Lok Sabha Debates
Reported Move To Conduct A Survey On The Basis Of Religion In Defence Forces. on 17 February, 2006
> Title : Reported move to conduct a survey on the basis of religion in Defence Forces.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI I am grateful to you for permitting me to raise this particular matter. I am referring to the reported communal headcount ordered in respect of the Armed Forces. I am not referring to the other issues to which also I have exception like the appointment of the Justice Sachar Committee itself.
Basically, I believe that poverty, backwardness, etc. are non-sectarian issues and they should not be brought in a sectarian manner. That apart, so far as the communal headcount in the Armed Forces is concerned, I am really surprised how this Government can even conceive of it.
After all, you can see the universal sense of outrage that has been evoked in the whole country, right from the Chiefs of the various Staff – Chief of Army Staff, Chief of Naval Staff, Air Marshall Shri Tyagi, everyone of them – right down to the commonest of the common man and right down to the entire Media in the country. What is the reaction?
Never in independent India has any Government ever thought of it. This UPA Government is the first Government – I do not know whether the allies are in agreement with it – to do it. But basically it is something that should not be viewed as a prestige issue[R2] .
I would appeal to the Defence Minister, the Leader of the House, present here to view it objectively. What is sought to be achieved by this? I see that it is trying to create a database. Why this data base after 58 years? I have seen today, while the Government claims that it has got record but it will not give it to the Sachar Committee, it has got the numbers and the counts but both the Air and Naval Chiefs have denied publicly today that they have not given it. The reaction of Gen. J.J. Singh was very vehement on the very day when the Report had appeared. He said very strongly, " The Army first declines saying this sends wrong signals to the troops who work together". Gen. J.J. Singh said, " It is not the Army's philosophy to maintain such information as per religion. We do not bother where they come from, what their language is or what their religion is". This is the natural and spontaneous reaction. He did not have to think, did not have to consult anyone. I think he as well as the other two Chiefs have taken a bold and correct decision and given a bold and correct response. Therefore, to simply say that our Army is secular and there is no question of any such thing as is being apprehended is not correct.
May I point out that these days there have been books published in America which are pernicious? There is a book written by an American citizen and the thesis is what is the communal composition of the Army in India, because it is the largest coercive force. This is the thesis and he says that because of this kind of Army there is ethnic violence in India, suggesting that because the percentage of minority in the Army is small, therefore, there is anti minority climate in the country. This is the pernicious thesis. I was happy to note because a reference was made.
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE): Could you mention the name of the book?
SHRI L.K. ADVANI I will give it to you in a minute. The name of the book is, 'Khaki and Ethnic Violence in India' and the summary if I were to quote is:
“India's military, paramilitary and the police constitute one of the largest security forces around the globe. Who constitute these forces? What is the ethnic and religious background of these troops? Does the composition of these forces mirror the diversity of Indian society? Have their composition undergone any change since Independence? ” This I regard as a very pernicious thesis and even though formally the Sachar Committee has distanced itself from this American Scholar's book, it has allowed itself to be used as a conduit for such pernicious thesis. This is my charge and when I say this, I have with me an article written by an Ex-Serviceman, a former Colonel, Dr. Anil Athale based in Pune, who expresses concern about this[R3] .
He says:
“This all wise Sachchar Committee has initiated an exercise that is fraught with great danger as it hits at the very notion of fair play.” After all, all our officers in the Army and all our Generals are proud of the fact that when we take people in the Army, we take them on merit.
Though it may be said that some areas have less representation, I belong to Gujarat and I have always pointed out to my friends in Gujarat that Gujarat has a very small percentage in the Army and in the Para-Military Forces also with which I dealt during my period as the Home Minister. I used to ask how many people are there from Gujarat. But that does not mean anything as if there is any discrimination against Gujarat or against States from which representation is small. That way, I would say that we have in the country organisations like say Wipro and Cipla and they may be owned by senior minority people. There may not be a representation of minorities for different reasons. Therefore, this attempt of head count in the Armed Forces is, as has been rightly said, fraught with dangerous implications. Not only that, this particular Army Officer has expressed this kind of misgiving or this kind of apprehension. I think it is a warning. He says:
“Many former and serving soldiers believe that the data collection is the thin end of the wedge of introducing religion or caste based reservations in the Armed Forces also.” Now this is something which disturbs me greatly. Therefore, I wish the Prime Minister were here because the Prime Minister has lent credibility to this communal head count by describing this Committee as the Prime Minister’s high level committee for preparation of a report on the social, economic and educational conditions of the Muslim community in India.
As I said in the beginning, I have objection even to the formation of the Sachar Committee. It should not have been formed. Never before has a Committee of this kind been formed. There is poverty in the country. There is no doubt about it. There is backwardness in the country. There is no doubt about it. All sections of the people must be taken forward and their welfare must be thought of but not in a sectarian manner. My charge against this Government and against the Ruling Party is that all this is being – I can name so many measures taken during the last one and half years – aimed merely at vote bank politics. Vote bank politics has done a lot of damage to the country but to bring in vote bank politics even in the matter of the Armed Forces is something disgraceful. It is something absolutely unacceptable.
Therefore, I would urge the Government to immediately pronounce and tell the Sachar Committee that you should do nothing so far as far as the Armed Forces are concerned. This is my appeal.
MR. SPEAKER: I will try to give opportunity to each Party and those who have given notices. This is a very serious matter. I am not minimising its seriousness. I have allowed the hon. Leader of the Opposition. Now Shri Mahtab.
SHRI B. MAHTAB (CUTTACK): Sir, Justice Sachar Committee is of the opinion that the Military is no different from any other Central Government organisation. This is the cause of disquiet. If that was the case, quotas in proportion to caste, backward classes and other marginalised elements of society would have been introduced in the Armed Forces decades ago. That it did not happen, more as a deliberate policy than by accident, is evidence of the sagacity of the earlier generations of our political leadership. If Justice Sachar Committee interprets that policy as injustice and discrimination against Indian Muslims, its approach to the question of the place of Muslims in the Indian society is flawed. The presumption is insulting, to the ethical and moral principles every soldier adhere to[r4] .
