Lok Sabha Debates
Statement Regarding Disinvestment Policy Of Government Of India. on 9 December, 2002
> 14.37 hrs. Title: Statement regarding Disinvestment Policy of Government of India.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. Minister Shri Arun Shourie to make a statement now.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL (HOOGLY): Sir, I would like to draw your attention to this issue. It is listed just in the Supplementary List of Business. Such an important issue and such an important subject is listed in the Supplementary List. This shows their attitude to this Parliament. This is an issue which is agitating our countrymen. It involves our security. They are surrendering to the pressures of U.S. multi-nationals. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. Minister can make a suo motu statement.
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : They cannot be an agent even in U.K. … (Interruptions)
SHRI PRABODH PANDA (MIDNAPORE): Sir, the whole nation is perturbed. It is a serious matter. What is needed today is that we should have a discussion. We demand a discussion and not the statement. … (Interruptions)
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, we demand a discussion on this issue. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. Speaker has already agreed that the hon. Minister will make a statement at 2.30 p.m. SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : No, Sir. … (Interruptions)
SHRI PRAKASH YASHWANT AMBEDKAR (AKOLA): Sir, this is a policy matter and without a discussion a suo motu Statement cannot be made on the floor of the House. It infringes on the rights of certain sections of the society. … (Interruptions)
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL: We are demanding a discussion on this issue. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. Speaker has already agreed on this. Your notice is disallowed.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SUNIL KHAN (DURGAPUR): Sir, it is under pressure from U.S. and other multi-nationals. We have already given a notice for discussion under Rule 193. You have not allowed. It should be discussed on the floor of the House. … (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Sir, these days we are getting information even when Parliament is in Session from the newspapers. We come to know of many matters from the newspapers. This is a matter – I take it that it is about the oil companies because that is what is coming out in the papers – is important. We have come to know about the differences in the Cabinet from the newspapers, about the differences in the NDA from the newspapers. What is happening in other places is, of course, part of the record of this Parliament.
Can we not expect that when such vital issues are involved, before the Government’s decision is announced in the House, that it is discussed here? Let some sort of respect be shown to the Parliament and a discussion takes place before important decisions are taken. Should it be treated as a mere ritual? … (Interruptions) Will it be treated as a mere ritual? I do not know.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. Minister has given a notice to make a statement.… (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, we are not here to listen to his death warrants. What is happening? This Government is fractured on this issue. I am requesting the NDA allies also. Hon. Member Shri Prabhunath Singh is sitting here. The Shiv Sena friends are just opposing it. … (Interruptions) Therefore, I am saying that before a decision is announced, it should be discussed on the floor of the House and the views of the Members from all sides is taken and then you take a decision. What is this? This is a clear affront to Parliament. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. Minister’s Statement was agreed to by the hon. Speaker and it is listed here. I am just nobody. (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Kindly co-operate with the Chair.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, he has to make a suo motu Statement.… (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF DISINVESTMENT, MINISTER OF DEVELOPMENT OF NORTH EASTERN REGION AND MINISTER OF COMMERCE AND INDUSTRY (SHRI ARUN SHOURIE): Sir, the last time … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Only after making a Statement, decision can be taken. … (Interruptions)
SHRI LAKSHMAN SETH (TAMLUK): Sir, I have given a notice … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Lakshman Seth, he has to make the statement.… (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA (CANARA): Can we please ask a few questions after the Statement is made? … (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Is this the way to treat this House? … (Interruptions)
SHRI ARUN SHOURIE: Sir, last time when the discussion took place in this House on disinvestment, the House had to be adjourned because there was no quorum. … (Interruptions)
SHRI LAKSHMAN SETH : How can he make a Statement on the issue of disinvestment without any discussion on the floor of this House? … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Lakshman Seth, please listen to me.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Sunil Khan, Shri Basu, please hear me for a moment.
… (Interruptions)MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Prabhunath Singh, please do not interrupt now.… (Interruptions)
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Is this NDA programme or some other programme? … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rupchand Pal, he has sought the permission of the Chair. The hon. Speaker has given the permission. He has to make a statement.
SHRI LAKSHMAN SETH : No. … (Interruptions)
SHRI ARUN SHOURIE: Should I start? … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Let it go on. You read the statement.
SHRI ARUN SHOURIE: Hon. Deputy-Speaker Sir, as you and the hon. Members are aware, the Government has been implementing successfully an intensely considered and well-defined programme of disinvestment in Central public sector enterprises. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Let us see after the Statement is over.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Let him make the statement. You cannot prevent him from making the Statement.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please resume your seat. You are a senior Member.… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Speaker has given the permission.… (Interruptions)
SHRI ARUN SHOURIE: The Government has, however, been receiving from time to time several significant suggestions from the hon. Members of this House as also from experts and others outside. … (Interruptions)
With your permission and through you, I would like to inform the House that the Government has, after detailed deliberations on the various views expressed and suggestions made, decided in a meeting held on 6th December, 2002 to fine-tune the disinvestment policy and programme by adopting the following approach. … (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, this is a clear insult to Parliament. So, we are walking out.
