Lok Sabha Debates
Discussion Regarding Atrocities On Linguistic And Religious Minorities In The ... on 17 August, 2000
16.00 hrs, Title: Discussion regarding atrocities on linguistic and religious minorities in the country.(Not concluded) MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, we will take up discussion under Rule 193, namely, atrocities on linguistic and religious minorities in the country.
SHRI MOINUL HASSAN (MURSHIDABAD): Respected Chairman, Sir, I am very grateful to you that you have given me chance to initiate this discussion under Rule 193. Actually, we are discussing about a very sensitive issue. This is an issue which is a threat, I suppose, to our identity. This is an issue which is a threat to our traditional tolerance. This is an issue which is ultimately a threat to our secular concept.
Before going into the details of the discussion, I would like to recall from my memory that in the second half of the Budget Session, this issue had come up. One of our friends had raised the issue in Zero Hour after a brutal attack on Christian community in U.P. My friend, an hon. Member of Parliament is one of the partners in the Government of National Democratic Alliance. Then, Shri Madhavrao Scindia, Shri Somnath Chatterjee and other senior leaders of the House intervened. Then, the Government reacted. Our friend, the Minister for Parliamentary Affairs, Shri Pramod Mahajan had told this at that time:
"Our Government’s top priority is to fully protect the minorities wherever they are. To accord protection to the minorities is a constitutional duty of the Centre and the State Governments, regardless of which Party is in power.
I would request the Home Minister, Shri L.K. Advani to hold talk with the Chief Ministers of the States concerned to prevent recurrence of such trends.
I endorse Shri Scindia’s proposal for a meeting of the National Integration Council to evolve a political consensus against fanatics on all sides. I would convey his suggestion to the Prime Minister."
Sir, everybody knows that it was an assurance given before the House. Not only was it given before the House, it was an assurance given to the nation. After the assurance, what is happening throughout the country? Sir, this assurance was given on 23rd or 24th April this year. I would like to mention that after this assurance, on April 25th, two nuns were hit by a scooterist in Rewari, Haryana. I am not going through the entire chronology of the incidents, but I must say that on May 2nd, masked men assaulted nuns at a Convent in Jhansi, U.P., on May 3rd, a Christian group was beaten up in Dang, Gujarat, on May 3, there was break-in at Church at Sagarpur, Delhi and on May 6th, Bajrang Dal men beat up Christians in Ahmedabad, Gujarat. It is not that these incidents took place in April or May only, these are continuously taking place in every part of the country and the minority people are attacked by the extremists who are trying to denationalise these insignificant minorities which are only 2.5 per cent or 2.6 per cent of the total population of our country.
Sir, again, I would like to mention that the All India Christian Council claimed that over 300 incidents have taken place, which have affected Christians and Christian institutions, in different parts of the country in the last two years. Who in the Government are responsible for these incidents?
It is very much unfortunate, and it is an unchallengeable fact, that the number of incidents has gone up after the BJP-led NDA Government came to power in the country. In this context, I would like to say that the Government must realise its obligation, and it must be honoured in deed as well.
In the Twelfth Lok Sabha, there was a discussion under Rule 193 on the same subject. When our friend, Shri Arif Mohammed Khan, raised a question, the hon. Home Minister, while replying, mentioned that no major incident had taken place in his tenure.
From the last report of his Ministry, for the year 1999-2000, I would like to quote a few lines. The same thing was mentioned there also. It says:
"There was no major onslaught on maintenance of communal harmony in the country as a whole. Tension between the Hindus and the Christians, following the incidents directed against the Christian community and their institutions, in certain areas of some States, did vitiate the law and order scenario in those parts of the country."
In this context, in this august House, I would like to refer to the reply of our Minister of State to the Starred Question on 25th July, 2000. The question referred to the """"effect on Christians and their institutions"""". What was the reply of our Minister? As per the reply, the number of incidents in 1998 was 86; in 1999, it was 120, and in 2000, up to 5th June, it was 100. So far as the number of killings is concerned, in 1998, it was 3; in 1999, it was 17, and in 2000, it was 7. So far as the number of injured persons is concerned, in 1998, it was 45; in 1999, it was 91, and in 2000, up to 5th June, it was 90. Do you know who is at the top of the list? Gujarat is at the top of the list. Which was the Government which was in power in the State? Everybody knows that it was the Bharatiya Janata Party Government. They are trying to establish the so-called Hindu Rashtra by attacking other religions; they are impatient. I would like to ask our hon. Home Minister whether these are major incidents or not.
So far as communal incidents are concerned, the biggest State in the country, that is, Uttar Pradesh is the number one in the list. In 1998, the number of incidents was 109; the number of killings was 41, and the number of injured was 344.
The incidents of communal violence in the year 1999 was 104. Thirty-three people were killed and 346 people were injured. Till May, 2000, the number of incidents of communal violence was 43. The number of persons killed were 7 and number of persons injured were 132. Which Party is in power in the State? It is the Bhartiya Janata Party. Besides this, I would also like to mention about the incidents of communal violence in two to three other States.
First, let us take the case of Kerala. There is a sizeable population of the Christian community in that State. But these types of atrocities are not taking place there. This is according to the document supplied by the Government of India. At least we are not aware of such incidents through the media.
Let us now turn to the North-Eastern States. No such atrocities are taking place there as well. The Christian population is dominant in most of the States of the North-Eastern region. It is, perhaps, because the Christian community there are in a majority. They, perhaps, are more organised and united and has been able to prevent these types of happenings. But I am sure, they are in fear; they are not confident about their future.
Sir, you are aware as to what happened in the Jamia Millia Islamia University. I suppose most of the hon. Members present here are aware of this University. It is a dignified, secular and traditional University in our country. This University, all the time, is promoting secular and democratic ideals of India. What happened there on the 9th of April, 2000? Totally unprovoked policemen entered into the SRK hostel of that University and beat up the students indiscriminately. Sixty-six students were beaten up brutally. Out of the 66 students beaten up, 18 were left with fractured hands and wrists; and 12 were left with fractured legs. Even the Imam of the Mosque was not spared. The total hostel was ransacked. What was the motive behind this incident? Some people are trying to establish that the Jamia Millia Islamia is a Muslim University. It is totally a baseless and an incorrect argument. This University was established by an Act of Parliament. This has happened not only with the students of the Jamia Millia University, but such an incident of beating the students and teachers also took place with the students and teachers of the Sibli National Post-Graduate College on January 27, 2000. The same thing is also happening in the campus of the Jawahar Lal Nehru University. Why are these incidents taking place? I would like to ask the hon. Home Minister in particular and the Government of the National Democratic Alliance in general – who is ruling this country – as to why these incidents are taking place.
Sir, it is my personal belief that there are two reasons for it. First one is strategic and the second one is ideological. So far as the strategic reason is concerned, some organisations like the RSS, the Jana Jagran Manch, the Bajrang Dal and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad are continuously campaigning, in different ways, against the minority communities, particularly, the Christians and the Muslims. I would not like to go into the details of those things.
Sir, I would like to give a few examples before this august House as to what has been happening during the last two to three years. The RSS Sangh Sanchalak had declared on the very day of his coronation that India is presently engaged in yet another epic war between the Hindus and the anti-Hindus, a veritable Mahabharata.
I fail to understand the inner meaning of the word. Shiv Sena Chief too was thundering before his Sainiks in Mumbai. He said:
"We have tolerated the Khans of the film industry for too long. How long are we going to tolerate them?"
This was reported in the Panchajanya. It is a shame to the country that a Bajrang Dal Sarsangh Yojak of Broj region declares - it was reported on the front page of The Times of India dated 23rd June - that the Christians are now bigger enemies than the Muslims. What is the real meaning of this statement? Numerous pamphlets and booklets are being distributed throughout the country, especially in the areas inhabited by Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. I know that some of my colleagues have brought this to the attention of the Prime Minister as well as of the Home Minister. Some ex-Ministers also wrote letters to the Home Minister in this regard, including Shri Eduardo Faleiro. I would like to mention a few words from a pamphlet. It says:
"One way to prevent missionaries from working is to foist false cases on them so that they are always tied up in the court."
This type of campaigning is being made unabated throughout the country by the organisations whose names I have already mentioned. Why are they doing this?
MR. CHAIRMAN: There are about eight to nine Members more to speak. You have to be a little brief. Please complete your speech in about five minutes so that all others get chance to speak. There are 20 speakers in all.
SHRI MOINUL HASSAN : I will complete within fifteen minutes, Sir.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You have already taken 20 minutes.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI (RAIGANJ): Sir, it is a very important issue. Everybody should be accommodated.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Two hours of time has been allotted to it.
SHRI MOINUL HASSAN: Sir, I think that these people and organisations are inspired by the activities of the Government of India led by the Bharatiya Janata Party. The Government has dissolved ICHR not to improve the structure of that organisation. The Government did it merely to put some of its own people on that body. The Government has dissolved the ICSSR, NITPA and NCRP not to improve the working of those bodies but to put its men on those organisations. Why were manuscripts written by famous historians on the freedom movement of India withdrawn? It was done only to form a ground for the so-called Hindu Rashtra. The Government has closed its eyes to the reality. It has failed to protect the interest of the minorities.
Another aspect is ideology, the ideology of promoting Hindutva. I was a patient listener to the reply of the Home Minister in the last Lok Sabha when he spoke about what Hindutva meant. I believe that it is a traditional word. Hindutva in the broadest sense is Indian culture and Indian civilisation. If Hindutva means that, I am also in favour of Hindutva. Everybody knows what is meant by Hindutva. Hindutva means tolerance, exchange of views, justice to everybody, accommodation and democracy. However, today it means a total violation of all these values. Nobody can be in favour of such Hindutva. What is the meaning of Hindutva today? The meaning today is to start a Vishva Hindu Rashtra, to damage the diversity and multifaceted identity of India. This Hindutva is contrary to the history of India.
This is against the multi-cultural and tolerant India. This Hinduism, as I know, is very much liberal. It is very much open-hearted. It is very much a democratic concept. But today it is nothing.
Here, I would like to quote the following two-three lines of Vivekenanda:
"I am proud to belong to a religion which has taught the world both tolerance and universal acceptance. We believe not only in universal toleration but we accept all religions as true. I am proud to belong to a nation which has sheltered the persecuted and the refugees of all religions and all nations of the earth. I am proud to tell you that we have gathered in our bosom the purest remnant of Israelites who came to Southern India and took refuge with us in the very year in which their holy temple was shattered to pieces by Roman tyranny."
Throughout his trip across the United States, he asserted the tolerance which this country and the Hindu faith preached. But what is happening today?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now.
SHRI MOINUL HASSAN : Sir, you just allow me for 40 minutes. I am the initiator of the discussion.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please understand that there are 20 more speakers to participate in this debate. We have to accommodate them also. So, please be brief.
SHRI MOINUL HASSAN : Within half an hour I will conclude.
MR. CHAIRMAN: It is not possible to give you half an hour. There are still seven minutes to go for half an hour. Please conclude.
SHRI HANNAN MOLLAH: Sir, what is this? Can you show any precedent for the last 20 years when the initiator under Rule 193 has not taken a minimum of half an hour to speak? What is this, Sir? It is a very important discussion. Why are you disturbing him, I do not understand.… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please carry on now. Let us not waste time.
SHRI HANNAN MOLLAH : This is the first time I am seeing that within less than 20 minutes of his speech, you are asking him to conclude. He is the initiator.… (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please continue.
SHRI MOINUL HASSAN : Our Constitution has given them the right. I quote article 25 of the Constitution. It says:
"Freedom of conscience and free profession, practice and propagation of religion. "
So, why are the priests and nuns being burnt? Why is the holy Bible being desecrated? Why are the attacks on churches and schools taking place? What is the population of the Christians in our country? It is merely 2.4 per cent or 2.6 per cent of the total population of India. They are electorally insignificant.
Sir, I would like to narrate one incident. After blasts in the Churches of Andhra Pradesh, Goa and Karnataka, Archbishop Alan de Lastic led a deputation to the hon. Prime Minister. What did he say after the meeting? He said:
"We are saddened by the silence of the Government to whom look for support. We do not have to prove our nationality. The onus is on the Government to investigate and book the guilty. We are only demanding routine protection. "
Sir, I am quoting it because Archbishop is no more now. He is not with us. In a tragic car accident in Polland he lost his life. But his words are haunting us. I would like to refer this.
Sir, what is the opinion of high officials of the Government regarding this? Our Prime Minister, in his last visit, met Pope John Paul and assured him. But before the Press men he has told:
"Attacks on Christians are isolated acts. The Government reports show that in the last two years, it is increasing in the different parts of the country."
I suppose, this word ‘isolated’ is not a correct word used here, by our hon. Prime Minister. I am sorry to say this. It is nothing but underplaying.
I would conclude my speech. I would not take much time.
I would like to quote here what was said by our first Prime Minister, Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru in the Young India seventy years ago:
"There can be no stable equilibrium in any country so long as an attempt is made to crush a minority or force it to conform to the ways of the majority. There is no surer method of rousing the resentment of the minority and keeping it apart from the rest of the nation than to make it feel that it has not got the freedom to stick to its own ways. … It matters little whether logic is on its side or whether its own particular brand of culture is worthwhile or not. The mere fact of losing it makes it dear. Therefore we in India must make it clear to all that our policy is based on granting this freedom to the minorities and that under no circumstance will any coercion or repression of them be tolerated. … We can also lay down as our deliberate policy that there shall be no unfair treatment of any minority. Indeed, we should go further and state that it will be the business of the State to give favoured treatment to minority and backward communities."
This was what Pandit Nehru had told Young India in 1930.
Lastly, these premeditated attacks are aimed not only at the rights of the minorities but also at the entire pluralistic fabric of the Indian society that is multi-religious, multi-cultural and multi-lingual, on which the unity of India’s nationhood depends. Therefore, the Government should be more alert, more vigilant and more active.
With these words, I conclude.
डा. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा (दक्षिण दिल्ली) : सभापति महोदय, सदन के सामने जो मोशन रखा गया है, मैं उसके संबंध में स्पष्ट करना चाहता हूं कि अल्पसंख्यक, चाहे वे भाषाई अल्पसंख्यक हों या धार्मिक, उन पर किसी प्रकार का अन्याय व अत्याचार बहुत ही निंदनीय है। अगर कोई योजनापूर्वक ऐसा करता है तो उसको कड़ी सजा मिलनी चाहिए। मैं यह भी कहना चाहता हूं कि हमारी जो राष्ट्रीय जनतांत्रिक गठबंधन की सरकार है, उसने संकल्प किया है कि अल्पसंख्यकों की रक्षा के लिए वह कोई कसर बाकी नहीं रखेगी और उनके साथ किसी प्रकार का भेदभाव इस देश में नहीं होने देगी। परंतु यह भी उतना ही सच है कि विरोधी पक्ष के पास जब कोई मुद्दा नहीं होता, तो वह संघ परिवार को गाली देने लगता है। यह कोई आज की बात नहीं है, पिछले ५३ साल में जहां तक मुझे मालूम है १९४७ से आज तक शायद ही कोई ऐसा वर्ष होगा, जब अल्पसंख्यकों पर अत्याचार का कोई न कोई विषय यहां न उठाया गया हो, अभी हमारे मित्र बोल रहे थे, संघ परिवार पर, फिर जनसंघ पर और बाद में जनसंघ से भारतीय जनता पार्टी पर कोई न कोई आरोप न थोपे गए हों।
अल्पसंख्यकों पर अत्याचार निंदनीय है तो अत्याचार की गलत और गढ़ी हुई कहानियां कहना और उनको लेकर उसका प्रचार करना भी उतना ही निंदनीय होना चाहिए। मेरे मित्र ने गोवा, कर्नाटक और आंध्रा प्रदेश में गिरजाघरों पर हुए हमलों का जिक्र किया। मेरा ख्याल था कि सही बात साबित हो जाने पर यह प्रचार बंद हो जायेगा। पिछले सत्र में मोशन था ईसाइयों पर होने वाला अत्याचार, इस बार वह विषय नहीं रखा गया, बदल दिया गया और यह कर दिया गया कि भाषाई और धार्मिक अल्पसंख्यकों पर हो रहे जुल्म और अत्याचार के बारे में चर्चा। आज हम इस पर चर्चा कर रहे हैं। आज रेडियो को सुनें और टी.वी. देखें तो उसमें बताया गया है कि कर्नाटक के गृह मंत्री, जो कांग्रेस पार्टी की सरकार के मंत्री है, ने कहा है कि बम विस्फोटों के अंदर शामिल वायुसेना तक का व्यक्ति पकड़ लिया गया है।
उससे साबित होता है कि इन बम धमाकों में पूरी तरह से पाकिस्तान का हाथ है। गिरजाघरों पर जितने हमले किये गये, वे पाकिस्तान की आई.एस.आई. एजेंसी ने किये। यह बात आज सुबह से रात तक टी.वी. चैनल दोहरा रहे हैं। जिस दिन गोआ, आन्ध्रा प्रदेश और कर्नाटक में १२ गिरजाघरों पर बम-विस्फोट हुआ हुए, तो कौन सी गाली है जो संघ परिवार को नहीं निकाली गई? प्राय सारे अखबारों में स्क्रीमिंग, हैडलाइन्स, सब पत्रों में बार-बार सम्पादकीय, टी.वी. चैनल्स के अंदर पहली खबर कि ईसाईयों पर इतने अत्याचार हो रहे हैं। परंतु वह तो सौभाग्य कहिएगा या दुर्भाग्य कहिएगा कि एक मारुति वैन जा रही थी, वह मारुति वैन गढ़्डे में उछली और उछलने से बम विस्फोट हो गया। तीन व्यक्ति में से दो मर गये। वहां दीनदार अंजुमन के तीन पाक एजेंट थे। उनमें से सिद्दीकी और ज़ाकिर की मृत्यु हो गई। तीसरा एस.एम. इब्राहिम बच गया। उसने पूरे षडयंत्र का रहस्य खोला। उसने सब कुछ बताया कि कैसे वे पाकिस्तान गये थे, किस-किस से मिले थे, कैसे वहां से असला लेकर आ रहे थे और किस तरह से गिरजाघरों पर बम विस्फोट किया गया, यह सारा रहस्य उसने खोला।
कर्नाटक में कांग्रेस की सरकार है, आन्ध्रा प्रदेश में टी.डी.पी. की सरकार है। गोआ का मुख्य मंत्री क्रिश्चियन है और इन तीनों की पुलिस ने मिलकर इस षडयंत्र का भंडाफोड़ किया । कर्नाटक के गृह मंत्री श्री मल्लिकार्जुन का बयान था:
"The sole intention seems to have been to create panic among the Christians. They believe that if Christians revolt against Hindus, it would be advantageous for the other minorities. "
पाकिस्तान की साजिश है जिससे हिन्दुओं में तथा क्रिश्चियन में झगड़ा हो जाये, हिन्दू-मुसलमानों में झगड़ा हो जाये, साम्प्रदायिक झगड़े हो जाएं। परन्तु हम भी पाकिस्तान की जुबान बोलते हैं। हम भी पाकिस्तान की भाषा बोलते हैं और उसके जाल में फंसते जा रहे हैं। मुझे आश्चर्य है कि यह सब साबित हो जाने के बाद तो कम से कम इस बात को इस तरीके से नहीं रखा जाता। दीनदार अंजुमन के सचिव सैयद इकबाल को पकड़ा गया। निजामुद्दीन को गिरफ्तार किया गया और सारा षडयंत्र जब बेनकाब हो गया था तो जिन लोगों ने आरोप लगाये थे, जिन लोगों ने आठ-आठ कॉलम्स की हैडलाइन्स लगाई थी, जिन लोगों ने खड़े होकर यहां गालियां दी थीं, उनको क्षमा मांगनी चाहिए थी। धृष्टता की पराकाष्ठा है कि यह सब साबित हो जाने के बाद कि पाकिस्तान षडयंत्र कर रहा है फिर भी आज संघ परिवार को गाली दे रहे हैं।
उत्तर प्रदेश की घटनाओं का भी जिक्र किया गया। यू.पी. में पांच जगह पर ईसाईयों पर हमलों की घटनाएं हुई। माइनॉरिटीज कमीशन के मोहम्मद शमीम चेयरमैन हैं। मोहम्मद शमीम जस्टिस हैं, दिल्ली हाइ-कोर्ट के चीफ जस्टिस रहे हैं, यह मोहम्मद शमीम साहब की रिपोर्ट है जिसमें उन्होंने कहा है कि वह खुद मौके पर गये। अल्पसंख्यक आयोग में एक क्रिश्चियन हैं, एक सिख हैं, एक मुसलमान हैं । अद्यक्ष न्यायाधीश हैं और वे तीनों जाते हैं और उन्होंने यू.पी. में जाकर पांच जगहों पर स्वयं देखा। सबसे पहले कोसी की रिपोर्ट है जिसका एक अंश है :
"On being asked, Father Thomas categorically stated that he was satisfied with the protection and help given by the local administration headed by DM and SSP. He also stated that there was no communal angle to the incident. "
मैं सारी रिपोर्ट नहीं पढ़ रहा हूं। सिर्फ उनके निष्कर्ष पढ़कर आपके सामने रखना चाहता हूं।
"The Commission is satisfied with the prompt steps taken by the local administration in providing police protection to the school authorities. "
"Father Thomas was also present at the school premises at Kosi and he was also satisfied with the security cover provided to the school authorities by the local administration. This Commission is fully satisfied that it is pure and simple case of robbery and nothing else. "
उसके बाद मथुरा की घटना का उल्लेख है।
"The Commission is of the view that the present matter is simply a law and order problem with no communal tinge, whatsoever."
About the Sacred Heart School, the conclusion was:
"The Commission found that this was a routine problem between the parents and the Principal… "…(Interruptions)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA (CANARA): The Christian representative in the Commission is your spokesman…… (Interruptions)
DR. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : This is the Report of Justice Shamim. Please understand it. Kindly have some faith in a Justice also. I know what you are saying. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : Kindly address the Chair. I request you to address the Chair.
… (Interruptions)
डा. विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा : आपको सच्चाई सुनने की आदत होनी चाहिए, साहस होना चाहिए। आपको गर्व होना चाहिए कि ईसाईयों पर हमलों की ये खबरे झूठी साबित हुई हैं। झूठा प्रचार किया जा रहा है। इसको बेनकाब किया जाना चाहिए, लेकिन आप उसी बात से जुड़े हुए हैं। … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: It is a very good discussion that is going on. Kindly do not disturb the House. Prof. Malhotra, please continue.
DR. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : The Commission’s conclusion is like this:
"The Commission found that this was a routine problem between the parents and the Principal due to the sudden hike in fees and non-promotion of 80 students who had failed in their examinations. Since the Principal had withdrawn the hike in fees, the situation had become normal."
Then comes the Agra incident in which it has said:
"In order to have an amicable solution and to maintain good relations between the local administration and church authorities, the Commission advised DM and SSP to transfer Mr. R.S. Pandey outside Agra District. The Commission is fully satisfied after having talked to the administration and church authorities that this too, like other problems referred to above, are simply a law and order problem and there is absolutely nothing communal about it."
… (Interruptions)
श्री रामजी लाल सुमन (फिरोजाबाद) : महोदय, यह एक पक्षीय बात है। …( व्यवधान) उसको वहां परेशान किया गया था। …( व्यवधान)
DR. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : It is there in the Commission’s Report.
सभापति महोदय : उनकी तकरीर होने दीजिए। जब आपकी बारी आए, तो आप बोलिएगा। Prof. Malhotra, please be brief as there are 18 more speakers to participate.
… (Interruptions)
DR. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : I am taking my Party’s time and my Party’s time is fixed. I am not going out of my Party’s time. You cannot equate a single-Member Party with that of a large Party.
MR. CHAIRMAN: You take your own time but be brief.
DR. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : As regards the Rewari incident, the Commission went there also and the Report says:
"The Deputy Commissioner was of the view that this is a case of an accident and there were no communal overtones. The Commission is, therefore, of the view that this is a case of simple road accident and that no communal meaning be attributed to it. This was fully corroborated by Father Phillip and the two nuns who went to the extent of stating that the motive behind the publicity with regard to the above accident is not understood as the atmosphere in Rewari has all along been very peaceful. They also mentioned that some western forces were trying to give a political colour to the incident and create a wedge among the Hindus and Christians residing in the town."
यह वहां की स्थिति है। इसके बाद झाबुआ का जिक्र हुआ है। झाबुआ का सच क्या है। मध्य प्रदेश में कांग्रेस की सरकार है। वहां पर एक घटना घटी कि २४ लोगों ने कुछ ननों के साथ बलात्कार किया । इस घटना का इतना भीषण प्रचार किया गया कि जैसे वहां हिन्दुओं ने जाकर ननों पर अत्याचार या बलात्कार कर दिया हो। आपकी कांग्रेस सरकार ने २४ लोगों को पकड़ा और इस बात को महीनों तक छिपाए रखा कि उन २४ अपराधियों में से १२ क्रिस्चियन थे और १२ अन्य आदिवासी । जिनके ऊपर अत्याचार हुआ, वे क्रिस्चियन थे और जिन्होंने बलात्कार किया, वे भी क्रिस्चियन थे तो क्रिस्चियनों पर अत्याचार का सवाल कहां पैदा होता है। बलात्कार अपने आप में वीभत्स कांड है और अमानवीय कृत्य है। परन्तु इसे क्रिस्चियनों पर अत्याचार, क्रिस्चियन ननों पर बलात्कार - इस प्रकार की घटना बना देना कहां तक उचित है, इस पर आप विचार करें।
"केरल के अंदर बाइबल जला दी गई। झज्जर में झाबुआ की पुनरावृत्ति हुई। अमेरिकी डाक्टर पर हमला हुआ बरीपादा में ईसाई नन पर बलात्कार हुआ " ये सभी समाचार बड़े-बड़े छापे गए थे। वे सब के सब गलत साबित हुए। उनमें से एक भी सत्य साबित नहीं हुआ। खुद ईसाई नेताओं ने माना कि ये सब आरोप बिलकुल गलत हैं। जस्टिस वधवा कमीशन स्टेंस हत्केयाकांड के बारे में बनाया गया। मैंने पहले आपसे कहा कि अत्याचार किसी पर भी हो, वह बहुत ही निन्दनीय है। १९४७ से लेकर आजतक आठ क्रिश्चियंस की देश में हत्या हुई है। जिनमें से दो की ईसाई होने के नाम पर हत्या हुई, बाकी पांच-छ: कांड में केवल लॉ एंड आर्डर की बात थी और कहा जा रहा है कि यहां अल्पसंख्यकों का नरसंहार हो रहा है। उसका मुकाबला इंडोनेशिया से किया जा रहा है। जहां हजारों ईसाईयों की जानबूझ कर, सरकार की,पुलिस व सेना की ओर से हत्या हुई। स्टेंस वाले कांड में भी जस्टिस वधवा नियुक्त किए गए थे। वह आपके समय में बनाए गए थे। उनकी रिपोर्ट क्या है। उन्होंने रिपोर्ट के अंत में कहा- "No Hindu organisation was involved in this crime."
1641 hours (Dr. Laxminarayan Pandeya in the Chair) आप लगातार हिन्दू आर्गनाइजेशन की बात कहें। जस्टिस वधवा की बात पर भी आप विश्वास करने के लिए तैयार नहीं। उन्होंने चार और कांडों का भी जिक्र किया और इन चारों-पांचों के विषय में कहा कि वह झूठे हैं। कंदामल क्षेत्र में एक लड़के और लड़की की हत्या हुई तथा यह कहा गया कि इसे भी स्टेंस की तरह मार दिया गया है। जस्टिस वधवा ने कहा- "Investigations reveal that the crime was committed by the relative of the victim who was also a Christian." This is what Justice Wadhwa says in his report.… (Interruptions) You read the report of Justice Wadhwa.
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : Why was that report never circulated? Why was it quietly kept in the library? … (Interruptions)
DR. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : In the case of the rape of a Christian nun in a moving car in Baripada, Justice Wadhwa says: "It was a made-up story. Investigation had proved that Sister Mary’s FIR was false.
महोदय, मैं और बहुत से जिक्र कर सकता हूं और सभी जगहों का आपके सामने उदाहरण देकर बता सकता हूं कि वहां क्या-क्या हुआ। मुझे इस विषय में यह कहना है कि यहां कोई ईसाइयों का विरोध नहीं है, विरोध धर्मान्तरण का है। धर्मान्तरण जबरदस्ती किया जाए और लालच देकर किया जाए, इसके खिलाफ किस ने कानून बनाया। सबसे पहले मध्य प्रदेश की कांग्रेस गवर्नमेंट ने, उड़ीसा की कांग्रेस गवर्नमेंट ने और फिर अरूणाचल की कांग्रेस गवर्नमेंट ने ऐसा कानून बनाया। महात्मा गांधी जी ने कहा था कि शिक्षा के अंदर आप एजुकेशन दें, बहुत अच्छी बात है, परन्तु आप किसी को शिक्षा दें, उसका धर्म परिवर्तन कर लें, किसी को नौकरी दें, उसकी आत्मा निकाल लें , यह सौदेबाजी है। धर्मान्तरण जिस तरीके से हो रहा है और जिस तरीके से धर्मान्तरण करने की कोशिश की जा रही है, उसका विरोध हो रहा है और यह विरोध मैंने कहा कि सबसे अधिक महात्मा गांधी जी ने किया था। यह अलग बात है कि आप महात्मा गांधी जी के अनुयायी अपने आप को न मानें। आज आपकी नेता सोनिया गांधी जी हो जाएं, महात्मा गांधी आपके नेता न रहें परन्तु गांधी जी ने हमेशा इसका विरोध किया।…( व्यवधान)
महोदय, मैं यह भी कहना चाहता हूं कि भारत सरकार को चाहिए कि जितने सारे के सारे कांड गलत साबित हुए, पोप साहब को उनकी पूरी रिपोर्ट भेजनी चाहिए। उन्होंने यहां जो बयान दिया था और जिसे इंडोनेशिया के साथ-साथ यह कह दिया कि भारत में भी ईसाइयों पर अत्घयाचार की घटनाएं हो रही हैं। मैंने आपसे कहा कि इस तरह की घटनाओं का गलत प्रचार सारी दुनिया में हुआ, इंडोनेशिया और भारत की घटनाओं का कोई मुकाबला नहीं।
पोप के पास पूरे तथ्य नहीं हैं। ईसाई मिशनरियां जो बाहर से ज्यादा पैसा लेने के लिए भारत के विरूध्द झूठा प्रचार करती जा रही हैं, उनके बारे में माननीय पोप-साहब को भी हमें लिखना चाहिए।
माननीय पोप-साहब यदि दिल्ली में यह कह सकते हैं कि तीसरे मिलेनियम में ईसाईयत की पूरी फसल एशिया में काटी जायेगी जो पहले यूरोप में काटी गयी और अब सारे एशिया को ईसाई बनाया जायेगा। तो कोई हिंदू नेता अगर यह कहता है कि ईसाई बने हिंदुओं को वापस हिंदूत्व में लाएंगे तो आपको आपत्ति क्यों होनी चाहिए। अगर धमार्ंतरण ठीक है तो पुन: धर्मान्तरण भी ठीक होगा। उसके बारे में आपत्ति करने की क्या बात है? इसलिए मेरा कहना है कि जो प्रचार किया जा रहा है, वह मूलत: ही गलत है।
दूसरी बात कही गयी है कि मुसलमान भाइयों पर अत्याचार हो रहा है। इन दिनों तीन-चार घटनाएं हुई हैं। मेरे पास सारे आंकड़ें हैं कि कितनी घटनाएं हुई हैं, कितने साम्प्रदायिक दंगे पहले हुए और कितने अब हुए। जब से यह सरकार बनी है तब से साम्प्रदायिक दंगे कम हुए हैं, यह भी आंकड़े देकर सिद्ध किया जा सकता है। हो यह रहा है कि जहां पर कोई हिंदू मरता है उसके बारे में कहा जाता है कि खबर मत देना, क्योंकि इसकी प्रतक्रिया होगी, लेकिन दूसरी ओर कोई छोटी सी घटना हो जाये तो उनके नाम पूरी तरह दिये जाते हैं और कहा जाता है कि नरसंहार हो रहा है, माइनोरिटीज का कत्लेआम हो रहा है।
अभी राजस्थान में क्या हुआ।…( व्यवधान) राजस्थान के मालपुरा में दंगा हुआ। एक हिंदू कैलाश माली की हत्या हुई। मेरा कहना यह है कि साम्प्रदायिक दंगों में हिंदू मरे या मुसलमान, मरता तो भारतीय ही है। पर वहां पर मरने वालों में ६ हिंदू और ६ मुसलमान थे - यह राजस्थान सरकार की अपनी रिपोर्ट है। मैं पूछना चाहता हूं कि क्या यह मुसलमानों का कत्लेआम है। लेकिन इस घटना को किस तरह से टी.वी. पर दिखाया गया। वहां पर बोला गया कि एक वृद्ध महिला को घर में घुसकर मार डाला गया। लेकिन जो चार लोग वहां पर " माता भवानी" मंदिर की यात्रा पर जा रहे थे, उनको जीप से उतार कर मारा गया, क्या वे इंसान नहीं थे?
सूरत में मरने वालों में पांच में से तीन हिंदू थे और दो मुसलमान थे। इसको हिंदू-मुसलमान का सवाल नहीं बनाया जाना चाहिए था। मरने वालों में चाहे हिंदू हों या मुसलमान, सभी भारतीय हैं। अगर हम इन दंगों को मुसलमानों पर अत्याचार का रंग देंगे तो पाकिस्तान और दूसरे मुस्लिम देशों के हाथ में प्रचार का हथियार ही देंगे। यह बहुत गलत बात है और उचित नहीं है।
उत्तर प्रदेश में धार्मिक स्थान बिल के बारे में प्रचार किया गया कि धार्मिक स्थान बनाने पर पाबंदी लगा दी गयी। मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि ऐसा बिल पहले तो मध्य प्रदेश में कांग्रेस शासन में बनाया गया और फिर वैस्ट बंगाल में बनाया गया। यह शब्दश: वही बिल है। जब उत्तर प्रदेश में बनाया गया तब भी किसी ने भी इसका विरोध नहीं किया। माननीय मुलायम सिंह यादव जी ने या और किसी ने इसको रोका नहीं, सब ने पास कर दिया। लेकिन बाद में कहां से ध्यान आया और इस पर इतनी जोर से चर्चा शुरू कर दी और जुलूस निकालने आरम्भ कर दिये और प्रचार किया गया कि इसके द्वारा मुसलमानों के धार्मिक स्थानों को बनाना बंद कर दिया गया है। अन-ऑथराइज्ड तो न मंदिर बन सकते हैं न गुरूद्वारे बन सकते हैं और सरकारी जमीन पर कुछ भी नहीं बन सकता है।…( व्यवधान) सभी जानते हैं कि भारत-नेपाल और भारत की सारी सीमा पर मदरसे बन रहे हैं। देश की सभी सीमाओं पर मदरसों की बाढ़ आ गई है।
इन मदरसों से निकलने वाले तालिबान थे। इसमें केवल हिन्दुस्तान की बात नहीं है। पाकिस्तान में, चाहे भुट्टो रहे हो या अब जनरल परवेज मुशर्रफ रहे हों या कोई और रहे हों, सभी परेशान हैं। मिरुा की सरकार परेशान है और दुनिया के मुस्लिम देश परेशान हैं। मैंने तीन दिन पहले वाशिंगटन पोस्ट में पढ़ा जिसे मैं कोट कर रहा हूं:
"""""About 1.75 million Pakistani youths are being trained in nearly 7000 Madarsas, religious schools across Pakistan for waging the Jihad in Kashmir and other parts of the world,"""" according to Washington Times. """"More than 2000 such students of one particular Madarsa were on way to Kashmir,"""" the report said quoting Mohammad Ahmad Ajmal Kadri, Leader of the Fundamentalist Jamat-e-Ulema Islami Party, who runs the Kudumnan Madarsa. The paper said, """"about 13000 boys have passed out of the school. There are 7000 religious schools who have prospered in past because of the failure."""""