The Indian Armed Forces are emphatically not, and cannot be presumed to be like any other Central Government organisation. Before 1947 the Muslims of undivided country formed 32 per cent of India’s armed forces. In other words, 25 per cent of undivided India’s population formed half of the Armed Forces during that period. But after 1947, even today, we have four regiments, namely, the Sikh regiment, the Kumaon regiment, the Dogra regiment and the Jat regiment and these are more or less named after their relevant communities… (Interruptions) But in the Army all citizens irrespective of any caste or creed or religion are eligible to be part of the Armed Forces… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: This running commentary does not help things. It is not going on record.
SHRI B. MAHTAB : Sir, the minorities trust the Indian Army. The Indian Army has the reputation for being impartial during communal riots and enjoys the confidence of the Muslims. My request is that in the best interest of the country, the Armed Forces should not be politicised. Military is meant to fight and win wars in combat. In combat no soldier can, or should look to see if his partner in the trench or in the foxhole is a co-religionist or not. They do not fight to defend religion, but they fight to defend their people and their national values. Therefore, I would request the Government, through you, not to play with such sentiments. I urge upon the government not to play with fire.
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह अध्यक्ष महोदय, माननीय आडवाणी जी ने बहुत ही अच्छे तरीके से इस सवाल को रखा है। सेना में जाति और धर्म के आधार पर जो सर्वेक्षण का कार्य चलाया जा रहा है, वह गंभीर विषय है। भारतीय सेना पर हम गर्व करते हैं और भारत का रहने वाला एक-एक नागरिक गर्व करता है। जब भी संकट का समय आता है, तो भारतीय सेना के चलते बराबर इस देश में अनेकता और एकता का परिचय सामने आता है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: We are all proud of our Indian Army.
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह ऐसी परिस्थिति में भारतीय सेना में जाति और धर्म के आधार पर सर्वेक्षण कराना, हम मानते हैं कि यह संवेदनशील सवाल है और उसमें विवाद की नींव डाली जा रही है। कहीं ऐसा तो नहीं कि यह किसी साजिश के तहत किया जा रहा है? इसमें कहीं विदेशी साजिश की बू तो नहीं आ रही जो हमारे देश की एकता और अखंडता पर खतरा पहुंचाने के लिए ऐसा कर रही है।
हम इस पर कोई लम्बा भाषण नहीं देना चाहते। हम श्री प्रणब मुखर्जी से सिर्फ एक निवेदन करना चाहते हैं।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: It is an important issue.
श्री प्रभुनाथ सिंह प्रणब मुखर्जी जी, यह निर्णय गलत है, देश के हित में नहीं है। इससे सेना में जाति और धर्म की बू आएगी। जब भीइस देश में जरूरत पड़ी है, चाहे बाहरी हमला हुआ हो, चाहे देश के अंदर खतरा हुआ हो, जब भी सेना का इस्तेमाल किया गया, सेना ने बड़ी ईमानदारी से, निष्पक्ष ढंग से, युद्ध का मैदान हो या किसी देहाती इलाके में कोई साम्प्रदायिक तनाव हो, जातीय तनाव हो, सेना ने निष्पक्षता का परिचय दिया है। ऐसे संगठन के विषय में जाति और धर्म के आधार पर सर्वेक्षण करवाकर आप क्या संदेश देना चाहते cé[R5]।
क्या आप यह संदेश देना चाहते हैं कि सेना भी जाति और धर्म के नाम पर बटे ? क्या आप यह संदेश देना चाहते हैं कि सेना में भी आपसी विवाद फैल जाये ? मैं आपसे निवेदन करूंगा कि इस तरह से सर्वेक्षण को आप वापस लीजिए। आप सोमवार या मंगलवार को बयान देंगे, यह सब बंद करें और आज ही घोषणा करें कि हम इस आदेश को वापस लेते हैं। इससे सेना का सम्मान बढ़ेगा, देश की प्रतिष्ठा बढ़ेगी। हमको भरोसा है कि आप इस मुद्दे को संवेदनशील समझकर जरूर वापस लेंगे।
मोहम्मद सलीम अध्यक्ष महोदय, एक पुरानी कहावत है कि “Where there is a will, there is a way; Where there is no will, there is a survey.” अगर सरकार की मंशा है और मांग भी है कि अल्पसंख्यकों को हर दर्जे में इंसाफ मिले, तो मैं समझता हूं कि उसके लिए इतना बड़ा ढिंढोरा पीटकर सर्वे कराने की कोई जरूरत नहीं है। इस देश की बदनसीबी है कि जब भी कोई इनशिएटिव लेने की बात आती है कि अल्पसंख्यक के साथ इंसाफ किया जाये और उनकी जो जरूरत है, उनको पूरा किया जाये, तो उसे लेकर एक राजनीतिक विवाद खड़ा हो जाता है और उसका साम्प्रदायिक आकलन किया जाता है। इस तरह मामला असल मुद्दे से हटकर दूसरी तरफ बहक जाता है। हम इसका विरोध करते हैं। अभी आडवाणी जी ने इस मामले को विस्तार से रखा लेकिन उन्होंने कहा कि मुझे नहीं मालूम कि ऐसी कोई हाई पावर कमेटी पहले भी बनी है जैसी अभी हाई पावर सच्चर कमेटी बनी है। मैं याद दिलाना चाहता हूं कि १९८० में जब स्वर्गीय श्रीमती इंदिरा गांधी दोबारा प्रधान मंत्री बनी थी, तो उस समय श्री गोपाल सिंह कमेटी बनी थी। The Prime Minister appointed a High Power Committee headed by Shri Gopal Singh to find out the socio-economic conditions of the minorities and suggest remedial measures. वह सर्वे हुआ, रिपोर्ट भी आयी लेकिन उसे आज तक लागू नहीं किया गया। आज तक उसका कार्यान्वयन नहीं हुआ। अगर सरकार चाहे तो उसे आज भी लागू कर सकती है। जब श्री वी.पी.सिंह की सरकार बनी तब यह बात फिर से दोहराई गयी कि उस रिपोर्ट को लागू कर दिया जाये। हमेशा ऐसा हुआ है कि सर्वे तो होता है, लेकिन काम कुछ नहीं होता। अब इस सर्वे में सिर्फ सेनाओं के हैड काउंट हो रहे हैं, तो मैं उसे नहीं मानता। यह गलत है क्योंकि हैड काउंट की कोई जरूरत नहीं है। इसे कम्युनल हैड काउंट का नाम दिया जा रहा है, वह डेलिब्रेटली दिया जा रहा है। आपने ठीक कहा कि हमें भारतीय सेना पर गौरव है। भारत के अल्पसंख्यक जब संकट के समय परेशान होते हैं, जब उनकी जान-माल की हिफाजत नहीं होती, तब वे बोलते हैं कि सेना बुलाओ क्योंकि उन्हें पुलिस और मंत्री पर भरोसा नहीं है। गुजरात के संबंध में हमें यही शिकायत है कि वहां सेना बुलाने में क्यों देर कर दी गयी ? अगर वहां सेना समय पर पहुंच जाती तो गुजरात में इतना कुछ नहीं होता। अब भारतीय सेना के लिए अमरीकी हवाला देने की जरूरत नहीं है। इस देश के १०० करोड़ लोग जानते हैं कि भारतीय सेना कितनी निष्पक्ष है, कितनी देश प्रेमी है।
प्रो. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा अध्यक्ष महोदय, गुजरात में २४ घंटे के अंदर सेना पहुंच गयी थी। …( व्यवधान) Sir, within 24 hours, the Army was there..… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Md. Salim, please conclude now.
