Regarding Approval Of The Proclamation Issued By The President Under The Article ... on 26 February, 1999

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Lok Sabha Debates

Regarding Approval Of The Proclamation Issued By The President Under The Article ... on 26 February, 1999

BR>Title: Regarding approval of the proclamation issued by the President under the Article 356 of the Constitution in relation to the State of Bihar. (Contd.) Resolution Adopted.

12.46 hrs MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The House shall now take up further discussion on the Statutory Resolution. Dr. Shakeel Ahmad was on his legs; he may continue.

DR. SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY (MADURAI): Sir, may I know when the voting on this would take place, so that I can be present?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I will let you know after some time.

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(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ... (Interruptions)

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR (MUMBAI NORTH-WEST): Sir, I am on a point of order. ... (Interruptions) b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù : ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉ½þÒ ½þè* +É{É {ÉÉ<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú ®úäWÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, ¨ÉèÆ ªÉÒ±b÷ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®ú ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Since Dr.Shakeel Ahmad has mentioned the name of Bala Sahib Thackrey, who is not present in the House and has said that Srikrishna Commission has fixed responsibility upon him and said that he was a criminal, he has to authenticate it. Then only, it should go on record, otherwise he cannot make such a reference here.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please do not take the help of such rules to raise an issue. He was referring to a Commission Report.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR (MUMBAI NORTH-WEST): He has not gone through the Report. Let him go through it...(Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: If you are going to argue like this, I cannot give my ruling. Please listen to what I am saying.

He was referring to a Commission Report. There is no rule saying that the name should not be mentioned. The only thing is, there should not be any derogatory reference to a person who is not present in the House. He is making a reference to the Report. So, he is allowed to do that....(Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÉä½þxÉ ®úÉ´É±Éä (¨ÉÖ¨¤É<Ç nùÊIÉhÉ-¨ÉvªÉ) : ±ÉäÊEòxÉ <x½þÉäÆxÉä ÊFòÊ¨ÉxÉ±É Eò½þEò®ú ¤ÉÉä±ÉÉ ½þè* MR. CHAIRMAN: The hon. Member has raised an issue and I am giving the ruling. Why are you talking like this?

There is nothing objectionable.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Nothing like that has been mentioned in the Report. He is not supposed to make a reference here. ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÉä½þxÉ ®úÉ´É±Éä : <x½þÉäÆxÉä ÊFòÊ¨ÉxÉ±É ´Éb÷Ç ¨ÉäÆ¶ÉxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè* MR. CHAIRMAN: You are not allowed, Shri Rawale.

... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: He has raised a point of order and that is why I am replying to him. Please take your seat. b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù :: MÞÉ½þ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ ¤ÉÉ®ú-¤ÉÉ®ú Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É EòÉ {Énù MÉè®ú-®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò ½þè* ªÉ½þ ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè, ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò nù±ÉÉäÆ Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉ +{ÉxÉä nù±É Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É ¤ÉxÉÉEò®ú ¦ÉäVÉiÉä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* VÉ¤É ªÉä Ê´É{ÉIÉ ¨ÉäÆ lÉä iÉÉä <ºÉEòÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ Eò®úiÉä lÉä, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ +ÉVÉ ºÉiiÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉEò®ú ªÉä ¦ÉÒ ´É½þÒ EòÉ¨É Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ¨ÉèÆ MÞÉ½þ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ ºÉä Eò½þÚÆMÉÉ ÊEò +É{ÉEòÉä BEòÉBEò ªÉ½þ EòèºÉä vªÉÉxÉ +É MÉªÉÉ ÊEò +É{ÉxÉä ÊVÉºÉä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É ¤ÉxÉÉEò®ú ¦ÉäVÉÉ ½þè, ´É½þ ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò +Énù¨ÉÒ ½þèÆ* VÉ¤É +É{ÉxÉä <xÉEòÒ {ÉÉäÊº]õÆMÉ EòÒ lÉÒ iÉÉä ½þ¨ÉxÉä Eò½þÉ lÉÉ ÊEò <xÉEòÒ {ÉÉäÊº]õÆMÉ xÉ Eò®úäÆ, ªÉä +É®ú.BºÉ.BºÉ. Eòä +Énù¨ÉÒ ½þèÆ +Éè®ú <x½þäÆ <ºÉÒÊ±ÉB ¦ÉäVÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ªÉä ®úÉ¤Éc÷Ò ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä Êb÷ºÉÊ¨ÉºÉ Eò®úäÆMÉä* VÉ¤É <x½þÉäÆxÉä ªÉ½þ EòÉ¨É Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ iÉÉä ®úÉiÉÉäÆ-®úÉiÉ +É{ÉEòÉä YÉÉxÉ ½þÖ+É ÊEò +É{ÉEòä ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É ¨É½þÉänùªÉ ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò +Énù¨ÉÒ ½þèÆ <ºÉÊ±ÉB <xÉEòÉä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ºÉä ½þ]õÉ nùäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ VÉ¤É +É®ú.BºÉ.BºÉ. +Éè®ú ¤ÉÒ.VÉä.{ÉÒ. EòÉ +É{É {É®ú nù¤ÉÉ´É {Éc÷É iÉÉä +É{ÉxÉä ½þ]õÉxÉä EòÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ¤Énù±É ÊnùªÉÉ* ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, 22 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ ºÉä ºÉÆºÉnù EòÉ ºÉjÉ lÉÉ* 21 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä ½þ¨É ªÉ½þÉÆ +ÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB {É]õxÉÉ BªÉ®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ {É½þÖÆSÉä* ´É½þÉÆ ºÉä ªÉ½þÉÆ +Éè®ú ªÉ½þÉÆ ºÉä ´É½þÉÆ +ÉxÉä-VÉÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB BEò ½þÒ Ê´É¨ÉÉxÉ ½þè* ªÉ½þ Ê´É¨ÉÉxÉ Ênù±±ÉÒ ºÉä ºÉÖ¤É½þ {É]õxÉÉ {É½þÖÆSÉiÉÉ ½þè* ½þ¨ÉxÉä ´É½þÉÆ nùäJÉÉ ÊEò ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉä ±ÉÉäMÉ ÊEòºÉÒ EòÒ +MÉ´ÉÉxÉÒ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB +{ÉxÉÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ZÉÆb÷ä Ê±ÉB JÉc÷ä ½þèÆ* ¨ÉèÆxÉä ºÉ¨ÉZÉÉ ÊEò ¶ÉÉªÉnù +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ VÉÒ ½þÉäÆMÉä* <x½þÉäÆxÉä ´É½þÉÆ EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¤ÉJÉÉÇºiÉ Eò®ú nùÒ ½þè <ºÉÊ±ÉB <xÉEòä nù±É Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉ <xÉEòÉ º´ÉÉMÉiÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þÉäÆMÉä ªÉÉ ¦ÉÉVÉ{ÉÉ EòÉ EòÉä<Ç +Éè®ú ¤Éc÷É xÉäiÉÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ* ¨ÉÖZÉä ÊVÉYÉÉºÉÉ ½þÖ<Ç ÊEò nùäJÉÚÆ ¦ÉÉVÉ{ÉÉ EòÉ EòÉèxÉ ´ªÉÊEiÉ +É ®ú½þÉ ½þè, iÉ¤É ¨ÉèÆxÉä nùäJÉÉ ÊEò ¦ÉÆb÷É®úÒ ºÉÉ½þ¤É, ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É VÉÒ +É ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, VÉÉä ÊEò Ênù±±ÉÒ ºÉä ±ÉÉè]õä lÉä* ½þ¨ÉxÉä <ÊiÉ½þÉºÉ ¨ÉäÆ BäºÉÉ Eò¦ÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ nùäJÉÉ +Éè®ú xÉ ½þÒ ºÉÖxÉÉ ÊEò ÊEòºÉÒ ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É Eòä º´ÉÉMÉiÉ Eòä Ê±ÉB ÊEòºÉÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ ZÉÆb÷É Ê±ÉB ±ÉÉäMÉ +ÉB ½þÉäÆ* b÷É. ¨ÉnùxÉ |ÉºÉÉnù VÉÉªÉºÉ´ÉÉ±É (¤ÉäÊiÉªÉÉ): ¨ÉèÆ ¦ÉÒ =ºÉ ´ÉEiÉ BªÉ®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ {É®ú lÉÉ, ´É½þÉÆ EòÉä<Ç ZÉÆb÷É xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÉ* ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ +ºÉiªÉ Eò½þ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ¸ÉÒ ®úÉVÉÉä ÊºÉÆ½þ (¤ÉäMÉÚºÉ®úÉªÉ): +É{É ºÉiªÉ ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆ, Ê½þ¨¨ÉiÉ ºÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆ ÊEò ZÉÆb÷É lÉÉ* MR. CHAIRMAN: You can speak when your turn comes.

... (Interruptions)

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat. This is not good. b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù : ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, +É{ÉEòÉä ªÉÉnù ½þÉäMÉÉ, VÉ¤É Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÉMÉ±É{ÉÖ®ú ¨ÉäÆ nùÆMÉÉ ½þÖ+É lÉÉ iÉÉä =ºÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ±ÉMÉ¦ÉMÉ 1200 ±ÉÉäMÉ ¨ÉÉ®úä MÉB lÉä* =ºÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ªÉ½þ iÉªÉ ½þÖ+É lÉÉ ÊEò b÷Ò.B¨É. +Éè®ú BºÉ.{ÉÒ. EòÉä ÊEòºÉÒ +xªÉ ÊVÉ±Éä ¨ÉäÆ {ÉnùºlÉÉÊ{ÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ VÉÉBMÉÉ, ÊVÉ±Éä EòÉ |É¦ÉÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ÊnùªÉÉ VÉÉBMÉÉ* =ºÉ ´ÉEiÉ Eòä ´É½þÒ b÷Ò.B¨É. +ÉVÉ ªÉ½þÉÆ BOÉÒEò±SÉ®ú Ê¨ÉÊxÉº]õ®úÒ ¨ÉäÆ ½þèÆ* 13.00 hrs. BºÉ.{ÉÒ. ºÉÉ½þ¤É Eò¦ÉÒ ®úä±É´Éä ¨ÉäÆ +Éè®ú Eò¦ÉÒ ¡òÚb÷ BÆb÷ ÊºÉÊ´É±É ºÉ{±ÉÉ<ÇVÉ ¨ÉäÆ lÉä ¨ÉMÉ®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉ ½þÖ+É? 13 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä ´É½þÉÆ ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ±ÉÉMÉÚ Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ EòÉä VÉÉxÉEò®ú +É¶SÉªÉÇ ½þÉäMÉÉ ÊEò <xÉEòä {ÉÉºÉ EòÉä<Ç nùÚºÉ®úÉ EòÉ¨É ½þc÷¤Éc÷Ò EòÉ xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÉ* ºÉ¤ÉºÉä {É½þ±ÉÉ EòÉ¨É ªÉ½þÒ lÉÉ ÊEò 14 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä VÉÉä BºÉ.{ÉÒ.nùºÉ ºÉÉ±É ºÉä ÊVÉ±Éä EòÒ {ÉÉäÊº]õÆMÉ EòÒ iÉ±ÉÉ¶É ¨ÉäÆ lÉÉ, 14 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä =ºÉä ¨ÉÖVÉ¡¡ò®ú{ÉÖ®ú ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÉäº]õ Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ* ªÉ½þ EªÉÉ ½þÉä ®ú½þÉ ½þè? ªÉ½þÒ xÉ½þÒÆ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉÉ<xÉÉìÊ®ú]õÒVÉ, ÊVÉx½þäÆ ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ Eòä +ÉÊ]õÇEò±É 30 Eòä +ÆiÉMÉÇiÉ ªÉ½þ ½þEò Ê¨É±ÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ´Éä +{ÉxÉä ]õÒÊSÉÆMÉ <Æº]õÒ]ªÉÚ¶ÉÆºÉ SÉ±ÉÉBÆ* ´É½þÉÆ EòÖUô ]õÒSÉºÉÇ ]ÅäÊxÉÆMÉ EòÉì±ÉäVÉ ½þèÆ, ÊVÉxÉEòÉ <¨iÉ½þÉxÉ <ºÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú Eòä Êb÷ºÉÊ¨ÉºÉ ½þÉäxÉä ºÉä {É½þ±Éä, SÉÚÆÊEò Ê¶ÉIÉÉ EòÉ ¨ÉÉ¨É±ÉÉ BäºÉÉ ½þè ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. CHAIRMAN : Dr. Shakeel Ahmad, do you want to finish before we adjourn for lunch? I think, you can finish it in two minutes. b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù : {ÉÉÆSÉ Ê¨ÉxÉ]õ ¨ÉäÆ +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* VÉÉä ]õÒÊSÉÆMÉ <Æº]õÒ]ªÉÚ¶ÉÆºÉ ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É Eòä +vÉÒxÉ +ÉiÉä ½þèÆ, EòÉä<Ç ¦ÉÒ ¤ÉÒ.Bb÷. <iªÉÉÊnù <Æº]õÒ]ªÉÚ¶ÉxÉ VÉÉä ¨ÉÉ<xÉÉìÊ®ú]õÒVÉ Eòä ½þèÆ, =x½þäÆ Ê{ÉUô±Éä Uô: ¨É½þÒxÉä ºÉä <¨iÉ½þÉxÉ ±ÉäxÉä EòÒ <WÉÉVÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* ªÉ½þÒ xÉ½þÒÆ, ´É½þÉÆ EòÖUô b÷äÆ]õ±É EòÉì±ÉäVÉäVÉ ½þèÆ +Éè®ú VÉ¤É Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú Ênù±±ÉÒ +ÉiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä b÷äÆ]õ±É EòÉ=ÆÊºÉ±É +Éì¡ò <ÆÊb÷ªÉÉ EòÉä ¤ÉÖ±ÉÉEò®ú ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò +É{ÉxÉä ¨ÉÉ<xÉÉìÊ®ú]õÒVÉ Eòä <iÉxÉä EòÉì±ÉäVÉäVÉ EòÉä EòèºÉä B±ÉÉ= Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ, +É{É ªÉ½þ ¤ÉiÉÉBÆ +Éè®ú ¨ÉèÆ ªÉ½þ {ÉÚ®úÒ ÊVÉ¨¨ÉänùÉ®úÒ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ Eò½þ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ, <ºÉÊ±ÉB Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä ½þÖ+É ½þè, ´É½þ MÉ±ÉiÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè* +É<Ç.BºÉ.+É<Ç.. xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÖ+É, ¨ÉVÉÉEò ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ ½þè* +MÉ®ú +É<Ç.BºÉ.+É<Ç. xÉä EòÖUô MÉc÷¤Éc÷Ò EòÒ ½þè iÉÉä =ºÉEòÒ ÊVÉ¨¨ÉänùÉ®úÒ MÞÉ½þ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ {É®ú ½þè, <x½þäÆ iªÉÉMÉ-{ÉjÉ nùäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* +É<Ç.BºÉ.+É<Ç. . EòÉ iÉÉä ªÉ½þ ½þÉ±É ½þè ÊEò <xÉEòÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä VÉÉä ºÉnùºªÉ ¨ÉÖZÉºÉä ½þÉ®úä ½þèÆ, =x½þÉäÆxÉä ¨ÉÖZÉ {É®ú <±ÉäE¶ÉxÉ {ÉèÊ]õ¶ÉxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè, <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þÉ ½þè ÊEò SÉÚÆÊEò ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù BEò ¨ÉÖÊº±É¨É ½þè iÉÉä =x½þÒÆ Eòä +É<Ç.BºÉ.+É<Ç. Eòä BEò BVÉäÆ]õ xÉä +ÉEò®ú <xÉEòä Ê±ÉB ¤ÉÚlÉ Eò¤VÉÉ Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ ½þè* +É<Ç.BºÉ.+É<Ç. EòÉä iÉÉä <x½þÉäÆxÉä +Éè®ú <xÉEòÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä EªÉÉ JÉä±É ¤ÉxÉÉªÉÉ ½þè, ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ÊEòºÉÒ ºÉä ÊUô{ÉÒ ½þÖ<Ç xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* ªÉä BºÉ.ºÉÒ. +Éè®ú nùÊ±ÉiÉ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä |Éä¨É +Éè®ú ºxÉä½þ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ, EªÉÉ ´É½þ PÉ]õxÉÉ ¦ÉÚ±É MÉB? VÉÉxÉ ºÉä VªÉÉnùÉ Ê½þ¢òÉVÉiÉ +Éè®ú VªÉÉnùÉ +ÉºÉÉxÉÒ ÊEòºÉÒ EòÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ EòÉä ®úJÉxÉä ¨ÉäÆ ½þè* ÊEòºÉÒ EòÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ EòÉä `öäºÉ xÉ½þÒÆ {É½þÖÆSÉÉxÉÒ SÉÉÊ½þB* +É{É ºÉ¨{ÉÚhÉÉÇxÉxnù VÉÒ EòÒ ¨ÉÚÊiÉÇ EòÒ PÉ]õxÉÉ EòÉä ¦ÉÚ±É MÉB? ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ º´ÉMÉÒÇªÉ ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÚ VÉMÉVÉÒ´ÉxÉ ®úÉ¨É VÉÒ xÉä VÉ¤É ºÉ¨{ÉÚhÉÉÇxÉxnù VÉÒ EòÒ ¨ÉÚÊiÉÇ EòÉ +xÉÉ´É®úhÉ ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ iÉÉä +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä =ºÉä MÉÆMÉÉ VÉ±É ºÉä {ÉÊ´ÉjÉ Eò®ú´ÉÉªÉÉ lÉÉ* +ÉVÉ +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä ½þÊ®úVÉxÉÉäÆ +Éè®ú nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ªÉÉnù +É ®ú½þÒ ½þè +Éè®ú ªÉ½þÒ xÉ½þÒÆ, ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÉ ºÉÉ½þ¤É ¦ÉÒ¨É®úÉ´É +¨¤Éäb÷Eò®ú VÉÒ, ªÉ½þÉÆ ¤ÉÊ½þxÉ ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ ¤Éè`öÒ ½þèÆ, nùÊ±ÉiÉ BÊVÉ±É¨É±ÉÉ<Ç VÉÒ ¤±ÉÚ ®úÆMÉ EòÒ Eò¨ÉÒVÉ {É½þxÉiÉä ½þèÆ, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ÊEò ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÉ +¨¤Éäb÷Eò®ú VÉÒ EòÉä ªÉ½þ ®úÆMÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ {ÉºÉÆnù lÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆxÉä BEò ÊnùxÉ =xÉºÉä {ÉÚUôÉ ÊEò +É{É ªÉ½þ ¤±ÉÚ ¶É]õÇ ½þÒ EªÉÉäÆ {É½þxÉiÉä ½þèÆ?

... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) =x½þÉäÆxÉä ¤ÉiÉÉªÉÉ ÊEò +¨¤Éäb÷Eò®ú VÉÒ EòÉä ªÉ½þ ®úÆMÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ {ÉºÉÆnù lÉÉ, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ {É½þxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ªÉ½þÉÆ nùÊ±ÉiÉ BÊVÉ±É¨É±ÉÉ<Ç VÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þèÆ, ´É½þ ºÉ{ÉÉä]õÇ BEò BäºÉÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉä Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, BEò ºÉVVÉxÉ xÉä ÊEòiÉÉ¤É Ê±ÉJÉÒ ½þè "Worshipping false Gods." +¯ûhÉ ¶ÉÉè®úÒ VÉÒ VÉèºÉä ´ªÉÊEiÉ xÉä, ÊVÉx½þÉäÆxÉä ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÉ +¨¤Éäb÷Eò®ú ºÉÉ½þ¤É EòÉä +{É¨ÉÉÊxÉiÉ ÊEòªÉÉ, =x½þÒÆ EòÉä ®úÉVªÉ ºÉ¦ÉÉ EòÉ +É{ÉxÉä ¨Éä¨¤É®ú ¤ÉxÉÉ ÊnùªÉÉ +Éè®ú =ºÉÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä nùÊ±ÉiÉ BÊVÉ±É¨É±ÉÉ<Ç VÉÒ ºÉ{ÉÉä]õÇ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ VÉÉä ¤±ÉÚ ®úÆMÉ EòÒ ¶É]õÇ <ºÉÊ±ÉB {É½þxÉiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÉ +¨¤Éäb÷Eò®ú ºÉÉ½þ¤É EòÉä ¤±ÉÚ ®úÆMÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ {ÉºÉÆnù lÉÉ* ªÉä nùÉä®úÆMÉä SÉÊ®újÉ ½þèÆ, ªÉ½þ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäxÉä SÉÉÊ½þB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ VÉÒ +Éè®ú ¦ÉÆb÷É®úÒ VÉÒ, ªÉä ´É½þÒ ±ÉÉäMÉ ½þèÆ ÊVÉx½þÉäÆxÉä ºÉ¦ÉÒ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä +{É¨ÉÉÊxÉiÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè SÉÉ½þä ´Éä nùÊ±ÉiÉ ½þÉäÆ, ªÉÉ Ê{ÉUôc÷ä ½þÉäÆ ªÉÉ +±{ÉºÉÆJªÉEò ½þÉäÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +É{ÉxÉä +¯ûhÉ ¶ÉÉè®úÒ VÉÒ EòÉä ¤ÉxÉÉªÉÉ ½þè ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. CHAIRMAN: He is not yielding. You please take your seat. If he is yielding, I have no objection.

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÉä½þxÉ ®úÉ´É±Éä : ¨ÉèÆ BEò ½þÒ ºÉ´ÉÉ±É {ÉÚUôxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨Éä®úÉ {´ÉÉ<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨ÉèÆ VÉÉxÉEòÉ®úÒ nùäxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. CHAIRMAN: He is not yielding. You please take your seat. If he is yielding, I have no objection.

... (Interruptions) b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù : ¨ÉèÆ nùÉä Ê¨ÉxÉ]õ ¨ÉäÆ EòÆE±ÉÚb÷ Eò®ú ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ªÉ½þ ºÉiªÉ ½þè ÊEò <x½þÉäÆxÉä +¯ûhÉ ¶ÉÉè®úÒ VÉÒ EòÉä ¤ÉxÉÉªÉÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ´É½þ ªÉ½þÉÆ xÉ½þÒÆ ¤Éè`öä ½þèÆ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ =xÉEòä ºÉÉlÉÒ VÉÉä ªÉ½þÉÆ ¤Éè`öä ½þèÆ, ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¶ÉEòÒ±É VÉÉ®úÒ +ÆiÉ ¨ÉäÆ, ¨ÉèÆ nùÉä ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* BEò iÉÉä Ê½þ¨ÉÉSÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ §É¹]õÉSÉÉ®ú EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú nùÚºÉ®úä ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù VÉÒ Eòä ªÉ½þÉÆ VÉÉä CBI +Éè®ú <xÉEò¨É ]õèEºÉ xÉä UôÉ{ÉÉ ¨ÉÉ®úÉ, =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ =xÉEòÉä EòÖUô xÉ½þÒÆ Ê¨É±ÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ CBI EòÉä EòÉä<Ç ºÉÊ]õÇÊ¡òEòä]õ xÉ½þÒÆ nùä ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò =xÉEòÉä EòÖUô xÉ½þÒÆ Ê¨É±ÉÉ* ¨ÉMÉ®ú nùÚºÉ®úÒ iÉ®ú¡ò ÊVÉºÉ +Énù¨ÉÒ Eòä PÉ®ú UôÉ{ÉÉ {Éc÷É +Éè®ú iÉÊEòB Eòä xÉÒSÉä ºÉä SÉÉ®ú Eò®úÉäc÷ ¯û{ÉB ÊxÉEò±Éä, ÊVÉºÉEòÉä EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ xÉä ÊxÉEòÉ±É ÊnùªÉÉ, =ºÉEòÉä +É{ÉxÉä ±Éä Ê±ÉªÉÉ* ºÉnùxÉ Eòä BEò ¨Éè¨¤É®ú lÉä +Éè®ú =xÉEòä ¤Éä]õä EòÉä ®úÉVªÉ ºÉ¦ÉÉ EòÒ ºÉnùºªÉiÉÉ nùÒ iÉlÉÉ =xÉEòÉä Êb÷{]õÒ SÉÒ¡ò Ê¨ÉÊxÉº]õ®ú ¤ÉxÉÉªÉÉ* ªÉä §É¹]õÉSÉÉ®ú EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ, <xÉEòä SÉä½þ®úä nùäÊJÉB* ¨ÉèÆ BEò ¤ÉÉiÉ ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ ¤É½þxÉ +Éè®ú ®úÉ¨ÉÊ´É±ÉÉºÉ {ÉÉºÉ´ÉÉxÉ VÉÒ ºÉä Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* nùÊ±ÉiÉÉä EòÉä ºÉÉä¡]õ ]õÉMÉÇä]õ ¨ÉiÉ ¤ÉxÉÉ<B* nùÊ±ÉiÉÉä EòÉä ¤É½þÉxÉÉ ¨ÉiÉ ¤ÉxÉxÉä nùÒÊVÉB* ¦ÉÊ´É¹ªÉ ¨ÉäÆ EòÉä<Ç ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò {ÉÉ]õÒÇ ½þÉä, EòÉä<Ç MÉ±ÉiÉ +Énù¨ÉÒ ½þÉä ªÉÉ ÊEòºÉÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú Eòä ÊJÉ±ÉÉ¡ò EòÖUô Eò½þxÉÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ, iÉÉä SÉÉ®ú nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ Eò®ú nùäÆMÉä ªÉÉ nùºÉ nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ Eò®ú nùäÆMÉä* ªÉ½þ {É®ú¨{É®úÉ ¨ÉiÉ ¤ÉxÉÉ<B* +É{É =ºÉ ´ÉMÉÇ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ +xªÉÉªÉ Eò®ú nùÒÊVÉBMÉÉ, ÊVÉºÉEòÉ xÉäiÞÉi´É +É{É Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ, ÊVÉºÉEòÉ |ÉÊiÉÊxÉÊvÉi´É +É{É Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ* ®úÉ¨ÉÊ´É±ÉÉºÉ VÉÒ EòÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä VÉÉä ±ÉÉäMÉ ªÉ½þÉÆ ¤Éè`öä ½þèÆ, ¨ÉèÆ =xÉºÉä +ÉOÉ½þ Eò°üÆMÉÉ ÊEò ÊxÉÊ¶SÉiÉ °ü{É ºÉä ªÉ½þ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* ªÉ½þ MÉ±ÉiÉ {É®ú¨{É®úÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉxÉxÉÒ SÉÉÊ½þB, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ªÉ½þÒÆ ½þÖ+É ½þè* ¨Éä®úä Eò½þxÉä EòÉ ¨ÉiÉ±É¤É ½þè ÊEò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ +xªÉÉªÉ ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè* +xªÉÉªÉ ªÉ½þ ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ÊVÉºÉxÉä JÉÚ±É Eò®ú´ÉÉªÉÉ, ÊVÉºÉxÉä ½þiªÉÉ Eò®ú´ÉÉ<Ç, ´É½þÒÆ ±ÉÉ¶É EòÉ MÉÉÊVÉÇªÉxÉ ¤ÉxÉ MÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú ´É½þÒ b÷è¨ÉÉäFòäºÉÒ EòÒ nùÖ½þÉ<Ç nùäiÉÉ ½þè* ªÉ½þ ºÉ¤É BEò {É®ú{ÉVÉ ºÉä ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ ÊVÉ¨¨ÉänùÉ®úÒ ºÉä Eò½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò <xÉ nùÉäxÉÉäÆ ½þiªÉÉ+ÉäÆ EòÒ VÉÉÆSÉ ½þÉäxÉÒ SÉÉÊ½þB ÊEò ÊxÉÊ¶SÉiÉ °ü{É ºÉä <ºÉEòä {ÉÒUô ÊEòºÉ-ÊEòºÉEòÉ ½þÉlÉ ½þè* ªÉ½þ BEò º{ÉèÊºÉÊ¡òEò ¡òèºÉ±Éä Eòä iÉ½þiÉ ¦ÉäVÉÉ MÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú BMVÉÒEªÉÚ¶ÉxÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ MÞÉ½þ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ EòÉä ®úÉiÉ ½þÒ ®úÉiÉ ¨ÉäÆ YÉÉxÉ ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ ÊEò ¦ÉÆb÷É®úÒ VÉÒ ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò +Énù¨ÉÒ ½þèÆ +Éè®ú =xÉEòÉä +¤É Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ ®ú½þxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ +{ÉxÉÒ {ÉÚ®úÒ ¶ÉÊEiÉ ºÉä +{ÉxÉÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ +Éè®ú {ÉÚ®úä ºÉnùxÉ Eòä ºÉ¦ÉÒ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ ºÉä, +É{É¨ÉäÆ iÉÉä <iÉxÉÒ <SUôÉ¶ÉÊEiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè ÊEò +É{É <ºÉEòÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ Eò®ú ºÉEòäÆ, ¨ÉMÉ®ú ¤ÉÉEòÒ VÉÉä ±ÉÉäMÉ ½þèÆ, VÉÉä nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ Eòä Ê±ÉB EòÉ¨É Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ, ÊVÉxÉEòä ¨ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ Eòä Ê±ÉB {ÉÒc÷É ½þè, ½þÉlÉ VÉÉäc÷ Eò®ú +ÉOÉ½þ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉä nùÉÆ´É {É®ú ¨ÉiÉ ±ÉMÉÉ<B, nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉ VÉÒxÉÉ ¨ÉÖ½þÉ±É ¨ÉiÉ EòÒÊVÉB* <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ VÉÒ uÉ®úÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ºÉä ºÉÆ¤ÉÆÊvÉiÉ VÉÉä |ÉºiÉÉ´É <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉªÉÉ ½þè, =ºÉEòÉ ½þ®ú iÉ®ú½þ ºÉä Ê´É®úÉävÉ ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you Dr. Shakeel Ahmad.

The House stands adjourned to meet again at 1405 hours.

13.07 hrs The Lok Sabha then adjourned for Lunch till five minutes past Fourteen of the Clock.

-----

14.07 hrs The Lok Sabha re-assembled after Lunch at seven minutes past Fourteen of the Clock.

(Mr. Speaker in the Chair) MR. SPEAKER: Now, Shri Jaswant Singh to make a statement.

14.21 hours MR. SPEAKER: Now, the House will take up the Statutory Resolution for approval of Proclamation of President in relation to the State of Bihar.

THE MINISTER OF POWER, MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF NON-CONVENTIONAL ENERGY SOURCES (SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM): Mr. Speaker, Sir, with your kind permission I want to say one thing. During the debate yesterday, some Members while actually speaking on the issue of the Resolution for approval of President's Rule in the State of Bihar had quite inadvertently used the name of the President. According to me because of the thin line that exists when one talks of a President's Proclamation between using the name of the President for influencing the debate and referring to the President's steps when influencing the debate, I believe there have been some small transgressions by many Members. And because of strict interpretation that might come, may I, therefore, request you to look into the debate and decide which are the portions which might amount to transgression of Rule 352 (6) and decide to remove those portions so that we would be within the Rules so far this debate is concerned? This is a fine line but one has to observe it, to the extent possible. So, the Members cannot refer to his name in the proceedings.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): Are you saying this in an advisory capacity?

THE MINISTER OF POWER, MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF NON-CONVENTIONAL ENERGY SOURCES (SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM): No. I am saying this in the capacity of Minister of Parliamentary Affairs.

MR. SPEAKER: In this regard, the Chair also wants to make some observations. Rule 352 (vi) of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha regarding the Rules to be observed by the Members while speaking is clear and categorical.

It is to the effect that a Member while speaking shall not inter alia use the President's name for the purpose of influencing the debate.

"352. A member while speaking shall not--

(vi) use the President's name for the purpose of influencing the debate."

Therefore, the proceedings relating to the Resolution for approval of the imposition of President's Rule in Bihar and discussion thereon will be scrutinised thoroughly and those parts of the proceedings whih are violative of Rule 352 (vi) will be removed therefrom and shall not form part of the same.

Now, Shri Indrajit Gupta.

SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA (MIDNAPORE): Sir, this Bihar episode relating to article 356 has, in my opinion, thrown open once again the whole debate or discussion on this article - why exactly it was framed for, how it should be interpreted, what should be the parameters within which this article is to be exercised or implemented, and so on.

Sir, naturally, different Parties, different State Governments have got different views.

There is an article -- Article 263 -- in the Constitution which has created or provides for the creation of a constitutional institution known as the Inter-State Council. This Inter-State Council has been devised by the framers of the Constitution as a constitutional device by which differences or differing opinions about the relationship between the Centre and the States can be discussed and perhaps can lead to some agreed conclusions or at least to some common perception and guidelines.

Sir, there was a time, long ago, of course, when practically one can say that there was one party ruling, both at the Centre and in the States. That was many many years ago. At that time this Article 263 was never made use of. It was never resorted to because, although the State and the Central Governments were different the party which was ruling was the same. But now we are in a totally different era. We have got different parties ruling in different States and we have got, at the Centre, a stage into which we have entered, it seems, of coalitions of several parties coming together and constituting a Government at the Centre. Therefore, in my opinion, the use of Article 263 has become very very important and urgent now to discuss inter-State issues and inter-State disputes.

The Congress Government, while it was exercising power at the Centre, for close to fifty years, never utilised this Article. So far as I am aware, this Inter-State Council was allowed to remain dormant. It was never called into action. Its meetings were never convened and no attempt was made to see that it grappled with serious problems which affect the Centre and the States. The party may have been the same, but the States are not the same and they have their differences, they have their disputes.

So, I am only reminding you and reminding the House that it was only after a long long time and after the United Front Government came to power that this institution of Inter-State Council was revived, was called into action. It held three-four meetings on important questions which affect the Centre and the States.

One, for example, was the question of how the Central finances should be distributed between the different States; how the Central finances should be devolved to the State Governments. This was a matter in which the Inter-State Council sat there with all the members present. The members of the Inter-State Council happened to be the Chief Ministers, so that all the different political ideologies and views were represented adequately through the Chief Ministers. They did reach a consensus regarding the devolution of Central finances to the States. Three or four meetings were held and there was, I should say, quite healthy exchange of views.

These meetings were convened by the Ministry of Home Affairs, at a time, when I happened to be In-charge. Then we also discussed at great length this question of Article 356, which is a controversial matter, of course.

An attempt was being made and the Chief Ministers there all expressed a desire that we should try to reach some sort of a consensus on how this article should be used, when it should be used, when it should not be used and so on. I may say -- I am cutting short, Sir, of course -- that ultimately a broad consensus was reached and that consensus was that this article 356 should be retained in the Constitution but with some adequate safeguards put in, which would prevent the misuse of this article by the Party which happens to be in power at the Centre. Only one State Government, as far as I recall, one State Chief Minister, that is of Punjab representing the Akali Party held a different view and their view was that this article 356 should be deleted from the Constitution; it should not be kept at all. They said that Punjab had been the victim of this article; several times they have had a very bitter experience and they want this article to go. Of course, latterly, recently, if Press reports are correct, I find that there has been a slight shift again in their stand. Well, that is up to them to explain.

But the other Chief Ministers, whether they belong to Congress or BJP or Shiv Sena or Left or TDP they were all there, they were unanimously of the view that this article is not to be deleted; it is necessary to retain it but at the same time they were all of the view that in view of the past experience and history of this article, which has been misused so many times for political purposes, some safeguards will have to be introduced into this article to see if it is possible to prevent, at least to minimise the possibilities of its being misused to suit the interests of the Party in power. We were engaged in this discussion.

I think, it was quite an interesting and quite a fruitful discussion from which something might have emerged. Many suggestions and many proposals were being made by different Chief Ministers. But fortunately or unfortunately -- it depends on what view one takes -- our United Front Government was pulled down before we could complete this exercise. Therefore, now we are back again to this controversial question which has arisen in this case on the concrete instance of Bihar.

I would remind the House, Sir, if you look at the Constitution, article 356 is an article, a provision which occurs in the Chapter on Emergency Provisions. The heading is `Emergency Provisions', and within that Chapter there is this article 356. This by itself indicates that this is meant to operate in a very very unusual and very critical kind of situations; it is not a normal thing which can be used lightly or at any time; the failure of the constitutional machinery in any State, putting it briefly, is the main cause, the main argument which is put forward; the failure of any State to comply with the constitutional requirements or provisions and then the question has to be decided whether it is a fit case for intervention under this article or not. I am saying this because here so many arguments have been put forward; most of them, I should say, are relating to the question of law and order. The Constitution does not say anything about this.

Law and order can be defined in many ways, the incidence of crime, the growth in the rate of crime, the character of these crimes which are being committed, and which are being committed with impunity, I should say, not only in Bihar but in so many States. If it was only in Bihar, then the situation in our country as a whole would perhaps not be so serious. I do not want to go into all these because some friends may start protesting but then some statistics, Government statistics relating to different types of crime year by year in different States were also read out by the Leader of the Opposition.

That shows a horrifying picture. But that picture is not confined to Bihar by any means. This is not what is meant by the failure of constitutional machinery. Law and order whether we like it or not, according to the Constitution, is the function of the State Government, to uphold or not to uphold. There can be other remedies for that. There have to be. Nobody can just sit back and watch the law and order situation deteriorating in so many States. I do not want to name all those States because again there will be some protests and uproar here which I do not want to create. For example, I do not think my friends here, sitting next to me, will object if I simply say that in the city of Mumbai an organised gang warfare is going on. Everybody knows it. It may be that dalits are not killed every day, but they have also been killed and shot down. There are organised gangs, armed gangs which are fighting each other, which are busy killing those people whom they do not like. These gangs reminds, when you read the accounts, something like that used to happen in the United States of America in the city of Chicago at one time, which was very notorious for these gang wars. These organised gangs are operating in Mumbai for a long time now, killing each other and also killing certain businessmen, industrialists and such type of people, leaders of big smuggling gangs and all that. I do not know what one should say about this. Should one say that because of this, there should be intervention through President's Rule? We have never said that. I do not say it even now. So, what I am saying is that there is a list of crimes like murder, rape, kidnapping or extortion. Extortion of money is certainly a criminal offence and that is very widespread in the country. There is a forcible extortion of money on the threat of your life. This is not really relevant in this context of Article 356. I do not wish to name certain other States. For example, in the North East there are some States, I do not want to name them. (Interruptions). As the Minister of Home Affairs, I had the occasion to visit many of these places and interact with the people, with the State Governments, with different parties and all that. There are a number of States in the North East where so many people are being killed. The armed groups are operating there. You can call them militant groups or whatever you like. Sometimes, transport is held up on the National Highways for weeks together, months together and forcible extortion is going on. Everybody knows it. There were reports that some Ministers, in one or two cases, the Chief Minister of some particular State was supposed to be having secret collusions with some of these militant groups, helping them, giving them money and shelter and so on. It is a serious matter. But we did not, at any time, suggest that the Government should be dismissed and we should have President's Rule.

So, what I am saying in the beginning is that all these instances of crimes and also rampant corruptions -- of course, there is no need to go into corruption-- cannot be solved or put down by resorting to President's Rule.

What is the guarantee that President's rule, if it is brought in will improve matters in these respects? Is there any guarantee? Those who are advocating the President's rule so strenuously should also give the House some confidence, some feeling, that they are in a position or in a condition where they could tackle these problems successfully.

When I was the Minister of Home Affairs for a short while I paid three or four visits to Bihar; and not only to these places where people have been butchered. It is a horrible thing. I will not forget it for the rest of my life. But in some of the villages we saw the bodies of the people, l5, 20, or 30, 60 in one case, in one village, including a number of women and small children who had been butchered.

