Lok Sabha Debates
Discussion On The Motion Of Confidence In The Council Of Ministers Moved By Shri ... on 17 April, 1999
Title:Discussion on the motion of Confidence in the Council of Ministers moved by Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. (Contd. - Concluded.) MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Prime Minister, Shri Vajpayee, please.
... (Interruptions)
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ (BARAMULLA): Please give me five minutes' time.
MR. SPEAKER: No, please.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You cannot speak because yesterday's sitting went up to six o' clock of today morning. Please take your seat.
PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ : Please allow me for five minutes.
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Please allow him for one minute.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Prof. Soz, please take your seat. Now, the Prime Minister.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Prof. Soz, please take your seat. You cannot speak now. Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. Now, the Prime Minister please.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : You allow him one minute.
KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE (CALCUTTA SOUTH): No. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: There is no such procedure. Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: There is no such procedure. Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Sathiamoorthy and Shri Muthiah, please take your seats.
... (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF POWER, MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF NON-CONVENTIONAL ENERGY SOURCES (SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM): We are telling that we sat till 5.45 in the morning. What is this?
SHRI VAIKO (SIVAKASI): Let the Prime Minister speak now.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. When this is not the practice, I am not allowing you.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Acharia, you are a senior Member. What is this? Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Now, the hon. Prime Minister, please.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. Shri Lalu Prasad, please understand this is not the procedure. What is this? Please take your seat.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN (MAVELIKARA): Please allow me to speak for one minute.
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat. How can I allow you? Please understand this is not the procedure. Yesterday's sitting went up to six o' clock of today morning. Please understand this.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Yesterday's sitting went up to six o' clock of today morning. Please understand.
SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (BARAMATI): It is a sensitive issue. Please allow me for only one minute.
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Sharad Pawar, I am appealing to you, do not create any new precedent.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN : He was not here yesterday.
MR. SPEAKER: Yesterday's sitting went up to six o' clock of today morning.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chaubey, please take your seat.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is not good. You are all senior Members. Please understand.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Senior Members should not behave like this.
Now, the Prime Minister, Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee.
|ÉvÉÉxÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ (¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ): +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, {É®úºÉÉäÆ Ê´É¶´ÉÉºÉ |ɺiÉÉ´É {É®ú SÉSÉÉÇ +É®ú¨¦É Eò®úiÉä ½þÖB ¨ÉèÆxÉä ªÉ½þ Eò½þÉ lÉÉ ÊEò ¨ÉèÆ EòÖUô Eò½þxÉä ºÉä {ɽþ±Éä ºÉÖxÉxÉÉ SÉɽþÚÆMÉÉ* +¤É +ÉVÉ ¨Éä®úÒ ¤ÉÉ®úÒ ½þè, <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ¯ûEòÉ´É]õ xɽþÒÆ b÷ɱÉÒ VÉÉxÉÒ SÉÉʽþB* |ÉÊiÉ{ÉIÉ EòÒ +Éä®ú ºÉä ªÉ½þ ʶÉEòɪÉiÉ EòÒ MÉ<Ç ½þè ÊEò +±{ɨÉiÉ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉiÉä ½þÒ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É (ºÉ¨¦É±É): +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉÉ<Eò `öÒEò xɽþÒÆ ½þè, <ºÉä ºÉÖvÉ®ú´ÉɪÉäÆ* MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Prime Minister, could you please use the second mike also? ¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ: +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉÉäÆ EòÉä vÉxªÉ´ÉÉnù nùäiÉÉ ½þÚÆ, ´Éä ¨ÉÖZÉä ºÉÖxÉxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ* ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É : +É{ÉEòÉä iÉÉä ½þ¨É ºÉÖxÉxÉÉ ½þÒ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ* ¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ: ¨ÉèÆ Eò½þ ®ú½þÉ lÉÉ ÊEò ªÉ½þ ʶÉEòɪÉiÉ EòÒ MÉ<Ç ½þè +Éè®ú <ºÉEòä ʱÉB ¨ÉÖZÉ {É®ú +É®úÉä{É ±ÉMÉɪÉÉ MɪÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ¨ÉèÆxÉä ®úÉVÉxÉèÊiÉEò xÉèÊiÉEòiÉÉ EòÉ {ÉɱÉxÉ xɽþÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ* ºÉƺÉnù EòÒ ¤Éè`öEò SÉ±É ®ú½þÒ ½þè* |ÉÊiÉÊnùxÉ ºÉnùºªÉÉäÆ EòÉä, |ÉÊiÉ{ÉIÉ EòÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú Eòä ʴɯûr ¨ÉiÉnùÉxÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ +´ÉºÉ®ú ʨɱÉxÉä ´ÉɱÉÉ lÉÉ* ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É : ºÉ¤ÉºÉä {ɽþ±Éä +É{É SÉÆpù¶ÉäJÉ®ú VÉÒ EòÉä =xÉEòä VÉx¨É ÊnùxÉ {É®ú ¤ÉvÉÉ<Ç nùä nùÒÊVÉB ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. SPEAKER: When the Leader of the House is speaking, do not disturb him. ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É : EªÉÉ ¤ÉvÉÉ<Ç ¦ÉÒ xɽþÒÆ nùäxÉä nùÉäMÉä* ¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ: ¨ÉèÆ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ... 