Lok Sabha Debates
Submission Regarding Killing Of Innocent People In Jammu & Kashmir. on 8 August, 2001
NT> Title: Submission regarding killing of innocent people in Jammu & Kashmir.
12.07 hrs. MR. SPEAKER: Shri Jaipal Reddy. … (Interruptions) SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (RAIGANJ): Sir, Jammu and Kashmir is bleeding. … (Interruptions)
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MIRYALGUDA): I have given an Adjournment Motion. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Jaipal Reddy has given an Adjournment Motion. That is the reason why I called him first. Please do not disturb the proceedings. … (Interruptions) SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Where is the Home Minister? … (Interruptions)
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Mr. Speaker, Sir, even by the poor standards of law and order situation in Jammu and Kashmir, what happened last evening in Jammu is outrageous and obnoxious. This House, on the contrary, cannot remain a mute spectator to what all has been happening for so many months. After the fiasco of the Agra summit, the intensification of the terrorist activity was only to expect. We all urged the Government that the Government should increase its vigilance. I am sorry to say that the Government seems to have lowered its guard because of which so many incidents, one after another, one mayhem after another, one butchery after another, and one massacre after another, have been taking place in Jammu and Kashmir.
When these incidents are occurring in the Valley, it has been explained away on the ground that Valley was the hotbed of terrorism; when the incident occurred in Doda, it has been explained away on the ground that it was inhospitable, remote and inaccessible terrain. Now, this incident has taken place, right in the heart of Jammu at the railway station. It is a matter of shame. … (Interruptions) I think the Home Minister now has gone underground.
MR. SPEAKER: He is in the other House. As per the information given by the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs to the Chair, he would be coming to this House. … (Interruptions)
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : I would like to add that there is a limit to the endurance of the people; and there is a limit to the patience of the Opposition Parties. The B.J.P., which is in office, has organised a bandh in Jammu and Kashmir. Can the B.J.P. have the cake and eat it too? No Government in the history of India has been such a dismal failure on the law and order front. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: The House would also be discussing the same subject under the Calling Attention Motion. … (Interruptions) SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): It is amazing! … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: It is a serious matter. I called Shri Jaipal Reddy. The Minister of Parliamentary Affairs is also here. Please understand. … (Interruptions)
श्री मदन लाल खुराना (दिल्ली सदर):जम्मू स्टेशन पर कल रात फिर किस तरह से कत्लेआम हुआ है। भारत सरकार को पाकिस्तान से अब यह कह देना चाहिए किenough is enough. अब बहुत हो गया।… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Madan Lal Khurana, do you want to speak on the same subject?
… (Interruptions)श्री मदन लाल खुराना:अध्यक्ष महोदय, पाकिस्तान को साफ-साफ कह देना चाहिए कि वह जम्मू-कश्मीर में आतंकवाद को बढ़ावा देना बंद करे। वहां बहुत खून-खराबा हो गया है। …( व्यवधान )
MR. SPEAKER: Is there anything from the Government side? … (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: The Minister of Parliamentary Affairs may inform the House that the Home Minister is in the other House and that he would be coming to this House. … (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Please resume your seats. Government is ready to respond. Hon. Members may hear as to what the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs wanted to say. Please understand. The Home Minister is in the other House. He would respond when he comes here. That is what the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs informed the Chair.… (Interruptions)MR. SPEAKER: This is the problem in the House everyday. Hon. Members raise matters but they are not listening to the response of the Government.… (Interruptions)MR. SPEAKER: What is this? I allowed Shri Jaipal Reddy to raise the issue. He has raised the issue but the hon. Members are not listening to the response of the Government.… (Interruptions)MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.
(Interruptions) *… *Not Recorded.MR. SPEAKER: Shri Somnath Chatterjee, the Home Minister is in the other House. Whenever he finishes his work in the other House, he would come to this House.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ramdas Athawale, please go to your seat. … (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.
(Interruptions) …*..
*Not recorded.
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA (GUNA): It is a serious issue. … (Interruptions) We want the Parliamentary Affairs Minister to tell the House as to when the Home Minister is going to make an appearance in this House. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members are not allowing the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs to respond.
