Lok Sabha Debates
Discussion On Points Arising Out Of The Answers Given By The Minister Of State In ... on 14 May, 2002
17.52 hrs. Title: Discussion on points arising out of the answers given by the Minister of State in the Ministry of Home Affairs on 19.03.2002 to Starred Question No. 223 regarding "Foreign Funding to Madarsas".
MR. CHAIRMAN : Now, the House will take up item No. 23 -Half-An-Hour Discussion.
Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunshi.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (RAIGANJ): Mr. Chairman, Sir, the discussion which is now listed is arising out of a Starred Question answered in this House. I am thankful to you for having allowed this discussion which is extremely important at this hour of the nation to dispel all kinds of misgivings which are widely being spreaded not only among the Muslims, but all kinds of institutions be it Hindus or Buddhists or Muslims, where besides the normal education, teaching on religion based on humanity are conducted.
Sir, the type of education in the country, i.e., Central Board of Secondary Education, State level Secondary Education, Missionary institutions and their English medium schools, Ramakrishna Mission and their schools and colleges, Gurukul Schools, Madarasa Education under Madarasa Board are the regular features of our country’s education system at the grass-root.
Students’ population in the age group of 6-10 and 10-16 hardly had required number of institutions in the country. In spite of completion of the Ninth Plan, at Junior School and High School, Secondary School are often compensated by privately organised initiative of the teachers, social workers, volunteers, NGOs to conduct unorganised schools and institutions with a hope for recognition at an appropriate date by the respective State Government. There are institutions also which are run by the trustees.
Insofar as Madarasa education is concerned, there are two types. One is recognised Madarasa, as per the curriculum of the State level secondary education syllabus and approved by the Madarasa Board and the other is unorganised Madarassa and these are operated in three levels –Primary Junior High and Senior High Madarasa.
In so far as private level Madarsas are concerned, these are known as Khariji Madarsas, which are funded by several collections having Islamic faith, based on their own understanding, collected through Zakat, Fitra, Qurbani and other methods. In the border districts of Bengal, Rajasthan and Gujarat, there are umpteen number of Madarsas to accommodate the students. It is interesting to note that Madarsas in Bengal, especially those which are recognised, are having students from both the communities, together with the teaching staff from both the communities who are teaching on the basis of the approved syllabus of the State Secondary Board. I personally visited a Madarsa called Zakua Madarsa, where I found that 45 per cent of the students and teachers are Hindus and the balance are Muslims. Similar is the syllabus which I discovered in a Madarsa called Motiganj Madarsa in Samsi of my constituency where I found that though the Madarsa is not recognised, the syllabus is the approved syllabus of the Board of Secondary Education of the Government of West Bengal.
When we talk of modernising education and imparting modern education selectively, it is no good saying that only Madarsas are not modernised. There are examples of Government-sponsored primary schools where even the rooftops of the schools do not exist and the students can hardly find a place to sit and study. Even teachers’ attendance is not regular in those areas.
Study of religion is not confined only in Madarsas. From the days of our rishis and munis in the ancient times, the best course of education started with understanding Vedas, understandingUpanishads, understanding Puranas, and understanding all kinds of religious traditions. Gurudeb Tagore, in many of his compositions, has stated how the primary education in the earlier days used to be based on the teachings of Upanishads. In our country today, there are schools and colleges, right up to the level of university, where religious education, right from the Vedic school of thought to Puranas,Upanishads and also the thought of Ramayana and Mahabharata are studied. In post-graduate classes of the Modern Languages Department of the Calcutta University, where Bengali literature is studied by both Hindus and Muslims, Lord Krishna’s message and Vaishnava religion is a compulsory subject which one has to study in depth. Therefore, the study of religion in educational curriculum is neither a crime nor it should be opposed at all. What I am trying to argue is that in our country, the Constitution gives the right. When we enter in a school of Ramakrishna Mission, we have to say उत्तिष्ठत जाग्रत प्राप्य वरान् निबोधित: . When we enter into a Christian school, we have to say the message of Lord Christ. When we enter into a Hindu school called Gurukul, there, we are first taught what is the Gayatri mantra - "ऊं भूर्भुव: स्व: तत् सवितुर्वरेण्यं भर्गो देवस्य धीमहि धियो योन: प्रचोदयात््".When we go to a Madarsa – even in the primary standard ofMadarsa – just as the Hindus feel that some mantras are to be cited only in Sanskrit, like Gayatri mantra, in the same way, the Madarsasalso try to educate their children in the primary standard the actual message of Holy Qoran in Arabic and Persian language which preserves the basic tenets of the Islamic faith in the HolyQoran. . This is a phenomenal thing and this is an interesting thing which combines our faith and the unity of the nation. Therefore, to propagate that taking foreign aid, Madarsas are teaching religion and that religion is inciting violence, is not at all a factual thing.