… (Interruptions)
मोहम्मद सलीम अध्यक्ष महोदय, असल बात यह है कि हौवा इसलिए खड़ा किया जा रहा है क्योंकि भारतीय जनता पार्टी की अपनी राजनीति स्पष्ट है। वह समझ रही है कि कहीं जाति के आधार पर निम्न वर्ग, ओबीसी, पिछड़े वर्ग या अकलियतों को आरक्षण दे दिया जाये। …( व्यवधान) Please listen to me.
अध्यक्ष महोदय मिस्टर सलीम, आप बोलिये।
...( व्यवधान)
मोहम्मद सलीम वे कहेंगे कि कहीं यह बात तो नहीं कि इस आधार पर उनको कुछ रिजर्वेशन दिया जाये। …( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing else will be recorded except what Md. Salim says.
(Interruptions)* … मोहम्मद सलीम धर्म के आधार पर हम कुछ नहीं चाहते। लेकिन इस देश के अकलियतों को शिक्षा, नौकरी और कारोबार में हक मिले, यह देखने की जिम्मेदारी यूपीए सरकार की है। मेरा निवेदन है कि यहां जो हौवा खड़ा किया जा रहा है, उससे आप अपना कदम पीछे मत हटाइए। आपके कदम अपनी जगह पर ही रहने चाहिए क्योंकि कॉमन मनिमम प्रोग्राम में आपने वायदा किया है कि हम इस देश की अकलियतों को इंसाफ दिलायेंगे।
प्रो. राम गोपाल यादव अध्यक्ष महोदय, माननीय आडवाणी जी ने बहुत महत्वपूर्ण मुद्दे को उठाया है। हम सभी जानते हैं कि भारतीय सेना का असली काम सीमा पर लड़ने का है । हमारी सेना ने जाति और धर्म से ऊपर उठकर इस काम को किया है। ब्रिगेडियर उस्मान से लेकर अब्दुल हमीद यहां हुए हैं। इसलिए कोई अंगुली नहीं उठा सकता कि माइनोरिटी के लोग हों या दूसरे लोग हों, उन्होंने बहुत अच्छा काम नहीं किया। लेकिन यह सच है कि आजाद हिन्दुस्तान में माइनोरिटी की जो रिक्रूटमैंट होनी चाहिए, चाहे पुलिस में हो या सेना में हो, वह नहीं हुइÇ[r6]।चाहे यहां हम कुछ भी कहें लेकिन ये चर्चाएं तो चलती हैं। इसलिए जरुरत इस बात की है कि माइनॉरिटीज के लोगों को भी सेना और पुलिस में भर्ती होने के लिए एनकरेज किया जाना चाहिए। लेकिन वास्तविकता यह है कि जब पुलिस में या सेना में भर्ती होने के लिए माइनॉरिटीज का लड़का जाता है तो उसके साथ रिक्रूटमेंट करने वाले ऑफिसर्स का व्यवहार ठीक नहीं होता है।…( व्यवधान)
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : Sir, this is highly objectionable. … (Interruptions) यह बहुत ही गलत बात कही जा रही है कि उनके साथ व्यवहार ठीक नहीं होता है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: You are not bound by it. He is only giving his views.
… (Interruptions)
* Not Recorded.
प्रो. राम गोपाल यादवसर, इसीलिए मैं इनसे कहता हूं कि मुसलमानों के बारे में अपनी राय बदलिए।…( व्यवधान)
प्रो. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा : आप इस तरह की बात मत कहिए कि मुसलमानों के आप ही शुभचिंतक हैं।…( व्यवधान) सेना में उनके साथ व्यवहार ठीक नहीं होता, यह गलत बात कह रहे हैं।…( व्यवधान)
प्रो. राम गोपाल यादव : यह हो रहा है।
MR. SPEAKER: We should not do or say anything which will affect the performance of the Army. Of course, we are all proud of our Army.
… (Interruptions)
प्रो. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा : आप आर्मी पर इल्जाम मत लगाइए।
प्रो. राम गोपाल यादव : आर्मी पर इल्जाम नहीं लगा रहा हूं लेकिन यह कह रहा हूं कि रिक्रूटमेंट होना चाहिए।…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : ठीक है। हो गया।
…( व्यवधान)
प्रो. राम गोपाल यादव रिक्रूटमेंट होना चाहिए। इससे आप इंकार नहीं कर सकते। रिक्रूटमेंट कम किसके जमाने में हुआ है, यह आप सब लोग जानते हैं। इसलिए यह ढिं़ढोरा पीटकर जो इन्होंने कहा है, यह नहीं होना चाहिए। इसलिए आपके माध्यम से मेरी सरकार से प्रार्थना है कि जिस तरह से माइनॉरिटीज की उपेक्षा पैरा मलिट्री फोर्सेज में या आर्मी में या पुलिस में हो रही है, वह नहीं होनी चाहिए और इसके लिए जिस तरीके से आप चाहें, आप आकलन भले ही करा लें लेकिन उनको न्याय मिलना चाहिए और उनको न्याय मिले, इसके लिए आपको कार्रवाई करनी चाहिए।…( व्यवधान)
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव अध्यक्ष महोदय, यह विषय बहुत ही संवेदनशील है और इस विषय को जिस तरीके से…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: We should always be circumspect in this matter. Considering the importance of the matter, I am giving chance to almost all parties. Please make brief submissions.
