Lok Sabha Debates
Recent Visit To India By The Secretary Of State Of The United States Of America, Ms. ... on 21 July, 2009
> 16.02 hrs. Title: Recent visit to India by the secretary of state of the United States of America, Ms. Hillary Clinton MR. CHAIRMAN: Shri S.M. Krishna to make a Statement on recent visit to India by the Secretary of State of the United States of America, Ms. Hillary Clinton.
THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI S.M. KRISHNA): Sir, I rise to inform the House of the visit of the U.S Secretary of State Ms. Hillary Clinton to India. Secretary of State Clinton held talks with me, and called on the Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition yesterday.
During the visit, we held productive and constructive discussions on global issues, the situation in our region and on how to enhance our bilateral partnership.
Our Governments have concluded two important agreements: (i) on creation of a Science and Technology Endowment Board; and, (ii) a Technical Safeguards Agreement which will permit the launch of civil or non-commercial satellites containing US components on Indian space launch vehicles.
We have also agreed on the end-use monitoring arrangements that will henceforth be referred to in letters of acceptance for Indian procurement of US defence technology and equipment. This, Mr. Chairman, Sir, systematizes ad hoc arrangements for individual defence procurements from the USA entered into by previous Governments.
We have also agreed on a new bilateral dialogue architecture within which we will continue discussions between our two countries on a wide range of issues.
The visit has helped to broaden and deepen our bilateral relationship and to set the terms of future engagement between India and the United States of America.
A copy of the joint statement issued after our discussions is placed on the Table of the House.
India-US Joint Satement New Delhi, July 20, 2009 External Affairs Minister S.M. Krishna and Secretary of State Hillary Clinton today committed to building an enhanced India-U.S. strategic partnership that seeks to advance solutions to the defining challenges of our time.
They agreed to strengthen the existing bilateral relationships and mechanisms for cooperation between the Government of Republic of India and the Government of the United States of America, while leveraging the strong foundation of economic and social linkages between our respective people, private sectors and institutions. Recognizing the new heights achieved in the India – U.S. relationship over the last two Indian and U.S. Administrations, they committed to pursuing a third and transformative phase of the relationship that will enhance global prosperity and stability in the 21st century.
Minister Krishna and Secretary Clinton will chair an “India-U.S. Strategic Dialogue” that meets once annually in alternate capitals. This dialogue will focus on a wide range of bilateral, global and regional issues of shared interested and common concern, continuing programmes currently under implementation and taking mutually beneficial initiatives that complement Indian and U.S. development, security and economic interests.
Secretary Clinton looks forward to welcoming Minister Krishna for the first round of the Strategic Dialogue in Washington, D.C. in the coming year.
ADVANCING COMMON SECURITY INTERESTS Recognizing the shared common desire to increase mutual security against the common threats posed by international terrorism, Minister Krishna and Secretary Clinton reaffirmed the commitment of both Governments to build on recent increased coordination in counter-terrorism. Secretary Clinton invited Home Minister Chidambaram to visit Washington in the near future. External Affairs Minister Krishna and Secretary Clinton also reaffirmed their commitment to early adoption of a UN Comprehensive Convention against International Terrorism which would strengthen the framework for global cooperation.
DEFENCE CO-OPERATION Noting the enhanced co-operation in defence under the Defence Co-operation Framework Agreement of 2005, External Affairs Minister and Secretary Clinton reiterated the commitment of both Governments to pursue mutually beneficial cooperation in the field of defence. External Affairs Minister Krishna announced that both sides had reached agreement on End Use Monitoring for U.S. defence articles.
SEEKING A WORLD WITHOUT NUCLEAR WEAPONS India and the United States share a vision of a world free of nuclear weapons. With this goal in sight, Minister Krishna and Secretary Clinton agreed to move ahead in the Conference on Disarmament towards a non-discriminatory, internationally and effectively verifiable Fissile Material Cut-off Treaty. India and the United States will also cooperate to prevent nuclear terrorism and address the challenges of global nuclear proliferation. A high-level bilateral dialogue will be estabilshed to enhance cooperation on these issues.
