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Discussion Regarding Recent Stamp Paper Scam, Raised By Shri Kirit Somaiya. on 19 December, 2003

१२.४२ hrs. DISCUSSION UNDER RULE 193 RECENT STAMP PAPER SCAM Title : Discussion regarding recent Stamp paper scam, raised by Shri Kirit Somaiya.

श्री किरीट सोमैया (मुम्बई उत्तर पूर्व) : माननीयअध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं आपको धन्यवाद देना चाहता हूँ कि न सिर्फ महाराष्ट्र या कर्नाटक, बल्कि पूरे देश का ध्यान आकर्षित करने वाली इस चर्चा को सदन में उपस्थित करने का आपने हमें मौका दिया।

माननीय अध्यक्ष जी, ३००, ३००० या ३००००, किसी को पता नहीं है। सिर्फ दो व्यक्ति जानते हैं कि यह ३०० है, ३००० है या ३०००० है। एक तेलगी जानता है और दूसरा ऊपर वाला जानता है कि यह जो स्कैम है, यह कितने हजार करोड़ रुपये का है।

MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Shipping Minister, there should be no discussion in the House because I advise the Members to meet you in your Chamber.

(Interruptions)श्री किरीट सोमैया: आज पूरा देश इस बात से चिन्तित है कि इतने हजारों करोड़ रुपेय का स्टैम्प पेपर का स्कैम होने के पश्चात आगे हम क्या करेंगे। देश यह जानना चाहता है कि यह कैसे हुआ, कब हुआ, क्यों हुआ। सारा देश यह भी जानना चाहता है कि यह किसने किया, किसके सहारे किया, किसके कहने पर किया।

माननीय अध्यक्ष जी, आप भी मुम्बई के हैं और मैं भी मुम्बई का हूँ। मुम्बई में हम कभी-कभी चौपाटी घूमने जाते हैं और चौपाटी आप में से भी काफी लोग गए होंगे। मुम्बई की चौपाटी बड़ी प्रसिद्ध है। वहां भेल-पूरी वाला होता है, पानी पूरी वाला होता है। वहां से कोई जाता है तो वह कहता है कि आइए साहब, भेल पूरी खाइए, पानी पूरी खाइए। वह अपना धंधा करता है और ग्राहकों को आकर्षित करना चाहता है। ३२ हजार करोड़ रुपये के स्टैम्प पेर बेचे गए। आज भी कितने हजार करोड़ रुपये के फर्जी स्टैम्प पेपर मार्केट में है, यह पता नहीं। क्या यह सिर्फ तेलगी ने अकेले किया? क्या वह चौपाटी पर खड़ा था या दिल्ली के कनाट प्लेस में खड़ा था या नई दिल्ली रेलवे स्टेशन पर ख़ड़ा था या कोलकाता में खड़ा था या आंध्रा प्रदेश के हैदराबाद में खड़ा था?

महोदय, क्या वह पंजाब में खड़ा था ?तेलगी के स्टाम्प पेपर हर जगह पाए गए। क्या तेलगी अकेला बेचता था कि १०० रुपए का स्टाम्प पेपर ५० रुपए में ले लो या १००० रुपए का स्टाम्प पेपर ५०० रुपए में ले लो। यह असली माल है। कोई पूछेगा नहीं, कोई चिन्ता मत करो, पुलिस मेरे साथ है, ले लो, ले लो।

I am surprised and I am shocked at the way in which the Telgi stamp paper scam had been dealt with by various authorities.

अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैंने महाराष्ट्र सरकार से १५ बार विनती की कि कम से कम पहले यह तो ढूंढो कि कितने करोड़ का लॉस हुआ है, क्रमिनल आस्पैक्ट बाद में देखेंगे। The country is asking you and demanding from you as to how has it happened.हमारे यहां कुछ दिनों से देश को डिस-स्टैबिलाइज करने का जो षडयंत्र चल रहा है, यह कहीं उसका हिस्सा तो नहीं है ? आपने सदन में अनेक बार प्रश्न भी पूछने की अनुमति दी जिसमें अनेक बार पूछा गया है कि देश में फेक करेंसी सर्कुलेशन में आ रही है, वह कहां से आ रही है। इस बारे में भी अनेक बार चर्चा हुई है कि यह बार्डर क्रास कर के हिन्दुस्तान में आती है और आ रही है। अनेक वर्षों से इस देश के आर्थिक सैक्टर में, इंडस्टि्रयल सैक्टर में, बिजनैस मार्केट में, इस बात की चिन्ता है कि हम देश में एक क्रास बार्डर टैररिज्म भुगत रहे हैं, लेकिन एक दूसरा टैररिज्म हिन्दुस्तान में आने का प्रयत्न कर रहा है और वह है इकनौमिक टैररिज्म। इस देश की आर्थिक व्यवस्था को डांवाडोल करने, डी-स्टेबिलाइज करने का प्रयत्न हो रहा है। क्या यह तेलगी स्टाम्प कांड, उसका अंग तो नहीं है ? यदि ऐसा होगा, तो हमारे देश के आम आदमी का, देश की अर्थव्यवस्था के ऊपर से विश्वास उठ जाएगा। छोटे शहरों में, गांवों में लोग ५,१०, ५० और १०० रुपए के नोट को कांपते हाथों से लेकर, उसे चार-चार बार देखेंगे कि यह असली है या नकली। जो लोग एग्रीमेंट कराने जा रहे हैं और स्टाम्प पेपर खरीदेंगे, वे सोचेंगे कि स्टाम्प पेपर असली हैं या नकली। देश की करैंसी और अर्थव्यवस्था पर यह कुठाराघात है।

अध्यक्ष महोदय, अनेक बार, यहां चिन्ता प्रकट की गई है कि इस प्रकार से प्लांड षडयंत्र इस देश में चल रहा है जिसके अन्तर्गत कभी फेक करेंसी, कभी फेक स्टाम्प पेपर, कभी कैपीटल मार्केट में घोटालों का नंबर लगा। इस प्रकार से अनेकों बार देश को संकट में डालने का प्रयास किया जाता रहा है। मैं आपके माध्यम से देश की आम जनता की चिन्ता को माननीय मंत्री महोदय तक पहुंचाना और व्य़क्त करना चाहता हूं। इसे जो पोलटिकल एंगल से देखना चाहते हैं, वे देखें, लेकिन मैं आपके माध्यम से कहना चाहता हूं कि इसे आर्थिक एंगल से भी देखें और इसे गंभीरता से लें। जो भी मंत्री, जो भी पालीटशियन, इसमें इन्वाल्व हों, उनको सजा दो, उन्हें मत छोड़ो क्योंकि यह इतना सीमित मामला नहीं है। They have used. आप जानते हैं कि तेलगी के बारे में जब इंटरैक्शन हुआ, मुम्बई हाईकोर्ट में स्पेशल इनवैस्टीगेशन टीम ने रिपोर्ट सब्मिट की,It is mentioned somewhere that there is a paragraph …( व्यवधान)

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह (वैशाली): अध्यक्ष महोदय, तेलगी ने जो स्टाम्प बनाए, वह भक्ट्टा मशीन, यशवन्त सिन्हा जी के समय में तेलगी के हाथ बेची गई। यह भेद भी तो खोलिए। इस भेद को आप नहीं खोल रहे हैं। यह विषय हमें मूव करना था, लेकिन यह उनके द्वारा मूव किया गया है। तेलगी के पास श्री यशवन्त सिन्हा जी के समय में मशीन गई। मशीन और रोशनाई कहां से आई, किस मंत्री की चिट्ठी पर मशीन किसे बेची गई, यह भेद भी तो सदन में खोलिए। सदन को गुमराह मत कीजिए। वह असली भेद है, जो आप खोल नहीं रहे हैं। …( व्यवधान)

श्री किरीट सोमैया: माननीय अध्यक्ष महोदय, कभी मुझे अपने आप पर दया आती है कि कहां तो यह ३२ हजार करोड़ रुपए का स्कैम और कहां हम इतने छोटे लैवल पर बात करते हैं कि मशीन कहां से आई, स्याही कहां से आई और मशीन कब बेची गई। मैंने कहा कि बिना नैट वर्क के यह नहीं हो सकता था। …( व्यवधान)

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY (KHAMMAM): Sir, India is buying bank note papers at 7,000 dollars per tonne whereas it is available in many parts of the world at 5,000 dollars per tonne. I want the hon. Minister to reply to this also. … (Interruptions)

श्री किरीट सोमैया: यहां लिखा गया है कि अब्दुल करीम के सम्बन्ध सीमी के एक एक्टीविस्ट्स से हैं। who is the Calcutta-based operator, Mr. Rasheed. He is the area operator of West Bengal and Telgi organised finances for him.

माननीय अध्यक्ष महोदय, यह सिलसिला सिर्फ यहीं नहीं रुकता है, यह भी कहा गया है, कहीं पर इस प्रकार की रिपोर्ट भी है। मैं एक दूसरा प्रश्न पूछना चाहता हूं कि कोई कहता है कि १० हजार करोड़ रुपए का मामला है, कोई कहता है कि २० हजार करोड़ रुपए का मामला है और कोई कहता है कि यह ३० हजार करोड़ रुपए का मामला है और यह देश में दो साल, तीन साल या चार साल से चल रहा होगा।

इतना पैसा यदि किसी एक व्यक्ति के पास आता है, Where did the money go if he was operating single-handedly?यह पैसा कहां गया, क्या हमारी यह ढूंढने की जिम्मेदारी नहीं है? I would request both the Central Government and the State Government to join hands; come together and investigate from this angle also. We should know whether it was the Mumbai Police, the SIT, the Karnataka Police or the CBI that was involved in this. (Interruptions)३०,००० करोड़ रुपए कहां गए, यह पैसा किस के हाथ में गया, किस प्रकार से गया, कहां गया और इसका उपयोग कहां हुआ?

SHRI R.L. JALAPPA (CHIKABALLAPUR): Sir, I need one minute to speak here.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Kirit Somaiya, are you yielding?

SHRI R.L. JALAPPA : Shri Somaiya, please give me one minute. Sir, a letter was written to the Finance Minister by the Chief Minister of Karnataka as back as 12 July 2002. Hitherto, no action was taken (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: The Deputy Leader of the party will mention all these things later when he speaks.

श्री किरीट सोमैया: अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं पुन: आपके द्वारा विपक्ष के नेतागण और यहां जो माननीय सदस्य बैठे हुए हैं, उन्हें बताना चाहता हूं कि आज पूरा देश हमारी तरफ देख रहा है। देश को लग रहा है कि यहां एक ऊंचाई पर चर्चा होगी। मैंने कहा कि कोई पोलटिशयंस, ब्यूरोक्रेट, पुलिस या हमसे कोई गलती हुई हो तो हमें सजा दें।

महोदय, मैं इसलिए इस तरफ आपका ध्यान आकर्षित करना चाहता हूं कि यह ६०,००० करोड़ रुपए जो जेनरेट होते हैं, It is such a big amount.यह पैसा कहां गया? ( व्यवधान)

MR. SPEAKER: He has said that the amount was Rs. 60,000 crore.

श्री किरीट सोमैया: अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं कहीं एक जगह पढ़ रहा था कि क्या यह पैसा फिल्मों में लगाया गया, सिमी की एक्टीविटीज़ में लगाया गया या रिअल एस्टेट परचेज करने के लिए लगाया गया? यह भी मेंशन हुआ है कि यह पैसा हवाला से विदेश भेजा गया।I am not sure about it, but we will have to think about it. यह पैसा अगर ब्लेक में जेनरेट हुआ है, because this money has not been generated officiallyतो यह ब्लेक का पैसा किस के हाथ में जाएगा, इस पैसे का उपयोग कहां हो सकता है और किस प्रकार से हो सकता है? मैं जब अखबार में पढ़ता था या टीवी पर देखता था तो मुझे दर्द होता था, तेलगी को एचआईवी एड्स हुआ पाया गया और उसके आरोप पुलिस के ऊपर हो रहे हैं। मैं किसी का नाम नहीं लेना चाहता हूं, लेकिन तेलगी के एडवोकेट या किसी ने ऐसा आरोप लगाया है। टीवी पर आया कि तेलगी पर्टिकुलर पुलिस स्टेशन के लॉक-अप में था। वहां पुलिस ने उसे एचआईवी इंजेक्शन इंजेक्ट किया, It means that we are making the villain a hero.

और फिर मानवीय हत्या की बात चल जाती है। उसके बाद दो-चार बातें आए-दिन छपती रहती हैं। फिर हम बोलते हैं कि क्या हुआ?पुलिस अधिकारी और उस आथोरिटी से जवाब मांगते हैं तो पांच दिन के बाद जवाब आ जाता है कि जिस दिन उसे पकड़ा था, उसकी मेडीकल जांच हुई थी, that he was having HIV even before he was arrested.

महोदय, मैं आपका ध्यान इस तरफ इसलिए आकर्षित करना चाहता हूं कि हम इस विषय को इतना नीचे न लाएं। यह पैसा कहां गया, यह ढूंढना पड़ेगा। मैं दिल्ली का एक उदाहरण दे रहा था। मैंने कहीं पढा था कि दिल्ली शहर में पांच फेक स्टेंप पेपर के संबंध में केसेस रजिस्टर हुए और आठ बैंक अकाउंट पाए गए। With regard to this particular account, Rs. 2 crore were withdrawn at a single time. दिल्ली में ही नहीं, मैंने जब पूरी तरह जानने का प्रयत्न किया तो मुझे पता चला कि आंध्रा प्रदेश में छ: -सात केस, कोलकाता, मध्य प्रदेश, throughout the country, in 17 States, such cases were registered.

महोदय, मैं वित्त मंत्री जी और सरकार से प्रार्थना करूंगा कि सबसे पहले एक काम यह करना चाहिए और देश को पता चलना चाहिए कि टोटल फेक स्टेंप पेपर स्केम के मामले में देश भर में कितने केसेस कहां रजिस्टर हुए और कितने केसेस पाए गए? so that we will be able to know and understand it. My point is that, this incident has happened in several States. Hence, we cannot blame a particular person or a particular political party for it. अगर इतनी जगहों पर फेक स्टेंप पेपर केस रजिस्टर हुए हैं तो इसका अर्थ यह होता है कि यह मामला बहुत फैला हुआ है, then what would be their marketing network. I cannot even imagine that. अगर सरकार को भी व्यवस्था निर्मित करनी है, अपने आफशियल लीगल स्टेंप पेपर बेचने हैं तो भी कितना बड़ा नेटवर्क तैयार करना पड़ता है और यह व्यक्ति दो नम्बर के स्टेंप पेपर बेचता रहा है, ४०,००० करोड़ रुपए या ६०,००० करोड़ रुपए कमाता है, मैं इसकी गंभीरता की तरफ आपका ध्यान आकर्षित करना चाहूंगा ।मैं ध्यान आकर्षित करना चाहूंगा और सरकार से भी प्रार्थना करना चाहूंगा कि It seems that many of the investigative agencies are concentrating on the persons who helped or helping or tried to help Telgi. Yes, it has to be done. लेकिन साथ में जिसने इतना बड़ा नेटवर्क बनाया, जो बेनीफशियरी है, इसके ऊपर भी हमें इन्वेस्िंटग एजेंसी को कहना पड़ेगा। हां, इन्वेस्िंटग एजेंसी ऑटोनोमस होनी चाहिए,They have the authority. After all, the legislature as also the common people have a duty कि आप इन्वेस्टीगेशन कर रहे हो तो इस साइड में भी इन्वेस्टीगेशन करो कि यह जो नेटवर्क चल रहा था, उसमें कौन-कौन इन्वोल्व्ड थे। मैं वापस आना चाहता हूं, मैं महाराष्ट्र, कर्नाटक, आन्ध्रा प्रदेश और गुजरात की, इस प्रकार की बात में नहीं जाना चाहता कि किसी पर्टिकुलर स्टेट में क्या हुआ, लेकिन जब मैंने अरेस्टेड पीपल्स की लिस्ट देखी तो Most of them or 95 per cent of them were helping Telgi. उस कारण से वे पकड़े गये। लेकिन इतना बड़ा नेक्सस था तो उसके जो पाट्र्स थे, उनको कोई टच करेगा कि नहीं, Actually, we should have concentrated more on that. Simultaneously, we should concentrate more to stop further revenue loss. रेवेन्यू लॉस कितना हुआ, यह एक बात है। लेकिन साथ में दूसरी बात यह भी है कि फरदर रेनेव्यू लॉस कैसे रोका जाये। मैं किसी बड़े अधिकारी के साथ था, He is an authority. जब उस बड़े अधिकारी के साथ मैं चर्चा करने गया तो उन्होंने मुझसे कहा, मि. किरीट सोमैया, तुम्हारा खत मुझे दो दिन पहले मिला, "I had asked four of my colleagues to go into the details." फिर उन्होंने मुझे एक किस्सा सुनाया, मुझे वह बहुत किस्सा लगा।( व्यवधान)

MR. SPEAKER: How much time you would take because at one o’clock, there is a Business Advisory Committee meeting and most of the leaders are here.