But I would say that it is the primary duty in which my Government failed. I admit it. That the State Government, the affected State should be helped by the Centre above all, not by introducing the President's rule but by helping that State Government to suppress those criminals and to strengthen the law and order machinery in that State.

We thought of many things, we tried to do some things. We issued some instructions, directions, set up task forces, did this and did that, but nothing much came out of it. Above all, the State Police, there can never be any kind of reasonable law and order in a State, if the State Police, the Police of that State is not rendered capable of dealing with these matters. One cannot deal by sending the Army there or sending only the Central Police Force which sometimes have to go of course when the State asks for help. But normally if the Police of that State is so much weakened or so much -- what shall I say -- inefficient or demoralised that they are not able to cope with the situation at all, then one cannot do anything. One has to help the state Police with training, with funds, with equipment, with communication equipment, with transport and above all with effective officers to lead them and of course in the case of Bihar the whole question of land reforms to which so many friends have referred to, quite rightly which is so urgent, it is actually a class war -- what is going on is a class war -- between the haves and the have nots . Those who were landless have been landless for years and those who have managed to grab the lion's share of the land, of course, do not want to part with it. This struggle is going on there.

If I may just give one small instance about the kind of things that were happening, in one of those places where large scale killings had taken place, I found shortly before the killers had arrived on the scene and started their action, there were some Police pickets which had been posted there. Because there was information that something might` happen there. Some police pickets were there round about that area within a very short distance. But when the firing went on, the killings went on, shoutings and screamings of the victims could be heard, nobody came, nobody interfered, nobody did anything.

I personally spoke to some of those Policemen manning those pickets. I asked him, "Look, you were posted here, here is this village which is within eye sight and while all this was going on what were you doing? Why did you not try to go to their help?" I must tell you the reply that one Policeman gave me.

He said, " ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ EòÉ¨É iÉÉä ±ÉÉ¶ÉÉäÆ EòÉä =`öÉxÉÉ ½þè*" "

Our job is to pick up the bodies." (Interruptions) It is all right but there is a police. Do not tell me that Shri Lalu Prasad or somebody in the Government had instructed them that your only job is -

"±ÉÉ¶É EòÉä =`öÉ+Éä, +Éè®ú EòÖUô ¨ÉiÉ Eò®úÉä*"

But this is the state of utter demoralization to which the police there have come to. I was told by the senior officers of the State Government there, the IGP, the DGP and the Home Secretary -- they were always used to sit with us in Conferences -- that there were numerous examples of policemen who had been provided with ammunition, certain rounds of ammunitions, so many cartridges for their use. EòÉ®úiÉÚºÉ =xÉEòÉä ÊnùªÉÉ VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè.

And, it was found later than that a substantial part of this ammunition was being sold in the market by them. In stead of being used for any security purposes, these cartridges were being sold in the market. We gave a lot of directives and instructions to the senior officers but I am afraid that nothing much came out of it. We also asked them whether they could compile, block by block, a list of all the land which is available in that block for distribution to the landless people. They said, "Yes, we can." Then, if you can do that, why can steps not be taken to distribute that land? So, decisions were taken that within one month or two months, all this would be done. Later on, we found that nothing was done. This reign of terror which was being perpetrated by the Ranabir Sena on behalf of the landlords, on behalf of the vested interests, was continuing. It is mainly on account of the collapse of the police force. I submit that President's Rule will not solve this kind of state of affairs. The RJD Government was also ineffective. Maybe, it was incompetent. But you do not dismiss Governments only because of incompetence. Then, you have to go round dismissing so many Governments.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Including the Central Government.

SHRI INDRAJIT GUPTA : But my point is that from the very first day, as has been stated here earlier yesterday I think, the BJP Government, since it came to power at the Centre, was out to overthrow this State Government in Bihar. I think this is one aspect of the class war which is going on. These poor landless Dalits, Scheduled Caste people and others who are agricultural labourers by profession, most of them, are locked in this kind of battle. You can say, they also kill people. Well, whether they kill or somebody, on their behalf, kills is a different matter because there are some parties, some political groups operating in that area. I am sure the Prime Minister knows it. Who had taken up arms on behalf of these poor people? They also preach there that we should take revenge. If you are going to be killed, somebody is killed, you should kill 10 people on the other side. Then alone something will happen. This has been going on.

So, I say that when the BJP Government at the Centre decided to change the Governor in Bihar and to install in his place an RSS hard core man, why did it decide? It should tell us that. This was done in defiance. I hope Mr. Home Minister is listening because he is supposed to know that there is a clear direction by the Sarkaria Commission that in choosing Governors for States, every care should be taken to see that first of all it should be somebody preferably from outside the State not involved in the State politics;

secondly, it should be somebody who is not a very active political figure; and thirdly, of course, the Chief Minister of the State should be consulted. That does not mean that he must agree. He may or may not agree, but he should be consulted. But the appointment of Shri Sunder Singh Bhandari, in my opinion, was a clear violation of this Sarkaria directive. Some people here were very surprised that why we were objecting to the fact that Shri Bhandari had said in an interview or somewhere that he was proud to be an RSS man. He can be proud, I do not mind. Let him be as proud as he likes. The point is, once he has become a Governor, he is occupying a high constitutional office. Shri Sarkaria has said that it should be a person who is not involved actively in politics. It is not his job to sit there and say that he is an RSS man and he is proud to be and he will continue to be.

Then, I would say that in between when Shri Bhandari was suddenly removed temporarily - he was temporarily removed and then later brought back again - the Press reported him as saying, when he was asked by some journalist, - if he feels that he has been quoted wrongly, he should say so - that "In my opinion, it would be preferable in such places to have a Governor who is apolitical" - apolitical means above politics. He said that an apolitical man should be the Governor. Well, the hint was quite obvious that he was considering Shri Bhandari to be a political person and that is why he was being shifted from Patna. Then, after a few days he was brought back again. I do not know how and why that happened; I would like to hear an explanation from the Home minister. Was it due to the pressure of the RSS? Is it not a fact that the RSS is dictating who should be or should not be the Governor in a State like Bihar? I do not know, but this is what happened. Everybody knows that. Whether the Bihar Chief Minister was consulted or not before this appointment, I do not know; they can tell us.

What I am saying is that at the Centre whichever party or maybe group of parties in a coalition happen to be in power, I can understand that there is always a political temptation. You have got this weapon of article 356 in your hands. If there is some State Government whom you do not like, who is giving you trouble, who is opposing you on many things, you have always got this weapon available to get rid of that Government. It is a temptation. If you can get the use of this article approved, well the easiest thing is to go ahead and get rid of the State Government which may belong to a party, which may be run by a party which is opposed to you. I think the test of statesmanship is to see that you do not fall prey to this temptation so easily. I am reminded of the example of Uttar Pradesh during the regime of our United Front Government. When we came very near to the brink of using article 356 against Shri Kalyan Singh, do our BJP friends not remember that? Such a proposal was sent to the Rashtrapati. The Rashtrapati sent it back. Shri Kalyan Singh had managed just a few days earlier to get a substantial majority in the U.P. Assembly, which was also one of the factor that weighed in his favour. There were also protests from the BJP side.

But our Cabinet felt that since it had been returned by the President, the only option was to send it back to him again if we felt so strongly about it. Sir, there was some difference of opinion amongst us also. I do not think that Shri Advani will deny it now that he did later on, should I say, congratulated me for the stand I had taken. Some other Members of the BJP here in the Parliament also came to me and said that I had taken a very bold and honest stand. But Sir, my friend Shri Mulayam Singh was very angry with me. He made no bones about it. He said " BäºÉÉ ¨ÉÉèEòÉ +ÉªÉÉ ½þè, +É{ÉxÉä ¨ÉÉèEòÉ UôÉäc÷ ÊnùªÉÉ* Eò±ªÉÉhÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä JÉi¨É Eò®úxÉä EòÉ ªÉ½þÒ ¨ÉÉèEòÉ lÉÉ*"

Anyway, I do not know whether I was right or wrong, but such situations arise. ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ ªÉÉnù´É (ºÉ¨¦É±É): ªÉä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ +É{ÉEòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ lÉÒÆ iÉÉä ½þ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ EòÖUô Eò½þxÉÉ {Éc÷äMÉÉ* ¸ÉÒ <xpùVÉÒiÉ MÉÖ{iÉ : +É{ÉEòÉä Eò½þxÉä ºÉä EòÉèxÉ ®úÉäEòäMÉÉ?

So, we did not apply Article 356 in that case. Though the U.P. Government was a BJP Government and though many of us would not have shed any tears if that Government had been removed, but we withheld ourselves, we did not exercise that power. You can exercise it at any time you want if you do not have any degree of political wisdom and political neutrality and if you are interested in the politics of the parties involved or what is going to be the outcome as far as the Centre-State relations are concerned, but that is a dangerous thing.

So, Sir, in the present case, there have been, of course, all kinds of crimes committed in Bihar and I am not talking about the other side of this, the alleged defalcation of money and the Central funds being diverted. This is going on in some other States also. I can quote some North-Eastern States where people complain to us bitterly that so much money which is being sanctioned by the Centre for development work, for construction work in those States is not being spent for that at all. That is going into the pockets of some other people. Some Ministers, some contractors and some bureaucrats are pocketing this money. This is going on. Maybe in Bihar also, such things happen. I am quite sure that they happen there.

Now, what is the way out? Is the way out to impose President's rule and take over the Government of that State? Another set of people will come there who will be equally interested in lining their pockets. That is all that will happen. I regret to say but that has become the condition of our society now. Whoever can make money by fair means or foul means cannot resist the temptation to make money. This is what is gong on in the country. Let us be frank about it because we are now thinking in terms of changing of governments. Maybe, this Government will go, some other Government will come. Maybe, one Prime Minister will go, another Prime Minister will come. But what about these problems which are not the problems of a party but which are the problems of the country as a whole? Who can come before the people with some policy, some programme on which they are prepared to rule and act and see that these things are not allowed to go on? Nobody speaks about programmes. They speak about personalities. That is all right. They can compare Atalji with Soniaji and somebody else with somebody else, but I do not feel convinced by these things at all. What is going to be their economic programme? What are they going to do about it? Are they going to bring down prices?

15.00 hrs. The moment the new Government comes, will they be able to control prices and bring them down? Will they be able to control unemployment? Huge monsters of inflation and unemployment are stalking the country and nobody is prepared to put forward any concrete programme except talking in terms of money _ "we will give so many crores for this and that" - but nothing happens on the ground. So, Sir, I will say that in the present case, this resort to article 356 in the case of Bihar is clearly politically motivated by the BJP at the Centre. All this talk that it has nothing to do with people's interests, it has nothing to do with the interests of the poor and all that which is being talked about, in my opinion, is all hypocrisy and deception. Therefore, we cannot support such a thing because it means fooling the people. We have to oppose it and we do not wish to have again a Government there under this kind of a palpably political and partisan governance which itself is a contradiction. In terms of Sarkaria Commission, they have no business to be there but they are being used. Therefore, we oppose this proclamation and we hope the Parliament will reject it.

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(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ nùä´É®úÉVÉ¦ÉÉ<Ç ÊSÉJÉÊ±ÉªÉÉ (VÉÚxÉÉMÉgø) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ, MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ §ÉÉ¨ÉEò ºÉÚSÉxÉÉ nùäEò®ú ºÉnùxÉ EòÉä MÉÖ¨É®úÉ½þ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ EòÉ¨É Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Order please. ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ EònùÇ¨É nù´Éä (ºÉÖ®úäxpùxÉMÉ®ú): ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉ½þ VÉÒ, ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ MÉ±ÉiÉ ¤ÉªÉÉxÉÒ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* <ºÉÉ<ªÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ ¨ÉäÆ EòÖUô xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÖ+É* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not interrupt. ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ VÉªÉÉ¤É½þxÉ ¦É®úiÉEòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú `öEEò®ú (´Éb÷Éänù®úÉ): ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, <x½þÉäÆxÉä +{ÉxÉä nùä¶É EòÉä ºÉÉ®úä Ê´É¶´É ¨ÉäÆ BäºÉÉ Eò½þ-Eò½þ Eò®ú ¤ÉnùxÉÉ¨É Eò®úxÉä EòÉ EòÉ¨É ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please resume your seats. Do not interrupt. ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ nùä´É®úÉVÉ¦ÉÉ<Ç ÊSÉJÉÊ±ÉªÉÉ : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÒ ½þÚÆ ÊEò VÉÉä ¤ÉÉiÉ ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ Eò½þ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, =ºÉEòÒ ºÉÒ.¤ÉÒ.+É<Ç. ºÉä VÉÉÆSÉ Eò®úÉ<Ç VÉÉB iÉ¤É +É{ÉEòä ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉä ºÉ½þÒ ÊºlÉÊiÉ +ÉBMÉÒ* ªÉä nùä¶É EòÉä MÉÖ¨É®úÉ½þ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ EòÉ¨É Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The Home Minister will reply. ¸ÉÒ ®úÒiÉ±ÉÉ±É |ÉºÉÉnù ´É¨ÉÉÇ (EòÉäb÷®ú¨ÉÉ): ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ +xÉMÉÇ±É ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ÊVÉºÉEòÉ EòÉä<Ç +ÉvÉÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* <xÉEòÉä +{ÉxÉä nùä¶É ºÉä Ê¤É±ÉEòÖ±É |Éä¨É xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè ªÉä +{ÉxÉä nùä¶É EòÒ UôÊ´É Ê´Énùä¶ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ JÉ®úÉ¤É Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not stand up and interrupt like this. ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ ªÉÉnù´É : =c÷ÒºÉÉ EòÉ ¦ÉÒ ±ÉÚÆMÉÉ* ¨ÉÉxªÉ´É®ú, ¨ÉÉxÉÊºÉEòiÉÉ nùäÊJÉB* <ºÉÒÊ±ÉB iÉÉä ¨ÉèÆ Eò½þ ®ú½þÉ lÉÉ ÊEò ºÉ¤ÉxÉä MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ EòÉ xÉÉ¨É Ê±ÉªÉÉ, ¤É¨¤É<Ç, ¨É½þÉ®úÉ¹]Å EòÉ xÉÉ¨É Ê±ÉªÉÉ, ºÉ¤ÉxÉä Ênù±±ÉÒ EòÉ xÉÉ¨É Ê±ÉªÉÉ, Ê´ÉnùäÊ¶ÉªÉÉäÆ xÉä ¦ÉÒ Ê±ÉªÉÉ, +¨É®úÒEòÉ xÉä ¦ÉÒ Ê±ÉªÉÉ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ EòÖUô xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÖ+É* +MÉ®ú ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ EòÉ xÉÉ¨É ±Éä nùä, iÉÉä ÊEòiÉxÉÒ iÉEò±ÉÒ¡ò <xÉEòÉä ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þè* EòÖUô ±ÉÉäMÉ ºÉ¨ÉZÉiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ =xÉEòÒ ¤É{ÉÉèiÉÒ ½þè* ªÉ½þ MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ ¦ÉÒ <ºÉÒ nùä¶É EòÉ Ê½þººÉÉ ½þè, <ºÉÒ nùä¶É EòÒ Ê¨É^Ò ½þè* ÊVÉiÉxÉÉ MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ +É{ÉEòÉ ºÉÆ¤ÉÆvÉ ½þè =iÉxÉÉ ½þÒ ¨Éä®úÉ ¦ÉÒ ºÉÆ¤ÉÆvÉ ½þè* <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ªÉÚ.{ÉÒ. ªÉÉ MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ EòÉ ºÉ´ÉÉ±É xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) श्रीमती भावना देवराजभाई चिखलिया : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मुलायम सिंह जी, इस देश की छवि को पूरी दुनिया में खराब करने का काम कर रहे हैं।

... (व्यवधान) श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव (सम्भल): उपाध्यक्ष जी, मैं कहना चाहता हूं जहां तक गुजरात का सवाल है, बम्बई का सवाल है, कई बार कहा जा चुका है कि बम्बई जैसी खतरनाक स्िथति हिन्दुस्तान के किसी भी प्रदेश में नहीं है। वहां केवल उद्योगपतियों को ही नहीं निकाला गया है बल्िक वहां ऐसी खतरनाक स्िथति है जैसा मैंने कहा कि देश की मिट्टी एक है, लेकिन वहां इस बात को नहीं माना जाता बल्िक वहां भेदभाव किया जा रहा है कि कौन पश्िचम बंगाल का है, कौन गुजरात का है, कौन तमिलनाडु का है, कौन उत्तर प्रदेश का है और कौन बिहारी है। इस आधार पर भेदभाव किया जा रहा है और उन्हें वहां से निकाला जा रहा है। श्री मोहन रावले (मुम्बई दक्षिण-मध्य) : यह गलत बोल रहे हैं.

... (व्यवधान) किसको निकाला जा रहा है, आप एक का भी नाम बता दीजिए।

... (व्यवधान) श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : एक नहीं अनेक का नाम बता देंगे।

... (व्यवधान) श्री मोहन रावले : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, यह हमको गुमराह कर रहे हैं।

... (व्यवधान)यह सदन को गुमराह कर रहे हैं।

... (व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: While replying, the Home Minister will refute it. श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, बाम्बे में फिल्म उद्योग के लोग भाग रहे हैं, उद्योगपति भाग रहे हैं। वहां शादी-विवाह के लिए अच्छे लड़के होते हुए भी उनसे शादी करने के लिए कोई तैयार नहीं होता है । ऐसी वहां की स्िथति है।

... (व्यवधान)वहां बहुत गंभीर स्िथति है। जिस बाम्बे ने खेल के मैदान को उखाड़कर रख दिया और उसके बाद कहा कि पाकिस्तान का कोई भी खिलाड़ी बाम्बे में नहीं आ सकता। उसने दिल्ली में भी चुनौती दे दी। यहां दिल्ली की पुलिस किसके हाथ में थी? दिल्ली का शासन किसके हाथ में था, केन्द्र सरकार के हाथ में था जिसके ग्ृाह मंत्री श्री लाल कृष्ण आडवाणी जी हैं। यह बाम्बे की स्िथति है। कैसे-कैसे उदाहरण दिये जाते हैं। मैं एक उदाहरण देना चाहता हूं कि अगर कोई व्यकित छोटी मोटी फियेट या मारूति कार लेता है और उन्हें पता चल जाता है तो शाम को ही उनके घर टेलीफोन आ जाता है कि तुम मारूति कार तो ले आये लेकिन हमारा कमीशन नहीं दिया। हमें २०-२५ हजार रुपये भेज दीजिए--यह सच्चाई है। यह बाम्बे की खतरनाक स्िथति है। अब मैं उत्तर प्रदेश और दिल्ली के बारे में कहना चाहता हूं। उत्तर प्रदेश के बारे में मैं थोड़े में लखनऊ की दो बातें ही बताना चाहता हूं। वैसे तो बातें बहुत सी हैं लेकिन मैं ज्यादा नहीं बताना चाहता। लखनऊ के बारे में मैं इसलिए बताना चाहता हूं कयोंकि प्रधान मंत्री जी वहां से लोकसभा के सदस्य हैं, वहां के प्रतनधि हैं। आपको लखनऊ से लगाव है और लखनऊ के लगाव की वजह से हमने बड़े उपाय किये तो २ लाख ७७ हजार वोट तक ही हम पहुंचे, आगे नहीं पहुंच पाये। आपको लखनऊ इतना पसंद करता है, वहां आपका इतना सम्मान है, इज्जत है इसलिए हम लखनऊ की चर्चा करना चाहते हैं। हम केवल जनवरी महीने के बारे में ही बताना चाहते हैं। वैसे तो बताने को और भी बातें हैं लेकिन हमें रिपोर्ट मिली है, सरकार वह रिपोर्ट कैसे दे सकती है लेकिन हमने पता चला लिया है कि अकेले लखनऊ शहर में एक जनवरी से लेकर ३१ जनवरी तक ३२ हत्यायें हुई हैं। मैं केवल लखनऊ की बात कर रहा हूं।

... (व्यवधान)यह ३२ हत्यायें तो अलग हैं। इसके अलावा और भी बहुत सी हत्यायें हुई हैं। अगर माननीय प्रधान मंत्री जी, ग्ृाह मंत्री जी हमें समय दे तो मैं बता सकता हूं। मेरी बोलने की इच्छा तो बहुत है लेकिन समय कम है और बहुतों को बोलना है, वोट भी देना है। इसलिए मैं थोड़ा ही बता रहा हूं कि पूरे सूबे में २१ सितम्बर, १९९७ से लेकर पिछले महीने तक २०४ हत्यायें हुई हैं। ये २०४ हत्यायें केवल समाजवादी पार्टी के नेता और कार्यकर्ताओं की हैं। मेरे पास जिलेवार सूची भी है और नामवार सूची भी है। आज आपकी किताब छपते हुए देखा तो मैंने कहा कि मैं भी सीखूं। मैं आपको लखनऊ के ज्यादा नहीं केवल दो-चार नाम ही बता देता हूं कयोंकि यह बताना जरूरी है। अगर प्रधान मंत्री जी समय दे देंगे तो मैं इसे पेश कर दूंगा। अगर नहीं देंगे तो राष्ट्रपति के पास सारे सांसदों को लेकर चाहे इधर के हों या उधर के हों, जाना ही है। जो २०४ हत्यायें हुई हैं उनमें से एक हैं समाजवादी पार्टी के सक़िय मैम्बर और कमेटी सदस्य रमेश धोबी जाति, ग्राम प्रधान, पहाड़ीगढ़ी, थाना राट, जिला हमीरपुर। यह बहुत लम्बी लिस्ट है। श्री अशोक प्रधान (खुर्जा) : आप जिसका जिक़ कर रहे हैं, वे आपस के गैंग हैं।

... (व्यवधान) श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : ये भी हैं। यदि ग्ृाह मंत्री जी और प्रधानमंत्री जी कह दें कि आपकी रिपोर्ट गलत है तो मैं प्रैस कौन्फ्रैंस करके उसी दिन स्वीकार कर लूंगा कि मैंने गलती की है। यदि सही है तो मैं आपको दूंगा। मैं ज्यादा नाम नहीं पढ़ रहा हूं कयोंकि इनको परेशानी होगी।

... (व्यवधान)इसी तरह पूर्व बिल्हौर अध्यक्ष व ब्लॉक प्रमुख और ब्लॉक अध्यक्ष कुन्डा, प्रतापगढ़, नाम जगन्नाथ यादव भी हैं। समाजवादी पार्टी युवजन समाज के महामंत्री हैं, यूथ्स का जो मुख्य संगठन है उसी तरह समाजवादी युवा सभा है, उसमें पुराने हम भी हैं, समाजवादी युवजन सभा के महासचिव श्री लालता पासवान, निवासी कुठली, थाना हथगांव, जिला फतहपुर हैं।

... (व्यवधान) श्री श्याम बिहारी मिश्र (बिल्हौर) : जब इनकी सरकार थी तब व्यापारियों के अपहरण हो रहे थे।

... (व्यवधान) श्री तेजवीर सिंह (मथुरा): मेरे मथुरा में इन्होंने कार्यालय खुलवाया। ... (व्यवधान) उपाध्यक्ष महोदय : जो भी आपत्ितजनक बात आएगी, उसके खिलाफ तो सरकार बोलेगी। ... (व्यवधान) श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : १९९८ के लोक सभा चुनाव में नैनीताल से समाजवादी पार्टी के उम्मीदवार श्री अब्दुल रऊद सिद्दीकी, जिला नैनीताल और हमारे युवजन सभा के अध्यक्ष की हत्या कर दी गई। हत्या करने वाले की पूरे हिन्दुस्तान के अखबारों में तस्वीर है। उत्तर प्रदेश के महामहिम राज्यपाल जी जब हवाई अड्डे पर उतरे तो उनको रिसीव करने वाले तीन ही लोग थे जिसमें मुख्य मंत्री जी, मुख्य मंत्री जी के एक साथी और श्री अब्दुल रऊद सिद्दीकी, अध्यक्ष के कातिल। यदि यह बात गलत साबित हो जाती है तो मैं लोक सभा से इस्तीफा दे दूंगा। सारे हिन्दुस्तान के अखबारों में है।

... (व्यवधान)कया आप इस तरह से अंदाजा लगाकर बोलेंगे, आपका फतेहपुर से कया रिश्ता, कहां चिल्लाने लगे? कया इनको पता है कि ब्लॉक कहां है। ... (व्यवधान) श्री अशोक प्रधान : उस पर इन्कवारी हुई है, जांच हुई है और उसे सजा हुई है।

... (व्यवधान) श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : उसी तरह जौनपुर जिला पंचायत के सदस्य और लोहिया वाहिनी के महामंत्री की हत्या हुई। अब नाम खुलवाएंगे कि कौन करवाने वाला है। मैं विधान सभा में भूतपूर्व प्रत्याशी का संरक्षण चाहूंगा। इसी तरह सीसपाल सिंह, लोहिया वाहिनी का ब्लॉक अध्यक्ष,ग्राम हैदरपुर, जिला जालौन हैं। मैं श्री ब्रहमदत द्विवेदी की हत्या करने वालों के नाम ले दूंगा। रमेश यादव, ब्लॉक प्रमुख, ईसरपुर की हत्या की गई।

... (व्यवधान)अकबरपुर, कानपुर देहात जिला की मेरे पास बहुत बड़ी सूची है, ये सुनना नहीं चाहते। ऐसे उम्मीदवार जिनके बारे में मैंने कहा कि गवर्नर साहब को रिसीव करने गए, शोर मचा और अखबारों में छपा, हमारी नहीं सुनी गई, फिर उसको जेल भेजा गया। वह गवर्नर साहब को रिसीव करने जाता है, हत्या करने के कम से कम १५-२० दिन बाद जेल में भेजने के बाद सारे समाचार-पत्रों में छप गया, राज्यपाल जी ने कहा कि ऐसी बात है। मैं राज्यपाल जी को धन्यवाद देता हूं, उन्होंने सोचा कि मेरे कदम रखते ही आप लोगों ने ऐसे आदमियों से रिसीव करवाया, तब उसकी गिरफतारी हुई है। इसके लिए मैं उत्तर प्रदेश के राज्यपाल जी को धन्यवाद देता हूं। यह उत्तर प्रदेश का हाल है। अब आगे लखनऊ में चलिये, जहां ३२ हत्याएं हुई थीं। १० नवम्बर को दिन-दहाड़े निशातगंज के भीड़ भरे इलाके में जगन्नाथ पटेल नाम के एक कांस्टेबल की हत्या कर दी गई और हत्यारे उसकी कारबाइन ले गये। अब मुझे एक ही आखिरी बात कहनी है। यह तो आपने कहा, इसलिए मैंने बता दिया। यह मैंने उत्तर प्रदेश का थोड़ा सा ही नमूना दिया है। इसकी फाइल तो मैं आपको दूंगा। मैं प्रैस करके कहना चाहता हूं कि इनकी बात सच्ची है तो फिर हम अपना खेद व्यकत करेंगे कि मैंने आपको गलत रिपोर्ट दी है, वरना इनका आप कया करेंगे?

... (व्यवधान)इसीलिए तो मैंने कहा कि मैं तो कभी उदार हो जाता हूं, आप तो हमेशा कठोर, कट्टरवादी ही रहेंगे। इसलिए आपको बदलना होगा, वरना आपका भी कुछ हो जाता, लेकिन अब नहीं होगा। आप इधर से उधर करने वाले थे, वह नहीं हो पाएगा। इसी तरह से चार फरवरी को राजभवन के सामने और पूरे उत्तर प्रदेश के आई.पी.एस. अधिकारी ... (व्यवधान) श्री अशोक प्रधान : माननीय उपाध्यक्ष जी, मुझे भी बोलने का पूरा मौका मिलना चाहिए, पूरी लिस्ट देने का मौका मिलना चाहिए, जो इनके समय में हुआ, उसको रखने का हमें भी मौका मिलना चाहिए। इनके शासन काल के समय के केस हम भी रखेंगे। उस समय समय न देखा जाये, हमें भी पूरा मौका दिया जाना चाहिए।

... (व्यवधान) श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : टोका-टाकी की एक सीमा होती है। अगर आपकी मानसिकता ही यह है, इरादा ही यह है तो फिर लालू जी की बात पर हम आ ही जाएंगे। सीधी बात है। चार फरवरी को शाम के आठ बजे गवर्नर हाउस के ठीक गेट के सामने, जब सारे उत्तर प्रदेश के आई.पी.एस., डी.जी.(पी.), मुख्य मंत्री, गवर्नर साहब, आई.ए.एस., बड़े अधिकारी, मुख्य सचिव, ग्ृाह सचिव सब खाना खा रहे थे, उसी वकत जेल अधीक्षक, लखनऊ सर्िकल श्री आर.के. तिवारी की हत्या कर दी गई।

... (व्यवधान) यह बिहार पर ही तो है कि कयों सरकार बर्खास्त की गई है, इसीलिए मैं कह रहा हूं।

... (व्यवधान)हम इससे ज्यादा नहीं बोल रहे होंगे, आप बैठे रहिये। हम बताएंगे, तब जाकर खबर कर लेना। २३ फरवरी को पौने दस बजे, यह मैं अभी-अभी की बातें कर रहा हूं, बहुत दिन की नहीं, यह तो मैं थोड़ा सा नमूना दे रहा हूं। सिकन्दर बाग में डी.जी.(पी.) के निवास स्थान के ठीक सामने, वहां से १५०-१७५ मीटर है, नाप लेना, करचन लाल यादव की हत्या हुई, जहां से मैं एम.एल.ए. होकर शिकोहाबाद में मुख्य मंत्री बना था। श्री विजय गोयल (चांदनी चौक): यह बिहार पर बहस है, यह कब तक इस तरह से चलेगा। श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : बिहार बर्खास्त कर लो, अब सुना नहीं जा रहा है। गोयल जी, हम नहीं टोकते। उसकी कारबाइन ले गये। इसी तरह से उत्तर प्रदेश विधान सभा में, अभी चन्द्रशेखर जी ने जो बताया, कानून व्यवस्था पर बहस चल रही थी और २४ फरवरी को गेट नम्बर नौ पर एक रिकशा वाला, जिसका नाम मौहम्मद बेग है और एक पशुपालन विभाग का कर्मचारी है, दोनों पर गोली चला दी। रिकशा वाले की मौत हो गई और दूसरा आदमी गम्भीर रूप से घायल है। वह मौत से जूझ रहा है। उत्तर प्रदेश की विधान सभा के गेट नम्बर नौ पर २४ फरवरी को यह घटना हुई। इसी तरह फरीदपुर थाने के अन्दर दो कांस्टेबल, जिनमें से एक परसों मारा गया है, एक होटल पर घायल हुआ। यह नमूने के तौर पर मैंने दिया। मेरे पास बहुत सी घटनाएं हैं, आप पढ़ें तो। इसके ऊपर अभी तक कया कार्रवाई हुई, सिर्फ मैं यह जानना चाहता हूं। मैं यह कहना चाहता हूं कि चलिये, हत्याएं हो गईं, लेकिन उसके बाद भी ग्ृाह मंत्री जी कुछ नहीं हुआ। पुलिस के हथियार भी चले गये, नौ नम्बर गेट पर लोग मरे और पूरे उत्तर प्रदेश के वरिष्ठ अधिकारी, मुख्य मंत्री, राज्यपाल, जहां आई.पी.एस. वीक मनाया जा रहा था। उस समय सारे अधिकारियों के सामने पुलिस अधीक्षक श्री आर.के. तिवारी की हत्या कर दी गई। उस पर कया कार्रवाई हुई, कया कोई गिरफतारी हुई, कया कार्बाइन मिलीं, यह मैं ग्ृाह मंत्री जी से पूछना चाहता हूं? आप कहते हैं बिहार-बिहार, पहले आप उत्तर प्रदेश को तो देखो और उससे भी पहले लखनऊ को देखो। मैं एक और निवेदन करना चाहता हूं। अब मैं आपको दिल्ली की तरफ ले चलता हूं। दिल्ली में हालत इतनी खराब है कि पूरे हिन्दुस्तान में इतनी खराब कहीं नहीं है। दिल्ली की पुलिस की बागडोर ग्ृाह मंत्री जी के हाथ में है। यहां पर पुलिस, पैरा मलिटरी फोर्स सब लगी हुई हैं, हम कहेंगे कि आप बिहार और दिल्ली की ही तुलना कर लो। दिल्ली की आबादी ८० लाख से एक करोड़ के करीब है और बिहार की आबादी नौ-दस करोड़ के करीब है। वहां इनका नौ साल से राज है। आप सदन की एक कमेटी बना दें, प्रधान मंत्री जी और ग्ृाह मंत्री जी दोनों बैठकर इसकी तुलना करें और देखें कि कहां हालत ज्यादा खराब है। बिहार में राबड़ी देवी ने कई बार पैरा मलिटरी फोर्स की मांग की, लेकिन आपने नहीं दी। अब वहां राष्ट्रपति शासन हुआ तो रेलगाड़ियों में भर-भरकर और जहाजों से वहां फोर्स उतार दी। वहां की जनता यह पहली बार देख रही है। उन्होंने आंदोलन किया तो लोगों को कुचल दिया गया। उत्तर प्रदेश की जनता तो इसको कई बार देख चुकी है। मैं समझता हूं बिहार की जनता भी अपने हितों की रक्षा के लिए एक दिन सड़कों पर आएगी। मुजफफरनगर में एक प्रतष्िठत डाकटर का अपहरण हो गया, हरिद्वार और अन्य जगहों से व्यापारियों का अपहरण कर लिया गया। ये लोग अभी तक अपने घरों को नहीं लौटे हैं। हमने तो इनके नियंत्रण का, शासन का नमूना देख लिया है। आप दिल्ली की तुलना कर लो कि कितनी हत्याएं हुईं और कितने अपहरण हुए। आई.एस.आई. दिल्ली में कितनी सक़िय है और बिहार में कितनी सक़िय है, इसकी तुलना करके आप देख लें। अगर बिहार में ज्यादा लगे तो हम अभी वहां धारा ३५६ की बात को छोड़ देंगे। अगर ऐसा नहीं है तो सबसे पहले ग्ृाह मंत्री जी आपको इस्तीफा देना चाहिए। दिल्ली की सरकार, यानी केन्द्र सरकार, जिसके प्रधान मंत्री माननीय अटल जी हैं और ग्ृाह मंत्री जी आप हैं, यह सरकार जानी चाहिए।

... (व्यवधान)हमारे दिमाग में दिल्ली के मायने अटल जी और आडवाणी जी की सरकार से हैं। आप इन दोनों राज्यों की तुलना स्वीकार कर लें, सच्चाई सामने आ जाएगी, तो जरा भी नैतिकता है तो ग्ृाह मंत्री जी इस्तीफा दे दें। यह नहीं कि जब आप चाहें धारा ३५६ लगा दें। उपाध्यक्ष महोदय: अब समाप्त करें। श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : आप मुलायम सिंह को रोकना चाहेंगे तो फिर कौन बोलेगा। इनकी कलई हमारे सिवा और कौन खोल सकता है। मेरा अधिकांश समय तो टोका-टाकी में चला गया। जहां तक अर्थव्यवस्था का सवाल है, उत्तर प्रदेश पर ६० हजार करोड़ रुपए का कर्ज है, तो कया उसको भी बर्खास्त करोगे? इस तरह देखा जाए तो अर्थव्यवस्था में भी बिहार पीछे है, अफसरों की हत्याओं में, पुलिस अधिकारियों की हत्याओं में और जनता की हत्याओं में भी बिहार पीछे है। उत्तर प्रदेश में जिस तरह से पुलिस हत्याएं कर रही है, उपाध्यक्ष जी, अगर आप मौके पर जाएं भदौही और मुजफफरनगर यहां से दूर नहीं हैं। केवल दो जगह हैं। चारों लड़के अपनी पत्िनयों को संभालने गए थे। लड़का दोस्तों को लेकर मुजफफरपुर गया था, वहां लड़कों की हत्या कर दी और इंस्पेकटर के खिलाफ कोई कार्रवाई नहीं हुई बल्िक उसे अच्छी कोतवाली दे दी गई। वहां पर सब दीपावली मना रहे थे।

... (व्यवधान) श्री वीरेन्द्र सिंह : उपाध्यक्ष महोदय, मैं कुछ कहना चाहता हूं। ... (व्यवधान) श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : वीरेन्द्र आप छोड़िए। हमारी आपकी बात है, बाद में कर लेंगे। श्री वीरेन्द्र सिंह : यह बात मेरे संसदीय क्षेत्र की है, इसलिए मैं कह रहा हूं। सारे दंडित हुए हैं।

... (व्यवधान)मुख्य मंत्री जी ने सब लोगों को दंडित किया है।

... (व्यवधान)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Virendra Singh, he is not yielding. Please take your seat. श्री मुलायम सिंह यादव : बीस दिन पहले समाजवादी पार्टी का उन्हें अध्यक्ष चुना गया था और दीपावली के दिन उनकी हत्या कर दी गई। अब सवाल यह है कि बिहार में स्िथति कैसे खराब हुई? यह बुनियाद कहां से खड़ी हुई? मार्कसवादी कम्युनिस्ट पार्टी के कौन से नेता उत्तर प्रदेश गए? आपको नाम कया बताएं? हम नाम जानते हैं और दूसरा जो पकड़ा गया है, किसके घर पर पकड़ा गया है, यह ग्ृाह मंत्री जी जानें, यह मैं उन पर छोड़ता हूं। उत्तर प्रदेश में विधान परिषद में अफसरों की पिटाई होती है। यू.पी. में एक विधान परिषद के सदस्य के भाई बिहार में पूरे माफिया के नाम पर कत्लेआम कराने का काम कर रहे हैं। यू.पी. के प्रकाश शुकला और राजन तिवारी कया पकड़े गए हैं? जो गाजियाबाद का इंस्पेकटर मारा गया, उसने बाकायदा नाम लिए हैं। कया कार्रवाई हुई है? कया इस पर ग्ृाह मंत्री जी कार्रवाई करेंगे? अखबारों में नाम पता आ गए हैं। आपने सी.बी.आई. को बुलाकर कया कहा? सी.बी.आई.के सामने यह मामला आ गया है। एक जगह बिहार में छापे मारे जा रहे हैं। दूसरी जगह, तीसरी जगह कया कर रहे हैं, बता दें। सारी की सारी हत्याएं करने वाले यू.पी. से भेजे जा रहे हैं। अफसरों को मारने वाले कौन हैं? अफसरों को कौन पीट रहा है? अब कया कहें? आप कह देंगे कि मुलायम सिंह के लोग हैं। कया करें।

प्रतापगढ़ के आई.ए.एस. को पीटने वाला भारतीय जनता पार्टी का विधायक था और जब उसने शिकायत की तो उसी के खिलाफ रपट लिखाई गई और फिर उसका ट्रांसफर कर दिया गया। हाथरस के एस.पी. को मारने वाला भारतीय जनता पार्टी का उम्मीदवार था और जब उसने शिकायत की तो उसे एस.पी. ने भी छेड़ा तो उसका भी ट्रांसफर कर दिया गया। गोंडा के बी.डी.ओ. और दो अधिकारियों को पीटने वाला भारतीय जनता पार्टी का विधायक था। इटावा के डी.एस.ओ. को पीटने वाला राज्य मंत्री था। कह दीजिए कि गलत बोल रहे हैं। राय बरेली में एक अधिकारी को मारने वाला एक स्टेट मनिस्टर था और आज यह हालत है कि चीफ सैक़ेटरी और मुख्य मंत्री दोनों ने स्वीकार किया कि हमारे मंत्री मंडल के अलावा इन लोगों का साथ देने वाले करीब आधे दर्जन ऐसे मंत्री हैं, उनके खिलाफ जांच करा रहा हूं। कुछ मंत्रियों की जांच रिपोर्ट आ गई है। अभी तक किसी के खिलाफ कोई भी कार्रवाई नहीं हुई है। आप बिहार से तुलना करते हैं? ब्रहमदत्त तिवारी जैसे नेताओं की हत्या कर दी गई और फिर इधर-उधर चुपचाप लोक सभा में मामला दबा दिया जाए और आप बिहार की बात करते हैं? अधिकारियों को मारना, नेताओं को नहीं छोड़ना, हमारे साथियों को नहीं छोड़ना, हत्याएं करना आदि ये सब काम हैं। जेल में तो कितने हैं, ९८००० तो बहुत पहले हो गए थे। हम कहना चाहते हैं कि आपके इन सारे आधारों का कोई मतलब नहीं है। थोड़ी आशंका जरूर व्याप्त हो गई है जब संविधान निर्माताओं ने यह कहा था कि केन्द्र में और राज्यों में अलग-अलग सरकारें अलग-अलग पार्टी की होंगी, उस वकत इसका दुरुपयोग हो सकता है और यह आपने साबित कर दिया।

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... (Interruptions)

DR. SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY (MADURAI): Sir, kindly inform us at what time there will be voting today. ... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Still there are more than 30 speakers in the list. ...(Interruptions)

DR. SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY : But there should be some time fixed for it. ...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I do not know when we are going to complete this discussion.

