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MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record except the speech of Shri Jaipal Reddy. (Interruptions) …* SHRI E. AHAMED : Sir, it is the Babri Mosque. They have said it. … (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ahamed, please take your seat.

SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Sir, it is indeed a colossal crime against our collective covenant, the Constitution of India. It is a monumental misdeed against our multi-cultural motherland. … (Interruptions) It has created a schism in the psyche of the people of India nay in the soul of our country. … (Interruptions) To equate it with the ordinary crime of corruption would be incorrect; to say that it is less than that would be atrocious. Sangh Parivar has regretted the incident; but refused to condemn it. … (Interruptions) Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee and Shri L.K. Advani have also regretted the incident but refused to condemn it. I have not seen a single statement of the hon. Prime Minister in the last eight years in which he ever condemned the incident. Sir, each person is entitled to his own or her own appreciation of this incident. What is relevant for our purpose is not our differing evaluations and appreciations but the report of the C.B.I., and prima facie finding of the Sessions Court of Lucknow. According to the CBI, Sir, the three Ministers were involved in a criminal conspiracy to have this Masjid demolished. The CBI further says, "A suicide squad of Bajrang Dal was trained in the Chambal Valley to demolish this Masjid". According to the CBI, I am not speaking from my knowledge, … (Interruptions)* Not Recorded MR. SPEAKER: This will not go on record please.(Interruptions) …* श्री विनय कटियार :बजरंग दल के बारे में आप जो कह रहे हैं, उसे तो कोर्ट ने खारिज कर दिया है।…( व्यवधान )

SHRI VAIKO : Are you recalling 1975?

SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : No. It is my prayer that my fears should prove to be lies. But I must articulate my fears. Many people were referring to my past. I am proud of every part of my past. Let me tell you that. I must confess that Shri Somnath Chatterjee warned us in those days itself not to embrace the BJP. He said that it would land the country in trouble.

SHRI VAIKO : Did he advise you to embrace Congress?

SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : I regret that I had not paid heed to the friendly forewarnings of the CPM leadership. … (Interruptions) I have always been moving to the Left. I have always been moving to the Left from the Right. Ravan had only ten heads, but I do not know how many heads the Sangh Pariwar has. It is an orchestra. So many instruments are sounded, but all of them convey the same message. The maestro of this orchestra is Shri Sudarshan, the Chief of the RSS who has come out with the bizarre bomb theory. He has come out with fresh information. If he knew that before, why did he not disclose that?