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : Sir, I need another 15 minutes time. This is a very important subject and I want to highlight different angles of this issue.

MR. SPEAKER: Please go ahead.

श्री किरीट सोमैया: That particular officer told me, मि. किरीट सोमैया, तुम्हारे कहने के बाद मैं जरा डिटेल में गया,He named one very good developed country. उन्होंने कहा कि उस डवलप्ड कंट्री की जो करंसी थी, ऐसा पाया गया, जब उनकी इंटेलीजेंस एजेंसी के ध्यान में आया कि हांगकांग और सिंगापुर या वहीं कहीं पर उसका इन्फ्लो बहुत बड़ गया है, That Intelligence Team was sent to those countries. फिर वहां जाने के बाद पता चला कि यह इन्फ्लो ताइवान से आ रहा है। वे ताइवान गये तो उनको पता चला कि ताइवान में पर्टिकुलर देश की करंसी की फोज्र्ड प्रटिंग प्रैस है। उस प्रटिंग प्रैस की जो मशीनरी थी, क्योंकि उस पर्टिकुलर देश की करंसी जापान में छपती थी और वहां की प्रटिंग प्रैस की कुछ मशीनरी ताइवान के जो भी गेंग लीडर्स थे, उन्होंने लेकर इस प्रकार से किया। The other point, which is more important, is that, that Government immediately started "Operation Salvation". I am worried about that. I am not able to understand as to what damage control exercise we have started कि सबसे पहला काम, जहां आग लगती है तो आग किसके कारण लगी, वह किसने लगाई, उसमें क्रमिनल एंगल तो देखना चाहिए, लेकिन हम आपरेशन साल्वेशन स्टार्ट करते हैं कि जो लोग फंस गये हैं, माल रह गया है, जो डाक्यूमेंट्स हैं, पहले उनको निकालने का प्रयत्न करना चाहिए। I would like to appeal to the State as well as the Central Governments that we must concentrate on that also, that is, operation salvation. उसने उस कंट्री का नाम नहीं दिया कि उस कंट्री की जो करंसी थी, Immediately, the Central Bank of that country announced that they were withdrawing the currency of that particular denomination. उसमें क्या होता है कि पर्टिकुलर डिनोमिनेशन की करंसी विथड्रा होती है तो जिसके पास ७००, एक हजार,१० हजार रुपये होंगे तो वह बैंक में जायेगा और चेंज कर लेगा, लेकिन जिसके पास ५० करोड़ रुपये की फोज्र्ड करंसी होगी तो वह नहीं जायेगा।This is the method. So, I would like to appeal. आज भी कितने प्रकार के बोगस स्टाम्प पेपर मार्केट में चल रहे हैं,Nobody knows; we will have to take immediate steps on how it should be stopped and how it should be replaced. Some States have taken some steps, but they need to take more steps.

Finally, I would like to appeal, through you, Sir, that there is a need that the Government should immediately take the initiative, coordinate with the State Governments and they must appoint two groupsकि इसमें रेवेन्यू लॉस कैसे सटाप किये जायें, उसके लिए एक एक्सपट्र्स ग्रुप बैठा दिया जाये, जो ५-१० दिन में जानकारी दे कि हमें क्या स्टैप्स लेने हैं।

13.00 hrs. Another group must go in to the depth as to what corrective measures should be taken. इतना करैक्शन है। यह स्टम्प एक्ट १८९० का है। १८९० का जो स्टम्प एक्ट है, वह आपसोलिट है।

Now, demat, electronic transfer of money, and many such modern methods have come. विदेशों में किस प्रकार से गवर्नमैंट के ट्रांजेक्शन्स हैं, किस प्रकार से रजिस्ट्रेशन प्रौसैस है, इसके बारे में स्टडी करने की जरूरत है। मुझे आनंद होता है कि फाइनेंस मनिस्टर ने बीच में एनाउंसमैंट की थी कि वे डीमेट को लागू करना चाहते हैं। यह भी एक मेथेड हो सकता है कि किस प्रकार से करना चाहिए। स्टेट के साथ कोआर्डिनेट करना पड़ेगा।

अध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं एक बात की ओर आपका ध्यान आकर्षित करना चाहूंगा कि मुम्बई में एक शब्द बहुत प्रसिद्ध हो गया है--तेलगी।

१३.०१ hrs.(Shri P.H. Pandian in the Chair) तेलगी के बदले वहा के लोग बोलते हैं कि तेल और घी यानी तेलगी के कारण कुछ अथॉरिटी आफिसर्स को तेल मिल गया तथा तेलगी और उसकी टीम को घी मिल गया। इसके साथ जो दूसरा वाक्य है, वह बहुत निचली भाषा का है। तेलगी के साथ वालों को तेल मिल गया और तेलगी को घी मिल गया। लेकिन सरकार के नसीब में चूना ही है। कितना रेवन्यू लॉस हुआ, इसके बारे में मुझे एक फिगर मिली है। जिस दिन से कहीं एक पर्टिकुलर गवर्नमैंट ने तेलगी के सामने एक्शन लिया, न्यू करैक्शन स्टार्ट किये, तो एक साल में रेवन्यू बढ़कर ७५० करोड़ रुपये हो गया। इसका मतलब यह है कि फेक पेपर कितने सप्लाई किए होंगे। मुझे पता है, आज लोग मुझे आकर बताते हैं कि उसके एजेंट मार्केटिंग नेटवर्क में थे। तेलगी ५० परसेंट डिस्काउंट में किसी मेजर आपरेटर को देता था तो वे आपरेटर अपने नीचे ४० परसेंट, उसके नीचे ३० परसेंट पर देता था। अल्टीमेटली जो खरीदार था, अगर लम सम हो, यदि आप ५० लाख रुपये का स्टम्प पेपर खरीदोगे तो तुम्हे २० परसेंट डिस्काउंट मिलेगा और यदि १० लाख रुपये का स्टांप पेपर खरीदोगे तो १० परसेंट डिस्काउंट मिलेगा। इसका मतलब आफशियल कमीशन सिर्फ एक परसेंट है। लेकिन कभी लोग सोचते नहीं थे क्योंकि १० परसेंट डिस्काउंट मिलता था, २० परसेंट डिस्काउंट मिलता था। मैं यह भी एक अपील करना चाहूंगा।

Who is the beneficiary? Apart from those who were the masterminds behind this racket, those who have purchased the stamp papers in bulk quantities from this parallel system should also be interrogated. They should be questioned and they should be checked. अगर आपको १०, २०, २५ या ४० परसेंट डिस्काउंट मिलता है तो आपको सोचना नहीं चाहिए कि यह बोगस हो सकता है, फर्जी हो सकता है या चोरी का माल हो सकता है। I would once again appreciate the concern of the Finance Minister. उन्होंने कह दिया कि जो भी स्टम्प पेपर मार्केट में थे, उसके आधार पर जो भी एग्रीमैंट होंगे, वे वैलिड रहेंगे। मैं उनको धन्यवाद देता हूं क्योंकि आज जो व्यक्ति मुम्बई में बैठा है या दिल्ली में बैठा है, उस बेचारे ने यदि साढ़े चार लाख रुपये का लोन लेकर अपना घर खरीदा है, फ्लैट खरीदा है तो उसको यह चिंता है कि कहीं वह एग्रीमैंट फर्जी हुआ तो मेरा क्या होगा ?

मैं आदरणीय मंत्री जी से प्रार्थना करना चाहता हूं कि यदि वे यह बात पुन: स्पष्ट करेंगे तो हिन्दुस्तान के आम आदमी को इससे काफी राहत मिलेगी। मैं यह भी पूछना चाहता हूं कि वेरीयस स्टेट गवर्नमैंट ने क्या-क्या इनीशियेटिव लिये हैं तथा उनसे आपको क्या जानकारी आयी है ? अगर उसमें पुलिस इन्वाल्व है तो आप उसकी भी जानकारी दें। अगर आपके पास यह जानकारी आयी है कि इसमें कोई मनिस्टर इन्वाल्व है तब उस पर भी कार्रवाई होनी चाहिए चाहे वह मनिस्टर गुजरात का हो या कर्नाटक का हो। इसकी जानकारी भी सदन के सामने आनी चाहिए।

आप कर्नाटक की बात कर रहे थे। मैं इस विषय में जाना नहीं चाहता था लेकिन हमें यह भी देखना होगा कि इनोसेंट आदमी को कर्नाटक ही नहीं, In another State, a Government official made a statement to the effect that any agreement signed on such a fake stamp paper would not be treated as valid. उसके कारण लोगों में चिंता है। मैं आपके द्वारा वित्त मंत्री जी से यह भी प्रार्थना करना चाहूंगा कि यह पैसा बड़े-बड़े सैक्टर में गया है, क्या वह लेपटॉप परचेजेज में गया है या फिल्म लाइन में गया है ? कितने बोगस बैंक एकाउंट पाये गये। मैं आपके द्वारा यह भी विनती करना चाहूंगा कि इसका जो क्रमिनल एंगल है, उनसे सविल और रेवन्यू लॉस के बारे में सी.ए.जी. की मदद लेनी चाहिए, एकाउंटेंट जनरल की मदद लेनी चाहिए।

हमें राज्य सरकारों के रिवैन्यू डिपार्टमैंट से कहना चाहिए कि आप गत साल के रिवैन्यू जनरेशन की स्टडी कीजिए। अगर १९९१, १९९२ या १९९४ में आपका इतना रिवैन्यू था,particularly through this type of instrument, then what is your normal growth? The growth figure must be added and seen whether it is matching with the revenue receipt through the sale of this type of stamp paper.मैं आपको बताना चाहूंगा कि कुछ राज्यों के बारे में मुझे जानकारी मिली है कि there is a horrible difference. There is a mismatch. नासिकसिक्युरिटी प्रैस से उस पर्टीकुलर राज्य सरकार ने अगर २०० करोड़ रुपये के स्टैम्प पेपर परचेज किए जबकि उनका ऐग्रीमैंट रजिस्ट्रेशन १२०० करोड़ रुपये का हुआ था। There is a mismatch of thousands of crores of rupees. मैं रजिस्ट्रेशन और स्टैम्प पेपर को थोड़ा ईज़ी लैंग्वेज में कहना चाहूंगा।Supposing, I am purchasing a residential flat in Mumbai then, I will have to purchase worth Rs. 20,000 stamp paper from the Stamp Paper Collectorate or through his agent. Then, I will have to go to the Registrar to get my agreement registered with him.

अगर मेरा ४-५ लाख रुपये का फ्लैट है, उसके ऊपर अगर ५ प्रतिशत स्टैम्प डयूटी लगती है तोI will have to go to SPC या उसके एजैंट के थ्रू सम्पर्क करूं। अगर पांच लाख रुपये के ऊपर २५ हजार रुपये के स्टैम्प पेपर दूंगा तभी वे रजिस्टर करेंगे। हमें एक ही काम करना चाहिए किselect five cities or 10 cities throughout the country. कितने रियल ऐस्टेट के ट्रांज़ैक्शन्स रजिस्टर्ड हुए हैं और उसकी तुलना में उस पर्टीकुलर डीनौमीनेशन के स्टैम्प पेपर, स्टैम्प ऑफिस में उतनी सेल हुई है या नहीं।It is easy to check. So, I would submit that the AG and CAG may be requested कि वे दस साल का रिवैन्यू जनरेशन निकालें। उसमें कितना शार्टफाल हुआ because nobody at present knows what is the revenue loss.

One more thing I would like to make. Yes, all the investigative agencies have concentrated -- as I told you -- with the people who are helping and who are in the Government system. इसके साथ ही क्या कुछ बिजनेस पीपल थे, कुछ इंडस्ट्री वाले थे, यह भी जानना पड़ेगा। मैं किसी का नाम नहीं लेना चाहता लेकिन इस बात की ओर ध्यान आकर्षित करना चाहूंगा कि हमें यह भी पता चला है कि इसमें बड़े-बड़े, बहुत बड़े नहीं, बिजनेस पीपल इन्वॉल्व थे। उनका टोटल ऐसैट ३-४ साल में सौ टाइम्स बढ़ गया। जब उनके पास इतना पैसा आ गया then there is a need to check.

I would like to bring to your kind notice another angle.आज लोगों का पुलिस व्यवस्था से विश्वास हट गया है। Mumbai was known as the Scotland Yard of the country.

आज मुम्बई का पुलिस कमिश्नर जेल में है, मुम्बई का ज्वाइंट कमिश्नर जेल में है, महाराष्ट्र के डीजी की इन्क्वारी और इन्वैस्टीगेशन हो रही है। आज अगर वहां के लोकल पुलिस स्टेशन में जाएं, मुलुन्द पुलिस स्टेशन में जाएं या चौपाटी पुलिस स्टेशन में चले जाएं तो लोगों को विश्वास नहीं है कि वहां पुलिस कैसी होगी। पुलिस स्टेशन के अंदर के पुलिस इंस्पैक्टर को यह पता नहीं है कि पास बैठा हुआ सब इंस्पैक्टर कहीं तेलगी मामले में तो नहीं फंसा हुआ है। The whole system has been shattered.हमें इसके लिए भी प्रयत्न करना होगा कि इस व्यवस्था को किस प्रकार सुधारा जाए। मैं यह भी विनती करना चाहूगा कि we will have to be a little bit active. जैसे मैंने कहा, मैंने महाराष्ट्र सरकार को १५ बार विनती की कि आप एजी, सीएजी से बात करें, रिवैन्यू लॉस स्टौप करें. उसके लिए कलैक्टिव एक्शन लें।

But I did not get any response from the Maharastra Government. But I seriously respect hon. Governor of Maharasthra whom I sent the Memorandum. He respect it and responded it. मुझे विश्वास है कि महाराष्ट्र सरकार भी इस प्रकार के स्टैम्प पेपर, It is not confined to the stamp paper and revenue stamp only, now, it has been found out that even the franking machine is forged. फ्रैंकिंग मशीन भी फोज्र्ड है, वह डुप्लीकेट पाई गई। मेरी प्रार्थना है कि हमें इन टोटैलिटी इसके बारे में सोचना पड़ेगा।

मैं एक बार पुन: प्रार्थना करूंगा कि आप डीमैट की बात करें लेकिन डीमैट करते समय, वह भी ओवर बर्डन नहीं हो जाती, उस पर भी विचार करना पड़ेगा।About depositories, I would submit that it is a technical matter. But we have to create two to three different agencies. डीमैट बहुत अच्छा कदम है। उसे करने का प्रयत्न करना चाहिए।NSBL is the only agency.