CIVIL NUCLEAR CO-OPERATION Building on the success of the India-U.S. Civil Nuclear Initiative, on July 21, India and the United States will begin consultations on reprocessing arrangements and procedures, as provided in Article 6 (iii) of the 123 Agreement for Peaceful Nuclear Cooperation between India and the United States.
GLOBAL INSTITUTIONS Secretary Clinton affirmed that multilateral organisations and groupings should reflect the world of the 21st century in order to maintain long-term credibility, relevance and effectiveness and both Minister Krishna and Secretary Clinton expressed their interest in exchaning views on new configurations of the UN Security Council, the G-8 and the G-20.
PURSUING SUSTAINABLE ECONOMIC GROWTH AND DEVELOPMENT As members of the G-20, India and the United States have pledged to work together with other major economies to foster a sustainable recovery from the global economic crisis through a commitment to open trade and investment policies. Minister Krishna and Secretary Clinton reaffirmed the commitment of both Governments to facilitating a pathway forward on the WTO Doha Round.
They pledged to co-operate to not only preserve the economic synergies between the two countires that have grown over the years, but also to increase and diversify bilateral economic relations and expand trade and investment flows. The two sides noted that negotiations for a Bilateral Investment Treaty would be scheduled in New Delhi in August 2009. They resolved to harness the ingenuity and entrepreneurship of the private sectors of both countries with a newly-configured CEO Forum that will meet later this year.
EDUCATION External Affairs Minister Krishna and Secretary of State Clinton affirmed the importance of expanding educational cooperation through exchanges and institutional collaboration and agreed on the need to expand the role of the private sector in strengthening this collaboration.
SPACE, SCIENCE AND TECHNOLOGY AND INNOVATION Recognizing the great potential in India-U.S., Science and technology collaboration, the two sides have concluded a Science and Technology Endowment Agreement and signed a Technology Safeguards Agreement that will permit the launch of civil or non-commerical satellites containing U.S. components on Indian space launch vehicles. Both sides welcomed India’s participation in the FutureGen Project for the construction of the first commercial scale fully integrated carbon capture and sequestration project and India’s participation in the International Ocean Drilling Programme, an international endeavour for enhancing the understanding of Earth and Ocean dynamics and addressing the challenges of climate change.
HIGH TECHNOLOGY CO-OPERATION Noting the high potential that exists due to the complementarities in the knowledge and innovation-based economies of the two countries, it was agreed that the agenda and the initiatives in the bilateral High Technology Cooperation Dialogue should continue, with the objective of facilitating smoother trade in high technology between the two economies reflecting the present strategic nature of the India – U.S. relationship.
It was also agreed that working groups would be formed to focus on new areas of common interest in nano-technology, civil nuclear technology, civil aviation and licensing issues in defence, strategic and civil nuclear trade.
ENERGY SECURITY, ENVIRONMENT AND CLIMATE CHANGE Minister Krishna and Secretary Clinton pledged to intensify collaboration on energy security and climate change. Efforts will focus on increasing energy efficiency, renewable energy and clean energy technologies through the India-U.S. Energy Dialogue and a Global Climate Change Dialogue.
Both sides also agreed to launch a process of bilaternal scientific and technological collaboration to support the development, deployment and transfer of transformative and innovative technologies in areas of mutual interest including solar and other renewable energy, clean coal and energy efficiency and other relevant areas.
India and the U.S. affirmed their commitment to work together with other countries, including through the Major Economies Forum for positive results in the UNFCCC Conference on Climate Change in Copenhagen in December 2009.
GLOBAL ISSUES The two sides noted the valuable engagement between both Goverments on global issues of common concern such as strengthening democracy and capacity building in democratic institutions as co-founders of the UN Democracy Fund.
The two sides agreed to develop a Women’s Empowerment Forum (WEF) to exchange lessons and best practices on women’s empowerment and development and consider ways to empower women in the region and beyond.
CONCLUSION Minister Krishna and Secretary Clinton reaffirmed that the excellent relations between India and the United States rests on the bedrock of kinship, commerce and educational ties between the Indian and American people.
Secretary Clinton thanked External Affairs Minister and the people of India for their warm reception and hospitality.