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please do not disturb.
श्री राशिद अल्वी (अमरोहा): क्या आप खुद मदरसों में गये हैं, क्या आपने एक भी मदरसा देखा है जो आप पाकिस्तान की बात कर रहे हैं। पहले आप खुद जाकर देखिये, तब आप बोलिये।
श्री किशन सिंह सांगवान (सोनीपत): पाकिस्तान के नाम पर बड़ी तकलीफ होने लगती है।
श्री राशिद अल्वी : आप यह कहिये कि हिन्दुस्तान के मदरसों में क्या हो रहा है, पाकिस्तान से क्या लेना-देना? आप देखिये कि हिन्दुस्तान के मदरसों में क्या हो रहा है, तब आपको पता चलेगा कि वहां बच्चे पढ़ते हैं या एजेंट पैदा होते हैं।…( व्यवधान) क्या इसके अलावा हमारे खिलाफ कोई बात नहीं? …( व्यवधान)
डा.विजय कुमार मलहोत्रा (दक्षिण दिल्ली) सभापति जी, इन दो खबरों के पढ़ने के बाद सारे देश को चिन्ता करनी चाहिये। संयुक्त राष्ट्र संघ के मानवाधिकार आयोग की मीटिंग के हवाले से एक खबर छपी है जिसमें कहा गया है कि संयुक्त राष्ट्र संघ की मानवाधिकार समति की बैठक में जम्मू कश्मीर में धर्म के नाम पर हिंसा का समर्थन करने के लिये पाकिस्तान को कड़ी फटकार लगाई गई और दुनिया के देशों की सरकारों से आहवान किया गया कि वे पाकिस्तान की सरकार पर इस बात का दबाव डालें कि वह उन मदरसों को बंद कर दें जहां कथित तौर पर आतंकवादियों को प्रशिक्षण दिया जा रहा है। इंटरनैशनल इंस्टीटयूट ऑफ पीस की प्रतनधि ततैना शाउमियान ही नहीं बल्कि सभी मुस्लिम ने इसके बारे में कहा था कि इस तरह के मदरसे न फैलें, वहां आई.एस.आई. के अड्डे नहीं बनें। हमें आई.एस.आई. और इस्लाम में फर्क करना चाहिये। वहां तालिबान की शिक्षा में, फंडामैंटेलिस्ट्स में ज़िहाद का नारा लगाने वाले मुसलमानों तथा इस्लाम में फर्क है। भारत में चार बांगलादेशियों को निकाल दिया तो सब जगह हाहाकार मच गया। भारत में दो करोड़ बांगलादेशी घुसपैठ कर आ गये हैं। दिल्ली में चार लाख ऐसे लोग आये हुये हैं। सऊदी अरब ने अपने यहां से दो लाख बांगलादेशी निकाले हैं और मडिल ईस्ट के देशों से भी निकाले गये हैं। यहां तक कि पाकिस्तान भी निकालने की बात करता रहता है परन्तु सेकुलरवादियों का कहना है कि हिन्दुस्तान में किसी किस्म की रोक नहीं होनी चाहिये। जब चार घुसपैठिये निकाल दिये जाते हैं तो हाहाकार मच जाता है। जब जम्मू कश्मीर से चार लाख हिन्दू निकलकर रिफ्यूजी बनकर अपने ही देश में रह रहे हैं तो उन लोगो के बारे में कोई विचार नहीं करता।…( व्यवधान) .. हिन्दुस्तान में अल्पसंख्यकों के बारे में सभी दल और सभी लोग विचार करते हैं। इस बात पर भी आप विचार करें।
सभापति महोदय, मैं दो-चार बातें आपके सामने रखना चाहूंगा। जिस देश में किसी वर्ग का नर-संहार होता है, वहां से उस वर्ग के लोग बाहर निकलते हैं या वहां किसी दूसरे देश से लोग आते हैं? इस बात पर कोई भी विचार करने के लिये तैयार नहीं कि १९५१ में भारत में मुस्लिम जनसंख्या ८ प्रतिशत थी जो आज बढ़कर १२ प्रतिशत हो गई है। यदि यहां नर-संहार होता तो क्या बांगलादेश से दो करोड़ लोग भारत आते? वे हिन्दुस्तान में इसलिये आते हैं क्योंकि यहां उन लोगों को रोज़गार मिलता है, ज्यादा स्वतंत्रता है और वे यहां अच्छी तरह से रह सकते हैं। क्या आप में से कोई बता सकता है कि हिन्दुओं की जनसंख्या ८७ प्रतिशत से पांच प्रतिशत कम होकर ८२ प्रतिशत क्यों रह गई है? फिर भी आप कहते हैं कि यहां अल्पसंख्यकों का नर-संहार हो रहा है।
सभापति महोदय, इस पर हम विचार करें। मैं सिर्फ तीन-चार प्रश्न पूछ रहा हूं। यहां जितने भी मुस्लिम भाई हैं, वे बता दें कि क्या दुनिया में कोई ऐसा एक मुल्क है, चाहे वह मुस्लिम मुल्क हो, जो अपने देश में हज पर जाने वालों को सब्सिडी देता हो। कोई भाई खड़ा होकर दुनिया के किसी एक मुल्क का नाम बता दे। दुनिया में ६० मुस्लिम देश हैं, कुल १७८ देश हैं। क्या इनमें से कोई एक भी मुल्क हज पर जाने वालों को सब्सिडी देता है? हिंदुस्तान एकमात्र ऐसा देश है जो हज पर जाने वालों के लिए दो सौ करोड़ रुपये की सब्सिडी देता है और फिर भी कहा जा रहा है कि भारत में मुसलमानों के साथ भेदभाव होता है। सिर्फ हिंदुस्तान में दो सौ करोड़ रुपये की सब्सिडी दी जाती है। आप दुनिया का कोई मुल्क बता दीजिए।
जो एसा करता हो…( व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अलवी : जो पिछली सरकारों ने किया, आप वही कर रहे हैं।
रेल मंत्रालय में राज्य मंत्री (श्री दिग्विजय सिंह) : आप क्यों उत्तेजित हो रहे हैं, मल्होत्रा जी पाकिस्तान के बारे में बोल रहे हैं।…( व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : उन्हें अपना भाषण समाप्त करने दीजिए, उन्हें बोलने दीजिए।
डा.विजय कुमार मल्होत्रा : दुनिया में १७८ या १८० देश हैं, आगे चलकर दो सौ देश हो जायेंगे, क्या किसी में दो सविल लॉज हैं। क्या दुनिया में किसी मुल्क में हयूमैन राइट्स कमीशन के साथ माइनोरिटीज कमीशन है। क्या दुनिया में कोई ऐसा मुल्क है जहां अल्पसंख्यकों के लिए अलग फाइनेन्शियल इंस्टीटयूशंस हों। जिसमें आई.ए.एस. या आई.पी.एस. की ट्रेनिंग के लिए कोचिंग सैन्टर सिर्फ अल्पसंख्यकों के लिए बनते हों। परंतु हिंदुस्तान में अल्पसंख्यकों के लिए १५ प्वाइंट प्रोग्राम है, जो मैं आपको पढ़कर सुना सकता हूं। मेरा यही अनुरोध था कि हिंदुस्तान में माइनोरिटीज के लिए, अल्पसंख्यकों के लिए जितने अधिकार हैं, उतने दुनिया के दो सौं मुल्कों में नहीं हैं। इसलिए ऐसी भाषा मत बोलिये, जिससे हिंदुस्तान दुनिया भर में बदनाम हो। इस तरह की भाषा का प्रयोग मत कीजिए, इस तरह के आंकड़े मत पेश करिये, ( व्यवधान) मैं आपसे सिर्फ यही कहना चाहता हूं कि प्रोग्रेसिव होने के लिए, सेक्युलर होने के लिए क्या हिंदुओं को गाली देना जरूरी है। हिंदुओं को बदनाम करते रहना, देश को बदनाम करते रहना, सेकुलरवादियों के लिये क्या जरूरी है। क्या ऐसा करने से आप बड़े भारी प्रोग्रेसिव हो जायेंगे। इन तथ्यों के बाद में मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि हिंदुस्तान में अल्पसंख्यकों के लिए जितने अधिकार हैं, उतने किसी देश में नहीं है और हमें गर्व करना चाहिए कि हिंदुस्तान में अल्पसंख्यक सबसे ज्यादा सुरक्षित है, उनके पास सबसे ज्यादा अधिकार हैं। उनके साथ किसी प्रकार का भेदभाव नहीं होता है। इस पर हर हिंदुस्तानी को गर्व करना चाहिए। आपने मुझे बोलने का समय दिया, इसके लिए मैं आपको धन्यवाद देता हूं।
SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV (SILCHAR): Mr. Chairman, Sir, with a heavy heart, as a linguistic minority from the North Eastern India, I stand to speak.
The learned speaker from the ruling Party, Prof. Malhotra tried to sell the Congress activities as the panorama of this Government""""s protection to the minorities. The minorities are not safe in this country. The Prime Minister of the country has to go to Pope John Paul II and bow his head, not to get his blessing but to give him an assurance that the Christians in India are safe, the atrocities on them are sporadic, and not a pattern.
I fully agree with the spirit of the Prime Minister, the man for whom your Party is standing today and not for anybody else. Mr. Chairman, Sir, Prof. Malhotra should remember that protection and right to the minorities has not been given by you or Congress. The founding father of the Constitution had given that right to the minorities considering that India is a multi-linguistic and a multi-religious country. That was the foresight of our founding father.
1700 hrs. This is why, still we, the linguistic and religious minorities, are surviving in this country. A Hindu is a minority in Kashmir. A Muslim is a minority in almost all parts of the country. A Christian is a minority in New Delhi. But if you go to Meghalaya, he is a majority. There a Bengali or others are minority. You try to say before us that everything has happened in the Congress rule state of the country. Whether it happened during Congress or BJP rule, all the people are Indians. All such acts are condemnable. Nobody can take a step to say that it is none of the business of the Central Government to protect the minorities. No, it is equally the right of the Central Government to rise to the occasion. What is happening today in the country? You have tried to say that so many things are being done by the Muslims and Muslim institutions.
You have said about 15-Point Programme. When this gentleman, Shri Purno A. Sangma, who is sitting here, was the Minister of State for Home, he started it first at the instance of Shri Rajiv Gandhi. It is good. You tried to protect it. Reservation is good. Today we are not here to finger at the Government that you are responsible or not to say we are not responsible. Today here we are saying that this country is a democratic country, and the Constitution has given the rights to all sects of people. There is a situation which is going against us in the world nations. Your Government’s reply is this. You have said that regarding Christians, the total incidents that took place in 1998 were 86; in 1999, it was 120; and in the year 2000, it is 100. The total number of persons killed in 1998 is 3; in 1999, 12 and in 2000, it is 7. These are the facts taken from the hon. Home Minister’s reply given in the House. Then, how did you say everything is all right in this country? You are here to protect your Government, but not to give an alibi by creating another sensation in the country that Parliament, this House has not taken cognisance of what is happening in this country. I am glad the hon. Home Minister is here. I am sure he will not be one of those to say that everything is all right in this country. Never. Out of 33 incidents, a Muslim organisation is involved in three incidents. What about the balance 30? Who has done it? Just now you have said that Bajrang Dal is not involved. Somebody else has said that Shiv Sena is not involved. Somebody has said that Congress is not involved. Then who are they? Let us try to find out from the Central Government who are those people who are involved. If Bajrang Dal is not there, if Congress is not there, if Shiv Sena is not there; if the Christian organisation is not there, who are they? Incidents are happening.
You cannot say that incidents are not happening. … (Interruptions) I am not saying. No organisation is owning responsibility. Find out who are those responsible. I have to say that the time has come to do it, if you want to keep India together, you have to do it.
I will mainly concentrate on the North-Eastern region. The ethos of the speech of my friend was that everything was all right in this country. A sportsman-politician, Shri Malhotra has taken the duty of Shri Venkaiah Naidu here. He was not speaking as a Member of Parliament, he was speaking as the protector of his Government. Well done, from his point of view! Mr. Home Minister, I am extremely grateful to you that you are here. Your Minister of State had answered in the Rajya Sabha a Question saying that there was no notice given to the Indian citizens, that there was no atrocity committed on the linguistic and religious minorities and nobody had submitted any memorandum before them.
The President of the BJP unit of Assam is a Member of Parliament,. I do not know whether he is here. He is not. He went to the Governor of Assam. He came back and according to the Assam Press had given a memoranda to the Home Minister of India, Shri L.K. Advani and the Prime Minister of the country, Shri Vajpayee that in Assam he was the President and in his constituency the Hindus were being given notices by the Police on the plea that they were foreigners, and in other parts as Muslims.
I have here 52 notices served by the Assam Government, all authenticated by me, on Sabita Biswas, J. Biswas, S. Biswas, G. Biswas, and then Shri Dutto, Shri Dutto, Shri Dutto and Shri Das. All are supported by their voters’ list published before 1971. There are also affidavits before the court saying that they are in Government service. All these, after my speech, I will lay on the Table of the House.
Who is doing it? This is misuse of the Assam Accord. The Assam Accord said that those who had come to India before the 25th March, l971 by signing that Accord, all had been accepted as the citizens of India, the reason being that Mujibur Rehman came to India after the liberation of Bangladesh, in the open field of Brigade Grounds he said before Indiraji that he had invited, after the creation of Bangladesh, all Hindus and Muslims who had come from Bangladesh to come back to Bangladesh. Shrimati Indira Gandhi said that those who had come from Sonar Bangla and accepted our country’s citizenship, shall be accepted by us as our citizens instead of being sent away. . That was the Assam Accord signed here.
At present the Chief Minister, who has become a CM from zero to hero by this agitation, is saying that there are lakhs of refugees who are foreigners. Shri Advani goes to Assam. His leaders in front of him speak not a single word. that the Hindus would be deported from Assam. And now most of the notices are given to the Hindus. There is a `D’ voters’ list and 3,50,000 have been identified as `D’.
Prof. Shri Malhotra is the champion of the Hindus and he knows that 80 per cent of the voters are Hindus, persons who have retired from the railways, Government service. They are given notices by the Election Commission of India. When we went to him he said that it would be settled after the elections. Now, let us have the elections. Santosh Mohan Dev and whose forefathers were born in India -- my father was a political sufferer -- all of us are treated as foreigners. What is this?
How many ISI activists has the Government been able to find in Assam?"
The B.J.P. is saying that Assam is full of ISI. Mr. Home Minister, you, in this august House, have promised before us that you shall give a white paper. We want to know what is that white paper, blackmailing the Bengalis Hindus and Muslims.. You are blackmailing us. You do not know people are having sleepless nights in Assam. Police go and ask for money and those who cannot give money are put in the vehicle and taken to Bangladesh and thrown out. You say that you do not know. If you do not know, then you must resign. Your intelligence have failed. … (Interruptions) We know as to how you replied in the Rajya Sabha. Your Minister of State for Home Affairs is sitting here. I asked him a question. Who is misleading? One should not reply relying on the officers. I know that you have a blacksheep in your Ministry of Home Affairs. One of the Joint Secretaries has become a tool in the hands of some political parties and their wings. They originally go and attend meeting, take dictation, not from the Minister of Home Affairs but from some other people, who have nothing to do. These organisations are trying to run down your Government. So, you please stand firmly and give protection. … (Interruptions) What have you done? You do not have the right to create a situation. People will not tolerate that. If someone in this House says that we shall revolt, then you say that you are anti-State. If you do not give me the protection then should I not revolt? I left my mother country because BJP is to run a Government and consolidate its Hindu base. Shri P.A.Sangma will tolerate because he has been taken in the Constitution (Amendment) Committee. The Christians are being killed all over the country. He has to answer to his community.
Somewhere you have said about the name of the organisation who is doing the bomb blasts. You please identify the organisation and take action. We shall support you. Have we at any time told you not to take action against Pakistan? You make a propaganda in the newspapers by going to Lucknow that you have achieved something. What have you achieved? Can you tell us what have you achieved? … (Interruptions) It is stated that Pakistan is doing it. What the hell your Government is doing? Have we told your Government not to take action against Pakistan? You please find out who are these tools of Pakistan. If it is in my Party, then put them to jail and take action. The people of this country will support you.
Sir, today, in this country, disinvestment, new policy, globalisation, etc. are taking place. It is very good. We say sometimes that our policy has been hijacked by you. But our country is hijacked by some other forces. Who are those forces? I agree with you where you said that it might be Pakistan. So, we have to take care of it. In that respect, all of us should work shoulder to shoulder. The Congress Party will not shy away from this.
Sir, our delegation went to Mathura. They submitted a report. But you have said just the contrary. Our delegation also went to Gujarat. They have also submitted a report. You please collect these reports by writing to the Leader of the Opposition. You also collect your Intelligence reports. If we are wrong, then please tell us that we are wrong. Please do not try to take some tailor-made judicial inquiry. We were also Ministers. I had the opportunity of working in the Ministry of Home Affairs. Please do not trust too much on the administration. These administrators are the slaves of the system and they do whatever their bosses tell them. I do not want to say which bosses.
Sir, I have a lot of respect for Shri L.K. Advani. … (Interruptions) People say that he is the Patel of India. I never used to dispute it because I had a lot of respect for him. But the answer of the Minister of State in the Ministry of Home Affairs in the Rajya Sabha has shocked me.
It has sent a wave of distrust about your Government all over Assam. When answers are given by your officers, ask them to please write down the correct answers. They mislead you. This is not your brain. This is the reply given in Rajya Sabha. I would request you, Mr. Home Minister, to enquire about it. When a memorandum was being given to you by one of your BJP Members, I told him to be present in the House. He said, he will be. But out of fear he has gone now. He is not here.
Sir, today, in the country, there are linguistic and religious minorities. As I said, some people are Hindus but they are in minority, though we are 80 per cent in this country. In my constituency – I am giving the name – there is a Paper known as Sonar Cachar. Rodbin Roy is the Editor of that Paper. He rose from a very low position to the position of the owner of a Press. He wrote an article against an S.P. for taking gift and money. But what happened after that? When he went to the extreme of writing with facts and figures, the S.P. sent another DSP to his house and said: "By 3 o’clock you have to declare whether you are an Indian or not, otherwise I will arrest you and send you to Bangladesh". We have sacrificed 19 lives to protect our language. On this issue, the Congress, the BJP and the AGP, all came together in Barak Valley. We called a bandh. We told the Assam Chief Minister to either arrest Rodbin Roy and prove that he is a foreigner or remove that S.P. Thank God, next day the Assam Government transferred the SP. This is a fact. If you do not know, you verify it. Is your Intelligence giving that information to you? This is the type of things happening. In my constituency, a man who retired from Railway as a Guard, a Muslim fellow, has been asked to go to Bangladesh. He showed his pension papers. The officer said: "All right. These are your pension papers but I am not accepting them." What is this? Tell me, the Environment Minister, what am I to do. This is what is happening in the country. We are not here to say that this Government is particularly responsible. But I am here to say that you are not performing your duties. You are looking at things with a jaundiced eye. You forget your RSS, you forget your Bajrang Dal, you forget all your past. You are here in the judgement seat of Vikramaditya. You have to take care of both the minorities and the majority. You have to take care of the sentiments of Prof. Malhotra. If he is saying that India is in trouble, you have to convince him that you will take care of the population pattern and other things. At the same time, you have to take care of me. So, you have to take care of both of us. You have to see what is lacking today. You started well but in between I do not know why there is this derailment. What has happened in Kashmir? We were told by our leaders not to say everything that we have heard or seen. When I go to my constituency, people come and tell me what has happened. What am I to do then? I will not tell here also. If I say something, you will say I am helping Pakistan. But what steps are you taking within your party to see that Hindus are not harassed when they go on pilgrimage? Tell us. The man sitting here, Shri N.K. Sengupta, has given his report that the security line should be maintained by paramilitary forces and army. Why you became complacent this time?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Your time is up, Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev.
SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : Sir, by ringing the bell, one day you will say "quit India". As long as I am there, let me speak.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please wind up.
SHRI SONTOSH MOHAN DEV : Sir, my party has got time.
So, Sir, what I am telling is, take care. This man sitting here is also a man from agitation. So, when he went to Kashmir, he spoke out. Then somebody, must be the Prime Minister obviously, said: "Array George, what are you doing?" He said: "No, I am not saying anything." But the real thing came from his mind because he is a man from the grass-root, not like many who are not from grass-root.
It is all right because he has to protect his Government and therefore, he did this. But there are some people in the party, in the Government who can still speak, you may call them and talk to them. In the North-East, we like him. His Army is doing a wonderful job. People say that they are doing well. At some point of time, there was some unhappiness. You have taken care of that and we are happy now. But I am not in favour of continuous deployment of the Army. That is a bad thing. Sometimes, Army officers tell us to do something and create another force for law and order problem. They say that we should not deploy Army all the time because they have to do something else. I agree with the Army people. So, you have started making some sort of reaction forces or something like that.
The Finance Ministry should give more money and keep the Army away. The Army goes out when there is an extreme situation; it is not that only one firing there and the Army goes. When the Army goes and goes around, people say that the Army is committing atrocities. They have to do their duty, but too much deployment of Army is bad. What is happening in Tripura? We have got a Minister, Shri Sarkar. He is a nice man though he is from the CPI(M). Personally, he is an honest man, but he is helpless. He asked for forces, but the forces were not given. I tell you that I was there in Tripura for some time. He wants Assam Rifles to be given to him because the CRPF and the BSF are not active in Tripura. Every day, people are taken out from the bus, being beaten, and money is taken from them. Now, when people travel from Silchar, they keep a separate packet for the terrorists. They know that the bus will be stopped and they would be asked to give Dakshu Maharaj, Mohan Dakshu. So, they keep a packet which is meant for the terrorists and they give it to the terrorists. They are happy. Its rate has come down to a very reasonable one. Do you mean to say that the Government of India and the Government of Tripura does not know about it?
How will these people and the citizens honour me? They do not honour an MP now. They say that we are useless fellows and this institution, which is Mecca of our politics, is not honoured by the people any more. They say that we have come here to create problem in Zero Hour and then, they pass five Bills in one day. Yesterday, five Bills were passed without discussion. Had you been here, you would have been the first man to say, `nothing doing, I will not allow this’. But now, you are a Minister and you are happy. You have a good chair, good aircraft and every thing.
But what is happening? If I stand to speak, the Chair says `sit down’. Why? It is because the time is short. I do not blame him because only four hours are allotted. Sir, you are right, but we have 12 speakers and we are ready to sit up to 10 o’clock. Let it be discussed. We are not trying to say something against the Government. We are trying to say to the Government that their activities are not good. I am not against Shri Advani. I go to his daughter’s marriage and he comes to my daughter’s marriage. That social life is there. But we want to say to Shri Advani that he has to do something to see that people do not blame all the time the government saying that they are the creator of this’. As Home Minister, he has to distant himself from his organisations which are doing it. If they are doing it, he has to tell them `thus far no further’. If they fight for the cause of Hindus, there is nothing wrong. One can fight for the cause of Hindus. If somebody fights for the cause of Muslims, there is nothing wrong, but let us not turn it into killing one another. Let us not go to the Church and burn it. Let us not go to the Masjid and burn it. Let us not go to the Temple and make it an unholy place.
I am grateful to you Mr Chairman Sir, for giving me time. I have nothing against anybody, but I may tell that with a heavy heart, we are participating in this discussion.
With these words, with all the thanks to the Chair, I think that no other incident will happen in Assam. By giving notice as a Congressman, I would say that we are totally committed. If there is any foreigner who has come after 1971, detect him, delete his name from the voters’ list and deport him. If there is any foreigner who has come in-between 1966 and 1971, their names should be entered into a register, they should be disfranchised for 10 years. During that 10 years, they will get all the rights of a citizen of this country, including passport. They will not be able to vote during this period of ten year. We agree.
Before 1961, whoever was there, they have been accepted as citizens.
Last but not least, I do not know whether the Home Minister is happy about it, is that a new trend has emerged, which talks about protection of the indigenous people. What is all this about? It is said that the National Register of 1952 should be taken into consideration for allowing people to contest either as a Member of Parliament or as a Member of Legislative Assembly. They call it "Khilonjhia". Even the intellectual Assamese have not accepted this.
Then, you are trying to make a dead horse, that is, AASU, alive; AASU is no more. Now-a-days, the bandh call given by it is not accepted at all. The other day, they called a bandh in my district, but all the shops remained open.
Sir, are we not citizens of India? You have to take the total picture into consideration.
Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am grateful to you.
I have signed all the papers, and I have authenticated everything. The documents contain voters"""" list, citizenship certificate and everything else. Kindly inquire into this. You need not inform me; I have faith in you. Please get yourself satisfied whether your officers are right or not.
Sir, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity.
Sir, I am handing over these papers to the officer at the Table.* * Papers sought to be laid on the table were not treated as Laid on the Table.
SHRI SURESH KURUP (KOTTAYAM): Respected Chairman, Sir, with a heavy heart, I participate in this discussion.
Whenever the issue of attacks against the minorities was raised in this House, the response of the Government has always been that """"these are all stray incidents which are blown out of proportion"""". At one point, when this issue was raised in this House, the hon. Parliamentary Affairs Minister contentiously dismissed it that """"these are all non-issues"""". But the fact is that ever since this Government came to power, the minorities in this country are living under constant threat.
The Sangh Parivar, which was earlier aiming at the Muslim community in India, is now pointing their guns towards the Christian community, which constitute only 2.5 per cent of the population. During the last two years, while this Government has been in power, there have been more than 300 attacks against the Christian community in this country. They have been attacked all over Northern India; their priests and nuns have been repeatedly attacked; their Churches and their schools have been vandalised; their Bibles have been burnt, and there has been a constant flow of """"hate literature"""" against the Christian community. All these are being done by mass organisations of the Sangh Parivar like the Bajrang Dal and the Vishwa Hindu Parishad, with the benign approval of this Government.
Sir, I am not going into the details of the attacks that are taking place, which have already been mentioned here. But can the Government dismiss it as """"stray incidents""""? Just because in the Church blasts, which occurred in some parts of South India, some fundamental organisations are involved, can you blame it entirely on the ISI? I do agree that all incidents which are connected with the Christian community are not communal. The ISI may, of course, be playing a part in these incidents. But the most important question is, how this sort of an atmosphere conducive for the attacks against the Christians and their institutions came about in this country? Who is responsible for creating this atmosphere of hatred? This vicious atmosphere of hatred against the Christian community, I tell you, is the creation of the Sangh Parivar.
They are the ones who are spreading false allegations against the Christians and have made the grounds fertile for attacking the Christian community.
Sir, the Christian religion in India is as old as the religion itself. It came to the coast of Kerala, as Shri George Fernandes knows very well, some 2000 years back. This community has greatly contributed to the progress of this country. But if you choose to view every minority community as an alien to our culture and alien to our country, and patriotism as synonymous with the majority religion, then I can tell you that you are going to preside over the disintegration of this country.
Sir the duty of any Government in a multi-religious and multi-ethnic country like India is to ensure safety of the minorities. They should not have the slightest feeling of alienation. It is the duty of every Government that rules over a country like India. But what will happen to this country when organisations, that are patently pro-Government, vitiates the atmosphere with their hate campaign against the minorities’ and the Government watches this as a silent spectator?
Sir, it is this Government that gives courage to these culprits who target the Christian groups and their places of worship. It is the Home Minister who gave the Bajrang Dal a clean certificate exonerating them from every act against the minority communities. This Government came to power by deliberately doing acts that would leave a lasting scar on our secular nation. This Government should own up responsibility for each and every incident of atrocity that has taken place against the minorities in this country.
Sir, this Government has not, till this date, come forward with an assurance that they will not permit a Ram Temple to be built in the place where the Babri Masjid was demolished. No responsible person in this Government has given an assurance. What does it mean? When the VHP calls a bandh, the very next day the militants in Kashmir, aided by Pakistan, attacks the innocent people in the Valley and on that very day only people belonging to the minority communities are attacked in various parts of the country.
Sir, this terrorist menace in Kashmir has been going on for the last so many years. Is the Government going to give a communal colour to these incidents? We are head and shoulders above Pakistan not because we have defeated them in every war we have fought with them. We are superior to Pakistan because we are a democratic country. We are a secular nation. Does this Government want us to emulate Pakistan or countries like Pakistan?
Sir, so my humble request is that the Government should not communalise our conflict with Pakistan. It is a political matter. It is a political conflict. What the Sangh Parivar is trying to do is to give these incidents a communal colour and attack the minority communities in our country.
Sir, what lessons should we derive from the happenings in our neighbourhood? What are the reasons for the ills in Sri Lanka? It is because the Tamil minorities, with the aid of the Government, were systematically attacked.
The happenings in Sri Lanka are a natural corollary of all the incidents which happened in Sri Lanka before. What happened in Yugoslavia? These incidents develop and come to a stage which allows foreign powers to intervene in the internal affairs of the country. The hate campaign which the Sangh Parivar is pursuing with impunity is very dangerous for the country. It should be prevented at any cost. This great country should not be a place for anyone who treats a fellow citizen as a second-class citizen because of his religion or of his faith. This country is known for its tolerance towards all faiths and religions, as has been pointed out earlier.
If the Sangh Parivar wants to make India homogenous, it is making a futile attempt. It is the diversity of this country which makes this nation great, which makes this nation unique among the comity of nations in the world. It is this character of the country which is being systematically attacked by the Sangh Parivar. Unfortunately, here is a Government which is here to condone each and every act of violence committed against the minority community in this country. I am sorry to say that the Home Ministry is now presided over by a person none other than the man who was instrumental in the demoliton of Babri Masjid. He has no moral authority to have the control of the fundamentalist elements in the country. The minority communities do not trust him.
This Government should come forward with a concrete proposal. The Government should come forward with the actions they are going to take against the criminals who are attacking the minorities in various parts of our country. On the one side the Prime Minister goes to the Holy Father and says that these are all sporadic incidents and on the other side when the Pope comes to India, his effigy is burnt by the organisation supporting this Government, and systematic hate campaign is conducted against the Christian community.
Fortunately for this Government and unfortunately for the country, there is a Minorities Commission which visits every place and gives a clean certificate to all these criminal organisations. There is a person in that Commission representing the Christian community. He is supposed to represent the Christian community but he is in the forefront of everything anti-Christian. He condones everything. From the beginning of the religion the name of Judas is associated with it. So, I think the community will bear with the actions of this man in the Minorities Commission. The Commission that is supposed to help the minorities, the Commission that is supposed to help in healing the wounds of the minority community is supporting the Government by every time giving a clean chit to the version of the Government.
The Bharatiya Janata Party is outspoken enough to say that they are against minorities. But there are certain other parties in the NDA Government which do not dare say so. My dear friend and colleague who himself raised this issue during the last Session of this House attacks the Christians now. The DMK party is represented here. Shri George Fernandes is sitting here. I think he is preparing himself to give a speech exonerating everybody including Bajrang Dal and Sangh Parivar. The people of this country will not pardon them.
They should act, at least, at this juncture preventing the Government and preventing the Sangh Pariwar against the attack they are committing on the minority communities especially the Christian community.
Sir, once again, I would request the Government to tell what concrete actions they are going to take to prevent this dastardly attacks committed against the Christian community in this country.
With these few words, I conclude.
SHRI PURNO A. SANGMA (TURA): Mr. Chairman, Sir, we, in our country, have the heritage of one of the oldest civilisations in the world. As has been already stated, our country is known for its tolerance, our country and our people are known for our commitment to secularism. Unfortunately, our life at the threshold of the third millennium has been marked by atrocities against minorities, particularly, the Christians and the Muslims.
It is a fact that the atrocities on minorities, particularly, the Christians since 1998, have been much more than the attacks cumulatively from 1947 to 1998. Therefore, there is a question mark. How is it that after the BJP-led Government came into being in our country, the atrocities on Christians have gone up? It is not merely the atrocities that is worrying us.
As far as I am concerned, there are five areas of concerns which I would like to point out to the hon. Home Minister. First is a geographical spread that a systematic attack on Christian community is not confined to any particular area or region, it is spread all over the world. Some reference has already been made to the meeting of our Prime Minister with the holy father Pope John Paul-II. We do not have any official information as to what transpired between the two leaders. But I did read in the newspaper that on the 24th June, 2000 when our Prime Minister came out after meeting the Pope and when he was asked by the media, he replied that "attacks on the members of the Indian Christians are only isolated acts and there is no organised campaign against them."
But the facts are otherwise. I was going through the reported incidents that took place since 1998, and I found that there are as many as 13 States, in the North, in the South, in the West, in the East, in the West, and in the North-East where there have been attacks on minorities. Now, if the attacks are taking place in the North-East and they are taking place in the North, in the South, in the West, in the East and in the Central part of our country, how can we say that attacks are isolated? They are not.
It is taking place all over the country.
The second area of concern is the severity of violence. Every type of crime that is described as grievous crime has been committed – housebreaking, theft, robbery, illegal detention, murder, arson, rape of nuns, desecration of places of worship, burning of the Bible, etc. Therefore, the severity of the violence is such that today the minorities in our country are certainly losing their faith in the Government. There is no doubt about this.
You may defend it in any manner you like; you may speak in any manner you like; you may quote from anywhere. You may quote here any type of statistics but what is important is the feeling of the minorities. What do the minorities feel about it? You cannot overcome the feeling of the people by mere statistics. The feeling today is, as Shri Suresh Kurup has said, that we are being treated as second class citizens in this great country of ours. Therefore, as you may try to do whatever you want to do – as the popular saying goes, `justice not only has to be done but it should also seem to be done’ – you have to bring confidence in the minds of the minority people of this country. Merely giving a good speech is not going to assuage the feelings of the minorities. Therefore, the matter is very serious.
The third area of concern is the connivance of the political parties and the connivance of political elements. Whether it is the Bajrang Dal, the VHP or the RSS, these organisations have been in existence for years and years. How is it that they did not operate in that scale before 1998? How is it that after 1998 these organisations are openly coming out and making all inflammatory statements? I have got with me all those statements. This would not have been possible had there not been a support from behind the political parties, by groups that are part of the political parties. Therefore, I think, the Government of India has a very important role to play.
The fourth area of concern is the complicity of the State machinery. Whenever an incident takes place, some inquiry is made outwardly. The State machinery is not serious to find out the real culprits. Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev has asked that if it is not the Bajrang Dal, the RSS, the VHP or the BJP, who has been doing it? Is it the ISI? I will come to the subject of the ISI later on but it is very important that we find the truth and that the machinery is geared up for that.
The fifth and the most important point that I would like to make is about the casual, technical and routine attitude in the replies of the hon. Minister of Home Affairs. This matter was raised in the last Session of Parliament. This matter was discussed during the Twelfth Lok Sabha. During the Twelfth Lok Sabha and the Thirteenth Lok Sabha, a number of Starred and Unstarred Questions have been asked. If you look at the replies given by the hon. Minister of Home Affairs, there is no difference. The same replies given during the Twelfth Lok Sabha have been given again.
The same reply has come for that. I have the latest reply. On the 25th July, hon. Home Minister, replying to Shri J.S. Brar and Shri Kamal Nath, had said that the incidence of violence against the Christians has increased to some extent. I do not know what does this ‘to some extent’ mean. He further said that the law and order is under the domain of the State Government and therefore, we have nothing much to say. I do not think, that is enough.
If you really take a serious note of what I had said about the geographical spread, the severity of the crime and the way the State machineries are functioning, I think, the Home Minister has to take it as much more than a routine matter. The Home Minister cannot escape from the responsibility, simply by saying that law and order is a State subject. It is something more than the State subject. I was wondering as to why such a thing is happening. What is the fault? What is the crime that the Christian community in India has committed? I have not been able to find out any reason.
I can tell the hon. Home Minister and I can declare it on the floor of the House that the Christian community in this country is a very very timid community. In fact, I have been blaming the Church leadership. I have myself been blaming the Church hierarchy as to why they made us very timid. I told them that they have never taught us to even fight for our rights. I told them that they always told us that if somebody gives a slap on the right cheek, we must turn the left cheek and say "Give me one more." They said that this is how we should do and we have been trying to do that. We have not harmed anybody in this country. If that is the case, why should anybody be against us? I do not know.
As a single community, we have contributed so much to this country. We have thousands and thousands of educational institutions. We have more than ten million students studying in Christian institutions and 95 per cent of them are non- Christians.
During the 12th Lok Sabha, when this matter was being debated, I remember, the hon. Home Minister, Shri Advani stood up promptly and said, "Do you know, Shri Sangma, I am also a product of St. Patrick School." Kumari Uma Bharati also stood up and said, "Do you know, Shri Sangma, in my house, I have the picture of Christ." "Come and see that I have a picture of Christ in my house", is what Kumari Uma Bharati said. If that is the attitude, why do these atrocities happen?
Dr. Malhotra has given us some hints. He said that the Pope had come here and spoke about harvesting of souls. He asked what is the meaning of harvesting of souls. I do not know whether Dr. Malhotra has read Bible or not. He feels that harvesting of souls means conversions. What is conversion after all? They are afraid of mass conversions. Where are mass conversions going on?
I do not know from where did Dr. Malhotra get the figures about Muslims, increasing from eight per cent to 12 per cent.
DR. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : They are figures given by the Government.
SHRI PURNO A. SANGMA : No. I am sorry. It is not. I think, you have not been given the correct picture. I have got the correct picture with me, which I have taken from the Census of India of 1991. … (Interruptions) You do not have to come to my rescue. I will do it myself.
This is the Census Report. According to 1961 Census, the percentage of Muslim community in India was 10.7; in 1971, it was 11.2; in 1981, it was 11.4 and in 1991, it was 11.7. This is what the Census figure is.
DR. VIJAY KUMAR MALHOTRA : Kashmir was not included in that. Including Kashmir it is 12 per cent. … (Interruptions) In 1951, it was eight per cent and now it is 12 per cent.
SHRI PURNO A. SANGMA : Come to Christianity. What is the population of Christians in India? In 1961, it was 2.4 per cent; in 1971 it was 2.6 per cent; in 1981 it was 2.4 per cent – from 2.6 per cent it has come down to 2.4 per cent; and in 1991 it is 2.3 per cent. Population of Christians are coming down and not going up. But you say mass conversion is going on. Because of this mass conversion in India to Christianity, our population has come down by 0.1 per cent.
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MIRYALGUDA): Mass re-conversion is going on.
SHRI PURNO A. SANGMA : We had hundreds of years of British rule in India. We had Portugese rule in Goa. We had French rule in Pondicherry. Still we are only 2.3 per cent. How is it? Where is the fear?
Let us take up North-East. They say the whole North-East has been captured by the Christians and that the people of North-East have been converted into Christianity that they have become anti-nationals. What is the picture in the North-East? North-East has got seven States. According to the Census figures, the Christian population in Arunachal Pradesh is 10.29 per cent; in Assam it is 3.31 per cent -- remember in Assam the Christian population is only 3.31 per cent -- in Manipur it is 34.1 per cent; in Meghalaya it is 64 per cent; in Mizoram it is 85 per cent; in Nagaland it is 87 per cent; and in Tripura it is 1.6 per cent. Out of the seven States, only in three States, the Christians are in majority and in the remaining four States, Christians are in minority. Then, how do you say that the entire North-East has been converted into Christianity? These are all unfounded fears. I do not know whether I should speak so much. Dr. Vijay Kumar Malhotra mentioned about protection to minorities. I am very happy that he mentioned about it. Of course, Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev has said who has started this protection to minorities. What does the Constitution of India say?
When I was the Speaker of Lok Sabha, that year happened to be the 50th year of our Independence. The House would remember that we had a special Session to commemorate the 50th year of Independence. At that time, a lot of foreign visitors and research scholars came to me to find out how India could preserve Parliamentary democracy for fifty years without any interruption, whereas many developing countries could not preserve their democracy. How could India preserve its democracy without interruption? A lot of research work is still going on. Whoever had met me told me that they are impressed with one thing, namely they were convinced that democracy in India could survive for fifty years without interruption because the Constitution of India has given enough protection and safeguards to the minorities and weaker sections of the people. Do not destroy it. Do not try to distort it. Protection to minorities is the secret of our success.
1800 hrs. Protection and safeguard to minorities is the secret of preservation of democracy in our country.
Prof. Malhotra talked about what you call, the 15-Point Programme and Minorities Commission. The whole House knows how the 15-Point Programme is working and how much benefit the minorities are getting out of the 15-Point Programme. I do not think I need to repeat it. I only want to say one thing. The National Commission for Minorities Act was passed in 1992. It replaced a Commission which was established in 1973. I have ascertained from the Government sources as well as from the Library that so far 12 Reports of the Commission have been tabled in both the Houses of Parliament. But unfortunately none of these 12 Reports have ever been discussed. Not even one Report has been discussed. Now, who is at fault? I do not blame the Government alone. I think the Opposition is also needed to be blamed. We only talk about minorities. I do not know how many of us have got copies of those 12 Reports. Twelve Reports have been tabled and not even one report has been discussed. I would like to get an assurance from the Home Minister that if not in this Session, in the next Session of Parliament, the reports of Minorities Commission would be discussed.
I would like to make one more point. I am not very much worried about atrocities. Prof. Malhotra, if you read the history of the Church all over the world, you will find that the history of the Church is nothing but the history of persecution. I am not worried about it. What I am worried about is that it is tarnishing the name of secular India outside. The Prime Minister was trying to justify what is happening in India when he met the Pope in Rome. I may inform you, Mr. Home Minister and my friends in the Treasury Benches that when I go abroad – and I do go abroad quite often – questions are asked to me about the atrocities committed in this country. It becomes very embarrassing even for me to reply. It is very embarrassing. I feel sad about it. I can inform you that as far as possible, I have been trying to defend our actions here. I have been saying that India is a secular country. What is happening is just a temporary affair perhaps and that India will return to secularism. I have been saying so. Therefore, what kind of image we are creating for India in the rest of the world. What kind of impact is it going to have on our foreign policy? Do you want to make all the Christians of the world our enemy? Do you think India can live in isolation in this global era? It has so many other implications. It is not merely a question of burning a Church here. Do we have the statistics how many temples are there in Europe? How many Gurudwaras are there in Europe? How many temples have been constructed in Africa? How many Hindus live outside India? Do you know that it can have some impact on them? Have we thought about our brothers and sisters who are outside India? A couple of years ago I went to a country called Croatia. In Croatia, there is a small town called Split. I stayed there for a day’s holiday to see the rural area. The Deputy-Speaker accompanied me. When I was walking in the street of Split town in Croatia, I found a lot of people gathering and watching something.
Out of curiosity, since I had gone there for walking, I thought let me see what is happening there. I went there. You know what was happening there! Hare Rama Hare Krishna was going on in that remote place of Croatia. It was so nice and so beautiful. I felt so happy and proud. Therefore, I think we should think of all these implications. If somebody feels that India can be ruled and India can survive just like that, I am afraid.
I would like to remind one more point for the benefit of the House. I would like to remind the speech of our former Prime Minister, Shri P.V. Narasimha Rao during the debate in the Special Session on 50 years of the freedom of India. He spoke about a future Cold War on the basis of what is popularly known as Huttington’s Thesis. It is written in a book called ‘Clash of Civilisations’ where he said that the future Cold War is not going to be between two sovereign nations. The future Cold War is going to be between two blocs – the Islamic Bloc on the one side and the Christian Bloc on the other side. God forbid that it does not happen. Suppose it happens and the world is moving towards that, then where do we stand? Where will India stand? If India is compelled by circumstances that either we have to identify with one of the blocs, either Islamic Bloc or Christian Bloc, then what is going to be our choice? It is good to keep that in our mind. It is good to keep that in mind as responsible leaders of the country.
I do not want to take much time of the House. There are many Members who want to speak on this subject. I had a lot of things to say. But may I, once again, request the Treasury Benches, the leadership there, to ensure that we uphold the secularism in this country. It is secularism and secularism alone which will strengthen the unity and integrity of this country.
SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHI (VISAKHAPATNAM): Mr. Chairman Sir, today is indeed a day for upholding the traditions of India and its secularism. India is the land of Buddha and Mahatma Gandhi. It is known for non-violence and tolerance. Our country is the largest democracy in the world. We are surviving for the past 50 years as a democratic country because of our traditions, thinking of our forefathers and non-violence that has been preached.
1809 hours (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair) Today, we are discussing about atrocities on minorities, particularly the Christian and the Muslim minorities. It is very tragic that the country is giving way for such incidents to occur.
Sir, the Southern States are always relatively calm, but recently some incidents of attacks on Christians have taken place in the States of Andhra Pradesh, Karnataka, Goa and Orissa. First, it started in Orissa which was ruled by the Congress Party, at that time. Then, the State of Karnataka is ruled by the Congress Party now, the State of Andhra Pradesh is ruled by the Telugu Desam Party and the State of Goa is ruled by a Christian Chief Minister. So, the trend is that it is not connected with any political party or they do not have any political motives. These attacks on the minorities are being carried out systematically in order to destabilise our country’s democratic system and our country’s faith in secularism. If we analyse the recent attacks which have taken place in Andhra Pradesh, particularly the tragic incident which took place in Guntur in Andhra Pradesh where incidents of looting and arson happened, we can find out that these things were all planned by Pakistani agents. It was found out and they have been caught. So, it is very wrong if you attribute these incidents to the RSS or any of its wings. They are not involved in any of these incidents. But without any basis, without truthfulness and without any reasoning they have been blamed by some political parties.
Sir, in certain cases, we should not load politics in our thinking. We have to live together in this country. We cannot throw away the Muslims, who constitute 12 per cent of our population, to any other country like the Pakistanis who have thrown away the Indians to other countries. We are neither interested to throw away the Muslims nor are we interested to throw away the Christians who constitute 2.3 per cent of our population. Our forefathers, who have written the Constitution of India, have clearly stated that our country is the first and foremost country in the world which upholds tolerance. We have to live together. The faith and religion should be confined to the household and it should not be brought to the streets by any political party, because once a particular political party shows its strength on the basis of a religion, then the other political parties will also get motivated to show their strength in the same fashion.
So, I strongly feel that to safeguard the unity of our country, we should all think about providing enough safeguards to the minorities so that they can live peacefully in this country. They should not have any feeling that India is not able to give them security. They should not feel that they are strangers in this country. They are also sons of the soil. They are also born in this country. They are living in this country since time immemorial. Now we cannot tell them that India belongs to only one community or religion.
Sir, I think, our country has provided facilities, more than any other country in the world, to the linguistic minorities or the religious minorities. They are enjoying certain facilities in this country, because, with a broad outlook and with great hear, we have given them special protection in language and we have allowed them to run educational institutions of minority status.
We have provided all these things to our brothers. In no other country in the world, they provide these facilities to any minority community. We have provided these facilities to see that they also come up and prosper along with other communities in this country. So, they should also realise that because of this country’s policies and democratic system, they have been given some special treatment and some special package . They should also utilise this package to come up in the society as good citizens and work together in the main stream.
Now, we cannot blame because some Indians – Hindus, Muslims or Christians - are involved in one or other cases. These are all acts of the miscreants. They have been planted in India by foroeign elements. The other day, most of them had been killed in Kashmir are Hindus. The Hindus were going for a religious ‘yatra’. But we have never stated that they have been killed by so and so persons. They have been killed either this way or that way by the miscreants. These elements are entering into this country. We have to have a break. Our hon. Minister of Home Affairs says that this is a law and order situation confined to some of the States. It is not like that. It is the unity and the stability of the country which should not be affected. It should be safeguarded by any means. In such acts, the hon. Minister of Home Affairs should think twice about how to combat the elements who are creating such unruly instances and committing atrocities particularly on minorities. If they create some chaos, if they create some such instances, there will be a disorder in the country. The people will think that this country is not stable to protect the minorities. So, I strongly feel that the hon. Minister of Home Affairs should take it into consideration and deal with them with a firm hand.
The Report submitted by Justice Wadhwa is also very clear that these instances have not been hatched by any community or religion. These are only the acts of miscreants. There have been more clashes in Andhra Pradesh during the period prior to the Telugu Desam rule. But nobody has interpreted them that these are the instances created by any of the minorities or political party. There have been religious clashes between the Hindus and the Muslims several times. But the State Government fought against such ruthlessly elements unitedly. So, we all should fight against these unruly miscreants unitedly instead of blaming one party or the other. Please do not start blaming each other, for example, the Congress Party blaming the ruling party, and the BJP blaming the Congress Party. Some of the hon. speakers have stated that there have been instances. I am not going into the past how the Babri Masjid was demolished. It was demolished during the Congress Party regime.
SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MIRYALGUDA): By whom? … (Interruptions)
SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHI : Is it not the inefficiency of the then Government?
SHRI RASHID ALVI (AMROHA): But you condemn it. … (Interruptions)
SHRI M.V.V.S. MURTHI : Everybody has to condemn it.
… (Interruptions) I am telling such instances. … (Interruptions) Every right-thinking man has to condemn such instances. Now also, we condemn it. Every right-thinking man and every political party have to condemn it.
But we should fight unitedly. Instead of blaming each other for these incidents, we should fight together and project a united image that India is one, that India is secular and that India is a democratic country. We can fight these elements only when we are reunited, we should give such a message to the other world. Then only our country will be strong, then only our minority brethren will be safe in this country.
So, I appeal to the hon. Home Minister to take stringent action and request him not to be callous. Some of the hon. Members have stated that he has dealt with these incidents in a very casual way. I do not think, he has dealt with these incidents in a casual way. But he should show some results also. His actions should be result oriented and he should try to stop all these things, at least, in future, so that our country, instead of discussing such issues in the House, can discuss issues like developmental activities; so that we can take our country to greater heights. Lastly, I would like to say that unitedly only we can fight these things.
श्री रामजीलाल सुमन (फिरोजाबाद) : महोदय, पिछले दिनों धार्मिक अल्पसंख्यकों पर जो अत्याचार हुए, उस संबंध में यह सदन गंभीर चर्चा कर रहा है। हिन्दुस्तान में वभिन्न जातियों और धर्मों के लोग रहते हैं। हमारा संकल्प है कि हम चाहे जिस धर्म को मानें, लेकिन दूसरे धर्म को मानने वालों को तकलीफ नहीं देंगे। यहां अगर किसी धर्म विशेष को मानने वालों के साथ अन्याय या अत्याचार होता है तो निश्चित रूप से यह चिन्ता का विषय है। आंध्रा, कर्नाटक और गोवा के गरिजा घरों में बमों के धमाके, उड़ीसा में फादर ग्रेम और उनके दो बेटों का कत्ल, पंजाब में सिख संगत के माध्यम से आरएसएस द्वारा सिख विरोधी प्रचार, …( व्यवधान)
श्री विनय कटियार (फैजाबाद) : कहां हो रहे हैं?
श्री रामजीलाल सुमन : आपके लिए तो कुछ हो ही नहीं रहा।…( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Katiyar, what is this? Please resume your seat and do not interrupt.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)* श्री रामजीलाल सुमन : आप मुझे अपनी बात कहने दीजिए।…( व्यवधान)
श्री विनय कटियार : आप ऐसे ही नहीं बोल सकते हैं।…( व्यवधान)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Katiyar, please do not pass running commentary.
श्री रामजीलाल सुमन : महोदय, उत्तर प्रदेश के मथुरा में और उसके बाद आगरा में ईसाइयों पर हमले और उनके साहित्य को जला डालने की घटना निश्चित रूप से गंभीर है। मुझे ऐसा लगता है कि बाबरी मस्ज़िद की शहादत के बाद पहले मुसलमानों को आतंकित करने का काम और फिर पूरे हिन्दुस्तान में क्रिश्चियन माइनोरिटीज़ में दहशत फैलाने का काम व्यवस्थित तरीके से हो रहा है। "अब की बारी ईसाई कौम सारी।" वभिन्न तरीके से यह प्रयास हो रहा है। मेरा मानना है कि सरकार का जो आचरण और चरित्र होता है, उसके चलते ही समाज का चरित्र एवं आचरण बनता है। यह सरकार साम्प्रदायिक तत्वों को हवा देने का काम कर रही है।
* Not Recorded.
महोदय, विश्व हिन्दू परिषद, बजरंग दल, दुर्गावाहिनी, आरएसएस, जो इनके मित्र संगठन हैं, उनकी हरकत १९९८ से लेकर २००० तक ज्यादा तेजी से बढ़ी है।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, अपने अन्य लायक दोस्तों की तरह मैं भी आंकड़ों में जाना नहीं चाहता हूं। आंकड़े मेरे पास भी मौजूद हैं। जैसा माननीय संगमा जी ने कहा कि आंकड़ों से महत्वपूर्ण यह है कि हम लोग क्या अहसास करते हैं और समाज में इन बातों का मनोवैज्ञानिक असर क्या होता है। पंडित जवाहर लाल नेहरू जी के जमाने से लेकर आज तक, आंकड़ों में अगर हम जाए तो चाहे साम्प्रदायिक सौहार्द का काम हो या विकास का काम हो, हर प्रधान मंत्री ने यही दावा किया है कि उससे ज्यादा बेहतर सरकार हिंदुस्तान में न बनी और न बनने की संभावना है।
इसलिए मैं आंकड़ों में जाना नहीं चाहता हूं। लेकिन मैं एक बात जरूर कहना चाहता हूं कि आज माइनोरिटीज के लोग अपने आपको सुरक्षित महसूस नहीं करते हैं। गृह मंत्री ने कहा कि इसमें तो दीनदार अंजुमन का हाथ है, पाकिस्तान की आई.एस.आई. का हाथ है। मैं पूछना चाहता हूं कि आपका खुफिया तंत्र क्या कर रहा है। आप यह कह कर बच नहीं सकते हैं कि इसमें पाकिस्तान का हाथ है। इसमें पाकिस्तान का हाथ है या नहीं, यह मैं नहीं जानता हूं लेकिन मैं इतना जानता हूं कि यह समस्या जो पैदा हुई है वह आपकी सोच, संस्कार और आचरण का परिणाम है।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, जिन सहयोगी संगठनों का नाम मैने लिया, वे समझते हैं कि उनकी हैसियत कानून और संविधान से ऊपर है। अभी आगरा में विश्व हिंदू परिषद की एक बैठक हुई थी। उसमें फैसला लिया गया कि कोई बनवाए या न बनवाए लेकिन जनवरी २००१ तक मंदिर बनवाने का काम पूरा हो जायेगा। यह भी कहा गया कि न केवल अयोध्या में बल्कि काशी और मथुरा में भी मंदिर बनेंगे। मैं पूछना चाहता हूं कि इन सब बातों का और इस भाषा का क्या अर्थ है? हमारे प्रजातांत्रिक देश में यह क्या हो रहा है?
उपाध्यक्ष जी, एक साध्वी ऋतंभरा हैं जिनको एक रुपये में ९९ वर्ष के लिए ४३ एकड़ भूमि को पट्टे पर दे दिया गया। विश्व हिंदू परिषद के लोगों को एक रुपये के पट्टे पर जमीनें दी गयी हैं। उपाध्यक्ष जी, इन जगहों पर बैठकर क्या कोई धार्मिक सहिष्णुता का काम, देश को एक रखने का काम होगा? ये वही लोग हैं जो देश को तोड़ने का काम कर रहे हैं। ऐसे ही तत्वों को प्रोत्साहित करने का काम भारत सरकार और उत्तर प्रदेश की सरकार कर रही है। भारत सरकार भी अपनी जिम्मेदारी से बच नहीं सकती है।
...( व्यवधान)... * * Not Recorded.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except what Shri Ramji Lal Suman says.
(Interruptions)* श्री रामजीलाल सुमन : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, यह जो राम की नगरी अयोध्या है, क्या यह सही नहीं है कि सेना के लगभग १० हजार सेवा-निवृत जो लोग हैं उनको अत्याधुनिक हथियार चलाने का प्रशिक्षण दिया जा रहा है। माननीय जार्ज फर्नान्डीज साहब चले गये हैं। मैं उनसे पूछना चाहता था कि क्या इन लोगों को प्रशिक्षण देकर पाकिस्तान के साथ जंग लड़ने के लिए आप भेजना चाहते हैं। पूरे हिंदुस्तान में अक्लियत को डिमोरलाइज करने के लिए यह काम किया जा रहा है। यह बहुत गंभीर मामला है और तकलीफ वहां होती है, माननीय गृह मंत्री जी मुझे माफ करेंगे।…( व्यवधान)
डॉ. मदन प्रसाद जायसवाल (बेतिया) : एयर-गन आधुनिक हथियार होती है क्या?
श्री रामजीलाल सुमन : आप जानें, आप आर.एस.एस. के लोग हैं। अखबारों में सब खबरें छपी हैं।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : आप मुझे संबोधित कीजिए, उनको रिप्लाई नहीं देना है।
श्री विनय कटियार : अयोध्या के विषय में इन्होंने जो कहा है उसका ये प्रमाण तो प्रस्तुत करें।…( व्यवधान) उपाध्यक्ष जी, मेरा संसदीय क्षेत्र है जहां का इन्होंने आरोप लगाया है। मेरा यह व्यवस्था का प्रश्न है। उस पर यह प्रमाण दें।
इन्होंने सार्वजनिक रूप से आरोप लगाया है और लोक सभा में आरोप लगाया है। मैं इसका प्रमाण दे सकता हूं।…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आपको जब बोलने का चांस मिलेगा उस समय अपनी बात कहना। अभी आप बैठ जाएं।
श्री विनय कटियार : इन्होंने गलत आरोप लगाया है।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: जब आपको चांस मिलेगा, उस समय आप रिफ्यूट करिए। यह कोई अनपार्लियामैंट्री बात नहीं है।
श्री विनय कटियार : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, या तो यह प्रमाण दें, नहीं तो मैं इस्तीफा देता हूं।
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)* * Not Recorded श्री विनय कटियार : यह एक व्यवस्था का प्रश्न है। इन्होंने गम्भीर आरोप लगाया है। यह सदन के सामने बात हो रही है और रिकॉर्ड में आ रही है।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आपका क्या प्वाइंट ऑफ ऑर्डर है?
श्री विनय कटियार : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, या तो इनकी कही बात रिकॉर्ड से निकाली जाए…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप अपना प्वाइंट ऑफ ऑर्डर बताएं।
श्री विनय कटियार : मेरे कहने का अर्थ केवल यह है क…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: केवल की बात नहीं है। आप रूल कोट करें।
श्री विनय कटियार : इन्होंने दस हजार लोगों की बात कही। या तो यह प्रमाण प्रस्तुत करें और यदि नहीं कर पाते हैं तो यह इस्तीफा दें। नहीं तो मैं इस्तीफा देता हूं।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप अपना प्वाइंट ऑफ ऑर्डर पहले बताएं।
श्री विनय कटियार : बात प्रमाणित होनी चाहिए। या तो आप इसे रिकॉर्ड से निकलवा दीजिए।…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: यह कोई प्वाइंट ऑफ ऑर्डर नहीं है।
…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप इस प्रकार इंटरप्ट न करें। यदि ऐसा करेंगे तो मैं आपका नाम लेकर कहूंगा। किसी बात की कोई लमिट होती है। आपने व्यवस्था का प्रश्न उठाया। मैंने उसे बताने के लिए कहा लेकिन आपने उसे नहीं बताया। यदि कुछ अनपार्लियामैंट्री होगा तो मैं उसे एक्सपंज करूंगा। आप क्यों चिन्ता कर रहे हैं? मैं यहां बैठा हूं। यदि ऐसा कोई आरोप लगाया गया है तो जब आपको बोलने का चांस मिलेगा उस समय आप उसे रिफ्यूट कीजिए।
श्री प्रकाश मणि त्रिपाठी (देवरिया) : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, यह उसी क्षेत्र से आते हैं।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: यदि यह उस क्षेत्र से आते हैं तो इसमें कोई व्यवस्था का प्रश्न उठाने की बात नहीं है। इन्होंने व्यवस्था का प्रश्न उठाया नहीं। आप टाइम वेस्ट न करें।
श्री प्रकाश मणि त्रिपाठी :यदि कोई कहता है कि आपके क्षेत्र से दस हजार लोग हथियार का प्रशिक्षण पा रहे हैं लेकिन वह उसका प्रमाण नहीं देता है तो यह ठीक बात नहीं होगी।…( व्यवधान)
श्री विनय कटियार : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं यह कहा रहा हूं…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: अभी आपको कुछ नहीं कहना है। आपकी बात रिकॉर्ड में नहीं जाएगी।
...( व्यवधान)... * श्री रामजी लाल सुमन : मेरा यह कहना था क…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप आरोप वगैरह लगाने की बात न करें। सीधे बात करें।
श्री रामजी लाल सुमन : मैंने श्री विजय कुमार मलहोत्रा की बात को बहुत गम्भीरता से सुना।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: आप सबजैक्ट की बात कीजिए।
श्री रामदास आठवले (पंडरपुर) : मेरा कहना यह है कि दोनों को इस्तीफा देना चाहिए…( व्यवधान)
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: श्री रामदास आठवले, यदि आपको कोई बात कहनी है तो मुझ से इजाजत लें।
श्री रामजी लाल सुमन : उन्होंने कहा कि मुख्य चिंता का विषय धमार्ंतरण का है। मैं धर्म के बारे में ज्यादा नहीं जानता। महात्मा गांधी, महर्षि दयानन्द सरस्वती, स्वामी विवेकानन्द ने यह कहा था कि यदि हिन्दू धर्म समानता का धर्म नहीं बन सकता तो मैं चाहूंगा कि यह धर्म ही नष्ट हो जाए। दूसरों की आलोचना करने के स्थान पर जब तक हम स्वयं अपने आप से नहीं पूछेंगे कि हमने कहां गलती की तब तक यह काम रुक नहीं सकता। इस देश का कैसा दुर्भाग्य है कि हम जिससे मंदिर बनवाते हैं, उसी के लिए मंदिर के दरवाजे बंद हो जाते हैं। यह कितनी दुर्भाग्यपूर्ण बात है? हम जिस के लिए कुंआ खुदवाते हैं,उसी को कुंए का पानी पीने के लिए मना कर देते हैं।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, जो ऊंच-नीच है, वर्ण-व्यवस्था है, अगर यही हाल रहा तो कनवर्जन को कोई रोक नहीं सकता। उसके लिये मुझे चार लाइन याद आ रही हैं रात का इन्तजार कौन करे, आजकल दिन में क्या नहीं होता, कुछ तो मजबूरियां रही होंगी, यूं कोई बेवफा नहीं होता।
मैं अंत में अपनी बात समाप्त करते हुये निवेदन करूंगा कि इसमें सरकार के संस्कार और उसके आचरण का सवाल है। हिन्दुस्तान का अल्संख्यक तब तक अपने को सुरक्षित महसूस नहीं कर सकता जब तक केन्द्र से श्री अटल बिहारी वाजपेयी की सरकार से इस देश को निज़ात नहीं मिल जाती।
* Not Recorded DR. (SHRIMATI) BEATRIX D’SOUZA (NOMINATED): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I would like to speak on the topic of this afternoon’s discussion in the context of human rights, democracy and secularism. I will not talk about atrocities because already atrocities have been spoken about earlier,everything is documented . I will not name names because I have no proof. However, I would like to articulate the fears of the Christian community.
At the time of Independence, the Indian Nation stood for political liberalisation, secularism and plurality. For Gandhiji equality of all religions was founded on the doctrine of Sarvadharma Sambhava. In recent times, however, there has been an attempt to forge a national identity and to impose this national identity on the nation. And that is the fear of the Christian community. Religious minorities are concerned that what is termed as "Hindutva" is being substituted for secularism. According to this doctrine of Hindutva India belongs to Hindus. India is both a Fatherland, Pitrubhumi and a holy land, Punyabhumi.
Recently, however, the hon. Home Minister has said that the BJP celebrates the multi-religious, multi-lingual and multi-ethnic diversity of Indian society, united by a cultural nationalism. The Supreme Court also has said that Hindutva can be defined as a way of life in the context of Indian culture and heritage. What is culture? Culture refers to the customs, traditions and the way of life of a particular community. In the context of human rights, every individual has a right to belong to a community and every community has a right to its culture and if you deny some individuals their culture or a community their right or a religious minority their rights, you are denying them human rights.
Majority-majority-ism is an attempt to make minorities assimilate into a larger culture and it is both morally wrong and politically hazardous. It is morally wrong because it negates the basic principle that in a democracy each person counts individually. It is politically hazardous because we have seen the politics of assimilation in the conflicts that have arisen round the world in Northern Ireland, in Kosovo and Sri Lanka.
In India religious minorities have constitutional guarantees that are in accordance with the U.N. Convention on Minority Rights and Human Rights. The duty of the Government at the Centre and the States is to protect the individual’s life and liberty and to safeguard the constitutional rights.
If the Organiser tends to misinterpret the Bible we have certain Christian sects which have their origin in the USA. Even in the USA, they are considered as bizarre. They issue inflammatory pamphlets calling for the conversion of everyone. They call for the conversion even of other Christians. The Indian church of the 21st Century is a pluralistic church open to all religions. It favours ecumenism and pluralism and most importantly it is an Indian Christian Church.
Sir, we have Christian roving Ambassadors who tell the Western world that 98 per cent Hindus are persecuting two per cent Christians. These roving Ambassadors do not represent Christians. We would like to make that very very clear. Not all Christians who say they represent Christians represent Christians. Many of them are just fanning the flames of whatever fires are already there. The Majority of Hindus accept Christians as their brothers and live in peace and harmony and the majority of Christians do not believe that the BJP led Government is sponsoring attacks on minorities.
Sir, the hon. Prime Minister has said on Independence Day:
"Let us not look for imaginary foes. We need to move beyond a policy of confrontation to a policy of conciliation and dialogue. Sir, with these few words, I thank you for giving me an opportunity to participate in the discussion.
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA (CANARA): Sir, I rise with a great deal of pain and hesitation. In all the years of my public life or even otherwise I never had to stand up and declare myself a minority, fighting for my existence or for my rights. I was proud always to talk about myself as Indian first and Indian last and never ever thought it necessary to talk about a community or about the insecurity of my own community. Unfortunately, over the last few years, one has begun to feel rather insecure and one wonders, at times, what crime we have committed to become the targets of a hate campaign which we as a minority community are unable to understand or comprehend.
Sir, I would start, of course, with the President’s message on Independence Day to the nation, calling for unity, understanding and the integrated approach to the nation’s problems. I would like to quote a few lines from the speech of the hon. Prime Minister who from the ramparts of the Red Fort said the Government would not tolerate activities of any organisation that spreads communal discord or incites violence and asked people of all faiths to refrain from creating `imaginary enemies’, and I quote-
"Religious intolerance and hate have never been part of India’s liberal culture. I appeal to the people of all faiths and castes not to create imaginary enemies… He said a few unfortunate incidents had spoiled communal peace and goodwill in some places and asserted that the Government would not tolerate such activities.
We are one in many and many in one. " he added This is a very noble declaration made by the hon. Prime Minister who heads the NDA Government. I must say that if words and actions coincided, then there would not be any need for a discussion of this kind in this House.
Sir, I wish to place a few figures before the House.क्योंकि बार-बार बोला है कि हम बड़ी बातें करते हैं। We are saying things for the sake of saying them. I am giving you official figures. From 1964 to 1966, there were 33 incidents of attacks on the Christian community and from 1997 to 2000, they went up to 184. Prof. Vijay Kumar Malhotra, I am not saying it for the sake of saying. I have got it from the Parliament Library. They are date-wise listed. They are available in the Library. I can give you the copy and I will send one copy to the hon. Minister of Home Affairs.
Between January and July, 2000, you have 52 incidents of attacks on the Christian community all over the country. These are the figures. Anybody can challenge them. I can produce the incidents, dates and places.
Here is another statement which is given in reply to a question in the Lok Sabha on 25th of July by the Home Ministry. This statement shows the number of communal incidents between 1998 and 2000. Here, I am talking about the communal incidents involving all communities, including the Muslims and the others. In 1998, the Home Ministry has listed 645 incidents and 2,120 injured; in 1999, they have listed 598 incidents and 2,017 injured; and in 2000, that is, in this half year, they have listed 234 incidents and 500 injured. There also figures for the dead. This is the statement laid on the Table of the House in the Lok Sabha… (Interruptions) This is only for six months, that is for the whole year. So, these have not declined. What I am trying to say is that, rightly or wrongly, in the country today, there is a sense of insecurity among the minorities. Wherever I go in the country, people ask me what is happening, why are we being targeted, what crime have we committed? I am concerned about all minorities, but I am talking particularly about the Christian community because we have always been a very disciplined, a very low-key, non-provocative community. As Shri Sangma said, we have been taught that if we are beaten on one check, we should give the other cheek. That is what Christ taught us. We have learnt that service and care of those sections which have been neglected for centuries have to be given attention in the best way we can. Thousands of our people are working round the country and yet… (Interruptions) आपको जो बोलना है बाद में बोलिये। मैंने मल्होत्रा जी की बात सुनी है। जहां नहीं सुननी थी, वहां बाहर जाकर बैठी। इसलिए आप शांति से बैठिये। Sir, I did not want to interrupt him, so I sat out. I did not want to unnecessarily provoke him. I want to know, are all these just law and order incidents, as the Home Minister would like us to believe? I can tell you, and I agree with Shri Sangma, that there have been occasions when Ambassadors at functions ask me: "Mrs. Alva, what is happening to the Christian community? Why is everybody attacking you?". I have always said: "This is our internal matter. India is secular and we are capable of looking after ourselves. We do not need any advice or any kind of interference from outside. We are proud to be secular. We are Indians and we will sort out our own problems without any help from anybody else. We do not want you fishing in troubled waters. We will look after ourselves." When we go abroad, same questions are asked and we give the same reply. We do not believe in making this a propaganda platform. But I speak today as an Indian citizen who is hurt. I feel suddenly that I am a second class citizen. What crime have I committed? Alvas have been freedom fighters. There are hundreds of others among us who worked and fought side by side with everybody else for the freedom of this country. But today we are made to feel that we are not as patriotic as others. We have to get certificates of patriotism from somebody on that side, maybe from my sister sitting there, who is a very good friend of mine. I do not know where to go to get myself accepted as an equal citizen, as a patriotic Indian. This is what hurts us. More than anger, I must tell you, it is the injustice and the pain which we minorities feel. I will show you the pamphlets. I have brought copies of the pamphlets which they have printed and are distributing. I have got photocopies of all of them. These are from Sahitya siddhu Prasthana. All this is English and Hindi literature, with the cross, the blasphemy and the attack on the Community all over the country. The pamphlets which are being printed, are going from door to door. We are being told that this is all imaginary. I have got so many of them. Shrimati Tavleen Singh, after she has seen the pamphlets, has at last written an article and I will quote it sooner or later. What is it all about? The article is: Hate campaign against Christians. These are editorials in the Papers.