When this debate started in our State where the largest number of Madarsas exist in the country next to any other State, I toured 120 Madarsas and out of those 120 Madarsas, I found that more than 70 are not recognised and there, the students share in one room in the night, facing the mosquitoes, and eat on the support of the local Muslims which they contribute through Qurbani, Fitra and Zakat. The teachers, the Maulvis used to get Rs.75 to Rs.100 - at the most Rs.200 - as remuneration to take them. It is a fact that the country is committed to fight terrorism, the country is determined to finish the cross-border terrorism. We have seen what has happened today in Jammu as per the report of the Home Minister. The entire Parliament is united with the Government to combat the terrorism, wherever it is, come what may.
18.00 hrs. But Sir, in the name of fighting terrorism, we should not antagonise the whole system of education in this country in a manner that all turn out to be terrorists. If there is a selective case of any school or college where a particular teacher – like Professor Geelani has been arrested in connection with attack on Parliament – where a particular professor or a particular student is involved in terrorist activities, haul him up, detain him, but do not accuse and abuse the system of education.
Sir, when the naxalite movement started, a large number of naxalite leaders came out from a college of West Bengal called the Presidency College and the important leaders came out from the Presidency College. But it does not mean that the Presidency College and system of education had produced naxalites. Sir, at one point of time, a few of the followers of the LTTE also came from some universities either in Sri Lanka or in India. It does not mean that universities are making criminals. If a particular teacher like Professor Geelani of Delhi, or if a particular student is taking shelter either in a mosque or in a temple or in somebody else’s house or in a Madarasa, he should be detained. We have no two opinions about it. But in that case, it is wrong to accuse that Madarasas in general are indulging in anti-national activities by using foreign funding.
Sir, I may submit, through you, to the hon. Minister that the foreign funding is received under a law called Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act and that law is governed and monitored by the Home Ministry. That law is giving support not only to the Muslim institutions or Madarasas, but also to the Christian missionaries’ schools, to Hindu religious trusts’ schools and to NGOs’ schools throughout the country. I can submit a list of how many non-Muslim organisations are also receiving foreign contribution under Foreign Contribution (Regulation) Act. If the Government finds that the foreign contribution is being mis-utilised for ulterior purpose against the nation, be it a Hindu or a Muslim, the Government should show their strong hands and we shall all stand by them, but to generalise and accuse a system of education, which is being perceived by the Madarasas and Madarasa Boards, it would be wrong in this hour of conflict.
Therefore, my questions are very limited. My first question is whether the Minister is in possession of any list of Madarasas, especially of West Bengal, which are involved in anti-national activities as per the report of West Bengal Government, and if so, whether those are brought to the notice and remedial steps have been taken. Second, I want to know whether the Government will advise the concerned State Governments to recognise the unrecognised Madarasas immediately within a time-frame and to see that along with their religious education, the education that is required to cope with the competition of the established secondary schools is introduced in line with State’s secondary syllabus and primary syllabus at primary and secondary levels. Third, I would like to know whether Madarasa Boards of respective States would be given enough support financially to construct and reconstruct, renovate or rehabilitate the existing Madarasas for a congenial atmosphere and modern equipment to impart education throughout the country.
Sir, I had the privilege to go through a booklet published by Shri Mufti Ahmed Dehlavi of Gujarat. He is the General Secretary of Majlis-e-Tahbib Madarasas of Gujarat. Sir, though I do not agree with many of the contents as he has described, but a few things are very genuine and I feel that they are a message to me also. They say that their way of teaching, using foreign funding and other funding involves (a) the message of Holy Qoran to the young kids to understand what is the Islamic faith; (b) the social habits and behaviours pertaining to personal integrity, moral values of the life; and (c) social reforms and modern values of human life, academic profession or instruction.
Finally, he mentioned that no less than Shaukat Ali and Mohammad Ali the great freedom fighters of this country, who were groomed through the Madarasa system of education, had also contributed immensely for the understanding of our national movement.
Today, unfortunately – I am not talking of Gujarat and Rajasthan – in our State, a few months back, a wide spread message had gone that Madarasas are wrong and Madarasas are doing anti-national activites. I tell you, Sir, that I had to travel 120 Madarasas and in one selective Madarasa, I spent six hours to go in details to find out what exactly is their teaching. Sir, I do not know Arabic and Persian languages. I took an expert with me, without disclosing his identity. When the prayer meeting was over, I asked him to translate to me what they taught.