[Placed in Library, See No. LT-403/15/09] SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA (GHATAL): There remains a question to be answered.… (Interruptions)
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA (HAZARIBAGH): He has not answered any of the questions that we raised in the morning.… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : This is not a debate.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA : Has he taken the House into confidence?… (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI (GANDHINAGAR): I wish to say that we had not asked for a full statement on the visit of the Secretary of State of US. This morning, an issue was raised by my colleague Shri Yashwant Sinha and almost the entire Opposition endorsed what he had said. We said that we would like to have this matter clarified today itself. Otherwise, we are going to have a structured debate on various matters relating to foreign affairs including the India Pakistan Joint Statement. We are going to have it, and we will ask all other questions including some of those that have been mentioned here. But today we expected that the External Affairs Minister would come out with a clarification on this point where he has said that we have also agreed on the end-use monitoring arrangements that will henceforth be referred to in letters of acceptance for Indian procurement of US defence technology and equipment. Not only that. He goes on to say that this systematizes ad hoc arrangements for individual defence procurements from the USA entered into by previous Governments also so that it is in a way trying to have end-use arrangements made into a formal systematic arrangement even in respect of earlier matters. This is something very disturbing. Therefore, I expected that the questions that have been raised by several colleagues from this side would be answered by the External Affairs Minister. I think that in view of what has just been said in this statement, you allow a debate to go on right now so that all questions are addressed. If that is going to happen, I would stop here. Otherwise, in this House, because there has been no practice of asking questions as is there in the other House, today I would think that as a matter of protest, my Party would like to register a walk out.
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): None of the questions that we raised today in the morning has been clarified by the Minister while making the statement. We did not want this statement. The points we raised were about why we wanted a statement. That is why we demanded a statement. We demanded a clarification from the Government. Why did the Government of India agree for end use monitoring by the United States of America? And they want to formalize the system! This is nothing but surrendering to the United States of America. So, none of the questions that had been raised by the entire Opposition has been clarified by the Minister of External Affairs. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : No more debate please. We cannot allow debate on this. Shri Bapiraju to continue.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : It is the right of the House. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : Rules do not permit debate after the Minister’s statement.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : We did not want this type of statement.… (Interruptions) We wanted a clarification from the Minister.… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : Hon. Members, we are bound by rules. Rules do not permit a debate. Shri Bapiraju to continue. Nothing should go on record. You have to bear with me.
(Interruptions) … * SHRI ANANTH KUMAR (BANGALORE SOUTH): Sir, you have to protect us. You listen to us.… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: We have to go by rules.
… (Interruptions)
* Not recorded SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : The Minister has scant regard for this House. The entire Opposition has been demanding.… (Interruptions)
`MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, rules do not permit a debate. Hon. Leader of the Opposition has made his statement.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI ANANTH KUMAR : The other leaders are there. Please listen to them also. … (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : There is nothing in the statement as to why the Government had to sign this agreement. Why was such an agreement signed? … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, please sit down. Who would like to make a statement? Just seek clarifications please.
SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : Hon. Chairman, Sir, the entire Opposition expressed undiluted apprehension as to how the technology that is being borrowed or being asked for from USA would be used. The end-use is subject to inspection by the American people, maybe military men. It means Indian defence installations where these equipment are being used will be subjected to the supervision of the American people. This makes us vulnerable. This makes us completely subservient to the American inspection. It is a surrender of our sovereignty.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have made your point.