…( व्यवधान )अध्यक्ष महोदय : यह आप लोग रोज़-रोज़ क्या कर रहे हैं? आप बैठ जायें।
…( व्यवधान )MR. SPEAKER: He is responding as to why the Home Minister is not present here. Please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)अध्यक्ष महोदय : होम मनिस्टर की प्रेजेंस के बारे में पार्लियामेंटरी अफेयर्स मनिस्टर बताना चाहते हैं।
…( व्यवधान )अध्यक्ष महोदय : हमारे पास लिस्ट है। हम सब को बुलायेंगे।
…( व्यवधान )MR. SPEAKER: Shri Rajaiah Malyala, please go to your seat.
… (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY (SHRI PRAMOD MAHAJAN): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I appreciate the agitated mood of the House. … (Interruptions) Let me complete. I will not speak more than four or five sentences. … (Interruptions) Sir, if they do not want me to speak, I will sit down. … (Interruptions) Today, the Home Minister has his Question day in the Rajya Sabha. … (Interruptions) Sir, would they please allow me to speak? … (Interruptions) During Question Hour I went to the Rajya Sabha and told the Home Minister that naturally he should come to the Lok Sabha and explain as to what happened in Jammu. But In the Rajya Sabha, immediately after 12 o’clock this issue has been raised. I hope the House will appreciate that when he is there in Question Hour and when the issue is raised by the hon. Leader of the Opposition of the other House, he should be present there. … (Interruptions)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : होम मनिस्टर आ गये हैं, फिर भी आप बोल रहे हैं। आप सब बैठ जायें।
…( व्यवधान )MR. SPEAKER: The Home Minister has come.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats.
… (Interruptions)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : डा. रघुवंश प्रसाद जी, आप रोज़-रोज़ यह क्या कर रहे हैं? आपको क्या हो गया है? आप भूल रहे हैं कि आप पेनल ऑफ चेयरमैन हैं।
…( व्यवधान )MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ramdas Athawale, this is too much.
… (Interruptions)
THE MINISTER OF HOME AFFAIRS (SHRI L.K. ADVANI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, I was in the other House when naturally immediately after Question Hour this issue relating to Doda and Jammu came up in this House. My colleagues have told me that Shri Jaipal Reddy referred to this matter and immediately after that the mood of the House reflects the anguish and agony felt by everyone in this House as well as in the country.
Here is a situation, though not totally unexpected, that has come in a manner as to shake everyone and to make everyone realise that when the Prime Minister told the House yesterday that if at Agra not even a joint statement could emerge, the principal reason was that our neighbour, whose leader had come to Agra, feels that this killing of innocent men, women and children any time and anywhere is the freedom struggle going on. It is, therefore, with the best of efforts and the best of intentions that there should be a durable peace between India and Pakistan, we could not even produce a joint statement at Agra.
Now, this is a situation that cannot be met – I appreciate – by strong statements. Even a strong debate in the House is insufficient. It has to be met on the ground. There is no doubt about it.
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : It is not happening.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I can tell you that Jammu incident happened yesterday night. But even before that, when we saw what was happening in Doda, immediately we planned about it. I spoke to the Governor. He came here. I spoke to the Chief Minister. He came here. I told him that this was not an ordinary situation. On the one hand, you have to redeploy forces because of the Amarnath Yatra. But the redeployment has to be done in a manner so as not to leave areas exposed that had happened to an extent.
Many of us may have visited that area and seen what kind of Doda area is. Therefore, we decided that on Wednesday, we would meet all concerned with security: the Chief Minister of Jammu and Kashmir, the Governor of Jammu and Kashmir, the DGP of Jammu and Kashmir, the various Heads of the Paramilitary Forces, my colleague in Government who is today responsible for Defence as well as External Affairs. We will all meet and evolve an appropriate strategy. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Let him complete.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record.(Interruptions) *… MR. SPEAKER: This is not proper.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: He has to complete his statement.… (Interruptions)__________________________________________________________________ *Not Recorded.