These are not from the Catholic Churches, from the Catholic Bishops Conference. These are the editorials in the secular Press which all of us read, and you also read it. What for is this hit campaign? There are three orfour questions. Before that, I would reiterate what Shri Sangma said. What have we not done in this country? Here are the figures and I just want to briefly place these figures before you. The Catholics alone – there are 40 other denominations also, but Catholics are know well today – have 7,570 kindergartens and nursery schools covering 9.10 lakh and odd children, 4,638 primary schools, 9,414 secondary schools, 480 colleges, 63 medical and nursing colleges and six engineering schools all over the country. These are the figures of only one community. If I give you the figure of students who are passing through these institutions, it will be very high. Many of your children are studying in our schools. They come to me for admissions - I do not give names here – begging me a seat in the institution. … (Interruptions)
Today, they are being called missionary schools. I have got here a proforma to be filled up by the Christian schools asking them, which country they belong to, from which country they get their money and what is their affiliation. This is being asked of schools and colleges which have been running same for more than 100 years. … (Interruptions) Today, not only in Gujarat, in all the States, all our schools have been classified as missionary schools. Is there anything called a ‘missionary’ school in the Constitution? Here, they are called minority institutions. But today, after you have come, suddenly our schools have become ‘missionary’ schools and our colleges have become ‘missionary’ colleges. What is the definition of a missionary school or a missionary college? We have minority institutions. The Constitution has given us protection to run and manage them. For those in the Sangh Parivar, my friends on that side would get so excited. I am not mentioning your organisations, but I would just like to place before you the Constitution of India. I hope, at least, you will let me read this. The Indian Constitution gives freedom of conscience and free profession, practice and propagation of religion as one of the Fundamental Rights in article 25 and of course in article 19.
I am saying propagation is my right. If I propagate, I talk about the Congress Party and make speeches against you or against anybody else and try to convince people that what I am saying is right, I propagate my thinking, I propagate my religion, and I propagate my way of life. The socialist says that your whole system of running an economy is wrong while others say something else. If you are converted, you vote for them or you go with them. It is the right of everybody to convince another of his thinking. I am asking you this. Who are the people today who are talking of this? Who has stopped everybody else from going and working? They are being told that you serve them and you convert them. We do not serve and convert them. You go and have a survey of the schools and colleges in this country. I know how many of you have passed, including the Home Minister, from the Christian institutions. How many of you have been sought to be converted? How many of you have been converted in our institutions? Give me names, give me figures. I challenge you. How many of your children have been converted in our schools? When I am talking of our schools, I am talking of minority’s schools. There are Muslim schools, Christian schools and other schools. You choose to go to these schools. You want the education in these schools, you want the training and the character-building and the advantage of these schools और फिर बोलते हो. किसको कनवर्ट किया है ? Give me names. Have any of your children been converted in our institutions? Give me names of three children in Delhi whom we have converted when they went to our Christian schools. … (Interruptions) What is this propaganda? If you are suspicious, do not send your children to these schools. Nobody forces you. Who has converted your children? But the way it is going on, it is said `mass conversion’. मैं पार्लियामेंट में बैठती हूं। कल को मलहोत्रा जी बोलेंगे कि हमको भी कनवर्ट करने की कोशिश कर रही हैं। Sir, it took me about 4 years to get Prof. Malhotra to agree to my sports programme when I was the Minister for Sports. इनको कनवर्ट करने के लिए, उस प्रोग्राम में कितनी मुश्किल हुई, लेकिन आज बोल रहे हैं कि अच्छा किया, अच्छा हुआ। But my point is that do not be suspicious of everybody around you.
श्री मोहन रावले : महोदय, मैं गवर्नमेंट आफ इंडिया की रिपोर्ट बताना चाहता हूं।
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rawale, you are a senior Member.
… (Interruptions)
श्री मोहन रावले : मैडम, आपने पूछा है, इसलिए मैं बताना चाहता हूं। आपने संसद से सवाल किया है।… (Interruptions) इन्होंने पार्लियामेंट से पूछा है, इसलिए पार्लियामेंट का कोई भी सांसद जवाब दे सकता है। आपकी परमीशन से मैं बताना चाहता हूं कि १९५१ से १९६१ तक क्रिश्चियंस २७.४ परसेंट बढ़ गये। …( व्यवधान)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : I am addressing the Chair; I am not addressing you. You can speak, when your turn comes. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except Shrimati Margaret Alva""""s speech.
(Interruptions)* श्रीमती मार्ग्रेट आल्वा : आज आपको इन्दिरा गांधी की याद आ गई, बहुत अच्छा हो गया। इन्दिरा गांधी ने शिव सेना के बारे में जो बोला था, वह भी बोलिये। … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Rawale, if she yields, then only you can speak. Otherwise, how can you speak?
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except Shrimati Margaret Alva""""s speech.
(Interruptions)* SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : They cannot keep on interrupting me, when I am speaking. I am not yielding to them. … (Interruptions)
* Not Recorded SHRI SATYAVRAT CHATURVEDI (KHAJURAHO): Sir, are they speaking with your permission?
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have not given any permission, and he is interrupting on his own.
… (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA: Sir, I want a reply from the hon. Home Minister. I am not taking the replies from these people. I am not concerned with them. I am addressing the Chair, and the Home Minister. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except Shrimati Margaret Alva""""s speech.
(Interruptions)* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: As you know, when she yields, then only you can seek clarification. That is the system that we are following. When she is not yielding, how can you speak?
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : Sir, we are a disciplined and service-oriented community. Shri Sangma gave the figures, and I am only repeating them. We are the only community in this country whose population has gone down over each Census. The figures that I have are based on your Census and not mine. It is based on the Census conducted by the Government of India and, yet, we are being told that we are increasing and multiplying, that we are converting everybody everywhere.
Christianity has been here from the time of Christ. You had the Portuguese rule; then the Dutch and the French came, and all of them are supposed to be Christians; they were all there. My point is, over 2,000 years, we have remained 2.4 per cent with all the patronage you talk about. I am asking you, why is 82 per cent of the country""""s population afraid of two per cent of us? What crime have we committed? हम लोग दो परसेंट हैं, you are 82.17 per cent. और फिर भी, you are afraid that we are a threat to the country; we are anti-national. मेरे पास जो यहां पर है, जो यहां कागज पड़े हैं, उनमें से मैं २-३ पढ़ूंगी, some of the things that are being said. The whole thing is that a campaign of hatred and suspicion is being created. I am not saying that the Hindu community is doing it. Today, I pay tribute to my countrymen that if this country is secular, it is because the overwhelming number of Hindus is secular, and they are committed to secularism. It is the mad fringe of some organisations which is creating this atmosphere, which is embarrassing the Prime Minister, and I know is embarrassing its NDA partners also, but they do not have the courage to speak out here.
1900 hrs. I am asking you, when would you put sense into these organisations that are tarnishing, not only, the image of this country but also of your Party and of your leadership? At some point of time you should stand up and say, `thus far and no further’. The hon. Prime Minister has already said that no more is he going to tolerate these things and is going to take action against them. Yet, we know what is happening. It is being said that everything is being done by the ISI and Pakistan. But how can the Government rope in those extremist groups when the Government cannot rope in their own extremist groups, with whom they are associated? How can the Government take a stand when they are not able to rope in their own people? I am not talking for the sake of talking. We have been told that we are foreigners अभी-अभी बजरंग दल से कॉल निकली है। They talk about the second Quit India Movement’... (Interruptions) हम सब मिशनरीज बन गए, हमें भी मिशनरीज बना दिया। This has been said in a Press Conference. They say that this is the second Quit India Movement against them. This has been said by Dr. S.K.Jain, the national Convenor. He has said, `they are helping separatist forces and we will compel them to leave India by virtually launching a Quit India Movement against them’… (Interruptions) They say that they do not have the moral … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shrimati Alva, which paper are you quoting from?
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : Sir, I am quoting from the Asian Age. I am quoting a person by name Shri S.K.Jain. He is the General Secretary of the Bajrang Dal… (Interruptions) I can quote from Press reports. It is a public document.
Sir, he says, `they do not have the moral right to stay in India’. This has been said in a Press Conference.
कुमारी उमा भारती (भोपाल) : जिसका नाम ले रहे हैं, वह यहां नहीं है।
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: She is quoting from a Paper. That is why I asked her about the paper from which she was quoting and all those things… (Interruptions) SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : If you are interested I am laying these papers on the Table of the House… (Interruptions)
श्री विनय कटियार : चेयर से ही यह व्यवस्था दी गई थी कि अखबार से कोट नहीं कर सकते।
कुमारी उमा भारती : हो सकता है बाद में उसने खंडन किया हो।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : ऐसे बोलेंगे तो मैं अलाऊ नहीं करूंगा। उन्होंने पेपर से कोट किया है इसीलिए मैंने उसका नाम पूछा था।
श्रीमती मार्ग्रेट आल्वा : मैं पेपर से नहीं एक और चीज से कोट कर रही हूं, आप डिनाई करें। श्री बी.एल. शर्मा ने कहा है, वे इस हाउस के सदस्य भी रह चुके हैं। He has said this and I am quoting what he has said. Justifying the attacks on the minorities he has said, `these are the result of the anger of patriotic Hindu youth against the anti-national forces’. तो हम एंटीनेशनल भी बन गए, फॉरनर भी बन गए। जो बोलना है, बोल देते हैं।
He also has been quoted the same statement in The Tribune, as made by Shri S.K.Jain. He has quoted others also… (Interruptions) All I am saying is that these statements are being made; they are repeatedly printing them and are circulating them, but what is the Government doing? If this hate campaign is allowed to go on, then everybody, any anti-social element can take advantage of this and can attack the minorities… (Interruptions) यह भी बोलने के लिए है, प्रिंटिड है, इसमें नाम है, फोटो है, यह फोटोकापी है, मेरे पास ओरिजनल भी है। ये सब पेम्फलेट आपने निकाले हैं। `The politics of subversion – the Church’; `Religious conversion’ and `Hindu Vivek Kendra’. Each one of them is bringing out inflammatory documents. Is the Home Minister aware of it? Are these things coming to your notice through the IB? Are these matters coming to your notice through the intelligence agencies? Every time you talk of intelligence failure कारगिल में इंटेलिजेंस फेल्योर हो गया, कश्मीर में भी हो गया, यहां भी क्या इंटेलिजेंस फेल्योर है ? वे नहीं देते, मैं इतनी बड़ी फाइल दे दूंगी। These contain the incidents in the country, the material that is being circulated and the new draft Constitution that has been circulated by your youth wing for a `Hindutva’ India. The document that has been prepared by you is with me. You have circulated it at your last Convention. There is a pamphlet signed by Shri Advani that brings out the new features that are required. I have spoken about it in Parliament and I have also presented it in Parliament earlier. What I am saying is, what are we heading for?
Sir, the Government, 50 years after freedom, has set up Constitution Review Committee. They want to change the Constitution; they want to do something else, maybe.
Now, I have some papers here with me. I am not quoting these things. These are already there in the papers … (Interruptions) I have The Pioneer, this is supposed to be the paper of the Government in many ways, and the headlines of the paper says, `VHP kicks off a row over Christian schools’; `VHP re-conversion drive’; `VHP and Bajrang Dal burns copies of the Bible’. These are the headlines मुझे कोई कोट करने की जरूरत नहीं है, सब पेपर हैं। , then `Delete special minority rights, says the VHP’. Then, there is a whole editorial on ‘The mockery of the Bajrang Dal’. रोज जब लोग पेपर में पढ़ते हैं।
Sir, what is its impact on the feeling of unity and secularism in this country? How would you have liked somebody doing this to you all the time? Nobody would like it. I am asking the Government, what crime have we committed that we should be targetted in this way?
Sir, the other argument that has been put out against us is that we get foreign money. The Government could have a debate on this because all money comes through the RBI.
The statement issued by the RBI shows that the VHP and other Hindu organisations are getting more money as compared to all the Christian organisations. But that is nothing wrong; that is a patriotic way of collection of money! These figures are given by the RBI, Sir, and I will lay them on the Table of the House. It has been officially stated as to how much money is coming to which organisation through the RBI. However, only the Christians are targeted. Everything comes through the RBI with the permission of the Government. One has to register his organisation with the RBI. वह भी गलती है तो हम सब स्मगलर हैं। हम सब जेब में पैसे डालकर ले आते हैं।…( व्यवधान)
श्री मोहन रावले : इंदिरा जी ने कहा था क मिशनरीज के पास बाहर से पैसा आता है, ...( व्यवधान)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : They say that we are anti-national. I leave it to the Home Minister. If he has any proof that any one of us is involved in anti-national activities and any of us is getting money from abroad without naming the sources, let him prosecute us and send us to jail. We are prepared to go by the law. But this kind of a malicious campaign is not correct.
Here is an official proforma that is required to be filled by us. This is circulated by the Gujarat Government. It contains items like ‘Name of the educational institution’, ‘To which country does your organisation, or school, or college belong to’, ‘amount received from that country’, ‘amount received from Union or State Government’, etc. Every single school has to fill up these three pages and convince the Government there that we are above board. After these many years of being in this country, today suddenly there is a suspicion in their minds and they are asking us to fill all these proformas.
DR. NITISH SENGUPTA (CONTAI): It has happened during Emergency also. … (Interruptions)
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : You were sitting in Congress and advising the Government at that time. I know how much advice you have given to the Congress Government. Do not talk about that now. Please let us not get into an argument over it. आपकी एफलिएशंस आज एक सीट के लिए उधर होंगी परंतु हमारे साथ कितना काम किया है, मैं जानती हूं। I have been a Minister and I know enough about it. Let us not get into it.
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please wind up now.
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA: I am sorry, Sir. I will finish shortly.
Now there is another propaganda going on. I have seen these pamphlets which say that in the North-East Indian soldiers are being killed by the Christian insurgents. They say that it is a battle between the forces and the Christians and that the Christians are killing our soldiers. What happened in Kargil? Did not Christians die side by side; did not Muslim soldiers die side by side the Hindus and the Sikhs? Now they say that suddenly we are killing the soldiers in the North-East. Insurgency has nothing to do with these issues. It is a political issue. It is a battle they are fighting. You deal with them as you have to but do not communalise even that and say that Christians are killing the troops in the North-East. I do not understand the arguments that are being put forward. Our soldiers are dying in Sierra Leone; they are dying in Kosovo; we are sending them everywhere. Some of them die in the North-East; some die in Assam; and some die in Kashmir. Why should we minorities be blamed for that? We all know how many of them have died in Punjab. Was that because of the minorities? I do not understand these arguments.
Sir, I do not want to politicise the issue. The basis of our unity is diversity. The day you try to destory it, we will fall apart as a nation. Our forefathers have shown it to us; Indian history has shown it to us. Sitting together we have faced challenges as one people. Today if you try to classify us into patriotic and nonpatriotic it would not . If is not the interest of the country. क्या हो रहा है?
अभी किसी ने कहा, गांव में क्यों जाते हो? अर्बन एरिया में काम करो। I will tell you why. It is because when you work with the exploited, the tribal people who have never had a voice, your whole social system gets shaken. You want them to stay where they are. You do not want them to stand up and speak for themselves. Why did the Scheduled Caste people go to Buddhism. इंसानियत की बात करते हैं। मैं माननीय प्रधान मंत्री जी से कह रही हूं कि देश के गरीब, शैडयूल्ड कास्ट और शैडयूल्ड ट्राईब्स के लोग इंसानियत चाहते हैं। They want the dignity of being treated as human beings in the villages and in the backward areas.
Go and work with them. Who is stopping you? You have so many temple trusts, you have so many public trusts. Send your people to go there. Let them work there. Thousands and thousands can go and work. There is still more work to be done.
हम लोग बहुत छोटे हैं, समुद्र में बूंद के समान। कहते हैं, हम चलें आपके साथ। चलिए, गांव में काम करिए। Go and work with the leprosy patients. Go and work with the AIDS patients whom nobody wants to touch. Go and work with the orphans, the abandoned children on the street. We work with them. And, for having worked with them, we have been called ‘instigating trouble’.
I was in the Home Ministry. I know, so many cases are there. For example, in the backward areas of Bihar, tribal areas in U.P., Madhya Pradesh. What are the charges? They are not priests or nuns but they are young people who are organising labour, organising the tribals against liquor, the land rights. They are all branded as naxalites and locked up. I say that they have the political patronage with the connivance of police. Why? Because these people are being organised to fight against all this. Anybody who supports them is called a naxalite. Arey baba, everybody who talks for them is an anti-national. उनको रहना है, ऐसे रहना है। सब ठीक हो जाएगा।
Sir, all I am saying is `hate begets hate and unless we learn to live in peace and accept each other.’ MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please Conclude now.
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : I am concluding now.
As Mrs. Stains, after that whole incident, said in true Christian spirit, "Father forgive them for they know not what they have done." This is the spirit.
As Shri Sangma said, we are not afraid of attacks on us. Christianity all over the word has thrived on persecution, on the blood of our martyrs. The more you have killed, the more Christianity has spread. We are not afraid. We may be two per cent. We are prepared to pay the price. But you will see, in this country, the Christians marching in silence with black badges.
As I said, we sat the whole day outside the Rajghat on the eve of the Independence. What did we ask for there? We asked for forgiveness and acceptance, that we may all live as one people and make this nation great. That was our crime, not taking revenge or reacting with violence.
This is the spirit in which I appeal to the hon. Home Minister and to my colleagues in Parliament. We may belong to different places, different religions but we still are one. I may tell this august House that both my daughters-in-law in my House are Hindu girls. I have not converted them. They are not converted. They stay with me. One is the Rajput girl and the other is the Coorgy girl. They stay with me. My only sister-in-law is married to a Muslim. What difference does it make? इन्सानियत की बात स्टेज पर कहते हैं। आप रोजाना यह बात करिए। ठीक हो जाएगा।
Finally, Sir, the slogan of the Independence Movement was:
हिन्दू-मुस्लिम-सिख-ईसाई, सब हैं, भाई-भाई अभी इसके साथ बहन-बहन बोलिए। But we were one. That was the slogan of Mahatma Gandhi. Sir, I conclude with these words from Tagore and I think, this should really be the theme today as we enter the new millennium: "Where the mind is without fear and the head is held high, the knowledge is free;
where the world has not been broken up into fragments of narrow domestic walls;
where the words come out from the depth of truth;
where tireless striving stretching its arms towards perfection; where the clear stream of reason has not lost its way into the dreary desert sand of dead habits; where the mind is led forward by thee into everlasting thought and action into that heaven of freedom;
my father, let my country awake."
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now, Kumari Uma Bharati.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except Kumari Bharati.
(Interruptions)* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Ramdas Athawale, please resume your seat.
* Not Recorded.
कुमारी उमा भारती (भोपाल) : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मुझे इस बात की बड़ी खुशी हो रही है कि मुझे श्रीमती माग्रेट आल्वा जी के भाषण को सुनने का मौका मिला। मैं उनकी बहुत इज्जत करती हूं। सदन में जो प्रसंग प्रस्तुत हुआ है, यह बहुत ही चिन्ता का विषय है, क्योंकि मैं उनकी इस बात से सहमत हूं कि जो मौजूदा आंकड़े हैं, वे यह बताते हैं कि देश में साम्प्रदायिक तनाव हो रहा है और इतने वर्षों में क्या स्थिति रही है।
मैं मार्ग्रेट आल्वा जी की बात से सहमत हूं, भले ही आंकड़ों में कमी आई हो, लेकिन क्रिश्चियंस के ऊपर अटेक के मामले कुछ समय से बढ़े हैं। इसके पहले के मामलों का प्रकार दूसरा होता था, लेकिन अभी के प्रकार में क्रिश्चियंस के ऊपर हमलों की संख्या निश्चित रूप से पहले के वर्षों की तुलना में कुछ ज्यादा है। मैं इसलिए इन आंकड़ों का यहां जिक्र कर रही हूं। मुझे कुछ और भी कहना था, क्योंकि आल्वा जी बोल रही थीं इसलिए मैं चाहती हूं कि वह मेरी बात को ध्यान से सुनें। क्रिश्चियंस के ऊपर अटेक के मामलों में, साम्रदायिक झगड़ों की घटना की संख्या में जो कमी आई है, ये दोनों बातें आपस में जुड़ी हुई हैं। १९९१ में १७२७ साम्रदायिक झगड़ों की घटनाएं घटीं, उसके बाद १५३६ घटीं। १९९३ में १०४२,१९९८ में ६४५, १९९९ में ५९८ और २००० में २३४ हुईं। जो साम्रदायिक झगड़ों और तनावों की संख्या में अचानक कमी आई है और साम्रदायिक सदभाव दो वर्षों में बढ़ा है,…( व्यवधान) ये आंकड़े बोल रहे हैं, मैं नहीं बोल रही हूं।
मैं आल्वा जी की बात से सहमत हूं कि साम्प्रदायिक झगड़ों की संख्या का नम्बर कम हुआ है, लेकिन पिछले एक-डेढ़ साल में अचानक ईसाइयों और हिन्दुओं के बीच में झगड़े को चर्चा का विषय बनाने की कोशिश की गई। जिसमें उड़ीसा में ईसाई पादरी और उसके बच्चों की जघन्य हत्या हुई। वह एक ऐसी घटना है, जिसमें सब जगह हमारा सिर शर्मीन्दगी से झुक गया। मैं आपको बताना चाहती हूं कि यह षडयंत्र है। इसलिए अब की बार निशाना हिन्दुओं और ईसाइयों के संबंधों को बनाया जा रहा है। इससे पहले मुसलमान और हिन्दुओं के बीच में तनाव पैदा करके देश में अस्थिरता पैदा की जाए, देश में विभाजन की स्थिति फिर से निर्मित की जाए, इसकी कोशिश हुई। भाजपा के बारे में हमेशा यह डर दिखाया गया कि जब भी इनकी सरकार बनेगी तो यहां के सब मुसलमानों को पाकिस्तान भगा दिया जाएगा, लेकिन भाजपा और शिवसेना की सरकार पांच साल तक महाराष्ट्र में रही, मुंबई या महाराष्ट्र का एक भी मुसलमान कह दे कि मुझे इसलिए महाराष्ट्र से बाहर भागना पड़ रहा है, क्योंकि यहां भाजपा या शिवसेना की सरकार है। उत्तर प्रदेश में एक भी मुस्लिम कह दे कि मैं इसलिए उत्तर प्रदेश छोड़ रहा हूं, क्योंकि यहां भाजपा की सरकार है।
महोदय, पांच साल तक दिल्ली में भाजपा की सरकार रही, एक भी मुस्लिम भाई कह दे कि मुझे दिल्ली इसलिए छोड़नी पड़ रही हैं, क्योंकि मैं मुसलमान हूं और यहां भाजपा की सरकार है। मैं अमरनाथ गई थी, यद्यपि उसका रेफरेंस यहां जुड़ता नहीं है, लेकिन जुड़ता है। संयोग से १४ अगस्त को मैं अमरनाथ में थी और १५ अगस्त को श्रीनगर में थी। जब मैं अमरनाथ के मंदिर में दर्शन करने के लिए गई तो मुझे आश्चर्य हुआ कि वहां एक पुजारी ठाकुर, एक ब्राहमण और एक मुसलमान है। वे मुझे मिले और उन्होंने कहा कि बेटी, हमारे कैम्प में चलो, हम आपको कैहवा पिलाएंगे। वे बड़े बुजुर्ग हैं। महोदय, एक तरफ ऐसा वातावरण बनाया जाता है कि कश्मीर के मुसलमान भारत के साथ नहीं रहना चाहते, लेकिन ऐसा नहीं है। मेरे साथ वहां की सरकार ने जो व्यक्ति लगाया था, वह मुसलमान था। वह मुझे कहता था कि आप में मुझे खुदाई नूर दिखता है, इसलिए मैं आपकी बहुत इज्जत कर रहा हूं। मैं देख रही थी कि वह दूसरों की तुलना में, जैसे वह दूसरे वीआईपीज़ की इज्जत नहीं करता था, लेकिन वह मुझे बहुत प्यार दिखा रहा था और मेरी इज्जत कर रहा था। यद्यपि यह बात रेफरेंस के बाहर हो जाएगी, लेकिन मैं बताना चाहती हूं कि यहां के एक अखबार में जिक्र आया, जब पहलगाम में यात्रियों पर हमले हुए, जम्मू-कश्मीर की पुलिस के टेंट के अंदर से और सुरक्षा बलों के टेंट के अंदर से हमलावर आए। इस बात को लेकर जम्मू-कश्मीर की पुलिस को बहुत दुख है कि हम आतंकवादियों के साथ सहानुभूति रखते हैं। उन पर जो यह आरोप लगाया गया है, इससे उनका मनोबल गिरा है।
इसलिए मैं यहां उपस्थित सभी सदस्यों और प्रेस के अपने बंधुओं से कहूंगी कि जम्मू-कश्मीर के बहुसंख्यक लोग मुसलमान हैं, लेकिन वे आतंकवादियों के साथ नहीं है। वे आतंकवादियों के साथ वैसे ही लड़ रहे हैं जैसे अन्य सुरक्षा बलों के जवान लड़ रहे हैं। उनकी भी पत्नियां विधवाएं हो रही हैं और उनके भी बच्चे अनाथ हो रहे हैं।
सर, आतंकवाद की एक उम्र होती है और उस उम्र के बाद आतंकवाद खुद अपनी मौत मरने लगता है। कश्मीर में आतंकवाद की उम्र पूरी हो गयी है और अब उसके मरने का वक्त आ गया है। जब कोई मरता है तो उसके लिए कोई अच्छा पंडित भी तो चाहिए और माननीय अटल बिहारी वाजपेयी जी के हाथों से कश्मीर के आतंकवाद का संस्कार होना है।
ऐसे मौके पर जब भाजपा-नीत सरकारें प्रदेशों में रहीं और वहां पर भी साम्प्रदायिक दंगे नहीं हुए, हिंदू-मुस्लिम के संबंध नहीं बिगड़े। केन्द्र में हमारी सरकार के होते हुए भी और माननीय आडवाणी जी के होते हुए भी, जिन पर अयोध्या का केस चल रहा है ,जब देश में हिंदुओं और मुसलमानों के संबंध नहीं बिगड़े और जब कश्मीर में आतंकवादियों के साथ बात करने की बात आने लगी और ऐसा लगा कि ऐसा रास्ता निकल आयेगा और कश्मीर की समस्या का समाधान होगा और हिंदू-मुस्लिम संबंध अच्छे होंगे, उसके बाद एक नयी बात शुरू हो गयी कि अब हिंदुओं और ईसाइयों के बीच में कैसे तनाव पैदा किया जाये।
माननीय संगमा जी ने अपने भाषण में मेरा जिक्र किया है। मैं तो किसी को बताती नहीं हूं कि मैं किसकी पूजा करती हूं। संयोग से वे आर.एस.एस. पर एक आक्षेप लगा रहे थे और जैसे माननीय सुमन जी ने आरोप लगा दिया कि आर.एस.एस. के लोग सिखों के खिलाफ नफरत भड़काते हैं। माननीय सुमन जी भी यहां मौजूद नहीं हैं, वे बोल कर चले गये हैं। उनको मालूम नहीं है कि १९८४ के दंगों में जब दिल्ली में कांग्रेस के वर्कर्स सिखों को जला रहे थे, उनके मुंह में पेट्रोल डाल कर आग लगा रहे थे और उनके बच्चों को जलते हुए पेट्रोल के टैंकरों में फैंक रहे थे, उस समय सिखों को बचाने का काम संघ कार्यालय में हुआ था। स्वयं सेवक अपनी जान हथेली पर रखकर सिख महिलाओं, बच्चों और पुरूषों को बचा रहे थे। सदन एक जिम्मेदारी वाला स्थान है।… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: She is not yielding. No. Please take your seat.
… (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Satyavrat Chaturvedi, if she is yielding, then you can do it. She is not yielding.
… (Interruptions)
KUMARI UMA BHARATI : I will not yield, Sir. … (Interruptions)
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: She is not yielding. How can I give the floor to you?
… (Interruptions)
कुमारी उमा भारती : सर, मैं यही निवेदन आपके सामने करना चाहती हूं कि इसी प्रकार का नफरत का वातावरण कैसे हिंदुओं और ईसाइयों के बीच में बने, कुछ लोग ऐसा चाहते हैं। मेरे कमरे में जीसस क्राइस्ट की तस्वीर रहती है। मैं कृष्ण के साथ में क्राइस्ट की भी तस्वीर अपने कमरे में रखती हूं। ये चीजें किसी को बताने की नहीं होती हैं। धर्म बहुत व्यक्तिगत चीज होती है। इसे आप किसी पर थोप नहीं सकते हैं और न आपको यह अधिकार है कि आप यह कहें कि मैं अमुक धर्म को मानता हूं तो मैं आपसे बेहतर हूं और आप खराब हैं क्योंकि आप अमुक धर्म को मानते हो। मुझे मेरे धर्म ने यही सिखाया है। मैं इस बारे में एक शेर कहूंगी "सजदा ये इश्क की तस्दीक गवाही के लिए, खाक माथे पर लगी हो ये जरूरी तो नहीं ।" हम सजदा करते हैं इसके लिए यह जरूरी तो नहीं है कि हम माथे पर खाक लगी हुई दिखाएं। धर्म दिखावे की चीज नहीं होता है। मैं आज का दिन बहुत दुर्भाग्य का दिन मानती हूं कि ऐसी बहस में ईसाई की तरफ से ईसाई बोले, हिंदूं की तरफ से हिंदू बोले और मुसलमान की तरफ से मुसलमान बोले। अगर आप इस देश को सेक्यूलर मानते हैं तो फिर ईसाइयों की तरफ से हिंदुओं का पक्ष लिया जाना चाहिए और हिंदुओं की तरफ से ईसाइयों का पक्ष लिया जाना चाहिए। मार्ग्रेट आल्वा जी अगर यहां पर बोलेंगी तो यह अच्छी बात नहीं है, उमा भारती अगर हिंदुओं के पक्ष में बोले तो यह अच्छी बात नहीं है। सदन को अगर अपना सेक्यूलर करैक्टर रिफ्लैक्ट करना है तो इस परम्परा को थोड़ा बदलिये। मैं तो आपको कहती हूं और सदन में मैं कई बार यह प्रस्ताव रख चुकी हूं और एक हिंदू होने के नाते मैं इस प्रस्ताव को रखने का अधिकार रखती हूं और कोई हिंदू इस पर कोई आपत्ति नहीं करेगा क्योंकि हिंदू धर्म ही ऐसा धर्म है जो रिफोम्र्स को स्वीकार करता है। समाजवादी पार्टी के प्रवक्ता एक बात बहुत अच्छी बोल रहे थे कि अभी भी बहुत सारे लोगों को मंदिर में जाने नहीं दिया जाता है। मैंने खुद देखा है, लेकिन उनको मंदिर में ले जाया जाए, इसकी भी कोशिश करने वाले लोग हैं।
वह इस बात के लिए लड़ते-मरते हैं कि उन्हें मन्दिर में क्यों नहीं जाने दिया जाता। एक समय ऐसा था जब कहा जाता था कि महिलाओं को ओउम नहीं बोलना चाहिए, वेद नहीं पढ़ना चाहिए, गायत्री मंत्र नहीं जपना चाहिए लेकिन अब महिलाएं ओउम बोलती हैं, गायत्री मंत्र जपती हैं, वे गायत्री हवन में बैठती हैं, वेद पढ़ती हैं। उनको कोई रोक नहीं सकता। जो उन्हें रोकता है उसकी निन्दा होती है। तीन-चार साल पहले जगन्नाथ पुरी के शंकराचार्य ने कह दिया कि स्त्रियों को वेद पढ़ने का अधिकार नहीं है। ऐसे में पूरे हिन्दुस्तान के हिन्दुओं ने एक स्वर में उनकी निन्दा की और कहा कि उन्होंने गलत बात कही। ऐसे रिफॉर्म हिन्दुओं में देखने को मिल सकते हैं। इसलिए जो धर्म रिफॉर्मेटिव होता है, रिफॉर्म उसका वैलकम करता है और रिफॉर्मर्स को हेल करते हैं। मैं यह बात इसलिए नहीं कह रही हूं कि मैं हिन्दू हैं। मैंने जगन्नाथ पुरी के शंकराचार्य की इस बात के लिए निन्दा की थी। मैंने सवाल किया था कि उन्होंने ऐसा क्यों कहा? उनके किसी प्रतनधि ने बताया कि स्त्रियां यदि वेद मंत्र पढ़ेंगी तो उनके यूटर्स पर डैमेजिंग एफेक्ट पड़ेगा। मैंने कहा कि यदि पुरुष वेद मंत्र पढ़ेंगे तो उनके हार्ट पर डैमेजिंग एफेक्ट हो सकता है। इसमें स्त्री और पुरुष के बीच कोई भेद नहीं होना चाहिए। मेरे स्टेटमैंट की प्रशंसा की गई थी। जब मैंने उनकी आलोचना की तो मेरे खिलाफ फतवा जारी नहीं हुआ, मुझे कोई मारने के लिए नहीं आया, मुझे किसी घर में छुप कर रहना नहीं पड़ा। मेरे स्टेटमैंट की प्रशंसा की गई। हिन्दुओं और ईसाइयों के बीच जो तनाव पैदा करने की कोशिश हो रही है, मैं उस पर बाद में आऊंगी। हिन्दुओं के मन में कोई ऐसी बात नहीं आनी चाहिए जिससे उन्हें कोई दुख पहुंचे। मेरी बात का कोई बुरा न माने और " हो" करके खड़े न हो जाएं। जगन्नाथ पुरी एक ऐसा स्थान है जहां विधर्मी का प्रवेश नहीं होता। अमरनाथ में एक मुस्लिम पुजारी है। हिन्दू इस बात को बड़े गर्व से कह रहे हैं। उन्हें इस बात की प्रसन्नता है। क्या कोई ऐसा प्रस्ताव रखने की कल्पना कर सकता है कि मक्का व मदीना में एक हिन्दू पुजारी पहुंचा दिया जाए? यदि कोई ऐसा प्रस्ताव रखेगा तो उसका क्या परिणाम निकलेगा? मैंने जो कहा है, हो सकता है मेरी पार्टी को वह अच्छा न लगे। हिन्दू सैकुलर हैं। उनका इस बात के लिए सम्मान होना चाहिए।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं स्कूल में ज्यादा नहीं पढ़ी हूं। बायोलॉजी का प्रोफेसर एक्सपैरिमैंट करने के लिए लैब में मेंढ़क, केंचुए और खरगोश लाता है। एकसपैरिमैंट के लिए शेर नहीं लाए जाते हैं। हिन्दू को ऐसा न लगे कि सैकुलरिज्म के सारे एक्सपैरिमैंट्स मेरे ऊपर होने हैं क्योंकि यदि उसे केंचुए, मेढ़क और खरगोश के दर्जे पर रखा जाएगा तो उसके मन में यह बात आएगी। यदि हम उसका बार-बार मजाक उड़ाएंगे और उसके सैकुलरिज्म को हेल करने की जगह पर कुचलेंगे, उसका अपमान करेंगे, हंसी उड़ाएंगे उसका यह परिणाम होगा कि उसे लगेगा कि मैं केंचुआ, मेढ़क और चूहा हूं इसलिए मेरे ऊपर एक्सपैरिमैंट हो रहा है, मुझे चीर-फाड़ के लिए लैब में ले जाएंगे, यदि मैं शेर बन कर दहाड़ने लगूंगा तो मेरे साथ ये सब होना बंद हो जाएगा।
मैं सन्यासी हूं। मैंने एक बहुत बड़े सम्प्रदाय से सन्यास की दीक्षा ली है। मैंने जिससे इसकी दीक्षा ली, वह दक्षिण भारत के बहुत बड़े आचार्य माने जाते हैं। मैं समस्त हिन्दुओं की तरफ से एक प्रस्ताव रखती हूं। मुझे पता है कि मेरे प्रस्ताव का कोई विरोध नहीं करेगा क्योंकि हिन्दू रिफाम्र्स को वैलकम करते हैं। इसलिए मेरे प्रस्ताव का हिन्दुओं की तरफ से विरोध नहीं होगा। मैं चाहती हूं कि वह प्रस्ताव हमारी बहन मार्ग्रेट आल्वा जी, संगमा जी की तरफ से आए, हमारे चाचा बैठे हैं, उनकी तरफ से वह आए। वह प्रस्ताव है कि हम हिन्दुस्तान में धर्म की बात खत्म कर दें। जिस का जहां मन हो, वह वहां जाए। इस देश में न कोई हिन्दू, ईसाई, मुसलमान कहलाए। हम ऐसे नागरिकों का निर्माण करें जो न अपने आप को हिन्दू कहे। अपने नाम के आगे कोई ऐसा शब्द प्रयोग न करे जिससे धर्म का परिचय मिलता हो। कोई न खां लगाए , न शर्मा लगाए, न डिसूजा लगाए। वह कोई ऐसा शब्द न लगाए जिससे धर्म की पहचान हो। जिस का जहां मन हो, वहां वह जाए। मैं चर्च जाती हूं। मेरा मस्जिद में जाना मुश्किल होता है क्योंकि यदि मैं वहां जाऊंगी तो लोग मजाक समझेंगे, उसे गम्भीरता से नहीं लेंगे, मेरी भावना का सम्मान नहीं करेंगे।
मैं चर्च में जाती हूँ, मुझे अच्छा लगता है। मैं यह प्रस्ताव रखती हूं कि भारत में हम ऐसे इन्सान का निर्माण करें जिसमें हिन्दुओं का उपकार हो, ईसाइयों की सेवा हो और मुसलमानों का विश्वास हो, बौद्धों की करुणा हो और जैनियों की अहिंसा हो। इसलिये एक ऐसे आदमी का निर्माण करें जिसमें सभी धर्मों के गुण विद्यमान हों। उस व्यक्ति की किसी धर्म के नाम से पहचान न हो । अगर सारा सदन इस बात के लिये तैयार हो तो हम सारे देश में प्रचार करें लेकिन मुझे पता है....