मैं आपका ध्यान एक और बात के प्रति आकर्षित करना चाहूंगा। मेरे समाने कुछ आंकड़े आए कि कहां-कहां यह स्कैम पहुंचा है। यह कहा गया कि in Maharashtra, it is Rs. 2,000 crore; in Delhi, it is Rs. 214 crore; in Karnataka, it is Rs. 205 crore; and in Andhra Pradesh, it is Rs. 19.70 crore .ऐसे कितने केसेज रजिस्टर्ड हुए हैं?I am talking about the cases registered before 2002. ये वो आंकड़े हैं और इसके पश्चात् पूरी चेन इस प्रकार की शुरू हुई थी। विशाखापट्टनम से लेकर कहां-कहां तक गई है। लेकिन आज हमें यह भी वातावरण बनाना पड़ेगा और यह भी कमिटमेंट देना पड़ेगा कि इस स्कैम के अंदर हम कैसे जाएंगे ? आज हमारे महाराष्ट्र में अगर विपक्ष के नेता को एक पत्र पुलिस ऑफिसर का उपस्थिति करते हैं, कोई श्री कामथ का पत्र उपस्थित करते हैं, उन्होंने उसकी एक कॉपी मेरे पास भेजी और वह कामथ,who has been arrested by the SIT, वह कामथ राज्यपाल को पत्र लिखता है और वह पत्र राज्यपाल तक पहुंचता ही नहीं है। विपक्ष को उसकी कॉपी मिलती है और विपक्ष के नेता उस पत्र की कॉपी राज्यपाल को भेजते हैं। जब राज्यपाल महोदय को पता चलता है कि मेरे नाम से किसी पुलिस ऑफिसर ने तेलगी स्कैम में पत्र लिखा है। आज राज्यपाल महोदय ने उसकी इंक्वायरी और इंवेस्टीगेशन का ऑर्डर दिया है।

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL (LATUR): Sir, I must say that Shri Kirit Somaiya is doing it very well. All the arguments he has advanced are very good and nobody would take exception to those arguments, except the last point. I would ask him, whether he would like to involve Rajyapal in this. If he wants to involve Rajyapal in this, then the Members in the House would be saying anything in favour of or against him.

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : I do not want to bring him in the discussion, but I would request him to see what is the main point here. I will come to the main point now. Who has written the letter and to whom?

आज दूसरा विषय चक्र आरम्भ हो रहा है। Only to that point, I wanted to draw your attention.आज दूसरा विषय चक्र आरम्भ हुआ है। एक आरोपी दूसरे दस लोगों के नाम दे रहा है और फिर हम कहां जाएंगे? उसमें फिर राजनीतिज्ञों का नाम भी आ जाता है। दूसरे पुलिस अधिकारी कहते हैं कि मुझे अरैस्ट किया तो उसको क्यों नहीं किया?उसने इसको मोबाइल पर फोन किया था। उसने उसको इतने पैसे देने के लिए कहा था।I wanted to bring in that point. अगर इसी प्रकार से इंक्वायरी और इंवेस्टीगेशन चलती रहेगी तो कहां से कहां हम पहुंचेंगे और उसके लिए इस इंवेस्टीगेशन को स्ट्रीमलाइन करने के लिए मेरा आग्रह है कि जो केन्द्र सरकार ने सुप्रीम कोर्ट में याचिका या प्रार्थना की है, There is a need of coordinated effort. अगर कहीं कोई कोर्ट करती है, सीबीआई करे, कोई बोलता है कि मत करो। मैं सभी कोट्र्स को सम्मान से देखता हूं लेकिन इंवेस्टीगेटिव और करैक्टिव मैजर्स के लिए इस प्रकार की सूचना आती रहेगी तो सीबीआई को भी इसमें इंवाल्व होना पड़ेगा। I do not mind whether CBI alone does it or the CBI with the help of the State Police does it. It has to be decided by the Government. लेकिन आवश्यकता इस बात की है कि इसमें इन दोनों को इंवॉल्व करना पड़ेगा कि यह किस प्रकार से काम हो रहा है। अगर बॉर्डर में भी यह घोटाला क्रॉस हो रहा है तो इसकी भी जानकारी हमें लेनी पड़ेगी। मैंने जानबूझकर किसी के नाम नहीं लिए। मैं नाम नहीं लूंगा। One particular Partnership Firm was operating from Pondicherry. सात सौ करोड़ रुपया उसके पास अचानक आ गया। This angle would also have to be investigated. इस पत्र में ये सब बातें लिखी हैं। उनकी तरफ भी मैं ध्यान आकृष्ट करना चाहता हूं।

मैंने कुछ और सुझाव किये थे। मैंने सभी सरकारों के पास सुझाव किये थे। इसमें हमें यह भी देखना पड़ेगा कि बड़े-बड़े एजेंट और इंक्लूडिंग जो बड़ी कॉरपोरेट में खरीददारी हुई है, We will have to first ask the Revenue Department. यह देखना पड़ेगा कि बल्क कस्टमर कौन है ? I am not talking about the agent. अगर कोई पर्टिकुलर कंपनी है, अगर उसको महीने में तीन करोड़ के स्टैम्प पेपर्स या एडीसिव स्टैम्प्स लगते हैं तो हमें वहां जाकर देखना पड़ेगा और उसके ऊपर कांसन्ट्रेट करना पड़ेगा। जब हम इंक्वायरी करते हैं तो हमें देखना पड़ेगा कि इस प्रकार के बल्क कस्टमर ने स्टॉम्प कहां से लिये थे ? मुझे ऐसा लग रहा है कि इसमें कुछ ऑफशियल्स ने १०-२० प्रतिशत कमीशन के लालच मेंThey, knowingly or unknowingly, or directly or indirectly became a part of the Telgi marketing network. यह वास्तविकता है। मैं यह कहना चाहूंगा कि एस.आई.टी. के पास जो जानकारी और सूचना है, उस चीज को लोगों के सामने शेयर करना चाहिए। One more thing I would like to bring to your notice. ५-१० सैम्पल केसेज लेने चाहिए और उन सैम्पल पर फुल-फ्लैज्ड कांसंट्रेट करना चाहिए।

उस कॉन्सनट्रेट के आधार परI think we will be able to do something more.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Shri Somaiya, you have taken 35 minutes.

           

SHRI KIRIT SOMAIYA : I will just take two minutes more. I am just concluding now. This is my last point after which I will conclude.ऐसा कहते हैं, let us learn the lesson because our democratic system has faced such scams. But we came together. We learnt the lesson and we tried to correct and strengthen the system. एक अखबार ने बहुत सुन्दर एडिटोरियल लिखा है। He has written: " ‘Good from Bad’. Let us learn the lesson. Let us correct the system. Let us come together".

देश भर में इस पर्टिकुलर स्टाम्प पेपर स्कैम, एडहैसिव स्कैम और फ्रैंकिंग मशीन में जो सिस्टम है, उसमें सुधार लाना होगा। आज एक अब्दुल करीम तेलगी पकड़ा गया है। चाहे उसके पीछे सिमी हो या कोई दूसरा संगठन हो लेकिन देश में इस प्रकार के, in a way an alternative to the currency, अनेक प्रकार के मोड़ हैं, जिन पर हमें ध्यान देना होगा। हम खास तौर पर इस स्टाम्प पेपर स्कैम को रोकेंगे, कोरैक्टिव मैजर्स लेंगे लेकिन इस प्रकार के दूसरे डॉक्यूमैंट्स कहीं शुरु न हो जाएं, यह देखना होगा। वित्त मंत्री और शौरी जी ने मिल कर स्मॉल सेविंग्स और पोस्टल सेविंग्स में वैसा सिस्टम प्रारम्भ किया जो कुछ साल पहले सिक्योरिटी मार्किट में प्रारम्भ किया था। पहले कोई भी डविडैंड या रिफंड आता था तो बीच में चैक चौरी हो जाता था। शेयर ट्रांसफर करके भेजते थे तो वे चोरी हो जाते थे। The Government has started Demat system and electronic transfer system.. आपने पोस्टल सेविंग में भी इसे शुरु किया। मैं इसके लिए आभार प्रकट करता हूं। आपने मुम्बई में पायलट प्रोजैक्ट लॉच किया। नेशनल सेविंग सर्टफिकेट, किसान विकास पत्र में भी इसकी शुरुआत की। So, let us learn a lesson from what has happened. Let us go to good from bad. मुझे विश्वास है कि हम इस प्रकार की नई व्यवस्था निर्माण करेंगे जिनसे ऐसे घोटालों को रोका जा सके। २१वीं सदी में आज हमारे पास इनफर्मेशन टैक्नॉलोजी की एथॉरिटी है। हम इसके द्वारा एक अच्छी व्यवस्था का निर्माण करें। यही प्रार्थना करते हुए आपको धन्यवाद देना चाहता हूं।

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL (LATUR): Sir, I would like to say that Shri Kirit Somaiya has made a balanced speech. I would have also said the same thing and if I sit down saying that I endorse his statement, my speech would be complete. He has spoken responsibly and in a balanced manner. There are a few points on which I should express my views on behalf of this side.

One of the points is, we are all worried that this big scam has taken place in the country. We are of the view that proper investigation should be done, facts should be brought to light and action taken as per law against anybody who is involved in this. It is not necessary to hide the facts. It is not necessary to protect anybody. If the Government takes action against those persons who are responsible for this crime, we all will be very happy. Shri Somaiya has rightly said that when matters of this nature come to the notice of the people, sometimes action is taken in such a fashion that some persons are tried to be implicated and some kind of investigation is started against them. I would say that whether it is a private person, businessman, an industrialist, government servant or a politician, no witch-hunting should be done against him. At the same time, everything should be done to find out who is responsible for this kind of a crime and he should be punished according to the law.

Sir, this is really a very big case and you, as a good lawyer, know that if this case were argued in a court of law, they would have taken not only hours but they would have taken days and even months to fully argue this case. But that is not going to be possible in the House. Within the limited time, we shall have to express our views. Shri Kirit Somaiya has done it. I will try to do it in the same fashion so that other Members also get the opportunity to express their views if they want to.

This scam is spread over the entire country. Now the States in which this scam has spread are: Karnataka, Andhra Pradesh, Maharashtra, Orissa, Haryana, Delhi, West Bengal, Bihar and maybe other States also. It has spread into other States also. States are not involved but it has spread into other States also. So, this is something which is spread over the entire country as such. That is why, we shall have to take care to see that investigation is done in such a fashion that the facts are brought to the notice of the court and the authority which can punish these people.

Generally, in the media, two-three States are mentioned, namely, Karnataka, Maharashtra, and sometimes Andhra Pradesh is also mentioned. Let us find out what has been done in Karnataka. I will give just a very brief information about what has been done in Karnataka and Maharashtra. About other States, I do not have any information and it is not necessary to get the information about all other States also to come to certain correct conclusions.

What was done in Karnataka? This matter came to the notice in 2000 and then the investigation started. Now, the Karnataka State has filed, I am told, ten charge sheets and 54 persons have been arrested. Telgi, whose name is often mentioned happened to come from one of the villages in Karnataka. It is stated that he used to live in Mumbai. When his name surfaced, they tried to arrest him but he absconded. He was arrested in Ajmer, Rajasthan by the Karnataka Police. Now Karnataka Police has travelled throughout the country. It went to Maharashtra, Kolkata, Andhra Pradesh, and many other places and collected the information. They have very valuable information available with them. That information relates to the fake stamps that were sold. That information relates to the national security press. That information relates to the currency notes also. That information relates to the private companies, public companies, and the Government enterprises which had purchased these stamps and used them. That information relates to some of the officers also who are involved in this case. So, the Karnataka Government did all that was necessary and that was possible to find out as to what has happened in this case. The cases have now been filed before the court and the court is looking into them. A Special Team was constituted. That Special Team investigated into the matter. A Special Court has also been constituted. At one stage, they were thinking that the matter should be looked into by the CBI and the Karnataka Government also. But it seems that the CBI is overburdened and it is very difficult for the CBI to go to all the States - and it is not only to all the State capitals but to all the districts and the talukas, where stamps are sold - to collect information. It was not possible for the CBI to go to all the States, districts and the talukas and to many places which have been mentioned in the investigating report. That is why, very rightly probably, at the initial stage, the CBI had said that it was overburdened and it would be very difficult for the CBI to investigate into the matter and the Special Team continued the investigation and it is doing its investigation and probably, they have collected enough information and the matter is before the court and it will be looked into. I need not say anything more than this as far as investigation done by the Karnataka Government is concerned.

What has been done by the Maharashtra Government? The Maharashtra Government started the investigation in 2002, it seems, and they arrested some persons. They have arrested nearly 50 persons. They have collected some money and stamps also. So, investigation was started. The matter was in the High Court of Maharashtra and the High Court of Maharashtra desired that certain important officers should be given the responsibility and so, a Special Team was created, officers were appointed, officers were given the responsibility to investigate into the matter.

Shri Kirit Somaiya is very correct when he says that when allegations are levelled against very important police officers, we become very sorry and people lose faith in the police machinery itself. That is the darker side of the issue. But there is one brighter side of the issue also. It is the police officers themselves who investigated into this matter and proceeded against their own colleagues. This is the brighter side. In all walks of life, there are good and bad people. We cannot support the bad people, but we shall certainly have to support good people. So, the police machinery is facing some criticism levelled by the people in the country. But, at the same time, some police officers have also done their duty in a proper manner and we should appreciate that also. In Maharashtra, the police has done the investigation and the matter was referred to the court. When the matter was before the Maharashtra High Court, the issue again came up whether the matter should be referred to the CBI or not. And it seems that the CBI did say in the court also that the Special Team is doing well and it need not be referred to the CBI. The High Court also came to the conclusion that at that stage, it was not necessary to pass any order against the investigation done by the Special Team in Maharashtra and the Special Team should continue investigating into it. But then some people thought that the matter should be referred to the CBI. The stand of the Maharashtra Government is, if it has to be investigated by the Special Team, then let it be investigated by the Special Team. If it has to be referred to the CBI and if the CBI should be allowed to investigate into it, the Maharashtra Government shall have no difficulty in allowing that to be done.

13.28 hrs. (Mr. Speaker in the Chair) In the court also, they made an application that this matter be referred to the CBI, if it is to be referred to the CBI and it seems that the court itself came to the conclusion that the matter was pending in the Supreme Court. And that is why, unless a decision is given by the Supreme Court, the High Court need not take any decision and the matter need not be referred to the CBI. The final decision given by the Supreme Court would be certainly binding on the High Court and the Government also. So, the stand of the Maharashtra Government is that this matter should be thoroughly investigated into. Private persons or the public persons or the politicians or anybody may be involved into it. It should be thoroughly inquired into.