Finally, he mentioned that no less than Shaukat Ali and Mohammad Ali the great freedom fighters of this country, who were groomed through the Madarasa system of education, had also contributed immensely for the understanding of our national movement.
Today, unfortunately – I am not talking of Gujarat and Rajasthan – in our State, a few months back, a wide spread message had gone that Madarasas are wrong and Madarasas are doing anti-national activites. I tell you, Sir, that I had to travel 120 Madarasas and in one selective Madarasa, I spent six hours to go in details to find out what exactly is their teaching. Sir, I do not know Arabic and Persian languages. I took an expert with me, without disclosing his identity. When the prayer meeting was over, I asked him to translate to me what they taught.
The message that I gathered there was, "Be brave, be honest, be a patriot, support people and the humanity in the hour of crisis". When I heard this translation, I was inspired. I talked to the children afterwards and I enquired from them as to what the Maulana had taught. They said that this was what he said. They spoke to me in Bengali. If I had not taken the interpreter, I would have been under the wrong impression that they are possibly inciting violence and doing something. Therefore, the Government’s duty is to dispel the misunderstanding.
We want the children to be acquainted with the teachings of all religions in this country, be it in the Ramakrishna Mission, be it in a Christian Public School or be it in a Madarsa. If there is a wrong-doer, the law should take its own course. Please do not abuse, accuse or generalise the whole thing. If foreign funding in any institution is being misused, please haul them up; I do not mind it. If you want to regulate these institutions by taking steps that are more stringent, like auditing, checking the utilisation aspect and all that, then we will all support you. However, this bad impression should be cleared that madarsas are contributing to the anti-national activities and are supporting terrorism.
I do not know whether the West Bengal Government had sent any communication to the Home Minister. If they have conveyed any special message pertaining to the functioning of any particular madarsa in our State, that too in the districts of Murshidabad, Maldah, and Dinajpur, which I represent, please inform us. We will cooperate with you and the State Government to correct them. Without that, if you simply accuse and air the whole issue in the country, it will be a disaster. All those young children would feel isolated in this country. They will think that nobody is there to talk about them. It will give a wrong message to those who are dependent on the Government’s final view and understanding.
Sir, I represent a constituency, which has the constituency of Shri Shahnawaz Hussain as its border. You cannot imagine the situation and my tears cannot explain it to you. I feel most guilty that we could not do anything to them in 50 years. I admit my guilt. The young Muslim children with one lungi and one shirt, after six hours of training, wait with a thali to get a little rice in the night, which the Maulanashares with them. In the morning, they eat channa and drink water, which is their breakfast. I found that for 15 minutes, they recite the Holy Koran; for twenty minutes, they teach about their religion, and for three hours, they teach about mathematics, geography and history. They learn all these things, after eating channa as breakfast, and we are accusing them as terrorists, which is absolutely wrong. Therefore, it is the duty of the Government to dispel the whole misgivings and to give a message thatmadarsa education per se is not against the nation. If somebody is misusing the foreign funding, the Government should take action.
With these words and these questions, I conclude my speech.
SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Sir, in the answer that was given to Question number 223 by the Minister of Home Affairs, it was felt that the Foreign Contributions Act requires a change. The Government is just going to bring in a change because they found that all the provisions of this Foreign Contributions Act are not very effective.
Sir, I fully agree with hon. Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi who, from his own experience, made a narration of what sort of syllabus themadarsa students undergo. I fully agree with him. But I do not think that this is the case everywhere in India. It might be the case or the correct thing, wherever he had gone, but we cannot say that the same thing persists everywhere in India. I will give you the example of this. India Today, just about two issues back, had brought out an article about the border districts of Rajasthan. They have mentioned that previously it was very difficult to distinguish a Hindu from a Muslim in those border districts of Rajasthan because both of them had the similar type of dress and turbans.
But now-a-days gradually the Muslims in those areas are trying to distinguish themselves from the Hindus by putting on a different kind of a dress. Now, instead of putting on a turban they have started putting on skull caps and are wearing traditional Muslim dresses. The reason that has been cited for such a change is that quite a few number of madrasas have sprang up in those border districts. The same thing is being noticed in the bordering districts of Uttar Pradesh and Nepal. There have been quite a few articles written on this in the various newspapers and magazines.