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Jaipal Reddy, please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You are not allowing the Minister to complete his reply.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Vinay Katiyar, how can you speak while sitting? What is this? Shri Rashtrapal, please take your seat.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: This evening, we shall be meeting the DGMO, the DGP of Jammu and Kashmir, the Heads of Paramilitary Forces and the principal political leaders, who guide the whole thing, and whom I have mentioned already. We shall be taking the view not only about Doda but also about the whole Jammu and Kashmir. … (Interruptions) It is not that very simple. You being in the Opposition, you are entitled to vent your anger. I do not blame you for that.… (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : He is blaming the Chief Minister. This is a very serious matter.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: The hon. Minister has not completed his reply. … (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER: Let him complete.… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Jaipal Reddy, he has to complete his reply. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This is not good.
… (Interruptions)MR. SPEAKER: Let him complete. Then only, you can raise it.… (Interruptions)SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Sir, I can tell you the kind of difficult situation the people there on the ground, including the Chief Minister, are facing. It is not right on the part of anyone to put blame either on "A" or "B"… (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: He has done it… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Sir, their party has blamed the Chief Minister… (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : Shri Chaman Lal Gupta has blamed the Chief Minister for this situation… (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : They are accusing each other… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You are deviating from the subject.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No deviation, please. Take your seats, please.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Let me say with all the emphasis at my command that everyone there is alive to the situation and they are facing it amidst great difficulty. If any of my colleagues has blamed so and so, it is wrong and it is not the view of the Government… (Interruptions)
SHRI TARIT BARAN TOPDAR (BARRACKPORE): What is Government"s view?… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: It is not a question-answer session. Let him complete please.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: This is a situation in which all of us have to work together and assist them… (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : Sir, the whole Cabinet is talking in different voices. The question is whose voice is to be accepted… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Scindia, let him complete first.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Shri Chaman Lal Gupta is here, he should clarify the position… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Let him complete please.
… (Interruptions)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : यह आप क्या कर रहे हैं?...( व्यवधान)नागर विमानन मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री (प्रो.चमन लाल गुप्त) : मैंने किसी एक इनडविजुअल को ब्लेम नहीं किया है। …( व्यवधान )
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chaman Lal Gupta, please let him complete first.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, he is on his legs, let him complete first.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: Sit, it is not the Government"s view. The Government"s view is categorical. I have known him for all these three years, it is not today and the manner in which they are fighting, all of them, it is wrong for anyone to blame them. I can only say that you were kind enough to agree that a debate in this House will take place after this meeting… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: It will take place tomorrow.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI: The debate can be in any form, whether it is in the form of a Calling Attention Motion or under any motion, I have no objection… (Interruptions)
SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : We want a full-fledged debate on this… (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Mr. Minister, would you please yield for a minute? … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, let him complete first.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE: Sir, he is yielding.
What has his colleague said? Shri Chaman Lal Gupta accused the Chief Minister and Leader of the Unified Command that he cannot escape responsibility for shifting of troops leaving them vulnerable… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chatterjee, there are other notices also. Please understand.
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : He says, "the Chief Minister is responsible"… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Tomorrow we will be discussing this.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, this is the view he has put forward… (Interruptions) He comes from that State… (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : Sir, the Home Minister said, "we are anguished that we do not have the power"… (Interruptions) Sir, we also have the power and authority to make comments and put things in order… (Interruptions) … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You can raise this tomorrow when the debate takes place. … (Interruptions)
SHRI MADHAVRAO SCINDIA : Sir, we are not satisfied with the reply of the Home Minister… (Interruptions) Therefore, we walk out in protest… (Interruptions)
12.29 hours (At this stage, Shri Madhavrao Scindia and some other hon. Members left the House.) SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Sir, we are also not satisfied with the reply of the hon. Home Minister, therefore, we are making a walk out.
12.29 hours (At this stage, Shri Somnath Chatterjee and some other on. Members left the House.) MR. SPEAKER: Nothing should go on record. (Interruptions) * … १२.२९ hrs. ( तत्पश्चात् श्री रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह, श्री रामदास आठवले तथा कुछ अन्य माननीय सदस्य सभा भवन से बाहर चले गऐ।) ___________ *Not recorded.