SHRI YASHWANT SINHA : Sir, in the morning when I had raised this issue with the permission of the Deputy-Speaker, I had raised some very specific issues which had appeared in a somewhat rudimentary manner in the newspapers. सारी सूचना अखबारों के माध्यम से हमें नहीं मिली। हमें कुछ-कुछ सूचना मिली कि एंड यूज मॉनीटरिंग एग्रीमैन्ट, एंड यूज वैरिफिकेशन एग्रीमैन्ट ऐसा कुछ भारत सरकार और अमेरिका के बीच में तय हुआ है। चूंकि इसके बारे में थोड़ी जानकारी हमें भी है, उस मंत्रालय में मैंने भी सर्व किया है, इसलिए मेरे मन में कई प्रकार की शंकाएं पैदा हुईं, जिन्हें मैंने यहां रखा। मैंने कहा कि जैसे स्पेसिफिकली जो थर्ड कंट्री इम्पोर्ट्स होते हैं, उसमें अगर अमेरिकन इक्युपमैन्ट लगा है, अमेरिकन टैक्नोलोजी का इस्तेमाल हुआ है तो उस पर भी यह लागू होगा। यह एक सवाल था, जो मैंने पूछा कि खास तौर पर सरकार की तरफ से बताया जाए कि अमेरिका से जो खरीदेंगे, उस पर तो लगेगा ही लगेगा, तीसरे मुल्क से जो खरीदेंगे, उस पर भी लगेगा और मैं जानता हूं कि इस प्रकार की बात है। इसीलिए मैं इस सदन में जिम्मेदारी के साथ इस बात को उठा रहा हूं। इसके बाद मैंने कहा कि सरकार की तरफ से यह बयान दिया गया है कि जो चल है, चल मतलब अचल से भिन्न चल, जो मूवेबल है, उसे हम लोग दिखा देंगे। प्रधान मंत्री के लिए एयरक्राफ्ट है, एक हाई सिक्युरिटी एयरक्राफ्ट खरीदा जा रहा है, जिसमें कि बहुत विशेष तौर के रडार वगैरह लगाये जायेंगे, लिखा गया कि इसे हम किसी नॉन एयरफोर्स बेस पर लाकर दिखा देंगे। लेकिन मैंने सवाल किया जो अचल है, जो इम्मूवेबल है, उसमे वैरिफिकेशन कैसे होगा, उसे उठाकर कैसे लायेंगे? बंगलुरू में अगर कोई संयंत्र लगा, जिसमें इनकी टैक्नोलोजी या इनका इक्युपमैन्ट यूज किया गया तो उसे कैसे लायेंगे? इसलिए मुझे शक हुआ कि जनता को गुमराह करने के दृष्टिकोण से इस प्रकार का सलैक्टिवली मीडिया में किया जा रहा है, ताकि देश संतुष्ट रहे कि ऐसा कुछ नहीं है। That is why I said that in this regard the Government should come clean in this House. This is the highest Panchayat of this country. We have a right to know what the Government has agreed with a foreign Government. Then we have, as our Leader of Opposition has said, a very bland statement here of two sentences which conveys nothing at all. Where are the answers to those questions which all of us raised? There is nothing at all in the statement, Sir. There is nothing at all. Therefore, we are completely dissatisfied; this statement is not worth the paper on which it is written! *m06 श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव (मैनपुरी): सभापति महोदय, अभी माननीय श्री यशवंत सिंहा ने जो कुछ कहा, उसी आधार पर हम सभी विपक्ष के सभी लोगों ने अपनी राय और सहमति व्यक्त की है। जब हमने अपनी आचार-संहिता दी है कि जो टैक्नौलौजी देंगे, उस पर अपनाउत्तर देंगे तो उसकी जांच करेंगे। जैसा कहा गया कि बंगलौर में या कई और जगह भी हैं, वहां पर जाकर इनका सारा का सारा सामान उठाकर ले जायेंगे या हम अपनी टैक्नौलोजी से या अपने तरीके से कर रहे हैं, क्या उनको भी अमरीका जाकर देखेगा? जो भी जांच करने वाले आयेंगे, वे अमरीका से आयेंगे और दूसरी तरफ और जगह से भी? यह सब से खतरनाक है कि अमरीका सेदूसरे या तीसरे देश में टैक्नौलौजी गई, वहां भी हटा ली गई तो उसकी भी जांच होगी? क्या अमरीका हमारा मालिक है? हमारा अपना स्वतंत्र देश है, उसकी अपनी सुरक्षा और स्वाभिमान है। हमारी अपनी नीति है। एक स्वतंत्र देश की नीति अपनाई गई। मुझे लगता है कि आप नेहरू जी को भूल गये? आप नेहरू जी को पढ़ लेना। उन्होंने कहा था कि हमारे देश की विदेश नीतिया हमारे देश की सुरक्षा के मामले में कोई हस्तक्षेप नहीं करेगा। अगर हमारे देश की सुरक्षा के मामले में कोई हस्तक्षेप करेगा तो हम बर्दाश्त नहीं करेंगे। यहां तक कहा कि अगर दुनिया में कहीं इस तरह का अन्याय होगा तो हम चुप नहीं रहेंगे। यह नेहरू जी की नीति रही है। हम तो आपको नेहरू जी के बारे में बताना चाहते हैं। हमें लगता है कि आप गांधी को भूले हैं, नेहरू जी को भी भूल गये हैं। इसलिये हम विदेश मंत्री जी के बयान से सहमत नहीं हैं। यह कोई गुड्डा-गुड़िया का खेल नहीं है कि ऐसे ही बात कर ली। यह देश की सुरक्षा का सवाल है, देश के स्वाभिमान का सवाल है। इसलिये मैं मंत्री जी के बयान से सहमत नहीं हूं।