DR. SUBRAMANIAN SWAMY : Will it be before dinner or after dinner?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: That again depends on how lengthy each speech would be.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI R. MUTHIAH (PERIYAKULAM): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, while I am rising here to support the Resolution on behalf of our Party, AIADMK, I have to mention that we are feeling sorry because the Government concerned in this case is headed by a Party whose leader, Shri Laluji is upholding the pathway of our Dravidian Movements great mentor, E.V.Ra. Periyar in the Northern States too. ...(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: There is a lot of noise in the House. Those Members who want to go to the Lobby may please go out quietly.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : Sir, he had taken all the steps to uphold the social justice in that State. But even after all those things, we are unable to support his stance because of the recent incidents in the State of Bihar particularly after the massacre of dalits in that State.

Sir, not only, we, the AIADMK or the parties supporting the Government condemn the incident but also even the main Opposition, the Congress-I Party was of the view that after the mass killings in Bihar, the Government at Bihar has no moral right even to sit in the Office for a moment. After condemning it like this, if that Party is not coming forward to support when the Central Government is taking some action in this regard, is it not a betrayal on their part? They have to tell us.

We are not a party of betraying anybody at any point of time. That is why, we are coming forward to support this Resolution at this juncture. when all the political parties have condemned that incident, in such a situation is it not the duty of the Government at the Centre to take some action? Can a Government at the Centre be a silent spectator at this juncture? That is why, this Government has acted, promulgated the President's Rule in Bihar and came forward before this House for the ratification of the promulgation of the President's Rule in Bihar.

After hearing Shri Laluji's argument yesterday, I even thought why he is not taking a moral responsibility for those incidents and he has not asked his Government to step down and face a fresh election in that State.

Not only Lalu Prasad, there were many eminent speakers before me including Shri Somnath Chatterjee and Shri Indrajit Gupta who had gone in depth in discussing the bona fide of the Article 356 and its misuse on so many occasions. We are also not in favour of Article 356 being misused at any point of time. Of course, we are also victims of Article 356 and its misuse against our leader, the great MGR in 1980. Even in those days when the proclamation came before the Parliament during March, 1980, there were so many leaders who have criticised the action of the then Government for misusing Article 356 in nine States and particularly against that of MGR's Government. 16.16 Hrs (Shri Raghuvansh Prasad Singh in the Chair) But Shri Somnath Chatterjee and Shri Advani have spoken in those days against the misuse of Article 356.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Please remind him.

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : I am coming to that point. But defending that action of the then Government, Shri Murasoli Maran, the Leader of the DMK Group, now had been there in the Rajya Sabha in those days, had spoken in Rajya Sabha on 23rd March, 1980. What had he spoken? You Mr Somnathjee had spoken against the imposition of President's Rule in Tamil Nadu. Your friend, Shri Maran had said in the Rajya Sabha and described you, when you had opposed the imposition of President's Rule in nine States and particularly against MGR's Government in Tamil Nadu, as shedding crocodile tears. This is what your friend Shri Maran had told in those days against you Shri Somnath Chatterjee. Even now you have opposed this move. I would like to know whether he is going to say that you are shedding crocodile tears even now. In those days he had said that you were shedding crocodile tears. Moreover, he had told that our Constitution is not federal in character. We have all along been emphasising that the entire Constitution should be redrafted to suit the federal character. Up to that time, this Article 356 shall be there and it shall be used against States in future also. This is what Shri Maran, my brother, told the other House in those days. He had told that you had been shedding crocodile tears. Even, now, you have spoken against this move.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : He was wrong then, you are wrong now.

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : Even now is he going to say so? That is what I am asking. (Interruptions). He had told the other House in those days that the Constitution has not been redrafted and Article 356 is there. Since, at this juncture, there is no other go for this Government,as all the political parties have condemned the incidents of Bihar. They have come forward by using Article 356 and restoring law and order there in Bihar. As long as Article 356 is there, it has to be used, but it should not be misused as they have done in 1980 against MGR.

They did it without even giving any reason in those days. But in my view and in the view of my party, the most deserving State and the most fittest state, for the imposition of the President's rule is the State of Tamil Nadu rather than Bihar.

The situation in Tamil Nadu is more worsening than in the State of Bihar. I can quote so many instances about the State of Tamil Nadu comparing the Report of the Governor of Bihar,itself.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : You have a very strong case because you have l8 votes.

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : I can quote so many incidents comparing the report of the Governor of Bihar itself. In his report, he has mentioned so many things.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude.

(Interruptions)

discrimination.

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : Shri Somnath Chatterjee has already told this House yesterday.

MR. CHAIRMAN: In view of the long list please be brief.

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : We have to tell them about our case. We are not pressuring or threatning this Government. On a democratic basis we are demanding the Central Government to dismiss the most inefficient State Government, of Tamil Nadu. For that I have to quote some instances. The report of the Governor of Bihar has classified them into different headlines. In those headlines some are, extremist violence, killings of political officials -- that is, political killings -- ISI activities, financial losses, killing of traders and businessmen, rape and molestation of fair sex, carnage and mass killings.

In the Second Report he had classified his report into the headlines of large scale breakdown of law and order. Kidnapping for ransom, dacoity of banks, political killings, uncontrolled extremist activities -- all have been mentioned.

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : Next come governance by proxy and abuse of power. The phrase, "Governance by proxy" can be utilised in none other State of this country than in the State of Tamil Nadu. I am referring even to the Leader of the DMK party here. I am not sparing even the Leader of DMK Party here. He is spending most of his time there in Tamil Nadu. (Interruptions)

He is attending all the high level meetings there in the Secretariat.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please conclude.

SHRI R. MUTHIAH: There are so many instances and I am having records with me. All these phrases can be applied to the happenings and incidents in Tamil Nadu. The proxy governance can well be defined only in Tamil Nadu rather than in Bihar.

The poor Shri Lalu Prasad, after he had stepped down from the Chief Ministership, had been there in the jail or on the road most of the times. But in Tamil Nadu ... (Interruptions)

Sasikala was treated like a President. (Interruptions)

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : The entire State have been divided into three regions. Each one of these regions are being governed by one of the sons of the Chief Minister. . (Interruptions)

the Indian Airlines and Air India planes. ..(Interruptions) Sir, I need your protection. ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¤ÉÒSÉ ¨ÉäÆ ´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ ¨ÉiÉ b÷É±ÉäÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI R. MUTHIAH: Western region is governed by one son. The Southern region is governed by another son and our South region by another son. The entire State has been divided into three regions and they are crowned to one of his sons there in Tamil Nadu. Like that, the proxy matter can well be fixed to the state of affairs of Tamil Nadu. (Interruptions)

son has been brought into the proceedings of the House. It should be expunged. The sons of the Chief Minister of Tamil Nadu have been brought into the record. It should be expunged. I need your protection. ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : =ºÉ {É®ú nùäJÉEò®ú ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ ±ÉäÆMÉä* SHRI R. MUTHIAH : Why? Am I misleading the House? Is it not a fact?... (Interruptions) There is an increasing role of anti-national forces. Shri L.K. Advani knows from the incident of Coimbatore blast rather any body. On a single day, we have lost more than 100 lives in that blast in Coimbatore.

SHRI M. SELVARASU : What about Mahamaham?

SHRI R. MUTHIAH: Mahamaham is there. It was an accident. ... (Interruptions)

It is because of the two ladies, a number of people have been killed. More than 40 people have been killed. ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ ¸ÉÒ ¤ÉÉ±ÉÚ, +É{É EòÉªÉÇ´ÉÉ½þÒ ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÉvÉÉ ¨ÉiÉ b÷É±ÉäÆ* EÞò{ÉªÉÉ ¶ÉÉÆÊiÉ ®úJÉäÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI R. MUTHIAH : Yes, it is an accident. There are so many accidents. Is it like this? Is it like Coimbatore blast? In Coimbatore blast, we have lost so many lives because of the extremist activities being very freely allowed by the Government of Tamil Nadu.

has been taken. ...(Interruptions) ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{É ¤ÉÒSÉ ¨ÉäÆ ´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ ¨ÉiÉ b÷É±ÉäÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI R. MUTHIAH : Sir, he should not interfere like this. In that Coimbatoreblast, the main accused, one lady by name Aizha, has now been left out from the accused list today. Why? b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù (¨ÉvÉÖ¤ÉxÉÒ) : ¨Éä®úÉ {ÉÉì<Æ]õ +Éì¡ò +Éìb÷Ç®ú ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨ÉèÆxÉä +É{ÉºÉä Eò<Ç ¤ÉÉ®ú ®úäE´Éäº]õ ÊEòªÉÉ ÊEò b÷Ò.B¨É.Eòä. +Éè®ú +xxÉÉ b÷Ò.B¨É.Eòä. Eòä ºÉnùºªÉÉäÆ EòÉ ¤Éè`öxÉä EòÉ +®úäxVÉ¨ÉäÆ]õ <iÉxÉÉ xÉWÉnùÒEò ½þè ÊEò ÊEòºÉÒ ¦ÉÒ ÊnùxÉ EòÉä<Ç nùÖPÉÇ]õxÉÉ ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÒ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI R. MUTHIAH : I am comparing the incidents of Bihar with Tamil Nadu....(Interruptions) Shri Somnath Chatterjee has told this House that tomorrow we are going to urge the Govt....(Interruptions) Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav has narrated all the stories of Uttar Pradesh here. Sir, like that, in all other States and particularly in Tamil Nadu there is an increasing role of anti-national forces. There may be some anti-national forces in Bihar. But, on the other hand, in Tamil Nadu the anti-national forces are encouraged by the Government itself. That is our accusation against the Government of Tamil Nadu. ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : `öÒEò ½þè* +¤É EòxÉE±ÉÚb÷ EòÒÊVÉB* SHRI R. MUTHIAH : I am coming to an end. The Governor of Bihar has listed a case of the wife of a Dalit IAS officer being intimidated by the son of a prominent RJD leader.

Acid was thrown on her during your period...(Interruptions)

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : But in your case, one poor Dalit lady had been raped in Aminjikarai Police Station in Chennai city, itself The police officers themselves raped one Chithra who happens to be a dalit lady.

Again, Sir, mass killings of dalits have been reported by the Governor of Bihar. In Tamil Nadu, only ten days back, in a town near Chennai, byname Thiruvallur, due to some spurious liquor, we have lost 22 dalits and other poor people there. Even then the main accused behind that incident, one Selvam, could not be traced by the police. Some ten days before this incident, the Police Superintendent of that district had arrested him under the Goondas Act, but because of the intervention of the ruling party bigwigs, he had been released, and after his release, this spurious liquor incident took place. So, such large scale breakdown of law and order is there. It is mentioned in the report that even some officers are being killed in the State. ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +¤É +É{É ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ EòÒÊVÉB* SHRI R. MUTHIAH : When the Chief Minister was there in Madurai, one of the jail officers was killed on that day in front of the jail itself. If we go by these reports, we can come to the conclusion that Tamil Nadu is the fittest State for action to be taken under article 356...(Interruptions)

misled by this sort of blackmailing...(Interruptions).

SHRI R. MUTHIAH : Sir, ISI activities have been quoted as one of the reason for the dismissal of the Bihar Government, but in Tamil Nadu, the Special Secretary of the Ministry of Home Affairs, Shri Ashok Kumar himself has stated that there was enough evidence available of ISI complicity in funding insurgency in Tamil Nadu and elsewhere in the country. This is the report of the Special Secretary in the Ministry of Home Affairs. ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +¤É nùÚºÉ®úä ºÉnùºªÉÉäÆ EòÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä EòÉ ¨ÉÉèEòÉ nùÒÊVÉB, +É{É ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ EòÒÊVÉB* ¨ÉäVÉ®ú VÉxÉ®ú±É ¦ÉÖ´ÉxÉ SÉxpù JÉhb÷Ú®úÒ, B´ÉÒBºÉB¨É : ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, =xÉEòÒ ºÉÆJªÉÉ ÊEòiÉxÉÒ ½þè +Éè®ú <xÉEòÒ ºÉÆJªÉÉ ÊEòiÉxÉÒ ½þè, <ºÉEòÉä vªÉÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ®úÊJÉªÉä, ½þ¨É ÊºÉ¡òÇ +É{ÉEòÉä ªÉÉnù Ênù±ÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ºÉ¦ÉÒ ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ +{ÉxÉÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ºÉ¨ÉªÉ Eòä ¨ÉÖiÉÉÊ¤ÉEò ¤ÉÉä±ÉiÉä ½þèÆ* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä {ÉÉºÉ VÉÉä ºÉÚSÉÒ ={É±É¤vÉ ½þè, =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ +¤É ºÉ¨ÉªÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉSÉÉ ½þè* SHRI R. MUTHIAH : I am concluding, Sir.

Sir, more than that, there is a report in a major Tamil daily Dina Malar. It says that the ISI people are training the extremists of Tamil Nadu in an island near Rameshwaram, by name Nedun Theivu. ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +¤É +É{ÉEòÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ ½þÖ+É, +¤É ¨ÉèÆ nùÚºÉ®úä ºÉnùºªÉ EòÉä ¤ÉÖ±ÉÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* EÞò{ÉªÉÉ +É{É ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ EòÒÊVÉB* SHRI R. MUTHIAH : Sir, Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav and others have narrated so many things about their States. All those things can ruin only one State. But the incidents and the extremist activities in Tamil Nadu will ruin the entire country. That is why we are saying that Tamil Nadu is the fittest State for action to be taken under article 356.

They should have first applied it to the State of Tamil Nadu. But since they have applied Article 356 to Bihar first and Bihar has taken precedence, Tamil Nadu is the fittest State where it can be applied next. The Union Government has to take action under Article 356 and dismiss the Government of Tamil Nadu to save this country.

SHRI LALU PRASAD (MADHEPURA): What about Bihar? ....(Interruptions) So, they are supporting the Central Government for having dismissed the Government of Bihar. ....(Interruptions) He has not spoken a single word about social justice rendered by the Government there, and communal forces ...(Interruptions)

SHRI R. MUTHIAH: I spoke about it earlier when he was not there and appreciated his efforts. But we cannot support him an incident of massacre of Dalits. That is why we are supporting this resolution.

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(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ VÉÉìVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ :¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ ¨ÉÖZÉä {É½þ±Éä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä nùÒÊVÉB, +É{É VÉÉxÉ VÉÉªÉäÆMÉä* Ê{ÉUô±Éä {ÉÉÆSÉ ´É¹ÉÉäÇÆ ¨ÉäÆ ´ªÉÊEiÉMÉiÉ ½þiªÉÉªÉäÆ, ºÉÉ¨ÉÚÊ½þEò ½þiªÉÉªÉäÆ, MÉÉä±ÉÒ EòÉÆb÷, Ê½þÆºÉEò Ê´É´ÉÉnù +Éè®ú Ê½þÆºÉEò ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉ, ºÉ¤É EòÉä Ê¨É±ÉÉEò®ú ±ÉMÉ¦ÉMÉ 36 ½þVÉÉ®ú ºÉä 38 ½þVÉÉ®ú ±ÉÉäMÉ ¨ÉÉ®úä MÉB ½þèÆ* b÷EòèiÉÒ B´ÉÆ ±ÉÚ]õ iÉÉä ÊnùxÉ-nù½þÉc÷ä EòÒ +É¨É PÉ]õxÉÉªÉäÆ ½þèÆ* +{É½þ®úhÉ +Éè®ú Ê¡ò®úÉèiÉÒ iÉÉä BEò |ÉSÉÊ±ÉiÉ +Éè®ú º´ÉÒEÞòiÉ ´ªÉ´ÉºÉÉªÉ ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ ½þè* ¨ÉÊ½þ±ÉÉ+ÉäÆ {É®ú Ê´É¶Éä¹ÉEò®ú +ÉÊnù´ÉÉÊºÉªÉÉäÆ {É®ú +iªÉÉSÉÉ®ú B´ÉÆ =xÉ {É®ú ¤É±ÉÉiEòÉ®ú iÉÉä Ê´ÉÊvÉ-´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ EòÒ ÊºlÉÊiÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¨É½þVÉ ºÉ®ú±É +Éè®ú ºÉÉvÉÉ®úhÉ PÉ]õxÉÉªÉäÆ ¤ÉxÉ MÉ<Ç ½þèÆ* ÊºÉ¡òÇ ¤ÉxnùÚEò EòÒ ¦ÉÉ¹ÉÉ VÉÉxÉxÉä ´ÉÉ±Éä ´É½þÉÆ +{ÉxÉÒ ºÉiiÉÉ ¦ÉÒ SÉ±ÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ * ®úÉVªÉ Eòä 54 ÊVÉ±ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ±ÉMÉ¦ÉMÉ 17 ÊVÉ±Éä +Éè®ú 13 ÊVÉ±ÉÉäÆ Eòä 132 lÉÉxÉäÆ +iªÉxiÉ ºÉÆ´ÉänùxÉ¶ÉÒ±É ½þÉä MÉB ½þèÆ* {É]õxÉÉ, VÉ½þÉxÉÉ¤ÉÉnù, MÉªÉÉ, +Éè®úÆMÉÉ¤ÉÉnù +Éè®ú {É±ÉÉ¨ÉÚ ÊVÉ±Éä Eòä Fò¨É¶É: 20,13,19,15 +Éè®ú 21 lÉÉxÉä Ê½þÆºÉEò MÉÖ]õÉäÆ Eòä MÉgø ¤ÉxÉä ½þÖB ½þèÆ* ¦ÉÉMÉ±É{ÉÖ®ú, ºÉÉ½þä¤ÉMÉÆVÉ, ¤ÉÉÆEòÉ ÊVÉ±ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ Ê½þÆºÉEò MÉÖ]õ {ÉÖÊ±ÉºÉ EòÉä ±É±ÉEòÉ®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* SÉiÉ®úÉ +Éè®ú ÊMÉÊ®úb÷Ò½þ ÊVÉ±ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ nùÉä MÉÖ]õ ªÉÖr®úiÉ ½þèÆ* Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä ¨ÉÖJªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ xÉä +{ÉxÉÒ ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò ¶Éè±ÉÒ ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉ +®úÉVÉEòiÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ =i|Éä®úEò EòÒ ¦ÉÚÊ¨ÉEòÉ ÊxÉ¦ÉÉ<Ç ½þè* Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú uÉ®úÉ º´ÉªÉÆ ÊxÉÊ¨ÉÇiÉ +®úÉVÉEòiÉÉ Eòä VÉÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ´ÉÉºÉÒ Uô]õ{É]õÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉxÉiÉÉ uÉ®úÉ SÉÖxÉÒ MÉªÉÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉ {ÉÉÆSÉ ºÉÉ±É EòÉ <ÊiÉ½þÉºÉ, ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) v´ÉºiÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú, VÉxÉiÉÉ Eòä VÉ±Éä ºÉ{ÉxÉä, Ê½þÆºÉEò ´ÉÉ®únùÉiÉäÆ +Éè®ú Eò]õä ÊºÉ®ú EòÉ <ÊiÉ½þÉºÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY (MAHABUBNAGAR): Sir, I am on a point of order.

MAJOR GENERAL BHUVAN CHANDRA KHANDURI, AVSM : We would like to know under which rule he is raising the point of order.... (Interruptions)

SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : I would like to know the document from which the Minister is reading. That document must be made available to all of us.

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDEES: Sir, I will make it available to them.... (Interruptions)

SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : No, Sir, he must let the House know about the nature of the document.

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: Yes, I will let the House know about it. I will present it to the House.

SHRI S. JAIPAL REDDY : Sir, the rules demand that he should first mention the document from which he is reading.... (Interruptions)

SHRI AJIT JOGI : If, the hon. Minister is quoting something from a document, before quoting he must mention what the document is.

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: I will lay it. ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¸ÉÒ VÉªÉ{ÉÉ±É ®úädÒ xÉä ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ EòÉ |É¶xÉ =`öÉªÉÉ lÉÉ, =x½þÉäÆxÉä b÷ÉEòÖ¨ÉäÆ]õ Eòä ºÉÆ¤ÉÆvÉ ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉxÉEòÉ®úÒ SÉÉ½þÒ* ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä b÷ÉEòÖ¨ÉäÆ]õ Eòä Ê´É¹ÉªÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉiÉÉ ÊnùªÉÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ : ªÉ½þ EòèºÉÒ Ê´Éb÷¨¤ÉxÉÉ ½þè, Eò½þxÉä EòÉä ±ÉÉäEòiÉÆjÉ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ´ªÉÉ´É½þÉÊ®úEò °ü{É ¨ÉäÆ ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉ EòÒ ªÉ½þ EòèºÉÒ ¶Éè±ÉÒ ½þè, ÊVÉºÉEòÒ <¨ÉÉ®úiÉ ±ÉÚ]õ, +{É½þ®úhÉ +Éè®ú ¤É±ÉÉiEòÉ®ú EòÒ PÉ]õxÉÉ+ÉäÆ ºÉä Ê±ÉJÉÒ ½þè* ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ ªÉ½þ nùºiÉÉ´ÉäVÉ ºÉ¦ÉÉ{É]õ±É {É®ú ®úJÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) Ê{ÉUô±Éä Ê´ÉvÉÉxÉºÉ¦ÉÉ Eòä SÉÖxÉÉ´É ¨ÉäÆ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä Ê±ÉB PÉÉä¹ÉhÉÉ-{ÉjÉ lÉÉ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¶ÉÉÆÊiÉ ®úÊJÉªÉä* b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù : ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä +¦ÉÒ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ {ÉÖ®úÉxÉÉ PÉÉä¹ÉhÉÉ-{ÉjÉ {ÉgøÉ ½þè* ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ ¤ÉiÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ÊEò 10 ºÉÉ±É ºÉä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ MÉc÷¤Éc÷Ò ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ ºÉä {ÉÚUôxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò <xÉ 10 ºÉÉ±ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ´Éä 8 ºÉÉ±É ¶ÉÉºÉEò {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) 8 ºÉÉ±É iÉEò ªÉä ¨ÉÆjÉÒ lÉä +Éè®ú ªÉä ¦ÉÒ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ lÉä* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ VÉÉìVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ : ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉÖZÉä +É{ÉEòÉ ºÉÆ®úIÉhÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ ªÉÉnù´É : ªÉ½þ VÉÉ±ÉÒ ½þè, {ÉgøxÉä nùÉä* VÉVÉ¨ÉäÆ]õ iÉÉä ±ÉJÉxÉ>ð EòÒ ½þÉ<ÇEòÉä]õÇ Eòä VÉVÉ xÉä ÊnùªÉÉ ½þè* +ºÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þ VÉÉ±ÉÒ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) EòÉÆOÉäºÉ +Éè®ú ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ Ê¨É±ÉEò®ú xÉ ®ú½þäÆ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ªÉ½þ VÉÉ±ÉÒ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù : <ºÉä +É{É Eò½þÉÆ ºÉä ±Éä +ÉB ½þèÆ* Ê{ÉUô±Éä SÉÖxÉÉ´ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ +Éè®ú ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù ªÉÉnù´É xÉä Ê¨É±ÉEò®ú ±ÉÉäEò ºÉ¦ÉÉ EòÉ SÉÖxÉÉ´É ±Éc÷É lÉÉ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ EÞò¹hÉ ±ÉÉ±É ¶É¨ÉÉÇ : ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù VÉÒ xÉä VÉÉä b÷ÉEªÉÚ¨ÉäÆ]ºÉ {Égøä lÉä, ´Éä EòÉèxÉºÉä lÉä, =x½þäÆ ¦ÉÒ ´Éä ºÉ¦ÉÉ {É]õ±É {É®ú ®úJÉäÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ VÉÉìVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ : ªÉ½þ 1995 iÉEò EòÉ {ÉÉÆSÉ ºÉÉ±É EòÉ ®úÉVªÉ EòÒ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÒ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ ½þè* ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉä 1995 Eòä SÉÖxÉÉ´ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉxÉä +{ÉxÉÒ ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÚÊ¨ÉEòÉ ®úJÉÒ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) b÷É. ¶ÉEòÒ±É +½þ¨Énù : 1995 ¨ÉäÆ +É{É Eò½þÉÆ lÉä?

17.17 hrs. (Mr. Speaker in the chair) ¸ÉÒ VÉÉìVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ½þ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉEòÉ ºÉÆ®úIÉhÉ Ê¨É±ÉäMÉÉ iÉÉä ½þ¨É +{ÉxÉÉ ¦ÉÉ¹ÉhÉ VÉ±nùÒ ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ Eò®úäÆMÉä* +¦ÉÒ iÉÉä ½þ¨ÉxÉä ¶ÉÖ°ü+ÉiÉ EòÒ ½þè +Éè®ú ½þ¨ÉäÆ ®úÉäEòÉ-]õÉäEòÉ VÉÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ Ê¡ò®ú ¤ÉiÉÉ nùÚÆ ÊEò ªÉ½þ SÉÖxÉÉ´É PÉÉä¹ÉhÉÉ-{ÉjÉ Ê´ÉvÉÉxÉ ºÉ¦ÉÉ SÉÖxÉÉ´É 1995, Ê¤É½þÉ®ú |Énùä¶É, EòÉÆOÉäºÉ Eò¨Éä]õÒ (<Ç) ºÉnùÉEòiÉ +É¸É¨É, {É]õxÉÉ EòÒ |ÉºiÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉnù EòÉ {É½þ±ÉÉ +vªÉÉªÉ Ê´ÉÊvÉ +Éè®ú ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, SÉÚÆÊEò EòÉÆOÉäºÉ +Éè®ú ´ÉÉ¨É{ÉÆlÉÒ nùÉäxÉÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä |ÉºiÉÉ´É EòÉä Ê´É®úÉävÉ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB BEò ºÉÉlÉ ½þèÆ iÉÉä ´Éä +ÉVÉ <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É EòÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ iÉÉä Eò®úäÆMÉä ½þÒ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: He is not yielding.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions) * ®úä±É ¨ÉÆjÉÒ (¸ÉÒ xÉÒiÉÒ¶É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú): +¦ÉÒ +É{ÉEòä ºÉÉ¨ÉÉxªÉ YÉÉxÉ EòÉ {ÉÊ®úSÉªÉ Ê¨É±É MÉªÉÉ ½þè* 21 VÉÚxÉ, 1994 EòÉä ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉ +±ÉMÉ ½þÉä MÉB lÉä +Éè®ú ºÉ¨ÉiÉÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ ¤ÉxÉÒ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ªÉ½þÒ +É{ÉEòÉ ºÉÉ¨ÉÉxªÉ YÉÉxÉ ½þè* B.+É<Ç.ºÉÒ.ºÉÒ. Eòä VÉxÉ®ú±É ºÉèFòä]ÅÒ ¤Éè`öä ½þèÆ* +SUôÉ ½þÖ+É ºÉÉäÊxÉªÉÉ VÉÒ xÉä =x½þäÆ ½þ]õÉ ÊnùªÉÉ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ÊnùÊM´ÉVÉªÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ (¤ÉÉÆEòÉ): +É{É +{ÉxÉÒ ®úÉªÉ ¦ÉÒ ¤ÉiÉÉBÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI RAJESH PILOT (DAUSA): You are teaching us lessons today....(Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Rajesh Pilot, he is not yielding.

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ®úÉVÉä¶É {ÉÉªÉ±É]õ : Eò±É iÉEò +É{É ¤ÉÒ.VÉä.{ÉÒ. EòÉä ¤É½þÖiÉ ¤ÉÖ®úÉ-¦É±ÉÉ Eò½þiÉä lÉä +Éè®ú +ÉVÉ ¤ÉÒ.VÉä.{ÉÒ. Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ¤Éè`öä ½þèÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ ªÉÉnù´É : ½þ¨É VÉÉVÉÇ ºÉÉ½þ¤É EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉÖxÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉä ½þèÆ* <x½þäÆ ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä ÊnùªÉÉ VÉÉB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. SPEAKER: Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ EÞò¹hÉ ±ÉÉ±É ¶É¨ÉÉÇ : ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ, +É{É ¤É½þÖiÉ ¤ÉÉä±É SÉÖEòä ½þèÆ* +¤É VÉÉVÉÇ ºÉÉ½þ¤É EòÉä ºÉÖÊxÉB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ SÉxpù¶ÉäJÉ®ú : +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, +MÉ®ú ªÉ½þÒÆ ºÉÆºÉnùÒªÉ ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä <ºÉ ºÉÒ]õ {É®ú ¤Éè`öxÉÉ ¤ÉäEòÉ®ú ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. SPEAKER: This is not good. What is this?

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ : ¨ÉèÆxÉä VÉÉä nùºiÉÉ´ÉäVÉ ªÉ½þÉÆ {Égø Eò®ú ºÉÖxÉÉªÉÉ, ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÒ <VÉÉVÉiÉ ºÉä <ºÉä ºÉ¦ÉÉ {É]õ±É {É®ú ®úJÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þÚÆMÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆxÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä |ÉºiÉÉ´É Eòä Ê´É®úÉävÉ ¨ÉäÆ ´ÉÉ¨É{ÉÆlÉÒ nù±ÉÉäÆ EòÉ ¦ÉÒ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ EòÉä Ê¨É±ÉÉ SÉÚÆÊEò Ê´É®úÉävÉ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ EòÉ ½þè ÊVÉºÉ EòÒ ´ÉEòÉ±ÉiÉ xÉäiÉÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉÒ nù±É xÉä EòÒ* ªÉ½þ SÉÉ®ú ºÉÉ±É EòÉ {ÉÖ®úÉxÉÉ nùºiÉÉ´ÉäVÉ ½þè* <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ {É½þ±Éä {ÉÉÆSÉ ºÉÉ±É EòÉ <ÊiÉ½þÉºÉ +Éè®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ +´ÉºlÉÉ EòÉ ÊVÉFò ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉnù SÉÉ®ú ºÉÉ±É ½þÉä SÉÖEòä ½þèÆ* ¨ÉèÆ =xÉ SÉÉ®ú ºÉÉ±ÉÉäÆ Eòä nùºiÉÉ´ÉäVÉ EòÉä <ºÉÊ±ÉB xÉ½þÒÆ ®úJÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þÚÆMÉÉ ÊEò ¨ÉèÆ ºÉnùxÉ EòÉ VªÉÉnùÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ±ÉäxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ¨ÉèÆ ´ÉÉ¨É{ÉÆlÉÒ Ê¨ÉjÉÉäÆ Eòä BEò-nùÉä ¨ÉÉ¨ÉÚ±ÉÒ |ÉºiÉÉ´É ªÉ½þÉÆ ®úJÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ 18 +Éè®ú 20 ÊnùºÉ¨¤É®ú EòÉä ¦ÉÖ®úEòÖÆb÷É ¨ÉäÆ B.+É<Ç.]õÒ.ªÉÚ.ºÉÒ. EòÉ ®úÉVªÉ ºÉ¨¨Éä±ÉxÉ ½þÖ+É lÉÉ* =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÉÊ®úiÉ ÊEòB |ÉºiÉÉ´É ¨ÉäÆ BEò |ÉºiÉÉ´É ªÉ½þ ½þè :

_______________________________________________________________________ * Not recorded "According to a Government report, only 47,000 villages out of 67,000 villages of Bihar had been equipped with electricity in the Congress rule. But under Laloo-Rabri Government, half of those electrified villages have been disconnected from electricity and the rest are also kept in dark because there is dearth of electricity supply. As electricity theft is common added with problems of law and order which have crippled the electricity supply network, the small scale and cottage industries have been completely paralysed. The Government handed over important transport routes to private bus owners leaving State Roadways Corporation to die. Bihar State Sugar Corporation, Leather Development Corporation, Handloom Board and so many other State Government undertakings are facing lingering debts due to rampant corruption at all levels."

The Panchayat elections have not been conducted for the last twenty years and Bihar is losing Rs.2000 crore every year on this single account." ¨Éä®úä JªÉÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þ MÉ±ÉiÉ +ÉÆEòc÷É ½þè* "The only industry which is thriving is of loot, rape and kidnapping. Bihar is now lying on a disastrous bed. The Government is pushing it to its lingering death. Backwardness is growing apace because of de-industrialisation. The position is deteriorating sharply day in and day out." ªÉ½þ ºÉÒ.{ÉÒ.+É<Ç. Eòä xÉäiÞÉi´É ¨ÉäÆ B.+É<Ç.]õÒ. ªÉÚ. EòÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú |Énùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ SÉ±ÉxÉä ´ÉÉ±ÉÉ +ÉxnùÉä±ÉxÉ lÉÉ* SHRI AJAY CHAKRABORTY (BASIRHAT): What is the relevance of this to the use of Article 356 in Bihar?...(Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ VÉÉìVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ: ªÉ½þ xªÉÚ BäVÉ ´ÉÒEò±ÉÒ 10-16 VÉxÉ´É®úÒ Eòä +ÆEò ¨ÉäÆ |ÉºiÉÉ´É Uô{ÉÉ ½þè* ªÉ½þ |ÉºiÉÉ´É ½þ¨É ¨ÉäÆ ºÉä ÊEòºÉÒ xÉä xÉ½þÒÆ Ê±ÉJÉÉ +Éè®ú xÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ nùºiÉÉ´ÉäVÉ ½þè* VÉxÉ´É®úÒ 23 Eòä +ÆEò ¨ÉäÆ BEò +Éè®ú VÉÉxÉEòÉ®úÒ nùÒ MÉ<Ç ½þè-

"The State Council, that is, the State Council of the Communist Party of India (CPI) condemned the murder of the workers of the CPI, CPI(M) and other political parties, growing incidence of abductions for ransom, rapes and murders and deteriorating law and order situation. The State Council expressed its serious concern at the murder of the DSP of Saharsa and the threat to the life of the S.P., Dharbanga by criminals and smugglers in which ruling party leaders are alleged to be involved."

