Lok Sabha Debates
Demand Of A Statement From Hon''Ble. Home Minister Regarding Construction Plan ... on 5 June, 1998
> Title : Demand of a statement from Hon'ble. Home Minister regarding construction plan of Ram Temple at the site of Babri Masjid in Ayodhya. SHRI RAJESH PILOT : Mr. Speaker, Sir, our friend Shri Banatwalla raised a question in the House that a nation wide debate is going on and we said so the day this government announced its national agenda. Hon'ble Mr. Prime Minister spoke from this bench and Shri Advani also spoke. There were contradictions in the language used by the two leaders. Shri Advani had stated openly that they have not forgotten all those issues. Later on, it appeared in the newspapers as well. We said so the same day that there is a hidden agenda in this national agenda. Now the magazine 'Week' has written about your entire plan and brought it out in the open that you are making preparations for construction of the temple. The VHP President, Shri Singhal has given a statement that it is proposed to construct the temple at the same site with in two years. This statement is giving rise to speculation throughout the country. The Minister of Home Affairs is present in the House today, hence he should tell the country very clearly as to whether you'll wait for the judgement of the court or not and whether you'll honour the verdict of the court or not. You are making preparations as per your hidden agenda. Do you propose to construct the temple using the V.H.P. and the sages as a shield? You should make it clear to us and you should not keep the country in dark. Hon'ble Minister of Home Affairs should clarify the position in the statement he is going to make today. As 320 pillars are being made. All the measurements are given very clearly in the magazine 'week' that there is a requirement for coverage of one lakh and seventy five thousand cubic feet and material for the coverage of forty thousand cubic feet is ready. The rest of the work is proposed to be completed in the next two years. If such preparations are being made, Hon,ble Minister of Horns Affairs should tell the country men... (Interruptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER ; Do you want to speak on the same subject?
[Translation] SHRI BALRAM JAKHAR ( BIKANER ) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, Shri Khurana had stated in the House very clearly with regard to the construction of the temple that there is no such proposal, however it is hard to be"eve in view of the past history. Hence hon'ble Shri Advani should clarify the position and assure the House .... (Interruptions) SHR! SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR) : Sir, I will take one minute.
The matter which has been raised is very important. The detailed account that has been published in a responsible journal calls for an immediate intervention by the Government. Government have to make the position clear because one of the important religious fucntionaries, Mahant Nitya Gopal Das, has said that Ram will not wait for the BJP. We want to know whether the Government will wait for the temple or not because on an earlier occasion, even the assurance and the undertaking given to the Supreme Court was not kept. The same political personage is again occupying the important position of Chief Ministers hip of Uttar Pradesh now, during whose regime, according to us, the shameful incident had happened. We want a very categorical reply from the Home Minister, specially, when his party is in power in Uttar Pardesh. Would the Government give an undertaking to the House and through the House to the nation that nothing like this - as has been stated here - is being done or proposed to be done? What is the response of the Government to it?
[Translation] SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN (HAJIPUR) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, (interruptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seat. I have allowed Shri Paswan to speak. [Translation]
MR. SPEAKER : This is the zero hour. There is no point of order in the zero hour. Kindly sit down. (Interruptions)
SHR! RAM VILAS PASWAN : Mr. Speaker, Sir, on one hand, the country is passing through the period of financial crunch and grappling with the basic problems and on the other hand, the government are drawing the attention of the people of the country deliberately towards the nuclear tests and construction of Rama temple so thai attention may be diverted from the basic problems facing the country .... (interruptions) SHRI VIJAY GOEL : Do you oppose it ?
SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN : Yes, we oppose both the nuclear tests as well as the construction of Rama temple.... (Interruptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER : Shri Anand Maurya, please take your seat.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Shri Anand Maurya, please take your seat.
(interruptions) [Translation] (Interruptions)
[Translation] SHRI VIJAY GOEL : Mr. Speaker, Sir, this is not the way. If you keep on giving them a chance, it will be unfair. A chance should be given to the members from our side as well. A large number of muslim brethren are living in my constituency. I would like to convey their sentiments to the House. Please aiso give me time to speak (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Shri Goel, please sit down. This is not the way.
(Interruptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER : Shri Goel, please take your seat. (interruptions) SHRI VIJAY GOEL : You have no face to oppose because you have been reduced from 100 members to 2...(Interruptions) SHRI RAM VILAS PASWAN : Mr. Speaker, Sir, there are national interests, political interests as wellas personal interests. If it is a question of national interests, we are ready to lend our support in each and every way, however, if political or personal interests are floated and termed as national interests, we'll oppose it at every level, be it the issue of nuclear tests or the construction of Ram temple. We would iike to submit that all this is being done keeping in view the political interests. Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would request respected Minister of Home Affairs to make it clear to the countrymen as to what is proposed to be done and whether you'll accept the verdict of the court or not. We have heard such statements many times that they are not afraid of impeachment by the court, rather they fear the wrath of God. If you had read it properly, such a statement would not have been made. Would you follow the rule of law or the construction of temple is your rule of iaw? This House is the supreme body. Hon'ble Minister of Home Affairs should kindly make it clear in the House as to whether a conspiracy is going on to construct the Rama temple and it is being constructed elsewhere and it is proposed to make and announcement in this regard during elections? SHRl MOHAMMAD ALI ASHRAF FATMI (DmH-BHANGA) : Mr. Speaker. Sir. I rise to speak in support of the issue raised by Shri Rajesh Pilot here. The Rashtriya Janata Dal is of the view that in the country ...(interruptions) SHRI RAJVEER SINGH (AONLA) : Which Janata Dal?.... (Interruptions)
SHRl MOHAMMAD ALI ASHRAF FATM! : Rashtriya Janata Dal, i.e. the Janata Dal formed by Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav whose mention makes you nervous. You are unnerved even at the mention of this name... (Interruptions) Please listen to me .... (interruptions) Mr. Speaker, Sir, I remember that this point was discussed in this House a number of times. Shri Ata! stood up to say that he expresses his regret for what has happened in Ayodhaya. Shri Atal said so and he is the Prime Minister today. However you might recall that thousands of people have been killed in the country over this controversy. There was a time when country was burning. This issue is being raised again today and that is why mention is being made of hidden agenda. Different components and concretes are being precast in different cities. Their intention is to build the temple overnight by collecting all the elements in the name of a yagna or on any other pretext. My party feels that something wrong is being done. I would like to know from Shri Advani, the Minister of Home Affairs as to whether any plan has been chalked out to expose this conspiracy and to seize the pre-cast concrete and other pre-components, so that the atmosphere of tension and fear arising in this country can be removed. If this is not done, we have to come out on the streets and RJD which is my party....(interruptions) Why not?
What is your problem? (Interruptions) They should honour the order of the court and the ruling given by. the Parliament.
DR. SHAFIQUR RAHMAN BARQ (MORADABAD) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would also like to speak.... (Interruptions)Please give me the time to speak... (Interruptions) I would like to speak on behalf of the Samajwadi Party.,.. (Interruptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER : Mr. Home Minister, would you like to say something?
(Interruptions)
[Translation] DR. SHAFIQUR RAHMAN BARQ : Mr. Speaker, Sir, this issue is related to us. I am the convener of Babri Masjid .... (Interruptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seat. (Interruptions)
SHRI A. C. JOS (MUKUNDAPURAM) : Sir, Shri Banatwalla wants to say something.... (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seat.
(Interruptions)
[Translation] DR. SHAFIQUR RAHAMAN BARQ : Mr. Speaker, Sir, this issue is related to Babri Masjid. Three and half crore Muslims live in this country.... (Interruptions)Injustice is being done to ths Muslims. This is against the taw.... (interruptions) The issue raised by Shri Rajesh Pilot .... (Interruptions)An attempt has been made to construct a Ram Temple there, which is against the law.... (Interruptions) The country connot be run in the name of a particular faith.... (interruptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seat. The hon. Home Minister is on his legs. Please take your seat. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Please understand that this is not a debate. Please take your seat.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Dr. Shaifqur Rahman Barq, please take your seat. Please understand that this is not a debate. (Interruptions) MR, SPEAKER : Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)» [Translation] SHRI VIJAY GOEL : Mr. Speaker, Sir, this should not go on record...(Interruptions)
[English] MR. SPRAKER : Nothing will go on record. (Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER : Dr. Shafiqur Rahman Barq, please take your seat. This is not good.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Now, the hon, Home Minister will make a statement on this.