*m07 श्री शरद यादव (मधेपुरा): सभापति जी, मैं आपके माध्यम से निवेदन करूंगा कि सरकार के समर्थन में एनटायर लोग हैं, और हम सब लोग हैं, वामपंथी लोग हैं, बहुत गम्भीरता से कहा...( व्यवधान)आप सब लोगों ने मामला उठाया, यह अच्छी बात है , आप परेशान क्यों हैं? मैं अच्छी बात उठा रहा हूं कि आप के समर्थन के बावजूद भी मंत्री जी का बयान बिलकुल निर्गुण है। विदेशमंत्री जी नये नये बने हैं। मैं आपसेकहना चाहता हूं कि यह केवलएंड यूज़ वाला मामला नहीं है। जब जार्ज बुश साहब यहां आये थे तो अमरीका के कुत्ते गांधी जी की समाधि पर गये थे और आज देश के पूर्व राष्ट्रपतिका फिज़िकल सर्च किया गया है। जूते से लेकर सारी चीज़ उतार कर सर्च किया गया। इसमें एक सवाल नहीं है, एक बात नहीं है। आप जिस तरह से अमरीका से बात कर रहे हैं जबकि हमारे देश की जनसंख्या उनसे चौगुनी-पांच गुनी है। हमारा राष्ट्रीय स्वाभिमान है, उसे आप लगातार कुचल रहे हैं।आप उनसे बातचीत कर रहे हैं और यहां बयान देने को तैयार हुये। इसलिये इसमें एक सवाल नहीं है, इसमें कई सवालहैं। कई बार ऐसा हुआ है। अभी शर्म अल शेख में जो कुछ आपने किया, बलूचिस्तान का जिक्र देश की आजादी के 60 सालों में कभी नहीं हुआ है। इस बारे में कोई सवाल नहीं था जो आपने पिंडोरा बाक्स खोल दिया। आपने पूरी तरह से अमरीका को देख लिया है, उसके बाद भी उनसे बातचीत करके उसके साथ उनके अनुसार चलने का काम कर रहे हैं। इसलिये यह एक सवाल नहीं है, कई सवाल हैं जिनके चलते आप उसकी तरफ झुके हुये हैं और आपकी विदेश नीति अमरीका के पास गिरवी रखी हुई है। इसलिये मैं सरकार पर यह चार्ज लगाना चाहता हूं, यह नहीं होना चाहिये।
MR. CHAIRMAN : Okay; this is not a debate; you made your point.
SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): Mr. Chairman, I stand here to express my anguish. We had demanded a statement in the morning; but this statement hides many things than exposing what we had actually wanted. We wanted to know what prompted this Government to go into this type of bilateral agreement. What has been mentioned here is that the visit had helped to broaden and deepen our bilateral relationship with the US does this broaden and deepen the bilateral relationship at the cost of our sovereignty? That is the question. I remember, 30 years ago when defence arrangement and procurement was being discussed, specifically, consciously the Government of India had taken a decision in the late sixties and early seventies that we will not allow any Government, whosoever and how mighty it may be, to incorporate or to be a participant in Indian Defence mechanism where we have to forego our sovereignty. That was the decision in late sixties and early seventies and it continued. The whole House during that time also had taken a very conscious decision that we will abide by the decision. During the cold war period that was the decision that was being implemented. Irrespective of Party affiliation, all had supported that decision. What has happened today? Cold war has ended, no doubt but we will not allow one single hegemony to control this world. India has been repeatedly against hegemonism. I would again request before all Members of this House and also to this Government, this Statement does not mitigate our anguish. I would again request, there is still time for this Government to come out clean on this Agreement.