… (Interruptions)
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव भारतीय सेना पर हम सब लोगों का गर्व है और मैं समझता हूं कि बहस को बड़े ही संजीदा तरीके से कुछ माननीय सदस्यों ने रखा है और मैं इस बात से सहमत हूं जो मोहम्मद सलीम साहब ने कहा है कि इसको बड़े तरीके से करने की जरूरत है। जब भी इस देश में अल्पसंख्यक की बात होती है या ओबीसी की बात होती है या पिछड़े वर्ग की बात होती है या सामाजिक संतुलन की बात होती है या सेना में या पुलिस में भर्ती होने की बात होती है तो कुछ लोगों को पेट में दर्द होने लगता है और इस पेट में दर्द होने से राष्ट्र मजबूत नहीं होगा बल्कि इससे राष्ट्र कमज़ोर होता है। क्या अब्दुल हमीद की राष्ट्र भक्ति पर कोई प्रश्न उठा सकते हैं ? …( व्यवधान) बल्कि हमारी सेना की छाती गर्व से ऊपर उठ जाती है।…( व्यवधान)
श्री राजीव रंजन सिंह ‘ललन’ आप उठा रहे हैं और तो कोई नहीं उठा रहा है।
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव आप लोग उठा रहे हैं।…( व्यवधान) अल्पसंख्यकों को न्याय मिले, क्या आप यह चाहते हैं? आप यह नहीं चाहते हैं। आप लोगों का नज़रिया समूचे देश के सामने है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Hon. Members, please take your seats.
… (Interruptions)
श्री राजीव रंजन सिंह ‘ललन’ :क्या आप चाहते हैं कि सेना धर्म के आधार पर बंट जाएं ?
SHRI UDAY SINGH (PURNEA): Sir, this should not be allowed. … (Interruptions)
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : कभी भी सेना धर्म या जाति के आधार पर नहीं बंट सकती।…( व्यवधान)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : अब आप जल्दी खत्म कीजिए।
प्रो. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा : ...* आप कहते हैं कि आर्मी के बारे में हम ऐसा सोचते हैं, यह सही नहीं है, इस तरह की बातें नहीं होनी चाहिए।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Malhotraji, nobody can.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: You have made your point.
* Expunged as ordered by the Chair श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : सिर्फ बातों से कुछ नहीं होगा, दिल को चौड़ा करना होगा।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude. आप बैठिए।
…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: It is very unfortunate. Very brief submission to be made.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: If there is anything unparliamentary or improper, I shall certainly look into it.
… (Interruptions)
अध्यक्ष महोदय :आप जल्दी खत्म करें। Do not interrupt me.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: No, I will not allow it.
… (Interruptions)
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : वह अब्दुल हमीद ही था, जिसने पाकिस्तानी टैंकों को तोड़ने का काम किया था और हिन्दुस्तान की सेना का मान-सम्मान, मनोबल बढ़ाने का काम किया था।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Please conclude now.
… (Interruptions)
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : हमारे देश की सेना न तो जाति के आधार पर काम करती है, न साम्प्रदायिक आधार पर काम करती है और न ही धर्म के आधार पर काम करती है। लेकिन ये जिस तरह से बहस को दिशा देना चाहते हैं, उसमें राजनीति की बू आ रही है। आपकी बातों से वोट बैंक बनाने की बू आ रही है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Okay.
Shri Gurudas Dasgupta.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Now, take your seat. Please take your seat.
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : इसलिए ऐसे संवेदनशील मुद्दों पर राजनीति नहीं होनी चाहिए। इस देश के जो अल्पसंख्यक हैं, जो पिछड़ा वर्ग है, उन्हें सामाजिक संतुलन के आधार पर देखा जाना चाहिए और राष्ट्र की मुख्य धारा से जोड़ना चाहिए।
MR. SPEAKER: You have made your point.
Shri Gurudas Dasgupta.
… (Interruptions)
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : यदि इसके लिए कोई पालिसी बनाना जरूरी हो, तो वह बनाकर उन्हें राष्ट्र की मुख्य धारा से जोड़ा जाए, जिससे अल्पसंख्यकों को इंसाफ मिले और उनका प्रतनधित्व हर जगह हो, तब यह सवाल ही नहीं उठेगा।
अध्यक्ष महोदय : ठीक है, अब अपनी बात समाप्त करें। Do not enlarge this scope.
… (Interruptions)
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : हमारे देश में जनगणना होती है, वह जाति के आधार पर भी होती है। इस देश में मर्दुमशुमारी में सभी वर्गों और धर्मों के बारे में जनगणना होती है।…( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Mr. Uday Singh, I expect from you an exemplary behaviour.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Very well, I will see, if anything is unparliamentary. I cannot even listen. You just go on making running commentary.
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : अगर अल्पसंख्यकों के बारे में मालूमात करने के लिए कोई प्रयास किया जा रहा है तो उसका ढिंढोरा नहीं पीटा जाना चाहिए।
MR. SPEAKER: Nothing more.
Now, Shri Gurudas Dasgupta.