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"By their very nature, regional parties lack a national perspective and can never rise above local ethnic considerations. They adopt populist platforms for coming to power. They incite narrow linguistic or ethnic sentiments. Very soon these agendas become a recipe for economic disaster and social turmoil." +MÉ®ú IÉäjÉÒªÉ nù±ÉÉäÆ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þ +ÉÆEò±ÉxÉ ½þè, iÉÉä =xÉEòä ºÉÉlÉ MÉ`ö¤ÉÆvÉxÉ +É{É EòèºÉä Eò®úäÆMÉä, ÊEòºÉ +ÉvÉÉ®ú {É®ú Eò®úäÆMÉä? IÉäjÉÒªÉ nù±ÉÉäÆ Eòä +±ÉÉ´ÉÉ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ xÉä ®úÒVÉxÉ±É {ÉÉ]õÒÇWÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ Ê]õ{{ÉhÉÒ EòÒ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ =ºÉä ¦ÉÒ =rÞiÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ´ÉɨɨÉÉMÉÒÇ Ê¨ÉjÉ =ºÉä ºÉÖxÉ ±ÉäÆ* "As for the Left Parties, even after seven decades, the CPI and the CPM, have not been able to integrate themselves into the national mainstream." ªÉ½þ MÉƦÉÒ®ú +É®úÉä{É ½þè* ªÉ½þ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ ¨ÉèxÉÒ¡òäº]õÉä EòÉ Ê½þººÉÉ ½þè, BEò =nPÉÉä¹ÉhÉÉ ½þè* +¤É ¶ÉɪÉnù <ºÉʱÉB MÉ`ö¤ÉÆvÉxÉ ½þÉä ®ú½þÉ ½þè ÊEò ±Éè¡]õ {ÉÉ]õÒÇVÉ EòÉä xÉè¶ÉxÉ±É ¨Éäxɺ]ÅÒ¨É ¨ÉäÆ ±ÉÉxÉä EòÒ EòÉäÊ¶É¶É ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þè* SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): We do not need their certificate either way. ¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ: VÉxÉiÉÉ nù±É +ºÉ¨ÉÆVÉºÉ ¨ÉäÆ lÉÉ* {ÉiÉÉ xɽþÒÆ, =ºÉxÉä EªÉÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè ±ÉäÊEòxÉ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ xÉä VÉxÉiÉÉ nù±É EòÉ ÊVÉºÉ ¦ÉɹÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ =±±ÉäJÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè, =ºÉä VÉxÉiÉÉ nù±É Eòä ʨÉjÉÉäÆ EòÉä Ê¡ò®ú ºÉä ªÉÉnù Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉʽþB* "The Janata Dal was born in a convulsive fit of anti-Congressism in 1989. It is a collection of disparate groups and embittered individuals driven by egos. It can hardly be called a serious political formation. Like an amoeba, it lives on splitting itself into smaller and smaller groups. Its platform of social justice is hollow and is just a misleading cover for the practice of a divisive caste politics." +MÉ®ú ʨɱÉxÉ EòÉ ªÉ½þ +ÉvÉÉ®ú ¤ÉxÉxÉä ´ÉɱÉÉ ½þè, iÉÉä Ê¡ò®ú ʺlÉ®úiÉÉ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ EòÉä<Ç +lÉÇ xɽþÒÆ ®úJÉiÉÒ ½þèÆ* ¨Éä®úÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä +ʺlÉ®ú Eò®úxÉä EòÒ EòÉäÊ¶É¶É EòÒ MÉ<Ç +Éè®ú ¨Éä®úÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú {É®ú ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ +É®úÉä{É ±ÉMÉɪÉÉ MɪÉÉ ÊEò <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ +ÆiÉÊ´ÉÇ®úÉävÉ ºÉä OɺiÉ {ÉÉÊ]õǪÉÉÆ ½þèÆ* +É{É ÊVÉºÉ føÉÆSÉä EòÉä JÉc÷É Eò®úxÉä EòÉ Ê´ÉSÉÉ®ú Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú VÉÉä {ÉÚ®úÉ xɽþÒÆ ½þÉäMÉÉ, ´É½þ EªÉÉ BEò Ê´ÉSÉÉ®ú ºÉä +xÉÖ|ÉÉÊhÉiÉ ½þè? EªÉÉ EòÉä<Ç EòɪÉÇFò¨É ½þè, EªÉÉ xÉäiÞÉi´É BEò ½þè? =ºÉ ÊnùxÉ ¸ÉÒ ±ÉɱÉÚ |ɺÉÉnù VÉÒ xÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò +É{É ½þ]õ VÉÉ<ªÉä, ½þ¨É {ÉÉÆSÉ Ê¨ÉxÉ]õ ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ BEò ʨÉxÉ]õ ¨ÉäÆ Ê´ÉEò±{É JÉc÷É Eò®ú ±ÉäÆMÉä* EªÉÉ =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ºÉnùxÉ EòÉä ʴɶ´ÉÉºÉ ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ Ê±ÉªÉÉ VÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉʽþB lÉÉ? EªÉÉ nùä¶É EòÉä ªÉ½þ VÉÉxÉxÉä EòÉ +ÊvÉEòÉ®ú xɽþÒÆ ½þè ÊEò VÉxÉÉnùä¶É ºÉä ¤ÉxÉÒ ½þÖ<Ç ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä +É{É ½þ]õÉxÉä EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +MÉ®ú ÊEòºÉÒ EòÉä VÉxÉÉnùä¶É lÉÉ, iÉÉä ´É½þ ½þ¨ÉEòÉä lÉÉ, +É{ÉEòÉä iÉÉä xɽþÒÆ lÉÉ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI RAJESH PILOT (DAUSA): Ten parties have got 25 per cent and our party alone has got 21 per cent votes. ¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, iÉä®ú½þ ¨É½þÒxÉä Eòä EòɪÉÇEòÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉxÉä +{ÉxÉä EòɪÉÇFò¨É EòÉä EòɪÉÉÇÊx´ÉiÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ |ɪÉÉºÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Sir, this running commentary should be stopped immediately otherwise, we will interrupt.
MR. SPEAKER: There should be no running commentary please. What is this? ¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ : ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ +ÉvÉÉ®ú xÉè¶ÉxÉ±É BVÉèÆb÷É ½þè* ½þ¨ÉxÉä =ºÉEòä +ÉvÉÉ®ú {É®ú +ÉMÉä ¤ÉgøxÉä EòÉ |ɪÉÉºÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè* xÉè¶ÉxÉ±É BVÉèÆb÷É {ÉÉÆSÉ ºÉÉ±É EòÉ EòɪÉÇFò¨É ½þè* =ºÉä ÊxÉʶSÉiÉ EòɪÉÉÇ´ÉÊvÉ ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÚ®úÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ <®úÉnùÉ ½þè* EªÉÉ EòÉä<Ç <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉä <ÆEòÉ®ú Eò®ú ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨ÉxÉä VÉ¤É ºÉiiÉÉ ºÉƦÉɱÉÒ, =ºÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ nùä¶É EòÒ VÉÉä ʺlÉÊiÉ lÉÒ, =ºÉ ʺlÉÊiÉ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÖvÉÉ®ú ½þÖ+É ½þè? SÉɽþä ´É½þ nùä¶É EòÒ ºÉÖ®úIÉÉ EòÉ ºÉ´ÉÉ±É ½þÉä, +lÉÇ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ EòÉ |ɶxÉ ½þÉä, +xªÉ nùä¶ÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ EòÚ]õxÉÒÊiÉEò ºÉƤÉÆvÉÉäÆ EòÉ ¨ÉÖqÉ ½þÉä, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ nùÉ´ÉÉ +ÊvÉEòÉ®ú{ÉÚhÉÇ ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨ÉxÉä ½þ®úäEò IÉäjÉ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉMÉä ¤ÉgøxÉä EòÉ |ɪÉÉºÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ¡ò±ÉiÉÉ {ÉÉ<Ç ½þè* ªÉ½þ +ɶSɪÉÇ ½þè ÊEò {É®ú¨ÉÉhÉÖ {É®úÒIÉhÉ EòÒ ¦ÉÒ +ɱÉÉäSÉxÉÉ EòÒ MÉ<Ç* {ÉÚUôÉ MɪÉÉ ÊEò nùä¶É Eòä ºÉɨÉxÉä EòÉèxÉ ºÉÉ JÉiÉ®úÉ lÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ 1974 ¨ÉäÆ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ lÉÉ VÉ¤É ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ <ÆÊnù®úÉ MÉÉÆvÉÒ Eòä xÉäiÞÉi´É ¨ÉäÆ {É®ú¨ÉÉhÉÖ {É®úÒIÉhÉ ÊEòªÉÉ MɪÉÉ lÉÉ* ½þ¨ÉxÉä =ºÉEòÉ º´ÉÉMÉiÉ ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ* ½þ¨É |ÉÊiÉ{ÉIÉ ¨ÉäÆ lÉä Ê¡ò®ú ¦ÉÒ º´ÉÉMÉiÉ ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ EªÉÉäÆÊEò ´É½þ nùä¶É EòÒ ®úIÉÉ Eòä ʱÉB ÊEòªÉÉ MɪÉÉ lÉÉ* =ºÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ EòÉèxÉ ºÉÉ JÉiÉ®úÉ lÉÉ? EªÉÉ +Éi¨É-®úIÉÉ EòÒ iÉèªÉÉ®úÒ iɦÉÒ ½þÉäMÉÒ VÉ¤É JÉiÉ®úÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ? +MÉ®ú {ɽþ±Éä ºÉä iÉèªÉÉ®úÒ ½þÉä iÉÉä VÉÉä JÉiÉ®úÉ +ÉxÉä ´ÉɱÉÉ ½þè, ´É½þ JÉiÉ®úÉ ¦ÉÒ nùÚ®ú ½þÉä VÉÉBMÉÉ, JÉiÉ®úÉ +¨É±É ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ +ÉBMÉÉ +Éè®ú <ºÉÒʱÉB ½þ¨ÉxÉä {É®ú¨ÉÉhÉÖ {É®úÒIÉhÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ÊEòªÉÉ* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä EòɪÉÇFò¨É EòÉ +ÆMÉ ½þè, =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ Ê±ÉJÉÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè, EòÉä<Ç UôÖ{ÉÒ ½þÖ<Ç ¤ÉÉiÉ xɽþÒÆ lÉÒ, EòÉä<Ç ®ú½þºªÉ xɽþÒÆ lÉÉ* {É®ú¨ÉÉhÉÖ {É®úÒIÉhÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ¸ÉÒ SÉÆpù ¶ÉäJÉ®ú VÉÒ xÉä EòÖUô Ê´ÉSÉÉ®ú ´ªÉEiÉ ÊEòB ½þèÆ* ¨ÉÖZÉä JÉänù ½þè ÊEò ¨ÉèÆ =xÉEòä Ê´ÉSÉÉ®úÉäÆ ºÉä ºÉ½þ¨ÉiÉ xɽþÒÆ ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÉ* =xÉEòä ÊSÉÆiÉxÉ EòÒ BEò Ê´Éʶɹ]õ vÉÉ®úÉ ½þè* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ {ÉSÉÉºÉ ºÉÉ±É EòÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ +xÉÖ¦É´É EªÉÉ ¤ÉiÉÉiÉÉ ½þè* EªÉÉ ®úIÉÉ Eòä ¨ÉɨɱÉä ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉäÆ +Éi¨ÉÊxɦÉÇ®ú xɽþÒÆ ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉʽþB? Eòä´É±É BEò {Éc÷ÉäºÉÒ xɽþÒÆ, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä +xÉäEò {Éc÷ÉäºÉÒ ½þèÆ* <ºÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ªÉÚ®úÉä{É ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉ ½þÉä ®ú½þÉ ½þè, ´É½þ BEò SÉäiÉÉ´ÉxÉÒ ½þè* {ÉÉäJÉ®úhÉ-
II ]õèº]õ EòÉä<Ç +Éi¨É-¶±ÉÉJÉÉ Eòä ʱÉB xɽþÒÆ lÉÉ* ´É½þ EòÉä<Ç {ÉÖ¯û¹ÉÉlÉÇ Eòä |ÉEò]õÒEò®úhÉ Eòä ʱÉB xɽþÒÆ lÉÉ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ xÉÒÊiÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ¨ÉèÆ ºÉ¨ÉZÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ªÉ½þ nùä¶É EòÒ xÉÒÊiÉ ®ú½þÒ ½þè ÊEò ʨÉÊxÉ¨É¨É Êb÷]õ®úäÆ]õ ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉʽþB* ´É½þ FòäÊb÷¤É±É ¦ÉÒ ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉʽþB, <ºÉÒʱÉB {É®úÒIÉhÉ EòÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ÊEòªÉÉ MɪÉÉ* =ºÉEòä EòÉ®úhÉ EòÖUô EòÊ`öxÉÉ<ªÉÉÆ +ɪÉäÆMÉÒ, ªÉ½þ ½þ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉɱÉÚ¨É lÉÉ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ nùä¶É =xÉ EòÊ`öxÉÉ<ªÉÉäÆ EòÉ ºÉ¡ò±ÉiÉÉ{ÉÚ´ÉÇEò ºÉɨÉxÉÉ Eò®úäMÉÉ, ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ ½þ¨ÉEòÉä ʴɶ´ÉÉºÉ lÉÉ +Éè®ú BäºÉÉ ½þÒ ½þÖ+É* +ÉÊlÉÇEò |ÉÊiɤÉxvÉ ½þ¨ÉäÆ +ÉMÉä ¤ÉgøxÉä ºÉä xɽþÒÆ ®úÉäEò ºÉEòä* ®úIÉÉ ºÉ¨¤ÉxvÉÒ ¡òèºÉ±Éä Eò®úxÉä ºÉä ½þ¨ÉäÆ Ê´É®úiÉ xɽþÒÆ Eò®ú ºÉEòä* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ {É®úÒIÉhÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ½þ¨ÉxÉä ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ Bä±ÉÉxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ÊEò ½þ¨É {É®ú¨ÉÉhÉÖ ½þÊlɪÉÉ®úÉäÆ EòÉ |ɪÉÉäMÉ Eò®úxÉä ¨ÉäÆ {ɽþ±É xɽþÒÆ Eò®úäÆMÉä, xÉÉä ¡òºÉÇ]õ ªÉÚWÉ* ½þ¨ÉxÉä ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ Eò½þÉ ÊEò ÊVÉxÉEòä {ÉÉºÉ {É®ú¨ÉÉhÉÖ ¶ÉºjÉ xɽþÒÆ ½þèÆ, ½þ¨É =xÉEòä ʴɯûr =xÉEòÉ ={ɪÉÉäMÉ xɽþÒÆ Eò®úäÆMÉä* ½þ¨ÉxÉä {É®úÒIÉhÉ ¤Éxnù Eò®úxÉä EòÉ ¦ÉÒ Bä±ÉÉxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ* ºÉSɨÉÖSÉ ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÉäJÉ®úhÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨É BEò +Éè®ú {É®úÒIÉhÉ Eò®ú ºÉEòiÉä lÉä, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ VÉ¤É ½þ¨ÉäÆ ±ÉMÉÉ ÊEò ´ÉèYÉÉÊxÉEò iÉEòÉVÉÉ {ÉÚ®úÉ ½þÉä MɪÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä =ºÉ {É®úÒIÉhÉ EòÉä ½þ¨ÉxÉä UôÉäc÷ ÊnùªÉÉ* B]õ¨ÉÒ ½þÊlɪÉÉ®ú ®úIÉÉ Eòä ʱÉB ¦ÉÒ ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þè* ªÉÖr ]õɱÉxÉä Eòä ʱÉB =xÉEòÉ |ɪÉÉäMÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè* <iÉxÉä ´É¹ÉÉäÇÆ iÉEò ªÉÚ®úÉä{É ¨ÉäÆ ¶ÉÉÊxiÉ ®ú½þÒ, nùÉä ʶÉÊ´É®úÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÆ]õä ½þÖB ʴɶ´É ¨ÉäÆ ªÉÖr xɽþÒÆ ½þÖ+É, <ºÉEòä ¨ÉÚ±É ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þÒÆ xÉ Eò½þÒÆ ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ lÉÒ ÊEò ¶ÉÊEiÉ ºÉÆiÉÖ±ÉxÉ ½þè +Éè®ú <ºÉʱÉB BEò nùںɮúä EòÉä Uôäc÷xÉä ºÉä ¤ÉÉWÉ +ÉxÉÉ SÉÉʽþB* Êb÷]õ®úäÆ]õ Eòä {ÉÒUôä ªÉ½þÒ {ÉÊ®úEò±{ÉxÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉ {É®ú ºÉÉ®úÉ ºÉnùxÉ Ê´ÉSÉÉ®ú Eò®úä, <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÒ +ɴɶªÉEòiÉÉ ½þè* +ɱÉÉäSÉxÉÉ iÉÉä +ÊMxÉ-
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... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨ÉÖZÉä ¨ÉɱÉÚ¨É ½þè* ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É : Eò¦ÉÒ xɽþÒÆ ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þè* ¸ÉÒ +]õ±É ʤɽþÉ®úÒ ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ ºÉnùxÉ ºÉä +{ÉÒ±É Eò®úxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ¡òèºÉ±Éä EòÉ ´ÉEiÉ +É MɪÉÉ ½þè* +É{É iÉªÉ EòÊ®úB* ½þ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä ºÉä´ÉÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ ¨ÉÉèEòÉ Ê¨É±ÉÉ lÉÉ, ½þ¨ÉxÉä 13 ¨É½þÒxÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ lÉÉäc÷É ºÉÉ ºÉÆEòäiÉ ÊnùªÉÉ ½þè ÊEò +MÉ®ú ½þ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÚ®úÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ʨɱÉäMÉÉ iÉÉä ½þ¨É nùä¶É EòÉ ÊEòºÉ iÉ®ú½þ ºÉä EòɪÉÉEò±{É Eò®úäÆMÉä? +ÉÊJÉ®ú SÉÖxÉÉ´É {ÉÉÆSÉ ºÉÉ±É Eòä ʱÉB ½þÉäiÉä ½þèÆ* 13 ¨É½þÒxÉä EòÉ EòÉ±É EòÉä<Ç ¤É½þÖiÉ ±É¨¤ÉÉ EòÉ±É xɽþÒÆ ½þè ±ÉäÊEòxÉ 13 ¨É½þÒxÉä ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉxÉä BäºÉÒ ®úäJÉÉBÆ JÉÒÆSÉÒ ½þèÆ VÉÉä EòÉ±É Eòä Eò{ÉÉ±É {É®ú +ʨÉ]õ ®ú½þäÆMÉÒ, ÊVÉx½þäÆ ¤Énù±ÉÉ xɽþÒÆ VÉÉ ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þè* =xÉEòÒ +ɱÉÉäSÉxÉÉ Eò®úEòä iÉlªÉÉäÆ {É®ú {ÉnùÉÇ xɽþÒÆ b÷ɱÉÉ VÉÉ ºÉEòiÉÉ* ´ªÉÊEiÉMÉiÉ +É®úÉä{É ±ÉMÉÉ Eò®ú +{ÉxÉÒ ZÉÖÆZɱÉɽþ]õ, Eòc÷´Éɽþ]õ |ÉEò]õ Eò®úEòä VÉÉä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ={ɱÉʤvɪÉÉÆ ½þèÆ, =xÉ {É®ú {ÉÉxÉÒ xɽþÒÆ ¡òä®úÉ VÉÉ ºÉEòiÉÉ* VÉÉä +ÉäÊ{ÉÊxɪÉxÉ {ÉÉä±É ½þÉä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, +É{É =xÉEòÉä ¨ÉiÉ ¨ÉÉÊxÉB* EªÉÉ ´É½þ VÉxɨÉiÉ EòÉ |ÉEò]õÒEò®úhÉ xɽþÒÆ ½þè? ±ÉÉäMÉ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú SɱÉä* ±ÉÉäMÉ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò ½þ¨ÉäÆ ºÉä´ÉÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ +ÉMÉä ¨ÉÉèEòÉ Ê¨É±Éä* ¨ÉÖZÉä ʴɶ´ÉÉºÉ ½þè ÊEò ªÉ½þ ºÉnùxÉ <ºÉÒ {ÉIÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ Eò®úäMÉÉ* ¤É½þÖiÉ-¤É½þÖiÉ vÉxªÉ´ÉÉnù* MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your respective seats.
SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the Chief Minister of Orissa is here. He has come here. He may be a Member but he wants to be the Chief Minister. At the same time, will he vote here? Will it be ethical also? I would like to know about it...(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, I am appealing to you to take your seats first.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats.
... (Interruptions) +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¸ÉÒ ¡òÉiɨÉÒ, +É{É ¤Éè`ö VÉÉ<B* Shri Basu Deb Acharia, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions) +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¸ÉÒ ´ÉähÉÖMÉÉä{ÉɱÉSÉÉ®úÒ, +É{É ¤Éè`ö VÉÉ<B* Hon. Members, please take your setas.
... (Interruptions) +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{É {±ÉÒWÉ ¤Éè`ö VÉÉ<B* ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, Shri P.R. Kumaramangalam has requested that Shrimati Vijaya Raje Scindia and Shri Shivraj Singh Chouhan, who are seriously ill and have been brought into the Lobby by wheel chairs, may be permitted to cast their votes in the Inner Lobby. If the House agrees, they may be permitted to cast their votes in the Inner Lobby.
SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yes.
MR. SPEAKER: A doctor may also be kept there for attending to her.
SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM: Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have written a letter to you regarding the normal method which is adopted. I wonder what the Leader of Opposition feels about it. There is a precedent, there are rulings. I would request you to kindly rule whether that is permitted or not permitted with regard to the voting by the Chief Minister of Orissa.
SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (BARAMATI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is a regular Member of this House. He has not resigned from his membership and he is not a Member of any other House. So, as an elected Member of this House, he has got every right to cast his vote in the House on this particular occasion.
THE MINISTER OF STEEL AND MINES (SHRI NAVEEN PATNAIK): Mr. Speaker, Sir, let him go to Orissa and do his job there.
SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM: Sir, he receives emoluments from the State Government of Orissa, from the Consolidated Fund of Orissa. That being so ... (Interruptions)
SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (BARAMATI): He never exercised his voting right in the State Assembly because he is not a Member of the State Assembly and that is why, he has got every right to vote here. Unless and until he resigns from the membership of this House, he has got every right to vote here. ¸ÉÒ ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ (´Éè¶ÉɱÉÒ): ªÉ½þ EòÉxÉÚxÉ EòÒ B.¤ÉÒ.ºÉÒ. +Éè®ú ºÉƺÉnùÒªÉ {É®ú¨{É®úÉ+ÉäÆ EòÉä xɽþÒÆ VÉÉxÉiÉä ½þèÆ* SHRI NAVEEN PATNAIK: Let him go and work in Orissa. There is plenty of work to do in Orissa. Let him go back to the Secretariat in Bhubaneswar. ...(Interruptions) Let him go back to Orissa. (Interruptions) He receives salary from the State Government of Orissa. Let him go back there. (Interruptions)
SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Mr. Speaker, Sir, he is the Chief Minister of Orissa. How can he come here and vote? (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please go to your seat.
... (Interruptions) +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{É ¤Éè`ö VÉÉ<ªÉä, =x½þäÆ EªÉÉäÆ Êb÷º]õ¤ÉÇ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ? ¸ÉÒ ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ (´Éè¶ÉɱÉÒ): <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ EòÉxÉÚxÉ EòÒ EòÉä<Ç MÉÖÆVÉÉ<¶É xɽþÒÆ ½þè, +É{ÉEòÉä ´ÉÉä]õ ®úÉäEòxÉä EòÉ EòÉä<Ç +ÊvÉEòÉ®ú xɽþÒÆ ½þè* <ºÉ ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ÊxÉªÉ¨É Eò½þiÉÉ ½þè, ºÉƺÉnùÒªÉ |ÉhÉɱÉÒ Eò½þiÉÒ ½þè* <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ MɱÉiÉ {ÉÊ®ú{ÉÉ]õÒ xɽþÒÆ b÷ɱÉÒ VÉÉxÉÒ SÉÉʽþB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except what Shri Shiv Shanker says.
(Interruptions)* ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É : =x½þäÆ ´ÉÉä]õ nùäxÉä EòÉ +ÊvÉEòÉ®ú ½þè, ´ÉÉä]õ b÷ɱÉxÉÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü ½þÉä MɪÉÉ ½þè, +É{É ¤É]õxÉ nù¤ÉÉ<ªÉä ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI K. KARUNAKARAN (THIRUVANANTHAPURAM): There are a number of precedents. I can quote any number of precedents.
MR. SPEAKER: I have called Shri Shiv Shanker.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : What is the justification? ... (Interruptions) How can he be disqualified?
MR. SPEAKER: I have called Shri P. Shiv Shanker.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Under the Constitution, only the President of India can disqualify a Member. There is a well-known procedure. How can he be disqualified? ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I have called Shri Shiv Shanker. Are you going to say anything?
SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER (TENALI): Yes. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Shiv Shanker wants to raise something. I have called him.
... (Interruptions)
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
* Not Recorded.
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Rao, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: What is this?
... (Interruptions)
SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER : Sir, a meaningless and a bogus argument has been raised for the sake of raising that point. ... (Interruptions) Why do you go on interrupting me? ... (Interruptions) After a person is elected, he has to take the oath or affirmation under article 99 of the Constitution which Shri Giridhar Gamang had taken. I will read article 99:
"Every member of either House of Parliament shall, before taking his seat, make and subscribe before the President, or some person appointed in that behalf by him, an oath or affirmation according to the form set out for the purpose in the Third Schedule."
Shri Girdihar Gamang had done that. Then, the vacation of seat or the disqualification of a Member takes place only by virtue of article 101 of the Constitution which reads as under:
"(1) No person shall be a member of both Houses of Parliament and provision shall be made by Parliament by law for the vacation by a person who is chosen a member of both Houses of his seat in one House or the other.
(2) No person shall be a member both of Parliament and of a House of the Legislature of a State..."
That is important. He is not a Member of the House of the Legislature. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER : "...and if a person is chosen a Member both of Parliament and of a House of the Legislature of a State, then at the expiration of such period..."
He must be elected as a Member of the Legislature, it is only then at the expiration of such period. ... (Interruptions) Please see Article 101(2) where it is written:
"No person shall be a Member both of Parliament and of a House of the Legislature of a State, and if a person is chosen a Member both of Parliament..." -- he must be chosen -- "...and of a House of the Legislature of a State, then, at the expiration of such period as may be specified in rules made by the President, that person's seat in Parliament shall become vacant,..."
Now, since he has not been elected there, therefore he continues to be a Member here. There are precedents. Shri Bansi Lal, as the Chief Minister of Haryana, had come here to vote. There are precedents of that nature, so I think, there is no basis in that... (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF HUMAN RESOURCE DEVELOPMENT, MINISTER OF SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY AND MINISTER OF DEPARTMENT OF OCEAN DEVELOPMENT (DR. MURLI MANOHAR JOSHI): Sir, kindly see Article 102 of the Constitution. It says:
"(1) A person shall be disqualified for being chosen as, and for being, a Member of either House of Parliament--
(a) if he holds any office of profit under the Government of India or the Government of any State, other than an office declared by Parliament by law not to disqualify its holder;"
Article 101 does not apply here. This is Article 102 which is applicable... (Interruptions) No, I am not yielding. So, the office of the Chief Minister of a State is an office of profit... (Interruptions) From the point of view of Parliament, it is an office of profit... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, I am sorry, the Minister for Human Resource Development has not the slightest knowledge of the constitutional provisions. Sir, kindly see the explanation to the point he just now referred to, even if at all it is relevant. Explanation to Article 102 says:
"For the purposes of this clause..." (Interruptions)
Dr. Joshi read Article 102 (1) (a). The very explanation to the very same Article says:
"For the purposes of this clause a person shall not be deemed to hold an office of profit under the Government of India or the Government of any State by reason only that he is a Minister either for the Union or for such State."
... (Interruptions) Sir, under Article 103(1) "If any question..." (Interruptions) Sir, they are a bunch of ignorant people. The hon. Minister does not know the Constitution of India! They do not know anything.
KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE (CALCUTTA SOUTH): He does not know anything... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : As per Article 103, on this issue even this House cannot decide. Article 103 says:
"(1) If any question arises as to whether a Member of either House of Parliament has become subject to any of the disqualifications mentioned in clause (1) of article 102, the question shall be referred for the decision of the President and his decision shall be final."
Sir, you cannot disqualify. You are not yet the President of India... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please.
SHRI BALRAM JAKHAR (BIKANER): Sir, I have had presided over this House for ten years. There are conventions and I have my experience that Members had voted here. So, there is no question of his disqualification. We should not refer to these things any longer. Until and unless he is elected there, he can vote here and he has to resign 14 days after his election there, otherwise there is no question at all... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri P.C. Thomas, please take your seat. I have called Shri Advani to speak.
... (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI L.K. ADVANI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, the legal luminaries are here. I have been discussing the law in the Constitution. But in so far as the proceedings of Parliament are concerned, what is most important is that when similar situations have arisen in the past ... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ºÉֹɨÉÉ º´É®úÉVÉ (nùÊIÉhÉ Ênù±±ÉÒ): ¨ÉèÆ <ºiÉÒ¡òÉ nùäEò®ú ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú +É<Ç ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : You have no work to do. ... (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to make the position clear. I went as the Chief Minister while remaining as a Member of Parliament. I resigned from the Assembly and then came to the Parliament. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Mohammad Ali Ashraf Fatmi, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI SUSHMA SWARAJ : Sir, I never came as the Chief Minister to Parliament. I never voted as the Chief Minister in the Parliament. I resigned from the Assembly and then came here. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down. What is this? Now, Shri L.K. Advani.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Mr. Speaker, Sir, at this point of time we are not arguing before a Court of law; we are arguing before the Speaker. In the case of Parliament, what is most relevant is what had happened in the past whenever such situations had arisen. What had been the Chair's ruling in this regard whenever a similar situation had arisen?
I have before me a situation which arose in 1972 when Shri Siddarth Shankar Ray who had assumed the office of the Chief Minister of West Bengal expressed through the Minister of State for Home Affairs his desire to speak in the Lok Sabha on the Demands for Grants of the Home Ministry. ... (Interruptions)
KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : That is true. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: This is the Chair's ruling. He was informed that a Member who had assumed the Office of a Minister in a State can not participate in the proceedings of the House. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Muthiah, I have not called you to speak. Please take your seat. What is this?
... (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Sir, in another case, Shri Vasantrao Patil, Member who had been appointed as the Chief Minister of Maharashtra came briefly in the House; he just entered into the House. Immediately, Prof. Madhu Dandavate objected even to his presence in the House and he left the House immediately.
These are the two cases I have cited. In one case, the Chief Minister immediately left the House when objection was taken to his presence. In the second case, the Chief Minister of West Bengal just wanted to speak in the House and the Chair ruled that he cannot speak in the House; he cannot take part in the proceedings of the House. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : No ruling can override the Constitution. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Sir, in this case the Chief Minister of Orissa has come to take part in the voting of the House, which can be crucial, which can be decisive and which can change the history of the country. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : That shows the nervousness of the Home Minister. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Sir, I would appeal to you that keeping regard of the earlier rulings given by the Chair, you should order Shri Giridhar Gamang to go back to Orissa. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : You should have welcomed him. This is your morality. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Now I call upon Shri Jaipal Reddy to speak.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : We are told about morality by them. ... (Interruptions)
KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Yes. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MAHABUBNAGAR): Sir, I would like to submit to Shri Advani through you that the so-called convention which he referred to cannot be cited in the face of the letter of the law, in the face of the expressed provisions of the Constitution of India. Now, let me read the Constitution. ... (Interruptions) Article 101 deals with the vacation of seats. ... (Interruptions)
KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : What about the proxy vote? These are the proxy votes.
MR. SPEAKER: I have allowed him please.
KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Please allow me also, Sir.
MR. SPEAKER: I allowed Shri Jaipal Reddy.
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MAHABUBNAGAR): I would like to mention a few points relating to the Constitutional position very briefly. Article 101 deals with the vacation of seats. Article 102 of the Constitution of India deals with the disqualification of the Members. Even if somebody had incurred disqualification, that disqualification does not come into operation automatically except under Article 103. Article 103 has not been invoked. Nobody in this House is competent to disqualify anybody. Shrimati Sushma Swaraj was Chief Minister. She became Member of the other House. No doubt, she resigned her seat. She came back and I support that contention. I am not asking that she should be disqualified but after having taken advantage of this, it cannot lie in the mouth of the BJP leaders, least of all Shri Advani, to take this position.
¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ºÉֹɨÉÉ º´É®úÉVÉ : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, VɪÉ{ÉÉ±É VÉÒ xÉä ¨Éä®úÉ xÉÉ¨É Ê±ÉªÉÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ : {ɽþ±Éä ¨ÉÖZÉä ¨ÉÉèEòÉ nùÒÊVÉB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É : xɽþÒÆ, ½þ¨É ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆMÉä, ´Éä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ iÉ®ú¡ò ¤Éè`ö MɪÉä* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ºÉֹɨÉÉ º´É®úÉVÉ : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +É{É {ɽþ±Éä ¨ÉÖZÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä nùÒÊVÉB* ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ VÉÒ, +É{É VÉ®úÉ ¤ÉèÊ`öªÉä* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{ÉEòÉä ¦ÉÒ ¤ÉÖ±ÉÉBÆMÉä, +É{É ¤Éè`ö VÉÉ<ªÉä* {ɽþ±Éä ºÉֹɨÉÉ VÉÒ ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆMÉÒ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ºÉֹɨÉÉ º´É®úÉVÉ : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, VɪÉ{ÉÉ±É ®úädÒ VÉÒ xÉä ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É VÉÒ, +É{É VÉ®úÉ ¤ÉèÊ`öªÉä* ¸ÉÒ ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ : ÊxÉªÉ¨É EòÒ +´É½þä±ÉxÉÉ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER: Please sit down. I have not called you.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) * MR. SPEAKER: This will not go on record.
* Not Recorded. ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ºÉֹɨÉÉ º´É®úÉVÉ : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +É{ÉxÉä ¨ÉÖZÉä +É<Çb÷äÆ]õÒ¡òÉ<Ç ÊEòªÉÉ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¤ÉÉä±É ´Éä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* +É{É =x½þäÆ ¤Éè`öÉ<ªÉä iÉÉä ¨ÉèÆ +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þÚÆ* ¨ÉÖZÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä iÉÉä nùÉä xÉ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{É ¤Éè`ö VÉÉ<ªÉä {±ÉÒVÉ* +É{ÉEòÉä ¤ÉÉnù ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÖ±ÉÉBÆMÉä* +É{É ¤Éè`ö VÉÉ<ªÉä* ¨ÉèÆxÉä ºÉֹɨÉÉ VÉÒ EòÉä EòÉ±É ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) What is this? You are always on a point of order. ¸ÉÒ ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ : ¨Éä®úÉ {ÉÉ<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú ºÉÖÊxɪÉä* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : {ÉÉ<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú ¤ÉÉnù ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÖxÉäÆMÉä* ¸ÉÒ ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ : ºÉ¤ÉºÉä >ð{É®ú {ÉÉ<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú ½þè, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ {ÉÉ<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú ºÉÖxÉÉ VÉɪÉä* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ºÉֹɨÉÉ º´É®úÉVÉ : =xÉEòÉ {ÉÉ<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú ºÉÖxÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ VÉɪÉä* MR. SPEAKER: What is your point of order? ¸ÉÒ ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ : °ü±É 376 E±ÉÉWÉ 6 EòÉ ºÉ¤É-E±ÉÉWÉ ºÉÒ nùäJÉÉ VÉɪÉä* Rule 376, Clause-6, sub-clause `c' says:
"A Member shall not raise a point of order even when a question on any motion is being put to the House." +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, +É{ÉxÉä E´É¶SÉxÉ {ÉÖ]õ Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ ÊEò ʴɶ´ÉÉºÉ Eòä |ɺiÉÉ´É {É®ú ½þÉÆ Eò½þ nùäÆ, xÉÉ Eò½þ nùäÆ* ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä xÉÉ Eò½þ ÊnùªÉÉ* +¤É PÉÆ]õÒ ¤ÉVÉÉ<Ç VÉÉxÉÒ SÉÉʽþB* ¤ÉÒSÉ ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÉ<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú EòÒ EòÉä<Ç MÉÖÆVÉÉ<¶É xɽþÒÆ ½þè* ÊxÉªÉ¨É {É®ú ¨ÉèÆ JÉc÷É ½þÚÆ, <ºÉ ÊxÉªÉ¨É EòÉä ¨ÉÉxÉÉ VÉɪÉä +Éè®ú nùäJÉÉ VÉɪÉä ÊEò iÉÒxÉ ´ÉÉä]õ Eòä ¤ÉÒSÉ ¨ÉäÆ EòÉä<Ç {ÉÉ<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú xɽþÒÆ ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÉ* ºÉÒ {ÉÉ]õÇ ¨ÉäÆ Ê±ÉJÉÉ ½þè:
"A Member shall not raise a point of order when a question on any motion is being put to the House." nùäJÉ ±ÉÒÊVÉB VÉÉä ºÉÉ¡ò ʱÉJÉÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè, ʱÉJÉiÉxÉ Eòä +ÉMÉä ´ÉEiÉ¨É xɽþÒÆ ½þÉäMÉÉ* ʱÉJÉÉ ½þÖ+É EòÉxÉÚxÉ {ÉɱÉxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ VÉÉB, +É{ÉxÉä |ɶxÉ {ÉÖEòÉ®ú ÊnùªÉÉ ½þè <ºÉ {É®ú ´ÉÉä]õ Eò®úɪÉÉ VÉÉB, <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ EòÉä<Ç {ÉÉ<Æ]õ +É¡ò +Éb÷Ç®ú EòÉ |ɶxÉ ¤ÉÒSÉ ¨ÉäÆ xɽþÒÆ +ÉiÉÉ* +É{É <ºÉ {É®ú ÊxɪɨÉxÉ nùÒÊVÉB +Éè®ú ´ÉÉä]õ Eò®úɪÉÉ VÉÉB* ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ºÉֹɨÉÉ º´É®úÉVÉ : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ MÞɽþ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ xÉä +¦ÉÒ nùÉä =nùɽþ®úhÉ nùäiÉä ½þÖB ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ®úJÉÒ ÊEò BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú ¸ÉÒ ÊºÉrÉlÉÇ ¶ÉÆEò®ú ®úÉªÉ EòÉä ¨ÉÖJªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ ®ú½þiÉä ½þÖB <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä EòÒ <VÉÉVÉiÉ xɽþÒÆ nùÒ MÉ<Ç ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ºÉÖÊxÉB iÉÉä ºÉ½þÒ, +É{É ºÉ´ÉÉ±É =`öÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ iÉÉä VÉ´ÉÉ¤É ¦ÉÒ ºÉÖÊxÉB* =x½þÉäÆxÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò nùںɮúÒ ¤ÉÉ®ú BEò ¨ÉÖJªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ Eòä ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ |É´Éä¶É {É®ú ½þÒ +É{ÉÊiiÉ EòÒ MÉ<Ç* ¸ÉÒ VɪÉ{ÉÉ±É ®úädÒ xÉä ¨Éä®úÉ xÉÉ¨É ±ÉäEò®ú Eò½þÉ ÊEò ºÉֹɨÉÉ VÉÒ EòèºÉä ¨ÉÖJªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ ¤ÉxÉÒÆ +Éè®ú EòèºÉä ºÉnùxÉ Eòä ºÉɨÉxÉä +É<ÇÆ* ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòä ºÉɨÉxÉä ÊE±ÉªÉ®ú Ê®úEòÉb÷Ç ®úJÉxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉÒ ½þÚÆ* ¨ÉèÆxÉä =ºÉÒ ºlÉÉÊ{ÉiÉ {É®ú¨{É®úÉ EòÉ ÊxÉ´ÉÉǽþ ÊEòªÉÉ, ¨ÉèÆ {ÉÖxÉ& Ê®ú{ÉÒ]õ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉÒ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ¨ÉèÆxÉä ºlÉÉÊ{ÉiÉ {É®ú¨{É®úÉ EòÉ ÊxÉ´ÉÉǽþ ÊEòªÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ ºÉƺÉnù EòÒ ºÉnùºªÉ ®ú½þiÉä ½þÖB Ênù±±ÉÒ EòÒ ¨ÉÖJªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ ¤ÉxÉÒ* +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, 28 xɴɨ¤É®ú EòÉä ºÉƺÉnù EòÉ ºÉjÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü ½þÖ+É* SÉÉ®ú iÉÉ®úÒJÉ iÉEò