(Interruptions) [Translation] SHRI LARANG SAI (SARGUJA) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we should also be given an opportunity to speak .... (Interruptions) This should not be one sided .... (Interruptions) We should also be given an opportunity to speak....(Interruptions) [English,] MR. SPEAKER : This is not a debate. Please understand that this is not a debate. Please take your seat. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : This is not a debate.
(Interruptions) . . MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seat. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Nothing wil go on record except the speech of the Home Minister.
(interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER : Shri Banatwalla, please take your seat. . : . (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Shri Banatwalia, this is not a debate. (interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Hon. Members, please take your seals. Please sit down. (interruptions) . MR. SPEAKER : You please sit down. (interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Shri Banatwalla, this is too much. Please take your seat. This is not a debate. Except the hon. Home Minister's speech, nothing will go on record. (interruptions)"
MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seat. Order please.
(Interruptions) [Translation] DR. SHAFIQUR RAHMAN BARQ : Mr. Speaker, Sir, since we are not being heard, the Members of Samajwadi Party are walking out of the House (Interruptions) 12.26 hrs. (Dr. Shafiqur Rahman Barq and some other hon. Members then left the House.) [English] MR. SPEAKER : Shri Banatwalla, please take your seat. Please hear me first. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Nothing will go on record except the speech of the Home Minister. (Interruptions)* MR. SPEAKER : Shri Banatwalla, please take your seat. I am requesting you to please take your seat. * Not Recorded.
* Not Recorded.
MR. SPEAKER : \ am requesting you to please take your seat. You are a senior Member. Please understand the procedure also, please take your seat. (interruptions) THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS ( SHRI L.K. ADVANI ) : Shri Banatwalla, I would take notice of your feelings also. I can assure you. I can understand the concern expressed by certain hon. Members of the Opposition about the site in Ayodhya, which has been a matter of debate all over the country as to what should happen there and what should not happen there. For the last six years, there has been scrupulous adherence to the Court's direction that the sfafus quo there should be maintained. I can assure this House that so far as this Government is concerned, it is scrupulously watching the situation to ensure that the Court's orders in this regard are main tained. There will be no negligence (interruptions) SHRI RAJESH PILOT (DAUSA) : This is no answer. ....(Interruptions) It is no answer....(interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Next is submission. Shri Hannan Mollah, please.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Please understand that he has already replied. Shri Rajesh Pilot, he has already replied. (interruptions) SHRt RAJESH PILOT (DAUSA) : Let me ask aquestion... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Please take to your seat. (interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Shri Ramachandran, please take your seat.
(Interruptions)
[Translation] SHRI L.K..ADVANI : Mr. Speaker, Sir, the hon. Members are aware of the fact that Ayodhya issue was mentioned in the election-manifesto of the Bhartiya Janata Party. After the formation of this Government, a national agenda was prepared and after much consideration, the issue of Ayodhya was to included in it. SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : It is in the hidden agenda.
[English] MR. SPEAKER : Let him complete. Let him complete.
[Translation] ' ' -
SHRI L.K. ADVANI : The hidden agenda which went unnoticed by you was the point of nuclear deference which was there in the election—manifesto of BJP and was included in the national agenda. You did not pay any attention towards that. I would have accepted if any one had mentioned about it at that time. However, I would repeat that so far as this government is concerned, it will work according to the national agenda only.... (Interruptions) SHRI PRABHU DAYAL KATHERIA (FEROZABAD): Everyone has expressed his views in the House, so what is there for objection? What has been printed in the magazine is not important, they keep on printing such things...(Interruptions) SHRI P. SHIV SHANKAR (TENALl) : Mr. Speaker, Sir, we prajse the statement made by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, but the thing is that we have asked about the preparations being made, as has been reported in this magazine and it has been clearly stated by Shri Indrajit here that [English] they are going ahead with the construction of the Ram Temple.