14.44 hrs. (At this stage, Shri Somnath Chatterjee and some other hon. Members left the House.) SHRI ARUN SHOURIE: The main objective of disinvestment is to put national resources and assets to optimal use and in particular, to unleash the productive potential inherent in our public sector enterprises. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Except the hon. Minister’s statement, nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)* SHRI ARUN SHOURIE: The policy of disinvestment specifically aims at modernisation and upgradation of public sector enterprises; creation of new assets; generation of employment; and retiring of public debt. … (Interruptions) Government would continue to ensure that disinvestment does not result in alienation of national assets which, through the process of disinvestment, remain where they are. … (Interruptions)
श्री रघुनाथ झा : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मंत्री जी से कहिए कि वे फिर से पढ़ें। …( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : पहले मंत्री जी का स्टेटमेंट हो जाने दीजिए, फिर मैं आपको सुनूंगा। …( व्यवधान)
श्री रघुनाथ झा : एक बात सुन लीजिए। इस मामले में हमारी पार्टी का रिजर्वेशन है। …( व्यवधान)इस पर समता पार्टी का रिजर्वेशन है। …( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आनरेबिल मनिस्टर के स्टेटमेंट के बाद मैं आपको सुनूंगा।
…( व्यवधान)
श्री मोहन रावले (मुम्बई दक्षिण मध्य) : हम सुन नहीं सके हैं, शुरु से पढ़ने के लिए कह रहे हैं। …( व्यवधान)क्या पता लगेगा कि क्या स्टेटमेंट है। …( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप सुनेंगे नहीं, तो पता कैसे लगेगा?
श्री मोहन रावले : मंत्री जी को दोबारा पढ़ने के लिए कहिए।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : मंत्री जी दोबारा पढ़ दीजिए।
SHRI ARUN SHOURIE: Hon. Sir, as you and the hon. Members are aware, the Government has been implementing successfully an intensely considered and well-defined programme of disinvestment of the Central Public Sector Enterprises. The Government has, however, been receiving from time to time several significant suggestions from the hon. Members of this House as also from experts and others outside.
With your kind permission and through you, I would like to inform the House that after detailed deliberations on the various views expressed and suggestions made, the Government has decided in a meeting held on the 6th December, 2002, to fine-tune the disinvestment policy and programme by adopting the following approach: The main objective of disinvestment is to put national resources and assets to optimal use and in particular to unleash the productive potential inherent in our public sector enterprises. The policy of disinvestment specifically aims at: Modernisation and upgradation of Public Sector Enterprises; Creation of new assets; Generation of employment; and Retiring of public debt. Government will continue to ensure that disinvestment does not result in alienation of national assets, which, through the process of disinvestment, remain where they are. It will also ensure that disinvestment does not result in private monopolies. In order to provide complete visibility to the Government’s continued commitment to utilise disinvestment proceeds for social and infrastructure sectors, the Government will set up a Disinvestment Proceeds Fund. This Fund will be used for financing fresh employment opportunities and investment, and for retiring public debt. For the disinvestment of natural asset companies, the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of Disinvestment will work out guidelines. The Ministry of Finance will also prepare for consideration of the Cabinet Committee on Disinvestment a paper on the feasibility and modalities of setting up an Asset Management Company to hold, manage and dispose the residual holding of the Government in the companies in which Government equity has been disinvested to a strategic partner. With these objectives as the guiding principle, the Government has taken the following specific decisions: To disinvest through sale of shares to the public in Bharat Petroleum Corporation Limited (BPCL); To disinvest in Hindustan Petroleum Corporation Limited (HPCL) through strategic sale. To allot, in both cases of BPCL and HPCL, a specific percentage of shares to the employees of the two companies at one-third of the market price.… (Interruptions)
श्री रघुनाथ झा : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, इस पर सदन में बहस होनी चाहिए ताकि हम लोग भी अपनी बातों को रख सकें।…( व्यवधान)
SHRI ARUN SHOURIE: Sir, there is just one point of information. Last time, the debate took place. It had to be closed and adjourned for want of quorum. You yourself were in the Chair. I am always for a debate. … (Interruptions)
SHRI PRAKASH YASHWANT AMBEDKAR (AKOLA): You have already sold it to Reliance, and now you are making a Statement. महोदय, इन्होंने रिलायंस को कितने में बेचा है, इसका भी हिसाब बताना जरूरी है।
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: If you want to say something, I will give you permission, but you cannot speak like this. I have given the floor to Shri Prabhunath Singh.