श्री देवेन्द्र प्रसाद यादव : राष्ट्र के लिए अक्लियत के जिन लोगों ने काम किया है, आजादी की लड़ाई से लेकर पाकिस्तान के साथ मुकाबला करने तक का काम किया है, उन्हें हमें भूलना नहीं चाहिए।
SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA (PANSKURA): Mr. Speaker, Sir, … (Interruptions)
श्री राजीव रंजन सिंह 'ललन' : अध्यक्ष महोदय, इसी विषय पर मैंने भी एक नोटिस दिया है।
अध्यक्ष महोदय : आप बैठिए। मैं एक-एक करके बुलाऊंगा। अभी आपके लीडर को मौका दिया था।
श्री राजीव रंजन सिंह 'ललन' : मैंने सुबह आठ बजे नोटिस दिया था।
MR. SPEAKER: It is very unfortunate. You have no patience. जो समय बर्बाद हो गया, उसका सदुपयोग करके सबको मौका दिया जा सकता था। अब भी अगर आप समय बर्बाद करेंगे और बोलना भी चाहेंगे, Give the opportunity to conduct the House.
… (Interruptions)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : मैं किसी को बोलने से मना नहीं करता। जिन्होंने नोटिस दिया है, सबको एक-एक करके बुलाऊंगा।
SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA Mr. Speaker, Sir, we are not in favour of any method which gives rise to a suspicion that there is an attempt to induct communal environment in the glorious Indian Army. We are not in favour of it. While saying so, I must compliment my senior friend, Mr. Advaniji because he has found time to speak on communalism. I compliment him because he finds that the communalism is a danger in the country. I also compliment Mr. Advanji because he is taking exception to a book published in his very dear country, that is America.… (Interruptions)
अध्यक्ष महोदय : इस बात को छोड़िए।
SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : This is an important fact. … (Interruptions) Sir, it is very important. It is good that you have become anti-American[mks7] .
It is very good that we find anti-American friends across the House. It is very good.
श्री लाल कृष्ण आडवाणी हमारे लिए भारत सर्वोपरि है और कोई देश नहीं है। …( व्यवधान) हम कंसिस्टेंटली एंटी रशिया भी नहीं हैं, एंटी चाइना भी नहीं हैं। हम एक ही देश हैं, देश के हित ही हमारे लिए सब कुछ हैं। …( व्यवधान) अभी वह ईरान का समर्थन करे, रशिया और चाइना …( व्यवधान)
SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : Even after Russia and China supports Iran, we oppose this. We will be opposing it in our response to it.… (Interruptions) As I said, we will be opposing it. Do not worry about it. My point is very simple. Minorities should have more representation in different branches of Indian Administration, in Police, in Military and everywhere.… (Interruptions)
SHRI UDAY SINGH (PURNEA): Why?… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: What is happening to you? आप पहले दिन ही ऐसे शुरू करेंगे, तो आगे कैसे काम चलेगा।आप थोड़ा शांत हो जाइए।आप इतना अर्टीक्युलेट हैं।
SHRI GURUDAS DASGUPTA : But headcount is unnecessary because there is service record. In Military, in Administration and everywhere, there is a service record for every individual who is there in the Administration. Therefore, to have a Committee and to go for a survey is absolutely wrong. I feel the purpose of a glorious cause cannot be met by an inglorious method. The method is absolutely wrong. We do not accept it. While upholding the glorious role of the Army, we feel nothing should be done outside, in this House from this side or that side, which affects the morale of the glorious Indian Army.
श्री चंद्रकांत खैरे अध्यक्ष महोदय, सुरक्षा बलों में सांप्रदायिकता के आधार पर यानी अल्पसंख्यकों के नाम पर मुसलमानों का सर्वेक्षण किये जाने के खिलाफ शिवसेना की ओर से मैं खड़ा हुआ हूं।आदरणीय आडवाणी जी ने बहुत अच्छी तरह से इस मुद्दे को रखा है। मैं उनका समर्थन करता हूं। यूपीए सरकार सर्वेक्षण का मुद्दा आरक्षण के माध्यम से लाना चाहती है, उसका हम कड़ा विरोध करते हैं। यहां बताया गया, सुरक्षा बलों में जो भी सम्माननीय वीर हुए हैं, उनमें अब्दुल हमीद जी हैं, उनका हम बहुत सम्मान करते हैं। शिवसेना की ओर से श्री बाला साहब ठाकरे जी ने मुंबई में उनका सम्मान किया था। उनके विचारों का हम सम्मान करते हैं। लेकिन सुरक्षा बलों के बारे में ऐसा करने से हमें चिंता हो रही है और हम लोग इसका कड़ा विरोध करते हैं कि यूपीए सरकार ऐसा सर्वेक्षण करवा रही है, उन्हें अपना यह विचार वापस लेना चाहिए। मैं इस बात के लिए मांग करता हूं। अध्यक्ष जी, अभी उन्होंने कहा है कि हम आरक्षण का विरोध करेंगे। वे ऐसा किस बारे में करेंगे? सिख समाज के बारे में आज किसी ने नहीं कहा। अल्पसंख्यकों में सबसे ज्यादा सुरक्षा बल तो सिख समाज का है, उन्होंने देश के लिए बहुत कुर्बानी दी है, उनके बारे में किसी ने नहीं कहा। अगर जानबूझकर मुसलमानों के बारे में ऐसा किया गया, तो हम इसका कड़ा विरोध करते हैं। हम इसके लिए आपके माध्यम से केंद्र सरकार से मांग करते हैं कि यह अपना विचार बदले और देश में सांप्रदायिकता को आगे ज्यादा बढ़ावा न दे।
MR. SPEAKER Dr. M. Jagannath – not here. Ms. Mehbooba Mufti.
MS. MEHBOOBA MUFTI Hon. Speaker, Sir, I belong to a State जिसे मिनी इंडिया कहा जाता है। अगर आप हमारे यहां देखें तो हमारा चीफ सेक्रेटरी कश्मीरी पंडित, डीजी नान मुस्लिम, आईजी और अन्य यानी जितने भी लोग हैं, इसके बावजूद वहां मुस्लिम मेजोरिटी बनी हुयी है। Look at the whole country[c8] .