श्रीमती सुषमा स्वराज (विदिशा): महोदय, सबसे पहले मैं मंत्री महोदय को यह बताना चाहती हूं कि एंड यूज़ मॉनीटरिंग एग्रीमेंट का विरोध इस सदन में आज पहली बार नहीं हो रहा है। वर्ष 2008 में भी इसका विरोध इतने ही पुरजोर ढ़ंग से इसी सदन में हुआ था। यह अलग बात है कि विदेश मंत्री जी उस समय इस सदन के सदस्य नहीं थे, लेकिन सरकार एक निरन्तरता का नाम है और उन्हें यह बात जरूर बतायी जा चुकी होगी कि देश की संसद इसके विरोध में थी। मैं मंत्री महोदय से जानना चाहती हूं कि केवल सांसद ही नहीं आपके अपने ऑफिसियल स्टैब्लिशमेंट ने भी इसका विरोध किया है। ...* ने इस एग्रीमेंट को इन्ट्रयुसिव कहा है। उन्होंने कहा है कि जब हम कोई चीज खरीदते हैं तो हम पैसा दे देते हैं, हमने पैसा दे दिया, टैक्नोलॉजी खरीद ली, अब उसके मास्टर हम हैं और अब उस पर कोई इंस्पैक्शन नहीं कर सकता है। इसके लिए उन्होंने इन्ट्रयुसिव शब्द का प्रयोग किया है। सीएजी की रिपोर्ट आयी है, इसमें भी विरोध किया गया है। मैं यह जानना चाहती हूं कि संसद के विरोध को, अपने ऑफिसियल स्टैब्लिशमेंट के विरोध को, सीएजी के विरोध को एक तरफ रखते हुए आपने इस तरह के समझौते पर हस्ताक्षर क्यों किये?
महोदय, मेरा दूसरा सवाल है कि हम भी अमेरिका के साथ अच्छे रिश्तों के पक्षधर रहे हैं, लेकिन माननीय मंत्री जी हम दोस्ती के स्तर पर रिश्ता चाहते हैं, दासता के स्तर पर नहीं। आपका यह समझौता दासता का प्रदर्शन कर रहा है इसलिए हम इसका विरोध कर रहे हैं। अभी शरद यादव जी ने कांटीनेंटल एयरलाइंस के व्यवहार पर माननीय कलाम जी की बात कही। भारत की भूमि पर, भारत के पूर्व राष्ट्रपति के जूते, मौजे सुरक्षा के नाम पर उतरवा दिये जाएं, यह क्या है? इस एक घटना से पूरे देश के लोगों का स्वाभिमान हिल गया है। हर देशवासी आहत हुआ है, लेकिन शासकों का स्वाभिमान नहीं हिला, उनका स्वाभिमान आहत नहीं हुआ है। मैं आपसे कहना चाहती हूं कि दासता के स्तर तक अमेरिका के साथ मत जाइए। जो चीज हम खरीदते हैं, उसका वे आकर इंस्पैक्शन करेंगे, जैसा कि सिन्हा जी ने कहा कि अगर हम दूसरे देश से खरीदते हैं और अगर उसमें भी कोई डुएल यूज का पुर्जा अमेरिका का बना हुआ लगायें, तो वे आकर उसका भी इंस्पैक्शन करेंगे। ऐसा समझौता हमें कतई मंजूर नहीं है। यह लोकतंत्र का तकाजा है कि अगर आपने इस समझौते पर कल हस्ताक्षर कर दिये हैं तो यह संसद लोकप्रतिनिधित्व संस्था है और लोक का दबाव मानते हुए इस समझौते को समाप्त करें।Abrogate this Agreement. This is my demand to you.