You complimented your present company with a choice of phrases which I must say was somewhat better than the phrases you used today. But I regret to say that when you opened by saying that you owed your duty to your conscience, I regretted whether it was a duty to convenience of the present company or to the conscience that you claimed. You said you owed your duty to the nation. The last 33 months have seen a Government under Shri Vajpayee a tension free administration where social tensions in the society have, compared to what they were earlier, substantially been reduced. … (Interruptions) But, then, on the 4th of December this year you appeared worried and you wanted to rake up issues which were otherwise not occupying the space of mind in India at the moment and you wanted to create a situation by raising issues and deliberately so. I read your own confessions as to why you raised them. You certainly use good phrases. I do recollect Shri Jaipal Reddy the great moments which you say you are proud of every moment in your life and the stance you took. You fought the tyranny of the Emergency. You were with us maybe in a different Party. You have spoken all these years about the great virtues of democracy vis-à-vis dynasty. You articulated better than any of us. You have in the past spoken out your mind even on the Ayodhya issue which I just read out. I do recollect when the issue of probity in public life came on the question of Bofors, you were again better than any of us in articulating the stance against those who were guilty, or at least those being charged and appeared to be guilty. But, then, after doing all this, when you crossed over and you said that you frown upon reconversion, well, all I can say is that those who have mastered the art of reconversion really cannot do that.And when they do it, to borrow your phrase again - I regret to use it – but I will say "et tu, Brute". Shri Jaipal Reddy, men are judged by the company they keep. And men of principles have to be judged by the company they avoid.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not disturb or interrupt him. You have to resume your seat.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : I am not going into too many details. … (Interruptions) A large number of people had assembled apparently for singing kirtans and bhajans. Then, in the presence of exalted political leaders like Shri L.K. Advani, Dr. Murli Manohar Joshi and Kumari Uma Bharati, and so many sadhvis and sadhus, ultimately, we saw that the structure that was there was no longer there. Now, how did it happen? We are not deciding it here. Nobody even has the temerity to try to do that. We have our own views. But here we have gone much further. It is because there is a very important organisation, one of the wings of the Government of India and the hon. Prime Minister – which was earlier under the Home Minister – namely the CBI which has given certain prima facie findings. Who is deciding it? But knowing that such an important issue will, no doubt, be raised, what has happened? When the demand for the resignation of the three Ministers was made, what was the response of the Government? What was the response of the hon. Prime Minister? He never came to the House. He never sent an intimation that he would come and explain the position to the House. It is because soon we found that he has made certain statements that have not only troubled us but also troubled the allies – if I may say so, with due respect to them – and rightly so. It is a different matter whether they have subsequently been satisfied or not. It is their concern. Sir, it was a matter that caused tremendous concern. One statement was clarified in the residence of a junior Minister, for whom we have a lot of affection, at an Iftaar party. I would like to say it here on record that on that very day we had a function where a journalist told me that he had to rush to the Iftaar party because the Prime Minister will give a clarification of his earlier statement. Therefore, newspersons are being called at the Iftaar party but not the Members of this House. The Members of this House are not taken into confidence. No meeting has been held. He never called the Leaders of the Opposition Parties. When the hon. Speaker tried to intervene and he did intervene, he called the Leaders for a discussion he requested the hon. Prime Minister to come but in condescension he decided not to attend. Mr. Prime Minister, you are the Leader of this House. Nobody has anything against you personally. We all respect you. You are entitled to our respect apart from holding the position of the Head of the Government of this country. Even, there was no attempt to normalise the situation; and to explain your position. Although we find that you are calling emergency meetings of the allies as if to show that you are treating the rest of the country as your enemies. Sir, you may have political differences. But this is a question of the country’s future. It has created tremendous problems. There have been communal conflagrations at Rae Barreily, at Moradabad, in South India, in Uttar Pradesh and in so many other places. It was because of the effect of the statement of the hon. Prime Minister. What crime did we commit by asking for a discussion under Rule 184? This was steadfastly refused for four days and ultimately the Government has agreed. What was this opposition for? Nobody can say that the subject matter that we wanted to discuss or we are discussing today is not of importance or not of moment. It is a matter of moment for the country as a whole for maintaining the secular foundations of this country. Sir, if the hon. Prime Minister treats some people as more important; some people as only to be looked at by him, then there is problem and the House could not sit for so many days. We have responded immediately whenever the hon. Speaker called us for a meeting. Sir, what did we find from the statement of the hon. Prime Minister? He could have said that he did not agree with the resignation of the Ministers or that he shall not remove them from the Government and that he did not find anything against them. He could have stopped there. That would have been the end of the issue. But he went much further. He said that it was the manifestation of national feelings. राष्ट्रीय भावना का प्रकटीकरण। Expression of national sentiment or national feeling."राष्ट्रीय भावना के प्रकटीकरण का जो काम था, वह अभी पूरा नहीं हुआ। "What was the provocation for this? A demand for resignation of the Ministers need not have prompted such an answer! Not once, but a second time and a third time the same thing has been repeated. At the Iftaar party also he said that. Shri Jaitley makes a very laboured presentation saying that nothing had been said and that he was trying to give a solution. First of all, what is meant by national sentiment? Whose sentiment were you referring to Mr. Prime Minister? Were you talking of all these people’s sentiment - Hindus, Muslims, Christians, Sikhs and everybody else? Are they concerned about it except by way of shock when you talked of construction of a temple there as, "वह काम अभी पूरा नहीं हुआ। " It could only refer to the construction of the temple. Who are interested in it? Who have demanded it? It is only a section of the Hindus. Mr. Prime Minister, who has given the authority, to the BJP or Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee, who has given you that authority to talk on behalf of the entire country? What is ‘bhavana’? How do you know about it? Why do you arrogate it to yourself? Is it just because you have a minority vote and you tried to have a motley combination of 27 to 28 parties for formation of Government with no similar political ideology? Now you take it upon yourself suddenly, when every matter is pending in courts. Why does not your Law Minister advise you whether you are breaching the law of sub judice or not instead of giving lecture to us? Mr. Prime Minister went further to say, ‘I have not supported the demolition of the mosque, but what is of importance is how the temple should be constructed.’ I remember, I was in this House when Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee entered from that side and stood up there. He said, ‘I regret.’ He had used the word ‘regret’. I am sorry if he has said something else, but his elaboration took away the sense of sorrow or sense of regret. Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, how are we being blamed? The entire nation, all the national newspapers, editorials, and every paper commented adversely upon it. What has happened to Atal Bihari Vajpayee? He was known to be a moderate face. Whether he was wearing a mukhauta or not I do not know, and I am not going into it but he is known to be a liberal and a moderate influence. Many members among allies have expressed their faith in Atal Bihari Vajpayee, if not in NDA as such. Suddenly what has happened? It is not only that the Prime Minister made a statement at a very crucial stage, for sometime now, we find that VHP has started making noises. Shri J.P. Mathur, a very senior member of BJP had said and I quote it from The Hindu published in 1997:"The BJP believes the Ram temple issue as an important issue connected with emotions and national sentiments. As for the feelings of Muslims, I would say that in India we have often respected their feelings. They should also appreciate the sentiments of the majority community."Is it the spirit of accommodation that is being talked about? Is this the expression of national sentiment? The VHP is taking steps. They have said that the construction materials are now ready and that it would be done during the Kumbha Mela. Let us see the circumstances and consider them. What did Shri Vajpayee say in his meeting at the Staten Islands? This is the editorial of The Hindustan Times of 8th December:"At a function that was organised by the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, he reassured sadhus angry with NDA’s betrayal of the BJP agenda by declaring that he was a swayamsevak and would remain one. His current statement therefore is being treated as a proof that he has had a change of heart. Mr. Vajpayee needs to tell us where he stands. He needs also to emphasise that a sectarian movement cannot be described as an expression of rashtriya bhavana in a pluralistic society. As Prime Minister, he needs to choose his words more carefully. Mr. L.K. Advani has yet to condemn the demolition or to admit that it was a deeply shameful affair. Similarly, Mr. Murli Manohar Joshi will not go beyond calling it unfortunate. All these suggest that despite his failing power and despite his show of moderation, the BJP still retains the potential to become the party of the rath yatra, of the demolition and the mayhem that followed." There are other things also. We have found how the VHP is making preparations. They have said that the sadhus would make an announcement during the Kumbha Mela about the timetable for the construction of the temple. We have found that there is no denial that a large number of carvings are being done. They are otherwise ready. It is only a question of taking and putting the items there. The Indian Express of the 8th December says:"The VHP General Secretary … told a press conference in the afternoon, ‘The Prime Minister has given voice to the feelings of the country’s 900 million Hindus’ and added that a convoy of trucks carrying stones for the construction of the sanctum sanctorum of the temple left Rajasthan yesterday and would reach Ayodhya within a week. "