The stand is that necessary action, as per the law, should be taken. We are not alleging anything against anybody. The Maharashtra Government is not alleging anything against any other Government in any other manner. The other Governments are also not alleging anything against the Maharashtra Government as far as my understanding goes. I have not found anything objectionable said by any other authority in any other Government against the Government of Maharashtra. This is as far as Maharashtra is concerned.

There is one more point which has also to be taken care of. That is the point relating to the National Security Press. I do not know whether the investigation is limited to Telgi, his gang, the police officers to some extent and maybe to some others also. They have also gone to the officers in the National Security Press. Certain investigation has also been done. I think we should look into this aspect also without blaming anybody for that matter. If any officer is doing something wrong in the National Security Press, we cannot hold the entire hierarchy from top to bottom responsible for this. That would be the wrong thing to do. That would really be protecting the person who is really acting criminally. When this happens, attention is deflected from the man who has really committed the crime to a person who may not be really connected with it or remotely connected with it or innocently he might have done certain things. That also should not be alleged. So, the investigation into what happened in the National Security Press should also be done in a responsible manner. At least, we from here, at this stage, on the basis of the information which is available with us, are not alleging anything against anybody who is not directly mentioned in the report of the investigating officer. We would like to take a very responsible stand.

Shri Somaiya has very rightly said that this is something about which we shall have to be very careful. The investigation has to be done very carefully and the culprits have to be booked. But that is not all. Who is doing it, why is he doing it, how much money has been collected by him, how has that money been used, where has that money gone, is it with him, or, is it with any person who is one of his gang, is it with some persons who are connected with the terrorist activities, is it with somebody who has taken this money outside the country, all these aspects have to be very carefully looked into. The importance of this debate lies in that. It lies in what has to be done and how we should deal with this matter. He has certainly made very good suggestions.

Sir, I will seek your permission to read out certain things. They are a little longish but I would seek your permission because they are very thoughtfully brought into existence. If it is possible for the Government of India to look into these matters for investigating the case in a proper manner or for taking any precautionary action or for preventing this kind of a thing occurring again in future, it would be very useful.

What can be done? What can be done is more important than anything else. The investigation will be done by the police. The case will be filed before the court and it will be heard by it. But then, in order to see that this does not recur, we shall have to take some action at the executive level. We should consider that aspect. What can be done?

As far as the investigation is concerned, it is suggested that an effective intelligence /vigilance network comprising officers drawn from the Central and State Police and other agencies is to be established to supervise and monitor the ongoing investigation by various agencies. The State Police is investigating it. The Central Police is there. But there has to be coordination. So, it is suggested that an effective intelligence network comprising officers drawn from the Central and State Police as also other agencies is to be established to supervise and monitor the ongoing investigation by various agencies. Periodical meetings and other methodology are to be established to exchange intelligence and information. This has spread over the entire country. It has not happened in one State. Even in one State also, it has not happened in the capital city of that State.

But it has happened at the taluka places and district places and many other places also. So, the periodical exchange of information should take place. A comprehensive study of the affairs of the India Security Press is also to be undertaken. The study should include the selection of human resources and the type of officers to be employed to carry on the day-to-day operations at all levels. Immediate weeding out of personnel under cloud is desirable. Discipline needs to be enforced. Every aspect of the work in India Security Press should be closely monitored by an independent body consisting of high-ranking bureaucrats and other agencies, such as, the Intelligence Bureau. Creation of Chief Vigilance Officer with adequate infrastructure is also essential for this purpose.

The procedure of procurement and disposal of unserviceable store items in Security Press needs to be streamlined. There should be proper checks and balances in the procurement of raw materials from private agencies by India Security Press and SPP. The raw material procured by the Presses at Nashik, Hyderabad and other places should not be available to those who have fake kinds of stamps. Periodical stock verification and accounting procedures need to be streamlined by computerisation at all levels.

The uniqueness of each security document should be a guarded secret. The unique features should be introduced in all security documents so that it is not possible to imitate or produce duplicated versions.

Experts, such as GEQD in each Forensic Laboratory, should be equipped to examine the suspected or questioned security document and give opinion. Presently, there are no experts other than the ones in the India Security Press set-up. The present experts offer their opinion based on the experience only.

Presently, there appear to be very little points or parameters to distinguish a fake stamp from a genuine stamp. The ambiguity and absence of points of comparison between the questioned and the genuine security document is also not publicised.

Levels of distinguishing marks to help a layman, a field expert and the ultimate expert in the Security Press need to be evolved and put into practice.

Presently, the responsibility of India Security Press with regard to supply of security documents is limited only to manufacture such documents and collect the manufacturing cost. It is the respective State Governments that are affected due to loss of revenue through the sale of fake stamps. The State Governments could evolve alternate methods or substitutes to the security documents manufactured by India Security Press. It may be advisable to do away once and for all the usage of judicial/non-judicial stamps and stamp papers. A computerised version can be thought of in which the serial numbers of the stamp papers entered into a computer system are networked to a central server. This feature should be given wide publicity so that anyone can verify the genuineness by entering the number of the stamp paper.

The cumbersome procedure of payment, endorsement and embossing needs to be simplified. Multiplicity of agencies should be reduced.

The Blocks of Dandy Roll mark this is very important – which is encrypted inside the security document during the manufacturing process, should be treated as a property of the India Security Press and kept in safe custody with facility to take out whenever the security document is required to be printed. A periodical inspection of the blocks is to be ensured to prevent misuse of such blocks. It is necessary to verify as to how many times inspections of these Dandy Roll blocks were inspected by the officials of the India Security Press in the past seven years. It is highly probable that the criminal gang must have gained possession of these blocks and indulged in printing fake stamps.

     

The revenue earnings through the sale of fiscal stamps have never been estimated by the State Governments. Users of fiscal stamps are insurance companies, commercial banks, industrial houses, corporate offices, business houses, etc., about which the State Governments have no authority or concern. The State Governments should create awareness among the users of fiscal stamps educating them that they cannot procure them from private sources. These agencies should be directed to collect the levy as stamp duty separately under acknowledgement and pass on such accruals to the State Government periodically. It is found that generally stamp papers receive greater attention than the fiscal stamps and adhesive stamps. As the special adhesive stamps, fiscal stamps, postal stamps, court fee stamps and judicial stamp papers need to be given due importance with regard to security features, manufacturing, distribution and sale, as there is wide scope for making illicit money through these varieties of stamps. The system of checks and balances requires to be overhauled.

All currency notes, including one-rupee denomination, are given serial number but stamp papers of above rupees ten thousand denominations are only numbered. All the stamp papers, including the fiscal stamps of high denominations, should be serially numbered.

As the criminal gang has succeeded in achieving wider ramifications across the country, a coordinated effort is needed among the different wings of criminal justice system to understand the intricacies of the ramification and mode of operations employed by the criminals. The investigation and prosecution needs to be well insulated by attempts to sabotage their work.

These are some of the suggestions, which I have put before the House and the Executive also. They may study these things. We appreciate one thing, which the Government has done. They have declared that those who have used these fake stamp papers will be protected. That is a right stand taken by the Government.

The second suggestion, which was given by Shri Kirit Somaiya, is to find out the amount of money involved. Is it Rs.2000 crore, is it Rs.3000 crore, is it Rs. 32,000 crore, is it Rs.40,000 crore or is it Rs.60,000 crore? This is a very difficult task and yet somebody has to be on it and somebody has to find out approximately as to what amount of money is involved and where has this money gone. This is a big amount of money, which cannot be easily hidden. Where has this money gone? This has also to be found out. Attempts should be made in this regard.

The responsibility is that of all the Governments in the country, the Government of India, certainly the State Government and the district authorities, the police as well as other authorities also. They have to discharge their duty.

The only thing that I would request in the end is that let us not allow any criminal to go scot-free and at the same time let us not try to get some political advantage out of this by alleging things against others. If we are correct, the results will be good and if we are not correct, then all will be subject to mudslinging and it will not take us anywhere.

MR. SPEAKER: My request to all the hon. Members, those who are yet to speak, now, is to take only ten minutes because we have to complete this debate, under any circumstances, by 3 o’clock. The hon. Minister will be on his legs for reply at exactly 2.45 p.m. I have to conclude the debate, because of the constraint of time, by 2.45 p.m. and thereafter, the hon. Minister will take another 15 minutes. At 3 o’clock, this debate will be over. So, ten minutes are given to each Member.

श्री हन्नान मोल्लाह (उलूबेरिया): अध्यक्ष महोदय, थैंक्यू वैरी मच। इस हाउस की एक ऐसी परम्परा बन गई है कि हर सैशन में एक-दो स्कैम या भ्रष्टाचार पर चर्चा करना, हमारा दुखदाई कर्तव्य बन गया है और इसकी अनुमति देने के लिए आपको भी मजबूर होना पड़ता है। यह हमारे देश की नीति, नैतिकता, आर्थिक व्यवस्था और प्रशासन के लिए बहुत ही गम्भीर विषय बन गया है। हम सब को मिल कर विचार करना पड़ेगा कि इस अपराध को किस तरह दूर किया जा सकता है, जो हमारे हर क्षेत्र को, जिन्दगी के हर पहलू को कलुषित एवं भ्रष्ट कर रहा है। इसके खिलाफ किस तरह लड़ाई लड़ी जा सकती है, यह सोचना बहुत जरूरी है।

महोदय, जैसा मैंने बताया कि जो फेक स्टेंप का इस्तेमाल किया गया, हिन्दुस्तान के ७२ शहर और कम से कम १८ प्रांतों में इनका इस्तेमाल किया गया, जो रूरल ऐरिया तक बेचे गए। आपने खुद बोला कि ६०,००० करोड़ रुपए की खबर आई है। एक सामानान्तर अर्थव्यवस्था हमारे देश में बन गई है, जो हमारे देश की सिक्योरिटी या विकास के हर पहलू को बहुत खतरे में डाल सकती है। यह बहुत षडयंत्र घटना है। इसमें अपराधी, राजनेता, दलाल, रियल ऐस्टेट का मालिक, प्रोपर्टी इंश्योरेंस का एजेंट, गवर्नमैंट और पुलिस आफिसर तथा लॉयर्स भी शामिल हैं। समाज के हर पहलू के लोग इसमें जुड़े हुए हैं। कोई ऐसा हिस्सा नहीं है, जो इसके साथ नहीं जुड़ा हुआ है। पिछले कई साल से यह अपराध कैंसर की तरह चल रहा था और हमें अंदर ही अंदर बर्बाद कर रहा था। हमारे प्रशासन और सरकार की नजर से बचाकर ऐसा काम हुआ, उनकी नजर में नहीं आया, यह भी बड़ी चिन्ता की बात है। हमारे अंदर-अंदर बीमारी बढ़ती जा रही है और किसी को पता भी नहीं चलता है। इसका कारण यह भी है कि स्टाम्प्स का शार्टेज है। यह हमारी सरकार को देखना चाहिए था, देश में स्टांप की जितनी जरूरत है, उसके प्रोडयूस करने में कमी रही। अंदर ही अंदर कोई साजिश रची गई है, इसलिए कम प्रोडयूस करवाया और वह जो कमी है उसे पूरा करने के लिए ये दो नम्बरी कारोबार शुरू किया गया। उसके पीछे क्या साजिश है, इसे भी देखना जरूरी है। यह जिस तरह से रचा गया, कैसे एक आदमी ने इसका कारोबार शुरू किया। नासिक में जो नैशनल सिक्योरिटी प्रैस है, यह सिक्योरिटी के लिए एक बड़ा खतरा है। उस प्रैस के कर्मचारियों और आफिसर्स के साथ सांठ-गांठ की और उसके बाद जिस मशीन से छापा जाता है, पहले उसने यह डिक्लेयर करवाया कि यह काम के काबिल नहीं है। उसके बाद उसे बेचने का जो तरीका है, उसे डिसमेंटल करके, तोड़-फोड़ करके लोहे के भाव पर उसे बेचा जा सकता था, मगर ऐसा नहीं करके, पूरी मशीन उसे बेची गयी और वह उस मशीन को ले गया। उसने उसी मशीन से, उसी तरीके से ओरिजनल स्टाम्प की तरह उसे छापने का काम किया। उसके बाद धीरे-धीरे पूरे हिन्दुस्तान में इस व्यापार को फैलाया गया। यह भी बड़ी चिन्ता की बात है। किस तरह हमारा सरकारी प्रशासन, सरकारी प्रैस और सरकारी दफ्तर इसके साथ जुड़े रहे हैं। ये सब बातें भी आई हैं कि जिन लोगों के खिलाफ व्ा ेस दर्ज किया गया, कोई मंत्री उसके लिए चिट्ठी भेज रहा है कि उसके केस को ठीक से देखा जाये, उसे प्रोटेक्शन दिया गया। ऐसा भी आरोप आया है कि जो राजनेता गिरफ्तार हुए, जो एक जेल में अभी भी है। हमारे एक कर्नाटक के टीडीपी एमएलए उसमें हैं, उसके अलावा महाराष्ट्र के अनिल गोटे भी हैं। यह बोला जाता है कि इन सब लोगों के बहुत ऊपर तक संबंध रहे हैं। श्री गोटे बोल रहे है कि एक बड़ी पार्टी के राज्य सभापति के साथ भी इनका संबंध है। इसके पीछे बड़े-बड़े लोग हैं।

इसलिए इतना बड़ा आपराधिक आपरेशन हो सके । इसके पीछे बहुत बड़ी मदद न होती तो यह सब काम करना छोटे-मोटे लोगों के लिए सम्भव नहीं होता। जो परिस्थिति है, इसकी सही ढंग से छानबीन होनी चाहिए, इस पर सही विचार होना चाहिए कि किस तरह ऐसी साजिश रची गई थी, किस-किस जगह पर कौन-कौन लोग इसमें इन्वोल्व हुए थे। जिस तरह पुलिस में बार-बार केस दर्ज किये गये, दर्जनों केस रजिस्टर हुए पर पुलिस ने उन केसेज को इन्वेस्टीगेट नहीं किया, अपराधी को नहीं पकड़ा, इसके भी बहुत से उदाहरण अखबारों में छापे गये हैं।

यह जो सारी घटना है, इसके पीछे एक बहुत वैल कनेक्टेड पूरे देश के पैमाने पर जो साजिश है, इस साजिश को निकालना और इसे जनता के सामने लाना भी एक बहुत जरूरी काम है। जैसा आपने बताया कि इस परिस्थिति में जो ऐसा घोटाला हुआ, जो पूरे देश में इस तरह फैल गया और जिसने पिछले १० सालों में हमारी आर्थिक व्यवस्था को भी एक बड़ा नुकसान पहुंचाया, ऐसे बड़े घोटाले की ठीक ढंग से जांच होनी चाहिए, इसके लिए मेरा एक सुझाव होगा।