DR. M. THAMBIDURAI (KARUR): In the morning most of the Members of this House had raised a serious issue.… (Interruptions)
* Not recorded MR. CHAIRMAN : Hon. Members, no cross-talk please. The Chair is here to control the House.
DR. M. THAMBIDURAI (KARUR): Mr. Chairman, Sir, in the morning most of the Members, especially from the Opposition, had raised a serious issue and asked the Government to come out clean with a Statement on what has happened with regard to the Agreement with the USA. The Minister in his Statement has stated, “We have also agreed on the End-use Monitoring Agreement”. What does this mean? How can the USA come and monitor the whole thing here? We have to safeguard our sovereignty. As has been said by the other Member, when we are purchasing these equipment, we have every right to do whatever we want to do. Shrimati Sushma Swaraj just now said that a friendly relationship should be there and not the kind of relationship where they could dictate terms to us, that is why, we are worried. The Minister says, ‘we will continue discussion’. Now what are you going to discuss? Once you have signed the agreement, you have concluded everything. Therefore, what are you going to discuss? Are you going to withdraw the agreement? This is what we want to know. All the hon. Members’ serious concern is that we cannot pledge our sovereignty to any foreign country. Therefore, first of all, you withdraw this kind of agreement. This is our expectation from you.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Hon. Members, let us resume our discussion on Demands for Grants.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, I have not spoken.… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have already spoken once.
… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Hon. Members, please sit down. This is not a debate. Please sit down. The Leader of the Opposition wants to speak.
श्री लाल कृष्ण आडवाणी : सभापति जी, मुझे स्मरण है कि इसी प्रकार की स्थिति पहले भी खड़ी हुई थी जब 123 एग्रीमैंट की बात थी। तब हमें लगता था कि दुनिया के बहुत सारे देशों में - अमरीका उनमें से एक है - कि जहाँ पर अगर कोई सरकार कोई वैदेशिक समझौता करती है तो उसको पुष्टि के लिए वहाँ की कांग्रेस के पास आना पड़ता है। मुझे लगा कि अगर इस प्रकार के कोई भी समझौते होते हैं जिनका देश की सार्वभौमिकता पर प्रभाव पड़ता है, देश की एकता पर प्रभाव पड़ता है, उनके बारे में संविधान में परिवर्तन करने की ज़रूरत पड़े तो भी करना चाहिए कि भारत का संविधान इस प्रकार के समझौतों में संसद की पुष्टि आवश्यक माने - कहीं पर भी सार्वभौमिकता पर प्रभाव पड़ेगा या देश की एकता पर प्रभाव पड़ेगा तो उसकी पुष्टि संसद करे। मुझे लगता है कि कल आपने जो समझौता किया है, वह हमारी उस आशंका को और मज़बूत करता है और आवश्यक बनाता है कि इस प्रकार का संशोधन संविधान में किया जाए कि इस प्रकार के समझौते कोई न करे। कोई कल्पना नहीं कर सकता कि कोई यहाँ पर आकर मॉनीटरिंग करे। यहाँ तक कि123 एग्रीमैंट के बारे में भी जब राज्य सभा में प्रधान मंत्री बोले थे, तब उन्होंने कहा था कि हम ऐसी स्थिति कभी बर्दाश्त नहीं करेंगे कि कोई विदेशी प्रतिनिधि यहाँ आकर मॉनीटर करे। आपने स्वयं ने मान लिया? न केवल कल की बात में माना है, बल्कि यदि पूर्व की सरकार ने कोई समझौता किया है तो उसके लिए भी मान लिया है। ये सारी की सारी बातें ऐसी हैं कि जिनके साथ जैसे पिछले सप्ताह मैंने कहा, उस वक्त लगता ऐसा था कि जैसे सदन ही, विपक्ष ही सरकारी पक्ष से सहमत नहीं है। लेकिन जैसे जैसे बातें सामने आई हैं, वैसे लगता है कि जो इंडिया-पाकिस्तान जॉइंट स्टेटमैंट प्रधान मंत्री ने स्वीकार किया है, उसके साथ न केवल विपक्ष, लेकिन सरकारी पक्ष के भी बहुत सारे लोग सहमत नहीं हैं। यहाँ तक कि सरकारी पक्ष के प्रवक्ता ने उसकी पुष्टि करने से इंकार किया है। यह तो पहली बार हिन्दुस्तान के राजनीतिक इतिहास में हुआ है। मैं समझता हूँ कि सरकार को इस मामले में सबक लेकर वैदेशिक मामलों में बहुत सावधानी बरतनी चाहिए। जो कुछ दृश्य आज दिखाई दे रहा है, उससे लगता है कि दो सप्ताह में लगातार दो बार आपने ऐसी बात की है जिसके कारण जो एक राष्ट्रीय सहमति बनी थी आतंकवाद के संदर्भ में, राष्ट्रीय सहमति बनी है कि विदेशी सरकारों के प्रभाव में आकर हमें कोई काम नहीं करना चाहिए, उस सहमति को आपने तोड़ दिया है। एक बार पिछली बार और एक बार आज। हम इसका विरोध करते हैं।
