions)
SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE (PANSKURA): I want to know from the Minister when the Government is bringing the Constitution (Amendment) Bill providing reservation to women .....(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: They are having some arrangements. I will tell you.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Hari Kewal Prasad.