Sir, I have just two to three questions to put to the hon. Minister. Is the Government in a position to have any control over the syllabus of the madrasas? Or, would the madrasas only select their syllabus? I agree that Government is not controlling the madrasassince the madrasas are private institutions. But there are many other private institutions also in India. So, the Government could at least control the educational aspect of the madrasas and decide about the syllabus to be taught in those madrasas. Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi, the hon. Minister for Human Resources Development, once said that science should be taught in the madrasas and that he was prepared to give funds for that. Now, would the Government have any control over the syllabus that is being taught in the madrasas?
Sir, the second point is about the funds. It is a different matter whether the funds are being utilised or are being misutilised but the moot question is, what has been the source of funding for the madrasas? It is known that they are being funded by foreign countries but for what purpose are these madrasas being funded? Would the Government find this out?
Sir, the final question is, when would the Government amend the Foreign Contribution Act? Is the Government proposing any amendment to this Act? If so, when are they going to bring in those amendments to the Act?
श्री मोहन रावले (मुम्बई दक्षिण मध्य) :एक क्वश्चन मुझे भी पूछना है।
सभापति महोदय : टाइम नहीं है और नियम भी इजाजत नहीं देता।
SHRI E. AHAMED (MANJERI): Sir, I have also given notice to speak on this. I have given in writing.
सभापति महोदय: नियम के अनुसार चार नाम ही स्वीकृत हुए हैं।
श्री प्रियरंजन दासमुंशी: यह महत्वपूर्ण इश्यू है। सदा ही चेयर की तरफ से ऐसा होता है।
श्री मोहन रावले : आप दो-दो मिनट दे दीजिए।…( व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : ठीक है, लेकिन दो-दो मिनट से ज्यादा नहीं दूंगा।
SHRI E. AHAMED (MANJERI): Sir, this is an important public issue. You please allow me for just two minutes.
सभापति महोदय : ठीक है, कृपया आसन ग्रहण कीजिए।
SHRI E. AHAMED (MANJERI): Sir, I am really happy about the fact that such an important issue of the madrasas has been raised in this discussion.
Sir, at the outset I would like to submit that there is a lot of misconception and misunderstanding about the madrasas. The campaign that has been unleashed against the madrasas is only a part of the hate propaganda that has been going on against a particular community in the country. My hon. friend from treasury Bench was saying that the Government should control the syllabus of the madrasas. I would like to ask if the Government would take the same step in respect of the other religious institutions run by other communities. There are institutions, in this country, that are being run by Sangh Parivars, I am not accusing anybody, by section of the majority community. Would the Government take action against those who are engaging themselves in a hate campaign against a community? This campaign against Madrasas is, in fact, an exaggerated campaign. As a matter of fact, I know the functioning of the madrasas very well, the students there are taught in the Arabiclanguage. They are given instructions from the Holi Quran and they also are given lessons on moral values and patriotism. Patriotism is an integral part of Muslim faith for Muslims. That is being taught in Madrasas.
They are teaching the students how they should be patriotic to the country. Nobody knows that. They are also teaching moral values there.Now this compaign against Madrasas has been exaggerated.
My friend, hon. Minister of State for Home Shri Vidyasagar Rao came to my place Kozhikode to inaugurate the delegates meeting of the Bharatiya Yuva Janata Morcha on 9th April this year. It was reported in The Hindu of 10th April, 2002 under the headline ‘Madrasas posing threat to Kerala’s security’. I would like to say that Kerala is the only State in this country which is not posed any threat to any other part of the country. So far as the Muslims of Kerala are concerned, with all authority at my command I would say that they are the bulwarks against extremism and terrorism in the country.
In that report of HINDU of 10th April, the Minister Shri Vidyasagar Rao said that terrorist activities were taking place in Kerala. I strongly deny it. He then said, "Mushrooming of these traditional institutions in the name of propagating religion is posing danger to the internal security of the country." The hon. Minister, on 19th March this year, in a question posed by Shri K Yerrannaidu, stated in this House that no survey of this kind was conducted. However, the same Minister, while addressing the Bharatiya Yuva Janata Morcha, says "Of course, not all Madrasas can be put in this category. But a majority of them have shady dealings." I would like to know from the Minister as to why he did not take any action against that majority of Madrasas that were posing a threat. I want to make it absolutely clear that my Muslim community in this country and my party Indian Union Muslim League always stood for the security of the country. This whole thing is exaggerated to run a hate campaign against Muslims and Madrasas. Muslim, Madrasa, Masjid are anathema to a section of people in this country.
I, therefore, urge upon the Minister to clarify his stand on this now.
SHRI NARESH PUGLIA (CHANDRAPUR): Sir, BJP has only one Muslim. He is a Minister now and is sitting here. He should talk about his views on this.