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, we did not want this type of statement… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have already spoken. A Member cannot speak twice. You have already spoken. Mr. Acharia, please sit down. Nothing should go on record.
(Interruptions) …* MR. CHAIRMAN: He has already spoken.
… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Will the Minister like to say something?
…( व्यवधान)
श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : हम इससे सहमत नहीं हैं। हम वाकआउट करते हैं।
16.30 hrs. (At this stage, Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav and some other hon. Members lef the House) SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, since the Government has not satisfactorily responded to our queries, in protest, we are walking out… (Interruptions)
16.31 hrs. (At this stage, Shri Basu Deb Acharia and some other hon. Members left the House.) THE MINISTER OF EXTERNAL AFFAIRS (SHRI S.M. KRISHNA): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am rather surprised to the kind of interpretation that is sought to be given to a bilateral understanding between two sovereign countries. Well, I do realize that I also belong to a proud country with a civilization about which we always talk so tall about. So, the question of bartering our freedom; the question of bartering our sovereignty does not certainly arise out of this situation. This is a bilateral agreement between two sovereign countries. It is not as if it has not been done earlier. What was being done at every point of time when certain purchases were made at the high-end Defence equipment, there was a clause where this end-
* Not recorded use clause was incorporated in that agreement. But here what we have tried to do is to generalize it for all high-end Defence purchases hereafter between the United States and India… (Interruptions) This is what we are doing with every other country. So, there is nothing extraordinary about it. Everything is very straight. We are conscious of what we are doing. It is in the larger interest of the country that this has been done… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : No more debate on this.
… (Interruptions)
श्री लाल कृष्ण आडवाणी : महोदय, मंत्री जी ने उत्तर दिया है। यह तो परम्परा बन गई है, जिस तरह से राज्य सभा में सवाल जवाब पूछे जाते हैं और उनका उत्तर दिया जाता है। लेकिन इस सदन में अभी तक यह परम्परा नहीं थी। इसीलिए मैं शुरू में रिस्पोन्स की आग्रह नहीं कर रहा था। लेकिन मित्रों ने रिस्पोन्स का आग्रह किया, आपने रिस्पोन्स दिया, उससे हम पूरी तरह से असंतुष्ट हैं, क्योंकि एक भी बात इन्होंने हम को नहीं समझाई है, जो कि इसमें नहीं है। जो इसमें है, केवल उसी को कहा है। आप कह रहे हैं कि जो हमने किया है, सही है, कोई गलत नहीं है। मैं मानता हूं कि इससे पूरे देश को गलत संदेश गया है। ज्वाइंट स्टेटमेंट पर जब स्ट्रक्चर्ड डिबैट होगी, तब हम उस पर और विस्तार से कहेंगे। अभी हम बहिर्गमन करते हैं।
16.33 hrs. (At this stage, Shri L.K. Advani, Shri Sharad Yadav and some other hon. Members left the House.) SHRI B. MAHTAB : We also are not satisfied… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) … * * Not recorded