Lok Sabha Debates
Need To Look Into The Problems Being Faced By Engineering Degree Holders Of Jamia ... on 26 March, 1998
Title: Need to look into the problems being faced by engineering degree holders of Jamia Millia Islamia, a Central University. *m01 SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA(PONNANI):
Jamia Millia Islamia is a Central University . Its degrees, including the engineering degree are recognised throughout the country and abroad. It is shocking that the Municipal Corporation of Delhi (MCD) have now refused to absorb the engineering graduates on the flimsy ground that their marksheets do not reflect their actual calibre. Nearly 28 engineers who were given appointment letters by MCD have not been appointed by the MCD despite court orders that they be given joining orders within two weeks. It is suddenly being alleged that the grading system adopted by the Jamia University is defective. The MCD also reportedly sought a clarification from the All-India Council for technical education and the HRD ministry and they up held the validity of the grades.
I urge upon the Govt. and the Hon'ble Minister of HRD to view the matter seriously and to intervene to secure justice for the engineering graduates of the Jamia.
SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, the time of the House has not been extended... (Interruptions)
SHRI HARIN PATHAK (AHMEDABAD): It has already been extended up to 7 o'clock. It was extended around 4 o'clock... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Please hear me first. All the leaders have agreed in the meeting to extend the time of the House.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI BASUDEB ACHARIA : Sir, you have to take the sense of the House. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: If everybody stands and speaks like this, it is impossible to run the House.
... (व्यवधान) श्री राजो सिंह (बेगुसराय): अध्यक्ष महोदय, आप एक बार हाऊस के माननीय सदस्यों से समय बढ़ाने के लिए पूछ लीजिए।
THE MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF RAILWAYS AND MINISTER OF STATE IN THE MINISTRY OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS (SHRI RAM NAIK): Sir, if you kindly allow me, I will explain the position. When the discussion on the Railways was going on at 4 o'clock many Members wanted to speak. At that time it was decided that more time will have to be given. So, it was decided that we will work up to 7 o'clock. Unfortunately, you were not present in the House at that time.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN (MAVELIKARA): Are you saying that the hon. Speaker has taken the sense of the House?
SHRI RAM NAIK: Yes.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN (MAVELIKARA): Then, it is all right.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Now, I call Dr. T. Subbarami Reddy.
... (Interruptions)
DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY (VISAKHAPATNAM): I am requesting the hon. Speaker to take the sense of the House to extend the time because that is what everybody wants. Why do you not just inform the hon. Members? What everybody wants from the hon. Speaker is to inform the hon. Members that the time of the House has been extended. Even though the leaders have agreed to the same, all the Members feel that they should also give the consent. So, kindly take the sense of the House.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN : If the Minister of Parliamentary Affairs is on record as having said that the hon. Speaker has extended the time up to 7.00 P.M., then it is all right. okay. If it is on not record, then the hon. Minister will be answerable. That is all what I am saying.
DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY : There is nothing wrong in extending the time of the House.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN : I am only saying this much that if the hon. Speaker has extended the time, then it should be on record. If it is not on record, then all this business will become infructuous. You should be careful about this. This is what I am saying. I am only trying to help the Government. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat first.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN : I am only saying this much and I am only trying to help the Government. We want to pass this. But if the time is not extended and if the business is going on, then that business will become null and void.
SHRI SATYA PAL JAIN (CHANDIGARH): It cannot be null and void.
PROF. P.J. KURIEN : Let me say that if it is on record that the time has been extended by the hon. Speaker, then I have no complaint. That is what I want. What I am saying is that it should be done in the usual procedure. If that is not done, then that has to be done and that is what I am saying. It will help you and, therefore, why do you bring the prestige question into this matter?
SHRI MURLI DEORA (MUMBAI SOUTH): You can extend it again. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: When I am on my legs, please sit down and then ask for permission.
SHRI P.C. CHACKO (IDUKKI): How many times do we have to wait? It is a question of privileges of the Members. The sense of the House was not taken and without taking the sense of the House, we are extending time. We are not going to allow it.
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Chacko, please sit down and then ask for permission.
... (Interruptions)
SHRI SATYA PAL JAIN : How many times do we have to agree on this? If the whole House agrees on this, then what is the dispute?
SHRI P.C. CHACKO : Earlier, we have objected at the time of extension. Now, this is not correct. You are allowing a wrong procedure in the House. You are setting a wrong precedent.
MR. SPEAKER: I am on my legs. Please sit down and then ask for permission.
SHRI P.C. CHACKO :You are setting a bad precedent and we are not going to allow that. I tell you that this is not correct. How long do we have to tolerate this? ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Now, I am allowing Shri Chacko.