This is also of the `New Age' of 17-23 January. +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉÊ±ÉªÉä ªÉä ºÉÉ®úÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ Eòä ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉä ®úJÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ´ÉèºÉä ¨Éä®úä {ÉÉºÉ EòÉ¡òÒ nùºiÉÉ´ÉäVÉ ½þèÆ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉèÆ =xÉEòÉ <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É xÉ½þÒÆ Eò°üÆMÉÉ* EòÉ®úhÉ ÊEò ¨ÉèÆxÉä ¨ÉèÆxÉä +É{ÉEòä ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉä nùÉä ¤Éc÷ä =nùÉ½þ®úhÉ ®úJÉä ½þèÆ* ªÉä nùºiÉÉ´ÉäVÉ +É{ÉEòä ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉä <ºÉÊ±ÉªÉä ®úJÉä EªÉÉäÆÊEò ÊVÉºÉ ¨ÉEòºÉnù ºÉä ªÉ½þ |ÉºiÉÉ´É <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉªÉÉ ½þè ªÉÉ ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É ¨É½þÉänùªÉ EòÒ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ Eòä EòÉ®úhÉ ªÉä ºÉÉ®úÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ SÉ±ÉÉ<Ç MÉ<Ç ½þèÆ, =xÉEòÉ VÉ´ÉÉ¤É nùäxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉªÉä, <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É Eòä ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þÒ ½þèÆ* VÉÉä <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É EòÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, <ºÉ ¨ÉÖJªÉvÉÉ®úÉ ¨ÉäÆ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ +Éè®ú ´ÉÉ¨É{ÉÆlÉÒ nùÉäxÉÉäÆ xÉä ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ Ê±ÉJÉÒ ½þèÆ +Éè®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä ¨ÉVÉnùÚ®úÉäÆ, ÊEòºÉÉxÉÉä Eòä ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉä VÉÉEò®ú +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ ®úJÉÒ ½þèÆ, +MÉ®ú =xÉEòÉä lÉÉäc÷É ºÉÉ ¦ÉÒ Ê´É¶´ÉÉºÉ ½þè iÉÉä ¨Éä½þ®ú¤ÉÉxÉÒ Eò®úEòä <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ {É®ú {ÉÖxÉÊ´ÉÇSÉÉ®ú Eò®úäÆ* SHRIMATI GEETA MUKHERJEE (PANSKURA): Probably, you were not there while Shri Indrajit Gupta was speaking. We still stand by it. While speaking, Shri Indrajit Gupta made it clear that the law and order situation in Bihar is not what it should be. But he made it clear what are the constitutional provisions to impose Artile 356. ¸ÉÒ VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ: <ºÉEòÉ EòÉ®úhÉ ªÉ½þ ½þè ÊEò ªÉ½þ ºÉÆPÉ¹ÉÇ, Ê´É´ÉÉnù, ¤É½þºÉ +Éè®ú ªÉ½þ |ÉºiÉÉ´É ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä ±ÉäEò®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, ªÉ½þ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä ¦ÉÊ´É¹ªÉ EòÉä ±ÉäEò®ú ½þè ÊVÉºÉEòÒ SÉSÉÉÇ +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä +{ÉxÉä SÉÖxÉÉ´É PÉÉä¹ÉhÉÉ {ÉjÉ +Éè®ú |ÉºiÉÉ´É ¨ÉäÆ EòÒ ½þè* +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +¤É ¨ÉèÆ xÉäiÉÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉÒ nù±É Eòä Eò±É ÊnùªÉä MÉªÉä ¦ÉÉ¹ÉhÉ Eòä BEò Ê½þººÉä EòÒ +Éä®ú VÉÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* =x½þÉäÆxÉä +É®ú.¤ÉÒ.+É<Ç. EòÉ ÊVÉFò ÊEòªÉÉ +Éè®ú ªÉ½þ ¤ÉiÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þÉ ÊEò +ÉÊlÉÇEò ¨ÉÉ¨É±ÉÉäÆ ¨Éä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ºÉä ¤ÉgøEò®ú EòÉä<Ç nùÚºÉ®úÉ ºÉÚ¤ÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ªÉä ¶É¤nù <xÉEòä xÉ ½þÉäÆ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ <xÉEòä ¤ÉiÉÉxÉä EòÉ VÉÉä føÆMÉ ½þè, =ºÉºÉä ¨ÉÖZÉä ±ÉMÉÉ ÊEò BEò IÉhÉ Eòä Ê±ÉªÉä ªÉä ´ªÉÆMÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* SÉÚÆÊEò ¨Éä®úÉ +Éè®ú +É{ÉEòÉ {ÉÊ®úSÉªÉ 30-40 ºÉÉ±ÉÉäÆ ºÉä ½þè +Éè®ú +É{É +EºÉ®ú ´ªÉÆMªÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä ¨ÉÖZÉä ±ÉMÉÉ ÊEò ¶ÉÉªÉnù +É{É ´ªÉÆMªÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ VÉ¤É +É{ÉxÉä nùÚºÉ®úä ®úÉVªÉÉäÆ EòÒ +Éè®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ iÉÖ±ÉxÉÉ Eò®úEòä Ê®úWÉ´ÉÇ ¤ÉèÆEò EòÉ ½þ´ÉÉ±ÉÉ nùäEò®ú +ÉÆEòc÷ä ®úJÉä, iÉ¤É ¨ÉèÆxÉä ºÉÉäSÉÉ ÊEò +É{É ¤É½þÖiÉ MÉÆ¦ÉÒ®ú ½þèÆ* ¨ÉèÆ ¤É½þÖiÉ nùÖJÉÒ ®ú½þÉ* nùÖJÉÒ <ºÉÊ±ÉB xÉ½þÒÆ ÊEò ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉ ½þÉäxÉÉ ½þè, nùÖJÉÒ <ºÉÊ±ÉB ÊEò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉEòä Ênù±É EòÒ EªÉÉ ºÉÉäSÉ ½þè* SÉÚÆÊEò +É{ÉxÉä +{ÉxÉä nù±É Eòä xÉäiÉÉ EòÒ SÉSÉÉÇ EòÒ ÊEò xÉÉ®úÉªÉhÉ{ÉÖ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ZÉÉäÆ{Éc÷-{É^Ò ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉEò®ú ¸ÉÒ¨ÉiÉÒ <ÆÊnù®úÉ MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä +ÉÆºÉÚ {ÉÉäÆUôxÉä EòÉ EòÉ¨É ÊEòªÉÉ, =ºÉÒ ºÉÆnù¦ÉÇ ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉxÉä xÉÉ®úÉªÉhÉ{ÉÖ®ú EòÒ SÉSÉÉÇ EòÒ* ´É½þ SÉSÉÉÇ +É{É BEò iÉ®ú¡ò Eò®úäÆMÉä +Éè®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ +ÉÊlÉÇEò ÊºlÉÊiÉ {É®ú Ê®úWÉ´ÉÇ ¤ÉèÆEò Eòä ºÉÊ]õÇÊ¡òEòä]õ nùäEò®ú <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ EòÉä +Éè®ú nùä¶É EòÉä ¤ÉiÉÉBÆMÉä ÊEò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ EòÉä<Ç ºÉ¨ÉºªÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè -- ªÉä ±ÉÉäMÉ VÉÉxÉ-¤ÉÚZÉEò®ú BäºÉÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ* ªÉä Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò +ÉVÉEò±É ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉ EªÉÉ BäVÉähb÷É ½þè -- ºÉÒFòä]õ BäVÉähb÷É ½þè, Ê½þb÷xÉ BäVÉähb÷É ½þè* Ê½þb÷xÉ BäVÉähb÷É ±ÉäEò®ú ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉ ¨ÉènùÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉB ½þèÆ ªÉÉ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉB ½þèÆ, BäºÉÒ +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÒ VÉÉä ¨ÉÉxÉÊºÉEòiÉÉ ¤ÉxÉÒ ½þè, ½þ¨É =ºÉEòÉä nùÚ®ú Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉä ½þèÆ* =ºÉEòÉä nùÚ®ú Eò®úxÉä Eòä BEò-nùÉä ¨ÉÉMÉÇ ½þèÆ* Here is the Report of the Comptroller and Auditor General of India, Volume-I, Government of Bihar, for the year ended 31 March, 1996. ¨ÉèÆ =ºÉ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ EòÉä xÉ½þÒÆ {ÉgøxÉÉ SÉÉ½þÚÆMÉÉ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉèÆ Ê´É®úÉävÉÒ nù±É Eòä xÉäiÉÉ ºÉä BEò |ÉÉlÉÇxÉÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* +É{É BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú <ºÉ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ EòÉä ¦ÉÒ {Égø ±ÉÒÊVÉB +Éè®ú <ºÉEòÉä {ÉgøxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù +MÉ®ú +É{ÉEòÉä VÉÆSÉiÉÉ ½þÉä ÊEò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ +ÉÊlÉÇEò ÊºlÉÊiÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉÖnÞùgø ½þè +Éè®ú Ê®úWÉ´ÉÇ ¤ÉèÆEò EòÒ ÊºÉ¡òÉÊ®ú¶É ½þè, iÉÉä Ê¡ò®ú SÉSÉÉÇ EòÖUô +Éè®ú Ênù¶ÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÒ ½þè* ºÉÒ.B.VÉÒ. BEò EòÉÆº]õÒ]ªÉÚ¶ÉxÉ±É +lÉÉìÊ®ú]õÒ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ VÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÒ.B.VÉÒ. EòÉ +{É¨ÉÉxÉ ¦ÉÒ ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè* =xÉEòä Eò<Ç ÊEòº¨É Eòä xÉÉ¨É ´ÉMÉè®ú½þ ®úJÉä VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ* =xÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÉ´ÉÇVÉÊxÉEò iÉÉè®ú {É®ú ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ Eò½þÒ VÉÉiÉÒ ½þèÆ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ºÉÒ.B.VÉÒ. EòÉÆº]õÒ]ªÉÚ¶ÉxÉ±É +lÉÉìÊ®ú]õÒ ¨ÉÉjÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè ¤ÉÊ±Eò =xÉEòÉä ½þ]õÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB, ºÉÖ|ÉÒ¨É EòÉä]õÇ Eòä ÊEòºÉÒ VÉVÉ EòÉä ½þ]õÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB VÉÉä |ÉÊFòªÉÉ ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þè, ´É½þÒ |ÉÊFòªÉÉ ½þè* ´É½þ =xÉEòÉ ºlÉÉxÉ +Éè®ú ¨ÉÉxÉ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ Ê¡ò®ú Eò½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ªÉ½þ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ ½þè --

The C & AG's Report, Volume-I. It says:

"The assets comprising capital investments and loans advanced and the total liabilities of the State Government in the last five years were as follows: ¨ÉèÆ {ÉÚ®úä ºÉÉ±ÉÉäÆ EòÉ xÉ½þÒÆ {ÉgøÚÆMÉÉ* I quote only for the year 1995-96. It says:

1995-96 Assets - Rs.15,007 crore.

Liabilities - Rs.18,770 crore.

Bihar is a bankrupt State and he is talking about the Reserve Bank of India giving a certificate.

It further says:

"While the assets have grown by 27 per cent during the five years, the liabilities have grown by 52 per cent." (Interruptions)

MAJOR GENERAL BHUVAN CHANDRA KHANDURI, AVSM : Mr. Speaker, Sir, Shri Fatmi is constantly giving a running commentary. That should be stopped. (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Fatmi, this is not good. This is too much. Please stop giving this kind of running commentary. ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ ªÉÉnù´É : ½þ¨É iÉÉä =xÉEòÉä ¤Éè`öÉ ½þÒ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ]õÚ ¨ÉSÉ iÉÉä =vÉ®ú ºÉä ½þÉä ®ú½þÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) It further says:

"The increasing gap between assets and liabilities was on account of having revenue deficit in all the years and miscellaneous adjustments and less outlay on assets."

Here is the final clincher. I quote:

"Between 1991 and 1996, capital expenditure remained almost static in rupee terms."

Between 1991-1996, the capital expenditure remained static in rupee terms whereas borrowed funds were used to finance steadily increasing revenue deficit as illustrated in the table below. xÉ¨¤É®ú nùÉä <ºÉEòä +xÉäEò SÉè{]õºÉÇ ½þèÆ* Now, I will come to irregular fraudulent travels under so and so head, and misappropriation of construction material and so on and so forth. ªÉ½þ <ºÉEòä SÉè{]õºÉÇ ½þèÆ +Éè®ú ½þ¨É SÉÉ½þäÆMÉä ÊEò <ºÉEòÉä ±ÉÉªÉ¥Éä®úÒ ¨ÉäÆ ªÉÉ VÉ½þÉÆ Eò½þÒÆ ¦ÉÒ ªÉä ÊEòiÉÉ¤ÉäÆ Ê¨É±ÉiÉÒ ½þÉäÆ, VÉ°ü®ú nùäJÉÉ VÉÉB* +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉEòÉ VªÉÉnùÉ ÊVÉFò xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ªÉ½þ =ºÉ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ EòÉ ´ÉÉä±ªÉÚ¨É-2 ½þè, <ºÉEòÉä ¦ÉÒ lÉÉäc÷É ºÉÉ ºÉ¨ÉZÉxÉÉ VÉ°ü®úÒ ½þè* <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ {ÉèºÉä EòÉ ÊEòºÉ iÉ®ú½þ ºÉä Ê´Énùc÷É±É ½þÖ+É, EòèºÉä EªÉÉ-EªÉÉ ½þÖ+É, <ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ EòÉ¡òÒ =±±ÉäJÉ ½þèÆ* Various categories of animals in Animal Husbandry Department during 1993-94 to 1995-96 were on an average 9559 cattle, 5664 pigs, 40,800 poultry, 1577 goats as per approved scheme. Rs. 10.55 crore were required for food/fodder for these animals for three years as against this, Rs. 279.34 crore were drawn from six treasuries during these three years for purchase of food and fodder. This is only one of a whole 5-6 pages of similar defaultations or similar drawal of money with no sanction and direct loot of the treasury. +É{É Eò½þ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ÊEò ºÉ¤É `öÒEò ½þè, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ºÉÒ.B.VÉÒ. Eò½þ ®ú½þÉ ½þè ÊEò ºÉ¤É ±ÉÚ]õ ½þè, `öÒEò xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, ºÉ¤É ±ÉÚ]õ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ ªÉ½þÉÆ <iÉxÉÒ ¤Éc÷Ò Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ xÉ½þÒÆ {ÉgøÚÆMÉÉ, <ºÉä ¨ÉèÆ ±ÉÉªÉÉ lÉÉ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ºÉÒ.B.VÉÒ. xÉä VÉÉä Ê±ÉJÉÉ ½þè =ºÉEòÉ xÉiÉÒVÉÉ EªÉÉ ½þè* ªÉ½þ nùºiÉÉ´ÉäVÉ VÉ¤É +É{É ªÉ½þÉÆ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ lÉä, iÉ¤É EòÉ ¤ÉxÉÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè* Now, I will come to the Approach Paper to the Ninth Five Year Plan 1997-2002. ... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ ªÉÉnù´É: +É{É ¤É½þÖiÉ ¤ÉÊgøªÉÉ ¤ÉÉä±ÉiÉä ½þèÆ, EòÖUô +{ÉxÉÒ iÉ®ú¡ò ºÉä ¦ÉÒ ¤ÉÉäÊ±ÉªÉä* ¸ÉÒ VÉÉìVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ : ¤ÉÊgøªÉÉ ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä Eòä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä EòÖUô ºÉÉ±É ½þÒ ¤ÉSÉä ½þèÆ* This is a document produced by the Planning Commission of the Government of India in 1996 when you were supporting when they were in Government. What does it say? There is also Page 7, Paragraph No.1.21 in the Approach Paper to the Ninth Five Year Plan. There is also evidence of deterioration of inter-regional disparities in per capita incomes. Some of the populous and less developed States have experienced growth rates which are lower than the national average. In Bihar, the per capita income as measured by the State Domestic Product declined from Rs. 1204 in 1990-91 to Rs. 1067 in 1994-95 at 1980-81 prices which is a ten per cent decline in three years' time. ªÉ½þ ±Éc÷É<Ç +Éè®ú ÊEòºÉÒ SÉÒVÉ Eòä Ê±ÉB xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, ªÉ½þ ±Éc÷É<Ç =ºÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä Ê±ÉB ½þè* <ºÉ ºÉÉ®úä ¨ÉÉ¨É±Éä ¨ÉäÆ +ÉVÉ +MÉ®ú EòÉä<Ç ¨ÉÉ®ú JÉÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè iÉÉä ´É½þ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÉ nùÊ±ÉiÉ ½þè, +ÉÊnù´ÉÉºÉÒ ½þè, MÉ®úÒ¤É ½þè, ÊVÉºÉEòÉ ®úÉäVÉMÉÉ®ú SÉ±ÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè, ÊVÉºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ B.+É<Ç.]õÒ.ªÉÚ.ºÉÒ. xÉä Eò½þÉ ½þè ÊEò ¤Éä®úÉäVÉMÉÉ®úÒ ¤Égø ®ú½þÒ ½þè, EòÉ®úJÉÉxÉä ¤ÉÆnù ½þÉä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* =x½þÉäÆxÉä VÉÉä Eò½þÉ ½þè =ºÉEòä SÉÉ½þä ÊVÉiÉxÉä +ÉÆEòc÷ä +É{É nùäJÉ ±ÉäÆ* ªÉ½þ Eò½þÉxÉÒ JÉi¨É ½þÉäxÉä ´ÉÉ±ÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* ªÉ½þ Ê{ÉUô±Éä nùºÉ ºÉÉ±ÉÉäÆ EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉ Ê±ÉJÉÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè, ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä xÉ½þÒÆ Ê±ÉJÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉÊ±ÉB +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ½þ¨É SÉÉ½þiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò xÉäiÉÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉÒ nù±É VÉ¤É +{ÉxÉä nù±É EòÒ ¦ÉÚÊ¨ÉEòÉ +¦ÉÒ iÉªÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ´Éä <xÉ ¤ÉÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉä JªÉÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ ®úJÉEò®ú +{ÉxÉä Eònù¨É +ÉMÉä ¤ÉgøÉªÉäÆ* +¤É ¨ÉèÆ +ÉÊlÉÇEò ¨ÉÉ¨É±ÉÉäÆ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ EòÖUô Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* BäºÉÉ ¤ÉiÉÉªÉÉ VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò IÉäjÉÒªÉ Ê´É¹É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤Égø ®ú½þÒ ½þè +Éè®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÒUôä SÉSÉÉÇ ½þÖ<Ç ½þè* Eò±É ªÉÉ {É®úºÉÉäÆ ªÉ½þÉÆ Ê{ÉUô±Éä ºÉÉ±É EòÉ <EòÉäxÉÉäÊ¨ÉEò ºÉ´ÉÇä ®úJÉÉ MÉªÉÉ lÉÉ* +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ½þ¨ÉxÉä ªÉä Uô:®úÉVªÉÉäÆ Eòä +ÉÆEòc÷ä =ºÉºÉä ÊxÉEòÉ±Éä ½þèÆ* ºÉ¤ÉºÉä {É½þ±Éä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú, =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉnù ¨É½þÉ®úÉ¹]Å, =iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É, +ÉºÉÉ¨É, {ÉÆVÉÉ¤É +Éè®ú +ÉxwÉ|Énùä¶É* +¦ÉÒ VÉÉä xÉªÉÉ ´Éä]õäVÉ 1990-91 ¨ÉäÆ ±ÉÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè, =ºÉºÉä {É½þ±Éä 1980-81 EòÉ lÉÉ* Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ 1990-91 ¨ÉäÆ 2665 ¯û{ÉB ¡òÒ +Énù¨ÉÒ +É¨ÉnùxÉÒ lÉÒ +Éè®ú 1996-97 ¨ÉäÆ 3835 ¯û{ÉB ½þÉä MÉ<Ç, ªÉÉxÉÒ 44 |ÉÊiÉ¶ÉiÉ ¤ÉgøÉäiiÉ®úÒ ½þÖ<Ç* ¨É½þÉ®úÉ¹]Å ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉÒ +´ÉÊvÉ ¨ÉäÆ 7444 ¯û{ÉB ºÉä 17295 {É®ú {É½þÖÆSÉ MÉ<Ç ªÉÉxÉÒ 130 |ÉÊiÉ¶ÉiÉ ¤ÉgøÉäiiÉ®úÒ ½þÉä MÉ<Ç* =iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ 3590 ¯û{ÉB lÉÒ +Éè®ú 6733 {É®ú +É MÉ<Ç, ªÉÉxÉÒ 87 |ÉÊiÉ¶ÉiÉ ¤ÉgøÉäiiÉ®úÒ ½þÉä MÉ<Ç* +ºÉ¨É, VÉ½þÉÆ <iÉxÉÉ +ÉiÉÆEò´ÉÉnù ½þè, ½þ®ú ºiÉ®ú {É®ú <iÉxÉÒ {É®úä¶ÉÉxÉÒ ½þè, +ÉÊlÉÇEò Ê´ÉEòÉºÉ ºÉä ±ÉäEò®ú ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä =`öxÉä-¤Éè`öxÉä iÉEò {É®ú {É®úä¶ÉÉxÉÒ ½þè ´É½þÉÆ 4281 ¯û{ÉB ºÉä 6663 {É®ú +É MÉ<Ç ªÉÉxÉÒ 58 |ÉÊiÉ¶ÉiÉ ¤ÉgøÉäiiÉ®úÒ ½þÉä MÉ<Ç* {ÉÆVÉÉ¤É ¨ÉäÆ 8318 ºÉä 18213 {É½þÖÆSÉ MÉ<Ç, ªÉÉxÉÒ 120 |ÉÊiÉ¶ÉiÉ ¤ÉgøÉäiiÉ®úÒ ½þÉä MÉ<Ç +Éè®ú +ÉxwÉ|Énùä¶É 4728 ºÉä ¤ÉgøEò®ú 9867 {É®ú {É½þÖÆSÉ MÉªÉÉ ªÉÉxÉÒ 110 |ÉÊiÉ¶ÉiÉ ¤ÉgøÉäiiÉ®úÒ ½þÉä MÉ<Ç +Éè®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉÉjÉ 44 |ÉÊiÉ¶ÉiÉ {É®ú ½þÒ ¯ûEò MÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú PÉ]õiÉÉ ½þÒ VÉÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè, PÉ]õiÉÉ ½þÒ VÉÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè* <ºÉÊ±ÉB ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ±ÉÒÊVÉB ªÉ½þ ¡òÒ +Énù¨ÉÒ ®úÉ¹]ÅÒªÉ +É¨ÉnùxÉÒ ½þè +Éè®ú ªÉ½þ |ÉiªÉäEò |Énùä¶É EòÉ Ê½þºÉÉ¤É <EòxÉÉèÊ¨ÉEò ºÉ´ÉÇä ¨ÉäÆ Uô{ÉÉ ½þè ÊVÉºÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉä ºÉÆºÉnù ¨ÉäÆ ®úJÉÉ ½þè =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ºÉä ªÉä +ÉÆEòc÷ä ÊxÉEòÉ±Éä MÉB ½þèÆ* ¨ÉèÆ <x½þäÆ ºÉÆºÉnù ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉÊ±ÉB ®úJÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ±ÉÉäMÉ ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ±ÉäÆ ÊEò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ÊEòºÉ ®úºÉÉiÉ±É {É®ú +ÉEò®ú {É½þÖÆSÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú =ºÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÉä ¤ÉSÉÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB EªÉÉ Eònù¨É =`öÉxÉÉ +É´É¶ªÉEò ½þè, ´É½þ <ºÉ nùä¶É EòÒ VÉxÉiÉÉ ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ±Éä +Éè®ú ºÉ¤É ±ÉÉäMÉ ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ±ÉäÆ* vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +¤É ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ EòÒ vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ ºÉ´ÉÉ±É +ÉiÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉ {É®ú Ê´É´ÉÉnù ½þè +Éè®ú =ºÉ Ê´É´ÉÉnù ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨É ¦ÉÒ +OÉºÉ®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* =ºÉ {É®ú Ê´É®úÉävÉ ½þè +Éè®ú =ºÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨É ¦ÉÒ +OÉºÉ®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÒ ¨ÉÉ®ú JÉÉB ºÉ¦ÉÒ ±ÉÉäMÉ ªÉ½þÉÆ ¨ÉÉèVÉÚnù ½þèÆ* SÉÉ½þä ´Éä <ºÉ iÉ®ú¡ò ¤Éè`öä ½þÉäÆ ªÉÉ =ºÉ iÉ®ú¡ò ¤Éè`öä ½þÉäÆ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ BEò ¡òEòÇ ½þè +Éè®ú ´É½þ ¡òEòÇ ªÉ½þ ½þè ÊEò +ÉVÉ ¦ÉÒ EòÖUô nù±É ½þèÆ, VÉèºÉä iÉä±ÉÖMÉÖ nùä¶É¨É ½þè, VÉèºÉä VÉ¨¨ÉÚ-Eò¶¨ÉÒ®ú EòÉ xÉè¶ÉxÉ±É EòÉx£òäÆºÉ ½þè, VÉèºÉä +EòÉ±ÉÒ nù±É, VÉèºÉä b÷Ò.B¨É.Eòä. ½þè +Éè®ú ´ÉèºÉä iÉÉä B.+É<Ç.b÷Ò.B¨É.Eòä.¦ÉÒ ½þè, ªÉä BäºÉä EòÖUô nù±É ½þèÆ nùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò <ºÉEòÉä ½þ]õÉ nùäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ ºÉä <ºÉ vÉÉ®úÉ EòÉä ½þ]õÉ+Éä* EòÖUô nù±É Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÖvÉÉ®ú ±ÉÉ+Éä* ºÉ®úEòÉÊ®úªÉÉ Eò¨ÉÒ¶ÉxÉ EòÒ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ ½þè* +¤É =ºÉEòÒ ¨ÉèÆ VªÉÉnùÉ SÉSÉÉÇ ªÉ½þÉÆ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þÚÆMÉÉ EªÉÉäÆÊEò +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú Eò±É =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ EòÉ¡òÒ ¤É½þºÉ EòÒ ½þè* =ºÉ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ Eòä +ÉvÉÉ®ú {É®ú EòÖUô ´É¹ÉÇ {É½þ±Éä VÉÉä <Æ]õ®ú º]õä]õ EòÉèÆÊºÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ ¤É½þºÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü ½þÖ<Ç lÉÒ, =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ EòÉ¡òÒ ¤É½þºÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉnù BEò VÉMÉ½þ {É®ú ªÉ½þ ¨ÉÉ¨É±ÉÉ +ÉªÉÉ ÊEò vÉÉ®úÉ 356 ®ú½þä, ¨ÉMÉ®ú =ºÉEòä iÉÉè®ú-iÉ®úÒEòÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ, =ºÉEòä <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É Eò®úxÉä Eòä iÉÉè®ú-iÉ®úÒEòä ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú Eòä ½þÉlÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þè =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÖvÉÉ®ú ÊEòªÉÉ VÉÉB, ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ BEò |ÉºiÉÉ´É lÉÉ, +Éè®ú +ÊvÉEòiÉ¨É nù±É =ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É Eòä {ÉIÉ ¨ÉäÆ lÉä, <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ Eòä ¦ÉÒiÉ®ú ªÉÉ ¤ÉÉ½þ®ú, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ BEò nù±É ½þè VÉÉä Eò½þiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ªÉ½þ vÉÉ®úÉ xÉ Eòä´É±É VªÉÉäÆ EòÒ iªÉÉäÆ ®ú½þä ¤ÉÊ±Eò <ºÉEòÉ <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É VÉ¤É Eò®úxÉä EòÒ VÉ°ü®úiÉ ½þÉä, iÉ¤É Eò®úxÉÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ +Éè®ú ´É½þ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ ½þè* Eòä´É±É ¨ÉÉjÉ BEò nù±É ½þè* +¦ÉÒ VÉÉä <Æ]õ®ú º]õä]õ EòÉèÆÊºÉ±É EòÒ ¤Éè`öEò ½þÖ<Ç, =ºÉ ¤Éè`öEò ¨ÉäÆ =ºÉ nù±É Eòä ¸ÉÒ +¶ÉÉäEò MÉ½þ±ÉÉäiÉ |ÉÊiÉÊxÉÊvÉi´É Eò®ú ®ú½þä lÉä, =x½þÉäÆxÉä Eò½þÉ:

"It is my Government's considered view that the demands of the nation's integrity and unity call for a strong Centre and, -- about which there are no disputes; if there is anyone among us who believes that we should not have a strong country but the Centre has a different connotation -- therefore, the Central Government should be able to exercise its powers under article 356 whenever the situation so warrants.

While we make a plea for the retention of article 356 in its present form without any change, we trust it would be used sparingly and invoked only as a measure of last resort. ..."

... (Interruptions) I have not completed the quotation. Please do not interrupt me. He says:

"In so far as the question of so-called safeguards against the misuse of this provision is concerned, I am of the view that in a Parliamentary democracy, the greatest safeguard is the Parliament itself.

It would detract from the concept and the fact of the sovereignty of the people of India as operationalised through the Parliament, which mandates the Union Government to work on its behalf if it is subjected to any review or scrutiny by an outside body. We hold that the hon. Supreme Court's verdict in the Bommai case needs to be reviewed. ..."

Finally he ends by saying:

"I would, therefore, strongly urge that this august Council should seriously consider the matter and resolve to call upon the Union Government to explore the possibilities of a review by the hon. Supreme court of its 1994 verdict in the S.R. Bommai case." =ºÉEòÉ +lÉÇ <iÉxÉÉ ½þÒ ½þè ÊEò VÉ½þÉÆ ºÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉÊ]õÇªÉÉÆ ºÉ®úEòÉÊ®úªÉÉ Eò¨ÉÒ¶ÉxÉ EòÒ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ {É®ú +¨É±É Eò®úxÉä EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þÒ ½þèÆ +Éè®ú ºÉÖ|ÉÒ¨É EòÉä]õÇ Eòä ¡òèºÉ±Éä Eòä +ÉvÉÉ®ú {É®ú BEò xÉªÉÉ føÉÆSÉÉ ¤ÉxÉÉxÉä EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þÒ ½þèÆ, ´É½þÒ BEò {ÉÉ]õÒÇ ½þè ÊVÉºÉxÉä +{ÉxÉä iÉÉxÉÉ¶ÉÉ½þÒ ¨ÉÉxÉºÉ EòÉä xÉ½þÒÆ UôÉäc÷É ½þè, ´É½þ =ºÉä ¤ÉxÉÉªÉä ®úJÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÒ ½þè +Éè®ú ´É½þ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ ½þè, ªÉ½þ ¨Éä®úÉ Eò½þxÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉÊ±ÉB xÉäiÉÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉÒ nù±É xÉä Eò±É VÉÉä ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÉ ºÉÉ½þä¤É +¨¤Éäb÷Eò®ú EòÉ =±±ÉäJÉ ÊEòªÉÉ, ªÉ½þÉÆ ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ EòÉ ÊxÉ¨ÉÉÇhÉ ½þÉäiÉä ½þÖB {ÉÆÊb÷iÉ ½ÞþnùªÉxÉÉlÉ EòÖÆVÉ°ü +Éè®ú ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÉ ºÉÉ½þä¤É +¨¤Éäb÷Eò®ú Eòä ¤ÉÒSÉ VÉÉä ´ÉÉnù-Ê´É´ÉÉnù ½þÖ+É, =ºÉEòÉä +É{ÉxÉä {ÉgøEò®ú ºÉÖxÉÉªÉÉ* ´É½þ Ê®úEòÉb÷Ç EòÉ Ê½þººÉÉ ½þè* VÉ¤É {ÉÆÊb÷iÉ ½ÞþnùªÉxÉÉlÉ VÉÒ xÉä Eò½þÉ: "

Is this to be used only when there is misgonvernance in the Province as endanger of the public peace?" ¨Éä®úä JªÉÉ±É ºÉä EòÖUô Ê±ÉJÉxÉä ¨ÉäÆ MÉ±ÉÊiÉªÉÉÆ ½þÖ<Ç ½þèÆ* Dr. B.R. Ambedkar has replied:

"Only when Government is not carried on in consonance with the provisions laid down for the Constitution Government of the Provinces, whether there is a good governance or not in the Province, is not for the Centre to determine. I am quite clear on this point."

Please understand the question. The question is:

"May I ask my hon. friend to make one point clear? Is it the purpose of article 356 to enable the Central Government to intervene in provincial affairs for the sake of the good governance of the Provinces?"

The answer of Dr. B.R. Ambedkar is: "No, No. Centre is not given that authority."

Then the question is:

"Only when there is such misgovernance in the Province as endanger of the public peace?"

The answer is:

"Only when the Government is not carried on in consonance with the provisions laid down for the Constitution Government of the Provinces, whether there is a good governance or not in the Province, is not for article 356 but if there is a breach of the Constitution, then article 356 comes."

This is what Dr. Ambedkar has said. Obviously, when the Reporter has recorded, there has been some typographical errors in this. +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆxÉä <ºÉEòÉ ÊVÉFò ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú EªÉÉäÆ ÊEòªÉÉ? <ºÉEòÉ ÊVÉFò ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉÊ±ÉB Eò®ú ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ EªÉÉäÆÊEò ¦ÉÉ®úiÉ Eòä ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ EòÉ ¨ÉiÉ±É¤É Eòä´É±É EòÉxÉÚxÉ ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* ¦ÉÉ®úiÉ EòÉ ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ, ªÉ½þ ºÉnùxÉ =ºÉ ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ EòÒ ÊxÉ¨ÉÉÇhÉ EòÒ ½þÖ<Ç SÉÒVÉ ½þè* nùä¶É EòÒ Ê´ÉvÉÉxÉ ºÉ¦ÉÉªÉäÆ =ºÉ ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ Eòä iÉ½þiÉ ½þèÆ* <ºÉ ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ Eòä ¦ÉÒiÉ®ú VÉ¤É ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉ EòÉ¨É Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä VÉÉä ÊxÉªÉ¨É ½þèÆ, ´É½þ ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ +Éè®ú ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä iÉªÉ ÊEòªÉä ½þÖB ÊxÉªÉ¨ÉÉäÆ Eòä +xiÉMÉÇiÉ ½þÒ ½þÉäiÉä ½þèÆ* <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ Eòä VÉÊ®úB Eò±É ¤ÉVÉ]õ {Éä¶É ½þÉäMÉÉ, Ê¡ò®ú =ºÉ {É®ú SÉSÉÉÇ ½þÉäxÉÒ ½þè* =ºÉ ¤ÉVÉ]õ Eòä iÉ½þiÉ ´ÉÉä]õ +ÉìxÉ BäEòÉ=Æ]õ ªÉÉ {ÉèºÉÉ ºÉèÆE¶ÉxÉ ½þÉäxÉÉ ½þè, {ÉÚ®úÉ {ÉèºÉÉ EòxºÉÉèÊ±Éb÷ä]õäb÷ ¡òÆb÷ ºÉä +ÉxÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉ ºÉ¤É SÉÒVÉ EòÉ <ºÉ EòÉèxºÉ]õÒ]ªÉÚ¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ÊVÉFò ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ +ÉÊ]õÇEò±É 202 EòÒ +Éä®ú <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ EòÉ vªÉÉxÉ +ÉEòÊ¹ÉÇiÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ {ÉÒ. Ê¶É´É ¶ÉÆEò®ú : {ÉÚ®úÉ {ÉèºÉÉ EòxºÉÉè±ÉÒb÷ä]õäb÷ ¡òÆb÷ ºÉä xÉ½þÒÆ +ÉiÉÉ* ¸ÉÒ VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒWÉ: ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉä ºÉ½þ¨ÉiÉ ½þÚÆ* ªÉ½þ ºÉ½þÒ ½þè ÊEò {ÉÚ®úÉ {ÉèºÉÉ EòxºÉÉè±ÉÒb÷ä]õäb÷ ¡òÆb÷ ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ VÉÉiÉÉ* ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÒ VÉÉä +É´ÉEò ½þè, ´É½þ EòxºÉÉè±ÉÒb÷ä]õäb÷ ¡òÆb÷ ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉiÉÒ ½þè +Éè®ú {É®úºÉÉäÆ +É{É VÉÉä ¤ÉVÉ]õ E±ÉÒªÉ®ú Eò®úäÆMÉä, ´É½þ iÉÉä EòxºÉÉè±ÉÒb÷ä]õäb÷ ¡òÆb÷ ºÉä ÊxÉEòÉ±ÉäÆMÉä* SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER (TENALI): The Consolidated Fund cannot be voted. Please understand that. Parliament does not vote on the Consolidated Funds. Please read the Constitution well.

Now, I am quoting Article 266 from the Consolidated Funds and public accounts of India.

"Subject to the provisions of Article 267 and to the provisions of this Chapter with respect to the assignment of the whole or part of the net proceeds of certain taxes and duties to States, all revenues received by the Government of India, all loans raised by that Government by the issue of treasury bills, loans or ways and means advances and all moneys received by that Government in repayment of loans shall form one consolidated fund to be entitled "the Consolidated Fund of India...."

This is the Constitution. If you have another copy of the Constitution, I shall be happy to have it. ªÉ½þ EòxºÉÉè±ÉÒb÷ä]õäb÷ ¡òÆb÷ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ +VÉÒiÉ VÉÉäMÉÒ : +É{É VÉ¨Éä xÉ½þÒÆ* ¸ÉÒ VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒWÉ: EòÉä<Ç ¤ÉÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ, =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉEòÉä JÉÖ¶ÉÒ ½þÉäxÉÒ SÉÉÊ½þB* ½þ¨É xÉ½þÒÆ VÉ¨Éä iÉÉä +É{ÉEòÉä +ÉxÉÆnù ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB, +É{É {É®úä¶ÉÉxÉ EªÉÉäÆ ½þèÆ?

"No moneys out of the Consolidated Fund of India or the Consolidated Fund of a State shall be appropriated except in accordance with law and for the purposes and in the manner provided in this Constitution."

SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER : My dear friend, you must know that appropriation is different from voting. Please understand this thing. Appropriation Bill is different. Voting on the Consolidated Fund does not take place. There is no provision in the Constitution.

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: Would the hon. Member tell me whether appropriation also means appropriating in your own pocket?

SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER : No. (Interruptions).

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: I am only trying to establish that point here. (Interruptions).

SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER : But you are not establishing. (Interruptions). SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: He is not diverting the point. Either he is not understanding it or he has some other agenda. ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÉ vªÉÉxÉ vÉÉ®úÉ 202 EòÒ +Éä®ú +ÉEòÊ¹ÉÇiÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* "The Governor shall in respect of every financial year cause to be laid before the House or Houses of the Legislature of the State a statement of the estimated receipts and expenditure of the State for that year, in this Part referred to as the "annual financial statement." ªÉ½þ ¤ÉiÉÉiÉÉ ½þè -

"The estimates of expenditure embodied in the annual financial statement shall show separately-

(a) the sums required to meet expenditure described by this Constitution as expenditure charged upon the Consolidated Fund of the State." Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä ½þÖ+É, ªÉ½þ ½þÉ<Ç EòÉä]õÇ EòÉ VÉVÉ¨ÉèÆ]õ ½þè ÊVÉºÉEòä >ð{É®ú ºÉÖ|ÉÒ¨É EòÉä]õÇ xÉä 9 ¨ÉÉSÉÇ, 1996 EòÉä +{ÉxÉÒ ¨ÉÉä½þ®ú b÷É±ÉÒ lÉÒ* ½þÉ<Ç EòÉä]õÇ EòÉ VÉÉä VÉVÉ¨ÉèÆ]õ ½þè +Éè®ú ÊVÉºÉ {É®ú ºÉÖ|ÉÒ¨É EòÉä]õÇ ¨ÉÉä½þ®ú ±ÉMÉÉiÉÉ ½þè, ´É½þ Eò½þiÉÉ ½þè -

"As per the Constitutional provisions, the Government should have submitted revised/supplementary statement of estimated expenditure in the Legislature and obtained additional grant for the service, or drawn money from the Contingency Fund of the State by way of advance."

I am not reading the whole judgment. However, I further quote:

"All these facts, prima facie constitute gross financial indiscipline verging on fraud on the Constitution and the people." ªÉ½þ {É]õxÉÉ ½þÉ<Ç EòÉä]õÇ Eòä nùÉä VÉVÉÉäÆ EòÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ½þ¨É <ºÉEòÒ EòÉ{ÉÒ +É{ÉEòÉä nùä nùäÆMÉä* Ê¡ò®ú +É{É <ºÉ {É®ú Ê]õ{{ÉhÉÒ VÉ°ü®ú Eò®úäÆMÉä Eòä EòèºÉä ªÉ½þ VÉVÉ¨ÉäÆ]õ {ÉÚ®úÉ MÉ±ÉiÉ ½þè* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ Eò½þxÉÉ ªÉ½þ ½þè ÊEò VÉ¤É +É{ÉxÉä {ÉèºÉä EòÉä {É½þ±Éä B±ÉÉ]õ Eò®úÉ Eòä ±Éä Ê±ÉªÉÉ, Ê¡ò®ú Ê¤ÉxÉÉ ÊEòºÉÒ |ÉEòÉ®ú Eòä B±ÉÉ]õ¨ÉäÆ]õ Eòä +É{ÉxÉä ]ÅäVÉ®úÒ ºÉä {ÉèºÉÉ ÊxÉEòÉ±ÉÉ, ÊVÉ±Éä Eòä ºiÉ®ú {É®ú {ÉèºÉÉ ÊxÉEòÉ±ÉÉ? Ê¡ò®ú VÉ¤É +É{É +ºÉä¨¤É±ÉÒ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ{±ÉÒ¨ÉäÆ]õ®úÒ ¤ÉVÉ]õ ±ÉäEò®ú xÉ½þÒÆ +É ®ú½þä, BEºÉäºÉ ¡òÆbºÉ Eòä ºÉ´ÉÉ±É EòÉä ±ÉäEò®ú xÉ½þÒÆ +É ®ú½þä, Article 203 , 204 and 205 are transgressed. Is that not a breakdown of the Constitution? Or is it upholding the sanctity of the Constitution? That is the question one has to settle. ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú ªÉ½þ ¤ÉiÉÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ÊEò BEò ´É¹ÉÇ EòÉ EòÉªÉÇ, =ºÉEòÉ ¡òÉ<xÉäÆÊ¶ÉªÉ±É EòÉªÉÇ ÊEòiÉxÉÉ ¤ÉÊgøªÉÉ ½þè, ÊEòiÉxÉä +SUôä føÆMÉ ºÉä SÉ±É ®ú½þÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ºÉ¨ÉÚSÉä nùä¶É EòÉä ªÉ½þ ¤ÉiÉÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ÊEò ´É½þÉÆ ºÉ¤É EòÖUô `öÒEò ½þè, <ºÉÊ±ÉB EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ vÉ¨ÉÇ ½þè ÊEò <ºÉ vÉÉÊ¨ÉÇEò EòÉ¨É EòÉä ¤Éc÷Ò ¨ÉVÉ¤ÉÚiÉÒ ºÉä SÉ±ÉÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB ¨ÉÉèEòÉ ÊnùªÉÉ VÉÉªÉä* ½þ¨É ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòèºÉä MÉ±ÉiÉ ½þè, +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉ ÊEòºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú EòÒ xÉÒÊiÉ EòÉä +{ÉxÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, +É{É Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ±ÉÚ]õ EòÉä SÉ±ÉÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB EòèºÉä UôÉäc÷ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, ½þ¨É ªÉ½þ nùäJÉEò®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä ¤ÉiÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉä ½þèÆ* SHRI CHANDRA SHEKHAR : I want to ask a question. Are we going to base our judgement in Parliament on the verdict of the High Court, which can be changed by the Supreme Court? And in how many cases have the Judges given dicta statements? Is Parliament going to be guided by them?