SÉÚÆÊEò ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÖJªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ lÉÒ, BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú ¦ÉÒ ¨ÉèÆxÉä ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ |É´Éä¶É iÉEò xɽþÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ, ½þÉ=ºÉ EòÒ |ÉÉäʺÉÊb÷ÆMÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÉMÉ ±ÉäxÉä EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ iÉÉä nùÚ®ú EòÒ ½þè* BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú ¦ÉÒ ¨ÉèÆxÉä ºÉƺÉnù ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉ ºÉ¦ÉÉMÞɽþ ¨ÉäÆ |É´Éä¶É xɽþÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ* {ÉÉÆSÉ iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä ¨ÉèÆxÉä +ºÉ䨤ɱÉÒ ºÉä <ºiÉÒ¡òÉ ÊnùªÉÉ* ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ÊE±ÉªÉ®ú ½þè ÊEò nùÉäxÉÉäÆ ºÉÒ]õÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉä BEò ºÉÒ]õ ®úJÉ ºÉEòiÉÒ lÉÒ* {ÉÉÆSÉ ÊnùºÉ¨¤É®ú EòÉä ¨ÉèÆxÉä +ºÉ䨤ɱÉÒ ºÉä <ºiÉÒ¡òÉ ÊnùªÉÉ +Éè®ú ½þÉ=ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ |É´Éä¶É ÊEòªÉÉ +Éè®ú ½þÉ=ºÉ EòÒ |ÉÉäʺÉÊb÷ÆMÉ ¨ÉäÆ Ê½þººÉÉ ±ÉäxÉÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü ÊEòªÉÉ* ¨ÉÖJªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ ®ú½þiÉä ½þÖB ¨ÉèÆxÉä BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú ¦ÉÒ ºÉnùxÉ EòÒ ¤Éè`öEò ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÉMÉ xɽþÒÆ Ê±ÉªÉÉ* ªÉ½þÉÆ iÉEò ÊEò ºÉ¦ÉÉMÞɽþ ¨ÉäÆ |É´Éä¶É xɽþÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ* <ºÉʱÉB ºÉֹɨÉÉ ºÉ ´É®úÉVÉ xÉä =ºÉÒ {É®ú¨{É®úÉ EòÉ ÊxÉ´ÉÉǽþ ÊEòªÉÉ ÊVɺÉEòÉ =r®úhÉ ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä ÊnùªÉÉ ½þè* VɪÉ{ÉÉ±É ®úädÒ VÉÒ EòÉ ªÉÉ =vÉ®ú Eòä ºÉnùºªÉÉäÆ EòÉ ªÉ½þ Eò½þxÉÉ ÊEò ºÉֹɨÉÉ VÉÒ ºÉƺÉnù ºÉnùºªÉ ®ú½þiÉä ½þÖB ¨ÉÖJªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ EòèºÉä ¤ÉxÉ MÉ<Ç lÉÒÆ, ºÉ®úɺɮú MɱÉiÉ ½þè, ºÉ®úɺɮú ¤Éä¤ÉÖÊxɪÉÉnù ½þè* ¨ÉèÆxÉä =ºÉÒ {É®ú¨{É®úÉ EòÉ ÊxÉ´ÉÉǽþ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè ÊVɺÉEòÉ =r®úhÉ ªÉ½þÉÆ MÞɽþ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä ÊnùªÉÉ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ: SÉäªÉ®ú EòÉä ¦ÉÒ ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉÉ ½þè, SÉäªÉ®ú Eòä {ÉÉºÉ ¦ÉÒ ÊEòiÉÉ¤É ½þè* PROF. P.J. KURIEN (MAVELIKARA): Sir, I am explaining something. That will explain everything to everybody.
MR. SPEAKER: What is your submission?
PROF. P.J. KURIEN : What I am going to say will certainly help you in taking a decision because it is not that only one Member of Parliament from our side was selected as Chief Minister. From the Congress' side two MPs were elected as Chief Ministers, one of Rajasthan and the second of Orissa.
In the case of Rajasthan, he was elected to the Assembly. So, he resigned. In the case of Orissa, election was not held. He is not a Member of the Assembly. ...(Interruptions).
MR. SPEAKER: Prof. Kurien, you are talking about Shri Giridhar Gamang, not about the Houses they got elected.
... (Interruptions)
PROF. P.J. KURIEN : When I was issuing the whip, I considered this matter with legal experts also. Then, I was advised that Shrimati Sushma Swaraj was a Member of this House and elected as Chief Minister. By virtue of becoming a Chief Minister, if she loses the Membership, then he will also lose. If she has lost the Membership to come back here, she should be reelected by the people. Now, if he loses and if he is not a Member, he has already ceased to be a Member and he cannot come here without being elected. This is my point.
SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL (LATUR): I am referring to three articles of the Constitution of India. The first article to which I am making a reference is Article 100. Article 100 reads like this:
"Save as otherwise provided in this Constitution, all questions at any sitting of either House or joint sitting of the Houses shall be determined by a majority of votes of the members present and voting, other than the Speaker or person acting as Chairman or Speaker."
The last portion is not relevant here.
Now, this is the article which is very relevant to the voting in the House. Every question has to be decided on the basis of the vote given by the Member. Now, whether a present Member, Shri Giridhar Gamang, is a Member of this House or not can be decided by reading Article 102 and Article 103.
Now, Article 102 provides that if any question arises as to the qualification, as to the Membership of a Member of this House, then the matter is referred to the President and the President refers that matter to the Election Commissioner. The Election Commissioner takes the voting and he forwards his finding to the President and on the basis of the finding forwarded by the Election Commissioner, the President takes the decision and says that the Member is qualified or says that the Member is disqualified. That is one thing.
Secondly, I come to the disqualification under the Anti-Defection Law. Now, that is decided by the hon. Speaker himself. The case is presented to the hon. Speaker and the hon. Speaker decides whether a Member is qualified or disqualified. If the hon. Speaker says that the Member is qualified, then he sits and vote and if he says that he is disqualified, he goes.
There is a third method, that is, the resignation of a Member. If a Member gives a resignation and goes out of the House, he is not allowed to vote. These are the three contingencies in which the voting has to take place.
Now, the decision as to the qualification or disqualification is provided in Article 103. Article 103 reads like this:
"If any question arises as to whether a member of either House of Parliament has become subject to any of the disqualifications mentioned in clause (1) of article 102, the question shall be referred for the decision of the President and his decision shall be final."
Now, here is a Member who was elected to this House and as is pointed by Shri P. Shiv Shanker, he came to this House, took the oath, participated in the House. So, he is still a Member of this House. He has not resigned. Your goodself has not said that he is disqualified. The President has not said that he is disqualified. He has a right. He is not a Member of the Legislative Assembly in Orissa. He cannot vote there. He has a right to vote here as a Member of this House.