श्री प्रियरंजन दासमुंशी (रायगंज) : यह प्रस्ताव ६० साल पहले गुरुदेव रवीन्द्रनाथ ठाकुर ने दिया था, इसलिये मैं इसका आदर करता हूं।
श्री सत्यव्रत चतुर्वेदी : इस प्रस्ताव का कोई विरोध नहीं करेगा। सारा सदन इससे सहमत होगा।
श्री प्रियरंजन दासमुंशी : मैं चाहता हूं कि पूरा सदन इस प्रस्ताव का समर्थन करे।
कुमारी उमा भारती : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, हमारी दीदी और प्रियरंजन दा इस प्रस्ताव का अभिनन्दन करते हैं, उसके लिये धन्यवाद। अब मैं यह बताना चाहती हूं कि मारग्रेट दीदी लिट्रेचर पढ़ रही थी और उन्होने बताया कि ईसाई मिशनरी के खिलाफ जहर उगला गया है लेकिन मैं वही लिट्रेचर पढ़कर बताना चाहती हूं कि किस प्रकार हिन्दुओं के बारे में कहा गया है। शायद आप भी इस लिट्रेचर की निन्दा करें।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, खजुराहो से श्री सत्यव्रत जी कांग्रेस के टिकट पर सांसद चुने गये हैं जो मेरी पूर्व कास्टीटुवंसी है । मध्य प्रदेश में राजगढ़ जिला है। वहां एक स्कूल में घटना घटी। स्कूल के सारे बच्चे भोपाल आये।…( व्यवधान) आप मेरी बात ध्यान से सुनें। उसके बाद आप मुझे जो दंड देना चाहे, मुझे स्वीकार है। उन बच्चो ने प्रेस और पब्लिक के सामने कहा कि किस प्रकार स्कूल के प्रिंसीपल जो ईसाई हैं, ने गीता और रामायण की निन्दा की है, राम को शैतान कहा है, कृष्ण को एड्स का मरीज कहा है क्योंकि वे औरतों के रसिया थे, लुच्चा-लफंगा और चरित्रहीन था। उस समय न तो कांग्रेस पार्टी की तरफ से और न ही सपा,बसपा,भाकपा, माकपा आदि के किसी व्यक्ति ने इस कृत्य की निन्दा की। इसका परिणाम क्या निकला? हिन्दुओं को लगा कि वे एक केंचुए के समान है जिसका मजाक उड़ाया जायेगा। तब कोई नहीं बोला। मेरे धर्म की निन्दा की जायेगी तो कोई नहीं बोलेगा। सिर्फ आर.एस.एस. या वी.एच.पी. के अलावा और कोई नहीं बोला। उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मेरे पास लिट्रेचर मौजूद है। उसमें यह भी बताया गया है कि साईं बाबा पागल आदमी है, माता अमृत आनन्दमयी मैंटली रिटार्टेड हैं जिनको लाखों लोग अपना गुरु मानते हैं और देवी मानते हैं।
श्री सत्यव्रत चतुर्वेदी : वे महा विकृत लोग हैं जिसने यह बात कही है। हम कहते हैं और हमारी पार्टी आडवाणी जी से कहती है कि यदि कोई ऐसी बात करता है तो उसके खिलाफ सख्त कदम उठाया जा सकता है। उसके खिलाफ घोर सख्त कदम उठाया जाये।
SHRIMATI MARGARET ALVA : Please take action against them. I would request the Home Minister to arrest those persons who have said this.
श्री संतोष मोहन देव (सिल्चर): आपने बहुत अच्छी स्पीच दी है, इससे नीचे मत जाओ।
कुमारी उमा भारती : मैं अब आपको बताना चाहती हूं कि जिन लोगों पर कार्यवाही हुई है, वे लोग पकड़े गये हैं, उनके संगठन का नाम दीनादार अंजुमन है। वे ऐसे राज्य से नहीं पकड़े गये जहां बी.जे.पी. की सरकार है बल्कि वे कर्नाटक से पकड़े गये हैं। मैं आज दिन में दो बजे की न्यूज टी.वी. पर देख रही थी उसमें किसी एअरफोर्स के अफसर का जिक्र किया गया, उसका नाम मेंशन नहीं किया गया, उसको भी इस कनेक्शन में पकड़ा गया है कि वह ईसाइयों के खिलाफ घृणित प्रचार करने के लिये लिट्रेचर बांट रहा था। वह एजेंट का काम कर रहा था । शायद रात की न्यूज में उस आदमी का नाम आये जिसमें उसकी एक्टिविटीज खुल जायें।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, आज इस देश में अस्थिरता पैदा करने की नई चाल है। पिछले ५० साल से यह चाल चली गई कि हिन्दुओं और मुसलमानों में कैसे झगड़े हों?
मुसलमानों के मन में कैसे इनसिक्युरिटी पैदा की जाए। लेकिन इस देश के उदारवादी मुसलमानों की नीति रही है। वे मुसलमानों को समझाते रहे हैं और उसका परिणाम यह निकला कि मुसलमान इस देश के साथ जुड़े रहे, वे भड़के नहीं।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, जब मैं श्री फारूख अब्दुल्ला की स्पीच सुन रही थी तो मेरे रोंगटे खड़े हो गये। उसका एक वाक्य मुझे नहीं भूलता, आप विश्वास करिये मुझे रोना आ गया। फारूख अब्दुल्ला साहब भाषण दे रहे थे और वह पाकिस्तान को आगाह करते हुए कह रहे थे कि वह भी एक मुसलमान हैं, वह भी नमाज पढ़ने वाले एक मुसलमान हैं, २४ कैरेट के मुसलमान हैं, २२ कैरेट के मुसलमान नहीं हैं। वह कह रहे थे कि हम हिंदुस्तानी मुसलमान थे और हम हिंदुस्तानी मुसलमान रहेंगे, न हम कभी पाकिस्तानी मुसलमान थे और न कभी पाकिस्तानी मुसलमान होंगे। जब उन्होने यह बात १५ अगस्त की अपनी स्पीच में कही, तो वहां बख्शी स्टेडियम में बहुत थोड़े लोग थे, क्योंकि आपको पता है कि वहां कितना तनाव था। वहां लोगों ने जिस प्रकार ताली बजाई, वे सब मुसलमान थे, उससे ऐसा लगा कि वे सब उस सेन्टीमेंट को ईको कर रहे थे, जो फारूख अब्दुल्ला साहब बोल रहे थे। पिछले पचास सालों में हिंदू और मुसलमानों के बीच तनाव पैदा करने की कोशिश सफल नहीं हो सकी, क्योंकि पाकिस्तान के अलग हो जाने के बाद भी बहुत बड़ी संख्या में मुसलमान इस देश में रह गये और जो मुसलमान यहां रह गये, वे इसलिए नहीं रह गये कि महात्मा गांधी, जवाहरलाल नेहरू, इंदिरा गांधी, राजीव गांधी, मार्गेट आल्वा, चंद्रशेखर, वी.पी.सिंह,, जार्ज फर्नान्डीज या आडवाणी जी उनकी रक्षा करेंगे, वे इसलिए यहां नहीं रहे। वे मलिट्री और पुलिस के सहारे भी नहीं रहे, बल्कि वे यहां इसलिए रहे क्योंकि पाकिस्तान के मुसलमानों से ज्यादा भरोसा उन्हें अपने हिंदू पड़ोसियों का था। इसीलिए उन्होने यह फैसला लिया कि उन्हें पाकिस्तान नहीं जाना है. उन्हें भारत में ही रहना है और बहुत बड़ी संख्या में वे यहां रह गये। उनका यहां रहना कुछ लोगों के लिए एक बड़ी चुनौती बन गया और कुछ लोगों ने इस बात की पूरी कोशिश की कि अब उन मुसलमानों का इस्तेमाल किया जाए। लेकिन ऐसा नहीं हो पाया। भड़काऊ भाषण दिये गये, लेकिन वे तूल नहीं पकड़ पाये। यहां तक कि पार्लियामेंट में भी भाषण दिये गये। हमारे चाचा बैठे हैं, वे ऐसे-ऐसे भाषण देते हैं कि अगर कुछ लोगों का बस चले तो पूरे देश में लोग भड़के जाएं। लेकिन वे नहीं भड़के। उन्हें अपनी रोजी-रोटी से वास्ता होता है, उन्हें इनके भाषणों से वास्ता नहीं होता है और वे लोग नहीं भड़के। ५० साल में जब यह कोशिश बेकार हो गई तो अब यह दूसरी कोशिश शुरू हुई है और वह कोशिश यह है कि ईसाई बहुत ही शांतप्रिय समुदाय रहा है। कोई उनकी देशभक्ति पर संदेह नहीं कर सकता। मैं कौन होती हूं सर्टफिकेट बांटने वाली, उन्होंने कहा हमें आपसे सर्टीफिकेट नहीं चाहिए, हमें आपसे लाइसेंस नहीं चाहिए। देशभक्ति का लाइसेंस नहीं होता, देशभक्ति की परख होती है। जब अवसर आते हैं तो हाथ में तिरंगा लेकर अपनी कुरबानी दे दी जाती है, वह देशभक्ति की परख होती है, इसका लाइसेंस या सर्टीफिकेट कभी नहीं होता है। वह तो वक्त आता है जब माता बलिदान मांगती हैं और जब हम अपना शीश बलिवेदी पर आगे रख देते हैं। वही हमारी देशभक्ति का लाइसेंस होता है, वही सर्टफिकेट होता है। देशभक्ति का लाइसेंस या सर्टीफिकेट बांटने वाले हम कोई नहीं है। आप इन घटनाओं को समझिये, इन घटनाओं की तह में जाइये।
उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, एस.के.जैन और बी.एल.शर्मा ने क्या कहा, उनको अखबार में कितना छापा, उसमें कुछ एडीशन हुआ। मैं मीडिया के लोगों से भी कहूंगी कि इस प्रकार के स्टेटमैंट की अगर अतिरंजना हो जाए तो वह देश के लिए बहुत हानिकारक होता है। देश में दो लोगों का रोल बहुत जिम्मेदारी का है - एक नेता और दूसरा पत्रकार। इन्हें अपने रोल को बहुत गंभीरता से समझना होगा। अगर किसी भी स्टेटमैंट की जरा भी अतिरंजना हो गई और हमने अपनी निजी खुन्नस निकालने के लिए थोड़ी अतिरंजना करके उसे छाप दिया तो उसके क्या परिणाम निकलेंगे। मुझे पता नहीं एस.के. जैन ने जो कहा है, वही छपा है या उसमें थोड़ा एक्जेजरेशन हुआ। बी.एल.शर्मा ने जो कहा वही छपा या उसमें थोड़ा एक्जेजरेशन हुआ। लेकिन मुझे एक बात मालूम है कि दारा के मामले में यह कहा गया था कि वह बजरंग दल का आदमी है, वह आर.एस.एस. का आदमी है और एक सैपरेट इंक्वायरी कमीशन जो किसी भी प्रकार से पोलिटीकली इंफ्लुएन्स्ड नहीं था, जब उसने यह रिपोर्ट दी कि दारा का इन्वोल्वमैंट न आर.एस.एस. से था और न बजरंग दल से था, फिर उसके बाद अब ये दूसरे प्रसंग शुरू हो गये। इसलिए मैं सरकार से और माननीय होम मनिस्टर साहब से निवेदन करूंगी कि इन घटनाओं की जांच में देरी मत करिये तथा बिल्कुल अलग-अलग भारत के कोने-कोने में एक-एक घटना को टिक करके, टारगेट बनाकर इन सब घटनाओं की जांच करानी चाहिए। जैसे झाबुआ की घटना में हुआ था। झाबुआ में जब घटना हुई तो कहा गया कि क्रिश्चियन नन्स पर हिंदुओं ने बलात्कार करवाया, आर.एस.एस. ने बलात्कार करवाया, लेकिन क्या निकला, उसमें आधे ईसाई निकले और आधे कांग्रेस के लोग निकले और नन बेचारी…( व्यवधान)
श्री सत्यव्रत चतुर्वेदी : बिल्कुल गलत। उमा जी, हम आपके प्रस्ताव से सहमत थे…( व्यवधान)
हम आपके प्रस्ताव से सहमत थे कि जिसने हिंदुओं के ऊपर आक्षेप लगाये उसके विरुद्ध कार्रवाई हो। मैं आपके प्रस्ताव से सहमत था। मैं पूछना चाहता हूं ...
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except what Kumari Uma Bharati says.
(Interruptions)* कुमारी उमा भारती : मैं अंत में गृह मंत्री जी से एक निवेदन करके अपनी बात खत्म करना चाहती हूं। …( व्यवधान) तुलसीदास ने रामचरितमानस में एक चौपाई कही है। उसको कहकर और उसका अर्थ बताकर मैं अपनी बात खत्म करूंगी और चाहूंगी कि माननीय आडवाणी जी इस चौपाई को ध्यान से सुनेंगे क्योंकि ये घटनाएं बहुत डैलीकेट हैं। मैं सदन के सभी सदस्यों से यह निवेदन करूंगी कि इन घटनाओं को बहुत गंभीरता से लें। इनको देश में अस्थिरता पैदा करने की बहुत बड़ी चाल समझिए और आर.एस.एस. और बजरंग दल के नाम का अगर प्रमाण मिलेगा कि आर.एस.एस. और बजरंग दल का कोई व्यक्ति उनमें था तो मुझे आप कहेंगे तो मैं अपने हाथ से उन्हें फांसी लगा दूंगी यहां बोट क्लब पर। लेकिन पहले प्रमाणित होने दीजिए। ऐसा न हो कि दारा जैसा झूठा प्रचार निकले। क्योंकि अयोध्या में भी मंथरा और कैकयी जैसे लोग थे। मैं नहीं कहती हूं कि हर ऑर्गनाइजेशन में सौ प्रतिशत अच्छे लोग होते हैं। जो गलत होगा और पकड़ा जाएगा तो उसको हमारी सरकार बख्शने वाली नहीं है और एक बार अगर वह सामने आ गया तो उसको हम लोग भी छोड़ने वाले नहीं हैं। हम और विनय कटियार जैसे लोग उसको अपने हाथ से सज़ा देंगे यह प्रामाणिक मानिये। लेकिन मैं रामचरितमानस की चौपाई कहकर अपनी बात खत्म करूंगी। वह मैं गृह मंत्री महोदय के लिए और केन्द्र सरकार के लिए बोल रही हूं।
* Not Recorded " जमि शिशु तन वृण होय गुसाईं। मात चिराउ कठिन की नाईं॥"
जैसे सुन्दर और कोमल बालक के शरीर में कहीं फोड़ा हो जाए और वह फोड़ा उसके शरीर में ज़हर बनकर फैलने लग जाए तो माता इतने तरीके से उसको चिरवाती है कि बच्चे के अंग पर कोई दाग भी न आए, बच्चे को पीड़ा भी न हो, लेकिन वह फोड़ा भी चीरकर अलग करती है। मैं गृह मंत्री जी से निवेदन करूंगा कि भारत माता के कोमल शरीर पर जो नये फोड़े--फुन्सियां, जो नये धब्बे लग रहे हैं, हिन्दुओं और ईसाइयों के बीच में तनाव पैदा करने के लिए और यह साबित करने के लिए कि हिन्दू ईसाइयों पर हमला कर रहे हैं, इन घटनाओं को जैसे माता बच्चे के फोड़े की चीर-फाड़ करती है , उसी प्रकार एक माता की कोमलता के साथ केन्द्र सरकार हिन्दू और ईसाइयों के बीच में सद्भाव बना रहे, देश में स्थिरता बनी रहे इस प्रकार से समस्या का समाधान करे।
अंत में मैं एक निवेदन करूंगी कि २१वीं सदी आ गई है। आप एक निवेदन करिये कि इस धरती पर आनन्द हो, शांति हो, प्रेम हो और हम सब ऐसी घटनाओं पर राजनैतिक रोटियां न सेंकें। राजनीति करने के लिए और बहुत सारे मामले हैं। दूसरे मामले सदन में लेकर आइए क्योंकि ये मामले अंतर्राष्ट्रीय स्तर पर भारत की छवि खराब करते हैं और इसलिए इन मामलों को इस प्रकार से प्रोजेक्ट न करें कि पूरी दुनिया में भारत की छवि खराब हो। यह डैलीकेट मामला है। इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करती हूं।
श्री सत्यव्रत चतुर्वेदी : इतनी कोमलता से ऑपरेशन हो कि आर.एस.एस. के शरीर पर कहीं कोई दाग न आने पाए। इतना ध्यान रखें कृपा करके लेकिन इतनी ममता तो हो। …( व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अल्वी : जनाब डिप्टी स्पीकर साहब, मैं आपका शुक्रगुज़ार हूं कि आपने मुझे इस अहम मुद्दे पर बोलने का समय दिया।
MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The reply will be given tomorrow at two o’clock. All the speakers will participate in the debate today itself.
SHRI PRIYA RANJAN DASMUNSI : Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, by making this announcement, you are reducing the number of Members present in the House. If you had not made this announcement, everybody will be waiting here to listen to the reply. Now, many Members will go away after making their speeches.
श्री राशिद अल्वी : सर, आज यह हाउस मज़हबी अकलियतों पर और लिंग्वस्टिक माइनॉरिटीज़ पर इस मुल्क के अंदर हुए ज़ुल्म की चर्चा कर रहा है।
१९४४ बजे(श्रीमती मार्ग्रेट आल्वा पीठासीन हुईं) मैं तजज्जुब में हूं कि अपनी बात कहां से शुरू करूं। पिछले ५३ साल की तारीख का एक-एक पन्ना अगर पलटने की शुरूआत करूंगा तो न हाउस के पास इतना वक्त है और कहानी लंबी हो जाएगी।
लेकिन मैं अपनी बात शुरू करता हूं मल्होत्रा साहब की उस स्पीच से जिसमें उन्होंने कहा कि दुनिया के किसी भी मुल्क के अंदर भी अकलियतों को वे फेसलिटीज नहीं दी जाती हैं जो हिन्दुस्तान के अन्दर अकलियतों को दी जाती हैं। इसमें उन्होंने चर्चा की मायनारिटीज कमीशन और मायनारिटी फायनेंश्यल इंस्टीस्टयूशन्स की।
मैडम, मुझे तकलीफ के साथ कहना पड़ता है कि सबसे ज्यादा तकलीफ की बात इस मुल्क के अंदर यही है कि कुछ लोगों ने इस मुल्क के अंदर अपने आपको समझ लिया है कि हम देने वाले हैं और कुछ लोग लेने वाले। यह कहना कि हिन्दुस्तान की अकलियतों को हमने ये-ये दिया, ठीक नहीं है। आप कौन होते हैं देने वाले? इस मुल्क के अंदर कौन किस को देता है? इस मुल्क के अंदर सब बराबर के हैं।
मैडम, मल्होत्रा साहब ने पाकिस्तान के मदरसों की बात कही और उनका हिन्दुस्तान के मदरसों से मुकाबला किया, मुझे बहुत तकलीफ हुई। उस समय मैं कुछ कहना चाहता था, तो मेरे कुछ दोस्तों ने कहा कि जब भी पाकिस्तान का नाम लिया जाता है, तो आपको एकदम तकलीफ होनी शुरू हो जाती है, यह कितनी तकलीफ की बात है। मुझे नहीं मालूम कि संघ परिवार के कितने लोगों ने हिन्दुस्तान की आजादी की लड़ाई लड़ी है, लेकिन, होम मनिस्टर साहब चले गए, मैं उनसे कहना चाहता हूं कि कागजात निकलवाकर देखिए, मेरे फादर फ्रीडम फाइटर थे। उन्होंने इस मुल्क की आजादी के लिए लड़ाई लड़ी थी। जब राष्ट्रीय स्वयंसेवक संघ अंग्रेजों का साथ दे रहा था, तब हिन्दुस्तान की आजादी के लिए हमारे आबाओ अजदाद ने हिन्दुस्तान की लड़ाई लड़ी थी और यदि आपको यकीन न हो, तो आप रिकार्ड देख लें।
…( व्यवधान)
श्री मोहन रावले : मैडम, जो इन्होंने कहा है- "राष्ट्रीय स्वयंसेवक संघ अंग्रेजों का साथ दे रहा था" वह रिकार्ड से निकाला जाए।…( व्यवधान)
श्री अशोक प्रधान : सभापति महोदया, इनको गलतफहमी है। जिसने अंग्रेजों का साथ दिया वह राष्ट्रीय सेवा दल होगा या फिर कांग्रेस सेवा दल होगा।…( व्यवधान)
MR. CHAIRMAN : We will have it looked into.
श्री राशिद अलवी : हमें नाम जानने की जरूरत नहीं है। आर.एस.एस. का इतिहास किसी से छिपा नहीं है। गांधी जी की बात करते हो, गोडसे की बात नहीं करना चाहते हो कि गोडसे किस तंजीम से ताल्लुक रखता था, किस पार्टी से ताल्लुक रखता था।…( व्यवधान) उसकी चर्चा नहीं करते, सब खामोश हो जाते हैं।
मैडम, यह देश सैकुलर देश है और इस देश के सैकुलरिज्म में, इस देश के हिन्दुओं का बड़ा हाथ है। हिन्दुइज्म टॉलरेंस का नाम है, हिन्दुइज्म बड़े दिल का नाम है, हिन्दुइज्म बड़े दिमाग का नाम है, लेकिन बदकिस्मती है इस मुल्क की कि इस मुल्क के अंदर ऐसे कुछ संगठन हैं जो हिन्दुइज्म के खिलाफ, हिन्दुइज्म का इस्तेमाल कर के सत्ता हासिल करते हैं और इस मुल्क के अंदर हिन्दू,, मुसलमान और इसाई के बीच में दीवार खड़ी करने का काम करते हैं।
मैडम, अगर १५ अगस्त, १९४७ को यह मुल्क हिन्दू राष्ट्र बनता, तो कोई ऐतराज करने वाला नहीं था। १५ अगस्त, १९४७ को इस मुल्क के ऐसे हालात थे कि अगर इस मुल्क को हिन्दू राष्ट्र डिक्लेयर कर देते, तो किसी को कोई ऐतराज होने वाला नहीं था क्योंकि १५ अगस्त, १९४७ को अकलियत इतने खौफजदा थे कि कोई उफ नहीं कर सकता था, लेकिन उस वत्त तमाम लीडरों ने बहुत सोच-समझ कर यह फैसला किया कि इस मुल्क को सैकुलर मुल्क बनाया जाए। इस मुल्क के साथ-साथ जो हमारे पड़ौस में और मुल्क उस वक्त आजाद हुए, यदि उनसे मवाजना कर के देखिए, तो पता चलेगा कि हिन्दुस्तान कितना आगे है, हिन्दुस्तान ने कितनी तरक्की की है। सरकारें किसी की रही हों, लेकिन हिन्दुस्तान आज दुनिया के अंदर बहुत आगे है और उसकी वजह यह है कि हिन्दुस्तान के अंदर इतने मजाहिब रहते हैं, इतने मजहबों को मानने वाले लोग रहते हैं, लेकिन इसके बावजूद यह मुल्क सैकुलर मुल्क है और सैकुलर होने की वजह से ही यह इतनी तरक्की कर रहा है। अगर यह फंडामेंटलिस्ट मुल्क हो जाता, अगर यह मुल्क हिन्दू राष्ट्र कहलाने लगता, तो यह मुल्क कभी इतनी तरक्की नहीं कर सकता था।
इस मुल्क की तरक्की करने की वजह यह है कि यह सेक्युलर मुल्क है। यकीनी तौर से इस मुल्क की अकसरियत, सेक्युलर लोगों की तादाद बहुत कम है जो हिंदूइज्म का नाम लेकर इस मुल्क में नफरत की दीवार खड़ी करके सिर्फ सत्ता हासिल करना चाहते हैं। मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि सवाल यह नहीं है कि आप लोग अपने आपको सेक्युलर कहें या हम अपने आपको सेक्युल कहें। सेक्युलरिज्म का सर्टीफिकेट कोई किसी को नहीं दे सकता। अपने आपको सेक्युल कोई भी नहीं कह सकता। लेकिन सेक्युलरिज्म का सर्टीफिकेट अगर लेना है तो हिन्दुस्तान की अकलियतों से लेना होगा। कोई कुछ भी कहता रहे। क्या आप अकलियतों के मुहाफिज हैं? क्रिश्चियन्स, मुसलमान और दूसरे लोगों की हिफाजत कर रहे हैं ? आपकी बात काक दुनिया के अंदर कोई यकीन नहीं करता। अगर यकीन करना है तो इस मुल्क की अकलियों से पूछना पड़ेगा कि आज की सरकार उनकी हिफाजत कर रही है या नहीं। मैं अफसोस के साथ कहना चाहता हूं कि विश्व हिन्दू परिषद्, बजरंग दल और भारतीय जनता पार्टी के कितने ही नेता ऐसे हैं जो टी.वी. के पर्दे पर जाते हैं तो अकलियों के दिलों की धड़कन तेज हो जाती है। वे घबराने लगते हैं। इस मुल्क के अंदर ऐसा क्यों है? इस मुल्क के अंदर क्यों इस तरीके से नफरत की दीवारें आपने खड़ी कर दीं? इस मुल्क के अंदर जब तक नफरत की दीवारें खड़ी रहेंगी तब तक इस मुल्क की अकलियतें भरोसा नहीं कर सकतीं। क्या वजह है कि आज अगर कोई जुल्म की कहानी कह रहा है तो अकलियत के ही लोग क्यों बोल रहे हैं? अकलियत के कोई भी लोग यह कहने के लिए तैयार नहीं कि इस मुल्क के अंदर उन पर कोई जुल्म नहीं हो रहा है। इस हाउस के अंदर किसी एक अकलियत के आदमी ने यह नहीं कहा कि इस मुल्क के अंदर जुल्म नहीं हो रहा।
अभी संतोष मोहन देव जी ने कितनी शानदार तकरीर की, कितनी उम्दा तकरीर की लेकिन मैं पूछना चाहता हूं कि कोई एक अकलियत का आदमी, मैं होम मनिस्टर साहब से बड़ी संजीदगी के साथ कहना चाहता हूं कि इस हाउस के अंदर कोई भी क्रिश्चियन्स खड़े होकर यह क्यों नहीं कहने के लिए तैयार हैं कि इस मुल्क के अंदर हमारे साथ जुल्म नहीं हो रहा। पिछले दो सालों के अंदर हमारे साथ कोई जुल्म नहीं हुआ। कोई मजहबी अकलियतों का आदमी, कोई मुसलमान इस हाउस के अंदर क्यों नहीं कहने के लिए तैयार कि हमारे साथ इस मुल्क में कोई जुल्म नहीं हो रहा। क्यों आज यह दूसरों को कहना पड़ रहा है ? आप यकीन मानिए जब तक खुद खड़े होकर मुसलमान, क्रिश्चियन्स या सिख यह नहीं कहेंगे कि हमारे ऊपर जुल्म नहीं हो रहा तब तक किसी दूसरे का कोई भरोसा करने वाला नहीं है।…( व्यवधान) अपने दिलों को टटोल कर देखिये तो इसका जवाब मिल जायेगा।
श्री बृज भूषण शरण सिंह (गोंडा) : आप बतायें।
श्री राशिद अल्वी : आप ही की सरकार के अंदर जामिया मलिया के अंदर जो कुछ हुआ।
…( व्यवधान)
श्री बृज भूषण शरण सिंह : हमने किया था। उस समय राजीव गांधी की कांग्रेस सरकार थी। हमने शाहबानो का प्रश्न उठाया था। …( व्यवधान) सुप्रीम कोर्ट का फैसला बदल गया। …( व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अल्वी : शाहबानो से क्या लेना-देना है। इसी सरकार के अंदर …( व्यवधान)
श्री बृज भूषण शरण सिंह : हर बार आप इसे उठाते जा रहे हैं। …( व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अल्वी : हमने बहुत खामोशी से सुना है इसलिए अब आप भी खामोशी से सुनिये। असल में परेशानी यह है कि आपको सच बात सुनने का आदत नहीं है। …( व्यवधान)
श्री बृज भूषण शरण सिंह : आप लच बोलिये तब हम सुनेंगे। …( व्यवधान)
श्री मोहन रावले : आपको सच बात सुनने की हिम्मत नहीं है। …( व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : आप डिस्टब्र्ड क्यों कर रहे हैं ? वैसे ही टाइम बहुत कम है।
...( व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : आप बाद में बोलिये। मैं आपको भी बुलाऊंगी।
...( व्यवधान)
श्री मोहन रावले : वह ऐसा बोल रहे हैं इसीलिए हम बोल रहे हैं। …( व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : आप उनकी तरफ न देखकर मेरी तरफ देखकर बात कीजिए।
...( व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अल्वी : इस सरकार के जमाने में जामिया मलिया के अंदर जो वाक्या हुआ, वह कोई मामूली बात नहीं थी। जामिया मलिया की बात इस हाउस के अंदर उठी थी। मैं कोई बात दोहराना नहीं चाहता हूं लेकिन उस वक्त भी मैंने कहा था कि होम मनिस्टर साहब को जामिया मलिया जाना चाहिए और वहां पर उन बच्चों से इस तरह मिलना चाहिए जैसे अपनी औलाद से मिलते हैं। यह कैसे मुमकिन है कि आप तीसरी मंजिल से उनको नीचे फेंके, बेगुनाह बच्चों को तिहाड़ जेल के अंदर बंद करे। उनके हाथ-पांव तोड़कर उसके अंदर बंद करें और उनके ऊपर इंक्वायरी भी करायें। उसके बाद आप यह कहें कि यह पैट्रीयोटिक बच्चे निकलें। यह कैसे मुमकिन है। क्या उन बच्चों के दिलों के अंदर नफरत की आग नहीं भड़केगी? मैंने तब भी कहा था कि सरकार की तरफ से कोई जाना चाहिए। अगर होम मनिस्टर साहब जा सकें तो उन्हें जाना चाहिए।
मैं बाल ठाकरे साहब के बारे में कुछ नहीं कहना चाहता कभी आप एकदम शोर मचाने लगें। ...(व्यवधान) मैं डर की बात का कोई जवाब नहीं देना चाहता।...(व्यवधान) लेकिन मैं इतना कहना चाहता हूं कि बाल ठाकरे साहब का बयान आया। मुझे इससे कोई वास्ता नहीं कि एफ.आई.आर. कैसी थी, गलत थी या सही थी।...(व्यवधान श्री मोहन रावले : श्री कृष्ण कमीशन रिपोर्ट का मामला कोर्ट में है। अगर उसकी चर्चा करेंगे तो हम जवाब देने के लिए राजी हैं। लेकिन क्या आप ऐलाऊ करेंगे। ...(व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : कृपया कोर्ट के मामले में मत जाइए।
...(व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अलवी : मैंने पहले कहा कि मेरी इसमें दिलचस्पी नहीं है कि एफ.आई.आर. में क्या है, क्या नहीं लेकिन मेरी इसमें दिलचस्पी जरूर है कि अगर इस तरह के कोई बयानात आएंगे कि पूरे देश में आग लगा दी जाएगी तो उससे आम आदमी के दिल पर असर पड़ेगा। आम आदमी सोचेगा कि इस देश का कानून सिर्फ हमारे लिए है, बड़े लोगों के लिए नहीं है। कानून अपना हिसाब अपने आप लेता है लेकिन अगर इस तरह उसका खिलवाड़ किया जाएगा तो उसके नतीजे अच्छे नहीं निकलेंगे। मुम्बई में जो कुछ अकलियतों के साथ हुआ ...(व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : आप बाद में बात कीजिए। उनकी स्पीच होने दीजिए। आप जल्दी समाप्त कीजिए।
...(व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अलवी : मैं अपनी बात दिल की गहराई से कह रहा हूं और आपसे भी कहना चाहता हूं कि इस मसले को पार्टी पौलीटिक्स से ऊपर उठ कर देखिए। अगर जिस्म के किसी हिस्से में बीमारी होती है तो पहले उसका इलाज किया जाता है। अगर इस देश की अकलियतें मजबूत नहीं होंगी तो देश भी मजबूत नहीं होगा। भगवान श्री कृष्ण ने गीता में कहा कि राज दो तरह से चलाया जाता है, राजनीति दो तरह की होती है - एक वह होती है जो देश के लिए की जाती है और दूसरी वह होती है जो राजा के लिए की जाती है। जो राजा के लिए की जाती है उसकी निष्ठा अलग होती है और जो देश के लिए की जाती है उसकी निष्ठा अलग होती है। आपसे कहना चाहता हूं कि देश के लिए राजनीति कीजिए, राजा के लिए राजनीति मत कीजिए, पार्टी के लिए राजनीति मत कीजिए, संघ परिवार के लिए राजनीति मत कीजिए। देश के लिए राजनीति कीजिए। अगर देश के लिए राजनीति करेंगे तो देश के लिए निष्ठा रहेगी और देश के लिए निष्ठा रहेगी तो हमेशा सही बात होगी, सही को सही कहेंगे और गलत को गलत कहेंगे। जुल्म ज्यादा नहीं चलता, जुल्म फिर जुल्म है, बढ़ता है तो मिट जाता है। जुल्म बदजुल्म है, जुल्म की औकात ही क्या। जुल्म की उम्र कोई बहुत लम्बी नहीं होती। इस मुल्क में अकलियतों के साथ जो कुछ होता रहा है, सरकार से चाहूंगा कि उस पर तवज्जह देनी चाहिए। पिछले ५२-५३ सालों में सरकारी मुलाज़मतों के अंदर अकलियतों की कितनी तादाद थी। मैं सरकार से पूछना चाहता हूं कि अकलियतों की कितनी परसैंटेज है। मलिट्री, सरकारी मुलाज़मीन, पुलिस में कितने प्रतिशत मुसलमान हैं। मुश्किल से दो फीसदी लोग सरकारी मुलाज़मीन के अंदर हैं। अभी मल्होत्रा जी कह रहे थे कि मुसलमानों की तादाद ८ से १२ प्रतिशत तक बढ़ गई है। अगर ८ से १२ प्रतिशत तक बढ़ गई है तो सरकारी मुलाज़मतों के अंदर क्यों नहीं बढ़ी। क्यों उनकी तादाद कम है ? क्या वजह है, कोई डिसक्रमिनेशन है या नहीं। ...(व्यवधान)
श्री अशोक प्रधान (खुर्जा) : जब पढ़ाएंगे-लिखाएंगे नहीं, शुरु से ही उन्हें कारखाने में लगा देंगे तो कहां से नौकरी में जाएंगे। ...(व्यवधान)
श्री राशिद अलवी : चलिए मैं आपकी बात मान लेता हूं कि मुसलमानों के अंदर पढ़ाई-लिखाई नहीं है। लेकिन मुझे यह बताइए कि इस मुल्क में चपरासियों के अंदर कितने प्रतिशत मुसलमान हैं। उसके लिए कितनी क्वालीफिकेशन चाहिए। ...(व्यवधान) मेरे भाइयो, दिलों में गुंजाइश पैदा करनी पड़ेगी। देश को अगर मजबूत करना है तो इन समस्याओं का समाधान करना पड़ेगा। इस तरह जवाब देने से कि मुसलमानों के अंदर पढ़े-लिखे लोग नहीं हैं और कारखानों में लगा देते हैं, अगर मैं यह बात भी मान लूं तब भी देश कमजोर होगा। उन बच्चों को पढ़ाने का फर्ज सिर्फ राशिद अलवी का नहीं है, आपका भी है।
2000 hrs .