श्री मोहन रावले (मुम्बई दक्षिण मध्य) :वे जवाब देने वाले नहीं हैं। मैं यहां मंत्री महोदय से पूछना चाहता हूं कि हिन्दुस्तान में कितने मदरसे हैं। मैंने बीच में पढ़ा था किInternal Security Committee by Group of Ministers under the Chairmanship of hon. Minister Shri L.K. Advani, के तहत आपने कमेटी की स्थापना की थी, उस कमेटी की क्या रिपोर्ट है और उस पर क्या इम्प्लीमेंटेशन हुआ है? हमने पढ़ा था, मैं सारे मदरसों के बारे में नहीं बोल रहा हूं, लेकिन कुछ मदरसों के बारे में ऐसा पढ़ा था कि वहां मदरसों में पढ़ाई की आड़ में आतंकवादियों की सुरक्षा की जा रही है, उनकी रक्षा की जा रही है, आतंकवादी वहां से बाहर निकलते हैं। मैं मंत्री महोदय से जानना चाहता हूं कि कितने आतंकवादियों के बारे में आपको ऐसा पता चला है और उनके ऊपर आपने क्या कार्रवाई की है? मेरे पास बुक है, उस बुक में मैंने बहुत से एडीटोरियल पढ़े हैं, उसमें मैंने सुना है कि वहां सिर्फ इस्लाम धर्म के बारे में शिक्षा दी जाती है। वहां किसी को पता नहीं है कि हमारे देश का राष्ट्रपति कौन है। उनको लादेन के बारे में पता है, लेकिन अटल बिहारी वाजपेयी के बारे में पता नहीं है। मैं सरकार से निवेदन करना चाहता हूं कि बाहर से जो फंडिंग होती है, वह फंडिंग किस-किस को होती है?जैसे पाकिस्तान में जेहादियों को मदरसों में ट्रेनिंग दी जा रही थी तो उसके लिए वहां रजिस्ट्रेशन किया गया तो क्या सरकार की तरफ से यहां भी आप रजिस्ट्रेशन करने वाले हैं? वहां इस्लाम धर्म का शिक्षण दिया जाता है, हमें किसी धर्म के शिक्षण के बारे में आपत्ति नहीं है, लेकिन उसके साथ जैसे पाकिस्तान में एजुकेशन के बारे में चल रहा है कि एडवांस्ड टैक्नोलॉजी के बारे में महिलाओं को शिक्षा दी जाती है, वैसे ही शिक्षा देने की सुविधा आप करवाने के लिए कुछ कोशिश करने वाले हैं क्या? पाकिस्तान ने उन पर पाबन्दी लगाई है। पाकिस्तान के जरिये वे सब अफगान और कश्मीरी…( व्यवधान)
श्री प्रियरंजन दासमुंशी:पाकिस्तान खुद टैरेरिस्ट्स पैदा करता है, इसलिए करता है। हिन्दुस्तान टैरेरिस्ट्स पैदा नहीं करता।…( व्यवधान)
श्री मोहन रावले : लेकिन दबाव आने के बाद उन्होंने रजिस्ट्रेशन करने के लिए मजबूर किया है। क्या वैसे ही आप भी मजबूर करने वाले हैं ? आपने जो इंटरनल सिक्योरिटी की कमेटी बनाई है, उसके बारे में भी बताएं ?
SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (SILCHAR): Mr. Chairman, Sir, my good friend Shri Priya Ranjan Dasmunsi had explained at length about theMadarsas and their activities. There is a misconception going on all over the country about the Government’s stand on Madarsas.
My good and young friend, Shri Syed Shahnawaz Hussain, must have also got his education during his childhood in Madarsas. Then how come he is in the Ministry? So, it is a misconception. I do not know whether his bio-data has been properly checked. If that be the fact and when he can be inducted in the Ministry, there is no reason why the other fellows, who are taking education in different Madarsas cannot be?
Sir, I know one instance. I will give the names for just verification. In my Constituency, there is a Madarsa known as BaskandiMadarsa.They have taken care of 92 orphaned children from Kokrajhar as there were riots. The Chief Minister requested the Madarsa people to take care of them. Now, those people are feeding those boys and also giving them computer education. I am giving them computers. I have given them computers from my MP Local Area Development Fund. So, to tell that all the Madarsasare bad is very unfortunate. It should not be en bloc said like that. It is for the good of the country, for the good of the humanity and for the good of good relations between Hindus and Muslims. So, it is high time now that the Government identifies that these are theMadarsas which are doing anti-State and anti-social activities. If they find any, they should tell us. We shall boycott them.