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: I am not going to talk about it.

SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER : I will ask one question. Have you imposed the Presidential rule on this basis? If so, place the Report here. If you have imposed the Presidential rule on this basis, on the basis of what you have said, then place it on the Table of the House.

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: I am not discussing it here. I will not bring the President into this.

SHRI P. SHIV SHANKER : Do not digress from the subject. Do not digress. The question is straight; give a straight answer. ¸ÉÒ VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇhb÷ÒWÉ : +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ +Éè®ú ºÉ¨ÉªÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ±ÉäxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ* I am finishing. +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ nùÉä-iÉÒxÉ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ ®úJÉEò®ú +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉä ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ Eò°üÆMÉÉ* MR. SPEAKER: He is concluding.

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: +¦ÉÒ +É{ÉEòÉä ÊSÉxiÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ EòèºÉä ¤ÉÉä±É ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ, =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉEòÉä {É®úä¶ÉÉxÉÒ lÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ `öÒEò xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÚÆ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä ¤É½þÖiÉ {É®úä¶ÉÉxÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB, EªÉÉäÆÊEò +ÉVÉ ½þ¨É VÉ¨Éä xÉ½þÒÆ ½þèÆ, <ºÉÊ±ÉB +É{ÉEòÉä {É®úä¶ÉÉxÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* ¨ÉèÆ VªÉÉnùÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ±ÉäxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ, ¨ÉèÆ nùÉä-iÉÒxÉ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* EòÉÆOÉäºÉÒ xÉÒÊiÉ Eòä VÉÉä =nùÉ½þ®úhÉ ½þèÆ, <ºÉ xÉÒÊiÉ ¨ÉäÆ, =xÉEòä <ºÉ =nùÉ½þ®úhÉ ¨ÉäÆ ÊEòºÉÒ ¦ÉÒ |ÉEòÉ®ú Eòä ¨ÉÚ±ªÉÉäÆ ºÉä =ºÉEòÉ ºÉ¨¤ÉxvÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè +Éè®ú =ºÉEòÉ =nùÉ½þ®úhÉ +MÉ®ú SÉÉ½þäÆ iÉÉä ½þ¨É +ÉVÉ Eòä ÊnùxÉ ªÉ½þ ¤ÉiÉÉ ºÉEòiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä VÉ¤É +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ Eò½þÒÆ iÉÉä ½þ¨ÉxÉä ºÉÉäSÉÉ lÉÉ ÊEò ´Éä <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉä Eò½þÒÆ xÉ Eò½þÒÆ ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉä ±ÉÉBÆMÉÒ* =c÷ÒºÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ BEò EòÉ¨É ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ, ´É½þÉÆ iÉÒxÉ ±ÉÉäMÉ ¨ÉÉ®úä MÉªÉä, ´Éä <ÇºÉÉ<Ç lÉä* =xÉ¨ÉäÆ BEò ¤ÉÉ{É +Éè®ú nùÉä ¤Éä]õä lÉä* =xÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉ +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä xÉ½þÒÆ Eò½þÉ, EªÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä ÊEòªÉÉ, {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ¦ÉÒiÉ®ú, {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ¤ÉÉ½þ®ú +Éè®ú ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ* +ÉVÉ =ºÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ SÉSÉÉÇ ½þè, VÉ½þÉÆ iÉÒxÉ xÉ½þÒÆ, VÉ½þÉÆ ½þ®ú ÊnùxÉ ±ÉÉäMÉ ¨ÉÉ®úä VÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* Ê{ÉUô±Éä ¨É½þÒxÉä ¦É®ú ºÉä ´É½þÉÆ iÉÒxÉ ¤Éc÷ä EòÉhb÷ ½þÉä MÉªÉä* BEò {ÉÚÊhÉÇªÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú nùÉä ªÉ½þÉÆ VÉ½þÉxÉÉ¤ÉÉnù ¨ÉäÆ ½þÉä MÉªÉä, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú EòÉä<Ç VÉÉEò®ú +É MÉ<ÇÆ iÉÉä ´É½þÉÆ {É®ú EòÉ¨É ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ* VÉ¤É +ÉVÉ ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú SÉSÉÉÇ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þè iÉÉä ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÉä ªÉÉnù Ênù±ÉÉ>ðÆ ÊEò £òÉÆºÉ EòÉ BEò ±ÉäJÉEò, {ÉjÉEòÉ®ú ½þè, VÉÉä Ênù±±ÉÒ ¨ÉäÆ ®ú½þiÉÉ ½þè* ±ÉÉì Ê¡òEòÉ®úÉä +JÉ¤ÉÉ®ú EòÉ ´É½þ ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú EòÉä®úºÉ{ÉÉäÆb÷äÆ]õ ½þè* =x½þÉäÆxÉä BEò ¤É½þÖiÉ ¤ÉÊgøªÉÉ ±ÉäJÉ Ê±ÉJÉÉ, ÊVÉºÉ ±ÉäJÉ EòÉä +ÉVÉ ªÉÚ®úÉä{É Eòä +xÉäEò ±ÉÉäMÉ +ÉVÉ <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* =ºÉ ±ÉäJÉ ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þÉ ÊEò +VÉÒ¤É Ê½þxnùÖºiÉÉxÉÒ ±ÉÉäMÉ ½þèÆ, VÉ½þÉÆ iÉÒxÉ <ÇºÉÉ<Ç ¨ÉÉ®úä VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä nùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ JÉÚ¤É ½þÆMÉÉ¨ÉÉ Eò®úÉiÉä ½þèÆ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ nùÊ±ÉiÉ ¨ÉÉ®úä VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ, MÉ®úÒ¤É ¨ÉÉ®úä VÉÉiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä EòÉä<Ç ¦ÉÒ ÊSÉ±±ÉÉxÉä EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ½þÉä ½þÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ®ú½þÒ ½þè, ªÉä +VÉÒ¤É Ê½þxnùÖºiÉÉxÉÒ ±ÉÉäMÉ ½þèÆ* ªÉ½þ £òÉÆºÉ Eòä Ê¡òEòÉ®úÉä Eòä EòÉä®úºÉ{ÉÉäÆb÷äÆ]õ EòÉ Ê½þxnùÖºiÉÉxÉ ]õÉ<¨ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ Ê±ÉJÉÉ ½þÖ+É ±ÉäJÉ ½þè*

18.00 hrs. +ÉVÉ nùÖÊxÉªÉÉ¦É®ú ¨ÉäÆ =ºÉ ±ÉäJÉ EòÒ SÉSÉÉÇ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä VÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò +É{ÉEòÉä <xÉ SÉÒVÉÉäÆ EòÒ ÊSÉÆiÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, EòÉä<Ç {É®ú´ÉÉ½þ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* THE MINISTER OF POWER, MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF NON-CONVENTIONAL ENERGY SOURCES (SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM): I am sorry to interrupt at the moment. Since the House would normally rise at 6 o' clock, as it is my normal duty as a Parliamentary Affairs Minister, may I seek through you from the House that we sit up to 8 p.m. at least and we would have voting after that? (Interruptions) I also wish to announce that dinner will be available for Members of Parliament, members in the Press and the staff from 8 p.m onwards. I know that there would be a little more extension. At the first instance, if we finish by 8 o' clock, there is no problem. But free dinner will be available.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Is it up to 7 o' clock? That means only one hour.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Is it the sense of the House to extend the time of the House by one hour?

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: All right. It is up to 7 o' clock.

SHRI GEORGE FERNANDES: I will conclude exactly in two minutes' time. (Interruptions)

SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM: I have no problem from my side. But I must bring it to the notice of the House that we have no problem from the side of the BJP.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: It is because there are other Members also to speak.

DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY (VISAKHAPATNAM): There may be hundreds of speakers. It is not possible.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Please take your seats.

... (Interruptions)

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav, there are 10 speakers.

SHRI SHARAD PAWAR (BARAMATI): Mr. Speaker, Sir, one has to think about the timings. If the Samta Party got the strength of 11, accordingly they should get time. If they are going to speak for hours, I do not think it is possible to finish. We will agree only for one hour. (Interruptions)

SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM: I must point out this. What the hon. Leader of the Opposition has forgotten, I think, is that Shri George Fernandes was not called in his capacity as Member of the Samta Party. He was a representative of the Government who was seeking to intervene. (Interruptions) If you ask the Leader of the Opposition to find out even for himself that how much time did his good colleagues, both Shri Lalu Prasad and Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav, take, he will have to answer that.

AN HON. MEMBER: Each took one-and-a-half hour.

MR. SPEAKER: First we will extend the time of the House by one hour. ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ ªÉÉnù´É: ½þ¨É 17 ºÉÉÆºÉnù ½þèÆ, ½þ¨É xÉäiÉÉ ½þèÆ, ªÉä ¨ÉÆjÉÒ ½þèÆ* xÉäiÉÉ ¤Éc÷É ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè* ¸ÉÒ VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ): +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ nùÉä ´ÉÉEªÉ Eò½þEò®ú +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ Eò°üÆMÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆxÉä +¦ÉÒ ªÉ½þ Eò½þÉ ÊEò EòÉÆOÉäºÉ ºÉä ½þ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉºÉä +ÊvÉEò +{ÉäIÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè ÊEò iÉÒxÉ Ê´ÉnùäÊ¶ÉªÉÉäÆ EòÒ VÉÉxÉÉäÆ Eòä >ð{É®ú +ÉÆºÉÚ ¤É½þÉB +Éè®ú nùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú EòÒ ½þiªÉÉBÆ ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þèÆ, Ê´É¶Éä¹ÉEò®ú nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ {É®ú VÉ¤É <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú Eòä ½þ¨É±Éä ½þÉäiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ´É½þ =iÉxÉÒ ÊSÉÆÊiÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* <ºÉEòä {ÉÒUôä EòÉ®úhÉ ½þè* +É{ÉEòÉä <xºÉÉxÉ EòÒ VÉÉxÉ EòÒ ÊSÉÆiÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, EªÉÉäÆÊEò ÊVÉºÉ nù±É xÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ®ú½þiÉä ½þÖB, 15 ºÉÉ±É {É½þ±Éä Ênù±±ÉÒ EòÒ ºÉc÷EòÉäÆ {É®ú ÊEòiÉxÉä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÒ ±ÉÉ¶ÉäÆ ÊMÉ®úÉ<ÇÆ lÉÒÆ, =xÉºÉä EòèºÉä +É{É ªÉ½þ =¨¨ÉÒnù Eò®úäÆMÉä ÊEò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ MÉ®úÒ¤ÉÉäÆ EòÒ VÉÉxÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ =xÉEòä ¨ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ®ú½þ¨É EòÒ EòÉä<Ç ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ +ÉB, ªÉ½þ ½þ¨É VÉÉxÉiÉä ½þèÆ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉèÆ =xÉ nù±ÉÉäÆ Eòä xÉäiÉÉ+ÉäÆ ºÉä |ÉÉlÉÇxÉÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ iÉä±ÉÖMÉÚ nùä¶É¨É ºÉä, xÉä¶ÉxÉ±É EòÉÆ£òäÆºÉ ºÉä, Eòä®ú±É, ´Éèº]õ ¤ÉÆMÉÉ±É +Éè®ú iÉÊ¨É±ÉxÉÉb÷Ú +ÉÊnù |Énùä¶ÉÉäÆ Eòä nù±ÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉÆºÉnùÉäÆ ºÉä +Éè®ú xÉäiÉÉ+ÉäÆ ºÉä +{ÉÒ±É Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÒ ºÉ¤ÉºÉä +ÊvÉEò {É®úä¶ÉÉxÉÒ +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä ZÉä±ÉÒ ½þè* ªÉ½þ ½þ¨É xÉ½þÒÆ ¦ÉÚ±É ºÉEòiÉä ÊEò 1956-57 ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ¤ÉºÉä {É½þ±Éä <ºÉ vÉÉ®úÉ EòÉ <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É Eòä®ú±É ¨ÉäÆ ½þÖ+É lÉÉ +Éè®ú ´É½þ <ºÉÊ±ÉB ½þÖ+É lÉÉ ÊEò Eò¨ªÉÖÊxÉº]õÉäÆ EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ SÉ±ÉxÉä nùäxÉÒ ½þè* Eò<Ç ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÒ* Eòä´É±É Eò¨ªÉÖÊxÉº]õÉäÆ EòÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú SÉ±ÉÉxÉä xÉ½þÒÆ nùäxÉÒ +Éè®ú ¤ÉÆMÉÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉxÉä ÊEòiÉxÉÉ nù¨ÉxÉ SÉ±ÉÉªÉÉ lÉÉ, ´É½þ ¤ÉÆMÉÉ±É Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉ VÉÉxÉiÉä ½þèÆ* ¨ÉÉEòÇºÉ´ÉÉnùÒ Eò¨ªÉÖÊxÉº]õ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä xÉäiÉÉ VÉÉxÉiÉä ½þèÆ, SÉÚÆÊEò BäºÉä ´ÉEiÉ {É®ú ½þ¨É =xÉEòä ºÉÉlÉ JÉc÷ä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú ¦ÉÊ´É¹ªÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ =xÉEòä ºÉÉlÉ JÉc÷ä ®ú½þäÆMÉä VÉ¤É ¦ÉÒ BäºÉÒ {ÉÊ®úÊºlÉÊiÉ +ÉBMÉÒ* ½þ¨É VÉÉxÉiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò {ÉÆVÉÉ¤É Eòä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä ÊEòiÉxÉÉ ºÉ½þxÉ Eò®úxÉÉ {Éc÷É ½þè* SÉÚÆÊEò +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä BEò EòºÉ¨É JÉÉ<Ç lÉÒ ÊEò ÊEòºÉÒ ¦ÉÒ ºÉÚ®úiÉ ¨ÉäÆ +EòÉÊ±ÉªÉÉäÆ EòÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¤ÉxÉÉxÉä xÉ½þÒÆ nùäxÉÒ ½þè +Éè®ú =ºÉEòä iÉ½þiÉ VÉ¤É ¦ÉÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¤ÉxÉÒ iÉÉä =x½þäÆ EªÉÉ-EªÉÉ ZÉä±ÉxÉÉ {Éc÷É lÉÉ* ¡òÉ¯ûJÉ ºÉÉ½þ¤É xÉä VÉ¤É ½þ¨ÉäÆ 356 {É®ú ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¦ÉÚÊ¨ÉEòÉ EòÒ ªÉÉnù Ênù±ÉÉ<Ç iÉÉä ¨ÉèÆxÉä ªÉ½þ Eò½þÉ ÊEò +ÉVÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä ±ÉÉäMÉ ½þèÆ, ´Éä BäºÉä ±ÉÉäMÉ ½þèÆ VÉ¤É 356 Eò¶¨ÉÒ®ú {É®ú ±ÉMÉÉ lÉÉ, +ÉxwÉ {É®ú ±ÉMÉÉ lÉÉ iÉÉä +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ JÉc÷ä ½þÉäEò®ú +É{ÉEòä ºÉÉlÉ ±Éc÷É<Ç ±Éc÷xÉä EòÉ EòÉ¨É ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ* +ÉVÉ ´Éä ±ÉÉäMÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ½þèÆ, ´Éä ÊEòºÉÒ ºÉÚ®úiÉ ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉ EòÉ¨É EòÉä xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®ú ºÉEòiÉä* ÊVÉxÉ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä VÉÒ´ÉxÉ ¦É®ú ªÉ½þ EòÉ¨É ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ¦ÉÊ´É¹ªÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ ´ÉSÉxÉ nùäEò®ú ªÉ½þÉÆ ¤Éè`öä ½þèÆ, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ½þ¨É SÉÉ½þäÆMÉä ÊEò <ºÉ ¡òèºÉ±Éä {É®ú VÉ¤É ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉ {É½þÖÆSÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ iÉ¤É ºÉ¤ÉEòÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ <ºÉ {É®ú ¤Éc÷ä ºÉÉäSÉ-Ê´ÉSÉÉ®ú Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* ¨ÉèÆ +ÉÊJÉ®úÒ ¶É¤nù MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þÚÆMÉÉ* <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ Eòä ¦ÉÒiÉ®ú +Éè®ú ºÉnùxÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ½þ®ú BEò ¤ÉÉiÉ ¤ÉiÉÉ<Ç MÉ<Ç ÊEò ´É½þ +É®ú.BºÉ.BºÉ. .Eòä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú =x½þÉäÆxÉä ªÉ½þ Eò½þÉ ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨ÉäÆ MÉ´ÉÇ ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨É +É®ú.BºÉ.BºÉ. Eòä ½þèÆ* +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +É{É iÉä±ÉMÉÖnùä¶É¨É Eòä ½þèÆ, <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ Eòä +vªÉIÉ ½þèÆ* <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ Eòä ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ Eòä ½þèÆ* EªÉÉ nù±É Eòä ºÉÉlÉ +É{ÉEòÉ VÉÉä Ê®ú¶iÉÉ ½þè, ´É½þ Ê®ú¶iÉÉ +Éè®ú <ºÉ {Énù {É®ú ¤Éè`öEò®ú VÉ¤É +É{É EòÉ¨É Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä iÉÉä nùÉÊªÉi´É +Éè®ú ÊVÉ¨¨ÉänùÉ®úÒ ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉ EòÉä<Ç ]õEò®úÉ´É ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þè? <ºÉÊ±ÉB +MÉ®ú ½þ¨É¨ÉäÆ ºÉä ½þ®ú ´ªÉÊEiÉ EòÉä +{ÉxÉä-+{ÉxÉä nù±É Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ MÉ´ÉÇ ½þè +Éè®ú +MÉ®ú ºÉÉä¨ÉxÉÉlÉ ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÚ EòÉä VÉ¨¨ÉÚ Eò¶¨ÉÒ®ú EòÉ MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú ¤ÉxÉÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú ´É½þÉÆ BªÉ®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ {É®ú =iÉ®úiÉä ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ªÉÊnù =xÉºÉä {ÉÚUôÉ VÉÉB ÊEò +É{É Eò¨ªÉÖÊxÉº]õ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ½þèÆ, +É{É MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú Eòä ®úÉVÉ ¦É´ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ EòèºÉä ¤Éè`öxÉä ´ÉÉ±Éä ½þèÆ iÉÉä EªÉÉ ´Éä ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆMÉä ÊEò ¨ÉÖZÉä ¶É¨ÉÇ +ÉiÉÒ ½þè ÊEò ¨ÉèÆ Eò¨ªÉÖÊxÉº]õ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ ½þÚÆ* ´É½þ ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆMÉä ÊEò ¨ÉÖZÉä MÉ´ÉÇ ½þè ÊEò ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉEòÇºÉ´ÉÉnùÒ Eò¨ªÉÖÊxÉº]õ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ ½þÚÆ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ªÉ½þÉÆ EòÉ MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú ½þÚÆ +Éè®ú MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú Eòä nùÉÊªÉi´É EòÉä ÊxÉ¦ÉÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨Éä®úÒ |ÉÉlÉÇxÉÉ ½þè ÊEò EòÉÆº]õÒ]ªÉÚ¶ÉxÉ±É +ÉìlÉÉäÊ®ú]õÒ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ ÊVÉ¨¨ÉänùÉ®ú ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÒ VÉÖ¤ÉÉxÉ ºÉä xÉ +ÉB* <x½þÒÆ ¶É¤nùÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þÖB +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* SHRI S.S. PALANIMANICKAM* (THANJAVUR): Hon'ble Speaker Sir, I would like to speak against the imposition of President's Rule in Bihar misusing article 356 of the Constitution and I speak on behalf of Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam which has been ceaselessly endeavouring to scrap this article from our Constitution.

In the comity of Nations, not a single State that professes Federalism or Parliamentary Democracy has got this Constitutional provision to remove a Government from a State or a province. Only in India we find this article 356 that can remove a popular Government. This has come as a gift from our Constituent Assembly to the people of India who strived to win freedom for our country. The reasons for which the article was conceived are no longer alive. I am proud to point out that our party Dravida Munnetra Kazhagam has always raised its voice against this proviso of the Constitution in this august forum.

Our esteemed colleague Mr Sedapatti Muthiah in his intervention had quoted our Parliament Group Leader Hon. Murasoli Maran's speech made in the upper house of Parliament as early as in 1980. Mr Muthiah had merely quoted the first part of the point made to suit his ends while ignoring the relevant point made in the same speech. Our leader Hon. Murasoli Maran had stated that the party in power at the Centre shall always resort to the exercise of this article to dismiss Governments in the States. Even Gandhi may be tempted to make use of this provision. Hence there is a need to scrap once and for all this article from our Constitution. That is what our leader emphatically stated in the other House in 1980 reiterating our point to do away with this article 356. You must note that we have always been against the exercise of this article 356....(Interruptions)...

I would not like to go into the question of the resignation by our colleague Mr. Sedapatti Muthiah from the Union Council of Ministers as part of a purging process to ensure probity in public life. Was it renunciation of power for a pilgrimage? The people of Tamil Nadu are well aware of his character and antecedents. Let me come to the core question of this debate. This is for the 113th time this article 356 has been exercised. I think there is no State that has been spared from the ambit of this article. Several States have been put under the President's Rule one time or the other all these years in the free-India. What was the view held by Dr B.R. Ambedkar, the architect of our Constitution and the one who played a prominent role as a Member of the Constituent Assembly? He had accepted this provision with a heavy heart and he preferred to have it enshrined in the Constitution merely as a dead letter. He emphasised that these emergency provisions should not be resorted to. But unfortunately this had been exercised 113 times so far. While participating in the discussion in the Constituent Assembly and during the adoption of this provision in our Constitution. Shri H.V. Kamath stated that that was a sad and shameful a day. He also prayed that God alone could save the people of India. He pointed out that an article of this kind could not be found in the Constitution of any Federal or Democratic State. He disassociated himself from the incorporation of this article in our Constitution. He added that it nullified the minimum of State autonomy that was in the Constitutional scheme of things. He went on to pray that God alone could give the needed wisdom to the members of that Assembly to understand the deviousness and criminality of that step. Even Sardar Patel who brought all the princely States under one Nation-State expressed his considered opinion that article 356 do not fit into our Democratic Republic's Constitution.

*Original in Tamil.

When Gopichand Bhargava's Government in Punjab was dismissed for the first time in 1951, Prof N.G. Ranga said that article 356 should not have been exercised to punish a State Government which had a justifiable difference of opinion with the Centre. While commenting on the same Shri P.S. Deshmukh observed that it would be setting a dangerous precedence to dismiss a Government which enjoyed majority support in the Legislative Assembly. While referring to it Pandit Thakur Das asked whether we fought for freedom if only to usher in a dictatorial regime.

In the year 1953 when the United Front of the opposition parties came forward to form a Government in the then State of PEPSU, article 356 was exercised to prevent them from providing a Government. Dr Ambedkar who was then in the opposition stated, "It is the most violent kind of rape on the Constitution."

In Kerala, the undivided Communist Party won a majority in the 1957 General Elections. Dr Rajendra Prasad, the then President of India referred to it as a great test to our Indian Democracy. Only from then on the practice of showing law and order problem as a cause for dismissal began. With a view to pull down a democratically elected State Government they started singing the chorus that law and order was bad. What did the Governor's report say in its recommendation to the President of India who considered the formation of that Government a great experiment in Indian Democracy. The first reason the Governor cited was that the State Government had lost the support of the people. The second reason attributed was that the people of the State had an attitudinal change towards that Government. The third reason forwarded was that the sentiments of the people could not be ignored. Hence the report recommended the dissolution of Kerala Assembly and the dismissal of the Government in that State.

Ever since that, these very same reasons are referred to in almost all the Governor's report sent for dismissing Governments. This methodical or mechanical way of exercising article 356 have been done in the same fashion during all the 113 dismissals. The Governor's have been signing on the dotted lines of the already available format.

18.13 hrs (Shri Basudeb Acharia in the Chair) Today we find that the Bihar Government has been dismissed on the ground that law and order failed miserably. They also say that it was a Government against the Dalits. But I would like to point out that the Bihar Government was dismissed because of the political vengeful attitude of the ruling party at the Centre held against the State Government.

In 1997, when the Centre initiated action to topple the Government in Uttar Pradesh, our leader Hon. Murasoli Maran who was in the Union Cabinet prevailed upon them to desist from dismissing that Government. Our Home Minister Shri L.K. Advani appreciated that stand saying that it was 'Constitutional uprighteousness'. For the first time a welcome trend of sending back such dismissal recommendations of a duly elected State Government was set in 1997. The BJP which welcomed the rejection of such recommendation has changed its stand now. It is unfortunate.

At the same time we find in this House a new dimention added to this ever continuing debate on exercising article 356. Many of the regional parties and smaller parties that have always stood against the imposition of President's rule in the States and sacrificed a lot to ensure the scrapping of article 356 are surprisingly supporting the move of the Centre today. Another quirk of event is that a major party which had always relied too heavily on article 356 is also opposing the move now. We have to welcome a healthy debate on these issues.

The Supreme Court's judgement in S.R. Bommai's case have changed our outlook and our interpretation of the Constitution. It is no more an easy thing to dismiss a Government. No Governor can easily take recourse to this method. Courts of law can now intervene. They must stand the scrutiny of the judiciary. If it is not ratified within a time-frame by the Parliament, then the dissolved Legislative Assembly could resurrect on its own and the Government that was removed could be restored. Some who have pointed out this are contended with certain safeguards and few amendments to this draconian article 356.

As far as DMK is concerned we strongly feel that this is dangerous weapon that is most often misused. Whoever lay their hands on it are tempted to use it improperly. We want to emphasise that article 356 should go once and for all.

Inter-State Council's Sub-Committee comprising of Chief Ministers like Shri Bhairon Singh Shekhawat of Rajasthan, Hon. Mahanta of Assam, Hon. Chandrababu Naidu of Andhra Pradesh, Shri Manohar Joshi of Maharashtra and the then Union Industries Minister Hon. Murasoli Maran who sound-echoed the views of Tamil Nadu, collectively gave a clarion call to remove article 356. I would like to bring to the notice of this august House that they all wanted to put an end to the misuse of this article.

When the electorate of any State cast their vote in any general election, they exercise their franchise on separate ballots one for the Lok Sabha and another one for the State Assembly. No voter gives a mandate to any Member of Parliament to dismiss a duly elected State Government. They don't authorise the Central Government to subvert the Constitutional scheme of things. Central Government is not a master to lord over the States.

When there is an external aggression or an insurgency leading to an armed rebellion, the Central Government must rush the needed help to States that may face such problems. Redressal of grievances from the States should be the attitude. There cannot be a master-slave relationship and such attitude should be stemmed at least from now on. I wish the exercising of article 356 in Bihar should end as a last such move.

Reiterating again the need to scrap article 356 from our Constitution, I urge upon the Union Government to withdraw magnanimously the resolution it had moved in this august House about the imposition of President's Rule in Bihar.

I am expressing my stiff opposition to this resolution and I conclude my speech thanking the Chair for the opportunity.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR (MUMBAI NORTH-WEST): Mr. Chairman, Sir, though late, I have been called to participate in the discussion regarding imposition of Article 356 in the State of Bihar. Since yesterday, I have been quietly hearing the speeches of leaders of various parties. After listening to all the people, I fail to understand one thing. What are the allegations made for dislodging the Government and what is the discussion that we are having over here? That is very much important. Since this matter is pertaining to the State of Bihar, I thought, hon. Member, Shri Lalu Prasad, will, at least, try to answer the allegations levelled against the State of Bihar. But he has totally diverted the attention of Parliament and not even a single allegation has been replied by him. This is the most surprising thing, and yet what we are doing over here.

Mr. Chairman, Sir, there were occasions for me to visit Bihar. There are a number of occasions when I had been to Bihar. There I came across one or two incidents which I myself experienced. One such incident was also incorporated in the Twelfth Report of the Standing Committee on Labour and Welfare. When I visited that State, I enquired about whether the contents of the Committee Report have been taken into account or any corrective step has been taken by the State Government. But, I was informed that the State Government had not taken the cognizance of it.

I am reading the provision of that Standing Committee report. Shri Buta Singh is not there. Otherwise, he would ask me the citation.

"Lok Sabha Secretariat, New Delhi, April, 1995."

This is the 10th Lok Sabha 12th report.

"As regards misuse of hostel accommodation, the Committee have been informed by the Ministry that a hostel building at Sheohar in Bihar meant for SC students was being used by the Government of Bihar for housing their district headquarters."

This is the report. The building which was constructed for the SC students was occupied by the State Government. ¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù (¨ÉvÉä{ÉÖ®úÉ) : Êb÷ºÊ]ÅE]õ ¤ÉÉäÊ±ÉB* ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉvÉÖEò®ú ºÉ®ú{ÉÉäiÉnùÉ®ú : ªÉ½þ {É]õxÉÉ EòÉ ½þè* I will give you the report. You go through that. There is nothing wrong. If you want to ask the question, you can go through the book and thereafter, you can say that it is a hostel.

SHRI LALU PRASAD : You send it to Shri S. S. Bhandari Saheb.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Whatever you want to say, you can say. +É{ÉxÉä VÉ¤É ¦ÉÉ¹ÉhÉ ÊnùªÉÉ iÉÉä ¨ÉèÆxÉä +É{ÉEòÉä Ê¤É±EòÖ±É ¦ÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ]õÉäEòÉ* ¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù : +É{ÉxÉä ¨Éä®úÉ xÉÉ¨É Ê±ÉªÉÉ, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ ¤ÉÉä±ÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆxÉä ÊVÉ±ÉÉ {ÉÚUôÉ lÉÉ* ´É½þ +É{ÉEòÉä MÉ±ÉiÉ ÊnùªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè* SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : I have not said anything against anybody. What I am saying is regarding Bihar State. (Interruptions)

I quote from the report as follows: -

"The Committee are concerned to note the issue relating to misuse of Scheduled Caste Students Hostel by the Government of Bihar. They urge upon the Government to take up the issue at Minister's level and ensure that the hostel is allotted back to the Scheduled Caste students forthwith. The Committee would like to be informed of the progress made in this regard."

This is the report. Subsequently I visited that State. At that time also, the Chief Secretary of the State was Shri Verma. I asked him certain questions and he pleaded totally helpless. There were tears in his eyes when we examined him and he could not reply us satisfactorily. I was not alone. Along with me, there were other about 12 to 13 other MPs of various States and of various parties. This being the condition in the State, these people are claiming that they are supporting Dalits only.

My question is, the house which was built for SC students, why it was misused by the Government and why it was not allotted to the SC students. That is number one.

Number two is, I will ask the Congress people now. When the Leader of the Opposition spoke in the House, I was not present at that time. I was busy in some other meeting. But when I came back, I have heard two or three sentences, passing reference at the fag end of his speech. Those references are very important because whenever those people are coming forward and saying something about the Dalits, it means common people of this country who are the most sufferers of this country and for whom we are working over here. That is a very important point. I have been listening to each and everyone. Everyone talks about the common people, but not a single person has got any regard for the common people. What they are telling here is dirty politics and nothing beyond that. That is the unfortunate situation which is prevailing in this House which I have been observing since the last three years now. I will just read out those references and I quote: - ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉ Eòä Ê±ÉB nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉ <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É Eò®úxÉÉ `öÒEò xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* This was the sentence uttered by Shri Sharad Pawar, Leader of the Opposition.

Not only that. ®úÉVÉxÉèÊiÉEò ¡òÉªÉnùÉ =`öÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB ªÉ½þ VÉÉä Eònù¨É =`öÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ That is, the proclamation of Section 356 in the State of Bihar is not proper. In order to achieve political mileage, this decision has been taken. This is how some allegations have been made by the Leader of the Opposition in this House.

Luckily, just now Shri George Fernandes has clarified a number of points about the Congress party. I wanted to point out just one or two aspects. On one of the points referred to by Shri George Fernandes, I also have a personal experience.

We talk of Dr. Babasaheb Ambedkar very highly. When he was contesting the elections in 1952, I was working with him. Shri Narayanrao Kazrorkar was the candidate representing the Congress party. In one of the meetings stones were pelted by the Congress party workers. I was also injured in that incident. They are now saying that they are the best friends of the Dalits. The Congress is telling the people that they are very close to the Dalits and that without the Congress, the Dalits cannot progress.

The Congress has changed its stand today. Otherwise, what was their role which was amply described by Shri George Fernandes? I need not throw more light on that. I would like to ask a question. Shri Sharad Pawar said something about the Dalits. My question to him is this. In December, 1994, 115 Dalits were killed at Nagpur. I am sorry, Shri Shinde was not there at that time. But this Messiah of Dalits has never bothered to go and meet the people there. Today, they are posing as if they are the Messiahs of the Dalits, they are the only supporters of Dalits.

They now want to support Shri Mulayam Singh Yadav and Shri Lalu Prasad only because they also consider themselves as Messiahs of the Dalits, working for the poor people. If at all you are working for the Dalits and the poor people, then what is the condition prevailing in the State of Bihar? Who is answerable for that condition? One lady Member's husband had been killed and she was weeping yesterday. What is the condition of that family after the murder? Since the State was ruled by the RJD, was it not the responsibility of the RJD Government to investigate the matter thoroughly and arrest the persons who were concerned in that particular murder? Instead, the hon. Member of Parliament is weeping here, asking for help. I want to ask Shri Lalu Prasad and all his colleagues why necessary protection was not provided to the husband of that lady Member, who was himself a Minister in the State Government. What is the plight of her life today? What is the situation in which her family is placed? She was weeping yesterday, while leaving the House. It was really sad to see the tears of this Member of Parliament in this House itself. On top of that, they claim that they support the poor people.

Shrimati Rita Verma spoke here. She has cited a number of examples which Shri Lalu Prasad - he is not here - wanted to ridicule. I intend to ask Shri Lalu Prasad one question. When Shrimati Rita Verma approached him after the murder of her husband - yesterday, he has mentioned that she had been to his office - what help was rendered by the Government to Shrimati Rita Verma?

She was making all the allegations in the presence of Shri Lalu Prasad. Today the State Government of Bihar has become `Lalu Prasad Yadav-Rabri Devi Private Limited'. If you have got so much sympathy, love and regard for the dalits, then, ...

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : No, Sir. Then, I will sit down.

MR. CHAIRMAN: No. You may continue.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude.

two days, we have been sitting here. Members were allowed to speak for more than one hour each; and when I just started making some statements, immediately the Chair is asking me to conclude. If that is your desire, I will sit down.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have spoken for eleven minutes. Please conclude.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Sir, if you ask me to sit down, I will sit down. But my only request is that let me not be disturbed when I am making some arguments regarding this subject. Here, hon. Members have taken more than one hour. We have tolerated everything. We never raised our voice in the House against them. When we listened to all those things quietly, why should I be obstructed? That is my question.

I must congratulate Shri Indrajit Gupta who made such valuable points. I must appreciate him. When he was the hon. Home Minister, he tried to do all those things; and his expectation was that the present Home Minister should also undertake that exercise. Shri Indrajit Gupta, I would like to ask one question to you: why was your Government toppled twice? What were the reasons? Those people were supporting you; on the assurance of the Congress Party alone, the United Front Government was formed. But what had happened to that? Initially, Shri Devegowda was sent out. Why? What was his mistake? His mistake was that he was not listening to the Congress Party and the agenda that was forwarded by the Congress Party was not implemented. Those were the allegations made at that time, in the House itself. Thereafter, Shri I.K. Gujral became the Prime Minister. We never tried to see that the Government collapsed. We always extended our cooperation. At that time, we were having 15 Members; and at that time, either BJP or any of its allied parties never even attempted to see that the Government collapsed. Who was instrumental for that?

Everyone was asking me about the Srikrishna Commission's Report. Dr. Shakeel Ahmad, who is not present here now, was repeatedly taking the name of Balasaheb Thackerey. He was telling that he has been named as a criminal in the Srikrishna Commission's Report. I do not know whether he has gone through that Report or not; maybe, he would have seen that Report. I was one of the witnesses who appeared before that Commission. I know what is there in that Report and what Justice Srikrishna has said in that Report. We never said anything, but they are making allegations. It is only because they are doing a wrong thing -- supporting the RJD parties in Bihar now. This is not happening only today; but for years together, their history tells us.

I will not take much time of the House to explain on how many occasions they had proclaimed President's Rule, using the provisions of Article 356 of the Constitution. Shri Sharad Pawar is not here now. But in 1980, his Government was also thrown out. What was the reason? The only reason was that they had lost the elections miserably. Shri Sharad Pawar has totally forgotten. But I am having all the speeches that he made at that time, when he was in the Opposition. Shri Sushil Kumar Shinde must not have forgotten that. I think, he knows the history well -- what he was saying about the Congress Party, about Rajiv Gandhi and a number of other people. If I go on repeating all those things, he will understand what he had done in the past.

SHRI SUSHIL KUMAR SHINDE (SOLAPUR): We know each other's history well.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : I am proud. If you know my history, I am proud. If you want to point out anything on the floor of this House, you are welcome to do that. ... (Interruptions) Even about Shiv Sena, I am open to discussion; there is nothing wrong. ... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÉä½þxÉ ®úÉ´É±Éä (¨ÉÖ¨¤É<Ç nùÊIÉhÉ-¨ÉvªÉ) : +É{ÉxÉä ¦ÉÒ Ê¶É´É ºÉäxÉÉ |É¨ÉÖJÉ ¤ÉÉ±ÉÉºÉÉ½þä¤É `öÉEò®úä EòÉä ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ Eò½þEò®ú {ÉÖEòÉ®úÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : I am not going into all these things because there is no time. I thought the hon. Chairman would give me at least one hour to bring all these points as to what the Congress was doing when they were in the ruling party.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now. So many hon. Members would like to speak on this issue.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : What can I do for that? We cooperated with the Chair. We never interrupted. Many hon. Members were given a lot of time to speak on this issue. But when it is our turn to speak, we are not allowed.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please understand the constraint of time. Let us accommodate all.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : We never interrupted. Certain allegations were made against us. Shri Lalu Prasad spoke about Bihar. I would like to ask him as to what he has done for the people of Bihar and for the State of Bihar? He should have told the ten years' history of the State of Bihar as to what their Government has done for the people of the State. He should have given the history of the State of Bihar. Instead he has given the history of Congress rule. You were listening to it without even raising your voice. Shri Sushil Kumar Shinde is in-charge of Bihar.