13.00 hrs. In view of this fact, it will be wrong to disallow the Member to vote in this House because he is not disqualified. He is qualified and is sitting in this House.
¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, VªÉÉnùÉ xɽþÒÆ ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆMÉä* BEò - ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ, ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ EòÉ {ÉÉ<Æ]õ ʤɱÉEòÖ±É ºÉ½þÒ ½þè* nùÉä - SÉÖxÉÉ´É |ÉÊFòªÉÉ ¶ÉÖ¯û ½þÉäiÉä ½þÒ ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ MÞɽþ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ SÉÖxÉÉ´É |ÉÊFòªÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÉvÉEò ¤ÉxÉ MÉB* ªÉ½þ EòÉä<Ç ÊxÉªÉ¨É +Éè®ú EòÉxÉÚxÉ EòÉ ºÉ´ÉÉ±É xɽþÒÆ ½þè* ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ½þiÉÉ¶É ½þè, <ºÉʱÉB, +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, +É{É SÉÖxÉÉ´É |ÉÊFòªÉÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü Eò®úÉ<B* THE MINISTER OF URBAN AFFAIRS AND EMPLOYMENT (SHRI RAM JETHMALANI): Sir, kindly have a look at article 88 of the Constitution...(Interruptions)
SOME HON. MEMBERS: No, no...(Interruptions)
SHRI RAM JETHMALANI: Do you not want to hear a sensible argument?... (Interruptions) Sir, article 88 of the Constitution says that every Minister shall have the right to speak in, and otherwise to take part in the proceedings of either House, except that he shall not be entitled to vote ...(Interruptions) I have every right to participate in the debate. The only restriction is that I cannot vote. This is an article of the Constitution. If they are so ignorant, they should read article 88 of the Constitution... (Interruptions)
SHRI LALU PRASAD (MADHEPURA): Sir, I am on a point of order...(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Lalu Prasad Ji, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SHARAD PAWAR : Mr. Speaker, Sir, actually the process of voting has been started. You have moved the motion, you have asked for the voting, some Members said `Aye', some Members said `No', and Shri Girdhar Gamang also has participated in the voting. In this background, I do not think any person who is not a Member of this House has got any right to speak in the House...(Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Mr. Speaker Sir, I have great respect for the erudition and understanding of Shri Shivraj Patil, the former Speaker of this House. Sir, I listened carefully to Shri Shivraj Patil on this issue. The issue that this House is discussing today is not whether Shri Gamang is a Member of this House or not, whether he is disqualified or not, the issue is whether a Member who has become the Chief Minister is entitled to participate in the proceedings of this House or not. ....(Interruptions)
... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ : +É{É <ºÉ {É®ú °üʱÉÆMÉ nùÒÊVÉB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +É{ÉEòÉ ÊxɪɨÉxÉ SÉÉʽþB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members please take your seats.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri S. Jaipal Reddy, please take your seat.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: I am appealing to you to please take your seats.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Sir, I quote from page 816 of `Practice and Procedure of Parliament' written by Kaul and Shakdher. I would invite the Leader of Opposition to pick up this book of Kaul and Shakdher and refer to page 816. It says:
"Where a member ... is appointed Minister in a State .... Such a member, if he comes to the House, is not entitled to participate in the proceedings of the House or to vote."
The issue is not whether Shri Gamang is qualified or disqualified. The issue is whether he is entitled to take part in the proceedings of the House or not. On that, all the rulings till now, including this authentic document which we always refer to in the House, are that he cannot participate or vote. ....(Interruptions) Also, Shri Gamang was allotted division number 308 earlier. That has been cancelled by the Secretariat. ....(Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : How can the Secretariat cancel it? ....(Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ±ÉɱÉÚ |ɺÉÉnù : ½þÉä¨É ʨÉÊxɺ]õ®ú ºÉɽþ¤É xÉä SÉäªÉ®ú Eòä °üʱÉÆMÉ EòÉ ½þ´ÉɱÉÉ ÊnùªÉÉ* ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ +Éè®ú BE]õ {É®ú SÉäªÉ®ú EòÒ °üʱÉÆMÉ xɽþÒÆ SÉ±É ºÉEòiÉÒ, +É{É Ê¨É]õÉ ¦ÉÒ xɽþÒÆ ºÉEòiÉä* ¨ÉÉxÉ ±ÉÒÊVÉB ¤ÉÉäxÉÉ¡òÉ<b÷ ¨É䨤ɮú +Éì¡ò nù ±ÉÉäEòºÉ¦ÉÉ, +MÉ®ú EòÉä<Ç ¨É䨤ɮú {ÉÉʱÉǪÉɨÉäÆ]õ ¨ÉäÆ SÉÖxÉ Eò®ú +ÉiÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä ´É½þ 14 ÊnùxÉ Eòä +Ænù®ú BEò VÉMɽþ ºÉä <ºiÉÒ¡òÉ Eò®úäMÉÉ* ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ EòÉ ÊxÉªÉ¨É B´ÉÆ EòɪÉnùÉ º{ɹ]õ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ɺÉÉnù ʺÉƽþ VÉÒ xÉä Eò½þÉ ½þè ÊEò ªÉä ´ÉÉä]õ b÷É±É SÉÖEòä ½þèÆ* +¤É <xÉEòÉä VªÉÉnùÉ b÷ɱªÉÚ]õ ªÉä Eò®úxÉÉ SÉɽþiÉä ½þèÆ* +É{É b÷ɱªÉÚ¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉiÉ VÉÉ<ªÉä, ¨ÉäxÉ-º]ÅÒ¨É ¨ÉäÆ +É<ªÉä +Éè®ú ´ÉÉäÊ]õÆMÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü Eò®úÉ<ªÉä* SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER : Sir, something has been wrongly read by our friend. He has read it out of context. If you kindly look up, it says :
"Where a Member of either House of Parliament is appointed a Minister in a State but does not resign his seat in Parliament, he incurs no disqualification."
What more do you want? This is what it is. Then, the Amendment to Article 103 of the Constitution has come in 1977, where it says :
"If any question arises as to where a Member of either House of Parliament has become subject to any of the disqualifications mentioned in clause (1) of Article 102, the question shall be referred for the decision of the President."
This has come into effect in 1977, and the explanation part which was read by my friend, Shri Somnath Chatterjee, has come into force in 1985. So, what he has read is the 1971 case about Shri Siddarth Shankar Ray. It has no relevance because of the later Amendment.
SHRI N. JANARDHANA REDDY (BAPATLA): Sir, I got elected to the Rajya Sabha in April 1972. In 1978, though I was a Member of the Rajya Sabha --- let me give me the example, ... (Interruptions)
SHRI LALU PRASAD : Two Members are absent and, therefore, he is prolonging.
SHRI N. JANARDHANA REDDY : In 1978, I had taken oath as a Minister. ... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É : ªÉä ±É¨¤ÉÉ <ºÉʱÉB JÉÒÆSÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ÊEò =xÉEòä ¨É訤ɮú xɽþÒÆ +ɪÉä ½þèÆ* SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (BARAMATI): Sir, please give the ruling.
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats. Please allow the Chair to speak. Shri Lalu Prasad, please sit down. What is this?
... (Interruptions)
SHRI LALU PRASAD : Since two Members are not present, they are disturbing the voting procedure. ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉƽþ ªÉÉnù´É : <xÉEòä ¨É訤ɮú xɽþÒÆ +ɪÉä ½þèÆ <ºÉʱÉB ªÉä <ºÉEòÉä ±É¨¤ÉÉ JÉÒÆSÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* MR. SPEAKER: Shri Lalu Prasad, please take your seat. What is this?
... (Interruptions)
13.15 hrs.