इस परिस्थिति में पहले तो इसकी प्रोपर इन्क्वायरी होनी चाहिए, यह अखबारों में आया है कि एस.आई.टी. जो बनाई गई थी, जो काम कर रही थी, उस एस.आई.टी. के बारे में यह बताया जा रहा है कि उसके ऊपर दबाव डाला जा रहा है कि इस केस के दायरे को न बढ़ायें और जो दो-चार लोग पकड़े गये हैं, उनके ऊपर ही किसी तरह केस करके मामले को खत्म कर दें। इसके दायरे को न बढ़ायें, ऐसा दबाव एस.आई.टी. के ऊपर हो रहा है, ऐसे आरोप भी पेपर में आ रहे हैं, इसे भी देखने की जरूरत है कि क्यों और कौन लोग इसके ऊपर दबाव डाल रहे हैं ताकि उनका नाम बाहर न आ जाये, इसे छिपाने के लिए इसके ऊपर दबाव डाल रहे हैं। इसे देखना भी इन्क्वायरी का एक पहलू होना चाहिए। इस पर शिवराज जी ने बहुत से सुझाव दिये हैं, वे सारे सुझाव इन्क्वायरी करने का एक आधार हो सकता है। इसके हर पहलू पर सही ढंग से इनक्वायरी होनी चाहिए और मजबूती के साथ इस इनक्वायरी को किया जाना चाहिए, क्योंकि पूरा देश इसके साथ जुड़ा हुआ है।

इसमें किसी एक स्टेट द्वारा इन्क्वायरी करना सम्भव नहीं होगा, इसलिए किसी सैण्ट्रल एजेंसी को ही इनक्वायरी करनी पड़ेगी। अगर एक स्टेट में इन्क्वायरी होगी और हर स्टेट अलग-अलग इन्क्वायरी करेगा तो इसका कोआर्डीनेशन कौन करेगा। इसलिए प्रोपर इन्क्वायरी पूरे देश के लिए करना और किसी सैण्ट्रल खुफिया एजेंसी को इसके साथ जोड़कर इस घोटाले को बाहर निकालना बहुत जरूरी है।

मेरा दूसरा सुझाव है कि ऑलरेडी जो रजिस्ट्रेशन हो गये, वह ३२ हजार करोड़ रुपये के हों या सात हजार करोड़ रुपये के हों, जिन्होंने रजिस्ट्रेशन कर दिया, उसकी तो इनक्वायरी करनी चाहिए, क्योंकि उसका सारा रिकार्ड फेक रजिस्ट्रेशन पेपर्स के आधार पर है, उसे कैसे निकाला जाये, वह काम किस तरह हो और निकाला गया तो जिन लोगों ने खर्च करके रजिस्ट्रेशन कराया, अगर उसे निकाल देंगे, उसको खारिज कर देंगे तो दोबारा खर्च कौन देगा। मेरे बस दो-तीन ही सुझाव हैं। इसमें यह भी देखना है कि सरकार को भी इस बात में सही सिद्धान्त का पालन करना चाहिए।

तीसरी बात है कि पनिशमेंट तो होना ही चाहिए, जो लोग अपराधी हैं, उनको कड़ी से कड़ी सजा मिलनी चाहिए, लेकिन सजा देने से ही यह मामला खत्म नहीं होगा। आने वाले दिनों में हमें फूलप्रूफ सिस्टम भी तैयार करना चाहिए। हमारे सिक्योरिटी सिस्टम को इतना फूलप्रूफ किया जाना चाहिए, हमारी प्रैस की सिक्योरिटी भी इतनी फूलप्रूफ की जानी चाहिए, इतने चैक्स एंड बेलेंस होने चाहिए, इस अनुभव के आधार पर यह सब व्यवस्था ऐसा करनी चाहिए कि भविष्य में ऐसी घटना दोबारा घटने का कोई मौका न आये।

मेरा चौथा सुझाव है कि ६० हजार करोड़ रुपया कहां गया, इतना पैसा किस अपराध में गया, किस तरह खतरे में आया, इसकी पूरी जांच होनी चाहिए और उस पैसे का पता लगाकर उसे भी किसी तरह निकाला जाये, यह भी इन्क्वायरी का एक पहलू होना चाहिए। सिक्योरिटी प्रैस भी जहां-जहां रहेगी, उसका भविष्य में जो कार्यक्रम होगा, उसके काम को भी बहुत सही तरीके से करवाना चाहिए।

पूरे देश के पैमाने पर सही इन्क्वायरी हो, अपराधियों को सजा मिले और भविष्य में ऐसा काम न हो, किस तरह इसे रोका जाये, इसका इन्तजाम किया जाये, यही मेरा सुझाव है।

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे (औरंगाबाद, महाराष्ट्र) : अध्यक्ष महोदय, देश के सबसे बड़े ३२ हजार करोड़ रुपये के तेलगी घोटाले पर मैं शिव सेना की ओर से बोलने के लिए खड़ा हुआ हूं। आपने मुझे बोलने का मौका दिया, इसके लिए आपका बहुत-बहुत धन्यवाद। पिछले दस वर्षों से देश के ७२ शहरों और १८ राज्यों में यह स्कैम फलता-फूलता रहा है। अभी सारे सदस्यों ने यही पूछा कि सरकार को इसकी इंक्वायरी करने में इतना लम्बा समय क्यों लगा? इस बारे में उनको पहले खबर लगनी चाहिए थी, लेकिन उनको इसकी कोई खबर नहीं मिली। इस मामले में १७७ लोग गिरफ्तार हुए हैं तथा हाल में अभी कुछ और लोग भी पकड़े गये हैं। मैं यह बताना चाहता हूं कि इसमें कुछ बड़े-बड़े राजनेता और पदाधिकारियों का भी अरैस्ट होना अभी बाकी है।

श्री अब्दुल करीम तेलगी ने अपने देश की ३२ हजार करोड़ रुपये की राजस्व नधि का नुकसान किया है। उसके वकील ने बंगलौर में कहा कि यह घोटाला ३२ हजार करोड़ रुपये का न होकर ६० हजार करोड़ रुपये का है। इसका मतलब यह है हमारे देश की ६२ हजार करोड़ रुपये की राजस्व नधि का नुकसान हुआ है। अब उसके किसके साथ ताल्लुकात थे, उसने पैसा किधर भेजा, उसके साथ कौन से अधिकारी मिले हुए थे, इस पर भी कड़ी कार्रवाई होनी चाहिए। मुम्बई में तो एस.आई.टी. इसकी जांच कर रही है। हाई कोर्ट ने भी एस.आई.टी. की डिमांड की थी लेकिन वहां विपक्ष के सारे सदस्यों ने यह मांग की कि सी.बी.आई. को इसकी जांच करनी चाहिए।

महाराष्ट्र शासन के जो अधिकारी हैं, वे सोचते थे कि एस.आई.टी. तो अपनी ही है इसलिए कभी भी हम उनसे कहकर फेर बदल कर सकते हैं लेकिन हाई कोर्ट ने शासन को आदेश दिया कि इसकी जो भी रिपोर्ट होगी, वह उनके पास आनी चाहिए। उसके तुरंत बाद पता चला कि वहां एक-एक करके आफिसर अरैस्ट हो रहे हैं। श्री रंजीत शर्मा, कमिश्नर पुलिस तथा अन्य पुलिस वालों की गिरफ्तारी हुई तो उन्होंने कहा कि इसकी इंक्वायरी सी.बी.आई से होनी चाहिए। हाई कोर्ट ने सी.एम., डी.सी.एम को नोटिस दिया कि यह किस तरह से होगा तो वे एकदम चुप हो गये। महाराष्ट्र के मंत्रियों में घबराहट है कि अब पता नहीं क्या होने वाला है ?

महाराष्ट्र में लगभग २२०० करोड़ रुपये के नकली स्टांप पेपर बरामद हुए। आंध्रा प्रदेश में ७० करोड़ रुपये के स्टांप पेपर्स बरामद हुए। २०५ करोड रुपये के कर्नाटक में तथा यू.पी. में ५ हजार करोड़ रुपये के नकली स्टांप पेपर्स बरामद हुए। इसी तरह दिल्ली में भी पकड़े गये। मेरा मानना है कि यहां जो अधिकारी इसमें सम्मिलित हैं, उनकी भी इंक्वायरी होनी चाहिए।

अब यह स्टाम्प पेपर कहां बने ? नासिक में जो गवर्नमैंट सिक्योरिटी प्रैस है, उसका आफिसर श्री गंगा प्रसाद १९७४ से वहां कार्यरत है। उसकी इंक्वायरी अभी तक नहीं हुई है। यह भी देखने वाली बात है। मै पूछना चाहता हूं कि पुरानी मशीन क्यों बेची गयी ? क्यापुरानी मशीन बेचते समय आपने सैंट्रल गवर्नमैंट से अनुमति ली थी ? वह भी नहीं ली। होम सैक्रेट्री ने जब दो बार इंक्वायरी की, तब उन्होंने पुरानी मशीन का उल्लेख किया था। अब रेलवे के कुछ लोगों ने भी १०० बार कम्पलेंट की है कि स्टाम्प पेपर के बंडल के बंडल जा रहे हैं लेकिन उनकी बात पर भी ध्यान नहीं दिया गया।

अध्यक्ष महोदय, हो सकता है कि श्री अब्दुल करीम तेलगी के संबंध दाउद इब्राहिम के साथ-साथ कई और लोगों के साथ हों। कई माननीय सदस्यों ने पूछा था कि क्या यह पैसा आतंकवादियों के लिए यूज होना था ? इस बारे में कई अखबारों में आया है। माननीय आडवाणी जी ने कहा था कि इसमें विदेशी हाथ ज्यादा है। श्री अब्दुल करीम तेलगी ने ब्यूरोक्रेसी के साथ अच्छे संबंध बनाये हुए थे। उसे १९९४ में इस चीज का लाइसेंस दिया गया। वह लाइसेंस तत्कालीन राजस्व मंत्री ने दिया था।

14.00 hrs. तभी से इसकी शुरुआत हुई। बाद में उसने कई ऐसे फर्जी लाइसैंस बनाकर यह काम चालू किया। इसका मतलब साफ है कि ब्यूरोक्रेसी उसके साथ थी। जांच होने के बाद कुछ ब्यूरोक्रेट्स को बचाने के लिए सत्ता पक्ष के कुछ मंत्री भी उसमें सहयोगी बने, यह भी बहुत दुखभरी बात जनता के सामने आ रही है। मैं कहना चाहूंगा कि उसने महाराष्ट्र में शुरूआत की, फिर कर्नाटक, आंध्रा प्रदेश, तमिलनाडू, दिल्ली तक ऐसे १८ राज्यों में वह पहुंचा और उसने राजस्व का करोड़ों रुपये का नुकसान किया। हाई कोर्ट की रिपोर्ट के अनुसार एसआईटी इन्वैस्टीगेशन कर रही है, लेकिन आज वहां की परिस्थिति इतनी खराब हो रही है कि मकोका के अंडर कैद जो पुलिस अधिकारी थे, उन्होंने कुछ पत्र भी वहां के महामहिम राज्यपाल को दिए। वे काफी गंभीर पत्र हैं। मैं आपको सब कुछ नहीं बताना चाहता लेकिन उसमें से कुछ-कुछ बताऊंगा। वहां के एक दो नम्बर के मंत्री डीसीएम…( व्यवधान)

अध्यक्ष महोदय : यह दो नम्बर के मंत्री क्या होता है।

...( व्यवधान)

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : वहां के उप मुख्य मंत्री के ऊपर आरोप किया गया और उनके भतीजे( व्यवधान)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : Do you take the responsibility about this? (Interruptions) ऐसे नाम लेना ठीक नहीं है।…( व्यवधान)कोई भी कुछ भी बोल दे, यह ठीक नहीं है।( व्यवधान)

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : ठीक है। एक मंत्री के भतीजे ने कैसे-कैसे लोगों को बचाया, यह भी उसमें दिया है।( व्यवधान)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : This is not correct. (Interruptions)

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : वह पत्र इतना महत्वपूर्ण है जो ऐरोडा जेल से महामहिम राज्यपाल को गया था। उसमें लिखा है - I was suspended on orders of DCM because he had promised full protection to Telgi and on the contrary I had caused him a loss of Rs. 830 crore. ८३० करोड़ का लॉस हुआ।( व्यवधान)

अध्यक्ष महोदय : क्या आप इस पेपर की जिम्मेदारी ले रहे हैं?

...( व्यवधान)

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : वह लैटर सब जगह प्रस्तुत हुआ है। . ( व्यवधान)

श्री शिवराज वि.पाटील: अगर आप यहां किसी व्यक्ति के खिलाफ कह रहे हैं तो आपके खिलाफ वहां कोई बोल सकता है। आप ऐसा क्यों करते हैं।( व्यवधान)

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : उसको एक मंत्री के भतीजे ने बचा लिया। मैं यह तो बोल सकता हूं। ( व्यवधान)

अध्यक्ष महोदय : यह बोल सकते हैं या नहीं, यह प्रश्न मुझसे पूछिए, उनसे क्यों पूछते हैं।

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : Sorry, Sir.

PSI Mane who took Telgi to Goa has not been arrested only because he is also DCM’s man. मतलब ऐसे कई लोगों को वहां के डीसीएम ने बचाया, कई लोगों को तेलगी के लिए सपोर्ट किया। मैं यह कहूंगा कि पत्र के आधार पर जो रिपोर्ट आ रही है, वहां के डीसीएम तो तुरंत निलंबित किया जाए, अरैस्ट किया जाए।( व्यवधान)मुझे अभी बहुत बोलना है।( व्यवधान)

अध्यक्ष महोदय : मैंने हरेक को दस-दस मिनट दिए हैं। मंत्री जी ने उत्तर भी देना है।

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : उनके भतीजे को भी जल्दी से जल्दी अरैस्ट करके इस बड़े कांड की जांच होनी चाहिए। उसमें बहुत कुछ लिखा है। मै सब नहीं पढ़ूंगा लेकिन कहना चाहूंगा कि जो कुछ चल रहा है, उससे राजस्व का नुकसान हुआ है। अगर शुरूआत में ही कर्मचारी, अधिकारी और उनको बचाने वाले मंत्री या जो भी लोग रहे हैं, अगर वे तेलगी का साथ नहीं देते तो करोड़ों रुपये का घपला, करोड़ों रुपये के राजस्व का नुकसान नहीं होता। जिस समय तेलगी को अरैस्ट किया गया तो उसे फाइव स्टार होटल में रखा गया था। उसे ८५ दिन तक अरैस्ट रखा गया। उसे उसके घर में भी रखा गया। उसके बाद भिवंडी में जब साढ़े आठ सौ करोड़ के तेलगी के बनावटी स्टैम्प पेपर मिले, इसके बावजूद एफआईआर में उसका नाम नहीं डाला गया था। ३५० करोड़ का जो मुद्रा घोटाला हो रहा है, इसे बचाने का क्या प्रयत्न उस समय के अधिकारी और डीसीएमने किया था ? यह मैं आपके माध्यम से सरकार से पूछना चाहता हूं। मैं यह कहूंगा कि सत्ता पक्ष के लोग, जब राणे साहब औऱ मुंडे साहब की सरकार बनाने की कोशिश चल रही थी, उस समय जो भी कांग्रेस और राष्ट्रवादी पार्टी के एम.एल.ए. बैंगलोर गये थे, उनका पूरा खर्च तेलगी के भाई ने किया था। यह अखबार में न्यूज आई थी।

SHRI MADHUSUDAN MISTRY (SABARKANTHA): Sir, we object to this.

(Interruptions)

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : We have the names of other persons. (Interruptions) You allege something (Interruptions)

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : यह सही है कि नहीं है, यह तो वे देखेंगे।( व्यवधान)

तेलगी अरैस्ट होने के बाद ‘मोका’ में उसको क्यों लेट किया गया था ?