मैं अगर आपकी ही बात मान लूं, आप लोग सरकार में बैठे हुए हैं, आपको आगे आना पड़ेगा। आपको आगे आकर सब कुछ करना पड़ेगा। यहां हाउस के अन्दर एलीगेशंस और काउंटर एलीगेशंस लगाने से कोई फायदा नहीं होने वाला है। तीसरी बात मैं कहना चाहता हूं कि उत्तर प्रदेश के अन्दर अक्लियतों के साथ जो स्थिति है, मैं होम मनिस्टर साहब से कहूंगा कि मैं जाती तौर पर इस बात को जानता हूं, आई.एस.आई. और पाकिस्तान का नाम इस हाउस के अन्दर बहुत बार आता है, देश के अन्दर भी आता है, हर जगह जो कुछ होता है, वह पाकिस्तान और आई.एस.आई. करते हैं। एक तो मैं यह कहना चाहता हूं कि अगर इस मुल्क के अन्दर आई.एस.आई. और पाकिस्तान करता भी है तो हमारी सरकार क्या कर रही है। वैस्टर्न यू.पी. के अन्दर, साउथ के अन्दर जहां भी कुछ होता है तो हर बात की जिम्मेदारी आई.एस.आई. और पाकिस्तान के ऊपर डालकर एक तरफ खड़े हो जाते हैं। कश्मीर के अन्दर कुछ भी होता है, बंकर्स बनते हैं तो पाकिस्तान बनाता है। अमरनाथ यात्री मारे जाते हैं तो पाकिस्तान करता है। सिख मारे जाते हैं तो पाकिस्तान करता है, लेकिन हमारी सरकार क्या करती है। क्या सरकार के पास फोरसाइटनैस नहीं है, क्या सरकार के पास तदव्वुर नहीं है। किसी थिंकर ने कहा है कि जिस सरकार के पास, जिस बादशाह के पास, जिस प्रधान मंत्री के पास फोरसाइटनैस नहीं होती और थोट नहीं होता, उसे सरकार में रहने का कोई हक नहीं होता। गलती एक बार हो सकती है, बार-बार नहीं हो सकती। यह कैसे मुमकिन है कि आई.एस.आई. के एजेण्ट सारे मुल्क के अन्दर घूम रहे हैं और हमारी सरकार हाथ पर हाथ रखकर बैठी है। नेपाल के बोर्डर पर आप जगह-जगह कहते हैं, मल्होत्रा साहब चले गये, वहां के तमाम मदरसों के अन्दर आई.एस.आई. के एजेण्ट बसते हैं। मदरसों के अन्दर जो बच्चे पढ़ते हैं, वे आई.एस.आई. के एजेण्ट बन जाते हैं। मैं आपसे कहना चाहता हूं कि इन्हें मालूम ही नहीं है कि मदरसों के अन्दर क्या होता है। मुझे तो यह कहते हुए तकलीफ है कि मदारिस की ये बात करते हैं, उनसे बच्चे अगर पढ़कर निकलते हैं तो वे रोजी-रोटी भी नहीं कमा सकते। हम तो खुद चाहते हैं कि उन मदारिस के अन्दर दुनिया का तालीम दी जाये। हम तो चाहते हैं कि उन मदारिस में ऐसी कामर्शियल क्लासेज खोली जायें, जहां से वे बच्चे पढ़कर निकलें और कुछ काम कर सकें, लेकिन बदकिस्मती यह है कि सरकार को इस बात का अंदाजा भी नहीं है कि उन मदारिस के अन्दर क्या होता है और किस तरीके से क्या होता है। उत्तर प्रदेश के चीफ मनिस्टर ने जो कहा है, मैं होम मनिस्टर साहब से पूछना चाहता हूं कि कम से कम वे उनसे पूछकर इस हाउस को बतायें कि कितने मदारिस और मसाजिद के अन्दर चीफ मनिस्टर खुद गये हैं, जहां पर उन्होंने देखा है कि आई.एस.आई. के एजेण्ट बसते हैं। एक मस्जिद और एक मदरसे का नाम लें कि मैं उस मस्जिद और उस मदरसे में हमने आई.एस.आई. के एजेण्ट पकड़े तो हम इस बात को मान लेंगे, लेकिन अखबारात के अन्दर प्रोपेगंडा करने से कोई नतीजा निकलने वाला नहीं है। अगर इस तरीके की बातें होंगी तो हिन्दुओं और मुसलमानों में दूरी बढ़ेगी, दीवार खड़ी होगी, नफरतों की आंधी आयेगी और उससे आप भी जलेंगे, हम भी जलेंगे, देश भी जलेगा, इसलिए बेबुनियाद बातें करने से कोई नतीजा नहीं निकलने वाला है।
उत्तर प्रदेश के अन्दर जो कानून मदरसों के बारे में बना है, उसे वापस लेना चाहिए। होम मनिस्टर साहब, मैं आपको बताना चाहता हूं कि उत्तर प्रदेश के अन्दर मस्जिद बनाना कितना मुश्किल काम है, इसका अंदाजा अगर आप मेरे साथ चलें तो मैं आपको दिखा सकता हूं। यह इस मुल्क के लिए कोई गौरव की बात नहीं है, इस मुल्क के लिए कोई फख्र की बात नहीं है कि यहां पर मंदिर और मस्जिद के झगड़े पैदा किये जाते हैं। इस कानून के बाद पांच आदमी एक जगह इकट्ठे होकर नमाज नहीं पढ़ सकते। पांच आदमी एक जगह जज्मा बिछाकर नमाज नहीं पढ़ सकते। अगर अल्लाहु-अकबर पांच आदमियों को कहना है तो इस मुल्क के अन्दर आपको जिले के कलैक्टर से इजाजत लेनी पड़ेगी।…( व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : अलवी जी, आप जल्दी खत्म करिये। बहुत टाइम हो रहा है। आप इस झगड़े में मत पड़िये। आप यहां देखकर बात करिये। यह सब रिकार्ड पर नहीं जायेगा।
...( व्यवधान) * सभापति महोदय : आप जरा बैठकर खत्म करने दीजिए, आठ बज गये हैं। और भी बहुत से स्पीकर हैं। आप खत्म होने दीजिए। आप अपना नाम दे दीजिए, आपको उत्तर देने का मौका देंगे तो आप बोलिये। आप अपने व्हिप के माध्यम से नाम दे दीजिए।…( व्यवधान)
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श्री राशिद अलवी : अगर ये बोलने दें तो मैं पांच मिनट में खत्म कर दूंगा।
सभापति महोदय : आप बात करके खत्म करिये, बहुत लेट हो रहा है।
श्री राशिद अलवी : अगर होम मनिस्टर साहब मुझे इजाजत दे दें और कहें तो मैं उन मसाजिद की फेहरिस्त पेश कर दूंगा, जिन मसाजिद के बनाने में उत्तर प्रदेश में और खास तौर से मेरी कांस्टीट्वेंसी अमरोहा के अन्दर गांव-गांव में जो परेशानियां हैं, अगर होम मनिस्टर साहब अपने जवाब में कहेंगे तो मैं उसकी फेहरिस्त आपकी खिदमत में पेश कर दूंगा, ताकि आपको उस समस्या को सुलझाने में आसानी हो। एक वाकया बयान करके मैं अपनी बात समाप्त करूंगा।
श्री मोहन रावले : आई.एस.आई. का प्रोटेस्ट करके।
श्री राशिद अलवी : मैंने पहले भी कहा है कि इस मुल्क के अंदर आई.एस.आई. के एजेंट के साथ सख्त से सख्त कार्रवाई होनी चाहिए। कानून बनाइए कि आई.एस.आई. का एजेंट पकड़ा जाता है तो उसे कनाट प्लेस के अंदर गोली मार दो, फांसी दे दो। लेकिन इसके साथ-साथ मैं यह भी कहना चाहूंगा कि बेगुनाह लोगों को आई.एस.आई. का एजेंट न बनाएं। मेरे निर्वाचन क्षेत्र में जोया एक जगह है। वहां के गांव से दिल्ली क्राइम ब्रांच के लोग मेन रोड से एक आदमी को पकड़ कर ले गए और यहां आई.एस.आई. का एजेंट कह कर बंद कर दिया। जोया से लेकर दिल्ली तक १२५ किलोमीटर के फासले में दस पुलिस स्टेशन पड़ते हैं। एक भी पुलिस स्टेशन को इनफार्म नहीं किया कि इस आदमी को वहां से पकड़ा गया है। सफेद लिबास में यहां से गए और वहां से लाकर यहां बंद कर दिया। आज वह जम्मू जेल में बंद है। उसके खिलाफ कोई आरोप नहीं लगा सके, इल्जाम नहीं लगा सके, झूठे इल्जामात लगाकर बंद कर दिया। मैं जाति तौर पर जानता हूं उस आदमी को, उसका कोई ताल्लुक इस तरीके के वाकयात में नहीं है। इस तरीके के वाकयात पश्चिमी यू.पी. के अंदर मुजफ्फरनगर में, मुरादाबाद में दिन-ब-दिन बढ़ते जा रहे हैं। आपस की दुश्मनी की वजह से आई.एस.आई. का एजेंट कहकर लोगों को बंद कर देते हैं। होम मनिस्टर साहब को इस तरफ तवज्जोह देनी चाहिए और बेगुनाह मुसलमानों को आई.एस.आई. का एजेंट अगर बनाने की कोशिश की जाएगी तो इसके नतीजे अच्छे नहीं निकलेंगे।
वक्त कम है मैं इतना ही कहकर अपनी बात समाप्त करूंगा।
खून फिर खून है टपकेगा तो जम जाएगा, खून फिर खून है सौ शक्ल बदल सकता है, ऐसी शक्लें कि मिटाओ तो मिटाए न मिटे, ऐसे नारे कि दबाओ तो दबाए न दबे, ऐसे शोले कि बुझाओ तो बुझाए न बुझे।
खून फिर खून है टपकेगा तो जम जाएगा।
श्री अनंत गंगाराम गीते (रत्नागरि) : सभापति महोदया, अत्याचार चाहे अल्पसंख्यकों पर हों या बहुसंख्यकों पर हों, अत्याचार अत्याचार ही है और हम उसके खिलाफ हैं।
सभापति महोदया, बहुत दिनों के बाद इस सदन में संगमा जी को सुनने का अवसर मिला। उन्होंने देश की आजादी की ५०वीं वर्षगांठ के उपलक्ष में जो हमने संसद का विशेष अधिवेशन बुलाया था, उसका जिक्र किया और ५० वर्ष के लोकतंत्र की सराहना की। इस लोकतंत्र की सराहना करते हुए उन्होंने एक तर्क यहां पर दिया। ५० वर्ष से ज्यादा साल अब हो गए, आज भी हमारे देश में लोकतांत्रिक प्रणाली है। यह लोकतंत्र इसलिए है कि संविधान ने अल्पसंख्यकों को सुरक्षा दी है। हमारे संविधान ने उनको विश्वास दिलाया है इसलिए ५० वर्ष के बाद भी आज हमारे देश में लोकतंत्र सफल है। सभापति महोदया, यह एक तर्क है। दूसरा तर्क मैं सदन के सामने रखना चाहता हूं। मैं उनके इस तर्क से भी सहमत हूं, लेकिन जिस संविधान का जिक्र उन्होंने किया, जो हमारे लोकतंत्र का मूल है, उस संविधान को जो इस देश के बहुसंख्यक हैं।
उन्होंने उसे दिल से अपनाया है। उस संविधान का सम्मान किया है, इसलिए भी लोक तंत्र पचास वर्ष से ज्यादा आज कायम है। यह जो दूसरा तर्क है, उसके बारे में भी सोचने की आवश्यकता है।…( व्यवधान)
ये लोग तर्क से बाहर हैं। इनके लिए कोई तर्क नहीं है। ये वितर्क हैं। जब संगमा जी यहां बोल रहे थे, उनके मन में जो भय था, वह यहां प्रकट किया लेकिन जिस ढंग से बोल रहे थे, मैं शांति पूर्वक उन्हें सुन रहा था और एक आशंका मेरे मन में आई कि वह भय को प्रकट कर रहे थे या हमारा देश या सरकार को चेतावनी दे रहे थे? अब इस समय संगमा जी सदन में नहीं हैं। उन्होंने कहा कि दुनिया के कई देश हैं जहां पर हिन्दू रहते हैं। दुनिया में कई जगह पर मंदिर हैं, गुरुद्वारा हैं। यदि इस प्रकार यहां ईसाइयों पर हमले हो रहे हैं या ऐसे ही चलते रहे तो उसका असर दुनिया में क्या होगा? मैं नहीं समझता कि दुनिया को क्या संदेशा संगमा जी देना चाहते हैं? यहां पर ईसाइयों पर हमले का किसी ने भी समर्थन नहीं किया है। इस सदन में किसी एक ने भी समर्थन नहीं किया और भविष्य में भी कोई उसका समर्थन नहीं करेगा तो क्या संदेशा संगमा जी देना चाहते थे?
दूसरी बात जो उन्होंने यहां पर कही कि दुनिया के अंदर दो ताकतें एक दूसरे के खिलाफ लड़ने वाली हैं। एक ईसाई है और दूसरी मुसलमान है और यदि ये ताकतें एक-दूसरे के खिलाफ लड़ाई के लिए जाएंगी तो हम कहां जाएंगे, किस तरफ जाएंगे? मेरी समझ में नहीं आता कि यह तर्क किसलिए दिया? जो घटनाएं देश के अंदर हुई हैं, उनका इससे क्या संबंध है? जब भी कोई साम्प्रदायिक तनाव होता है या जब भी अल्पसंख्यकों के ऊपर होने वाले हमलों की चर्चा होती है तो सारी जिम्मेवारी जो इस देश के बहुसंख्य हैं, उनके माथे पर थोप दी जाती है।
अभी अलवी जी बोल रहे थे तो शाह बानो का जिक्र इस तरह से हुआ। उन्होंने पूछा कि शाह बानो का इससे क्या संबंध है? शाह बानो का हमलों से कोई संबंध नहीं है लेकिन साम्प्रदायिकता से उसका संबंध है। जिस समय सुप्रीम कोर्ट ने यह फैसला दिया और जिस तरह साम्प्रदायिकता के खिलाफ लोग खड़े हो गये और जो उन्होंने ताकत दिखाई, उसके सामने हमारी कांग्रेस की सरकार को हार माननी पड़ी, झुक गये। यह तो साम्प्रदायिकता थी। साम्प्रदायिकता किसे कहते हैं? उसी के परिणाम भविष्य में आगे चलकर और भुगतने पड़ेंगे। साम्प्रदायिकता की जब चर्चा होती है और धर्मनिरपेक्षता की बात होती है, किसे धर्मनिरपेक्ष कहा जाए, किसे साम्प्रदायिक कहा जाए, इसकी परिभाषा अपने-अपने तरीके से अलग-अलग दी जाती है। अल्पसंख्यक किसे कहा जाए, इसकी भी परिभाषा अलग-अलग तरीके से दी जाती है।
सभापति महोदय, मैं "राष्ट्रीय सहारा" समाचार पत्र के एक परिच्छेद को उद्धृत करना चाहता हूं। इसकी हैडलाइऩ है - अल्पसंख्यक की परिभाषा कौन तय करे । मैं समझता हूं कि सदन में इस विषय पर बहस हो रही है, इसलिए इस अनुच्छेद को उद्धृत करना आवश्यक है ।
" अल्पसंख्यक देश की राजनीति का मुहावरा है, जिसका अर्थ ईसाई नहीं, पारसी नहीं, जैन और बौद्ध भी नहीं है, केवल मुसलमान हैं, यानी अल्पसंख्यक का बहुसंख्यक। यह मान लिया जाता है कि जिन धार्मिक सम्प्रदायों का उदय भारत में नहीं हुआ, वह अल्पसंख्यक है। सवाल है कि जिस राष्ट्र में धार्मिक आधार पर अल्पसंख्यक निर्धारित होते हैं, उसे क्या धर्मनिरपेक्ष राष्ट्र कहा जा सकता है ? हमें सम्प्रदाय के नजरिए से नहीं, समुदाय के नजरिए से नहीं, सम्यक द्ृष्टि से परिपूर्णता में देखना होगा। आखिर यह अल्पसंख्यक की पहचान का आधार साम्प्रदायिक क्यों हैं ? जब पूरा समाज मंडल कमीशन के आधार पर जातियों में विभाजित है और राष्ट्रीय नीति से इसे स्वीकार किया है, तो सम्प्रदाय के आधार पर ही अल्पसंख्यक क्यों ? हमें वंचित समुदायों-जातियों को स्थानीय स्तर पर अल्पसंख्यक मानना होगा। एक प्रदेश में एक जाति बहुसंख्यक है, तो दूसरे प्रदेश में अल्पसंख्यक। फिर भाषा के आधार पर अल्पसंख्यक, बहुसंख्यक का विवाद खड़ा होगा। बंगाली भाषी तमिलनाडु में अल्पसंख्यक होंगे, तमिल पश्चिम बंगाल में। यही हाल अन्य भाषाओं का भी होगा। इसे वधि की विडम्बना ही कहा जा सकता है कि भारत के किसी भी नियम कानून में यह परिभाषित नहीं किया गया कि अल्पसंख्यक किसे कहा जाए। यद्यपि, भारतीय संविधान के अनुच्छेद २९ व ३० में अल्पसंख्यक वर्ग को कुछ सुरक्षा, कुछ सुविधायें दी गई हैं। संविधान के अनुच्छेद २९(१) में केवल अलग भाषा, लपि और संस्कृति के आधार पर अल्पसंख्यक वर्ग को अपनी भाषा, लपि और संस्कृति को सुरक्षित रखने की व्यवस्था दी गई है, जिससे यह प्रारम्भिक आभास मिलता है कि अल्पसंख्यक के वर्गीकरण का आधार केवल भाषा, लपि और संस्कृति ही है। भारत का संविधान यहां तक धर्मनिरपेक्ष है, पर जैसे ही हम अगले अनुच्छेद ३० पर आते हैं, भारत का संविधान धर्म सापेक्ष हो जाता है। अनुच्छेद ३० में पहली बार धार्मिक अथवा भाषा के आधार पर अल्पसंख्यक को वर्गीकृत किया गया है और अनुच्छचेद २९ में वर्णित लपि तथा संस्कृति के आधार पर वर्गीकृत नहीं किया गया है। ऐसा लगता है कि हमारे संविधान निर्माता धर्म, सम्प्रदाय और संस्कृति को पर्यायवाची या समान अर्थों वाला समझ बैठे थे। इसी भूल की पैचीदगियों में १९६३ से आजतक सर्वोच्च न्यायालय इतना उलझा हुआ है कि यह निर्णय नहीं दे पा रहा है कि आखिर अल्पसंख्यक की परिभाषा क्या होगी ? "
सभापति महोदय, यहां पर जब भी जम्मू-कश्मीर का जिक्र आता है, तो हमें साम्प्रदायिक कहा जाता है।
२०२० बजे(श्री बसुदेव आचार्य पीठासीन हुए) आज पूरी कश्मीर घाटी में एक भी हिन्दू पंडित नहीं रहा, सब का पलायन हो गया।…( व्यवधान) कश्मीर घाटी में कोई नहीं है। राजा-महाराजा होंगे, उनके अलावा आम आदमी कोई नहीं है।…( व्यवधान) केवल सरकारी कर्मी है। वहां जिन हिन्दुओं ने पलायन किया, वे अल्पसंख्यक हिन्दू ही थे। उनके लिए यहां कोई चर्चा नहीं उठाता, यदि हम उठाते हैं तो हमें साम्प्रदायिक कहा जाता है और कहा जाता है कि आप साम्प्रदायिक तनाव पैदा कर रहे हैं।…( व्यवधान) यह साम्प्रदायिकता की परिभाषा सहूलियत के मुताबिक और विशेषकर राजनीतिक लाभ उठाने के लिए की जाती है।…( व्यवधान)
महोदय, आज खास तौर पर जो इसाइयों पर हमले हो रहे हैं, उसकी चर्चा अधिक होती है। पिछले एक-दो वर्ष में इस तरह की ज्यादा खबरें अखबारों में आ रही हैं। यहां उमा भारती जी ने जो तर्क दिया है, उस पर भी विचार करने की आवश्यकता है। इसाई सम्प्रदाय देश की मुख्य धारा से जुड़ा हुआ है, इससे पूर्व ऐसा कभी नहीं हुआ, जब हिन्दू और इसाइयों में दंगे हुए हों। आज भी हिन्दुओं और ईसाइयों में कहीं दंगे नहीं हुए हैं। ऐसी कोई घटना नहीं है, जो घटनाएं हैं, वे इनडविजुअल और छोटी-मोटी घटनाएं हैं। अब ये घटनाएं किस की वजह से हो रही हैं, किस की साजिश है, इसकी चिन्ता करने की आवश्यकता है।
…( व्यवधान)
महोदय, मुंबई में एक भी घटना नहीं घटी, लेकिन गुजरात में घटी है। अगर गुजरात में कोई घटना घटी है तो इसके लिए वहां की सरकार जिम्मेदार है। इससे पूर्व की सरकारों ने अपने आप को जिम्मेदार माना है। देश के किसी भी राज्य में अगर कोई घटना घटती है, यदि वहां की सरकार जिम्मेदार थी तो क्या उन सरकारों ने अपने आप को जिम्मेदार माना है। केवल राजनीतिक लाभ के लिए किसी सरकार के ऊपर जिम्मेदारी थोप दी जाती है।…( व्यवधान) महोदय, मैं जल्दी ही समाप्त कर रहा हूं।
सभापति जी, आज दुनिया में जितने भी बड़े राष्ट्र हैं उनको इस बात की जानकारी है कि लड़कर और युद्ध करके हम अपने साम्राज्य को नहीं बढ़ा सकते हैं। तब उनके मन में एक आशंका और एक डर आता है कि क्यों न धर्म का सहारा लिया जाये। यहां पर धर्मान्तरण के बारे में जितने भी माननीय सदस्य विपक्ष की ओर से बोले रहे थे कि बड़ी संख्या में धर्मान्तरण कहां हो रहा है। लेकिन धर्मान्तरण हो रहा है वे इस बात को तो मानते हैं, चाहे बड़ी संख्या में न हो रहा हो।
सभापति जी, आप एक भी ऐसा उदाहरण दीजिए कि हिंदुओं ने किसी और धर्म के लोगों का धर्मान्तरण किया हो। क्या आपने ऐसा सुना है कि किसी ईसाई या मुसलमान को हिंदू बनाया गया हो। लेकिन आज देश में गरीबी, बेरोजगारी और पिछड़ेपन का नाजायज फायदा उठाकर लोगों का धर्मान्तरण करने की कोशिश हो रही है और उसके खिलाफ यदि कोई आवाज उठाता है तो उसे साम्प्रदायिक कहा जाता है। लेकिन गरीब का धर्मान्तरण गरीबी के साथ और गरीब आदमी के साथ मजाक है। …( व्यवधान) हमारे देश में यह पहली बार नहीं हो रहा है और इस पर हर वर्ष लोक सभा में चर्चा होती है। मेरी एक ही प्रार्थना है कि यदि हम राजनीति से हटकर, राजनैतिक फायदा और नुकसान को न देखते हुए चर्चा करेंगे और इसका कोई उपाय खोजेंगे तो इस देश में न अल्पसंख्यकों के ऊपर कोई अत्याचार होगा और न बहुसंख्यकों के ऊपर।
SHRI CHOWDHARY (BERHAMPORE, WEST BENGAL): Mr. Chairman, Sir, thank you for giving me this opportunity.
Sir, I am not dithering to say that it is a disgrace of sort as today we are dwelling on a sensitive issue regarding atrocities on linguistic and religious minorities, while standing at the dawn of Twenty-first Century, we are nurturing hope and new aspiration for future India.
Sir, it is quite paradoxical to note that on the one hand, we are bragging about the advancement of our country in the field of information technology, e-commerce, e-governance, digital convergence and so on, but on the other hand, a demented section of our society has been indulging in mayhem and depredation against linguistic and religious minorities, and relishing a devilish pleasure, especially on peaceful, law-abiding Christian minority and tribal population in India.
It is the pernicious outcome of the theory that is being propagated by the Sangh Parivar. That is, one man one nation and one culture.
Sir, the rights and freedoms of the Indian citizens have been enshrined in our Constitution. According to the Constitution, all persons are entitled to freedom of conscience; the right freely to practise, profess and propagate religion. In addition to that, any section of the citizens residing in the territory of India or a part thereof, having a distinct culture, language and script of its own shall have the right to conserve it. I would like to quote what Pandit Jawahar lal Nehru had said. `Minorities in India are not racial minorities or national minorities as in Europe. They are all religious minorities’.
Sir, on the pretext of apprehending the ISI agents, the Muslim minority is being harassed and tortured. Political scores are being settled in this way. The name of the State, where it is being done, is obviously West Bengal. In the North-Eastern region, the linguistic minorities are facing the same mortification along with ethnic cleansing. The Hindu Minority in the Kashmir Valley has been systematically butchered and has been forced to leave the Valley. Already a massive exodus, a sort of Diaspora has taken place. But this Government has not yet taken any viable measure so as to ensure their return to the Valley. The driving force behind this sinister design is `political Islam’.
Sir, this is the land of the Gita, the Upanishad and the Tripitaka. Here, we are witnessing that thousands of copies of the Bible are being burnt into ashes. May I cite one Christian hymn? `Lead kindly light amidst the encircling gloom’. This is the land that has been graced by Swami Vivekananda and Shankaracharya. But here we are observing that coffins of Catholic Christians are being pulled out of their graveyards on the excuse that the land is an illegal property.
Sir, this land is regarded as the cradle of most ancient and vibrant civilization in the world. But here in the name of conversion, in the name of ghar wapsi, tribal people are either being induced or are being threatened to get themselves converted into the Hindu religion. Those tribal people who have been worshipping their own God and practising their own animistic cultures for centuries are being forced to do this. This is the land of the Behula, Ahalya, Sita and Anusua. But here nuns are being raped and molested, the statue of Mother Mary is being desecrated.
The State of Gujarat has already been turned into a testing ground of Hindu Rashtra. The State Government of Gujarat is leaving no stone unturned in saffronising that State. You can observe that thousands of signboards are being erected in various villages in that State saying, ‘You are welcome to the village of Hindu Rashtra’. Everybody in this House must admit that since the assumption of power by the NDA Government, atrocities and brutalities on religious minorities in the country have increased by leaps and bounds.
The Jag Mohan Reddy Commission Report of 1969 on the Ahmedabad riots; Madan Commission of 1970 on Bhiwandi riots; Justice Vithaythil Report of 1971 on Tellichery riot; Justice Jitendra Narain Report of 1979 on Jamshedpur riot; Justice Venugopal Report of 1982 on the riots in Kanyakumari; Citizens’ Report of 1993 on Ayodhya; and the latest Srikrishna Commission Report on Mumbai riots, all vindicate the hand of Sangh Parivar behind those riots. It will be a great folly if we gloss over the atrocities on religious and linguistic minorities by saying that it is a mere law and order problem.
The idealogues of Sangh Parivar compare the problem of Jews in Germany with the question of Muslims in India thus revealing the evolution of a concept of internal enemy, distinctly along the Fascist line. The Sangh Parivar is projecting India as a land of one religion and propogating that race spirit is a child of our religion. . According to them, foreign races in Hindustan must either adopt Hindu culture and Hindu language, or may stay in India wholly subordinated to the Hindu nation , claiming nothing, deserving no privileges, no less preferential treatment and not even citizens’ rights.
I would like to quote Swami Vivekananda, " It has proved to the world that holiness, charity and purity are not the exclusive possession of any church in the world. He said, "Every system has produced men and women of the most exalted character. On the face of it, if anybody dreams of exclusive survival of its own and destruction of all others, I pity for them and point out to them that in spite of all resistance soon upon the banner of every religion will be written - help, not fight; assimilation, not destruction; peace and harmony, not dissension.
Finally, I would request the House to exert all endeavour in order to bring about peace and harmony in our country.
DR. A.D.K. JAYASEELAN (TIRUCHENDUR): Hon. Chairman, Sir, I am very thankful to you for giving me the opportunity to speak. Many speakers have spoken elaborately against the attacks on the minorities. I have my own views. I am from Tamil Nadu. In Tamil Nadu, we have a different culture. We have inherited the Dravidian Movement which was sponsored by a great personality Periyar and our great leaders like Aringar Anna, and our dynamic leader Dr. Kalaingar stood for it.
In Tamil Nadu, there are no communal riots. There may be some isolated cases here and there, and that too because of personal differences. Suppose, a person goes to a Christian institution demanding a seat, he may not be given a chance. Because of that he may make some mischief here and there. But on the whole, in Tamil Nadu, the culture is a little different. The people of Tamil Nadu want to live in peace. They want to live with communal understanding. But in other places, everybody knows what is the position. I need not elaborate much. It has been elaborated by many speakers.
The atrocities on minorities have been condemned by everybody. I very much appreciate our hon. Prime Minister for taking all possible efforts. I know all the leaders of our country, particularly, the hon. Prime Minister are very much against the atrocities on minorities. Our hon. Prime Minister openly came forward to help the minorities. As minorities, we are very grateful to the leaders of our country and our State.
At the same time, there are some explanations for attacks on minorities like, it is an isolated case, or it is the activities of ISI and so on and so forth. So, it is the duty of the Government to see and brand them as anti-social elements. When we say that our country is a secular country, you must declare the culprits as anti-nationals. We must rather eliminate them, or we must eliminate that ideology from their minds. We must be very tough with these people who do all these dastardly things. Attacks on any religion of any person must be condemned.
I know, in the political arena, how some political leaders change their colours. When they are in the Opposition, they speak in different languages; when they occupy the position of the power, they speak in some other languages; and when they are with alliance, they speak differently in Tamil Nadu. But our leader Dr. Kalaingar gives importance to minorities, and under any circumstances, stands taller than anybody in this aspect or in this field.
So, I think that the leaders of other parties must learn from our dynamic leader Dr. Kalaingar to stand for the minorities and for the oppressed people. The so-called majority people have their own responsibilities in our country. Our country is known for its culture. It is very much appreciated all over the world. When we go abroad, they very much appreciate our culture and tolerance. When the Hindus are the majority people, they must hold the responsibility to help the minority people and create confidence in their minds and bring peace in this land.
Earlier, we used to talk about IQ and then EQ. But now, there is SQ. SQ means the spiritual quotient. As one sage has said, because of vested interests and ego, all these unwanted things are happening. We attack others. So, we must drive away the ego, the ‘I’, ‘my religion’, then only the God will enter our heart. So, all the people irrespective of majority or minority community accept this. We should shed the ego. Then only we can have the God in our hearts and bring prosperity, peace and happiness in our country.
Thank you very much.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Now, Dr. Raghuvansh Prasad Singh.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN (SANGRUR): Sir, will the Sikhs also participate in this debate?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes.
SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN : Thank you.
SHRI SANSUMA KHUNGGUR BWISWMUTHIARY (KOKRAJHAR): Sir, will the Bodos also participate in this discussion?… (Interruptions)
श्री रामदास आठवले (पंढरपुर) : सर, क्या इसमें हमें बोलने का मौका नहीं मिलेगा?
सभापति महोदय (श्री बसुदेव आचार्य) : सबको मौका मिलेगा।
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seats.
डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह (वैशाली) : सभापति महोदय, अल्पसंख्यकों पर ज़ोर-जुल्म पर यहां बहस हो रही है। यह दुख और चिन्ता का विषय ही नहीं, गुस्से का भी विषय है कि माइनॉरिटीज पर हमला हो। जिस देश को यह गौरव है और जो देश दुनिया में अपना माथा ऊंचा रखता है किहम सेक्यूलर हैं और हमारा संविधान सेक्यूलर है और हमारे यहां अल्पसंख्यक सुरक्षित हैं, इसके माथे पर कलंक दुनिया के सामने कलंक लगा और प्रधान मंत्री को जैसे कटघरे में कुबूल करना पड़ा कि जहां-तहां छुटपुट घटनाएं घटी हैं, ऑर्गनाइज्ड नहीं हैं, लेकिन अब हम वचन देते हैं कि उन पर हमले नहीं होंगे। सदन में दोनों पक्षों के लोगों ने यह कुबूल किया है और आंकड़ों से यह साबित हुआ है कि १९९८ तक माइनॉरिटीज पर, खासकर क्रिश्चियन धर्म के मानने वालों पर जोर जुल्म न के बराबर था जबकि इधर बहुत बढ़ोतरी हुई है। इसका क्या कारण है? हमने उधर का पक्ष सुना है। उन्होंने सफाई देने की कोशिश की है कि संघ परिवार इसके लिए कुसूरवार नहीं है। अपने-अपने तर्क देकर कुछ उदाहरण भी दिये हैं। कभी कहेंगे कि यह स्टेट मैटर है, कभी कहेंगे कि धमार्ंतरण होता है। मतलब यह कि धर्मान्तरण कहने से जस्टिफाइ कर रहे हैं कि ऐसा होता है इसलिए जोर-जुल्म हो। इतना खतरनाक बयान चल रहा है कि हम सुनकर आश्चर्य में हैं कि धमार्ंतरण होता है इसलिए जोर जुल्म उचित है। लोगों ने उदाहरण दिये कि गुजरात में क्या हुआ। सरकार विफलहै या नहीं इसका जवाब दे। सुरक्षा की जिम्मेदारी किस पर है? इसलिए यदि आंकड़े बताते हैं और सभी लोग सहमत हैं कि माइनॉरिटीज पर अत्याचार बढ़ा है तो माइनॉरिटीज को सुरक्षा देने में सरकार विफल है इसको कुबूल करिये। कुछ माननीय सदस्य माइनॉरिटीज के थे। उनका बयान हमने सुना और मैं दुख में हूं और चिन्ता में हूं कि उन्होंने कहा कि हमको सैकेन्ड क्लास सटिजन का स्थान दिया गया है और हमारा सरकार पर विश्वास नहीं है कि सरकार हमें सुरक्षा दे सकती है। यह साधारण बात नहीं है कि माइनॉरिटीज के मन में यह विश्वास हो और सरकार के प्रति अविश्वास हो जाए कि अब हम सुरक्षित नहीं हैं और हम सैकेन्ड क्लास सटिजन्स हैं। इससे बढ़कर चिन्ता और दुख का विषय कोई दूसरा नहीं हो सकता। इससे खराब बात हिन्दुस्तान के लिए नहीं हो सकती। बहुत मुल्क हैं जो सैक्यूलरिज़्म को नहीं मानते हैं लेकिन हिन्दुस्तान के लिए यह बहुत कलंक और शर्मनाक बात है, बहुत दुख की बैत है। सरकार में हिम्मत नहीं है चूंक नैतिक धरातल पर सरकार नहीं खड़ी है। उनके गृह मंत्री तो कुसूरवार हैं, चार्जशीटेड हैं, ऐक्यूज्ड हैं मस्जिद तोड़ने के, उस सरकार पर कोई माइनॉरिटी कैसे भरोसा करेगी? कुछ लोग कहने लगे हैं कि सेक्यूलरिज्म मान रहे हैं तो आप लोग सेक्यूलरिज्म मान रहे हैं तो क्या हम ही लोग दंगाई हैं? आप सेक्यूलरिज्म को मानें तो देश का माथा ऊंचा हो जाए लेकिन व्यवहार में और बोलने में और काम करने में बहुत फर्क है। ये दावा करते हैं सेक्यूलरिज्म का। कितनी खतरनाक बात है कि कोई आदमी नशा पीकर आए और कहे कि ताड़ी पीना पाप है।
सभापति महोदय, इतना भारी पाखंड है। इसलिए देश बहुत बड़े संकट की घड़ी से गुजर रहा है। बहुत खतरनाक बात है। यह देश धर्मनिर्पेक्ष है, इसमें कोई दो राय नहीं हैं। धर्मनिर्पेक्षता ही देश की एकता का सूत्र है। इसमें कोई विवाद नहीं है। क्या इस पर कोई विवाद हो सकता है, क्या इस पर कोई दो राय हो सकती हैं ? धर्मनिर्पेक्षता रहेगी, तभी देश एक रहेगा। धर्मनिर्पेक्षता के आधार पर ही आप मजबूती देश की कल्पना कर सकते हैं। धर्मनिर्पेक्षता यदि खत्म होगी, तो देश एक नहीं रहेगा।
सभापति महोदय, हमारे महान््् संविधान निर्माताओं ने यह महसूस किया और इसीलिए संविधान में यह प्रावधान किया गया, लेकिन यह सरकार इस बात का कोई दावा नहीं कर सकती। इनके बयान का कोई वजन नहीं लेगा। इसीलिए यह सारी स्थिति हुई है। जब से इनकी हुकूमत हुई है तब से हिन्दुस्तान में मायनीरिटी के लोग अपने को असुरक्षित महसूस करने लगे हैं। इनके बयानों से ऐसा महसूस होता है। मायनारिट के लोगों पर हमलों की जो घटनाएं घट रही हैं उनका कारण क्या है? जब तक कारण नहीं ढूंढा जाएगा तब तक निदान नहीं निकल सकता है। कोई बीमारी हो गई। यदि बीमारी का कारण नहीं ढूंढा जाएगा, तो उसकी दवाई कैसे पता चलेगी। मायनारिटी पर अत्याचार बढ रहे हैं। हालांकि सदन में जो फिगर्स दिए गए हैं उनसे ऐसा प्रतीत होता है कि इनके राज में दंगों में कमी आई है। जो मायनारिटी, मुसलमान या क्रिश्चियन हैं, उन पर अत्याचार कम हुए हैं या दंगे कम हुए हैं। लोग तर्क देते हैं कि जो दंगाई थे, वे तो सरकार में चले गए। इसलिए दंगों में कमी आई है। जब दंगा करने वाले लोग सरकार में चले गए, तो दंगों की संख्या अपने आप घट जाएगी। लेकिन मैं इस बात को कह रहा हूं और सरकार इसका विरोध नहीं कर सकती है कि वह मायनारिटी के लोगों को सुरक्षा देने में विफल रही है और आगे वे लोग सुरक्षित रहेंगे, इस बरे में सरकार की ओर से कोई वजनदार बात नहीं कही जा रही है।
सभापति महोदय, इस सरकार को चलाने के लिए जो सब पार्टियों ने मिलकर सरकार चलाने का सोचा उस पर भारतीय जनता पार्टी के नेताओं ने तो दस्तखत किए, लेकिन संघ परिवार के लोगों ने दस्तखत किए या नहीं, यह मैं नहीं बता सकता क्योंकि भारतीय जनता पार्टी के जो चट्टे-बट्टे लोग हैं वे बोलने और लिखने के लिए स्वतंत्र हैं। उनकी पुरानी नीति लागू है। अब इस सबके पीछे क्या है, यह तो वे ही जानें।
सभापति महोदय, मैं एक उदाहरण देकर अपनी बात समाप्त करना चाहता हूं। हम लोगों ने १०वीं कक्षा में संस्कृत में एक कहानी पढ़ी। संभवत: सभी राज्यों के लोगों ने वह पढ़ी होगी। एक बरगद का पुराना पेड़ था। उस पर जरदगौ नाम का एक बूढ़ा गिद्ध रहता था। उस पेड़ पर वभिन्न पक्षी चड़िया आदि बसेरा करती थीं। बूढा गिद्ध वहां का राजा था और वह सब की देखभाल करने और सबकी सुरक्षा करने का काम करता था। इसलिए उस पेड़ पर रहने वाले पक्षियों के मन में उस गिद्ध के प्रति बड़ा अच्छा भाव था। एक दीर्घकर्ण बिलार नाम का बिलाव आया। उसने कहा कि मैं एकादशी व्रत में हूं और मांस वगैरह कुछ नहीं खाता हूं। उसने कहा कि मुझे आश्रय चाहिए। वे दयालु थे। वे उसकी बातों में आ गए और अपने सरल और सहज स्वभाव के अनुसार उसे उस पेड़ पर आश्रय दे दिया। जब चड़िया आदि पक्षी चुग्गा लेने के लिए उड़ कर चले जाते थे, तो वह दीर्घकर्ण बिलार पक्षियों के बच्चे और अंडों का खा जाता था, लेकिन कहता था कि मैं एकदशी व्रत कर रहा हूं और मांस-मझली इत्यादी नहीं खाता हूं। धीरे-धीरे ऐसा होते-होते जब समय गुजर गया और पक्षियों की संख्या कम होने लगी, तो चिन्ता हुई और उसकी छानबीन हुई, तो दीर्घकर्ण बिलार पकड़ा गया। उसी तरह, दीर्घकर्ण बिलार की तरह से इन लोगों का संघ परिवार है। दंगा फैलाने वाले, उपद्रव करने वाले, धारा ३७० हटाने वाले, कामन सविल कोड लाने वाले ये लोग हैं और कारण और इलाज दोनों एक साथ बताने का काम करते हैं।
सभापति महोदय, मैं कनक्लूड करना चाहता हूं। जिस प्रकार से दीर्घकर्ण बिलार कहता था कि मैं एकादशी व्रत कर रहा हूं और मांस आदि नहीं खाता हू तथा पीछे से पक्षियों के अंडे और बच्चों को खा जाता था, उसी प्रकार से यह संघ परिवार वाले कर रहे हैं। अपने को सैकुलर कह रहे हैं, लेकिन सैकुलरिज्म में इनका विश्वास नहीं है।
लेकिन काम बिना सेक्युलर वाला कर रहे हैं। यही कारण है कि जब तक ये राज में रहेंगे तब तक माइनौरिटीज कम्युनिटी के लोग सुरक्षित नहीं रहेंगे। …( व्यवधान)
श्री मोहन रावले : सभापति जी, हाउस कितने बजे तक चलेगा ? सरकार ने कुछ खाने पीने का इंतजाम किया है या नहीं। कर्मचारी काफी दूर-दूर से आते हैं, उनके लिए खाने का कुछ इंतजाम किया है या नहीं ?
सभापति महोदय : केवल तीन-चार मैम्बर बोलने वाले हैं इसलिए यह जल्दी ही खत्म हो जायेगा।
डॉ. रघुवंश प्रसाद सिंह : कारण और समाधान दोनों के साथ इस सदन में केवल बहस से कुछ नहीं होगा बल्कि इसे ठीक करना होगा। जब सेक्युलरिज्म की ताकत मजबूत होगी तब हिन्दुस्तान दुनिया भर में मजबूत होगा और वह नम्बर एक का मुल्क बनेगा। …( व्यवधान)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record except Dr. Bikram Sarkar’s speech.
(Interruptions) * * Not Recorded.
DR. BIKRAM SARKAR (PANSKURA): Sir, I rise to participate in the discussion on the atrocities of minorities. India’s age old tradition is of faith in unity in diversity and the philosophy of secularism, tolerance and communal harmony. It is in this context that the subject of atrocities on minorities is being discussed. I had the occasion and opportunity of seeing this from the other side as a civil servant in the State Government as well as in the Central Government. Now, I have the opportunity as a Parliamentarian. I find that every year we discuss this particular subject and go back to our homes fully satisfied that something would be done. So far as Christians are concerned in India they are feeling insecure. As it appeared from the speech of Shrimati Margaret Alva and Shri Purno A. Sangma, there is a general feeling that the Christians in India are feeling insecure.
I agree with Shri Sangma when he says that justice should not only be done but should also appear to have been done. There is a responsibility on all of us. We should rise above party politics. It is a fact that the Christians, unfortunately, are feeling isolated from the mainstream. They are very much a part of our country. They are Indians as much as the rest of them are. We demand that all-out efforts should be made to give them all security and protection that is needed. Some other sects and segments, like Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes, are also victims of atrocities. So are the Muslims and Sikhs. So far as the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes are concerned, now we have a National Commission for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. A few years ago, we had a Commissioner for Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes. Their Annual Reports are not even discussed. This is given the lowest priority. The result is that we do not come to know the mind of Parliament and the House as to how they are reacting to those Reports and its recommendations.
I had the occasion to privately visit Keonjhar district after Mr. Stein’s murder. It was very sad. When I went there I found that the tribals, as everywhere else, are not taken care of. The State Government has miserably failed to take care of the developmental aspects of the poor Scheduled Tribes in that part of Orissa. I made it known to my leader and my leader conveyed it to the Home Minister. The projects and schemes meant for their economic development had been diverted and the people did not get benefit out of these schemes and projects.
2100 hrs. This may be one of the reasons why they were taken care of by the Christian missionaries or others. Maybe, it is one of the reasons or factors for drawing them towards Christianity and some of them got converted into the Christianity. If it is said that there is no conversion in the country that would be blasphemy. There are conversions. Even in the reports of late ‘80s, we find proselytization in certain parts of India including Tamil Nadu. But some how these reports were not even discussed.
So far as the Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes are concerned, they are the poorest of the poor. Whenever they try to assert their rights which are given to them by the Constitution, they are harassed and atrocities are perpetrated on them on some occasion or the other. If they show the temerity to demand the rights and the benefits provided by the Constitution, they are made victims of atrocities.
Shrimati Margaret Alva was mentioning about civil servants. This is unfortunate that the entire blame is put on civil servants and the political leaders go scot-free. Irrespective of political parties, they put blame on them. I have seen how they behave. I would say that we cannot escape or shy away from our responsibilities. That is why, on behalf of my party, I would say that this should be kept above party politics. We must look at it as a source to find out what the reasons are. As I have said, our philosophy is secularism, tolerance and communal harmony. My Party, Trinamool Congress is a firm believer in this.
Shri Sontosh Mohan Dev talked about linguistic minorities of certain parts of Assam. There are manifestations of this in different parts. Kashmir valley has been mentioned. That is also one of the things. But we must go into the root causes of these things instead of paying lip service only. For that, we must do a little bit of heart searching to find out what exactly we want to do. Shrimati Alva was mentioning many things. She ended her speech by quoting Kavya Guru Tagore. I hasten to say – even though it is not really connected with this – that this was censored in the Press when emergency was there. It is said: "held head high without any fear". But it is very difficult, particularly for those who are dispossessed and who are at the receiving end.
Sir, before I conclude, I bring to the notice of this House the atrocities perpetrated on the Muslims and Scheduled Castes in Birbhoom. I have authenticated the names of those persons. I would place it on the Table of the House. I read out the names and one can easily find out which community they belong to. They are Raja Sheikh, Ali Hussain, Nijam Sheikh, Rasool Baksh, Sheikh Saboor, Sheikh Shaffiq, Harai Sheikh and one Scheduled Castes or may be Scheduled Tribe called Saran Mehta and again Ashraf Sheikh, Sheikh Shaffiq, Sheikh Salamat. I have authenticated this list and I am submitting it to the House. Along with this, I am also submitting a report consisting of 1500 names whose houses were looted and burnt. I have authenticated this… (Interruptions)
SHRI RUPCHAND PAL : Sir, those who were killed and arrested belong to the same community… (Interruptions)
DR. BIKRAM SARKAR : Sir, they are from different parts of the State including Midnapore from where I have been elected. Sir, the minorities including Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes are being butchered in West Bengal. Sir, as I said, we want to keep it above politics. The hon. Home Minister is here and I would request him to intervene. Sir, I am submitting this authenticated copy for the record.* * The papers sought to be laid on the table were not treated as Papers Laid on the Table.
… (Interruptions)
SHRI ANIL BASU (ARAMBAGH): Sir,** …… (Interruptions)
SHRI SUDIP BANDYOPADHYAY (CALCUTTA NORTH WEST): Sir, he should withdraw those words and apologise. ..… (Interruptions)
SHRI ANIL BASU :** …… (Interruptions)
SHRI SUDIP BANDYOPADHYAY :* … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: Nothing will go on record.
(Interruptions)* MR. CHAIRMAN: I will go through the proceedings.
… (Interruptions)
DR. BIKRAM SARKAR : Sir, I need your protection. What does he mean when he says like that? … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN: If there is anything unparliamentary, it will be expunged. Please take your seat, Dr. Bikram Sarkar.
DR. BIKRAM SARKAR: So, Sir, you feel that there is something to expunge.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Yes, if there is anything unparliamentary. Now, Shri Golam Osmani may speak.
** Expunged as ordered by the Chair.
* Not Recorded.
SHRI A.F. GOLAM OSMANI (BARPETA): Mr. Chairman Sir, it is a long discussion in which very many Members have projected their views on this subject. I would take up only one issue. If the Government, at the persuasion or pressure of reactionary forces, becomes nervous and takes steps, it would lead to destabilisation. The case of Assam is the most pertinent one. The agitation in Assam was basically due to some racial problem. What is happening in Tripura? The Bengalis have become the majority there in course of time and now, the tribals are agitating. That is understandable. In Assam also, in the course of 80 years, various types of people, including Muslims, Nepalis and others, went there and made their habitation. So, naturally, there was a reaction. In short, in 1980s, there was a movement designating them as foreigners and that they should be driven out. Very many Muslims were forcibly turned out of Assam. At that time, it was realised that the so-called deportation by police will not be legal and that it will create some complication.
Then the question of application of Foreigners’ Act came. Then the foreigners’ order was issued in 1964 whereby tribunals were instituted. Till then, by the end of 1970s, the problem was more or less over. During Assam agitation, the same question again came up. Ultimately, there was a settlement, that is, the Assam Accord wherein it was decided, in the wisdom of people in the Government as well as in the Opposition, that 1971 had to be the cut-off year and those who came between 1966 and 1971 were placed in a separate category. They were treated as Indian citizens but they were disenfranchised for 10 years.
To give effect to this position of Assam Accord, two legal provisions were made. One of the provisions was, necessary amendments were made in the Citizenship Act whereby 1966-71 stream was placed and for those who came after 1971, a separate law was made. That is called the Illegal IM(DT) Migrnts (Determination by Tribunal) Act of 1983. That was the condition and the agitators who came to power in Assam in 1985 not only signed the Accord but also agreed to it and then some amendments were made.
After that, they said that there are 60 lakh foreigners, but they miserably failed to come nearer to that figure. I would like to quote only some figures here for the perusal of the Home Minister to understand as to why this demand for the abrogation of the IM(DT) Act is made. In the statement made under the IMDT Act, the total number of cases inquired by the police and finalised during 1986 and 1993 was 2,87,625. But previously also, a lot of harassment was made by the police.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now.
SHRI A.F. GOLAM OSMANI : Sir, kindly give me few minutes more.
So, it was referred to a scrutinising body comprising of DC and SP who are required, under the IMDT Act, to refer to the Tribunal. Out of 2,87,000 cases, only 28,000 cases were referred to the Tribunal and 2,50,000 cases were left out. You can imagine the extent of harassment that was meted out to the people. Out of 28,000 cases referred to the Tribunal, 26,000 cases were disposed of and only 2,000 were found as foreigners. This is why the IMDT Act has to go. Whoever the police think as foreigners, they serve notice to them under the Foreigners Act and they say that they have to be deported. This is against all notions of fair play and justice. Therefore, I would request the Home Minister to examine this problem very thoroughly before deciding anything about the IMDT Act.
SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB (CUTTACK): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am grateful to you for permitting me to participate in this discussion. At the outset, I want to say that clashes and attroticites have occurred in our country a number of times. We have discussed here only about the atrocities on religious minorities and only few speakers have spoken about the problems of linguistic minorities there are instances of class and cast conflict too. Democratic temper is developing at very slow pace.
Sir, I would like to draw the attention of the House to some years back. The word which has been repeatedly used here is ‘secularism’. When did this word come into existence? Did our nation used this word from time immemorial? The word which has been used in the Constitution is dharmanirpeksha. We have been repeatedly uttering it as panthnirpeksha. In a number of speeches made outside, it is uttered as sampradayanirpeksha. But what is the true character of this so-called ‘secularism’ in the context of our nation which is built up with so much of sacrifice? When we go back 5,000 years ago, I would like to ask whether there were no clashes between different communities. There were clashes in those days also. During Raja Vartrihari and Vikramraditya’s time, in the 5th Century A.D., a number of clashes were taking place. When did the Hindu concept come into existence? When did Ganpatya, Shaiva and Shakta come into one fold? When did that take place ? Was it during Goswami Tulsidas’s time?
2113 hours (Dr. Raghuvansh Prasad Singh in the Chair) Can we say that it took place 1,000 years ago when the nomads from Central Asia invaded our country? When did this concept of scularism come into being? Was ‘secularism’ imported from Western thought or was it totally inherent within our Indian psyche, what we call, the Bharatiyata?
Sir, many speakers who spoke before me used the word ‘tolerance’. They have also mentioned Swami Vivekananda’s utterances and Guru Rabindranath Tagore’s utterances. But they have repeatedly mentioned that Hindus are tolerant. It is not only that; the Hindus respect other religions. We respect all the religions. That is why, four specific dharma have florished within our country, namely, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism. These are the four inherent religions of this part of the world. We have not only tolerated other religion, but we have also accepted recognised and we have given respect to Christianity which reached our shores 2,000 years ago, before it reached Rome and before it reached Europe. Before Europe was enlightened by Christianity, it reached our shores.
The most modern religion of this world is Islam. It had the patronage of the feudal lords for more than 800 years. A question was being asked by Shrimati Alva: "We have schools for the last 100 years. Why are you asking this question?" For more than 150 years, you had the privilege of getting the patronage of the administration. Normally, most of the Hindu institutions did not get the patronage for the last 1,000 years. We did not get the patronage. We have respect for other two foreign religions too. There came Parsis – the Zoroastrians. Then came the Jews. These are four religions which came from outside. Not only have they been tolerated but they have also been accepted and respected. I would come to the cause of clashes.
At this juncture, I would ask a very simple question. How many Christian missionaries have gone to the Muslim areas and done work? Where are they? This question has never occurred to us.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude.
SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB : Today, what is the position of Hindus? If you take the whole world into consideration, the Hindus are in. There was a time when Hindus were in Central Asia, and also on the banks of the river Nile. After the partition in 1947, we have been confined to this part of the sub-continent. The refugees have come from the West and also from the East. We have become a minority in the whole world community. If there is a temple somewhere in other parts of the world, we feel elated because there are Hindus outside this country.
But I would like to draw the attention of the House, especially, the Minister of Home Affairs, about the problem of linguistic minorities. The languages which has been recognised by the Constituttion in variably get protection and privilages in this country but there are languages which are slowly dying down. Urdu is one of that language. So also Maithili. Sanskrit which is the mother of more languages of India is also in a minority. Sindhi is also a linguistic minority. But we are not discussing this. I would draw the attention of the House towards the creation of linguistic state and the problem arising out of it. We had raised this problem earlier when the Bihar Reorganisation Bill was being considered. Our States were formed linguistically. Orissa was formed along with the Sind Province in 1936. At that time, just two linguistic States were formed. But in 1948, that is, after we got Independence, two erstwhile princely States Sareikala and Kharsnal were also merged with Orissa. Later on, it went ‘temporarily’ to Bihar for administration. What happened instantaneously? Oriya was the court language of those princely States and Hindi was imposed. There were 1,500 Oriya schools. How many schools do exist there today? I would request the Minister of Home Affairs, through you, that there are a number of people of linguistic manority nature like this who are just outside the border States in different districts, say, in Midnapore, East Singhbhum, West Singhbhum, Raigarh, Raipur, Srikakulam, Vizianagaram and Visakhapatnam. It was decided to protect these lingustic manorities by those respective states. But seldom anything has been done.
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude now.
SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB : There are areas outside lingusitic state which need attention. Similarly, there are Marathis outside Maharashtra. But I would request that all attempt be made to protect the linguistic minorities. Why is it that only when certain atrocities are being committed, the Central Government is reacting to it? Why are not precausionary measures taken before hand?
MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude now.
SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB : I am concluding. Now I come to the crux of the problem. Orissa was the First State in 1958-59 to enact the Bill which was called the Orissa (Freedom of Religion) Act.
It was enacted in late fifties. The Christian community went to Orissa High Court against that Bill.
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now.
SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB : Sir, it needs a bit of explanation. Similarly, in Madhya Pradesh also an enactment was done. This was in 1958-59. The Orissa High Court took a decision against the enactment of this Bill and Orissa Government went to the Supreme court in 1973. The Supreme Court gave a decision in favour of this enactment of 1958-59 in the 80s and rules were framed specifically relating to conversions. Whereas Madhya Pradesh enactment was quashed by the Supreme Court, Orissa enactment was upheld and a condition was put that whenever there is a conversion or reconversion, the Collector is to be informed much in advance.
What has happened in Manoharpur, Keonjhar or Mayurbhanj is a reaction to non-compliance of this Act. Rules were framed in 80s and this took about 25 years just for this enactment where Hindus or socalled majority people are unable to protect… (Interruptions)
सभापति महोदय : इसके बाद आपका भाषण प्रोसीडिंग्स में नहीं जाएगा। आपका भाषण कन्क्ल्युड माना गया। आप कृपया बैठ जाइए।
SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB : Sir, let me conclude my speech.
Sir, I would urge upon the hon. Home Minister to look into this matter.
SHRI K.A. SANGTAM (NAGALAND): Mr. Chairman, we are discussing about atrocities on minorities, but I would like to draw the attention of the House that I represent a State where we have no problem about the minority aspect.
Sir, we have heard very interesting points from various speakers who have spoken here earlier and they have enlightened the House. But in my State, Nagaland, somebody has mentioned that the figures that Nagaland has about 87 per cent Christians. Now, comparatively, in other parts of India, we do not have that much of percentage as far as Christian population is concerned.
Nagaland has got this Christianity only about a century back. About 2000 years ago when Christianity came to the shores of India, at that time, we were still very primitive. But about a century ago, when the first Evangelist came, people in Nagaland were head hunters , bloodshed was there. One village was fighting with another village. When this Evangelist came, he said, """"we will bring you a good news and you must listen to it. The Evangelist spoke out to them, """"that if you kill each other, you will go to Hell."""" The Evangelist also told them """"that in order to save your soul after death, you must accept Jesus Christ and before that you have to confess all your sins and accept Jesus Christ so that you can have eternity in the next world."""" So, with that simple belief and faith they have accepted Christianity.
Now, within such a short span of time, the percentage has increased to 87 in Nagaland. Today, in Nagaland, we have Hindu Temples, Gurudwaras, and Mosques. But before we embraced Christianity, we were not Hindus or Sikhs or Buddhists, we were Animists. Suppose today we are asked to convert to Hinduism or Islam, it will be quite absurd for a Naga. We were Animists and we had our own heritage, we had old beliefs and faith. So, Christianity stays and today, we Nagas would just like to request that India being a secular country and the State of Nagaland, where I come from, is a very sensitive State and no one should provoke the people to take action against the manorities in the State.
On the eve of the 53rd Independence Day, the President, Shri K.R. Narayanan, in his message had said:
"The precious heritage of tolerance of different faiths and ideologies, which has been the cementing force in our complex pluralistic society, is showing signs of breaking down and a new intolerance, resulting often in violence, is manifesting itself in our society. "
It is very correct. Today I may have no problem in my own State. There is no guarantee if wrong actions are not checked. Many Members have been stating that in Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat, Maharashtra, Bihar, Uttar Pradesh, Orissa, and even in Assam, there are a lot of atrocities committed on the minorities - Christians and Muslims. Now, if this is allowed to continue in a secular State like India, I think, this is going to create a lot of problems. So far, the Nagas have been tolerating it. We have been giving all the other religions an equal place. If this sort of thing are allowedd to flare up in other parts of India, what message will go out? Even in places like Kashmir, we have got a lot of Muslims. Then, in Mizoram and Meghalaya, we have a large population of Christians. In these places, thank God, nothing has happened up-till now. But if the Government does not control these anti-social organisations, I think, there will be a time when those people in Kashmir and in North-East States will start reacting and even our friends who are in minority in those areas will be in great danger.
Newspapers and various medias have reports have been pointing fingers on the Bajrang Dal, Vishwa Hindu Parishad, RSS had . There is a saying that, there cannot be a smoke without a fire. So, I think, whatever is going in the country needs to be checked. Unless this is checked, - it is not only in those places which have been mentioned but in other places also, where the Christians are in majority - they can also flare up. Then, it will be very difficult for the Government of India to contain it. Not only that, we have got other external forces, which are trying to disturb the country. Why should we kill our own brothers and sisters? These nuns who are raped are Indian citizen. These priests who are murdered are Indian citizen. Just because they believe in one faith, why should someone should take their live?
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude.
SHRI K.A. SANGTAM: Sir, please give me some more minutes and I will end up as I am making a very important statement. If the Government of India does not take care, do not blame the opposition because I am giving a very serious thought to all the politicians assembled here and also to the hon. Home Minister, who is here now, and this will be very valuable for the Government also.
I think, a check should be immediately put on these organisations, whichever organisation they might be. They should not be allowed to go scot-free. Put them behind the bars. Tell them that this is not good for a secular country like India. Therefore, a message should be sent very clearly to these organisations to stop this nonsense immediately.
---------
MR. CHAIRMAN: Now, Shri Joachim Baxla.
२१२९ hrs. श्री जोवाकिम बखला (अलीपुरद्वारस) : महोदय, आपने मुझे एक गंभीर विषय पर बोलने का मौका दिया, इसके लिए मैं आपको धन्यवाद देता हूं। हमारा देश धर्मनिरपेक्ष है, हमें भाग्यशाली एवं गौरवशाली देश के नागरिक होने के नाते खुशी होती है। आज जो देश का माहौल है, जिस तरह अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय के ऊपर हिंसा की घटनाएं घट रही हैं, उन पर वभिन्न प्रदेशों में जिस तरह अत्याचार किए जा रहे हैं, उससे मैं बहुत दुखी और चिन्तित हूं। हमारे देश का हर नागरिक इस विषय को लेकर चिन्तित है। अभी नागालैंड के एक माननीय सदस्य ने वहां की स्थिति पर चिन्ता जताई, मैं उससे एकमत हूं।
लेकिन आज हमारे साथी माननीय संसद सदस्य बिक्रम सरकार ने कहा कि पश्चिम बंगाल में भी इस प्रकार की घटनाएं हो रही हैं। जिस घटना का उन्होंने उल्लेख किया है, उसमें सच्चाई नहीं है। पश्चिम बंगाल में आज जो माहौल हमें देखने को मिलता है वह साफ-सुथरा और सौहार्दपूर्ण है और लोगों के मन में इस प्रकार का कोई डर नहीं है कि हम असुरक्षित हैं। लेकिन आज अगर हम गुजरात की घटनाओं को देखते हैं, नासिक से थोड़ी दूर जो लोग सिनेमा देखकर लौट रहे थे उन पर जिस तरह आक्रमण किया गया, उस घटना को देखते हैं या उड़ीसा में ग्राहम स्टेन्स जो ३४ साल से बीमार लोगों की सेवा में लगे थे उनको और उनके दो बच्चों को जलाकर मार दिया गया, उससे हमारा देश चिंतित है।
जब हम सांसद के रूप में चुनकर आते हैं तो हमारा दायित्व बनता है कि इस प्रकार के माहौल को हमें समाप्त करवाने में मदद करनी चाहिए। गृह मंत्री जी का दायित्व इस ओर और ज्यादा होना चाहिए कि किस तरीके से वे अल्पसंख्यक लोगों की सुरक्षा का ध्यान रखें।
माननीय उमा भारती जी ने जैसे उल्लेख किया और गृह मंत्री जी का नाम लेकर बताया कि अयोध्या में बाबरी मस्जिद का जो विध्वंस हुआ था उसमें हमारे गृह मंत्री जी के विरुद्ध केस भी चल रहा है। इस प्रकार का उल्लेख जब कोई सत्ता पक्ष की सदस्य करती है तो मुझे यह बहुत चिंता का विषय लगता है कि इस प्रकार का उल्लेख करने का उनका उद्देश्य क्या है? साधारण लोगों में इससे क्या संदेश जायेगा। इसलिए मैं साफ तौर पर चिंतित हूं। मैं भाजपा के नेतृत्व में जो गठबंधन सरकार है, उससे अनुरोध करूंगा कि उनके जो सिस्टर संगठन हैं उनको भी रोकने का वे प्रयत्न करें और इस ओर भी उनका ध्यान जाना चाहिए। उन्हें अपने भाषणों से माहौल को अच्छा बनाने की ओर भी ध्यान देना चाहिए। हम भी इस ओर काम करते हैं। जो अल्पसंख्यक लोग हैं, उनके गिरजाघरों को जलाया जा रहा है, उनकी धार्मिक किताब बाईबल को जलाया जा रहा है। इस प्रकार की परिस्थिति को अगर हम तुरंत नहीं रोकेंगे तो आने वाले समय में और भी भयंकर स्थिति का सामना करना पड़ सकता है।
सभापति महोदय, मैं आपके माध्यम से प्रधान मंत्री जी और गृह मंत्री जी से निवेदन करना चाहता हूं कि इस तरह की जो घटनाएं होती हैं उनकी हमें निंदा करनी चाहिए और तुरंत ही इस प्रकार की घटनाओं को रोकने का प्रयास करना चाहिए। इन्हीं शब्दों के साथ मैं अपना भाषण समाप्त करता हूं।
*m21 SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN (BALASORE): Sir, I rise to speak with a very heavy heart because I hear persons like Shri Purno A. Sangma and Shrimati Margaret Alva say that they feel threatened and they feel very insecure in this country. I feel very disturbed. I do now know the reason why we are being told in this country that we are the communalists. Being a Member of the Bharatiya Janata Party,a Swayam Sevak of Rastriya Swayam Sewak Sangh, when I am being told this, I also feel very disturbed.
Why? On the other day Shri Muniyappa, who has left now, sitting on the other side from the Congress Party, in the course of his speech has said that Hinduism is the worst religion in the world. Islam and Christian are the best.
He said so. It is in the record. All the Members, I remember on that day heard it. The late lamented Rajesh Pilot was sitting there; he just let out a very embarrassing smile when he told this and we listened to it. But we tolerated it.
Shrimati Margaret Alva and Shri P.A. Sangma have raised a question: Why is this happening? There must be some reason behind this, because they say that the Christians are a minuscule minority in this country and the majority community is waging an attack on them. There are reasons. Because, as every Christian --as they say -- is telling that he is being threatened. The majority community, the Hindus, has got a mind and they also feel something.
Something happened in my constituency. Once in 1999 we heard on BBC that a nun was raped in Baripada, my constituency. When she was waiting for a bus, a woman came to her in a car and asked, "I am going in this direction. Are you interested in coming in my car?". The nun said, "Yes, I want to go." So, she went and on the way she found that the driver or the person was not a woman. He was actually a man and he raped her inside the car. Some time later she escaped and went to a Church.
Shrimati Margaret Alva raised many times about The Asian Age. It published a cartoon , saying, "Beasts posing as men, disguised as women (Orissa rapists).
Then the late Archbishop of Delhi gave a statement in the same Asian Age:
"Raping a woman is a heinous crime and every man should be ashamed of this, but when that rape has been carried out on a religious woman who has consecrated her life to God taking the vows of poverty, chastity and obedience, the crime becomes sacrilegious and diabolical."
Five thousand Christians took out a procession in my constituency writing the same, "God, forgive them. They do not know, what they do." What is the meaning? These Hindus, have raped a Christian nun and they want God to forgive them! Then the next day, a bus conductor issued a statement that that lady had travelled in his bus and not in a car.
What about the medical report? The medical report says that :
"Considering the findings with the hymen and with the vaginal introitus of the victim lady, it could be inferred that the victim lady is experienced to sex act previously to the alleged occurrence; and no recent sexual intercourse ".
That was what the medical report on the nun said! What is this? The nun is absent. I had to sit on a one-day Dharna in front of the Collectorate just to get her arrested, to create communal harmony. She has vanished. So, what I mean to say is that it is unfortunate that no newspaper published this, that this happened, that this was the medical report. What will a Hindu feel if this happens to be done by another community?
So, I mean to say that this is the reason why all these things are happening. You take the example of the lawyers in Dara Singh’s case. Everybody says that Dara Singh is a Bajrang Dal man or a BJP man. But he was not arrested when the Congress was in power. It is only after the Biju Janata Dal and BJP came to power that they arrested him and he is now in the jail. Our Government have even arrested his lawyer under the NSA. Even Shri Ram Jethmalani fought the case of the assassins of Shrimati Indira Gandhi. He was not arrested. But the lawyer of Dara Singh is now arrested under the NSA. Our Government did it, where the BJP is also a party to the Government.
The BJD is there from which Shri Mahtab was just speaking. … (Interruptions)
MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude.
SHRI KHARABELA SWAIN : Sir, you give me some time. … (Interruptions)
I will complete in three or four minutes.
Now, I will not repeat. I am also having the Minority Commission’s Report with regard to Mathura, Agra, Kosi and Rewari. However, I will not go through it. But the late Archbishop of Delhi has told the hon. Prime Minister that he does not believe in this. The only Christian member, who is there in the Commission, is being accused as judas, a traitor. He might be a stooge of the NDA Government. But what about Shri Shamim who was the Chairman? He is not a Hindu. What about Shri Tarlochan Singh, who was the Vice-President? He is not a Hindu. There was another Buddhist representative also. Do you mean to say that all of them are the stooges of the BJP, Bajrang Dal, VHP, RSS and NDA? They do not have any mind of their own. So, if we do not believe in this Commission, then with whom should we believe? Why are these things happening? These things are happening because there was a conspiracy hatched against the NDA Government when it came to power in 1998. When the Jhabua incident had occurred, the President of the USA, Mr. Bill Clinton, telephoned to our hon. Prime Minister. The German Parliament had passed a Resolution. But, later on, when it was found that it was not the Bajrang Dal who was involved, there was no apology from that side. Everybody was silent.
Now, take the example of the Press. It is also a part of the conspiracy. I am just reading one sentence from the Asian Age. When Graham Staines was murdered, the heading was "Jai Bajrang Dal ! shouted the attackers. It is the heading. Then, what is written:
"The mob (which killed Australian missionary Graham Stewart Staines and his two young sons Timothy and Philip) blew whistles three times and shouted the slogan Bajrang bali ki jai. "
They should Bajrang bali ki jai and what was the heading, `Jai Bajrang Dal!’.
Sir, there is an international conspiracy to defame this Government. Shri P.A.Sangma was telling that there is going to be a conflict between the Christian block and the Muslims block in future. Which side will he take after the bomb blasts in the churches in Karnataka, Andhra, or Goa? After knowing that who was involved in this, Shri Sangma and others should try to know who is trying to draw a wedge between the Hindus and the Christians of this country. They should understand about this thing.