But to tell that all the Madarsas are bad is very unfortunate. It should not be done and it cannot be done like this.
Sir, the hon. Minister had gone to Kerala and gave some statements. As a Minister, it is his duty to create a congenial atmosphere between the Hindus and Muslims. In Assam, the Muslims -- we have seen -- are as patriotic as any other Muslims of the country. They are there for years together. In my Constituency, during election time, he went there and preached against me. There is nothing wrong in it, politically. But who were his crowds? All these Madarsas boys and children! For votes, he needs their help. For castigating them, he sits there and laughs. He should protect them and listen to them so that the problem does not come.
My hon. friend from that side has also raised a good point. Let it be clarified. Many schools are getting help. Even many of the Hindu organisations are now getting help from London. I, as a Minister, visited one of the temples there, which was opened by Shri Advani himself, and they told me that every month they send money to Indian institutions for preaching of various other things, and not religion. There is nothing wrong in it.
So, in the end, I would request the hon. Minister to give a correct and factual answer. It should not be a vague answer.
नागर विमानन मंत्री (श्री सैयद शाहनवाज़ हुसैन) : सभापति जी, मेरा नाम लिया गया है इसलिए मैं स्पष्टीकरण देना चाहता हूं। हमारी तालीम भी मदरसे में हुई है। हमारी सरकार ने कभी मदरसों के खिलाफ कोई इस तरह की बात नहीं कही है। पिछली बार भी यह मामला उठा था। पूरे देश के प्रमुख मुस्लिम नेताओं ने प्रधान मंत्री जी के साथ मुलाकात की थी। उन्होंने कहा था कि मदरसे ईल्म का चश्मा हैं। जो लोग मदरसों से तालीम लेकर आए हैं, उन्होंने जंगे आजादी में बहुत बड़ा रोल अदा किया है। मौलाना हसन मौहानी और मौलाना अबुल कलाम आजाद, ये सभी लोग मदरसों से पढ़कर ही आए हैं। मौजूदा बी.जे.पी. की सरकार में मैं मंत्री हूं, मैं भी मदरसे से पढ़कर आया हूं। हमारी सरकार मदरसों को कभी शक की निगाह से नहीं देखती। लेकिन हर बार जब हम कुछ अच्छा काम करना चाहते हैं, तो हमारा जो काम करने का तरीका है, वह पसंद नहीं आता इसलिए ऐसा लगता है कि शक कर रहे हैं। विद्यासागर राव जी ने या आदरणीय गृह मंत्री ने या सरकार ने कभी ऐसा नहीं कहा। संसद में प्रधान मंत्री जी कह चुके हैं कि हम मदरसों को इज्जत की निगाह से देखते हैं। सारे मदरसों को एक नजर से देखते हैं, कहीं पर कोई ऐसी दिक्कत नहीं है। जो बात आपने बताई है, मैं भी इनके क्षेत्र में गया हूं और मदरसे में भी जाकर आया हूं, सबको पूरा कांफिडेंस है। हम विश्वास दिलाते हैं कि मदरसों के खिलाफ सरकार नहीं है।
श्री नरेश पुगलिया:सभापति जी, दो दिन पहले जो ट्रेन एक्सीडेंट हुआ है, उस ट्रेन एक्सीडेंट में…( व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : आप आसन ग्रहण करिए।
…( व्यवधान)
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : This type of a statement from Shri Shahnawaz Hussain is welcome. He should convince the other people who have some misgivings. … (Interruptions)
SHRI E. AHAMED : Sir, I only brought the facts to the notice of the hon. Minister so that he could clarify them. … (Interruptions)
श्री सुरेश रामराव जाधव (परभनी) :सभापति जी, मदरसों को विदेशों द्वारा वित्त पोषण के बारे में १९ मार्च, २००२ के लोक सभा तारांकित प्रश्न के उत्तर में उल्लिखित विवरण के बारे में चर्चा है। मैं माननीय मंत्री जी से स्पेसफिकली यह जानना चाहता हूं कि उन्होंने अपने लखित उत्तर में जो उत्तर दिया है कि विदेशी अधनियम १९७६, इस समय जिस रूप में संगठनों द्वारा विदेशी धन प्राप्त करने तथा उनके उपयोग को नियंत्रित करने के संबंध में समुचित सुरक्षा प्रदान नहीं कर पा रहा है, ऐसा मंत्री जी का उत्तर है। मैं आपके माध्यम से माननीय मंत्री जी से पूछना चाहता हूं कि यह जो अधनियम १९७६ का है, इसमें संशोधन कब ला रहे हैं? ह्मेरा दूसरा सवाल है कि विदेशी धन के उपयोग को नियंत्रित करने वाला ठोस कानून बनाने केर् ौलए सरकार वर्तमान विदेशी अधनियम के स्थान पर एक नया कानून इस सदन में लाएगी, ऐसा मंत्री जी ने कहा है। यह कानून कब तक संसद में लाएगी और कब तक पारित होगा? …( व्यवधान)
श्री मधुसूदन मिस्त्री (साबरकांठा):सभापति जी,…( व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : आप आसन ैंहण करिए।
…( व्यवधान)
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO): Sir, I am thankful to all the hon. Members who have participated in the discussion.