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : Sir, I am on a point of order. (Interruptions)

अध्यक्ष महोदय : उनका प्वाइंट ऑफ ऑर्डर है। चन्द्रकांत जी, बैठिए।

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : Sir, hon. Member Shri Kirit Somaiya spoke very responsibly. My friend is also quite capable of speaking responsibly. If he is making any allegation against anybody, he shall have to support his allegations with facts and figures. (Interruptions) Otherwise, if you are saying that this was reported in the newspapers, it is not allowed. What is reported in the newspapers is not allowed in this House. What you think is correct is allowed. If you think that it is correct and if you take the responsibility, let it go on record. Otherwise it should be removed from the record.

MR. SPEAKER : I agree with Shri Shivraj Patil.

(Interruptions)

अध्यक्ष महोदय : दूसरी बात करिए। यह बात छोड़कर दूसरी बात करिए।

( व्यवधान)

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : यह सारे देश में चल रहा है और न्यूज पेपर में रोज आ रहा है। जो हम बता रहे हैं, वह हम लोग आधार से भी कह रहे हैं। सारी जनता को मालूम है।( व्यवधान)क्या यहां सदस्यों को यह मालूम नहीं हो सकता? ( व्यवधान)मैं यह कहूंगा कि तेलगी को जिसने बचाया, वहां की पूरी महाराष्ट्र सरकार को बर्खास्त करना चाहिए।…( व्यवधान)

अध्यक्ष महोदय : आपका समय हो गया है। अब समाप्त करिए।

श्री चन्द्रकांत खैरे : वहां होम मनिस्ट्री के कारण से यह सब हुआ। वहां डी.सी.एम. को मंत्री जी को सस्पेंड करना चाहिए।…( व्यवधान)तेलगी की औरत और उसकी लड़की के पास कई स्टैंप पेपर मिले लेकिन उनके नाम एफ.आई.आर. मे नहीं आए। ये सारी बातें दुनिया के सामने आ रही हैं और वहां की सरकार तेलगी को बचाने के लिए इतनी कोशिश कर रही है, यह ठीक नहीं है।( व्यवधान)समाज सेवक अन्ना हज़ारे अगर कोर्ट में नहीं जाते तो तेलगी का अफरोज़ रज़ाक जैसे बीच में छूट गया था, वैसे ही इसका भी छूट जाता। हम आपके माध्यम से मंत्री जी से पूछना चाहते हैं कि जो भी करेंसी प्रैस में वहां के अधिकारी और कर्मचारियों के सहयोग से यह काम चालू हुआ, जो काम तेलगी ने किया, सारे देश को ७००० करोड़ रुपये के राजस्व का नुकसान किया और उनके साथ-साथ जो-जो भी अधिकारी लोग होंगे, जो-जो भी राजनीतिज्ञ लोग होंगे, उन सबके खिलाफ एक्शन होना चाहिए। यह मैं आपके माध्यम से माननीय मंत्री जी से और सरकार से मांग करता हूं और किरीट सोमैया जी और शिवराज जी ने कहा कि जो भी पेपर्स आए थे, उसके ऊपर किसी के जो भी एग्रीमेंट हुए होंगे, उनको भी कानूनी समझें। ऐसी विनती करता हूं।

(ends) SHRI P.H. PANDIAN (TIRUNELVELI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, thank you very much.

This is a case of inter-State conspiracy. Conspiracy is a running train. There must be a beginning of the conspiracy and an ending of the conspiracy. Who is the mastermind behind this conspiracy? Who is the kingpin behind this conspiracy?

Sir, there was a request from Maharashtra Government for a CBI inquiry; that too they have filed it in the court. Under the Special Police Establishment Act, 1947 there is a provision that if the State Government writes to the Central Government giving consent for CBI inquiry, the Central Government has to do it. It need not go to court. What prompted them to go to the court at this stage? Normally, the jurisdiction of Special Police Establishment was not entertained by the State. It was done to keep the federal structure intact. So, at the time of taking office, the Maharashtra Government would not have given consent. But, for specific cases they can give consent. Why did the Maharashtra Government not give consent for a CBI inquiry immediately under the Special Police Establishment Act? I am talking legally.

In a conspiracy like this, there must be over a 100 people involved. It is because even for printing counterfeit notes 20 to 30 people are involved, which includes goldsmith to mix the colours, and there must be block-makers, there must be printers, there must be financiers, there must be distributors, and many other people also. But, here, in this case I do not see any such number of people. Only the name of Telgi is known to the people. It does not mention about the accessories before the act, the accessories at the time of the act, and the accessories after the act in the commission of this crime.

We should know whether the real perpetrators have been booked and whether they have the real conspirators arrayed as accused. It is a matter of investigation, and the matter is before the court. I have heard the submissions from both the sides. That is why I am also a little reluctant because the case is before the court. Innocent people should not be caught, and innocent people should not be implicated in this. But, in a case like this there must be a thorough investigation before filing the charge-sheet. Now, at least, in this case the charge-sheet has not been filed, and it is only at the investigation stage. So, let there be a thorough investigation by the CBI.

The Deputy-Leader has told the House that there is a petition pending in the Supreme Court for a CBI inquiry. That is why I said that, if you say that the Central Government is giving the consent, the Supreme Court has no option but to order for a CBI inquiry. If the Central Government goes to the Supreme Court and says that : "We are giving consent" or if the Maharashtra Government says that : "We are asking for consent" and the matter ends there. The court cannot turn down that request. Only in cases where there is a conflict -- of ordering a CBI inquiry -- between the State Government and the Central Government that the court comes into play.

Now, at least the Maharashtra Government and the Central Government can go to the Supreme Court and say that : "We are asking for a CBI inquiry. Kindly help us to order for a CBI inquiry." The Supreme Court would have no option and the High Court would have no option.

Another point worth mentioning here is that nobody is talking about the solution to remedy a situation like this. There must be a paperless regime, at least in the future so that we need not buy stamps. We will pay money into the State treasury, and we can get our documents registered or perhaps we can affix adhesive stamps on the stamp-papers, etc. We should adopt such measures so that in future such things do not recur. You can suggest that there should be a paperless regime for the registration of such documents.

डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह (वैशाली): अध्यक्ष महोदय, देश में घोटाले पर घोटाले निकल रहे हैं। इससे देश में बड़ा भारी अविश्वास का वातावरण बन रहा है। लगता है हम अंधकार में जा रहे हैं, लेकिन थोड़ी सी प्रकाश की किरण भी दिखाई देती है। वह इस तरह से दिखाई देती है कि घोटाले तो हो रहे हैं, उजागर भी हो रहे हैं और कुछ लोग भी पकड़े जा रहे हैं। यह अच्छा लक्षण है। लेकिन जहां देखा जाए, वहीं घोटाला है। स्टाम्प पेपर वाले घोटाले में पहले हमने सुना कि २००० करोड़ रुपए का घोटाला है, फिर सुनने में आया कि नहीं ३२,००० करोड़ रुपए का घोटाला है और अब उससे भी आगे का सुनने को मिल रहा है। यह भी पता चला है कि यह घोटाला १९ राज्यों में और ८५ शहरों में फैला हुआ था। सरकार को पता नहीं है कि कितने दस्तावेज इन जाली स्टाम्प पेपर्स पर किए गए हैं और अब क्या किया जाए।

मैं मंत्री जी से स्पेसफिक जानना चाहता हूं कि क्या यह बात सही है कि जब यशवंत सिन्हा जी वित्त मंत्री थे, तब इंडियन सिक्योरिटी प्रेस, नासिक की १२ मशीनें जो सही काम कर रही थीं, उनको खराब बताकर तेलगी के हाथ में बेच दिया गया? हां या न में बताएं। क्या वह त्रुटिपूर्ण और खराब मशीन नहीं थी? उसमें जो डिजाइन होता था और रोशनाई होती थी, इन सब के साथ उसे बेच दिया। १२ मशीनों में से दो मशीनें बरामद हुई और दस मिल नहीं पायी हैं। क्या यह बात सही है कि भारत सरकार के एक मंत्री ने पत्र लिखा, पैरवी की, सिफारिश की और तब उसे बेचा गया। तेलगी रेलवे स्टेशन में फल और सब्जी बेचता था। वह हर्षद मेहता जैसे साधारण परिवार का आदमी था। हर्षद मेहता के बाद तेलगी का नाम सामने आया। वह कर्नाटक के बेलगांव का रहने वाला था। उसे इंडियन सिक्योरिटी प्रेस के अफसर जो वहां कारोबार कर रहे थे, उनसे लाभ था। गुजरात, आन्ध्रा प्रदेश, दिल्ली में इस मामले की सीबीआई से जांच कराने की बात कही गई लेकिन कर्नाटक और महाराष्ट्र सरकार ने कहा कि इसकी सीबीआई से जांच नहीं कराएंगे क्योंकि किसी दूसरी एजेंसी से जांच चल रही है लेकिन बाद में महाराष्ट्र सरकार ने कहा कि सीबीआई से जांच कराएंगे, लेकिन हाई कोर्ट ने कहा कि यह मामला सुप्रीम कोर्ट कोर्ट में लम्बित है इसलिए इसकी सीबीआई से जांच नहीं करायी जा सकती है। ऐसी हमें अखबारों से जानकारी मिली है। तेलगी और उसके परिवार वालों को बचाने का काम किया गया। इस मामले में ६०-६२ गिरफ्तारियां भी हुई हैं।

आज किरीट सोमैया जी ने यह सवाल उठाया। जो गलत काम करके चला जाता है तो एफआईआर दर्ज की जाती है। वैसे ही हमारी तरफ से यह काम होना चाहिए था लेकिन उसे सत्ता पक्ष के लोगों ने उठाया। कांग्रेस पार्टी मुख्य विपक्षी पार्टी है। यह मामला पहले उनको उठाना चाहिए था। उन्होंने नहीं उठाया तो हमें पहले यह मामला उठाना चाहिए था। बड़ी वचित्र स्थिति है। सत्ता पक्ष की तरफ से ही यह मामला आ गया और उन्हीं की तरफ से यह बात आई कि घोटाला हो रहा है। इसे देखने की जिम्मेदारी किस की है? रोज घोटाले हो रहे हैं। ऐसे घोटाले किस के राज में हुए और क्यों हुए? आप अखबारों में ऐसे घोटालों की खबरें देखते होंगे। आज देश भर के मेधावी छात्र परेशान हैं। कुछ लोगों ने प्रैस को ही खरीद लिया। जो प्रेस में तरह-तरह के आईएएस और आईआईटी परीक्षा के क्वैश्चन छपते थे, वहां उन्हें निकाल लिया जाता था। माननीय वित्त मंत्री जी इस बात को साफ करें कि देश में कई बरसों से जो चर्चा चल रही है कि जाली नोट छप रहे हैं, इस पर रोक लगाने के लिए उन्होंने क्या कदम उठाए हैं? भारत सरकार इस बीमारी को दबाने के लिए षडयंत्रकारियों को बचाने का काम कर रही है। वह कैसे कर रही है, मैं इसका सबूत देना चाहता हूं। मैं छोड़ने वाला नहीं हूं। उपप्रधान मंत्री श्री लालकृष्ण आडवाणी ने बृहस्पतिवार को स्टाम्प पेपर घोटाले को गम्भीर मामला बताते हुए कहा कि इसमें उन्हीं लोगों के हाथ होने की आशंका है जो सरहद पार से आतंकवाद के माध्यम से देश को अस्थिर करने की कोशिश कर रहे हैं। देश में कुछ भी गड़बड़ हो तो कहा जाता है कि यह पाकिस्तान से हो रहा है, इसे आईएसआई कर रहा है। जो असली षडयंत्रकारी लोग हैं, घोटालेबाज लोग हैं, उन्हें बचाने के लिए गृह मंत्री का बयान पर्याप्त है। यहां से मशीनें खरीदी, डिजाइन खराब नहीं किया, डिजाइन सहित उन्हें खरीद लिया, रोशनाई भी उसमें से खरीद ली। मशीन खरीद लिया, कागज निकल गया, डिजाइन है ही, रोशनाई है ही और वह खूब स्टाम्प पेपर छापने लगा। देश में क्या गलत काम हो रहे हैं, यह देखने की जिम्मेदारी गृह मंत्री जी की है लेकिन वह कहते हैं कि क्रॉस बॉर्डर टैरारिज्म की तरह बाहर से आ रहा है। वह यहां का षडयंत्रकारी लेकिन कहा जाए कि वह बाहर से हो रहा है, क्या उन्हें बचाने के लिए यह पर्याप्त बात है या नहीं? उन्हें यह बात कहां से पता लगी और उन्होंने इसकी कैसे जांच की, यह देश जानना चाहता है। इस तरह से इस मामले को दबाने की कोशिश की गई। यह तो वही बात हुई " कहीं पर निगाहें, कहीं पर निशाना"इन सब में नौकरशाही पूरी तरह असफल रही है या नहीं? यह वर्तमान व्यवस्था की पूरी विफलता है या नहीं?

इसके लिये कौन जिम्मेदार है? माननीय सदस्य बताते हैं कि मुख्य मंत्री ने वित्त मंत्री को पत्र लिखा लेकिन उस पर ढिलाई बरती गई। हम काफी समय से इस कांड के बारे में सुनते आ रहे हैं। इस देश में व्यवस्था में कुव्यवस्था उत्पन्न करने की कोशिश की जा रही है जो खराब बात है। इस मामले में सख्ती करने की आवश्यकता है। स्टाम्प पेपर मामला चौपट है, उसमें लेकुना है। मेरा सरकार से आग्रह है कि इसमें कानून बनाने की आवश्यकता है। यह बदलाव कैसा होगा, लोगों में विश्वास कैसे पैदा होगा,सरकार इस पर विचार करे।

अध्यक्ष जी, गांव के लोग स्टाम्प पेपर खरीदने जाते हैं लेकिन वे जानते नहीं कि जो स्टाम्प पेपर खरीदा जा रहा है या जो दस्तावेज बन रहे हैं, वे जाली हैं। वे कैसे समझेंगे? उन गांव वालों में पैनिक हो गया है। इस मामले में भारी अव्यवस्था और अराजकता हो गई है। यह सरकार की जिम्मेदारी बनती है। अभी तो सुनने में आया है कि देश के १९ राज्यों में यह घोटला फैला हुआ है लेकिन हो सकता है कि सारे देश में ही फैला हुआ हो। जाली स्टाम्प पेपर के आधार पर एम.बी.ए. का दाखिला तेलगी ने करवाया, इंजीनियर ६० लाख रुपये में खरीदा, उसे बहाल किया और बहाल करके एजेंट बनाकर देशभर में फैला दिया। देश में भारी बेरोज़गारी है, इसलिये जाली स्टाम्प बेचने लगा। देश के लिये चिन्ता की बात है। इस राज्य में घोटाले पर घोटाला हो रहा है। जब से यह सरकार आयी है, घोटाले पर घोटाला हो रहा है और सरकार सभी घोटालों को दबाना चाहती है और अपराधियों को पकड़ना नहीं चाहती। इससे लोगें में अविश्वास की भावना पनप रही है। इसमें ब्यूरोक्रेसी की विफलता है। जब तक अव्यवस्था में सुधार नहीं किया जायेगा, तब तक कुछ होने वाला नहीं है। मैं वित्त मंत्री जी से इन सब बातों का स्पष्टीकरण चाहता हूं।

SHRI ANADI SAHU (BERHAMPUR, ORISSA): Mr. Speaker, Sir, it is said that a nation’s morals are known from its teeth; the more decayed they are, the more it hurts when they are touched. This is what is happening now in this country.