MR. SPEAKER : Hon. Members, please take your [Translation] SHR! P. SHIV SHANKER : Alongwith this, Mahantji is also saying that they have no concern with BJP and they will construct the temple... (Interruptions)I would like to ask from the Minister of Home Affairs as to whether he is going to take any action against these activities or be a silent spectator? I have only this much to ask. [English] SHRI RAJESH PILOT (DAUSA) : Let me please say one sentence.
[Translation] Hon. Minister of Home Affairs, Shri Advani may please excuse me, but why we are concerned ? You were here on 3rd of December. ! was the then commu nication Minister and I had told something. I had told that I am coming from Lucknow and the mosque will be demolished. Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee and you both were sitting here and none uttered a word...(Interruptions)So, I would tike to ask from you that being the Minister of Home Affairs, could you promise that till the decision of the court, you will not let the temple to be constructed (Interruptions) SHRi MOHAMMAD ALI ASHRAF FATMI (DAR-BHANGA) : Shri Advani, I would tike to ask one thing.... (Interruptions) SHRt VIJAY GOEL (CHANDNI CHOWK): How can you allow them again and again? I am not going to sit. How can you allow them, why I am not called, they are speaking repeatedly. The Minister of Home Affairs has given his reply.... (Interruptions) SHRI L.K. ADVANI : I have no objection in having a' full discussion on this issue, but it is a different matter if some people are interested in creating tension in the country and thereby raising their vote bank yet again (Interruptions) [English] MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seat. Please take your seat. Please take your seat. (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Nothing will go on record. (Interruptions)"
SHRI L.K. ADVANI : This kind of attitude will not be tolerated. ...(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : He is going to answer. He is answering.
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Shri P. Shiv Shanker, please ask your Members to sit down. The hon. Home Minister is going to reply. (Interruptions)
* Not Recorded MR. SPEAKER : The hon. Minister of Home Affairs is going to speak. .-■,-■.. (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARiA (BANKURA) : It isunbecoming of the hon. Home Minister...(Interruptions) SHRI MULLAPALLY RAMACHANDRAN (CANN-ANORE) : We cannot go by the assurances given by the hon. Home Minister. Similar assurances were given by him in the past also. ...(Interruptions) SHRI L.K. ADVANI : As part of the Government and as incharge of the Ministry of Home Affairs, I can assure the House that this Government will see to it that no court orders are flouted by anyone...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Except the speech of Shri Hannan Mollah nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)
SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER (TENALI): As a protest against the unsatisfactory reply given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, we are walking out. (interruptions) 12.38 hrs. (Shri P. Shiv Shanker and some other hon. Members then left the House.) 12.39 hrs. (At this stage, Dr. Shafiqur Rahman and Shri Shailendra Kumar came and stood near the table) 12.39% hrs. (At this stage, Dr. Shafiqur Rahman and Shri Shaiiendra Kumar went back to their seats) MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seat.
[Translation] SHRI MOHAMMAD AL! ASHRAF FATMI : Mr. Speaker, Sir, my party RJD is staging walk-out from the House, as our views are not being heard in the House. 12.40 hrs. (Shri Mohammad All Ashraf Fatmi and some other hon. Members then, left the House) MR. SPEAKER : Prof. Prem Singh Chandumajra...
(Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Except the submissions for the next week business, nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions) * SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR) : Sir, we are also walking out in protest...(Interruptions) 12.41 hrs. (At this stage, Snri Somnath Chatterjee and some other hon. Members left the House.) SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA fPONNAN!} : Sir, since the Home Minister has made a misleading statement, the Muslim League also walks out in protest. 12.42 hrs. (At this stage, Shri G.M. Banatwaila left the House.) MR. SPEAKER : Shrimati Geeta Mukherjee. What is this that you are going and coming back.
(Interruptions)