श्री प्रकाश यशवंत अम्बेडकर:इन्होंने रिलायंस को बेच दिया।…( व्यवधान)
SHRI ARUN SHOURIE: BPCL is not being given to a strategic partner. … (Interruptions)
SHRI PRAKASH YASHWANT AMBEDKAR : You have pre-decided the issue, and it will come.
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह (महाराजगंज, बिहार) : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, इस देश में वनिवेश पर तीन तरह की प्रक्रियाएं हैं। हमारे देश में इकोनोमिक्स के जो विद्वान हैं वे कहते हैं कि बिना बेचे हुए देश की आर्थिक स्थिति सुद्ृढ़ नहीं हो पाएगी, जिनकी संख्या ज्यादा नहीं है।…( व्यवधान)
महोदय, मैं दो मिनट में अपनी बात समाप्त कर रहा हूं। इस देश में ज्यादातर लोगों का कहना है कि इस वनिवेश प्रक्रिया से देश में बेरोजगारी बढ़ेगी और आर्थिक स्थिति में सुद्ृढ़ता का सवाल ही नहीं है, बल्कि कुछ लोगों के घरों में सारी सरकारी सम्पत्ति चली जाएगी।
तीसरे तबके के लोग वे हैं जो कहते हैं कि …( व्यवधान)
SHRI PRAKASH YASHWANT AMBEDKAR : Sir, there are differences amongst the NDA partners themselves on this… (Interruptions)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप सुनिये। हाउस में परम्परा है कि स्टेटमेंट के बाद उसके बारे में कुछ भी खुलासा करने की इजाज़त नहीं है। अगर इस संबंध में कुछ भी चर्चा करनी हो, तो बिजनैस एडवाइजरी कमेटी में टाइम मुकर्रर करके डिस्कस कीजिए।
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह : उपाध्यक्ष जी, तीसरा ऐसा तबका है जो चाहता है कि इसकी दोबारा समीक्षा हो और वह कार्रवाई नहीं चल रही है। इस पर विस्तार से सदन में चर्चा होनी चाहिए और सभी पक्षों की राय सुनी जानी चाहिए तथा सदन को विश्वास में लेकर इस पर कार्यवाही होनी चाहिए।…( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: In this House we have a convention that Members are not to seek any clarifications after a Statement has been made. Rules do not permit that. I am a Member of the House and I can feel the sense of the House. Shri Prabhunath Singh has raised this matter. Everybody would like to discuss this issue. Let the House find some time to discuss this vital issue. But after the Statement has been made now, I would not be in a position to give the floor to anybody to seek clarifications on this.
… (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : Sir, they have already taken a decision… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRAKASH YASHWANT AMBEDKAR : Sir, Shri Ram Naik, the hon. Minister for Petroleum who is sitting here now, till yesterday was opposing disinvestment of the petroleum sector… (Interruptions)
SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (SILCHAR): Sir, once the hon. Speaker had allowed us to seek clarifications… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Whenever such important issues are raised, exceptions are made to the rule. But that is an exception, not rule.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : Sir, I fully agree with you. As an exception, you please allow one Member from each party to speak on this… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRAKASH YASHWANT AMBEDKAR : Sir, the hon. Petroleum Minister should be allowed to make a Statement… (Interruptions)
SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : Sir, the House would be adjourned on the 20th of this month and there would be no occasion for a debate on this issue… (Interruptions)
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, who has authorised them to do so… (Interruptions) The Parliament is in Session… (Interruptions)
श्री सुन्दर लाल तिवारी (रीवा) : उपाध्यक्ष जी, कल वनिवेश प्रक्रिया पर माननीय प्रधान मंत्री जी ने गुजरात में कहा कि वनिवेश नीति जारी रहेगी। यह सरकार देश की जनता को वर्तमान में भ्रमित कर रही है। माननीय रामनायक जी पीछे बैठे हैं। माननीया उमा भारती जी का भी इस बारे में बयान हुआ है और माननीय रक्षा मंत्री जी ने भी इस बारे में बयान दिया है। सभी लोगों ने इसका विरोध किया है। मेरी समझ में नहीं आता कि देश को ये क्या संदेश देना चाहते हैं - क्या गलत है और क्या सही है …( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rupchand Pal, you are a Member of the Business Advisory Committee. You can take up this issue in the BAC and if time is found in BAC, then you can discuss it. It should not done in this fashion.