This discussion emanates from the Starred Question No.223. It is very clear from the answers given on that day. It was asked:
"(a) whether the Government have carried out any survey regarding foreign funding to Madarsas in border areas of the country as reported in the ‘Hindustan Times’ dated February 24, 2002; if so, the facts in this regard and the outcome of survey; whether these Madarsas are financed by Karachi based trust which has not followed the legal procedures specified under the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act; "For answers to (a), (b) and (c), we said "No."
Regarding the proposed amendments which are likely to be brought about to the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act, we said, "Yes", because we are contemplating to amend the provisions of that Act.
Today’s entire discussion centred around these questions: whether the Madarsas are receiving any foreign contribution; whether they are contravening the provisions of Foreign Contribution Regulation Act; and whether they are breeding illegal and unlawful activities. This is what I could get from the arguments.
Shri Dasmunsi has clearly stated the point about the different religions in the country. It may be Hindu religion or Muslim religion or Sikh or Buddhist, this Government – it may be the Central Government or the State Governments – does not have sufficient funds to provide or infrastructure to provide to educate most of the poor students in this country. Therefore, most of the religious institutions have come up; they are getting funds from foreign countries and they are also getting funds from the well-wishers in this country. They are running Madrasas.
I totally agree with the arguments of Shri Dasmunsi; I also accept all his suggestions. There is no dispute at all. The answer given on that day was very clear. Today also, I would like to make it further clear. Shri Dasmunsi was referring to one book or some statement regardingMadarsas.
I am reading from a report called ‘Financial Assistance for modernisation of the Madarsa Education’. This is the intention of the Ministry of Human Resource Development.
"The Government of India is conscious of the importance of the Indian classical languages including Arabic and Persian, preserving the cultural heritage, maintaining social harmony and national unity. Traditional institutions like Madarsas and Maqtabas have been playing a very significant role for centuries in preserving Arabic and Persian languages and the cultural heritage of the country enriched by the synergic introduction of the Islamic traditions."The high-powered panel on minorities set up by the Government of India in 1980, while reviewing the Madarsa Education system, has emphasised the need for its modernisation. It states:
"Religious institutions like Maqtabas and Madarsas can play a useful role in imparting general and elementary technical education to their students."As my hon. Friend has stated, he was also a student of the Madarsa Education system. This Government is also trying to help modernise Madarsas. It may belong to Islamic religion, Christian religion, Sikh religion or Hindu religion or whatever religion. There is no discrimination. It has been decided that Madarsas would be encouraged and assisted to include Science, Mathematics and English in their curriculum. It has also been decided to give incentives for the introduction of computers. After all, Gen. Musharraf is also taking a number of steps in Pakistan to modernise Madarsas.
SHRI E. AHAMED : How are we concerned about what he does in Pakistan?
SHRI CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO: I just mentioned it as a passing reference.
As Shri E. Ahamed rightly said, there have been reports about some of the places of worship and religions institutions, particularly those in the border areas, suspected to be misused for carrying out anti-national activities. As my learned friend said, the Group of Ministers has accepted the report and they have also directed to have a continuous surveillance in the border areas. It is a fact that most of the militants across the border are infiltrating into India through the Madarsas located in those areas. Therefore, we have to keep surveillance over them. That is being done by BSF and other Inter-State groups.
There was another apprehension expressed about my statement. I feel it is very unfortunate that I have been misquoted. As a Minister belonging to BJP, I gave a statement in Kerala, in his constituency. It is a fact that it has appeared in many newspapers. I would clarify the position to the hon. Member with regard to what I had mentioned about Madarsas. While speaking at a convention of the Yuva Morcha of our Party, I had clearly stated that a cloud was cast on some of the Madarsas. It has been stated in many of the newspapers. I am reiterating what I had stated to the BJP workers and not what has appeared in the newspapers. I was very clear and very conscious while making this statement as Minister of State for Home Affairs. I have said that a cloud was cast on some of the Madarsas. At the same time, the hon. Member was pleased to clarify the other statement. We should not apprehend or suspect all Madarsas if some such activities are going on in some Madarsas.