In this country there is decadence in the society as a result of which we are faced with a number of scams whether it is the stock markets scam or the counterfeiting of stamps scam. Fake stamp paper scam is a high return and low investment affair. It is a racket where there is no investment. It started in 1992-93 and spread its tentacles by 1994-95. The tentacles were so strong and so long that it had spread to the whole of the country. Now, after ten years, people in 72 towns and 18 States of this country have some sort of involvement in the counterfeit stamp paper scam.

The nations' morals, as I said, have to be seen to see as to how it has been operating. Not only the stamp papers but there are other things also which have been counterfeited. They are: judicial court fee stamps, non-judicial stamps, revenue stamps, special adhesive stamps, notarial stamps, foreign bills, brokers’ notes, insurance policies, share transfers, insurance agency stamps, etc. All these have been counterfeited and channelised as genuine material. This has almost caused a loss of about 32,000 crores or a little more than that to the exchequer. In the last ten years there have been lots of these things and this has been possible because of fraud and corruption. This could not have been possible by a single activity of the mastermind Abdul Karim Telgi. A single person could not have done it without the help and assistance of a number of persons of the bureaucracy, the political class and the lawyers. We have forgotten about lawyers. Lawyers also are involved in this scam.

This type of activity requires first contact. How many people have been contacted and all that.

   

Second is direct sale. When there is sale, there has to be protection to the people who have been selling and the people who have been helping in getting contacts. So, third is contact. Fourth is the trouble shooters. They are the most important people.

These are the four categories of people involved in this type of scam. All these had a support of a Wahid, a Yadav, a Gote, a Rasik Kulkarni who is an advocate and many other people like one Das, Pataudi and all those who lived in Delhi.

Sir, this facilitated a wide network of counterfeiting the stamp paper scam. There has to be an umbrella of protection. By acts of omission and commission, the umbrella of protection has been given by the likes of Dalip Panduram Kamath, an ASI who has amassed a hundred crore of rupees; an inspector P.R. Deshmukh; an ACP, Mulani; a DCP, Sawant; an IG, Sridhar Waghal; and a Commissioner of Police, R.S. Sharma.

It is a travesty of history now that a 1968 Batch officer is now the Director of the CBI and a 1968 Batch officer of the IPS is in Jail, that is, R.S. Sharma.

Sir, here, I must praise the action of a Deputy Inspector-General of Police who raised the finger of accusation against his seniors. He was Mr. Subodh Jaiswal who was a DIG of Police. He raised the accusing finger against his seniors of acts of commission and omission.

Unfortunately, Sir, the Government of Maharashtra, abdicated its executive functions and did not take any action against these people, as a result of which the High Court had to step in.

Sir, the executive had abdicated its powers. That is why the High Court had to come in and a special investigation Team was created to look into these aspects.

MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now.

   

SHRI ANADI SAHU : Sir, kindly bear with me. I would conclude my speech within four minutes from now.

Sir, a special investigation team was created by the High Court because the executive authority had abdicated its powers. That is to be looked into.

Now, Sir, the mastermind of this scam, Telgi had, by manipulation, ruthlessness, blackmail and salesmanship -- he had the salesmanship also -- was able to amass lots of money and he could infiltrate into the Security Press at Nasik and to some extent the Security Press at Hyderbad also. We have not taken into account the Hyderabad Security Press. He had made inroads into these places and he, along with his associates, came as a parasite on the society. Now, we are facing difficulties.

Since I am not getting much time, I would only tell five to six points. What is to be done? First is collection and collation of evidence from different States. For that matter, the CBI would be the proper authority for collection and collation of facts.

Second is the connection of Abdul Karim Telgi with the SIMI and the ISI. It has been reported in the newspapers that in Kolkatta, Telgi had come in contact with SIMI people. So, the link between SIMI and the ISI people has to be found out so far as the money which has been siphoned off to different agencies is concerned.

Now, there is a question of money laundering. Where has the money gone? That has to be found out.

Next is, revamping of the Security Press at Nasik. That is most important. That has to be seen as to how auctioning of different parts of Dyes could be made possible by giving it to one individual person by different methods.

Next is changing the legal system so far as the scams are concerned. Unless we change the legal system, these types of scams will keep on coming.

There has to be a foolproof system of transportation because all the papers and stamps had been looted while they were being taken by the Railways. So, the RPF has to come in for escorting of these types of things so that it may not recur.

With these few words, I conclude.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (RAIGANJ): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to first of all say that this is a debate in which the concern of the country’s economy and the future of revenue is in question.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, we know in this country that many scams exposed the high-ups in the administration and politicians; and we took opportunities to score points against one another time and again. But today, I shall refrain myself from doing so, not because we have our Governments in those two States where the Telgi investigation is going on Karnataka and Maharashtra but precisely because history is linked for many, many years with the other 16 Governments in other 16 States and 72 towns, which is ruining the economy of the State and the economy of the nation.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, when the whole issue came to limelight, the Congress President, Shrimati Sonia Gandhi issued a statement and I quote:

"The unfolding of the investigation into the fake stamp paper racket in Maharashtra and other States indicates that this has been a criminal operation of almost unprecedented proportion. In order to ensure that such crimes do not happen in future, the investigation should be allowed to take its own course in an unfettered manner. All those involved need to be brought to book. No protection from any quarters should be given to those who are guilty."

 

 We stick to this stand, which is expressed by the Leader of the Opposition, Shrimati Sonia Gandhi.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, today, I should take liberty to first congratulate the Government of Karnataka. The Karnataka Government first went into the depth of the scam. On 19th August 2000, the Police of the Bangalore City seized fake stamps and other materials and registered a case. Initially it was reported as Rs.12 crore seizure. The seizures and arrests created sensation; the main accused Abdul Karim Lala Saheb Telgi of Khanapur of Belgaum District of Karnataka, now a permanent resident of Mumbai remained absconding. After a few more arrests, the Bangalore police filed a charge sheet on 14th November 2000 against 20 accused, showing seven persons including Telgi as absconding. On 7th November 2003, Telgi was arrested by the Bangalore City Police at Ajmer in Rajasthan and was brought to book in Bangalore.

His arrest created further furore and the delay in his arrest generated a controversy. This issue rocked the Legislative Assembly of Karnataka and as a follow up action, the Karnataka Government constituted a Special Investigation Team called STAMPIT under such and such number, in Bangalore and further arrests and investigations are on.

Shri Pandian said that chargesheets have not been filed. The chargesheet was filed by STAMPIT of Bangalore, related to almost all the cases. This was unearthed first in November 2000.

If I am not wrong, on 20th June 2002, the leader of the Indian Security Press Mazdoor Sangh, Nasik Road, affiliated to Hind Masdoor Sabha, and not to Congress, Shri S.R. Kulkarni gave a rejoinder to the then Finance Minister’s statement on the stamp paper scam.

MR. SPEAKER: There is constraint of time. Please do not quote everything and give just a gist of it.

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : All right. While reminding the Finance Minister, he asked him not to allege involvement of their employees, and also to get it inquired by a Parliamentary Committee. He raised a question on how the auction was done.

Sir, I sought your permission and gave a notice to lay on the Table of the House, three very important correspondences, from the Chief Minister of Karnataka to the Deputy Prime Minister, on 22nd November 2003, from the Chief Minister of Karnataka to the Finance Minister, on 11th July 2002 and from the Home Minister of Karnataka to the Finance Minister, on 16th April 2003. Since there is constraint of time, I would like those three correspondences to be laid on the Table of the House, which I have personally authenticated. The present Finance Minister is in possession of those letters; he could see how seriously and sincerely, the Karnataka government single-handedly fought this case and kept the Union of India, informed of this matter for appropriate intervention and also to have new security system, etc. Therefore, the Government of Karnataka which first unearthed the whole issue deserves the appreciation of all of us in the House, which did the job excellently well before the Maharashtra Police came into the picture.

Mr. Speaker, Sir, I would like to submit to the hon. Finance Minister how is it that our Revenue Intelligence is unaware of this and how is it that our IB is unaware of this? This is not a new thing. It is a very big racket. I propose to the hon. Finance Minister the following four points for his consideration. Will he consider them?

Will he consider amending the Stamp Act in the light of the present scam? Secondly, will he devise a new security device not only in the case of stamp paper printing but also in the case of currency printing? It is because tomorrow the same thing can happen in the case of currency notes also. Who knows what is happening and where? The entire Security Printing Press of India requires a new security device.

He can consult any number of experts he likes. After the attack on the Parliament Complex by the terrorists, hon. Speaker appointed a Committee to provide a new security device which I think is a very good one. Why can he not after the exposure of this scam think of consulting Indian and international experts on what additional security devices could there be, for the National Security Printing Presses, wherever they are, whether they are in Hyderabad or in Nasik, to take care of future security.

Thirdly, in the case of currencies, there is a serial number and also series number on the notes. Can he evolve a system of having serial number and series number on all security printing documents like the stamp papers, as on the currency notes? If they do it, the Government would know that X and Y series are given to Bengal and K series is given to Kerala, etc. so that in future, if something happens, the Government could find it out immediately.

My last suggestion is on the auction plan of all materials of the Security Printing Press -- be it ink, be it colour, be it equipment, be it machines, etc. There should be a regulatory system to know what could be auctioned and what could be destroyed within the Press, etc. I understand that the basic thing starts with the usage of equipment and the machines. The whole story began from them. Therefore, I feel that if the Finance Minister could come out on these things boldly on those suggestions, I would be happy.

I want to add one word in response to Shri Chandrakant Khaire. I would like to tell him that nobody is opposed to the CBI inquiry. He praises Shri Anna Hazare and I would like to quote him. He said that SIT is doing a very good job and there is no need for a CBI inquiry. I would like to quote his leader, Shri Bal Thackeray. He said in a TV interview that SIT is doing a good job and there is no need for a CBI inquiry. Now, you are saying like that. यदि हम लोगों को छुपाना है, हमें इस बात का डर है, तो हम सी.बी.आई. नहीं जाते। Then, it went to Bombay High Court. It said that there is no need for a CBI inquiry. Now, the matter is going to the Supreme Court. Even if the CBI does it, who is objecting to it? We are all for it. But the process started from Karnataka and Maharashtra. If those High Courts and the Governments feel that the job is being done well, why do you feel that the CBI alone could do it? You may have faith in CBI and somebody else may not have faith in CBI. So, let the court decide it; let them do it. Let us not politicise the whole investigation.

Let us resolve in this House be it bureaucracy, be it lawyers, be it Police Commissioner, be it politicians from whichever side they are that the country should not compromise on anybody in this matter. That should be the resolve. If that resolve is there, I think the Government of India can do a better job in this matter.

MR. SPEAKER: The last speaker is Shrimati Renuka Chowdhury. After that, the hon. Minister will reply.

श्रीमती रेणुका चौधरी जी, मैं आपको केवल पांच मिनट दे रहा हूं।

SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, I would like to lay all the correspondences on the Table of the House.

MR. SPEAKER: You can lay duly authenticated correspondences on the Table of the House.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY (KHAMMAM): Sir, thank you so much for the permission given to me. I wanted to associate myself on this discussion on Telgi issue not so much as to elaborate on what my learned colleagues have said before me. But as a national security concern, today India must be seized of the matter, that we look at Telgi as the tip of the iceberg for what is happening within the country. As of now, I am sure that there has been no authoritative analysis or understanding of the magnitude of the kind of money that is involved in it. Perhaps, it would even exceed what we would allocate for the national budget.

Sir, this kind of infiltration is not just by the Telgi but by all the security papers. Areas which we need to address are, judicial stamp papers, passports and printing of bank notes. Today, counterfeiting of India’s currency is at an all time high, which has not been addressed, understood or even looked into. So, I beg to the Ministers and my colleagues here that they need to be proactive and not wait for another Telgi to happen in a currency and then become reactive to the situation.

I am aware that India is now poised to change her currency notes to include security features so that it secures India. These notes we should be able to detect not just at the border securities but also at police, defence and immigration areas so that hand-handled instruments will be able to detect if the counterfeiting is there or not.

In view of this, if you look back to the history of India’s currency printing, there was a time when we had such obsolete technologies, which are still being applied today. A Company, called Portals, which was blacklisted in India, subsequently found favour with us for purchase of their technologies and machines. It is absolutely mysterious, how it was reverted and was accepted and adapted as of today. Simultaneously, if you look at it, Sir, India has become a dumping ground for obsolete features and features rejected by important countries. Even as of now, India purchases her bank note papers, which are actually made of cotton and a fibre, at Rs.7000, whereas, it is available internationally in several countries for as little as Rs.5000. These kinds of discrepancies and considerations have to be looked into before we take a permanent step of altering our features.

Sir, if you go on to address the issues, you will also see that if we do not have that expertise, which we do not, we have a bunch of transient bureaucrats who are moved about, not allowed to concentrate and ill-informed security personnel who are taking this momentous decision about how much currency and what features will be incorporated. We have to learn to take the lead and follow advanced countries such as America, Japan, European Union and UK itself. Without looking into that, why is India now adapting technologies which are used by countries such as Taiwan and other nations which have equal porosity of counterfeiting of currency as India does? Sir, if you look at it, the most advanced country employing the security features is Swiss (Franks). It is the counterfeiters’ nightmare. No other nation deletes security features. They go on adding. (Interruptions)

I have several other very important points, but because of paucity of time, I am not being allowed to speak. I have one more concern. Pakistan has set up a mill-modernisation, which is going to print the window-thread technology. As you are aware, this window-thread currency is not used in Pakistan. So, we will have to look towards Pakistan to see that we secure her brothers within and without.

THE MINISTER OF FINANCE (SHRI JASWANT SINGH): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I am grateful to the hon. Members. The essence of this discussion is a very serious concern that the hon. Members have. The concerns centre upon the economic security of the country. I accept it. It is exemplified by what has happened in the matter of the stamp paper. Now I must, at the very beginning, say that so far as the stamp paper matter is concerned, -- before I come into details -- without any doubt whatsoever this is a systemic failure of serious proportion. We have, in the Ministry, examined, as to what has gone wrong and why it happened. But that it is a consequence of a systemic failure, we would be in error if we did not start with that tenet that because of the systemic failure, all these things have taken place.

Here is the twist of the situation. Now we have an Act "Stamp Paper Act " which is of the, in fact, 19th century. It still continues. We have two security presses. One is of the imperial vintage. Nashik press is of 1924 and Hyderabad Press is a later vintage of 1982. Now, thereafter the Ministry of Finance has administrative control over the security presses and what is the output of the security presses goes to the State Governments concerned. The State Governments are, of course, entirely free to have their own stamp papers and because of this a situation has been in existence in the country. I do not think it is the most efficient way to deal with the situation but that is the reality.

Now I do wish to go into very briefly the chronology of events of all this because it is very important. I studied this at some length. There is a system in existence and obviously it was a system that had in-built faults and defects whereby the sale of old and used machinery or replacement of used machinery is governed by a certain set of regulations, rules, etc. But obviously there was a systemic failure because I will share with the hon. Members as to what happened. On 5th March, 1998, that is before the NDA Government came into office, one machine was disposed of as obsolete. Two machines were disposed of after the NDA Government came into office on the 1st April, that is, within days of coming into office. What I share with the House now is on the basis of very detailed analysis and inquiry that we initiated as soon as I came to learn of all this. I do not wish to judge the issue and I do not wish to condemn anybody as guilty unless proved. I will share those, I think, are guilty. I came to preliminary conclusion that in the disposal of what is termed as obsolete machinery, the care that is necessary in deciding obsolete and in certifying obsolete and there are attendant steps that have to be taken by the officials of the security press itself about destruction of dyes, about ensuring that the ciphers do not go etc., an adequate care was not exercised in the months of March 1998 and April 1998 and these machines were disposed of. This is a fact. It is because had that been done all this would not have taken place. I have attended this debate with all seriousness and that is a serious subject. I can attempt this subject only seriously because we have to find remedies of what has already happened so that it does not happen again.