मुझे लगता है कि आप सब अच्छी तरह से जानते हैं कि यह केवल सेना की बात नहीं है। पूरी कंट्री में माइनॉरिटीज का रिप्रैंजेंटेशन एक या दो परसैंट है। इसमें कोई शक नहीं हैं कि सेना ने बहुत सी जंग लड़ी हैं और वह हमेशा कामयाब हुई है। आप इस वक्त पूरी दुनिया में देखेंगे कि चैलेंजेस बाहर के नही हैं। The violence and the terrorism is eating into the vitals of the whole world. अमेरिका जो एक मजबूत मुल्क माना जाता है, वह इस वक्त सबसे ज्यादा इनसिक्योर ओसामा बिन लादेन की वजह से है। If you go at the root of the problem ओसामा बिन लादेन जैसे लोग किस की क्रिएशन हैं? वह इनजस्टिस की क्रिएशन है। अनफॉरच्यूनेटली उसका नाम मुसलमान है। I would say ‘unfortunately.’ इसकी वजह यह है कि हमारी कंट्री में इस वक्त इनसर्जेंसी या वॉयलेंस है या नक्सलाइट हैं या नॉर्थ ईस्ट और जम्मू-कश्मीर की प्रॉबलम है। यह बाहर की प्राबलम नहीं है। मे बी कहीं-कहीं एक्सट्रनल डाइमैंशन भी होगा लेकिन basically it is a problem of injustice. I would congratulate the UPA Government. They have hit the nail on the head. They have started from somewhere. जो इनफर्मेशन मिलेगी that information itself will justify, why we are doing that. Why they are so scared of the information? Let the information come. जो इनजस्टिस हुआ है और इस वक्त पूरी दुनिया में वॉयलेंस के खिलाफ एक जंग हो रही है। …( व्यवधान)
प्रो. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा यह गलत बात कह रही हैं। …( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: She has not said that.
… (Interruptions)
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : Basically, she is condemning our army… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: She has given her party’s view. It is not binding on anybody.
… (Interruptions)
सुश्री महबूबा मुफ्ती : अगर हम अपनी कंट्री में पीस, प्रॉसपैरिटी चाहते हैं, सोसायटी के हर सैक्शन और हर धर्म के लोगों को , we have to give them a part to play. We have to give them their share. आडवाणी जी सही कह रहे हैं कि बहुत देर हो गई है। We are already too late. What has not been done in 58 years, अब होना जरूरी है, लाजमी है। अगर हम पूरी दुनिया में वॉयलेंस को कंट्रोल करना चाहते हैं let our country take the lead. Thank you very much.
MR. SPEAKER: Shri Bir Singh Mahato, please be very brief.
SHRI BIR SINGH MAHATO Sir, this is a very sensitive issue. The Indian Army has enjoyed confidence of all sections of the people. Armed Forces should not be communalised in any form. Hence, we are proud of the Armed Forces and there should not be any reservation on the basis of language, region, caste and creed. Gujarat was controlled due to the timely intervention of the Armed Forces. Therefore, Sir, communal head count should be stopped. Thank you.
MR. SPEAKER: Dr. Jagannath. You should have been here in time.
DR. M. JAGANNATH I am sorry, Sir.
It is unfortunate that in our country the employment opportunities or recruitment provided to the minority communities are not adequate. Whatever may be the reason, this practice of not recruiting the minority communities into the Army or paramilitary services is not correct. Steps should be taken that their sentiments are respected. They should be part and parcel of this country. Adequate measures should be taken to see that they get adequate number of their people in the recruitment.
श्री इलियास आज़मी अध्यक्ष महोदय, जिस मुद्दे की बात हो रही है, वह एकदम सीधा-सादा मुद्दा है। किसी की नीयत सेना में भेदभाव पैदा करने की नहीं है। इन्नमल आमाल बिन नियात। जो काम होता है, उसमें नीयत क्या है, वह देखी जाती है। किसी की यह नीयत नहीं है कि सेना में कोई भेदभाव हो। नीयत यह है कि समाज के जिन तबकों के साथ हजारों साल से अन्याय होता रहा या पिछले ६० सालों से अन्याय हो रहा है, उन्हें इंसाफ दिया जाए। …( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: You are not bound by his statement.
… (Interruptions)
श्री इलियास आज़मी मैं पूरी बहस के लिए तैयार हूं। आप मेरी बात सुन लीजिए और उसे सुनने का हौसला पैदा BÉEÉÒÉÊVÉA[R9]।
MR. SPEAKER: Nobody can affect the Indian Army.
श्री इलियास आज़मी आप में सुनने का हौसला नहीं है। मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि समाज में सारे तबके और सारे वर्ग जो चिन्हित हैं, जो हजारों सालो से चिन्हित हैं या पिछले चालीस सालों से चिन्हित हैं, उन सबको आबादी के अनुपात में हर मैदान में बराबर प्रतनधित्व मिलना चाहिए। मैं आरक्षण की बात नहीं कहता लेकिन उन्हें प्रतनधित्व मिलना चाहिए। यह देखना जरूरी है कि वे कौन से सूबे हैं, वे कौन सी जगह हैं जहां किसी वर्ग के साथ अन्याय होता रहा है। इसमें कोई छिपाव नहीं है अगर गिनती हुई तो साबित हो जाएगा कि हिन्दुस्तान में १३ परसेंट मुसलमान हैं और सेना में एक-डेढ़ परसेंट से ज्यादा नहीं हैं। उसकी तराफी करने के लिए यह बिल्कुल होना चाहिए। कुछ फिरकापरस्त दिमाग के लोग यह चाहते हैं कि जिन्हें हमेशा जूते के नीचे दबा कर रखा है, वे जूते के नीचे से निकलने न पाएं। यह फासिज्म है, फासिस्ट सोच है, इस पर राष्ट्रीयता का लेबल लगाकर फासिज्म को उजागर करना चाहते हैं।
MR. SPEAKER: I am only making an exception in favour of Maj. Gen. Khanduri because of his background, but I request him to be very brief.
MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B. C. KHANDURI Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have requested a favour from you and I am speaking here as an Ex-Army person, not as a politician.
MR. SPEAKER: That is why I have called you.
MAJ. GEN. (RETD.) B. C. KHANDURI Sir, I want to convey to the House my immense pain and personal hurt feelings on this whole issue that is going on in the country.
Sir, I have spent 38 years in the Army and some of the remarks that have been passed here are very much amazing and damaging. The only reason I can think of is that such people and such politicians have no clue about what happens in the Armed Forces. They have no idea as to how they live. They have no idea as to how they stay together there. They are passing remarks that रिक्रूटमेंट में ठीक से बर्ताव नहीं है। Casting that sort of aspersion on the Army is not correct. The three Chiefs are themselves saying that this is not correct. Are they politicians? Have the three Chiefs got any political agenda? Are they communalists? When they are saying something, please listen to them at least.