SHRI E. AHAMED : What has appeared in the papers is that it is a serious threat to the security of Kerala.
SHRI CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO: I have not at all said that. I was talking about terrorism. The Convention was also about terrorism, whether it was Muslim militancy or misadventures by Pakistani outfits or Naxalite activities. So, generally about terrorism I alerted my Party workers. It is the duty of every political party, including the Congress and other parties, to do so.
SHRI E. AHAMED : I am glad that the hon. Minister has clarified the position.
SHRI CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO: As regards some of the apprehensions about some observations concerning Indian Muslims and Madarsas attributed to me in the report, it is pertinent to point out that the issue has to be appreciated in the full context and the impact of the world-wide activities of certain pan-Islamic outfits and the necessity to safeguard the ethos and traditions of Indian Muslims and their institutions from the possible negative fall-out of such efforts. For this, the Union Government is already taking steps.
In this connection, I would like to draw the attention of the House to the statement of the Minister of Human Resource Development. The Department of Secondary and Higher Education is already taking action on the issue of modernisation of Madarsa Education in the country.
Grants released for the purpose during the year 2001-02 stood at Rs. 6.6 crore as compared to Rs.2.41 crore in the year 1996-97. The total grants released during the last five years is Rs.22.1 crores. The Government of India is releasing the funds and it has decided to modernise the Madarsas and introduce mathematics, science and computer science in their curriculum. So, the question of apprehension as expressed by Shri Dasmunsi may be removed.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Since the Minister has admitted that the Group of Ministers has accepted a report on BSF and other security surveillance agencies, will the Minister inform the MPs from the border areas as to which are the Madarsas which are suspected and are under cloud so that we may not give any funds to such Madarsas. It is because we are giving them funds from the MPLAD Scheme. At least, I have given money to 20 Madarsas. If you could inform the MPs from border areas about such Madarsas, we will be very happy.
SHRI CH. VIDYASAGAR RAO: We have already submitted it to the hon. Members. I have said it a number of times earlier also. The hon. Member was trying to corner me …… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, I am asking this because we should not be misunderstood by the nation that we are giving grants to wrong Madarsas. That is my point. ..… (Interruptions)
सभापति महोदय : मंत्री जी को पहले अपनी बैंत पूरी करने दीजिए, उसके बाद आप बैंेलिए।
SHRI E. AHAMED : The hon. Minister may take the House into confidence. If there is any such Madarsa wherein a cloud has been cast, then let us be informed about it. We would also not support such Madarsas..… (Interruptions)
श्री प्रियरंजन दासमुंशी:मैंने आपको छैंेटा करने केर् ौलए नहीं बोला।…( व्यवधान)मैंने कहा क अगर आप हमें सजेस्ट करें कि फलां मदरसा को पैसा मत दो, हम नहीं देंगे, हम तो आपकी मदद करेंगे। लेकिन अगर हमारे पास सूचना नहीं होगी तो क्या हम बीएसएफ से जाकर पूछेंगे कि इसे देंगे या नहीं देंगे।…( व्यवधान)
श्री सीएच. विद्यासागर राव : बीएसएफ ने कोई भी इंटेलिजेंस को ऐसा जवाब नहीं दिया। We have not questioned Shri Dasmunsi and other MPs who are giving funds to Madarsas from the MPLAD Scheme. We are not at all objecting to it. But to elicit an answer, it is very difficult to specify certain Madarsas. There is no provision under the Foreign Contribution Regulation Act to have a general survey of the Madarsas. There is no provision. Therefore, we want a provision, if at all, where we are apprehending some of the Madarsas indulging in some anti-social activities and they may get money from out of the country or through hawala channel. Some of the Madarasas are under doubt. Action is being taken and it is under process. But making sweeping allegations against all Madarsas is not good. Most of the Madarsas are already functioning. We are definitely vigilant on some Madarsas which are leading centres in the country…… (Interruptions)
श्री र्रौतलाल कालीदास वर्मा (धन्धुका):महोदय, गुजरात सीमावर्ती प्रदेश है। उसमें बनासकांठा, कच्छ, भुज तथा कुछ ऐरियाज़ में मदरसा आए हुए हैं।…( व्यवधान)क्या उसका सर्वे आप निश्च्िैंत समय में कर पाएंगे?
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