… (Interruptions)
MR.DEPUTY-SPEAKER: This is very difficult. You give notice under Rule 193. Discuss this in the BAC and find some time to discuss this issue. That is all.
श्री सुन्दर लाल तिवारी:मंत्री जी, आपके सहयोगी भी आपके ऊपर आरोप लगाते हैं। माननीय राम नायक जी पीछे बैठे हुए हैं।…( व्यवधान)
श्री मोहन रावले : उपाध्यक्ष जी, आप हमें दो मिनट बोलने के लिए मौका दीजिए।
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Prabhunath Singh, I cannot give notice for discussion under either Rule 184 or Rule 193. It is up to you to give notice. It will be taken up in the Business Advisory Committee and if time is left, specific time will be fixed for the discussion. Then only we can discuss it.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : Sir, we support the proposal of Shri Prabhunath Singh for a discussion under Rule 184. … (Interruptions)
श्री सुन्दर लाल तिवारी:उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, प्रधान मंत्री को यहां आकर बयान देना चाहिए। मंत्रिमंडल के वभिन्न मंत्रियों ने अलग-अलग तरह के बयान वनिवेश के बारे में दिए हैं। आपके मंत्री आरोप लगाते हैं कि यह प्रक्रिया सही नहीं है और आपके सहयोगी दल भी आपके ऊपर ऐसे ही आरोप लगा ऱहे हैं। …( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shrimati Beatrix D’Souza.
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : Sir, Shri Ram Naik is opposing this; Shri George Fernandes is opposing; Shiv Sena is opposing, and all of them are opposing this. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What is going on in the House! Nothing will go on record now.
(Interruptions)* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rupchand Pal, you are a Member of the Business Advisory Committee. If you want this matter to be discussed, you give a notice.
… (Interruptions)
श्री मोहन रावले : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, आज मजदूरों के ऊपर अन्याय हो रहा है और उन्हें वेतन नहीं मिल रहा है।…( व्यवधान)
श्री सुन्दर लाल तिवारी:आप पहले अपने मंत्रियों और सहयोगी दल को संतुष्ट करिए। …( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Enough is enough. Please do not interrupt now. Shri Mohan Rawale, please do not interrupt now. I have called the name of Shrimati Beatrix D’Souza.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The Minister has made a Statement with the permission of the Chair. If you want to leave the House, you can leave.
… (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : Shri Ram Naik should answer if he is happy with the selling away of oil sector. वह तो भाग गए हैं। आप इस बारे में बोलिए।…( व्यवधान)
* Not Recorded.
डॉ. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा (दक्षिण दिल्ली):उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, उसका कोई फायदा नहीं होगा। जब पहले इस विषय पर चर्चा हो रही थी तो इनकी पार्टी का एक भी मैम्बर यहां नहीं था। हाउस में कोरम भी नहीं था और इनके सभी मैम्बर्स चले गए थे। …( व्यवधान)
श्री सुन्दर लाल तिवारी:मल्होत्रा जी, आप अपने मंत्रियों को समझाइए। भिन्न-भिन्न प्रकार के बयान आपके मंत्रियों के आ रहे हैं। इस बारें में राष्ट्रीय स्वयं सेवक संघ ने क्या बयान दिया है और आपके सहयोगी दल क्या बयान दे रहे हैं, पहले इनका जवाब दीजिए।…( व्यवधान)
SHRI PRABODH PANDA (MIDNAPORE): I have already given notice, Sir. … (Interruptions)
श्री रघुनाथ झा : हमें भी इस पर बोलने का मौका दिया जाए। …( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: मिस्टर झा, आप बिजनेस एडवाइजरी कमेटी के मैम्बर हैं। क्या आप इस बारे में नोटिस नहीं दे सकते हैं?
श्री रघुनाथ झा : हम भी इस हाउस के मैम्बर हैं।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: फिर नोटिस दीजिए। इससे आपको कौन रोक रहा है?
श्री सुन्दर लाल तिवारी: उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, यह पूरा देश बेच देंगे, क्या फिर भी आप चुपचाप बैठेंगे? आप भी इस मामले में कुछ बोलिए और निर्देश दीजिए।
15.00 hrs. उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : इस हाउस को चलाने का कोई नियम है, उस नियम के मुताबिक हाउस को चलाना है। आपको यहां पर कुछ बहस करनी है तो उसके लिए नियम फॉलो करना पड़ेगा। आप लखित रूप से दे दीजिए कि फलां-फलां नियम के मुताबिक मुझे डिस्कस करना है।
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श्री मोहन रावले : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, वहां मजदूरों पर अन्याय हो रहा है, वहां मजदूरों को जबरदस्ती वी.आर.एस. दी जा रही है।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप बैठिये।