SHRI SUSHIL KUMAR SHINDE : Sir, he has mentioned my name. So, give me time to speak.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Yesterday, Shri Lalu Prasad gave a big list as to how many dalits were killed during the Congress rule.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please address the Chair. +É{É Ê¶ÉÆnùä VÉÒ EòÉä ¤ÉÉä±É ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, +É{É <vÉ®ú ¤ÉÉäÊ±ÉªÉä* ½þ¨É VÉÉxÉiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò ´É½þ +É{ÉEòä nùÉäºiÉ ½þèÆ* ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉvÉÖEò®ú ºÉ®ú{ÉÉäiÉnùÉ®ú : +MÉ®ú =xÉEòÉä +É{ÉÊiiÉ ½þè iÉÉä ¨ÉèÆ +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ´ÉÉ{ÉºÉ ±Éä ±ÉäiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{É ½þÉ=ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ SÉäªÉ®ú EòÉä Bc÷èºÉ EòÒÊVÉB* SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Whenever we are given time we are not allowed to speak as openly as everyone else has done. ... (Interruptions) I am concluding.

MR. CHAIRMAN: You have already spoken for more than fifteen minutes.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : A number of things have been discussed in this House.

SHRI S. MALLIKARJUNIAH (TUMKUR): Sir, it is the duty of the Chair to give the hon. Member sufficient time so that he can express his views.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Kum. Mayawati was kind enough to explain in detail as to what the Congress and the RLM have done in the name of dalits. She has given the details. I am not going into the details. I do not have much knowledge about Bihar. From the developments which have been taking place in that State and from what I have been reading about this State, I feel that this is the fit case for imposition of President's rule. In principle, we are against the imposition of President's rule. When the Government headed by the late Namboodiribad was dismissed, we agitated against it. We said that it was an improper action. A number of hon. Members spoke about that.

In the NDC meeting, Chaired by Shri Indrajit Gupta, we said that article 356 should be retained with some modifications and we said that it should not be done away with. Action should be taken under this article when it is absolutely necessary. Shri George Fernandes explained many things. I am not going into those things.

My humble request to all the RJD Members is, if at all they want to say anything, they should reply to the queries raised by the Home Department and by the hon. Home Minister. Instead of diversifying the issue, they should come to the point. They should go before the people with open heart and establish that nobody else but they are the real messiahs of the poor.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Thank you, Shri Sirpotdar. The next Member is, Shri Premchandran.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : You are doing injustice to me. It is all right....(Interruptions) I would like to make only one point.

MR. CHAIRMAN: I have now called the next Member.

... (Interruptions) ºÉ¦ÉÉ{ÉÊiÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ¨ÉÉä½þxÉ ®úÉ´É±Éä VÉÒ +É{É ¤ÉÉnù ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÉä±É nùÒÊVÉBMÉÉ* ªÉ½þÉÆ VÉ´ÉÉ¤É nùäxÉä EòÒ VÉ°ü®úiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÉä½þxÉ ®úÉ´É±Éä : ºÉ®ú, ÊºÉ¡òÇ BEò {ÉÉ<Æ]õ EòÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ nùäxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉºÉä +xÉÖ®úÉävÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : Sir, they have unnecessarily attacked us. You have just now heard the figures given by Shri George Fernandes regarding the per capita output of the State of Maharashtra. Does it not show the performance of the State?

MR. CHAIRMAN: He has already replied. Please take your seat.

SHRI MADHUKAR SIRPOTDAR : They have said something about cricket also. I would like to mention that also.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Please take your seat. I have already called Shri Premchandran.

SHRI MOHAN RAWALE: Sir, he wanted to make only one point.

MR. CHAIRMAN: Because of constraint of time, I would request Members to be very brief.

SHRI N.K. PREMCHANDRAN (QUILON): Sir, I am the only speaker from my Party.

I strongly oppose the Resolution moved by the hon. Home Minister, seeking approval of this House regarding imposition of the President's Rule in Bihar.

Sir, the incident of imposition of the President's Rule in Bihar under Article 356, is an apt example of the blatant misuse of Article 356. This is well established in the House. This is the 101st time that this Article has been invoked and I would say that more than 90 times it had been misused. It is on record also. The recent proclamation, dated 12.2.1999, imposing the President's Rule in Bihar would show that it was only to wreck vengeance against the non-BJP ruled State. It is an unfettered and undemocratic provision in our Constitution.

The voting pattern of the last Parliamentary elections in 1997 for the 12th Lok Sabha goes to show that while the BJP got 23.5 per cent of the votes, the Ministry headed by Lalu Ji, headed by the RJD, got 26.29 per cent votes which means they have got six per cent votes in excess. Shri George Fernandes has argued the case on behalf of the Government. He has quoted C&AG Report and many other reports stating that there was mismanagement in the financial affairs of the State. I would like to say that all these matters were placed before the public in the last election but what was the result of it? The result was that in the last elections, the ruling front, that is RJD bagged six per cent more votes. This was the will of the people. What has happened now? A Government which was having a dominant majority in the Legislative Assembly was dismissed without any base. It is quite undemocratic. On hearing the case of Shri George Fernandes one could easily come to know that it was done not at all on the basis of the grounds put forth in the Governor's Report but it was done either under his pressure or it can be described as some other practice, as Shri Fernandes was vehemently arguing for it. What were the grounds stated in the Report, I would come to them later.

The first submission which I would like to make before the House is, it is the right time to discuss about the pertinence over the retention of Article 356 in our Constitution. Since it is an unfettered and undemocratic right or an extraordinary power conferred upon the Central Government which is against the federal principles of our Constitution, it is to be scrapped. This is my first submission.

Sir, secondly coming to Article 356, what are the main ingredients of Article 356? The Article 356 says:

"(1) If the President, on receipt of a report from the Governor of a State or otherwise, is satisfied that a situation has arisen in which the government of the State cannot be carried on in accordance with the provisions of this Constitution, the President may by Proclamation -

(a) assume to himself all or any of the functions of the Government of the State and all or any of the powers vested in or exercisable by the Governor or any body or authority in the State other than the Legislature of the State;

(b) declare that the powers of the Legislature of the State shall be exercisable by or under the authority of Parliament;..."

If the ingredient is that the Government cannot be moved or carried on in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution, no where it is stated in the report.

The ingredients have been again established in the Bommai case also. I would like to quote the observatory dictum of Justice Sawant in the Bommai case. Justice Sawant in his observation said:

"A situation of maladministration in a State where a duly constituted Ministry and enjoying majority support in the Assembly is in office, imposition of President's Rule in such a situation will be extraneous to the purpose for which the power under Article 356 has been conferred. It was made undoubtedly clear by the Constitution framers that this power is not meant to be exercised for the purpose of securing good governance."

What does it indicate? It indicates that Article 356 cannot be invoked to form an alternative or a better Government or for good governance of the State. It can be invoked only when there is a collapse of Constitutional machinery or insurgency or armed-rebellion. Considering the ingredients of Article 356 as also the elaborate discussion in Bommai case let us analyse the political position or the political scenario in Bihar situation.

Sir, I am now coming to the report. There are two reports. The first one is principal report and another one is the supplementary report, according to the Governor. The first report can be classified generally in four grounds. The main grounds which are set forth are four. I am not going into the details. The first ground is the law and order situation; second is the governance by proxy and abuse of power; third is the mishandling of flood situation in the State; and fourth is the non-conducting the Panchayat elections thereby the Constitutional obligation had not been complied with. When we have heard the arguments of Shri George Fernandes, it is seen that the grounds under which the Government is dismissed are not the grounds which are stated in the report. The grounds which are stated are extraneous. Regarding the financial management, on the basis of C&AG Report and on some other basis the Government is dismissed.

As far as the law and order situation is concerned, the Sarkaria Commission recommendation is very clear. It says that a Government cannot be dismissed or Article 356 can never be invoked on the basis of the law and order situation because it is absolutely a State subject.

If law and order situation is a criterion for invoking Article 356, where it has to be first exercised? Sir, I am having statistics regarding law and order situation in various States. I am not going into the details. The names of States which have higher percentage of crimes against Scheduled Castes and Scheduled Tribes during the last three years are mentioned. This is an Unstarred Question No.954 dated 2.6.1998. In the year 1995, the first three States which are having the highest number of crimes against Scheduled Castes are Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan and Madhya Pradesh. In regard to crimes against Scheduled Tribes, the first three States are Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Maharashtra. During 1996, they were Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh and Tamil Nadu. As regards crimes against Scheduled Tribes during 1996, they were Madhya Pradesh, Rajasthan, Gujarat and Maharashtra. During 1997, they were Uttar Pradesh, Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Andhra Pradesh and as far as crime against Scheduled Castes are concerned, they were Rajasthan, Madhya Pradesh, Gujarat and Andhra Pradesh. No where Bihar has come into the picture. So, if the law and order is the main criterion for invoking Article 356, then first it has to be invoked in the case of Gujarat.

Sir, we have seen brutal attacks on minorities. The yardstick which has been followed by the Government of India is different. It is different for the BJP ruled States vis-a-vis non-BJP ruled States. It is because two Central Government official teams had visited Gujarat as well as Bihar. In Bihar, they had visited the affected places, they had interaction with the people there. But as far as Gujarat is concerned, they had to visit the affected districts where the places of worship of the Christians were attacked and minorities were brutally attacked. They did not go to these places. They just sat in Gandhi Nagar, the State Capital of Gujarat and had a discussion with the Chief Minister, the Police Chief and the Chief Secretary and had submitted a report.

But as far as the case of Bihar is concerned, it is a deliberate intention to invoke Article 356 and they have prepared a report and submitted it here on behalf of the Governor. As far as other States are concerned, I would not go into the details of their law and order situation. I am not going into the details of the Report of the Sri Krishna Commission which is mentioned here. I would not go into what is going on in Maharashtra. I would not go into its details. In cricket also, the constitutional propriety of the country and all ethics and norms of the country have been challenged by an unconstitutional extraneous authority in the State. What action has been taken in that regard?

So, if the law and order situation is the criteria, then the Article has to be first invoked in some other States.

Regarding the other grounds, they failed to handle the flood situation and non-conducting of elections has already been enunciated. The report of the Governor which has been submitted here is on flimsy grounds.

I would like to submit one point regarding the proxy administration which is mentioned in Clause 'D' of the principal report. Shrimati Rabri Devi was the Chief Minister of Bihar and as per Article 163 of the Constitution, she, as the head of the Council of Ministers, has to aid and advise the Governor in exercise of his functions. Practically, her husband, Shri Lalu Prasad Yadav is the person who indeed functions and behaves like a de facto Chief Minister. He makes official pronouncements and the officials also take directions from him. Meetings continue to take place in his house. But the Governor forgot that Shri Lalu Prasad Yadav is also the President of the Rashtriya Janata Dal and political decisions are taken in political forum or in political party meetings. Sir, very flimsy grounds have been stated that Shri Lalu Prasad Yadav is an accused in the fodder scam and that he stays in the residence of the Chief Minister. It is said that he is staying in the Chief Minister's residence. Is it an allegation or a ground for invoking Article 356? So, flimsy and non-justifiable grounds have been stated in the report so as to invoke Article 356.

I have another constitutional point to make. What are the change of circumstances from 18th September to 11th February? The first principal report was submitted on 18th September. What are the change of circumstances? Nothing is there except the massacre of dalits in a particular district. That alone is the change of circumstances in these two reports. So, the report cannot be accepted and this has been done on the basis of political pressure.

As far as the Governor is concerned, I would not like to go into the details. It is quite surprising to know the statements made by the hon. Home Minister after the proclamation that a non-political person, an independent person, justifiable person has to be appointed as the Governor of the State. That vindicates the case of the Opposition. He has been appointed on a political capacity for a particular purpose to dismiss this Government or to get a favourable report from him. That case has been vindicated by the Government itself.

Regarding the allies, the Telugu Desam Party may be expecting a hot line fax message just like that of confidence motion. I would like to speak on the statement of the TDP after the proclamation questioning the veracity of the Government decision regarding Bihar. Shri Yerrannaidu, Leader of the Telugu Desam Party said like this in Lok Sabha. He said that he failed to understand as to how the attacks on dalits and other weaker sections would stop and the law and order situation would improve after the removal of the Rabri Devi Government. He asked whether the Union Government can give a guarantee that by imposing President's rule, such incidents will not take place. He has asked this question. This is the statement made by Shri Yerrannaidu. Is he going to support or abstain from this Motion? So, all these things go to show that the grounds which are said or set forth in the report which has been submitted here cannot be relied upon. It is done under political pressure and on political grounds.

MR. CHAIRMAN :Please conclude.

SHRI N.K. PREMCHANDRAN :This is Samata package. Jayalalitha package has already been done. Hon. Defence Minister had flown to Chennai several times and the result has also come.

THE MINISTER OF POWER, MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF NON-CONVENTIONAL ENERGY SOURCES (SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM): Sir, the time of the House has to be extended. Otherwise, he cannot speak and nothing will go on record. A number of small parties have not got the time to speak and they feel that they should participate in this important debate. Moreover, we also have to have a reply. We have withdrawn many of the names of our speakers. I would request that the larger parties may also do so.

19.00 hrs. Maybe, we could complete this within one hour and we could have the hon. Home Minister reply at about 7.40 p.m. so that we can close it by Eight of the Clock. I would be grateful if the House agrees to my proposal.

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): I agree to it provided all get a chance to speak. With this proviso, I agree to it.

SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM: It is for you that I was pleading...(Interruptions)

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Mr. Minister, you mentioned about the small parties. Which are the small parties?

SHRI P.R. KUMARAMANGALAM: All of you.

MR. CHAIRMAN : Is it the pleasure of the House that the time of the House be extended up to 8 p.m. SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: Yes.

MR. CHAIRMAN: All right, the time is extended up to 8 p.m. Shri Premachandran, now you please try to conclude.

SHRI N.K. PREMCHANDRAN: So, to satisfy the allies, just to meet the political needs that this has been done. So, once again, I would urge upon this House to scrap Article 356 and also recall the Governor forthwith.

1901 hours SHRI R.S. GAVAI (AMRAVATI): Mr. Chairman, Sir, at the outset, I would like to say that I oppose the Resolution moved by the Government for imposing President's Rule in Bihar. I want to confine myself very strictly to the relevance of the subject. My speech will be very brief.

At the outset, I must say that we are lucky that we have a legacy of Dr. Baba Sahib Ambedkar who is the founder President of the Republican Party of India and also the Chairman of the Drafting Committee of the Constitution. It is very much dear and near to be strictly committed to the constitutional philosophy of what he observed during the laborious work that he did in the framing of the Constitution of India.

Our hon. friend Shri George Fernandes is not here. Had he remained present, he would have corrected himself while quoting Dr. Baba Sahib Ambedkar. I am referring to the proceedings of the Constituent Assembly contained in page 168, para 6. I quote:

"Dr.B.R. Ambedkar, Chairman of the Drafting Committee, explained the purpose and nature of these provisions. Emphasising the need for caution and restraint in their application, he observed:-

"I do not altogether deny that there is a possibility of these articles being abused or employed for political purposes. But that objection applies to every part of the Constitution which gives power to the Centre to override the Provinces. In fact, I share the sentiments....that such articles will never be called into operation and that they would remain a dead letter."

I quoted the observations of Dr.B.R. Ambedkar made in the Constituent Assembly. While answering the debate on the rationale and purpose of Articles 355 and 356 he observed and I quote:

"The underlying principle and purpose of introducing Article 355 was explained by the Chairman of the Drafting Committee in the Constituent Assembly. It was stressed that our Constitution, notwithstanding that many of its provisions bestow overriding powers on the Centre, nonetheless gives, on the federal principle, plenary authority to the Provinces to make laws and administer the same in the field assigned to them.

"That being so, if the Centre is to interfere in the administration of the provincial affairs, it must be, by and under some obligation which the Constitution imposes upon the Centre. It was emphasised that the `invasion' by the Centre of the provincial field "must not be an invasion which is wanton, arbitrary and unauthorised by the law.""

The next quotation says:

"The Constitution framers recognised that the provision of Article 355 and 356 were necessary to meet an exceptional situation where break-down of the Constitutional machinery occurs in a State. At the same time, they hoped for the growth of healthy conventions which would help ensure that these extraordinary powers were used most sparingly."

These are the three orbits of Article 356 of the Constitution. I do not feel that any other quotation, either this way or that way, is in the purview of the Motion and in the purview of the subject under discussion here.

Sir, I would just like to bring to your notice as to how the Sarkaria Commission has defined regarding the breakdown of the constitutional machinery. Justice Sarkaria described constitutional breakdown under the heads of political crisis, internal subversion, physical breakdown and non-compliance of constitutional directions of the Union Executive. Does it meet the decison of the Central Government to impose the President's Rule in Bihar? The reply would be `no' and from the President's response, it appears Rabri Devi Government was not given adequate warning and opportunity. This is a lacuna in the Centre's case against Bihar.

Sir, I do not want to go into the mertis of the quotions made here, either from this side or that side. The atrocities committed on the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes are a routine phenomenon these days. All political parties condemn the atrocities committeed on the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. But when they come to power either in the States or at the Centre, the fate of the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes remains the same.

Sir, we always condemn the atrocities committed on the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. But are the political parties which have the opportunity to rule either in the States or at the Centre devoted to the spirit of the Constitution? The evil of untouchability remains even now, but there is a statute to remove untouchability. So, it is not a monopoly relating to the political parties. It shows that we have no desire to have social justice or social commitment. We, as the Republicans, very strongly condemn the atrocities that are committed in Bihar and wherever there is an atrocity on the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes, we condemn it.

Sir, there is a saying that the piece of ice, in a glass of water, remains one-fourth above the water and three-fourth down below. We should see as to what is the origin for atrocities on the Scheduled Castes and the Scheduled Tribes. What is the perennial source? Who are behind them? Those victimised persons belonging to the Scheduled Castes follow Laluji in Bihar, because he has sympathy for them. But those who have committed the atrocities on the Scheduled Castes, the Ranvir Sena, are being supported by the reactionary forces.

Sir, how can we support this Resolution for imposition of President's rule? If we do not support it, that would mean we are encouraging such Governments. The Governor there is a committed RSS man. I have nothing to say against him. If we support the President's rule there, that means we are inviting more trouble, more atrocities. So, on both counts of the Constitutional philosophy, we are the sufferers. The rest of the things are immaterial for us. We are here to safeguard the Constitutional obligations. I have been a politician representing a particular political party. Unfortunately or fortunately, I belong to a backward class. That is my fate. Ultimately for the sake of justice, I have to fight it out.

In this case, if I support the Resolution for imposition of President's rule, it does mean inviting more atrocities towards backward classes and the Scheduled Castes.

With these few words, I thank you very much.

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ (BARAMULLA): Mr. Chairman, Sir, I must say that the Government should be given credit where it earns that credit and can have the credit genuinely. On behalf of me and on behalf of my Party, the Prime Minister of India, Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee deserves appreciation for putting in strenuous efforts to organise harmony between India and Pakistan. I have convinced myself that Shri Ataal Bihari Vajpayee is very sincere in that effort. It is a very gigantic task. We all have been seeing what is being done in Kashmir from across the border through insurgency. In spite of that, he had put in a sizeable effort to start negotiations with Pakistan and he gave an impression that he is very serious in promoting that understanding.

There was another point of credit to Shri Atal Bihari Vajpayee. When the celebrations were going on in Lahore, he expressed anguish on behalf of his country that India would not tolerate the kind of situations that were created through massacres in Rajouri and Udhampur. 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(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI MOHAN SINGH (DEORIA): He is the Minister now. ...(Interruptions)

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ (BARAMULLA): He is the Minister now in his own right. He is a Member in his own right but I wanted to tell you ...(Interruptions) {É½þ±Éä ¨ÉÖZÉä ¤ÉiÉÉxÉä nùÒÊVÉB, +É{É +{ÉxÉä ´ÉEiÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉiÉÉ<B* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) SHRI MUFTI MOHAMMED SAYEED (ANANTNAG): You are misquoting the things. ...(Interruptions)

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ : I am not misquoting ...(Interruptions)

SHRI MUFTI MOHAMMED SAYEED (ANANTNAG): We never imposed Governor's Rule. Shri Farooq was removed by his own party. Ghulam Mohammad Shah was in revolt. His party was in revolt. We did not remove anybody. Why are you misquoting? ...(Interruptions) |ÉÉä. ºÉè¢òÖqÒxÉ ºÉÉäWÉ : +É{É ºÉ¨ÉZÉiÉä xÉ½þÒÆ ½þèÆ, +É{É ¤ÉèÊ`öB* +É{ÉEòÉ =xÉ SÉÒVÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ Eò¨É Ê½þººÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÉ, +É{É =ºÉ ºÉÉÊVÉ¶É ¨ÉäÆ ¶É®úÒEò lÉä* Later when you sent him for the second time, he let loose a reign of terror. ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÒ <±ÉÊ¨ÉªÉiÉ ¨ÉäÆ <WÉÉ¡òÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þÚÆMÉÉ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. CHAIRMAN : Please conclude now.

PROF. SAIFUDDIN SOZ (BARAMULLA): Sir, I have already told you that I will be very brief.

19.22 hrs (Mr. Deputy-Speaker in the Chair) ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÉä ªÉÉnù Ênù±ÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò +É{É EòÉÆOÉäºÉ Eòä EòiÉÉÇ-vÉiÉÉÇ ®ú½þä lÉä* +É{ÉEòÉä ªÉ½þ WÉä¤É xÉ½þÒÆ nùäiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ¡òÉ°üJÉ +¤nùÖ±±ÉÉ EòÉä +É{ÉEòÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ xÉä ½þ]õÉªÉÉ lÉÉ* +É{ÉxÉä Êb÷¡òäE¶ÉÆºÉ +ÉMÉÇxÉÉ<WÉ Eò®úÉB lÉä* VÉxÉÉ¤Éä ºÉnù®ú, ¨ÉÖ¡iÉÒ ºÉÉ½þ¤É xÉä <ºÉEòÉä {ÉgøÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäMÉÉ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ EòÉä nù®úJÉÉºiÉ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ¤ÉÉVÉÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ EòÉä<Ç ÊEòiÉÉ¤É <ºÉ ]õEEò®ú EòÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, VÉÉä ¤ÉÒ.Eòä. xÉä½þ°ü xÉä Ê±ÉJÉÒ ½þè* <ºÉEòÉ =xÉ´ÉÉxÉ ½þè- "

Nice guys finish second." <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ xÉä½þ°ü VÉÒ ¤ÉiÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ÊEò =x½þÉäÆxÉä +¤nùÖ±±ÉÉ VÉÒ EòÒ ½þÖEòÚ¨ÉiÉ EòÉä ¤ÉJÉÉÇºiÉ Eò®úxÉä ºÉä EªÉÉäÆ <xÉEòÉ®ú ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ +Éè®ú ÊEòºÉ iÉ®ú½þ ºÉä ªÉ½þÉÆ ºÉä =x½þäÆ ¤ÉJÉÉÇºiÉ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú ¦ÉäVÉÉ MÉªÉÉ* VÉ¤É ´É½þ ´ÉWÉÒ®úä+ÉWÉ¨É EòÒ EòÉä`öÒ ºÉä ÊxÉEò±É ®ú½þä lÉä iÉÉä VÉÉä ´É½þÉÆ VÉÉxÉ¶ÉÒxÉ VÉÉ ®ú½þä lÉä =xÉºÉä =x½þÉäÆxÉä {ÉÚUôÉ ÊEò EªÉÉ +É{É Eò¶¨ÉÒ®ú ¡òÉ°üJÉ EòÉä Êb÷ºÉÊ¨ÉºÉ Eò®úxÉä VÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ iÉÉä =ºÉEòÉ VÉ´ÉÉ¤É =x½þÉäÆxÉä iÉ¤ÉººÉÖ¨É ºÉä ÊnùªÉÉ lÉÉ* =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉnù +É{ÉxÉä nùäJÉÉ ÊEò Eò¶¨ÉÒ®ú ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉ ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ* Eò¶¨ÉÒ®ú ¨ÉäÆ =ºÉ ´ÉEiÉ 1984 ¨ÉäÆ VÉ´ÉÉxÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ÊxÉ®úÉ¶ÉÉ ¡òè±É MÉ<Ç, EòÉ¶¨ÉÒ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉ¨½þÚÊ®úªÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ +É ºÉEòiÉÒ ½þè* =ºÉ ´ÉEiÉ iÉEò =x½þÉäÆxÉä ½þÊlÉªÉÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ =`öÉB lÉä, VÉ¤É ÊxÉ®úÉ¶ÉÉ +É MÉ<Ç, =ºÉ ´ÉEiÉ iÉEò 20-30 ´É¹ÉÇ from across the border that country tried that Kashmir youth should accept Kalashnikov guns but they refused. <EEòÉ-nùÖEEòÉ Eò¦ÉÒ-Eò¦ÉÒ +ÉiÉÉ lÉÉ, ´É½þ ¨ÉÖ¡iÉÒ ºÉÉ½þ¤É EòÉä ¦ÉÒ {ÉiÉÉ ½þè* 1984 Eòä ¤ÉÉnù EòÉ¶¨ÉÒ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä iÉ¤ÉÉ½þÒ ½þÖ<Ç ´É½þ ÊºÉ¡òÇ vÉÉ®úÉ 356 ºÉä ½þÖ<Ç* <ºÉÊ±ÉB +ÉVÉ Eòä ÊnùxÉ ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÉä ªÉÉnù Ênù±ÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ, ¨ÉÖZÉä ªÉ½þ Eò½þxÉä ¨ÉäÆ EòÉä<Ç iÉÉ¨ÉÖ±É xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè ÊEò EòÉÆOÉäºÉ xÉä ¦ÉÒ ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ VÉ½þxÉ xÉ¶ÉÒxÉ EòÒ ½þÉäMÉÒ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉ ¨ÉÉèEòä {É®ú Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò VÉÉä MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú EòÉ <Æº]õÒ]ªÉÚ¶ÉxÉ ½þè, he has been rendered undemocratic. +É{É +ÆnùÉVÉÉ ±ÉMÉÉ<B* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) <±ÉèE¶ÉxÉ ºÉä MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ +ÉiÉÉ ½þè* ÊVÉºÉEòÒ EòÉä<Ç ÊVÉ¨¨ÉänùÉ®úÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, ´É½þ ±ÉÉJÉÉäÆ-Eò®úÉäc÷ÉäÆ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä xÉÖ¨ÉÉ<Ænùä EòÉä BEò VÉÖÊ¨¤É¶Éä Eò±É¨É ½þ]õÉiÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉÉ®úä ®úÉVÉ¦É´ÉxÉ MÉ±ÉiÉ SÉÒVÉ Eòä Ê±ÉB <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É ÊEòB MÉB* <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ lÉÉ ÊEò ¦ÉÉ®úiÉÒªÉ VÉxÉiÉÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ ªÉ½þ º´ÉÒEòÉ®ú xÉ Eò®úä* +]õ±É VÉÒ JÉc÷ä ½þÉäEò®ú ªÉ½þ Eò½þ ºÉEòiÉä lÉä ÊEò ¨ÉÖZÉä <ºÉ ½þÉ=ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ{ÉÉä]õÇ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉä Ê´Énùc÷É Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* EªÉÉäÆÊEò ¤ÉÖÊxÉªÉÉnùÒ iÉÉè®ú {É®ú ½þ¨É BEò b÷è¨ÉÉäFòäÊ]õEò EòÆ]ÅÒ ½þèÆ* ±ÉÉäEò ºÉ¦ÉÉ EòÉ ¤ÉÖÊxÉªÉÉnùÒ ½þEò ½þè* nùÉäxÉÉäÆ ½þÉ=ºÉ ¤É®úÉ¤É®ú ½þèÆ +Éè®ú {É½þ±Éä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ±ÉÉäEò ºÉ¦ÉÉ EòÉä <ºÉ ¨ÉÉ¨É±Éä EòÉä iÉªÉ Eò®úxÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉÊ±ÉB ´Éä Eò½þ ºÉEòiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò ¨ÉÖZÉä ªÉ½þÉÆ ºÉ{ÉÉä]õÇ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉä ´ÉÉÊ{ÉºÉ ±ÉäiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨ÉèÆ BEò ¤ÉÉiÉ 356 Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ¨ÉèÆ Ênù±É ºÉä <ºÉEòÒ ¨ÉÖJÉÉ±É¡òiÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ lÉÉ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ¨ÉVÉ¨ÉÖ<Ç ¨É¡òÉnù Eòä Ê±ÉB xÉä¶ÉxÉ±É EòÉÆ£òäÆºÉ B¤ºÉ]õäxÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þÒ ½þè* VÉ¤É +É{É ªÉ½þÉÆ ¤É]õxÉ nù¤ÉÉBÆMÉä ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨ÉVÉ¤ÉÚ®úÒ ¨É¡òÉnù Eòä Ê±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ VÉÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ¨ÉèÆ +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ MÉÉÊ±É¤É EòÉ BEò ¶Éä®ú Eò½þEò®ú JÉi¨É Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ EªÉÉäÆÊEò ªÉ½þ ¤É½þÖiÉ ½þÒ iÉ±JÉ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ½þè ±ÉäÊEòxÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ ¨ÉVÉ¨ÉÖ<Ç ¨É¡òÉnù ¨ÉÖZÉä xÉVÉ®ú ®úJÉxÉÉ ½þè* "®úÊJÉªÉÉä MÉÉÊ±É¤É ¨ÉÖZÉä iÉ±JÉ xÉ´ÉÉ<Ç ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉÖ+É¡ò, +ÉVÉ EòÖUô nùnùÇ ¨Éä®úä Ênù±É ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ´ÉÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè*" <ºÉEòÉ iÉVÉÇÖ¨ÉÉ ¦ÉÒ ¤ÉiÉÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* If you sound bitter today, you seek forgiveness as the cup of agony is full to the brim.

EòÖ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¨É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤ÉxÉVÉÒÇ (Eò±ÉEòiiÉÉ nùÊIÉhÉ) : ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÒ +É¦ÉÉ®úÒ ½þÚÆ ÊEò +É{ÉxÉä ¨ÉÖZÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä EòÉ ¨ÉÉèEòÉ ÊnùªÉÉ ½þè* |ÉÉä. ºÉÉäVÉ xÉä +{ÉxÉÉ ¦ÉÉ¹ÉhÉ BEò ¶Éä®ú ºÉä JÉi¨É ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ¨ÉèÆ +{ÉxÉÉ ¦ÉÉ¹ÉhÉ BEò ¶Éä®ú ºÉä ¶ÉÖ°ü Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÒ ½þÚÆ* VÉ¤É <Eò¤ÉÉ±É EòÒ ¨ÉÉÆ EòÉ nùä½þÉÆiÉ ½þÖ+É iÉÉä <Eò¤ÉÉ±É xÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò "=©É ¦É®ú iÉä®úÒ ¨ÉÉè½þ¤¤ÉiÉ ¨Éä®úÒ ÊJÉnù¨ÉiÉMÉÉ®ú ®ú½þÒ, VÉ¤É ¨ÉèÆ EòÉÊ¤É±Éä ÊJÉnù¨ÉiÉMÉÉ®ú ½þÖ+É iÉÉä iÉÚ SÉ±É ¤ÉºÉÒ*" +ÉVÉ +ÉVÉÉnùÒ Eòä 50 ´É¹ÉÉäÇÆ Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ¦ÉÒ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä nùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉiÉÒªÉ nùÆMÉä ½þÉäiÉä ½þèÆ* nùä¶É Eòä EòÉäxÉä-EòÉäxÉä ¨ÉäÆ nùÊ±ÉiÉ ¦ÉÉ<ªÉÉäÆ, ¨ÉÉ<xÉÉäÊ®ú]õÒVÉ {É®ú, ´ÉÒEò®ú ºÉèE¶ÉxÉ {É®ú +iªÉÉSÉÉ®ú ¤ÉgøiÉÉ VÉÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè* ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù VÉÒ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ÊSÉÆiÉÉ nùÚºÉ®úÒ ½þè ÊEò ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù VÉÒ xÉä EòÉäÊ¶É¶É ¦ÉÒ EòÒ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ BEò VÉMÉ½þ ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù VÉÒ ¡òÆºÉ MÉªÉä* ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉÉ®úä º]õä]ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ SÉÒ¡ò Ê¨ÉÊxÉº]õºÉÇ BäºÉä Eò®ú{¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ VÉÖc÷ä ½þÖB ½þèÆ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ ÊVÉºÉ Eò®ú{¶ÉxÉ Eòä ¨ÉÉ¨É±Éä ¨ÉäÆ ¡òÆºÉ MÉªÉä ½þèÆ, EªÉÉäÆÊEò ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ EòÉ Ênù¨ÉÉMÉ EòÉ¨É xÉ½þÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ÊVÉºÉ +Énù¨ÉÒ EòÉ Ênù¨ÉÉMÉ ºÉÉ<ÆÊ]õÊ¡òEò±ÉÒ Eò®ú{¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ EòÉ¨É Eò®úiÉÉ ½þè ´É½þ ¤ÉSÉ VÉÉiÉÉ ½þè* SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE (BOLPUR): She is capable of saying anything. I do not mind. But let some standard be maintained in the debate in Lok Sabha. (Interruptions). There should be some standard. (Interruptions).

SHRI SUDIP BANDYOPADHYAY (CALCUTTA NORTH-WEST): (Interruptions). What is this? (Interruptions). ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖnùÒ{É ¤ÉÆnùÉä{ÉÉvªÉÉªÉ (Eò±ÉEòiiÉÉ =iiÉ®ú-{ÉÊ¶SÉ¨É) : ¨É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤ÉxÉVÉÒÇ Eòä xÉÉ¨É {É®ú EªÉÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè, EªÉÉ Ênù±É ¨ÉäÆ +ÉMÉ ±ÉMÉ VÉÉiÉÒ ½þè? EòÖ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¨É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤ÉxÉVÉÒÇ (Eò±ÉEòiiÉÉ nùÊIÉhÉ) :VÉ¤É nùÚºÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ¨Éè¨¤ÉºÉÇ xÉä +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þÒ iÉÉä ¨ÉèÆxÉä ÊEòºÉÒ EòÉä xÉ½þÒÆ ]õÉäEòÉ* +MÉ®ú ÊEòºÉÒ EòÉä +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þxÉä EòÉ ½þEò ½þè iÉÉä ½þ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þxÉä EòÉ ½þEò ½þè* {ÉÉÊ±ÉÇªÉÉ¨ÉèÆ]õ ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þ xÉ½þÒÆ SÉ±ÉäMÉÉ* ªÉ½þÉÆ ÊEòºÉÒ EòÒ VÉ¨ÉÒÆnùÉ®úÒ xÉ½þÒÆ SÉ±ÉäMÉÒ* ÊVÉºÉ EòÒ VÉÉä ¨ÉVÉÒÇ ½þÉäMÉÒ, ´É½þ xÉ½þÒÆ SÉ±ÉäMÉÒ* ªÉ½þ SÉÒVÉ xÉ½þÒÆ SÉ±ÉxÉÒ SÉÉÊ½þB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆxÉä iÉÉä +¦ÉÒ +{ÉxÉÉ ¦ÉÉ¹ÉhÉ ¶ÉÖ¯û ½þÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè* ªÉ½þ ¨Éä®úä ºÉÉlÉ BäºÉä ½þÒ ]õEò®úÉ MÉB* ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉSÉ ½þè ÊEò VÉ¤É ¨ÉVÉnùÚ®ú EòÉ¨É Eò®úiÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä Eò½þiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò VÉÉä ¨ÉÖZÉ ºÉä ]õEò®úÉBMÉÉ, SÉÚ®ú-SÉÚ®ú ½þÉä VÉÉBMÉÉ* ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ <ºÉÒ iÉ®ú½þ SÉÚ®ú-SÉÚ®ú ½þÉä VÉÉBÆMÉä* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨ÉèÆ {É½þ±Éä |ÉäVÉÒb÷äÆ]õ °ü±É EòÉä ¤É½þÖiÉ <VVÉiÉ ºÉä nùäJÉiÉÒ lÉÒ* EòÉä<Ç SÉÒVÉ +SUôÒ +Éè®ú ¤ÉÖ®úÒ nùÉäxÉÉäÆ ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þè* EòÉä<Ç SÉÒVÉ +ÉºÉÉxÉÒ ºÉä ºÉ¨¦ÉÉ±ÉÒ VÉÉ ºÉEòiÉÒ ½þè +Éè®ú EòÉä<Ç xÉ½þÒÆ ºÉ¨¦ÉÉ±ÉÒ VÉÉ

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* Expunged as ordered by the Chair. ºÉEòiÉÒ ½þè* vÉÉ®úÉ 356 Eòä {±ÉºÉ +Éè®ú ¨ÉÉ< ºÉ nùÉäxÉÉäÆ {´ÉÉ<Æ]õ ½þÉäiÉä ½þèÆ* ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉ<xÉºÉ {´ÉÉ<Æ]ºÉ Eòä ÊJÉ±ÉÉ¡ò ½þÚÆ* EòÖUô EòÉ¨É nùä¶É Ê½þiÉ ¨ÉäÆ Eò®úxÉä {Éc÷iÉä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú Ê®úºEò ±ÉäxÉÉ {Éc÷iÉÉ ½þè* +MÉ®ú Ê®úºEò xÉ ±ÉäxÉÉ {Éc÷iÉÉ iÉÉä <Êxnù®úÉ VÉÒ EòÉä 1975 ¨ÉäÆ B¨É®úVÉèÆºÉÒ Êb÷E±ÉäªÉ®ú xÉ Eò®úxÉÒ President's rule was imposed 99 times in this country, out of which 90 times when the Congress was in power. I was also in the Congress. Now also, I think I am the original Congress.

DR. RAVI MALLU (NAGAR KURNOOL): You are not.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE: Yes, I am. Nobody will give me a certificate as to who I am. When I was a party member, we were about to do this, sometimes to give justice to the people also. But we should not misuse it. When Shri Morarji Desai came to power also, President's rule was imposed in nine States. We should not forget it. Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ±ÉÉMÉÚ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB {É½þ±Éä ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ VÉÒ xÉä ºÉÉ<xÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ÊEòB lÉä* ½þ¨ÉxÉä ºÉÉäSÉÉ lÉÉ ÊEò nùÚºÉ®úÒ ¤ÉÉ®ú ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ VÉÒ xÉä ºÉÉ<ÇxÉ ÊEòB ½þèÆ iÉÉä ´É½þ VÉ°ü®ú EòxÉÊ´ÉÆºÉ ½þÖB ½þÉäÆMÉä* Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ±ÉÉMÉÚ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ VÉÒ xÉä nùÚºÉ®úÒ ¤ÉÉ®ú ºÉÉ<xÉ ÊEòB* =x½þÉäÆxÉä º]ÅÉèÆMÉ xÉÉä]õ ¦ÉÒ Ê±ÉJÉÉ ÊVÉºÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ÊEòºÉÒ xÉä ªÉ½þÉÆ xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉiÉÉªÉÉ* =x½þÉäÆxÉä Ê±ÉJÉÉ lÉÉ ÊEò nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ, ¶Éäb÷ªÉÚ±b÷ EòÉº]ºÉ, ¶Éäb÷ªÉÚ±b÷ ]ÅÉ<¤ºÉ +Éè®ú ¨ÉÉ<xÉÉìÊ®ú]õÒVÉ {É®ú +iªÉÉSÉÉ®ú ¤ÉÆnù ½þÉäxÉä SÉÉÊ½þB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ®úPÉÖ´ÉÆ¶É |ÉºÉÉnù ÊºÉÆ½þ (´Éè¶ÉÉ±ÉÒ): <x½þÉäÆxÉä ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ VÉÒ EòÉ xÉÉ¨É Ê±ÉªÉÉ ½þè* ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ xÉä ºÉÖ¤É½þ ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉÉäÆ EòÉä ÊxÉªÉ¨É 352(vi) Eòä +xiÉMÉÇiÉ SÉäiÉÉ´ÉxÉÒ nùÒ lÉÒ ÊEò ¤É½þºÉ ¨ÉäÆ ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ VÉÒ EòÉ xÉÉ¨É ±ÉäEò®ú EòÉä<Ç ¤ÉÉiÉ xÉ Eò½þÒ VÉÉB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : I am not quoting the President.