SHRI P.C. CHACKO : Hon'ble Speaker, Sir, I am very sorry to say that this happened in the morning also. The Members' privileges are sacrosanct. I remember, when Shri Ram Naik was sitting on this side, at the stroke of six o'clock, he used to ask for extension of the time. While extending the time, taking the sense of the House is necessary. You should know that. When Shri Sayeed was sitting in the Chair, I objected over the extension of time. At that time, he said that the sense of the House would be taken at six o'clock. Without extending the time, whatever business has been done after six o'clock will become infructuous. You should know that. Without knowing that and without knowing the implication, you are simply going ahead. It is most unfortunate that such experienced Members are sitting as mute spectators. Hon'ble Speaker, Sir, the time has not been extended. So, please take the sense of the House. You can take the sense of the House and you can extend the time. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI SATYA PAL JAIN : Hon'ble Speaker, Sir, when Dr. Laxminarayan Pandeya was presiding, the House had agreed to extend the time.
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seat.
SHRI SATYA PAL JAIN : Let me clarify.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Jose, you are a former Speaker of the Kerala Assembly. Please take your seat.
SHRI A.C. JOS (MUKUNDAPURAM): Sir, you take the sense of the House.
MR. SPEAKER: I am taking the sense of the House.
SHRI SATYA PAL JAIN : At 4 p.m., when Dr. Laxmi Narayan Panday was presiding, it was agreed that the matter would be clarified.
MR. SPEAKER : Please take your seat first. I am taking the sense of the House.
SHRI SATYA PAL JAIN: The whole House is now agreed to extend the time up to 4 p.m. MR. SPEAKER : Hon. Members, please listen to me. Yesterday you have decided to complete two important Bills.
... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : I am taking the sense of the House. These are the two important Bills. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : You have to complete it and send it to the Rajya Sabha also. That is why, I am asking that two hours' time is required to complete this Bill also. I am taking the sense of the House. It may be extended up to 8 o'clock. Now Dr. T. Subbarami Reddy will speak. SHRI UTTAMRAO DEORAO PATIL (YAVATMAL): What about 377?
MR. SPEAKER : It is laid on the Table.
DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY: I request the hon. Members to give kind cooperation to start the debate on the interim Budget. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Dr. T. Subbarami Reddy to address the Chair, not any hon. Member. ... (Interruptions)
DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY: This is the most important debate. Unless everybody listens, it is not desirable for me to speak. So, let us wait and see what is wrong. Otherwise, what is the use of speaking? ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : Order please.
18.18 hrs. (At this stage, Shri G. M. Banatwalla came and sat on the floor near the Table.) MR. SPEAKER : What do you want?
SHRI G. M. BANATWALLA: I am asking only a clarification. But you do not allow that also. (Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Shri G. M. Banatwalla, in the morning also, I have seen your behaviour. I understand your anxiety. To some extent, it is good. After that, it is not good. Please take your seat. I have observed you in the morning. It is not good. Please take your seat. SHRI G. M. BANATWALLA: I want a clarification.
MR. SPEAKER : It is already announced. It is not good. In the morning also, I observed you. Please go and take your seat. This is not good. You are a senior and respected Member. ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : It is not good. Please go and take your seat.
18.20 hrs. (At this stage, Shri G. M. Banatwalla went back to his seat.
SHRI G. M. BANATWALLA* ... (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER : What is it you are talking? You withdraw that word. It is already announced. What more do you want? SHRI G. M. BANATWALLA: Listen to my question, answer it and finish it. MR. SPEAKER : You please withdraw that word first. What is this?
SHRI G. M. BANATWALLA: I also gave a notice under rule 377.
MR. SPEAKER : First of all, you withdraw that word. It is not good on your part. Please withdraw that word. MR. SPEAKER : First of all, you should withdraw that word. It is not good on your part. Please withdraw that word. SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): Is whatever I said in the well of the House on record? So, how can it be? I am asking a question...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : I have already announced that due to lack of time, all the Matters under Rule 377 have been laid on the Table of the House. SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): That is what I am asking. I was told about the 377s that only the subjects will be taken up and the text will not be taken up. Now, I am asking you this question as to what is laid on the Table of the House. Have you laid only the subject or have you laid our entire text of the 377s on the Table of the House? That is the question I am asking you. But I have not been allowed to ask such a question...(Interruptions)
----------------------------------------------------------------------- * Expunged as ordered by the Chair.
MR. SPEAKER : Shri G.M. Banatwalla, it has already been announced. Please take your seat. ... (Interruptions)
SHRI HARIN PATHAK (AHMEDABAD): The entire text is to be laid on the Table of the House. You are such a senior Member. I hope you know that...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : The entire text of the 377s has been laid on the Table of the House. SHRI G.M.BANATWALLA : That is what I am asking from you. But you have not allowed me to ask that question. MR. SPEAKER : Every time you are doing it. It is not good on your part.
SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA : The last sentence of yours is not good...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Shri Subbarami Reddy, please speak.
SHRI T. SUBBARAMI REDDY : Unless there is some control, how can I speak?...(Interruptions) KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE (CALCUTTA SOUTH): Sir, is he from the Opposition party? SHRI T. SUBBARAMI REDDY : I am representing the prime opposition party to speak on the most valuable, memorable and historical debate. You have to listen to me...(Interruptions) MR. SPEAKER : Shri Subbarami Reddy, you are wasting your time. Please continue. SHRI T. SUBBARAMI REDDY: I do not want to speak unless I am allowed to speak. MR. SPEAKER : Please continue and complete it. Within the time, you must complete it.