Sir, Members are making irresponsible statements here. The whole world is seeing us because we have got a 24-hours Lok Sabha television channel now and so everybody is listening to us. I plead to all of you not to get into this sort of politics. It is not good. It is not even good for those who are making such statements.
Sir, people in the Army know what is happening, Muslims or other communities in the Army know what is happening. If you have no faith, you should have listened to Maj. Gen. Asif Karim who came on television and said that what we are trying to say here today, is not correct. He is not a politician. He is not from the majority community, but he is saying this and please listen to him. It is hurting and it is causing immense damage to the Army. I would suggest to such people that before they make such statements, they should, at least, check up with some of their relatives if they are in the Armed Forces. The trouble is that most of the people have no clue because they do not send their children to the Armed Forces. They just talk outside in thin air.
When I was the Commanding Officer at a very young age, I had a Mandir, Masjid and Gurudwara in one room. There was never any problem. They all used to go there and pray. But if it is left to us politicians, we will make them fight. It is not good. Please don’t do it. You are damaging the morale of the Army.
As far as the present issue is concerned, the hon. Defence Minister has said that they are not going to send it to Sachar Committee. But I would like to submit to him that sometimes the end may be alright, but the means also matter and this time, I think, the means are not correct and please don’t do it. Some things are unknown to them, but now you are trying to poke that thing and make them alive about this issue which is not good.
My last point is that if he has any doubt that we are trying to make politics here, I would request him to call all the officers and men who served in the Armed Forces and who are in his party now. Even in Parliament there are some persons. Let him call them together and listen to them. Are they talking on political lines? I do not think anybody is talking like that. Therefore, my humble request as a soldier, as an Ex-Serviceman is, kindly don’t let this get out of control any more.
Sir, I thank you very much for giving me this opportunity[k10] .
THE MINISTER OF DEFENCE (SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE) Mr. Speaker Sir, at the very outset, I would like to express my gratitude to the hon. Members who have made their observations. Without any exception everybody has appreciated the role which the Indian Army has played since its inception, but we are particularly concerned with its role since Independence. The Indian Army is basically professional, apolitical, secular and the most disciplined force that we have today. It is not only the second largest in number, but even in its long tradition of saga and sacrifice, it is second to none.
Sir, three issues have emerged from the observations of various hon. Members and I do appreciate that most of the hon. Members have pointed out that this secular, apolitical, professional character of the Indian Armed Forces should not be compromised. I can assure them that there is no question of compromising the character of the Indian Armed Forces. At the same time, let us not be carried by emotions.
A particular phrase has been chosen, that is, ‘Communal Head Count’. I do not know from where this phrase has come. I have the entire terms of reference of the Sachar Committee and I do not find this particular phrase anywhere in the terms of reference. What is the terms of reference of Sachar Committee?
प्रो. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा टम्र्स ऑफ रेफरेन्स सच्चर कमेटी का था …( व्यवधान) उसमें सर्वेक्षण हो रहा है या नहीं हो रहा है, यह बतायें। …( व्यवधान)
MR. SPEAKER: Let him reply.
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, most respectfully, I would like to submit to Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra that he is too senior to indulge in these types of frivolities… (Interruptions)
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : Sir, the Sachar Committee reference is not there… (Interruptions)
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, I have just started. I would request Shri Malhotra to have patience. What I am trying to point out is that Shri Advani raised the issue, ‘why this committee’. I, on behalf of the Government, owe an explanation to him, to the Leader of the Opposition, to the Leaders of the whole House on the issue of ‘why this Committee’.
This Committee was set up because we are fully aware of the number of Muslim population and the state of affairs. What was the reason for setting up of a committee? There is a lack of authentic, comprehensive and updated information about the economic, educational status of the Muslim community of India. Therefore, it was suggested that the committee which was set up on 9th March 2005 under the Chairmanship of Shri Rajender Sachar, Retired Chief Justice of Delhi High Court, should also look into this. What was its job? What was its mandate? It was mandated to obtain relevant information from Departments and agencies of the Central Government, State Governments and also conduct an intensive literature survey to identify, publish data, articles, research on relative social, economic and educational status of the Muslims of India at the State, regional and district levels to address to the reasons of backwardness and to formulate appropriate policy to intervene as and when it is necessary. Is something wrong there?
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : Sir, only asking for Muslim community and not others… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: He did not interrupt anybody. Please take your seat.
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Sir, I am sorry, I cannot be dictated in speaking the terms of Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra. Please allow me to speak on my own terms… (Interruptions)
MD. SALIM : He must not.
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Therefore, the committee has a very broad, wide spectrum of the entire administration[r11] .
13.00 hrs. They have sent questionnaires to a large number of Government Departments and Ministries. Now, the question comes as to what would be the response. I do not know why the Leader of the Opposition was so agitated. He read the statement of the Chief of the Army Staff. Most respectfully I would submit that as senior Parliamentarians they should know that we should refer the official designation but we never mention the name. Prof. Malhotra in his anxiety went to the extent of suggesting that they…* MR. SPEAKER: No reference can be made to the President.
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: It is not fair. It is discourtesy to the highest person in the Government. Please do not indulge in that.
MR. SPEAKER: I have deleted that already.
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: You have deleted it, it is fine. It is not proper. We also supported him. He was the unanimous choice of the nation. Therefore, it should not be brought in.
SHRI BRAJA KISHORE TRIPATHY (PURI): This portion also should be deleted.
MR. SPEAKER: That has already been deleted.
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: It should not be brought in. Do not indulge in these things. The point which I am trying to drive at is this. The Chief of the Army Staff has been quoted and the Chief of the Air Staff has been quoted. Then you could have shared the same information without naming them. This is the * Not Recorded.
normal parliamentary practice. What have we stated? What the Chief of the Army Staff has stated and what as the Defence Minister I have stated? I have stated that Indian Army does not maintain these types of statistics. There was some information available in the Navy and Air Force that has been given to them. Indian Army has stated that they do not have this type of information available and nobody has asked them that they do this or do that.