Sir, then what happened? Between 1998 and 2000, the purchaser of the machines, the accused was the purchaser of the machines, came into play. It is still a matter of investigation as to how he purchased and through whom he purchased and what sort of transactions had taken place. I do not wish to comment on that. Some of these issues are sub-judice and some of them are under investigation. Anything on that I say here would become a statement of the Government of India and so I do not wish to make a statement.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Were these machines meant only for printing stamp papers?

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Yes.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Then the sale was only a scrap. How could it be sold as a machine or an instrument?

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: It is because they are printing stamp papers.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY : Even currency notes could have been forged.

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Not so much. When the machines grow old and the dye of the machines wears out, then necessarily the machine has to be replaced. I am not a specialist in printing of stamp papers or currency notes.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : We are not suggesting that you are Telgi’s adviser.

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: But I must candidly share what conclusions we came to. Between March and April, 1998 a new Government had just come into office. Those that had acquired these machines take a little time to set up these machines and to acquire personnel. This is all a matter now still of investigation. A number of personnel of the Security Presses, upon retirement, actually live there itself. Why should they not live there? There is no law against them staying there. So, some kind of recruitment took place. Now, this is again a matter of enquiry.

In November, 2000, in the first formal report, about the Production Planning Meet at the Security Press, it was stated that there is some possible forgery in stamp paper. There was, however, no indication then -- this could again be cited as a part of the systemic failure of organised crime or about the involvement of the Security Press officials. In order to improve the features of the stamp papers and to plug the loopholes, the Government then constituted a Working Group on Non-judicial Stamp Paper. The information about forgery in stamp papers came in November, 2000 and the Working Group was set up in February, 2001 to go and see as to what was actually happening and how it could be remedied.

Sir, I got this job at the beginning of July, 2002. The Chief Minister of Karnataka did write to me on the 11th of July. I had then only just newly got the job. He suggested, in his correspondence, that there was some nexus between the Security Press officials in what is now beginning to emerge as an issue of much larger dimension. I simply acknowledged the letter because I had, by then, not sufficient knowledge of what was happening or what actually was the dimension that I was dealing with. In the August of 2002, after investigating internally about what the Chief Minister of Karnataka had stated and because of the complexity of the situation we do not have the facilities the Finance Ministry immediately alerted the intelligence agencies. We also got the Home Ministry fully involved in it. I also alerted our other economic intelligence units of the Ministry of Finance, and the surveillance over the Security Press was tightened. The physical security of the Security Press was also tightened by the introduction of CISF. Here again, you can well ask as to why was CISF not introduced earlier. It is a valid question. It is because I find that things were just shunting along. And CISF was also saying that they are over-stretched and they do not have the manpower.

In December, 2002, I received the report of a Committee of the Ministry of Finance for introduction of new technical features. By December, the correspondence was going on and by March, 2003, I formally wrote to the Chief Ministers including that of Karnataka requesting that the names of the Indian Security Press officials who were involved could please be shared with the Ministry of Finance so that we could start taking action against them. We had no names uptill then. By February, 2003, I also approved the Technical Report of the Working Group that had been instituted. New stamp papers were being supplied to Andhra Pradesh and it is my commitment that new stamp papers with additional security features will be supplied all over the country by July, 2004. But the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh also wrote to me in January saying that this was happening and he wanted additional features. In February, 2003 all the State Revenue Secretaries were alerted and in April, 2003, the Chief Secretaries of Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka. Maharashtra and all the other states were sensitised on the enormity of the issue and were requested to verify the stocks of the stamp papers that they held because the stamp papers produced by the Security Press were handed over to the State Governments in accordance to their requirements.

I would like to share with you what the Ministry of Finance did. Simultaneously, we had alerted the Taxation Department. I somewhat hesitate to share this information because I am obliged in the Finance Ministry. Even if a person.. (Interruptions)

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MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Minister, I would like to make an observation now and you may reply after that.

15.00 hrs. DISCUSSION UNDER RULE 193 RECENT STAMP PAPER SCAM - contd.

THE MINISER OF FINANCE (SHRI JASWANT SINGH): Before I share with the hon. Members the steps taken by the Income-Tax and the Revenue Departments, I must add a caveat that I am under an obligation that even an accused continues to have the right to certain privileges and secrecy. For example, unless they are all proven to be illegal, and as we are in the middle of investigation, I can only share the outline of what we apprehend or suspect. But before I go into all these details, I just have one or two additional points to make.

The gravity of the stamp paper scam etc. really came into sharp contrast after the Karnataka Police began to register cases against one Abdul Karim Telgi in the August of 2000. I also wish to share with the hon. Members that in all, about 74 cases have been registered in Karnataka, Maharashtra, Andhra Pradesh, West Bengal, Tamil Nadu, Delhi and Chandigarh. Simply because all kinds of figures have been cited about stamp papers, I wish to share with you the value of what has been seized by the investigative authorities and what the assessment of the Finance Ministry is so that we must end all kinds of other wild speculations in this regard.

The fake stamp papers that have been seized are worth Rs.3376 crore. This is what we have seized. All other figures that are being cited, I can only term them as speculative unless they are proven as correct. I am holding the responsibility. (Interruptions) I have the honour to hold that responsibility. I cannot add to the speculative frenzies that might go wrong on this issue.

Of the 74 cases, 15 relate to Abdul Karim Telgi from whose apartment alone stamp papers with a face value of Rs.3365 crore. were seized. 364 persons were arrested in these cases in all these States. In contrast to what has happened now, in the nine years preceding August, 2000, 50 cases have been registered for fake stamp papers and 135 persons arrested. The face value then of the stamp papers was only Rs.22 crore. I thought that I must share all this with you. In addition to this, so far as the revenue is concerned, I will shortly come to the steps that we have already taken.

The Revenue authorities have, in addition, filed 9 cases against those that are belonging to the Telgi Group, about himself, members of his family and four of his associates. They have all been centralised under the Chief Commissioner of Income-Tax at Bangalore. (Interruptions)

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY (KHAMMAM): Is the loss of revenue being computed?

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: About the loss of revenue, I will share the information with you. The loss of revenue is not so much to the Central Government as it is to the State Government concerned. It is really for the State Governments, hereafter, which are to really investigate in detail the dimension of the fake stamp papers in their States and then share with the Central Government what they assess the loss to be. I have shared the information regarding what has been seized as fake stamp papers. For example, how much of this is the loss to Chandigarh, I am unable to say unless Chandigarh, a Union Terrirory, shares that information or Delhi shares that information with me.

So, this is a loss to the State Governments, not so much to the Central Exchequer. In addition to that, in a routine way, the department has also attached 46 immovable properties belonging to Shri Abdul Karim Telgi. I do not want to go into the details of these properties. They are spread between Bangalore, Belgaum and Mumbai. We have a certain assessment of their face value. There are a significant number of bank accounts. Here, I have to be careful because even though he is an accused, he still has a right to the banking secrecy that any citizen has, unless he is proven guilty. So, a large number of bank accounts have been seized and the total sum of money that we have found in these bank accounts is disproportionate to the known sources of income that Shri Telgi has.

The investigation by the Directorate-General of Income-Tax is going on. They are coordinating with the authorities concerned, as has been pointed out by Shri Shivraj Patil. We have made them to coordinate with the local authorities and local police. So, to that extent, we are with them.

Sir, before I come to the additional security measures, the induction of CBI became necessary only because of the spread of the virus, if I might put it like that, and because it is in various States, the whole investigation has become too diffused. That is the second attendant legal difficulty, which, as a non-lawyer, I am not able to comment fully upon, but I am informed, perhaps, the Law Minister will be able to tell us better. For example, if this accused Shri Telgi is tried by one court or under one charge in Karnataka, then it will be difficult for us to charge him or try him on the same charge or a similar charge elsewhere and that became the rationale for seeking a centralised investigation so that all those principal accused would then, thereafter, not suffer from the debility of double jeopardy. This is a very serious case and so the Government is mindful of not being trapped in the consequences of double jeopardy. This was the rationale behind this.

The hon. High Court of Mumbai has said that let the SIT continue the investigation. We have been seeking information from the Government of Maharashtra. Like the Government of Karnataka which has shared with us the findings of their SIT, the Government of Maharashtra has, unfortunately, not shared their SIT’s findings with us unless they have lately come through. But to my best knowledge, they have not.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL (LATUR): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I do agree that the principle of double jeopardy may apply if there are two cases filed on one incident and the court is required to give judgement in two cases. If the judgement is given in one case, then the second case becomes redundant. But the investigation by the CBI or the State police can be coordinated in such a fashion that the material required for filing the charge-sheet can be collected, can be used and the charge-sheet can be filed. That is one thing.

The second thing is, the Special Investigation Team has been constituted under the instructions given by the Maharashtra High Court. So, the information is with them and probably that is with the Special Investigation Team. As far as I understand, it is not shared with the State Government and that is why the information is not with you. It can be given to the CBI or any other investigating authority at the disposal of the Central Government.

SHRI P.H. PANDIAN (TIRUNELVELI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I want to make a small submission.

MR. SPEAKER: You cannot ask any question now. We are already running short of time. We have to finish a lot of business.

SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : Sir, the question of double jeopardy will not arise if the charge-sheet is filed at the place of conspiracy, where the offence has been firstly conspired. Usually the train starts from one destination to other destination. Conspiracy is a running train. So, in that way, the first destination can be taken. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister need not reply to every question that is being asked because we are really short of time. I want to complete the business as early as possible.

SHRIMATI RENUKA CHOWDHURY : As per the law, they should have informed that there is disproportionate money coming in his bank accounts.

15.11 hrs. (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair) SHRI JASWANT SINGH: I have shared whatever information I have. I do not want to land into the double jeopardy. (Interruptions) I do not want to land in the double jeopardy sandwiched between two lawyers. … (Interruptions)

SHRI P.H. PANDIAN : There should be one centralised agency for prosecution. You cannot have different agencies for prosecution in different States. One prosecution, one set of accused. (Interruptions)

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: As long as the Government of Maharashtra is satisfied with what they are doing, we are content.

SHRI SHIVRAJ V. PATIL : Our stand is this. If it has to be done by CBI, let it be done by CBI. If you think or the Court thinks that the Special Team is doing its job properly, let them do it. We have no objection to giving this matter to CBI.

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: That is fine. The Ministry of Finance is not riding any high horse on this subject. I might share with hon. Shri Shivraj Patil a borrowed phrase. I am not interested in the colour of the cat, whether it is a white cat or a black cat, as long as it catches the mice. So, it is a matter of complete indifference to us who investigates, as long as the investigation is shared with us and as long as we are able to punish the guilty as quickly as possible. But the CBI is, at present, investigating seven cases relating to the stamp papers, and they pertain to the States of Uttar Pradesh, Gujarat, Delhi and Andhra Pradesh. In addition, we have, in the Ministry of Finance, given advice to the CBI to investigate and take suitable action against the officials of the India Security Press and also investigate if any member of the Ministry of Finance is involved in any sense in this regard.

I will share the security features in a minute. Now a question came up here. The citizens all over the country - I repeat it categorically - must please rest assured that if they are the innocent victims of having executed any document on a stamp paper that subsequently is found to be not entirely a correct document, their transaction shall not be invalid. We will preserve the validity of that transaction. We are examining all aspects of it legally so that no legal infirmity remains subsequently. If necessary, we will even come to the House with suitable legislative measures in this regard. But the citizens must completely be rest assured about it.

Now, what action has been taken in regard to the guilty and what are the additional security details? I do not want to take the names of all the officers concerned. But soon after I came to know, the three officers that dealt with the sale of the machinery were immediately suspended. Actually, I recommended the dismissal of an officer. I do not want to name him because it would not be proper for me. Under certain enabling provisions that I have, as part of the Constitution, I share it with anguish with the hon. Members that it is some months since I recommended that officer be suspended. A preliminary investigation revealed that he be suspended. The whole procedure of dismissal is bureaucratically so tangled that I am unable still to obtain his dismissal.It has nothing to do with the Finance Ministry. It has nothing to do with any particular Ministry. It is a kind of security system, security of tenurial system, that I admit frankly, the Civil Service has built against themselves. But if a dismissal is ordered, then it must go through a further approval by the Committee of Secretaries. I have to address this. I am frustrated on this account as this dismissal has not yet taken place. It is unsatisfactory.

A number of officers have been suspended. In addition, I wish to share with hon. Shri Shivraj Patil, who gave some very valuable suggestions about additional security measures, that soon after I came to learn in 2002 itself, I had initiated a whole set of additional measures starting from physical security to scrutiny and surveillance of officers, to guarding, to systems, about security of machinery, about security of Press and integrals of security also.

I hope you will understand that if I do not share all the details of all the additional security measures that have been introduced, it is not because I do not wish to share them with you, but it is because if I divulge all the security measures, then I am, in fact, perhaps unwittingly compromising the very security that we are trying to introduce.

I wish to make one additional point. A number of State Governments have taken steps in this regard. The State Government of Karnataka has ordered certain arrests. I have also ordered some administrative action just yesterday. The Government is determined not simply to get to the roots of this problem, but to find lasting remedy as well.

Sir, a number of hon. Members have raised so many points.आपने कहा कि जाली नोट बहुत हैं।

श्रीमती रेणुका चौधरी: मैंने भी कहा है।

SHRI JASWANT SINGH: Hon. Shrimati Renuka Chowdhury has also said. I wish to make an appeal to hon. Members that it is something that I came to assess only after I got this job that all currencies of all countries have a degree of fake currency possibility and fake currency reality. If we keep saying that the denomination of fake currency in India is out of control, we are, in fact, perhaps unwittingly adding to a sense of uncertainty about our own currency.

I would like to assure Shrimati Renuka Chowdhury and hon. Shri Raghuvansh Prasad Singh that this question has to be seriously addressed. Now, I do not want to go into the details as to who has the responsibility of printing currency, who decides on the security measures of it, etc. That too is a part of the whole security apparatus of currency. But we are well aware of the aspect of fake currency. It would be an error to give it a volume or a denomination that does not exist.

This, I say really only because anything that goes from this House or that House has resilience and effect on the country, which has many multiples of what an individual saying might have. It is only for that and not to minimise their concern. I greatly appreciate their concern. We share it and we are, in fact, committed to remedy any error or shortcoming that there might be and we will continue to work and we will welcome suggestions that they might have in this regard.

I am very grateful that this opportunity has come our way to discuss this issue. It has been simmering under the surface for too long. I have shared all the facts as candidly as I could and finally, I would say that the Government is determined without fear or favour because of the Oath that I took upon in the name of God. So, it is without fear or favour and we have nobody to favour in this case and nobody to fear.

We do wish to eliminate this virus and to ensure that in future it does not happen. A number of steps are on the way. We seek the cooperation of the State Governments and assure the State Governments that we will provide them with the fullest possible cooperation.

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