Finally, I will just read one sentence from one of the Christian Reporters, Shri Francois Gautier, who is a French man. It was published in The Hindustan Times of 1st February, 1999.
"Is the life of a white man more important and dear to the Indian media than the lives of a hundred Indians? Or to put it differently: Is the life of a Christian more sacred than the lives of Hindus? It would seem so. Because we all remember not so long ago, whether in Punjab or in Kashmir, how many militants would stop buses and kill all the Hindus-men, women and children."
"Is it because of an eternal feeling of inferiority, which itself is a legacy of the British colonisation? Is it because they consider Hindus to be inferior beings-remember the words of Claudius Bucchanan, a chaplain attached to the East India Company: "…Neither truth, nor honesty, honour, gratitude, nor charity, is to be found in the breast of a Hindoo"! It is because the Indian Press is still deeply influenced by Marxist and communist thoughts like it is in Kerala, where the communists have shamelessly and dangerously exploited the Christians issue for their own selfish purpose?"
Sir, in Sanskrit it is said: जानानि धर्मम् नचमे प्रवृत्ति, न जानानि धर्मम् नचमे निवृत्ति - I know what is dharma, but I do not observe it, and I also know what is adharma, but I do not refrain from doing it. This is what the opponents are doing.
Finally, I appeal, with folded hands, to all the Christian brothers and sisters of this country that they should not treat incidents like increase in somebody’s passing marks or a theft in somebody’s house, as communal incidents or atrocities on minorities because Hindus are also suffering. I was also taken to jail because of no reason, because somewhere a danga took place in 1991. When I was contesting in Kendrapada, they arrested me and put me behind the bars. They also wanted to keep me under NSA but later on they found that there was not a single case against me. Because I was a civil servant earlier, so they also released me. So, if I can suffer this, why not others who say that they are Indians? When I suffer, should I say that it is an atrocity on a Hindu? If any policeman beats a Hindu, will he say that it is an atrocity on the Hindus? So, with folded hands, I appeal to all members of the Christian community that they should not be swayed away by this malicious propaganda that India is against the Christians, India is against the Muslims, India is against the minorities, because this is the best possible Government led by Atal Ji, led by Advani Ji, that we are having after 53 years.
With these words and with my appeal, I conclude. Thank you, Sir.
SHRI E. AHAMED (MANJERI): Mr. Chairman, thank you very much for giving me this opportunity. Due to paucity of time, I am not taking much of the valuable time of this house. However, it is only two days back that we have celebrated the 53rd Independence Day of our country. The progress, the development and the position that our country has attained in the world over, has increased our status in the comity of nations. But, at the same time, it is a matter of regret that still we have to discuss the atrocities committed on minorities in this country. Despite the fact that there are consistent threats, harassment and atrocities on the minorities of this country, I venture to say that minorities in this country have firm faith and belief in the Indian State. This is the country for the minorities also as a citizen of this country, who are born in this country, who are living in this country and who are to be buried in the holy soil of this country. We have our faith in the democracy, in the secularism, in the Constitution and in the pluralistic society that we have. But it is also equally true that there are elements in this country who are on inimical terms with the minorities and are creating many problems not only for this Government but for any Government and for the peace-loving people of this country. The murders of the missionaries, the naked parading of the priests, the attacks on the places of religious worship, the death of a Christian in custody who bears witness in a court of law against a Hindutva goon, destruction of the specific targets , of the properties, business places and industrial units belonging to the Muslims - for which I was a witness in Surat - with the connivance of the administration, are shocking for right-thinking Indians in this country. It is in this context that I would just quote a portion of what our hon. President has referred in the Independence Day message.
"We liberated ourselves from the foreign rule and established a democratic polity through our Constitution which embodies modern ideas of the governance and the right and the liberties of the people and blended them with advanced ideas of social equality and justice, integrating them all into our age-old human values and cultural heritage. "
This is the history of India. At the very same time, there are the elements who are fomenting communalism in this country who are giving encouragement to the citizens to kill their own fellow citizens of this country, and harassing and always committing atrocities on the hapless minorities in this country This is an undisputed fact.
Mr. Chairman, I had the occasion to visit Surat and also some other parts of Gujarat. In 1998 also, I visited Sanjaili, Randikpur, Ahua districts and some other places. I have submitted my report to the hon. Home Minister and in fairness, I would say that he has tried to act upon it. What happened? Only hapless people have been attacked. On 9th of this months I went to Ahmedabad and on 10th and 11th, I visited Surat. I am thankful to the Administration there, who cooperated with me and made arrangements for my visit. What have I seen? The VHP had declared an all India bandh against Kashmir massacre on 4th of August. But only in Gujarat, they had called the bandh on 3rd and the Muslims also participated in the bandh. While Muslims were in their houses taking rest, their properties, their business places, their houses and their industrial units had been destroyed - Mr. Chairman, I am a witness to it – and material and machinery worth crores of rupees had been destroyed. Why? What will they do? The Minister of Home in the State Government, Shri Hiran Pandiya was there at the time of violence and thereafter, no other Minister from the Government of Gujarat visited that area. My request also fell on deaf ears. I requested them to give some financial relief since previous day , these people had a source of livelihood but next day they have lost everything. Where shall they go? I have visited the places where these people, who were suffering, were living and I myself have seen their unforgettable plight. It is for the information of the hon. Home Minister that even Maqbara Mosque was also attacked. Why did all these things happen? Why were they attacked? What did Muslims do? I ask why such crimes and such atrocities are taking place against Muslims. Did the minorities not support this Government on the sensitive issue of Kashmir? Minority community, Muslims have extended their support to all Governments, including the present Government led by Shri Vajpayee. Why has this violance been let lose against these minority people? I would say that a criminal is a criminal irrespective of which Party he belongs to and whoever is guilty may be proceeded against.
I would just like to say that every time, incidents involving Muslims being linked with ISI. If there is ISI hand, the Government should take action against ISI. There was a promise made by the Home Minister that there will be a White Paper on ISI. Why has it not been given so far? We would like to know that. They may take action against ISI or whichever other agency is involved in all these activities. Here, I would like to draw the attention of the Home Minister to a reply given on 1.8.2000 to an starred Question No. 135 by the Minister of State in the Ministry of Home Affairs, my friend, Shri Ch. Vidyasagar Rao. The question was put by Shri Y.S. Vivekananda Reddy. His question was whether the Government proposes to bring a White Paper on ISI activities in India. If so, the reasons for not publishing them. The reply given is that the statement is laid on the Table of the House. The Statement reads:
"(a),(b) and (c): All relevant aspects pertaining to the preparation of a White Paper on ISI activities in India are at present under close examination of the Government. "
I hope, it will come. Again, Sir, in the same answer it is said:
"Really, there is no let up in the activities of ISI in sponsoring terrorism in the country and extending various kinds of support including weapons, financial assistance, arms training etc., to the militant outfits operating in the country."
Further, it is very important, the answer said:
"The activities of the ISI and all other organisations having a bearing on maintenance of communal harmony in the country are under constant watch of law enforcement agencies and requisite legal action is being taken whenever necessary."
This was the reply. Then, there was another reply to Unstarred Question No. 1411, dated 01.08.2000. The question was asked by none other than my good friend, Dr. Vijay Kumar Malhotra, and another hon. Member. What was the question? It was about "the number of bomb blasts, violent incidents, carried out by terrorist organisations; number of civilian soldiers killed, injured therein, along with the compensation paid" etc; and, further question (b) the number of ISI agents, terrorists, identified, arrested, punished, killed during the said period State-wise". The answer given by Shri Vidyasagar Rao was:
"The Central Government does not maintain information in this regard."
To the Starred Question, the hon. Home Minister has given the reply saying:
"Activities of ISI and all other organisations having a bearing on maintenance of communal harmony in the country are under constant watch of law enforcement authorities."
In the second answer to Unstarred question on same day , it was said:
"The Central Government does not maintain information in this regard."
Is it the manner in which the Home Ministry functions in these matters? I am only asking this question. Therefore, for everything, wherever the minorities are involved, why do you take the name of the ISI? Earlier, we have been hearing about the CIA and, now, we are hearing about the ISI. We have absolutely nothing against taking whatever action that deserves to be taken by the Government against the ISI. But the poor innocent and the hapless people of the minority community must be spared.
I will just take a minute to say one thing. The activities of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad are creating a lot of heartburn among the minorities. It is not that the Indian Union Muslim League is only speaking about Vishwa Hindu Parishad and the Bajrang Dal. I would just like to let you know as to what is the opinion of the Samata Party. In the Samata Party""""s newsletter, it was stated that their National Council had passed a resolution, where in they had mentioned:
"We must however ensure that organisations like the VHP and Bajrang Dal are not allowed to fan tension or tarnish the image of NDA. They are not the true representatives of the Hindu community."
This is the view even among those who are in the NDA. Then, why have they not been curbed or controlled?
Sir, I would say that this is a country which has given the highest honour to a women Christian Missionary, Mother Teresa. This is India; this is own country which has given the highest honour to a Muslim, Dr. Abdul Kalam for his contribution in the field of scientific development. This is our country, and we have to live in this country. Therefore, it is the duty of the Home Minister to take steps, stringent action, whatever it is, violance and terror against minorities.
While inaugurating a Meeting of the Chief Secretaries, Home Secretaries, and the Directors-General of Police of different States, the Home Minister is reported to have said:
"These incidents, that is, the atrocities against minorities, specially Christians, do not appear to be emanating from any tension between the communities. As the sequence of these incidents indicate, the possibility of an anti-Indian element trying to create disaffection in society and give the country a bad name cannot be ruled out."
This is what Shri Advani said. Who are these elements? Then why is the Government shying away from controlling these elements? Why has the Government not taken action against them? Who are protecting them? These are the factors to be taken into serious consideration, and take action to create an atmosphere for peaceful coexistence in the country. This is the country, where it is said, "मजहब नहीं सिखाता आपस में बैर रखना, हिन्दी हैं हम, वतन है हिंदोस्तां हमारा।"
2200 hrs. SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB: Sir, why was I denied to speak?… (Interruptions)
सभापति महोदय : आप जानिये कि आपने कितना बोला है।
...( व्यवधान)
SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB : I did speak for 15 minutes. But you did not allow me to speak … (Interruptions)
सभापति महोदय : आप समय देख लीजिए कि आपने कितना बोला है।
...( व्यवधान)
SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB : Is it simply because I mentioned that Hindi was being imposed on Sarei Kala and Kharsuan?… (Interruptions)
सभापति महोदय : कृपा कर आप आसन ग्रहण कीजिए।
...( व्यवधान)
SHRI BHARTRUHARI MAHTAB : Sir, I will sit down. But I need an answer… (Interruptions)
SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN (SANGRUR): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I am very grateful to you for allowing a Sikh Member of Parliament to speak on this subject. It is almost past chicken curry time and we are all sitting here very late without our dinners. So, I hope, you would have the patience to hear me out.
Sir, the trouble that we now have in India is that the ultra nationalist Right Wing forces have taken control of this country. It may be the BJP or the Congress. There is no difference between these two Parties as far as the Right Wing ultra nationalism is concerned. I would like to give a few examples.
Sir, the first example is that of 1984 when the late Indira Gandhi made the Indian Forces sit at Harmander Sahib and 36 other Gurdwaras in Punjab and else where in the country. At that time though Indira Gandhi gave orders to the Indian Army to enter the Golden Temple, the BJP said that it should have been done some six months before. In 1984, the Sikh relics from the Golden Temple were taken away by the Indian Army. Since then we have had so many Prime Ministers – Raja V.P.Singh, Shri Chandra Shekhar, Shri P.V.Narasimha Rao, Shri Deve Gowda and now Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee – but those relics have not been returned. Those relics are still with the Government of India and have not been returned.
Sir, as far as the Sikh massacre of 1984 is concerned, the hoodlums who perpetrated this heinous crime are still at large. No Party, whether it be the BJP or the Congress, has taken any action against Shri Bhagat, Shri Tytler, Shri Bhajan Lal and Shri Sajjan Kumar. I fail to understand that if the BJP is for the Minorities, then why are these hoodlums still at large? These are the things that pain me. It pained me when the Babri Masjid was attacked and was razed to the ground. It was the BJP then ruling the State and at the Centre, the Government of Shri P.V.Narasimha Rao did nothing about it, it simply fiddled and kept quiet. This nexus of the major Parties is very shameful.
I would like to give you another example. This has happened lately in the Parliament and that was the passage of the Uttaranchal Bill. The Sikhs were pained because they felt that the Udham Singh Nagar should not have gone to the Uttaranchal. The BJP and the NDA supported the Bill and they proposed it. The Congress seconded its proposal. My contention is that this sneaking of the Right Wing ultra nationalism into politics is very dangerous. I wish that the Home Minister and others would take some notice of all these things.
Sir, many Sikhs have been in jail since 1984. Under article 21 of the Indian Constitution it is mentioned that there shall be a speedy trial. But the Sikh prisoners, who are in jail since 1984, have remained without any trail. There has been no trial for the Sikh prisoners. Shri Advani had promised that the Sikh detenues would be released but that has remained only on paper.
Let me speak, Sir, I am the only Sikh who is here to speak. Everybody has been given a chance. Let me say what is paining the Sikhs and the minorities in India. Please hold your horses and let me speak.
There are fake encounters against the minorities. People are caught and not brought to justice but killed. That has happened to the Sikhs. It has happened to the Muslims all the way from Kashmir to Punjab, and in the East. If you see the map of India you will find that the state of India is not at peace with any of its minorities. Look at the peripheral State of Punjab that has become an army cantonment; look at Kashmir that is an army cantonment; and look at the North-East that is an army cantonment. This sort of things scare us.
We are very very unhappy and insecure, as the other Members have said. We are also a religious minority and a linguistic minority. We have our population in the border State of Rajasthan, Haryana, Himachal Pradesh and in Jammu and Kashmir. But Punjabi is not taught in any of these States and the minorities there are not getting their fair share of justice and their Constitutional rights. We now see that ultra-nationalist feelings are coming into our bureaucrats and our military officers. Most of them, when they retire, invariably want to join the BJP and the RSS-sponsored parties. We have a danger that like in Fiji we are going to be demographically upset from the influx of imported labour in Punjab. They are being given ration cards and allowed to vote. So, it is painful to know that the Sikhs in their own State would become a minority in times to come.
There is the Human Rights Commission and there is the Minorities Commission but they do not have any teeth. They cannot punish any person. The Human Rights Commission cannot go into any case which is more than two years old. But the atrocities and the perpetration of genocide that has taken place against the Sikh people is of much earlier times. I would advise the hon. Home Minister to put some teeth into the Human Rights Bill so that we can get justice.
श्री मोहन रावले : सभापति महोदय, दस बज कर दस मिनट हो गए हैं। सदन की परम्परा है कि अगर इतना वक्त हो जाता है तो लोगों के जाने का इंतज़ाम करना चाहिए, उनके खाने का इंतज़ाम करना चाहिए नहीं तो उनको ऐलाउंस देने का इंतजाम करना चाहिए। ...(व्यवधान) इस बारे में सरकार को कुछ रिस्पौंड करना चाहिए।
SHRI SIMRANJIT SINGH MANN (SANGRUR): Sir, we want to protest that the Sikhs under article 25 of the Constitution are clubbed with the Hindus. In the Hindu Marriage Act, we are clubbed with the Hindus. We are a separate people; we have a separate language; a separate religion; a separate culture; and a separate dialect; and we want the Parliament to change the law and say that we are a separate people.
The last thing that I want to say is, when I recently visited Canada and America most of the Sikhs complained that they were on the blacklist of India and they do not get visas. This is something that perturbs me. Even when I went out to America in the month of April, I was detained for half an hour in the airport.
The reason given was that my name was in the blacklist. Most of the Sikhs are blacklisted. I wish that the vengeance against Sikhs that had set in after 1984 ceased and we were respected and brought on a par with the majority community.
श्री सानछुमा खुंगुर बैसीमुथियारी (कोकराझार) : आदरणीय सभापति जी, आपने मुझे इस गम्भीर मामले पर बोलने का मौका दिया, इस वजह से मैं आपका आभार मानता हूं।
सभापति महोदय : आप पांच मिनट में खत्म कर दीजिए तो मैं भी आपका आभारी रहूंगा।
श्री सानछुमा खुंगुर बैसीमुथियारी : आज इस देश में जिस ढंग से रिलीजियस माइनोरिटीज, लिंग्वस्टिक माइनोरिटीज के ऊपर अत्याचार, उत्पीडन और हमले हो रहे हैं, वह सारे हिन्दुस्तान के प्रबुद्धशील, शान्तिगामी, गंणतांत्रिक और धर्मनिरपेक्षतावादी लोगों के लिए बहुत चिन्ता का विषय है। जिन लोगों को आज कुछ एडवांस एंड रीजनल एलीमेंट्स की तरफ से बहुत तकलीफ उठानी पड़ी, उन लोगों के लिए मैं मेरे दिल से और खासकर हमारे बोड़ोलैंड आबादी के लोगों की तरफ से सहानुभूति और सिम्पेथी उन लोगों तक पहुंचाना चाहता हूं। आज जिस अत्याचार के बारे में यहां बहस चल रही है। हमारे नोर्थ ईस्टर्न रीजन में, असम में ट्राइबल लोगों के ऊपर उस तरह के अत्याचार तो नहीं हुए, लेकिन दूसरे ढंग के, दूसरे प्रकार के अत्याचार, उत्पीड़न और हमले हो रहे हैं।
We are also linguistically, religiously and ethnically minorities. So, it is the duty of the Government of India to take some concrete and positive policy decisions to ensure the safety, security and all-round development of the downtrodden people including the indigenous Bodo Mongoloid people and so on and so forth.
आज धर्मान्तरण के बारे में बहस चल रही है, लेकिन एक मुद्दे को देखकर मुझे बहुत आश्चर्य हुआ, जब ट्राइबल लोगों को कुछ नॉन ट्राइबल लोगों की वजह से दूसरे धर्मों को अपनाने के लिए मजबूर होना पड़ा। उन लोगों को फिर खुद का ट्राइबल धर्म अपनाने के लिए जिस ढंग से मौका देना था, उसके मुताबिक मौका नहीं दिया।
What sort of action has been taken? The tribal people have been converted again forcibly into the Hindu religion. Why have the tribal people not been allowed to go back to their respective indigenous faiths? We the people of Bodoland are not Hindus. We are not Hindus, Sikhs, Jains or Buddhists. We have our own indigenous faiths, beliefs and religions.
A very interesting thing is that in each and every census on record, the majority tribal people have not been listed along with their respective tribal religions. They have been listed either as Hindus or as those belonging to other religions. Why have the indigenous Mongoloid Bodo people not been allowed to be listed with their own religions?
This is my humble appeal to the hon. Union Minister of Home Affairs. He should give a very clear-cut directive to the census authorities to list the tribal people of this great country to be listed with their respective religions, beliefs and faiths in the course of the on-going census.
Until and unless the Bodo people and the indigenous tribal people of Assam are given a separate State of ‘Bodoland’, you can never ensure safety, security, all round development, survival and existence of the indigenous Bodo people of this great land of India.
So, it is the duty of the Government of India to concede to our longstanding, very genuine, legitimate, justified separate State of Bodoland. I would also like to pray to the hon. Home Minister to take very drastic measures and actions to stop all kinds of atrocities, which are being perpetrated on the religious, linguistic, cultural and ethnic minorities, with special reference to the indigenous Bodo Mongoloid people and other downtrodden people of this great country of India. Otherwise, you can never expect this great country to remain united.
With these few words, I would like to conclude my speech.
श्री रामदास आठवले (पंढरपुर) : सभापति महोदय, अल्पसंख्यक समुदाय पर अपने देश में दो-तीन साल से जो अत्याचार हो रहा है, उस पर सदन में चर्चा हो रही है। यह हम लोगों के लिए अच्छी बात नहीं है। हम सब लोग अपने देश में भारतीय हैं, उसके बाद भी हम एक-दूसरे को अलग-अलग नजर से क्यों देख रहे हैं। कहा जाता है कि गर्व से कहो हम हिन्दू हैं, मैं कहना चाहता हूं गर्व से कहो हम भारतीय हैं। गर्व से मत कहो कि हम हिन्दू हैं, मुस्लिम हैं, सिख हैं, ईसाई हैं, लिंगायत हैं, पारसी हैं, जैन हैं, गर्व से कहो हम भारतीय हैं। हिम्मत से कहो हम भारतीय हैं। एक साथ कहो हम भारतीय हैं। एक ताकत से कहो हम भारतीय हैं। स्वाभिमान से कहो हम भारतीय हैं।
पिछली जनवरी में आस्ट्रेलियाई मिशनरी ग्राहम स्टेंस और उनके दो बच्चों को उड़ीसा में जिंदा जला दिया गया। कुछ दिन के बाद मुस्लिम व्यापारी की हत्या भी उड़ीसा में हुई थी। उसके दूसरे ही सप्ताह में ईसाई धर्मगुरू अरूण दास की हत्या मयूरभंज, उड़ीसा में हुई थी। ये हत्याएं करने वाला दारा सिंह, जो बजरंग दल का है, आपके ही राज्य का है।…( व्यवधान) सभापति महोदय, दारा सिंह ने इस तरह के कई अत्याचार किए थे। मध्य प्रदेश में ईसाई ननों के साथ बलात्कार हुआ और फिर उसका सिलसिला शुरू हो गया। २९ अक्तूब, १९९८ को गुजरात में बड़ौदा में ईसाई लोगों पर हमला करने का प्रयत्न वहां के हिन्दू लोगों ने किया था। सूरत जिले में जानकौस गांव में, नौपारी और डांग में भी उन पर हमले हुए।
श्री मोहन रावले : सभापति महोदय, इन्होंने हिन्दू लोगों का नाम लिया है कि उन्होंने बलात्कार किया, हिन्दू शब्द को कार्यवाही से निकाला जाए।
श्री रामदास आठवले : मैंने बलात्कार के बारे में नहीं कहा।
सभापति महोदय : आपत्तिजनक भाग निकाल दिया जाएगा।
श्री रामदास आठवले : जो भी थे, वे भारतीय थे। धर्मपुर के बालगढ़ में और अहमदाबाद में हिन्दू जागरण मंच नाम का जो मंच स्थापित हुआ है, उसके द्वारा ये अत्याचार किए गए। उत्तर प्रदेश में बनारस में भी अल्पसंख्यकों पर अत्याचार हुए हैं। महाराष्ट्र में नासिक जिले में आबूना और पेट में ईसाइय़ों पर अत्याचार करने का प्रयत्न हुआ है। ईसाइयों पर जो अत्याचार हुए हैं, उनके आंकड़े आए हैं। १९९८ में जो घटना हुई थी।
उनमें ८६ घटनाएं इसाई समाज पर अत्याचार वाली हैं, १९९९ में १२० हैं। सन् २००० में ऐसी १०० घटनाएं हुई हैं। सन् १९९८ में इन घटनाओं में मारे गए लोगों की संख्या तीन है। १९९९ में मारे गए लोगों की संख्या १२ है और सन् २००० में ७ है। इसी तरह से जख्मी लोगों की संख्या १९९८ में ४५ है, १९९९ में ९१ और सन् २००० में ९० है। जो साम्प्रदायिक दंगे हुए हैं, उनके आंकड़े इस तरह से हैं। १९९८ में घटनाओं की संख्या ६४५ है। उसके साथ-साथ मारे गए लोगों की संख्या २१७ और जख्मी लोगों की संख्या २१२० है। १९९८ में ५९८ घटनाएं हुई हैं और उनमें मारे गए लोगों की संख्या १६० है, जख्मी लोगों की संख्या २०१७ है। सन् २००० में घटनाओं की संख्या २३४ है और मारे गए लोगों की संख्या ५५ है तथा जख्मी लोगों की संख्या ५०० है। सन् २००० में यह संख्या कम हो गई है और इसका कारण इनकी सरकार के आने के बाद अत्याचार कम हुए हैं। यह बात सही है कि जब ये लोग सत्ता में आते हैं तो अत्याचार नहीं करते हैं और जब सत्ता से बाहर रहते हैं तो ईसाई और मुस्लिम समाज पर अत्याचार होता है।…( व्यवधान) इसीलिए आपकी सत्ता ज्यादा दिन नहीं रहने वाली है और सत्ता ज्यादा दिन कैसे रह सकती है?
"आडवाणी जी, तुम तो सत्ता पर आये हो हमें जलाने के लिए, और हम जल रहे हैं तुम्हें मिट्टी में मिलाने के लिए, हम आगे बढ़ रहे हैं तुमको सत्ता से हिलाने के लिए, हम सत्ता पर आ रहे हैं तुम्हें जलाने के लिए। "
उसी तरह बहुसंख्य हिन्दुओं, तुम अल्पसंख्यकों को समझने की कोशिश करो, आप भी करो, वे भी भारत के नागरिक हैं, आप भी भारत के नागरिक हैं तो आपस में क्यों लड़ रहे हो? एक-दूसरे को खत्म करने के लिए क्यों आगे बढ़ रहे हो?
आपस में बढ़ाओ तुम दोस्ती, मत जलाओ एक-दूसरे की बस्ती।
इसी तरह का काम हमें करना है कि :
"ज़ोर-ज़ुल्म की टक्कर में संघर्ष हमारा नारा है, संघर्ष हमारा नारा है, यह भारत देश हमारा है, भारत देश तुम्हारा भी है। "
इसी तरह सरकार को बहुजन समाज को, अल्पसंख्यक समाज को दलितों को समझने की कोशिश करनी चाहिए। यह सत्ता का सवाल नहीं है। कभी आप सत्ता पर रहेंगे और कभी हम लोग सत्ता पर आएंगे। यह लोक तंत्र में चलता रहेगा। लेकिन अल्पसंख्यकों को संरक्षण देने की जिम्मेवारी भारत सरकार की है और विश्वास दिलाना चाहते हैं कि जहां-जहां भी हिन्दू माइनॉरिटीज में हैं, जैसे जम्मू-कश्मीर में हैं, त्रिपुरा में होंगे और मेघालय में होंगे, उनकी भी सुरक्षा करने का वादा हम लोग करते हैं। ...(व्यवधान)
सभापति महोदय : अब आसन ग्रहण कीजिए। इनकी कोई बात रिकार्ड में नहीं जाएगी।
...( व्यवधान)... * SHRI DENZIL B. ATKINSON (NOMINATED): Sir, I thank you for providing me this opportunity to speak on the matter under discussion. The microscopic Anglo-Indian community of which I am one of two in the Lok Sabha, are hundred per cent Christians.
Sir, I have listened to the issues raised by hon. Members who spoke before me. This being my maiden speech, I request you to hear me out fully. Sir, after listening to all the speakers, I find that everybody has been recollecting what had happened months and months back. Hardly any one of them is touching upon what exactly or happened during the last few months. This is regarding bomb blasts. I believe that this discussion was asked for only because of that.
Sir, the Deendar Anjuman at Hyderabad is at a distance of five minutes’ walk from my residence. I have attended several meetings that were called by them. They were inter-religious meetings. People from different religions attended these meetings. I am happy to say that all the meetings were called only for inter-communal harmony. That area is surrounded by a wall within which there are about 200 Muslim houses. All the Muslims who live there are feeling disturbed these days. They are not agreeing to what has been done by other persons living within that vicinity. They are extremely sad. They say they are Muslims and that they belong to India. They also say that if these people who come from Pakistan, stay in this area and make claim to this place, let these people be arrested and taken into custody under the law of the land.
* Not Recorded.
Sir, there were people who spoke in one or two of those meetings. They tried to whip passions of the people living within that area. However, the Muslims living around there have never heeded the voice of these people. Yes, there is no doubt that there were bomb blasts. No person was killed. Churches, Mosque and Temple were all upset over these blasts. We condemn in the strongest terms the violence and demand that arrested persons of Deendar Anjuman be thoroughly investigated so that those who are behind this sinister design are revealed. It is most unfortunate that the timing of explosions was always minutes before a meeting in the Church ended or minutes after the crowd came out. Eyewitnesses at all the places said the same thing. They saw some two persons walking in. Some say that they wore caps and that they left a bag in some part of the premises and walked away. It is unfortunate that not one of them even questioned these people who left the bag and walked away in spite of the Government coming out with so many messages that if you see somebody leaving his bag, please immediately accost the person and find out what is the problem.
Sir, there were attempts, I should say, to engineer the recent incidents and then doctor them so that there is no grave or fatal injuries and finally advocate on behalf of the Christian community. We had people rushing to the place, coming back the next day and stating that the people there say that it was the RSS who was responsible. Unfortunately, the people there do not know who the RSS was, they do not even know what is the meaning of RSS or the VHP. These are all cooked up stories only to discredit the NDA Government whenever the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh visited any of the church areas, there was a hue and cry asking him to withdraw TDP support to the NDA Government. There is a clear design on the part of not only people from across the border but also from within this country who are trying to destabilise this Government because they are afraid that never again will any of them occupy the Treasury Benches.
We all know that the main accused came out from Karnataka and we, in Andhra Pradesh, are happy failing which the blame and the accusation would have gone against the Chief Minister of Andhra Pradesh that he had engineered the reports of the Police. So, the tip of the iceberg started to break from Bangalore where another Government is in power. I have been saying that we have had, unfortunately, the Communist Party (Marxists) who came out on 30th June demanding a high-level inquiry commission by a High Court judge to go into the what is called ‘the deep-rooted conspiracy’ behind the string of attacks and wanted this on the lines of the Wadhwa Commission which went into the murder of Graham Staines. It means that they have accepted that the Wadhwa Commission Report was correct.
On 3rd July, they questioned the secular credentials of the BJP allies. On 27th July, they said that some anti-national elements were behind this communal issue. But, unfortunately, I would like to ask the Communist Party of India one point. They have asked the Chief Minister of A.P. to convene an all-Party meeting to discuss admission of students in minority institutions offering certain degree and post-degree courses. … (Interruptions)
Sir, I have much to say. I come from the area where these people were picked up. I have barely spoken for three minutes. I am not going to say anything about your Party.
They alleged violation of all norms and committing serious irregularities and malpractices and of giving preference to non-minority students whose parents were prepared to give huge donations. On the one side, you sympathise with the Christian community and on the other side, you protest. We are not charging huge donations and, at least, not the Catholic Church or the Catholic institutions. They are not taking huge donations. You may go to St. Colombus or to the Mont Fort schools. They do not accept any kind of donations. But I do not speak on behalf of other Christian institutions. This type of sympathy is really very bad. We had a Congress spokesman who visited two places. In a Press interview, I was the first person probably in the country state to before the Press and say that the ISI was involved in these activities going on in this country because the same day, I was sitting in the flight reading ‘Amnesty International – 2000’. I have read that hundreds of our Christian brothers in other Islamic countries are being killed brutally, or thrown out of their houses. The bishops are being pulled out, killed and other burnt. You cannot even offer your prayers. It does not happen in this country. You are free to visit your churches; you are free to visit your mosques or gurudwaras. Those things do not happen here. We are not pulled out or thrown out.
So, this was an attempt by the Congress spokesman that he wanted the Centre to come out with conclusive proof in regard to its allegation that the Pak-based ISI was behind the violent incidents. This was after his visit to churches at Ongole and Tadepalligudem and review of the incidents at Medak, Machilipatnam and Vikarabad. He said:
"There were clear indications that Sangh Parivar activists were distributing provocative leaflets besides issuing inflammatory statements."
"Shri Naidu supported the BJP and gave it a foothold in the State."
Who, may I ask Shri Jogi, is responsible for the Congress losing its strangle-hold in the country? … (Interruptions)
On June 26th, the Congress Legislature Party Leader in the Andhra Pradesh Assembly, Shri Y.S. Rajasekhar Reddy alleged that the Sangh Parivar was behind the blast in a mosque at Guntur and that the TDP’s support to the Coalition Government at the Centre is responsible for the increasing attacks on the minorities in Andhra Pradesh. He then questioned as to whom the Chief Minister would blame for the Guntur incident. I would like to know what has happened to Shri Rajasekhar Reddy after learning about the truth of the incidents and also about the recent brutal murder of a Bishop in Guntur when the hand of a son of a Congress leader is involved. After it has been known to the people of this country that the hand of no Sangh Parivar member or anybody from the BJP or from the NDA is involved, why is there a silence on the part of the parties who came out thinking themselves to be FBI or CIA trained investigators, going for an investigation, coming back and immediately blaming the Sangh Parivar or the other parties?
Sir, I would like to say that there are some interested parties taking advantage of the tolerant community, appropriating to themselves the right to speak, but speak in different tongues. Sadly, the Roman Catholic priests and nuns are the prime targets whereas it is known that unbaptised Christians masquerading as preachers, for reasons other than conversion, act in a manner that no other Christian denomination indulge in. Truly, these conversions are not Christian-like and what such individuals receive in return are known to most of us. Hate campaigns are being injected and innocent Christians are being taken for a ride. There are Christian leaders who say that their lives are in danger. They have been threatened by the very same person who has been criticised by Christians abroad that he is leading the Christian community down the wrong path.
Sir, I fail to understand as to how a member of the National Commission for Minorities has been blamed. If speaking the truth is wrong, then, I certainly feel that a lot of mistruth has been spoken from the other side also. We have seen another person, who was earlier a Member of this House, appealing to the Christian community to internationalise the terrorism against Christians in the country. The gentleman did not ever speak of the terrorism that the country is facing which has taken a toll of thousands of lives. He then says that his party is taking up the issue of attacks on Christians with the United Nations and says to reporters that the attacks on the Christian community was a part of the tacit understanding between the RSS and the ISI of Pakistan. So, at least, one gentleman understands the fact that the ISI’s hand is there behind these attacks.
Recently, the Bishops had spoken at a huge Christan meeting at Nizam Grounds in Hyderabad and they said: "We are Indians first and Christians thereafter". But a self-styled Catholic leader, who is an anti-national said: "We are Christians first and Christians last" and as such does not claim himself to be an Indian.
Sir, nowhere in the Bible is it said that Jesus, when subjected to cruelty - not known during those times - wished or expressed ill against those who tortured him with whipping, crowning with thorns, carrying a wooden cross, pierced with a lance and finally nailed to a cross. All that Jesus had to say was: "Father, forgive them for they know not what they do." But today, using the name of Jesus, tempted by Satanic forces and lured into causing rifts between religions and society, the Christians are being called to take to the streets and demonstrate even when it is against the wishes of the religious elders of the Church.
I call upon Christians to follow the teachings of Jesus and not that which are laid down by man. I call upon the people of this country to desist from making provocative statements and imaginary allegations but instead bring about cordial talks between the different religions and involve a few Christian Parliamentarians.
Sweeping statements were aired only when the minority community was attacked. One would have expected a periodical massacre of the dalits in Bihar to have rocked Parliament, but there was not even a mention of it. It means that the value of a life depends on the religion to which a person belongs. Are some lives expendable and others accountable by the Government? This is a blatant discrimination. Should human suffering and loss of lives be bartered in the hands of the Opposition just to embarrass the NDA Government and gain political mileage? Is not the Opposition equally responsible to inject a feeling of security and create a harmonious ethos in this country?
Finally, I conclude by repeating the words of a recently retired Archbishop who served this country for 28 years and never resorted to even a single conversion. He said, "I am an Indian by birth, a Christian by faith and a Hindu by culture." Brave and true words, Sir. Let us all follow the same path.
सभापति महोदय : वक्ताओं की सूची समाप्त हुई। गृह मंत्री का उत्तर कल दोपहर दो बजे होगा।
सदन कल १८ अगस्त, २००० के ग्यारह बजे तक के लिए स्थगित किया जाता है।
२२४३ बजे तत्पश्चात् लोक सभा शुक्रवार १८ अगस्त २००० / श्रावण २७ १९२२(शक) के ग्यारह बजे तक के लिए स्थगित हुई।
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