SHRI N.K. PREMCHANDRAN : The ruling has already been given in this House.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : I am not quoting the note of the President. I have mentioned the report which appeared in the Press.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: This was also referred to yesterday.

Rule 352(vi) of the Rules of Procedure and Conduct of Business in Lok Sabha says:

"A member while speaking shall not use the President's name for the purpose of influencing the debate;"

This is very important.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : I cent per cent appreciate what you said. I abide by your ruling. I have not taken the name of the President. I have not said what the President had said. I mentioned what had appeared in a newspaper. That is a public document.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You kindly proceed.

SHRI K. KARUNAKARAN (THIRUVANANTHAPURAM): Sir, the hon. Member is citing certain notes written by the Rashtrapatiji. We would like to know from which source she has got this information.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I do not think so. Are you referring to some note?

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : No, Sir, there is nothing.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: She is not using.

SHRI MOTILAL VORA (RAJNANDGAON): Mr. Speaker, Sir, she has already referred. Mr. Advani was..(Interruptions)

SHRI K. KARUNAKARAN (THIRUVANANTHAPURAM): Wherefrom has she got this information?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: She has herself said she has not used it. How can one impose on her? She says she is not using any note. There ends the matter.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI MOTILAL VORA : As she did not show it yesterday, she has no right to say.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: She says she has not used.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The Member herself has denied she is using any note. Why are you insisting on it? Now, you please continue.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : I have told you that if anything which is against the rules may be expunged. I am giving you the opinion to please expunge it . I maintain Parliament dignity. We know the ethics also. I do not know why the senior persons of the Congress are fighting with me. They should fight with me politically. They should not fight like this.

SHRI VAIKO (SIVAKASI): They are afraid of you.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : While we sat with the commoners, now we are the public representatives. Shall I mention the name? Will you agree?

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: No running commentary please.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : With your permission, I say it is the President of the Congress Party. Sir, I was very happy to see her statement. Shall I mention it? It is from The Hindustan Times, dated 22nd February. "Congress Flip-flops". "No Government which is helpless in preventing such heinous acts forfeits its moral authority to govern". This is dated 22nd February. After that, there are other statements of Shri Arjun Singh and other people also. I do not want to mention it because he is not a Member of the House. Why she said: Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä ½þÉä ®ú½þÉ lÉÉ, =ºÉEòä Ê±ÉªÉä {É½þ±Éä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉä |ÉäVÉÒb÷äÆ]õ Eòä {ÉÉºÉ |ÉäVÉÒb÷äÆ]õ °ü±É Eòä Ê±ÉªÉä ºÉÖZÉÉ´É ¦ÉäVÉÉ lÉÉ ÊVÉºÉä =x½þÉäÆxÉä <xEòÉ®ú Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ lÉÉ* +MÉ®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú lÉÉäc÷É +Éè®ú ¨ÉÉä½þ¤¤ÉiÉ ºÉä ´É º]ÅÉäÆMÉ BE¶ÉxÉ ±ÉäxÉä EòÒ EòÉäÊ¶É¶É Eò®úiÉÒ iÉÉä BäºÉÉ xÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ* VÉ¤É ÊºÉiÉ¨¤É®ú ¨ÉäÆ |ÉäWÉÒb÷äÆ]õ xÉä <xEòÉ®ú Eò®ú ÊnùªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ lÉÉ iÉÉä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ½þÉ±ÉiÉ `öÒEò Eò®úxÉä EòÉ EòÉ¨É Eò®úiÉÒ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ {ÉÚÊhÉÇªÉÉ, VÉ½þÉxÉÉ¤ÉÉnù ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä ½þÖ+É, =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ UôÉä]õä-UôÉä]õä ¤ÉSSÉÉäÆ, ¨ÉÊ½þ±ÉÉ+ÉäÆ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ +JÉ¤ÉÉ®úÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ º]õä]õ¨ÉäÆ]õ nùäJÉÉ +Éè®ú º]õÉ®ú ]õÒ.´ÉÒ. {É®ú nùäJÉÉ* They are not getting blood to save the lives. They are advertising on the TV saying if you have blood of this group, please come and give blood. They have mentioned only about Patna. So, I thought I would send my people from Calcutta to give blood because due to scarcity of blood, the people died there and also because of these atrocities. Let us forget politics. We are the political people. But first we are human beings. That is why, what is going on in Bihar is a fact. ¨ÉèÆ +¦ÉÒ ¦ÉÒ Ê´É¶´ÉÉºÉ Eò®úiÉÒ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ªÉÊnù ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ {ÉÉì´É®ú ¨ÉäÆ ®ú½þiÉä, iÉ¤É EòÖUô ºÉÆ¦ÉÉ±É ºÉEòiÉä lÉä ªÉÉ EòÉäÊ¶É¶É Eò®ú ºÉEòiÉä lÉä ±ÉäÊEòxÉ VÉ¤É ®úÉ¤Éc÷Ò nùä´ÉÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú +É<Ç, ´É½þ {ÉÉèÊ±É]õÒEò±ÉÒ ºÉÉäSÉ ºÉEòiÉÒ lÉÒ ÊEò EªÉÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þªÉä* ½þÉ±ÉÉÆÊEò SÉÒ¡ò Ê¨ÉÊxÉº]õ®ú ½þÉäxÉä Eòä xÉÉiÉä ¨ÉèÆ =xÉEòÒ <VVÉiÉ Eò®úiÉÒ ½þÚÆ* =xÉEòÉä {ÉÉèÊ±ÉÊ]õEò±ÉÒ ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉ¨ÉZÉxÉÒ SÉÉÊ½þªÉä lÉÒ +Éè®ú VÉxÉiÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉEò®ú VÉxÉiÉÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ EòÉ¨É Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þªÉä lÉÉ +Éè®ú ºÉÉäSÉ ºÉEòiÉÒ lÉÒ ÊEò EªÉÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þªÉä ±ÉäÊEòxÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä EòUô ½þÖ+É, ´É½þ +Éä´É®ú+É±É =xÉEòä EòÆ]ÅÉä±É ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÉ* VÉèºÉä ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉ {É]õxÉÉ ªÉÉ vÉxÉ¤ÉÉnù ºÉä ½þÉäEò®ú ®úÉVÉvÉÉxÉÒ MÉÉc÷Ò ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉ ®ú½þä lÉä, ±ÉÉäMÉ Eò½þiÉä lÉä ÊEò {É]õxÉÉ ºÉä xÉ½þÒÆ VÉÉªÉäMÉÉ +Éè®ú ¤ÉÉä±Éä ÊEò b÷EòèiÉ ±ÉÉäMÉ =vÉ®ú ½þèÆ* ºÉ¤É EòÉ ÊVÉxnùMÉÒ ¤É¤ÉÉÇnù ½þÉä VÉÉªÉäMÉÉ +Éè®ú ºÉ¤É EòÉ ÊVÉxnùMÉÒ JÉiÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ {ÉÚUôiÉÒ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉ EªÉÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ VÉÉªÉäMÉäÆ? BäºÉÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ +É¨É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ {ÉènùÉ ½þÉä MÉ<Ç lÉÒ* Ê¨É. SÉ¨{ÉÉ Ê¤É¶´ÉÉºÉ xÉÉ¨É Eòä BEò +É<Ç.B.BºÉ.+ÉÊ¡òºÉ®ú EòÒ ´ÉÉ<¡ò Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ®úä{É ½þÖ+É lÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆxÉä {Éä{É®ú ¨ÉäÆ nùäJÉÉ iÉÉä ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä ºÉÉäSÉÉ ÊEò ªÉ½þ VÉ¤É ½þÉä ®ú½þÉ ½þè +Éè®ú Eò¦ÉÒ-Eò¦ÉÒ ÊEòºÉÒ SÉÒVÉ EòÉ Ê¨ÉºÉªÉÚWÉ ½þ¨É {ÉºÉÆnù Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ lÉÉäc÷ä-lÉÉäc÷ä ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉEòÒ WÉ°ü®úiÉ ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þè* ¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ lÉÉ, +Éè®ú ®úä{É EòÉä VÉÊº]õ¡òÉ< xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úiÉÉ ¨ÉMÉ®ú VÉÉä Ê´É¶´ÉÉºÉ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ½þè, ´É½þ ¨ÉÊ½þ±ÉÉ ¤ÉÉ±É-¤ÉSSÉänùÉ®ú ¨ÉÊ½þ±ÉÉ ½þè, ªÉ½þ ¨ÉèÆ ºÉnùxÉ EòÉä VÉÉxÉEòÉ®úÒ nùäxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* SÉÉ®ú ºÉÉ±É {É½þ±Éä =ºÉEòä ºÉÉlÉ ®úä{É ½þÖ+É lÉÉ +Éè®ú ´É½þ +¤É ¤ÉÉä±ÉiÉÒ ½þè ÊEò SÉÉ®ú ºÉÉ±É {É½þ±Éä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ºÉÉlÉ +¨ÉÖEò +Énù¨ÉÒ xÉä ®úä{É ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ* ÊVÉºÉ Ê´É¶´ÉÉºÉ EòÉä ½þ¨ÉxÉä Eò±ÉäE]õ®ú ¤ÉxÉÉªÉÉ lÉÉ +®úÊ®úªÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ, SÉÉ®ú ºÉÉ±É {É½þ±Éä =ºÉEòÒ ¤ÉÒ´ÉÒ, =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ±É-¤ÉSSÉÉäÆ xÉä ªÉ½þ ¨ÉÖEònù¨ÉÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÒ Ê½þ¨¨ÉiÉ EªÉÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ EòÒ? ªÉ½þ ¨ÉÖZÉä ¤ÉiÉÉ<B* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) EòÖ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¨É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤ÉxÉVÉÒÇ : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ¤ÉÆMÉÉ±É Eòä ¤ÉÉìb÷Ç®ú {É®ú ½þè* <ºÉÒÊ±ÉB Ê¤É½þÉ®ú, =iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É iÉlÉÉ ¤ÉÆMÉÉ±É Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä Ê®ú¶iÉä ¤É½þÖiÉ +SUôä ½þèÆ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä {ÉÉºÉ ½þ®ú ÊnùxÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉÉ®úä +Énù¨ÉÒ +ÉiÉä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ±Éc÷EòÒ ÊEòb÷xÉè{É ½þÉä MÉ<Ç, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ ±Éc÷EòÉ ÊEòb÷xÉè{É ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ¤ÉSSÉä EòÉä ¨ÉÉ®ú ÊnùªÉÉ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ b÷®ú ºÉä {ÉÖÊ±ÉºÉ º]õä¶ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ B¡ò.+É<Ç.+É®úÃ. nùVÉÇ Eò®úxÉä xÉ½þÒÆ VÉÉ ºÉEòiÉä ½þèÆ EªÉÉäÆÊEò ´Éä ½þ¨ÉäÆ {ÉÒ]õäÆMÉä +Éè®ú ¨ÉÉ®ú nùäÆMÉä* BäºÉÉ JÉÉ±ÉÒ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, ªÉ½þ SÉÒWÉ ¤ÉÆMÉÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ ½þè, ªÉ½þ SÉÒWÉ MÉÖVÉ®úÉiÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ ½þè, ªÉ½þ +ºÉ¨É ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ ½þè* There is a proverb, `a prophet is not honoured in his own country'. ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ SÉSÉÉÇ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Are you yielding?

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Yes, I am yielding. He is a senior leader. ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ ªÉÉnù´É (ºÉ¨¦É±É) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤É½þxÉ VÉÒ ºÉä ¨ÉèÆ Eò½þÚÆMÉÉ ÊEò +É{É {É®ú EòÉä<Ç nùÉMÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ÊVÉºÉ ®úè±ÉÒ EòÉä ºÉÆ¤ÉÉäÊvÉiÉ Eò®úxÉä +É{É MÉ<Ç lÉÒÆ, =xÉ¨ÉäÆ ÊEòiÉxÉä +{É®úÉvÉÒ ½þèÆ +É{ÉEòÉä {ÉiÉÉ ½þè? ÊEòiÉxÉä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä WÉÖ±¨É fø½þÉEò®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú iÉEò ¦ÉäVÉÉ ¸ÉÒ|ÉEòÉ¶É ¶ÉÖE±ÉÉ EòÉä? ¨ÉèÆ +¦ÉÒ ¦ÉÉ¹ÉhÉ ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þ ®ú½þÉ lÉÉ iÉÉä ¤É½þxÉVÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÒÆ* +É{É =ºÉÒ EòÉìxÉ£òäxºÉ EòÉä ºÉÆ¤ÉÉäÊvÉiÉ Eò®úxÉä MÉ<Ç lÉÒÆ* +É{É {ÉiÉÉ ±ÉMÉÉ ±ÉÒÊVÉB +{É®úÉÊvÉªÉÉäÆ EòÉ* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mulayam Singh Ji, not like this. EòÖ¨É®úÒ ¨É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤ÉxÉVÉÒÇ: ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ ½þÉ=ºÉ ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þèÆ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ ºÉä +xÉÖ®úÉävÉ Eò®úiÉÒ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ ªÉÉnù´É VÉÒ EòÉ Ê®ú{±ÉÉ<Ç ºÉ¤ÉºÉä ¤ÉÊgøªÉÉ ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ nùä ºÉEòiÉÒ ½þèÆ* ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉÖ±ÉÉªÉ¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ VÉÒ +¤É EªÉÉ ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆMÉä? +MÉ®ú ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ ¤ÉÉä±ÉäÆMÉÒ iÉÉä <iÉxÉÒ ®úÉä¶ÉxÉÒ ½þÉäMÉÒ ÊEò =xÉEòÉä ¦ÉÉMÉxÉÉ {Éc÷äMÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ BäºÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ SÉÉ½þiÉÒ* +É{É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÒ ¨ÉèÆ <VWÉiÉ Eò®úiÉÒ ½þÚÆ +Éè®ú <VWÉiÉ Eò®úxÉä nùÒÊVÉB* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Running commentary should be stopped, Sir.

MR. DEPUTY SPEAKER: No interruptions please.

EòÖ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¨É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤ÉxÉVÉÒÇ : EòÉ¡òÒ ÊnùxÉ {É½þ±Éä BxÉ.b÷Ò.ºÉÒ. EòÒ BEò ¨ÉÒÊ]õÆMÉ ½þÖ<Ç lÉÒ* =ºÉ ¨ÉÒÊ]õÆMÉ ¨ÉäÆ SÉÒ¡ò Ê¨ÉÊxÉº]õºÉÇ ¦ÉÒ ªÉÚxÉèÊxÉ¨ÉºÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÖB ÊEò vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉä JÉi¨É Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* There was no unanimity. Why there was no unanimity? Only BJP is not there. BJP is there, Congress is there, Left Front is there, Mulayam Singh Ji's party is there, Lalu Ji's party is there. All Chief ministers were there. They had their Chief Ministers also. =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ EòÉä<Ç ªÉÚxÉèÊxÉÊ¨É]õÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÖ<Ç* +MÉ®ú vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ nùÖ¯û{ÉªÉÉäMÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè iÉÉä ½þ¨É =ºÉEòä ÊJÉ±ÉÉ¡ò ½þèÆ* +MÉ®ú vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÒ WÉ°ü®úiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäiÉÒ iÉÉä b÷É.+Æ¤Éäb÷Eò®ú <ºÉä ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ ®úJÉiÉä* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ +MÉ®ú vÉÉ®úÉ 356 ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäiÉÒ iÉÉä +ÉVÉ VÉ¨¨ÉÚ Eò¶¨ÉÒ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ®ú½þiÉÉ, {ÉÆVÉÉ¤É xÉ½þÒÆ ®ú½þiÉÉ +Éè®ú Eò<Ç ®úÉVªÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ®ú½þiÉä* vÉÉ®úÉ 356 Eòä ½þÉäxÉä ºÉä +É¨É VÉxÉiÉÉ EòÒ nùäJÉ¦ÉÉ±É Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB, ´É½þÉÆ ¨ÉÉ<xÉÉìÊ®ú]õÒWÉ {É®ú +iªÉÉSÉÉ®ú ®úÉäEòxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB ºÉäx]Å±É MÉ´ÉxÉÇ¨ÉäÆ]õ =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ <Æ]õ®ú´ÉÒxÉ Eò®ú ºÉEòiÉÒ ½þè* Is it not a shame for us?

I am not talking about Bihar only. I condemn atrocities committed anywhere. Sometimes, it happens in Gujarat. Sometimes, it happens in Orissa. Sometimes, it happens in Assam. Sometimes, it happens in West Bengal. It happens everywhere. Why? It happens for political reasons. We should not murder so many people for political reasons. The situation is even worse in West Bengal than in Bihar, but we have not talked of using Article 356 because we want to give them a political fight. Please remember it. That is why, we were waiting. ªÉ½þ ºÉSÉ ½þè ÊEò ¨ÉèÆ MÉ´ÉxÉÇ®ú Eòä º]õèÆb÷ EòÉä ºÉ{ÉÉä]õÇ Eò®úiÉÒ ½þÚÆ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ºÉÉlÉ ½þÒ ¨ÉèÆ BEò ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÒ ½þÚÆ that Governor as a Governor cannot say that he is an RSS man or he is a man of a particular political organisation. They say that RSS is not a political organisation. A Governor has to be impartial. He has to be apolitical. Governor has to perform his duty. ....(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Order please. Madam, we are very much constrained of time.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : The Home Minister is not present here. He was sitting here since morning. I want to request that whenever a Governor is appointed, it may please be seen that the Governor must not have a political background, he must have a pro-people background so that he may know the problems of the people and may understand the reality. Only a good administrator can deliver the goods and no one else. ¦ÉÉ®úiÉ xÉä BEò Ê½þº]ÅÒ FòÒB]õ EòÒ ½þè, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ VÉ¤É ¨ÉèÆxÉä nùäJÉÉ iÉÉä ¨ÉÖZÉä nùÖJÉ ½þÖ+É ÊEò we have been discussing about Bihar for two days, but we have forgotten about it ....(Interruptions) We are proud that our Prime Minister and the Government of India started ....(Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù : ¤ÉÉ®ú-¤ÉÉ®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¤ÉÉä±ÉEò®ú +É{É Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÉ +{É¨ÉÉxÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þÒ ½þè* EòÖ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¨É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤ÉxÉVÉÒÇ : ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ, +É{É BäºÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ¨ÉiÉ EòÊ®úªÉä* ¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù : Eò¦ÉÒ Eò½þiÉÒ ½þèÆ ÊEò ®úä±ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ VÉÉiÉÒÆ, Eò¦ÉÒ Eò½þiÉÒ ½þèÆ ÊEò ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) EòÖ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¨É¨ÉiÉÉ ¤ÉxÉVÉÒÇ : ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ ¤É½þÖiÉ <VVÉiÉ Eò®úiÉÒ ½þÚÆ EªÉÉäÆÊEò ´É½þ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ {Éc÷ÉèºÉÒ ½þè* ....( Interruptions) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please sit down. Please do not interrupt.

... (Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : He should not shout like that.

Sir, please tell me if I cannot speak in the House, where should I speak?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have to speak here only.

... (Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Then, you tell them not to interrupt.

Sir, we are discussing about Bihar, but we are also proud today that India has opened a new chapter with Pakistan and our Prime Minister went to Lahore. This is a good message and we are not discussing it. We should congratulate the Government of India and specially the Prime Ministers of India and Pakistan because after Pandit Jawaharlal Nehru, it is now that this process has started. Even the American President Clinton has congratulated both the Prime Ministers, but I do not know ....(Interruptions) Are they nervous? That is why, they become nervous. ....(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: What is this running commentary?

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Do not disturb.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : They should not forget that all these proposals are the proposals of the Congress Party. They should not forget that the Patents Bill is their proposal. I know this because I was a member of the Congress Party. They should not forget that the Insurance Bill is their proposal. They should also not forget that the proposal regarding CTBT is also their proposal. Now, they should not say that all these proposals are babies of the BJP. Now, they have become `A' team and `B' team. They should not forget it. ....(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Madam, kindly conclude.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Sir, I cannot speak even one line. ....(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not interrupt.

After 355 comes 356. Though we did not request the Government, the Government had sent two-three teams to different parts of the country based on article 355. We do not know what is actually there in the reports that were submitted. I request the Home Minister to table the reports that the Government had received from the Central teams that were sent to different States so that we can come to know as to what actually was stated in those reports. We strongly condemn what happened in Orissa and Gujarat. I demand two CBI investigations into the incidents that occured in Orissa and Gujarat. What happened is shocking. Regarding Bengal, I will speak only two words because ... (Interruptions) ... Do not worry, I will not ask for 356 in your case.

(Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Sunil Khan, do not create disturbance. I have been watching you.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Regarding my State, I will say only one thing. Though it is not related, it is correlated. I do not know why we do not get justice. A woman named Sagiran Bibi was raped and murdered. It is a political case. The hair of Samdad Begum, a young girl, was totally cut. They could not get any justice. In my State, within this year, 150 of our workers have been brutally killed. Fifteen BJP workers, 5 RSP workers, 2 SUC workers and one CPU worker have been murdered. In one particular place, Howrah, within one month, thirty-five people have been brutally killed. ...(Interruptions) ... There is physical assault, there is monetary corruption, there is blackmailing, there is smuggling going on in the State, but we do not get any justice. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA (BANKURA): Sir, she is making all false allegations. They should not be allowed to go on record. ...(Interruptions)

SHRI SUDIP BANDYOPADHYAY : Each and every point is true. A hundred and fifty Trinamul Congress workers have been brutally killed. Sir, they are murderers.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : We can also list a number of incidents as they are doing.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Kumari Mamata Banerjee, please conclude now.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : These are all baseless allegations. Sir, you cannot allow these things to go on record against a State Government.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I will go through the record and remove all the objectionable remarks.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Sudip Bandyopadhyay, please take your seat.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, they have been totally rejected by the -----------------------------------------------------------------------

* Expunged as ordered by the Chair.

people of West Bengal in the last Municipal elections.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Acharia, I am on my legs. Please resume your seat.

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : Sir, she should not be allowed to make such allegations.

... (Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Sir, how can I speak if anyone interferes like this?... (Interruptions)... Would you not allow me to speak? ... (Interruptions)

SHRI BASU DEB ACHARIA : She cannot mislead the House... (Interruptions)...She is making allegations which are untrue... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Basu Deb Acharia, please resume your seat.

... (Interruptions)

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : Can anything be said here? What is the level of debate?... (Interruptions)... They are calling us ... or something like that... (Interruptions)...Is this the level of debate?... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I will expunge all those objectionable words and indecent expressions used by some Members, from whichever side they may be, from the records.

... (Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Sir, they have unnecessarily wasted my time... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I will expunge all the objectionable words and indecent expressions from the records.

Madam, kindly proceed now.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : I am really sorry to say, Sir, that whenever these people speak, we listen to them carefully but when our chances come, they become so angry and disturb us... (Interruptions)

SHRI SUDIP BANDYOPADHYAY : Shri Somnath Chatterjee will never be allowed to speak... (Interruptions)...You take care of him (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Sudip Bandyopadhyay, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Order, please.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Sudip Bandyopadhyay, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Kumari Mamata Banerjee, please proceed.

... (Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : What is this going on, Sir?... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Hon. Members, will you please resume your seats?

... (Interruptions) ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : ªÉ½þ EªÉÉ ½þÉä ®ú½þÉ ½þè?

... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Order, please. I seek cooperation from all the Whips.

... (Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Sir, if anybody is disturbed from my voice... (Interruptions)... I appreciate the people who ask me to apologize to the people. Even I can say like this (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Madam, please wind up.

... (Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : Why are they disturbing me in every line?... (Interruptions)... I am not quoting or telling anything about the Trinamul Congress. With your kind permission, I would show you the Book, the Draft Report of the 15th National Conference of RSP. This is on the current national political situation. What have they written? I will ask them to please go through page 33, 34 and 35 of this Report. There you will see... (Interruptions)

AN. HON. MEMBER: You read it.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : There is no time. That is why I am not reading this... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Promothese Mukherjee, this is not the way to react. Please take your seat.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : In these pages, they have mentioned that `because of the atrocities, people of Bengal are not getting any justice. Because of corruption, people are not getting justice.' It is not said by my party. It is said by their election partner... (Interruptions)

SHRI N.K. PREMCHANDRAN : She is misleading the House... (Interruptions)

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : If people want, I can lay it on the Table of the House... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri N.K. Premchandran, please take your seat... (Interruptions)

20.00 hrs. ... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Will you please resume your seat?

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : You know I always maintain the time of the House. That is why, within five minutes I will finish my speech. But they disturb me like anything. I quoted not my book. I quoted their book. But after that also, because of the time constraint, I am not going to quote it also.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You need not quote. I want you to please wind up.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : I have not spoken anything. They have not allowed me to speak. When we will get the opportunity, then we must speak about it in detail. But when Home Minister will reply about this President's rule in Bihar, I want to strengthen the hands of Shri Lalu Prasad.

That is why, I am asking. At the same time, he should reply about the situations in Tamil Nadu, West Bengal, Orissa and Gujarat also. The Centre should have given the report. We have got the right to know from the Home Minister.

With these words, I support the Government's stand and in the interest of people, let me quote a poem before finishing my speech. Today I am not satisfied. They did not allow me to raise my voice in a proper manner. But one day, I will give them a befitting reply. I am waiting for that day.

AN HON. MEMBER: It will never come.

KUMARI MAMATA BANERJEE : It will come. I quote the poem as follows: - VÉ¤É nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ {É®ú EòÉä<Ç +iªÉÉSÉÉ®ú ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä =ºÉä ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉ EòÒ nÞùÊ¹]õ ºÉä xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉÊ±Eò ¨ÉÉxÉ´ÉiÉÉ EòÒ nÞùÊ¹]õ ºÉä nùäJÉxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* ¨ÉÉxÉ´ÉiÉÉ EòÒ nÞùÊ¹]õ ºÉä nùäJÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB VÉÉä ¦ÉÒ +Éè¤ºÉ]ÅE¶ÉxºÉ +ÉBÆ, ¨ÉèÆ ¶ÉÉªÉ®úÒ ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÒ ½þÚÆ - ºÉ®ú Ê¡ò®úÉä¶ÉÒ EòÒ iÉ¨ÉxxÉÉ +¤É ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä Ênù±É ¨ÉäÆ ½þè nùäJÉxÉÉ ½þè WÉÉä®ú ÊEòiÉxÉÉ ¤ÉÉVÉÖB EòÉÊiÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ ½þè* THE MINISTER OF POWER, MINISTER OF PARLIAMENTARY AFFAIRS AND MINISTER OF NON-CONVENTIONAL ENERGY SOURCES (SHRI P. R. KUMARAMANGALAM): I understand that speakers from four Parties only are left. May I request you to extend the time of the House? Home Minister may start reply at 8.30 PM.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: No. We cannot afford to allow any more Members to speak now. ¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±É ¨ÉÖxÉÒ SÉÉè¤Éä (¤ÉEºÉ®ú) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨Éä®úÉ ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ EòÉ |É¶xÉ ½þè, ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉºÉä ºÉÆ®úIÉhÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : EòÉèxÉ ºÉä °ü±É Eòä +ÆiÉMÉÇiÉ +É{É ´ªÉ´ÉºlÉÉ EòÉ |É¶xÉ =`öÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ? ¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±É ¨ÉÖxÉÒ SÉÉè¤Éä : ¨Éä®úÉ xÉÉ¨É SÉÒ¡ò Ê´½þ{É xÉä SÉÉèlÉä xÉ¨¤É®ú {É®ú ÊnùªÉÉ lÉÉ, ´É½þ xÉÉ¨É EòèºÉä Eò]õÉ +Éè®ú Eò½þÉÆ MÉªÉÉ? ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : EòÉèxÉ ºÉä °ü±É Eòä +ÆiÉMÉÇiÉ ½þè, =ºÉä EòÉä]õ EòÒÊVÉB?

... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) There are some two or thre small Parties.

DR. T. SUBBARAMI REDDY (VISAKHAPATNAM): No more Members could be allowed.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Do you not want to speak? ¸ÉÒ ®úÉ¨ÉnùÉºÉ +`öÉ´É±Éä : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉÖZÉä nùÉä Ê¨ÉxÉ]õ ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä EòÉ ¨ÉÉèEòÉ ÊnùªÉÉ VÉÉªÉä* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ +¦ÉÒ 10 Ê¨ÉxÉ]õ EòÉ ]õÉ<¨É ¤ÉÉEòÒ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Ramdas Athawale, please take your seat. |ÉÉä. |Éä¨É ÊºÉÆ½þ SÉxnùÚ¨ÉÉVÉ®úÉ ({ÉÊ]õªÉÉ±ÉÉ) : ½þ¨ÉEòÉä ]õÉ<¨É ±ÉäxÉÉ ½þè* +EòÉ±ÉÒ nù±É EòÉä ±ÉÉÊVÉ¨ÉÒ ]õÉ<¨É nùäxÉÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You will get your chance after Shri K. Yerrannaidu.

... (Interruptions)

2006 hours SHRI K. YERRANNAIDU (SRIKAKULAM): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, I will not take much time.

The Telugu Desam Party, from the beginning, has a very firm, principled view on the use of Article 356 of the Constitution of India. In fact, the Telugu Desam Party has decided to annul Article 356 from the Constitution, from the very beginning. The Telugu Desam Party has been represented in several meetings of the Inter-State Council where all the Chief Ministers have expressed a majority opinion that it should be continued in the Constitution with some safeguards. This is why, we have a consensus to give some safeguards in respect of Article 356 of the Constitution.

From the very beginning, we are demanding that the Sarkaria Commission recommendations should be implemented in letter and in true spirit by the Centre. This was why the Telugu Desam Party had chosen as Governor of the State of Andhra Pradesh, Dr. C. Rangarajan, who is not a politician but an economist.

Earlier, I was a Minister in the United Front Government. At that time, the Union Government wanted to invoke Article 356 in Uttar Pradesh. The Telugu Desam Party opposed that proposal. In the case of Bihar also, when for the first time the Union Government decided to invoke Article 356, the Telugu Desam Party reacted strongly and opposed that proposal.

The Telugu Desam Party is for the implementation of federalism in letter and spirit. This is why, from the very beginning, the Telugu Desam Party wanted more financial powers to the States. The Telugu Desam Party, in the last eighteen years, convened several conclaves to grow the spirit of federalism in this country.

At this juncture, all of us are aware of the incidents that took place in Bihar against the Dalits. When the Government of India took a decision for the first time to invoke Article 356 in Bihar, the President sent back the proposal for reconsideration. At that time, the Central Government had issued a warning to the Government of Bihar. After that, many incidents have taken place. The Governor has already forwarded a report to the Centre.

A press report on the apparent situation in the State of Bihar lists the incidents of steep increase in the massacre of Dalits and STs as follows.

"(a) Massacre of 11 Dalits on 11.2.1999 at Narayanpur Village in Jehanabad District;

(b) Brutal killing of 23 Dalits at Sankarbheega Village, Jehanabad District on 25.1.1999.;

(c) Ghastly roasting alive of 6 santhals (STs) in Purnea District; and

(d) Hundreds of poor Dalits, STs and BCs killed by private armies (Ranvir Sena and others) funded by big landlords."

In these circumstances, the Telugu Desam Party has decided to support the Centre. ... (Interruptions) In this particular case, the Congress Party has come out with its true colours; it has no moral rights; since Independence, they imposed President's Rules using the provisions of Article 356 more than 60 times in India.

For political gains, to destabilise the Centre and to get power in this country, the Congress Party is playing dual role in this country. In the recent meeting of the National Development Council, the Rajasthan Chief Minister has said something and I would like to quote him. Newspapers have reported the divergent views expressed by the Rajasthan Chief Minister, Shri Ashok Gehlot. He wanted status quo ante to remain, before the judgment of Bommai's case. I would like to ask the Congress Members here as to what is their role regarding the provisions of Article 356. If they are interested and if they have any safeguards for this Constitutional provision, why should he make such a proposal in that National Development Council meeting? On the one hand, they support that and on the other hand, they are not supporting the Centre's action now. Why? It is because to get to power through back-door methods. That is their ultimate goal. ... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please cooperate. Shri Yerrannaidu, please conclude.

SHRI K. YERRANNAIDU (SRIKAKULAM): Under these extraordinary circumstances, the Telugu Desam Party reluctantly and painfully agree to support the Union Government's stand. Taking into consideration the large scale massacre and killings of dalits that took place in Bihar, we support the stand of the Union Government.

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA (PONNANI): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, Article 356 is under discussion in this House.

Let me at the outset make it extremely clear that we have consistently and persistently held the view that Article 356 is a source of legitimate and necessary power for exceptional and rare cases; and there can be no doubt about it. Of course, there is a need for the amendment of Article 356 to incorporate safeguards against its misuse or abuse. But then, it is a legitimate power for exceptional cases, for the rarest cases and for critical situations.

Dr. Ambedkar, the father of the Constitution himself had said in the Constituent Assembly that he would like that the power under Article 356 should remain a dead letter and only for the rarest occasions. That is true. But then, this is a power which is an action or a measure of last resort. Now, in this case where Article 356 is invoked, we are faced with only a limited question; and the limited question is the fair or impartial exercise of the power in the event of a breakdown of the Constitutional machinery.

There is no question of expounding the theory of a good Government and there is no question of expounding the theory that the Centre can provide a better Government to the State. Let it be known that in the name of good Government, self Government cannot be killed in the federal structure. Let there be no mistake about that. As I heard some of the speeches, I have felt that this House is being transformed into an electoral stage where appeal is being made to provide a better Government, so-called better Government, to the State of Bihar. As I said, self Government cannot be sacrificed at the altar of the excuse of a good Government. ...(Interruptions) Various factors were placed here as responsible for the dismissial of the Bihar Government.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please conclude.

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA : Sir, I have not even opened my mouth. I will not misuse the time as they misuse article 356.

These very factors which are said to be responsible for the removal of Rabri Devi Government in Bihar are present in several other States, saffron States. They are present with reimposed vigour and manner in these States. Therefore, there is a partial and an unfair exercise of the power and that we reject.There are several other States where there is a break down of constitutional machinery. Take the case of Gujarat, Uttar Pradesh and Maharashtra. Look what had happened to Srikrishna Commission Report. The Report held Shiv Sena and its Pramukh as responsible and accused of crimes against the minorities. The accused is in power. The accused abuses the power to reject the chargesheet against him. The accused refuses to accept the Report and rejects it unceremoniously. The accused refuses to take action against himself. Here we see a gross breach of the rule of law.

Sir, I would not like to take the time of the House. The Sarkaria Commission said that there could be occasions of internal subversion. I would like to quote a few sentences from the Sarkaria Commission Report. It says, "Where the State Government, although ostensibly, acting within the constitutional form, designedly flouts principles and conventions of responsible Government to substitute for them some sort of dictatorship."

Sir, such is the situation. There, we find the Government does not go. Here, I will concede....

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I want you to conclude.

SHRI G.M. BANATWALLA : It is the last part that I would like to submit.

I will concede that killings and massacres are very serious.

A Government that fails to protect the human life is a Government that has failed in the matter of upholding the Constitution which values human life. In the case of Bihar, we had the massacre of the dalits. But I am sure, the dalit of Bihar sphere do not want their destiny to be surrendered to the saffron forces, the fascist forces over here. Let there be no mistake about that. Our sympathy for dalits, our sentiments of justice for dalits demand that their destiny cannot be handed over on a platter to the fascist saffron forces. Therefore, let our sympathy not be misdirected towards strengthening the saffron hands of In the case of Bihar, we had the massacre of the dalits. I am sure, now the of fascist forces are strangling the secular democracy here. It cannot be tolerated. Therefore, we strongly oppose the motion that has been brought before the House by the Home Minister.

¸ÉÒ ÊEò¶ÉxÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ ºÉÉÆMÉ´ÉÉxÉ (ºÉÉäxÉÒ{ÉiÉ): ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ ºÉ¤ÉºÉä {É½þ±Éä +É{ÉEòÉä vÉxªÉ´ÉÉnù nùäiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò +É{ÉxÉä ¨ÉÖZÉä ¤ÉÉä±ÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ÊnùªÉÉ* ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, Ê{ÉUô±Éä nùÉä ÊnùxÉÉäÆ ºÉä <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ±ÉMÉÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè, =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ SÉSÉÉÇ SÉ±É ®ú½þÒ ½þè* ºÉ¦ÉÒ {ÉÉÊ]õÇªÉÉäÆ Eòä xÉäiÉÉ+ÉäÆ xÉä +{ÉxÉä-+{ÉxÉä Ê´ÉSÉÉ®ú ®úJÉä ½þèÆ* vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ |ÉªÉÉäMÉ Eò®úEòä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÉä ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ Eòä +vÉÒxÉ ±ÉÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè* <ºÉ nùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þ vÉÉ®úÉ 90 ¤ÉÉ®ú |ÉªÉÉäMÉ ¨ÉäÆ ±ÉÉ<Ç MÉ<Ç ½þè, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ VªÉÉnùÉiÉ®ú <ºÉ vÉÉ®úÉ EòÉ nùÖ¯û{ÉªÉÉäMÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ vÉÉ®úÉ 356 Eòä {ÉIÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þè* ªÉ½þ vÉÉ®úÉ nùä¶É EòÉä ºÉÆMÉÊ`öiÉ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB, Eòäxpù EòÉä ¨ÉVÉ¤ÉÚiÉ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉxÉÉ<Ç MÉ<Ç lÉÒ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¤Éc÷ä JÉänù EòÉ Ê´É¹ÉªÉ ½þè ÊEò ±ÉMÉ¦ÉMÉ ºÉ¦ÉÒ nù±ÉÉäÆ xÉä <ºÉEòÉ nùÖ¯û{ÉªÉÉäMÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè* Ê´É¶Éä¹ÉEò®ú EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ xÉä, SÉÚÆÊEò ´É½þ ºÉiiÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¤É½þÖiÉ ±É¨¤Éä ºÉ¨ÉªÉ iÉEò ®ú½þÒ ½þè, <ºÉEòÉ nùÖ¯û{ÉªÉÉäMÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉÉèVÉÚnùÉ ÊºlÉÊiÉ ¨ÉäÆ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÉ VÉÉä ¨ÉÉ¨É±ÉÉ ½þè, ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É ¨É½þÉänùªÉ EòÒ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ ºÉnùxÉ Eòä {É]õ±É {É®ú ®úJÉÒ MÉ<Ç, =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä +ÉÆEòc÷ä ÊnùB MÉB ½þèÆ, =xÉºÉä BEò º{É¹]õ ¨É½þºÉÚºÉ ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þè ÊEò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ºÉä VªÉÉnùÉ JÉ®úÉ¤É ÊºlÉÊiÉ nùä¶É Eòä nùÚºÉ®úä |ÉÉxiÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ ½þè* ¨É½þÉ®úÉ¹]Å, ½þÊ®úªÉÉhÉÉ, =iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É +Éè®ú Ênù±±ÉÒ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä +ÉÆEòc÷ä {Éä¶É ÊEòB MÉB ½þèÆ, +É¤ÉÉnùÒ EòÒ nÞùÊ¹]õ ºÉä ´É½þÉÆ ¦ÉÒ ½þÉ±ÉiÉ JÉ®úÉ¤É ½þè* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ ½þÊ®úªÉÉhÉÉ |Énùä¶É ¤É½þÖiÉ UôÉä]õÉ |Énùä¶É ½þè, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ´É½þÉÆ ¦ÉÒ ±ÉÉ-BÆb÷-+Éb÷Ç®ú EòÒ ÊºlÉÊiÉ ¤É½þÖiÉ JÉ®úÉ¤É ½þè* ºÉ¤ÉºÉä VªÉÉnùÉ PÉ]õxÉÉªÉäÆ ½þÊ®úªÉÉhÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þèÆ +Éè®ú Ênù±±ÉÒ |Énùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ PÉ]õxÉÉªÉäÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þèÆ* EòÉ¡òÒ ¤Éc÷É ¨ÉÉÊ¡òªÉÉ ½þÊ®úªÉÉhÉÉ |Énùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ ¡òè±ÉÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ®úäxpù ÊºÉÆ½þ (Ê¦É´ÉÉxÉÒ): +É{É ½þÊ®úªÉÉhÉÉ Eòä ±ÉÉ-BÆb÷-+Éb÷Ç®ú EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ´É½þÉÆ VÉxÉiÉÉ ¨É½þ¨É EòÒ PÉ]õxÉÉ EòÉä xÉ½þÒÆ ¦ÉÚ±É ºÉEòiÉÒ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not interrupt.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except the speech of Shri Sangwan.