Let me explain what is the process of recruitment. The process of recruitment is to ensure that we do not indulge the recruitment on the basis of religion, caste, sex and region. Therefore, a formula has been evolved. Maj. Gen. B. C. Khanduri is well-versed with this procedure. He could have spoken to his colleagues. The formula has been evolved on the basis of the overall requirement in a year and the overall male population of the country. On the basis of that, a formula is being evolved by making the divisions and multiples, and the State is given quota. When the recruitment takes place, recruitment rally takes place, there we do not ask in what language they speak and what religion they practise. There are certain standard prescribed qualifications. If they satisfy those prescribed qualifications depending on the number, we recruit them. We keep in view that there should be more and more representations from different areas. If we find that in certain areas adequate number of people are not coming, sometimes we have the special recruitment drive to ensure that more and more people come. On the floor of this House I have shared that information. Keeping in view the requirement of certain areas, not only in the Army but also in other special paramilitary forces, special security forces, sometimes we raise battalions. For instance, seven battalions have been raised in Territorial Army, one exclusively for Jammu and Kashmir, one exclusively for Assam and one exclusively for Manipur keeping in view their status. Since 1950, not today, the nomenclature in terms of region or in terms of race has been completely avoided. Many a times it is asked: “You are a Defence Minister from Bengal. Why the Bengal Regiment of 1768 cannot be revived? Maratha Light Infantry is there.” Maj. Gen. Khanduri must be knowing the Bengal Lancer as to why it cannot be raised. It was there from the historic days.
MR. SPEAKER: Then why can it not be raised?
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: From 1950, we have completely stopped this practice to retain the All-India character of the ArmedForces. [r12] That all India character is this. Many of you may be aware of that. I share that piece of information. In my room I have kept the bough of a soldier. What is the soldier saying? He says, “I am a soldier. I have one commitment and that commitment is to my country. I have only one prayer to God and that prayer to God is that I can fulfil my commitment. I can lay down my life for the cause of my country.” There is no question of religion, there is no question of caste and there is no question of any other community. Surely nobody is fool enough to go and disturb this glorious tradition. We are proud of it and we are retaining it. But at the same time, you will have to keep in mind that such a Commission has been appointed to make a socio-economic survey, to help a large chunk of population because various legislations have been made to address different sectors, and in certain areas it will have to be addressed and it will have to be looked into. Without adequate data, without adequate data base and without adequate information, how could you have that?
Shri Advani has referred to some American thesis. It is no longer very unfamiliar to us. Many a times it has come. Very recently we have seen a debate on certain writings by some European writers. Some wanted to have a debate in Parliament also. The House had a debate on the writing of Monyhan. But, I think, we are mature enough not to take this type of writing so seriously and we should ignore it because it deserves nothing but ignorance with some sort of impunity. It is not a fact if somebody comes with the thesis that the Indian Armed Forces are the biggest coercive forces. I totally refute that type of observations, that type of definition. The Indian Armed Forced have established all over the world that they are the biggest humanitarian forces. At the time of natural disasters, whether it is Tsunami, whether it is avalanche or whether it is floods or earthquake, you will find first the person from the Indian Armed Forces, whether it is the Navy person or whether it is the Air Force person or whether it is the Army person to rescue the people. Therefore, that is not a coercive force. That is not the character of Indian Army. We will like to retain that character of the Forces. I can assure you that this is the position which we have stated. I have stated this outside the House because the House started from yesterday. I have stated before camera. And what Chief of the Army Staff, Chief of the Air Staff and Chief of the Naval Staff have stated, there is no contradiction in that. We are one and our approaches are the same. The apolitical, secular and professional character of the Indian Armed Forces will be retained. This is an object of our pride. Thank you, Sir.… (Interruptions)
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : He must categorically say whether the headcount of Muslims in the Army is being called or not. … (Interruptions)
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: I have stated that there is no system of head counting on the basis of race, caste or religion. … (Interruptions)
PROF. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : They have already asked for it. Then, you say so. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: He has said that. He has agreed with the observations of the Chief. … (Interruptions)
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: How many times I will say, Prof. Malhotra? … (Interruptions) I have stated the character. … (Interruptions) Please do not put words in my mouth. I have stated it and I am repeating that the character of the Indian Armed Forces as it is today will be retained. … (Interruptions) You are indulging in politics, you are communalising politics. … (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI : Sir, as I said in the beginning, I regard … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats. Please sit down.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI L.K. ADVANI : Mr. Speaker, Sir, I object to the formation of the Sachar Committee itself and I regard it as pursuance of vote bank politics. … (Interruptions[lh13] ) SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE : You are doing vote bank politics. We are not doing vote bank politics. Mr. Advani, you are doing vote bank politics. Starting from Ram Shila to the demolition of the mosque, you are responsible for bringing vote bank politics in this country. … (Interruptions) If any Party is responsible for vote bank politics, it is the Party of BJP, it is the Party of Shri L.K. Advani, which is responsible. … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: Let us hear him just one minute more.
… (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: What is this? You please take your seat.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI : The Sachar Committee has been asked to assess the economic and social conditions of the Muslim community, and in pursuance of that, they have put questions to various Departments of the Government of India. I would be happy if the Committee is scrapped itself but, at least, so far as the Army is concerned, these questions should not be addressed to the Army at all. This is my submission.
Even now if you withdraw all the questions and then let the Sachar Committee do what it wants about the rest of the Government, I would not put it in this manner. But you must respect the sentiments of the entire fauji community. You must respect the views of the entire country.
SHRI PRANAB MUKHERJEE: Fauji community is with the Defence Minister and not with the Leader of the Opposition.
SHRI L.K. ADVANI : Therefore, the Chief of Army Staff and others protested against it. We also protest against the Government and, therefore, we walk out.
13.09 hrs. (At this stage, Shri L.K. Advani and some other hon. Members left the House.) … (Interruptions)
MR. SPEAKER: The House stands adjourned to meet again at 2.15 p.m. 13.10 hrs. The Lok Sabha then adjourned for Lunch till fifteen minutes past Fourteen of the Clock.