(Interruptions)* ¸ÉÒ ÊEò¶ÉxÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ ºÉÉÆMÉ´ÉÉxÉ (ºÉÉäxÉÒ{ÉiÉ): ´É½þÉÆ {É®ú SÉÉ®ú-SÉÉ®ú ºÉÉ±É EòÒ ¤ÉÊSSÉªÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ¤É±ÉÉiEòÉ®ú ½þÖB ½þèÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

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* Not Recorded.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: I have already said that nothing will go on record.

(Interruptions)* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Surender Singh, will you please resume your seat?

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ÊEò¶ÉxÉ ÊºÉÆ½þ ºÉÉÆMÉ´ÉÉxÉ : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, <ºÉ ±ÉÉäEòºÉ¦ÉÉ Eòä SÉÖxÉÉ´É Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ xÉä ¦ÉÉVÉ{ÉÉ EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä ºÉ¤ÉºÉä {É½þ±Éä ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ ÊnùªÉÉ lÉÉ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¤Éc÷ä JÉänù Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ¨ÉÖZÉä Eò½þxÉÉ {Éc÷ ®ú½þÉ ½þè ÊEò ºÉ¤ÉºÉä {É½þ±Éä ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ ¦ÉÒ ½þ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉVÉ¤ÉÚ®úÒ ¨ÉäÆ ´ÉÉ{ÉºÉ ±ÉäxÉÉ {Éc÷É* ºÉÉ®úä nùä¶É EòÒ VÉxÉiÉÉ EòÉä =¨¨ÉÒnùäÆ lÉÒÆ ÊEò ªÉ½þ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÖUô Eò®úEòä ÊnùJÉÉBMÉÒ* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¦ÉÒ ªÉ½þÒ ¨ÉÆ¶ÉÉ lÉÒ ÊEò EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ xÉä <ºÉ nùä¶É EòÉä ¤É¤ÉÉÇnù ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè <ºÉÊ±ÉB EòÉÆOÉäºÉ EòÉä nùÚ®ú ®úJÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB ½þ¨ÉxÉä ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ VÉÒ EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ BEò ºÉÉ±É Eòä ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä EòÖUô ½þÖ+É =ºÉºÉä VÉxÉiÉÉ ºÉÆiÉÖ¹]õ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ ÊVÉºÉ ´ÉMÉÇ ºÉä iÉÉ±±ÉÖEò ®úJÉiÉÒ ½þè, VÉèºÉä ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä +{ÉxÉÉ {ÉIÉ {Éä¶É ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè ÊEò VÉ½þÉÆ ¦ÉÒ nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ +iªÉÉSÉÉ®ú ½þÉäiÉä ½þèÆ iÉÉä ´É½þ Eò¦ÉÒ ºÉ¨ÉZÉÉèiÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úiÉÒÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ÊEòºÉÉxÉÉäÆ +Éè®ú ¨ÉVÉnùÚ®úÉäÆ Eòä Ê±ÉB SÉÉèvÉ®úÒ nùä´ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±É VÉÒ xÉä ±Éc÷É<Ç ±Éc÷Ò* ÊEòºÉÉxÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ <ºÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉä VªÉÉnùiÉÒ EòÒ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ªÉ½þ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ÊEòºÉÉxÉ +Éè®ú ¨ÉVÉnùÚ®ú Ê´É®úÉävÉÒ ½þè, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ½þ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þÉÆ ¤Éè`öxÉÉ {Éc÷É* ¨Éä®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ ªÉ½þ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ½þè ÊEò VÉ½þÉÆ ÊEòºÉÉxÉ +Éè®ú ½þÊ®úVÉxÉ EòÉ xÉÖEòºÉÉxÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þÉä ½þ¨É =ºÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉ Eò¦ÉÒ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úiÉä* <ºÉÊ±ÉB ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ xÉä ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨É <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É Eòä Ê´É®úÉävÉ ¨ÉäÆ +{ÉxÉÉ ¨ÉiÉnùÉxÉ Eò®úäÆMÉä* ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ ¨ÉiÉ±É¤É ªÉ½þ xÉ½þÒÆ ºÉ¨ÉZÉxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB ÊEò ½þ¨É EòÉÆOÉäºÉ Eòä {ÉIÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þèÆ* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ ½þ¨Éä¶ÉÉ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ Eòä ÊJÉ±ÉÉ¡ò ®ú½þÒ ½þè +Éè®ú +ÉMÉä ¦ÉÒ ½þ¨É EòÉÆOÉäºÉ EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉxÉxÉä nùäÆMÉä, ªÉ½þ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ ´ÉÉªÉnùÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ ªÉ½þ ¡òèºÉ±ÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨É <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É Eòä Ê´É®úÉävÉ ¨ÉäÆ +{ÉxÉÉ ¨ÉiÉnùÉxÉ Eò®úäÆMÉä* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ)

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* Not Recorded.

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VÉèºÉÒ ¤ÉÒ.VÉä.{ÉÒ. ®ú½þÒ, ´ÉèºÉè ½þÒ +É{É ®ú½þä* ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : ´É½þ EªÉÉ VÉ¨ÉÉxÉÉ lÉÉ VÉ¤É +É{É EòÉÆOÉäºÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ½þÉlÉ Ê¨É±ÉÉEò®ú ºÉiiÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉxÉä EòÉ |ÉªÉÉºÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þÒ lÉÒÆ* ªÉ½þ ¨ÉxÉÖ´ÉÉnùÒ SÉiÉÖ´ÉÇhÉÒÇªÉ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÒ º]Åä]õäVÉÒ ½þè* EòÖ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ : +É{ÉxÉä xÉÉEò ®úMÉc÷Ò lÉÒ ÊEò =iiÉ®ú |Énùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ VªÉÉnùÉ ºÉÒ]õä nùä nùÉä* ½þ¨ÉxÉä 425 ºÉÒ]õÉä ºÉä +É{ÉEòÉä 125 ºÉÒ]õäÆ nùÒ lÉÒ +Éè®ú ½þ¨É JÉÖnù 300 ºÉÒ]õÉäÆ {É®ú SÉÖxÉÉ´É ±Éc÷ä lÉä* +É{É ±ÉèÆb÷ Ê®ú¡òÉ¨ÉÇ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þèÆ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) .. +É{ÉxÉä ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÉä vÉÉäJÉä ¨ÉäÆ ®úJÉÉ +Éè®ú ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ºÉ¨ÉÉVÉ EòÉä vÉÉäJÉä ¨ÉäÆ ®úJÉÉ* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mayawatiji, unless he yields, you cannot speak. ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : ¨ÉèÆ Eò½þ ®ú½þÉ lÉÉ ÊEò ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÉ ºÉÉ½þä¤É +¨¤Éäb÷Eò®ú EòÒ ¨ÞÉiªÉÖ Eòä ¤ÉÉnù Eò¦ÉÒ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ®ú½þxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þªÉä ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ºÉiiÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¤Éè`öxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉªÉä +É{ÉxÉä EòÉÆOÉäºÉ EòÉ ºÉÉlÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ* ªÉ½þ {ÉÚÆVÉÒ{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÊEiÉªÉÉäÆ, VÉÉÊiÉ´ÉÉnùÒ ¶ÉÊEiÉªÉÉäÆ, vÉ¨ÉÉÇxvÉ ¶ÉÊEiÉªÉÉäÆ +Éè®ú ¨ÉxÉÖ´ÉÉnùÒ ¶ÉÊEiÉªÉÉäÆ EòÒ º]Åä]õäVÉÒ ½þè, ´É½þ ½þ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉxÉxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þªÉä* ´Éä ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÚ VÉMÉVÉÒ´ÉxÉ ®úÉ¨É, ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÉ ºÉÉ½þä¤É +¨¤Éäb÷Eò®ú Eòä xÉÉ¨É {É®ú Ê´É¦ÉÉVÉxÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉä ½þèÆ ÊVÉx½þÉäÆxÉä ¨É½þÉi¨ÉÉ MÉÉÆvÉÒ Eòä ºÉÉ¨ÉlÉÇªÉ ºÉä nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉä JÉc÷É Eò®úxÉä EòÉ EòÉ¨É ÊEòªÉÉ* EòÖ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ (+Eò¤É®ú{ÉÖ®ú) : ¤ÉÉ¤ÉÉ ºÉÉ½þä¤É xÉä nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ Eòä Ê±ÉªÉä ºÉ¤É EòÖUô ÊEòªÉÉ +Éè®ú +É{É {ÉÚxÉÉ {ÉèE]õ EòÉä ªÉÉnù Eò®úäÆ* ¨É½þÉi¨ÉÉ MÉÉÆvÉÒ xÉä ªÉ´ÉÇnùÉ VÉä±É ¨ÉäÆ +É¨É®úhÉ +xÉ¶ÉxÉ ®úJÉÉ* ¨É½þÉi¨ÉÉ MÉÉÆvÉÒ iÉÉä nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ Eòä Ê´É®úÉävÉÒ lÉä* ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : +É{É MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ Eòä ½þiªÉÉ®úä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ¤Éè`öxÉä EòÉ EòÉ¨É Eò®úxÉä ´ÉÉ±ÉÒ ½þèÆ ...(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Mayawatiji, only when Shri Shinde yields to you, then you can speak.

SHRI SUSHIL KUMAR SHINDE : Sir, I am not yielding to here. ¸ÉÒ EÞò¹hÉ ±ÉÉ±É ¶É¨ÉÉÇ : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ªÉä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ xÉÉ¨É ±Éä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : ¨ÉèÆ ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þ ®ú½þÉ lÉÉ, +É{ÉEòÉä EªÉÉäÆ ¤ÉÖ®úÉ ±ÉMÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè? ¨ÉèÆxÉä +É{ÉEòÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ xÉÉ¨É xÉ½þÒÆ Ê±ÉªÉÉ* ¸ÉÒ EÞò¹hÉ ±ÉÉ±É ¶É¨ÉÉÇ : +É{ÉxÉä xÉÉ¨É Ê±ÉªÉÉ ½þè* +É{ÉxÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ Eòä ½þiªÉÉ®úÉäÆ ºÉä ½þÉlÉ Ê¨É±ÉÉ ®ú½þÒ ½þèÆ* +É{É <xÉ ¶É¤nùÉäÆ EòÉä ´ÉÉ{ÉºÉ ±ÉÒÊVÉªÉä* ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : +É{ÉEòÉ xÉÉ¨É xÉ½þÒÆ Ê±ÉªÉÉ ªÉÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä <ºÉºÉä +É{ÉEòÉä EªÉÉ ¨ÉiÉ±É¤É?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Sharmaji, you are a senior Member. Unless he yields to you, you cannot take the floor on your own. ¸ÉÒ EÞò¹hÉ ±ÉÉ±É ¶É¨ÉÉÇ : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, <x½þÉäxÉä Eò½þÉ ½þè ÊEò ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ Eòä ½þiªÉÉ®úÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ½þÉlÉ Ê¨É±ÉÉªÉÉ* ªÉÉ iÉÉä ªÉä ¶É¤nù ´ÉÉ{ÉºÉ ±ÉäÆ ªÉÉ <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉä ºÉÉÊ¤ÉiÉ Eò®úäÆ* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please do not interrupt him. Please take your seats.

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆxÉä <xÉEòÉ xÉÉ¨É xÉ½þÒÆ Ê±ÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú xÉ ¤ÉÒ.VÉä.{ÉÒ. EòÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ* +É{É ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ +{ÉxÉä >ð{É®ú EªÉÉäÆ ±Éä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ? <ºÉEòÉ ¨ÉiÉ±É¤É ªÉ½þ ½þÖ+É ÊEò +É{É ½þiªÉÉ®úä ½þèÆ* ¸ÉÒ EÞò¹hÉ ±ÉÉ±É ¶É¨ÉÉÇ : Ê¡ò®ú +É{ÉxÉä ªÉ½þ ÊEòºÉEòä Ê±ÉªÉä Eò½þÉ ½þè? ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : ¨ÉèÆxÉä +É{ÉEòÉ xÉÉ¨É iÉÉä xÉ½þÒÆ Ê±ÉªÉÉ lÉÉ* ¸ÉÒ EÞò¹hÉ ±ÉÉ±É ¶É¨ÉÉÇ : +É{É <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉä ºÉÉÊ¤ÉiÉ EòÊ®úªÉä xÉ½þÒÆ iÉÉä +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉä Ê´Énùc÷É Eò®úäÆ* ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : EªÉÉ +É{ÉEòä ¨ÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ <iÉxÉÉ ºÉÆ¶ÉªÉ ½þè ÊEò VÉ¤É ¨ÉèÆxÉä MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ Eòä ½þiªÉÉ®úÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ¤Éè`öxÉä ´ÉÉ±ÉÒ Eò½þÉ iÉÉä +É{É =`ö MÉªÉä +Éè®ú Eò½þxÉä ±ÉMÉä ÊEò ¨ÉèÆxÉä +É{ÉEòÉ xÉÉ¨É ±Éä Ê±ÉªÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆxÉä +É®ú.BºÉ.BºÉ. EòÉ xÉÉ¨É xÉ½þÒÆ Ê±ÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú xÉ ¤ÉÒ.VÉä.{ÉÒ. EòÉ xÉÉ¨É Ê±ÉªÉÉ ½þèÆ* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please resume your seats.

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ EÞò¹hÉ ±ÉÉ±É ¶É¨ÉÉÇ : MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ EòÉ ½þiªÉÉ®úÉ EòÉèxÉ ½þèÆ, <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þ ºÉÉÊ¤ÉiÉ Eò®úxÉÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ ®úÉVÉ´ÉÒ®ú ÊºÉÆ½þ (+ÉÆ´É±ÉÉ) : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ªÉä ¤ÉiÉÉBÆ ÊEò MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ EòÉ ½þiªÉÉ®úÉ EòÉèxÉ ½þè ÊVÉºÉEòä ºÉÉlÉ ¤ÉÒVÉä{ÉÒ xÉä ½þÉlÉ Ê¨É±ÉÉªÉÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, +É{ÉEòÒ iÉ®ú¡ò ºÉä ÊxÉnùÇä¶É +ÉxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB ÊEò ªÉ½þ MÉ±ÉiÉ ½þè iÉÉä EòÉªÉÇ´ÉÉ½þÒ ºÉä <ºÉä ÊxÉEòÉ±ÉxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB xÉ½þÒÆ iÉÉä ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ EòÉä IÉ¨ÉÉ ¨ÉÉÆMÉxÉÒ SÉÉÊ½þB EªÉÉäÆÊEò ªÉä MÉ±ÉiÉ +É®úÉä{É ±ÉMÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: If any objectionable remark is there, I will expunge it. ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ®úÉ¹]ÅÒªÉ +vªÉIÉ ºÉÉäÊxÉªÉÉ MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä VÉ¤É 12 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä xÉÉ¨É ±ÉäxÉä ºÉä ¦ÉÒ PÉ¤É®úÉiÉä ½þèÆ?

... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, 12 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÒ ®úÉiÉ EòÉä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ®úÉ¹]ÅÒªÉ +vªÉIÉ ºÉÉäÊxÉªÉÉ MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ xÉä º]õä]õ¨ÉäÆ]õ ÊnùªÉÉ EªÉÉäÆÊEò 10 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä xÉÉ®úÉªÉhÉ{ÉÖ®ú ¨ÉäÆ nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ ½þÖ<Ç lÉÒ, =ºÉEòä {É½þ±Éä ¶ÉÆEò®ú¤ÉÒPÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ 30 ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ 25 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä ½þÖ<Ç lÉÒ* Ê{ÉUô±Éä nùÉä-iÉÒxÉ ºÉÉ±ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉBÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ lÉÒÆ +Éè®ú nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉä BEò-BEò Eò®úEòä ¨ÉÉ®úÉ VÉÉ ®ú½þÉ lÉÉ* ...(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, Ê¡ò®ú ½þ¨É ¦ÉÒ <xÉEòä Ê¨ÉÊxÉº]õ®ú EòÉä ¦ÉÉ¹ÉhÉ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úxÉä nùäÆMÉä ...(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ªÉ½þÒ ¨ÉxÉÖ´ÉÉnùÒ |É´ÞÉÊiiÉ ½þè +Éè®ú <ºÉÒÊ±ÉB Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä {ÉÚ®úÒ ¤Éä±]õ ½þè -- ¦ÉÉäVÉ{ÉÖ®ú, ºÉÒ´ÉÉxÉ, VÉ½þÉxÉÉ¤ÉÉnù, ªÉ½þÉÆ ½þ¨Éä¶ÉÉ nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ {É®ú +]ÅÉìÊºÉ]õÒWÉ ½þÉäiÉÒ lÉÒÆ* EòÉ®úhÉ EªÉÉ ½þè? =xÉEòÉä VÉÉä ®úÉäVÉÆnùÉ®úÒ Ê¨É±ÉiÉÒ lÉÒ, MÉä½þÚÆ vÉÉxÉ nùÉä ÊEò±ÉÉä Ê¨É±ÉiÉÉ lÉÉ* VÉÉä ±Éèhb÷ ±Éä¤É®ú BäE]õ ºÉä 30-32 ¯û{ÉªÉÉ Ê¨É±ÉxÉÉ lÉÉ, ´É½þÉÆ 10 ¯û{ÉªÉÉ ®úÉäVÉÆnùÉ®úÒ =xÉEòÉä Ê¨É±ÉiÉÒ lÉÒ* ªÉ½þ Eò<Ç ºÉÉ±ÉÉäÆ ºÉä ½þÉäiÉÉ lÉÉ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ Ê{ÉUô±Éä SÉÉ®ú ºÉÉ±ÉÉäÆ ºÉä VÉÉä ½þiªÉÉBÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ lÉÒÆ, ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉ EòÉ¨É xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÉ ÊEò ¦ÉÉäVÉ{ÉÖ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉ¤É EòÆºÉxÉ]Åä¶ÉxÉ ºÉäx]õ®ú ¤ÉxÉ MÉªÉÉ Ê¡ò®ú b÷ägø ºÉÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ VÉ½þÉxÉÉ¤ÉÉnù ¨ÉäÆ =ºÉEòÉ ºÉäx]õ®ú Ê¶É¡]õ ½þÉä MÉªÉÉ* EªÉÉ Eò®úiÉÉ lÉÉ +É{ÉEòÉ <Æ]õäÊ±ÉVÉäxºÉ Êb÷{ÉÉ]õÇ¨ÉäÆ]õ +Éè®ú {ÉÖÊ±ÉºÉ Êb÷{ÉÉ]õÇ¨ÉäÆ]õ? nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉBÆ <iÉxÉÒ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þèÆ +Éè®ú +É{É +É®úÉ¨É ºÉä, SÉèxÉ ºÉä ¤Éè`öä ½þèÆ* <ºÉEòÒ ´ÉVÉ½þ ºÉä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ®úÉ¹]ÅÒªÉ +vªÉIÉ ºÉÉäÊxÉªÉÉ VÉÒ xÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò She has no moral right to run the Government. <ºÉEòä {ÉÒUôä ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ lÉÒÆ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨ÉèÆ ¤ÉiÉÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉèÆ Eò½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò VÉ¤É ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ EòäªÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®ú ºÉEòiÉÒ, nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉ JªÉÉ±É xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®ú ºÉEòiÉÒ, =xÉEòÒ ½þiªÉÉBÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ ½þèÆ iÉÉä EòÉÆOÉäºÉ EòÉ ½þ¨Éä¶ÉÉ ºÉä ªÉ½þ |ÉlÉ¨É EòiÉÇ´ªÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè, SÉÉ½þä ºÉiiÉÉ Ê¨É±Éä ªÉÉ xÉ Ê¨É±Éä, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ½þ¨É ½þ¨Éä¶ÉÉ nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ, +ÉÊnù´ÉÉÊºÉªÉÉäÆ +Éè®ú MÉ®úÒ¤ÉÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* +É{É <ºÉ MÉ±ÉiÉ¡ò½þ¨ÉÒ ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉiÉ VÉÉ<ªÉä ÊEò ½þ¨É ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ¤ÉÉä±É ®ú½þä lÉä* BEò º]õä]õ¨ÉèÆ]õ +É MÉªÉÉ iÉÉä +É{É =ºÉ Ê´É¶´ÉÉºÉ ºÉä <iÉxÉÒ ¦ÉÚ±É ¨ÉäÆ SÉ±Éä MÉªÉä ÊEò EòÉÆOÉäºÉ EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ +É{ÉEòÉä Ê¨É±É VÉÉªÉäMÉÉ, =ºÉEòä Ê±ÉB +É{É ¤ÉÉä±É ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ÊEò +ÉMÉä SÉÊ±ÉªÉä* +É{É ¦ÉÚ±É MÉªÉä, ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÉä ªÉÉnù Ênù±ÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ®úÉVÉºlÉÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ VÉ¤É +É{ÉEòÉ ®úÉVÉ lÉÉ iÉÉä ¦É®úiÉ{ÉÖ®ú ÊVÉ±Éä ¨ÉäÆ VÉÚxÉ, 1992 ¨ÉäÆ EòÖ¨½þä®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ +Éè®ú VÉÉ]õ´ÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉBÆ ½þÖ<Ç lÉÒÆ, ÊVÉºÉ¨ÉäÆ 12 VÉÉ]õÉäÆ Eòä PÉ®ú VÉ±ÉÉ ÊnùªÉä MÉªÉä, {ÉÖÊ±ÉºÉ +Éè®ú ¤Éc÷ä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ Eòä ½þÉäiÉä ½þÖB =xÉEòä PÉ®úÉäÆ EòÉä +ÉMÉ ±ÉMÉÉ<Ç, =x½þäÆ ÊVÉÆnùÉ VÉ±ÉÉ ÊnùªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ, =ºÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ¦ÉÉ®úiÉÒªÉ VÉxÉiÉÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ ®úÉVÉºlÉÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ®úÉVÉ lÉÉ* =ºÉ ´ÉEiÉ EªÉÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ ...(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +É{É ¤ÉèÊ`öªÉä nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ {É®ú +É{ÉEòÉä ¤Éc÷É {ªÉÉ®ú +É ®ú½þÉ ½þè, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ {ÉÚUô ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ¸ÉÒ ®úÉVÉ´ÉÒ®ú ÊºÉÆ½þ : VÉ¤É MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ EòÒ MÉ<Ç lÉÒ =ºÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ®úÉVÉºlÉÉxÉ +Éè®ú Eòäxpù ¨ÉäÆ ÊEòºÉEòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú lÉÒ ...(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +É{É VÉxÉ®ú±É ºÉèFòä]õ®úÒ ½þèÆ, VÉ®úÉ `öÒEò-`öÒEò ¤ÉÉäÊ±ÉªÉä* ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÉä <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¤ÉiÉÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ EòÖ¨½þä®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉ¤É 12 nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉä VÉ±ÉÉªÉÉ, ´É½þÉÆ ºÉ¤É ¤Éc÷ä ±ÉÉäMÉ JÉc÷ä lÉä, {ÉÖÊ±ÉºÉ +¡òºÉ®ú JÉc÷ä lÉä* ½þ¨É ºÉ¤É ±ÉÉäMÉ ´É½þÉÆ nùäJÉxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB MÉªÉä lÉä* iÉ¤É +É{ÉEòÒ +ÉÆJÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉÆºÉÚ xÉ½þÒÆ +ÉªÉä* +É{ÉxÉä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉ ÊEòªÉÉ, ´É½þÉÆ +É{ÉEòÉ Bä¨É lÉÉ, ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ÊMÉ®úÉxÉÉ +É{ÉEòÉ +Éì¤VÉäE]õ lÉÉ* +Æb÷®ú +É]õÒÇEò±É 74, ¦ÉÉ®úiÉÒªÉ ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ Eò½þiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò +É{ÉEòÉä EòÉ=ÆÊºÉ±É +Éì¡ò Ê¨ÉÊxÉº]õºÉÇ EòÒ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ ¦ÉäVÉxÉÒ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ MÞÉ½þ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÒ ºÉä {ÉÚUôÖÆMÉÉ ÊEò VÉÉä +Æb÷®ú +É]õÒÇEò±É 74 +É{ÉxÉä ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ VÉÒ EòÉä |ÉlÉ¨É Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ ¦ÉäVÉÒ lÉÒ, EªÉÉ =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÒ lÉÒ? ½þ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þ ¤ÉiÉÉ nùÒÊVÉB* 25 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä VÉÉä <xºÉÒb÷èÆ]õ ½þÉä MÉ<Ç, ¶ÉÆEò®ú Ê¤ÉMÉ½þÉ ¨ÉäÆ <xºÉÒb÷èÆ]õ Eòä ¤ÉÉnù EªÉÉ +É{ÉxÉä |ÉäºÉÒb÷äÆ]õ EòÒ Ê®úEò¨ÉäÆb÷ä¶ÉxÉ EòÒ lÉÒ ªÉÉ 10 iÉÉ®úÒJÉ EòÉä VÉÉä ½þiªÉÉBÆ ½þÖ<ÇÆ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ ¨ÉèÆ =xÉºÉä ¦ÉÒ {ÉÚUôxÉä ´ÉÉ±ÉÉ ½þÚÆ +Éè®ú ®úhÉ´ÉÒ®ú ºÉäxÉÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉºÉä ¦ÉÒ {ÉÚUôxÉä ´ÉÉ±ÉÉ ½þÚÆ, EªÉÉäÆÊEò +É{É ®úhÉ´ÉÒ®ú ºÉäxÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ, nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÉZÉÒnùÉ®ú ®ú½þä ½þèÆ, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉºÉä ¦ÉÒ {ÉÚUôÚÆMÉÉ* ...(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ BäºÉä xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäMÉÒ* ºÉiiÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨É EòÖUô ÊnùxÉ +É{ÉEòä ºÉÉlÉÒ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¸ÉÒ nùä´Éäxpù ¤É½þÉnùÖ®ú ®úÉªÉ (ºÉÖ±iÉÉxÉ{ÉÖ®ú): ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, <ºÉEòÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ÊxÉÊ¶SÉiÉ ½þÉä VÉÉB* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: You have to withdraw that word. You are casting aspersions on the Chair. +É{ÉEòÉä ¨ÉÉ±ÉÚ¨É ½þè ÊEò 22 Ê¨ÉxÉ]õ =xÉEòä FòèÊb÷]õ {É®ú ½þèÆ* Ê¡ò®ú +É{É BäºÉÉ EªÉÉäÆ Eò½þ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ? ( Interruptions) Plese withdraw your words.

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ nùä´Éäxpù ¤É½þÉnùÖ®ú ®úÉªÉ (ºÉÖ±iÉÉxÉ{ÉÖ®ú): ¨ÉèÆxÉä EòÖUô xÉ½þÒÆ Eò½þÉ ½þè, ¨ÉèÆxÉä ÊºÉ¡òÇ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ÊxÉ´ÉänùxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: That is not fair on your part. I am conducting the House. They have 22 minutes in their account.

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ nùä´Éäxpù ¤É½þÉnùÖ®ú ®úÉªÉ : ºÉ®ú, +É{ÉxÉä <ºÉEòä Ê±ÉB +É`ö ¤ÉVÉä iÉEò EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ÊnùªÉÉ lÉÉ, ¨ÉèÆxÉä ªÉ½þÒ ÊxÉ´ÉänùxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ lÉÉ* ¸ÉÒ ºÉÖ¶ÉÒ±É EòÖ¨ÉÉ®ú Ê¶ÉÆnùä : ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ½þ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ¤ÉiÉÉªÉä ÊEò ªÉ½þ Ê®úEò¨ÉäÆb÷ä¶ÉxÉ Eò¤É ½þÖ<Ç, ®úÒºÉ¤ÉÊ¨É]õ Eò¤É ½þÖ+É +Éè®ú ®úÒºÉ¤ÉÊ¨É]õ ¨ÉäÆ EªÉÉ ´É½þÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ +ÉxÉÒ SÉÉÊ½þB* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ VÉ¤É ®úÒºÉ¤ÉÊ¨É¶ÉxÉ ¦ÉÒ +ÉiÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä xÉ<Ç ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉ¤ºÉ]õäÆÊ¶ÉªÉ±É +Éè®ú ºÉ¤ºÉ]õäÆÊ]õ´É EòèºÉä +É<Ç* EªÉÉäÆÊEò {É½þ±ÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ iÉÉä {ÉÚhÉÇ ºÉ¤ºÉ]õäÆÊ]õ´É lÉÒ Ê¡ò®ú =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ{±ÉÒ¨Éäx]õ®úÒ EòèºÉä +É MÉªÉÉ* ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ªÉÊnù |ÉäºÉÒb÷äÆ]õ ºÉÉ½þ¤É EòÉä Ê®úE¨ÉäÆb÷ Eò®úxÉÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ, iÉÉä ºÉ¤Éº]õäÆÊ¶ÉªÉ±É {É®ú ½þÒ ºÉèÊEòÆb÷ ]õÉ¨É {É®ú Ê®úE¨ÉäÆb÷ Eò®ú ºÉEòiÉä ½þèÆ, ºÉ{±ÉÒ¨ÉäÆ]ÅÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ Eò½þÉÆ ºÉä +É MÉ<ÇÆ, ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ ½þ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¤ÉiÉÉB* ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ¨ÉèÆ ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ EòÉä {ÉÚUôxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò =x½þÉäÆxÉä ®úhÉ´ÉÒ®ú ºÉäxÉÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ¤É½þÖiÉ ¤ÉÉä±ÉÉ ÊEò =ºÉEòÉä ¤ÉÒ.VÉä.{ÉÒ.EòÉ ºÉ½þªÉÉäMÉ ½þè* ªÉÊnù BäºÉÉ ½þÉä, iÉÉä Ê¡ò®ú EªÉÉäÆ b÷®úiÉä ½þÉä, +É{É ºÉÒ.¤ÉÒ.+É<Ç. <xE´ÉÉªÉ®úÒ EªÉÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úÉiÉä? ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉºÉä {ÉÚUôxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò EªÉÉ +É{É ºÉÒ.¤ÉÒ.+É<Ç.<xE´ÉÉªÉ®úÒ Eò®úÉBÆMÉä? ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ´Éä ½þÉÆ ¨ÉäÆ ÊºÉ®ú Ê½þ±ÉÉ ®ú½þä ½þèÆ* ´Éä ºÉÒ.¤ÉÒ.+É<Ç. 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Eòä nù¤ÉÉ´É ¨ÉäÆ +ÉEò®ú, +JÉ¤ÉÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ +ÉªÉÉ ½þè, =xÉEòÉä ´ÉÉÊ{ÉºÉ ®úJÉxÉÉ {Éc÷É* ªÉ½þ ¶É¨ÉÇ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ½þè* <ºÉÊ±ÉB Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ±ÉMÉÉ ½þè, ¨ÉèÆ +{ÉxÉÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÒ iÉ®ú¡ò ºÉä =ºÉEòÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB JÉc÷É ½þÖ+É ½þÚÆ* Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ®úÉVÉxÉèÊiÉEò ®úÉVªÉ{ÉÉ±É EòÒ ¨ÉÆ¶ÉÉ {ÉÚ®úÒ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB ªÉ½þ ±ÉMÉÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ <ºÉEòÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* b÷É. VÉªÉxiÉ ®úÆMÉ{ÉÒ (º´É¶ÉÉºÉÒ ÊVÉ±ÉÉ-+ºÉ¨É): ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ¨ÉèÆ Eò±É ºÉä ¤É½þºÉ ºÉÖxÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ +Éè®ú ¤É½þºÉ ºÉÖxÉxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù ¨ÉèÆ nùÉä ¤ÉÉiÉÉäÆ ºÉä EòÉ¡òÒ {É®úä¶ÉÉxÉ ½þÖ+É ½þÚÆ - {É½þ±ÉÉ ªÉ½þ ÊEò nùÉäxÉÉäÆ {ÉIÉÉäÆ EòÒ iÉ®ú¡ò ºÉä ÊEòºÉÒ xÉä ¦ÉÒ {ÉÚ®úÒ Eò½þÉxÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉiÉÉ<Ç* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : b÷É. ®úÆMÉ{ÉÒ, {ÉÚ®úÒ Eò½þÉxÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉiÉÉxÉÉ* DR. JAYANTA RONGPI:Everybody has spoken the half truth. Nobody has spoken the full truth. The only reason is that everybody has skipped the main incident. There was an incident in Laxmanpur-Bathe, there was a second incident in Shankarbigha and then the third one took place in Narainpur. The main culprit was the Ranbir Sena. =ºÉ xÉ®úºÉÆ½þÉ®ú Eòä Ê±ÉB ®úhÉ¤ÉÒ®ú ºÉäxÉÉ =iiÉ®únùÉªÉÒ ½þè ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ÊEòºÉÒ xÉä ¦ÉÒ ®úhÉ¤ÉÒ®ú ºÉäxÉÉ Eòä {ÉÉä±ÉÒÊ]õEò±É xÉèEºÉäºÉ Eòä Ê´É¹ÉªÉ {É®ú ®úÉä¶ÉxÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ b÷É±ÉÒ* nùÚºÉ®úÉ, nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉ VÉÉä xÉ®úºÉÆ½þÉ®ú ½þÖ+É ½þè, +iªÉÉSÉÉ®ú ½þÖ+É, =xÉEòÉä ¨ÉÉ®úÉ MÉªÉÉ, ÊEòºÉÒ xÉä ¦ÉÒ <ºÉ iÉ®ú½þ EòÒ PÉ]õxÉÉ EòÒ {ÉÖxÉ®úÉ´ÞÉÊiÉ ®úÉäEòxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ EòÉä<Ç `öÉäºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉiÉÉ<Ç* Everybody was interested in making political scores and I have met the families of the people who were killed by the Ranbir Sena people. I have met the people who were there during that night. ÊEòºÉÒ ¦ÉÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ xÉä =xÉEòÒ ¦ÉÉ¹ÉÉ, =xÉEòÒ ´ÉänùxÉÉ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò½þÉ, <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ {É®úä¶ÉÉxÉ ½þÚÆ* They were saying that Ranbir Sena was parented by both the Congress and the BJP and at present adopted by Samata Party and the RJD. That is why probably nobody is interested in finding out the actual political nexus of the Ranbir Sena and the other political parties. And that is why when this debate was going on I was very much perturbed.

That is why I cannot support this Resolution of approving President's rule in Bihar. It is not that I am an admirer of the RJD Government. ¨ÉèÆ =xÉEòä SÉÉ½þxÉä ´ÉÉ±ÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÚÆ ¤ÉÊ±Eò ¨Éä®úä EòÉè¨É®úäb÷, Eò¨ªÉÖÊxÉº]õ, ¨ÉÉEòÇÊºÉº]õ, ±ÉèxÉÒÊxÉº]õ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä VÉÉä ºÉÉlÉÒ ½þèÆ, =x½þÉäÆxÉä ±ÉMÉÉiÉÉ®ú +É®ú.VÉä.b÷Ò., ®úhÉ¤ÉÒ®ú ºÉäxÉÉ Eòä ÊJÉ±ÉÉ¡ò, nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ {É®ú ½þÉäxÉä ´ÉÉ±Éä +iªÉÉSÉÉ®ú Eòä ÊJÉ±ÉÉ¡ò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ VÉxÉiÉÉ Eòä ¨ÉÚ´É¨ÉèÆ]õ EòÉä ¤É®úEò®úÉ®ú ®úJÉÉ ½þè* +MÉ®ú <xÉ ºÉ¦ÉÒ {ÉÉÊ]õÇªÉÉäÆ Eòä ¤ÉÒSÉ ¨ÉäÆ ÊEòºÉÒ xÉä +É®ú.VÉä.b÷Ò. ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÒ iÉÉxÉÉ¶ÉÉ½þÒ EòÉ ºÉÉ¨ÉxÉÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä ¨Éä®úä ºÉÉlÉÒ xÉä ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè* ¨Éä®úä +{ÉxÉä ÊVÉMÉ®úÒ nùÉäºiÉ, ÊVÉxÉEòÉä +É{É VÉÉxÉiÉä ½þÉäÆMÉä, VÉÉä VÉ´ÉÉ½þ®ú ±ÉÉ±É xÉä½þ°ü ªÉÚÊxÉ´ÉÊºÉÇ]õÒ Eòä |ÉäVÉÒb÷äÆ]õ lÉä, ÊVÉxÉEòÉ xÉÉ¨É SÉxpù¶ÉäJÉ®ú lÉÉ, =xÉEòÉä ¨ÉèÆxÉä JÉÉäªÉÉ ½þè, ÊºÉ´ÉÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ÊnùxÉ Eòä =VÉÉ±Éä ¨ÉäÆ =xÉEòÉä ¨ÉÉ®úÉ MÉªÉÉ* ´Éä ÊºÉ¡òÇ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä ½þÒ xÉ½þÒÆ, ¤ÉÊ±Eò ¦ÉÉ®úiÉ Eòä ºÉÆ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ{ÉÚhÉÇ He was the most promising youth leader of Jawaharlal Nehru University? He was killed in the broad day light in Siwan. Shri Lalu Prasad, you know who the killers are. Have you taken any action? No. +É{ÉxÉä EòÖUô Eònù¨É xÉ½þÒÆ =`öÉªÉÉ ½þè* =ºÉÒ iÉ®ú½þ ¨ÉèÆxÉä ¶ÉÉªÉnù ¨Éä®úä ºÉèÆEòc÷ÉäÆ ºÉÉÊlÉªÉÉäÆ EòÉä JÉÉäªÉÉ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ +É®ú.VÉä. b÷Ò EòÉ SÉÉ½þxÉä ´ÉÉ±ÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÚÆ* =xÉEòä ÊJÉ±ÉÉ¡ò ¨Éä®úÉ +ÉxnùÉä±ÉxÉ VÉÉ®úÒ ½þè +Éè®ú VÉÉ®úÒ ®ú½þäMÉÉ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ EòäxpùÒªÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÒ VÉÉä xÉÒªÉiÉ ½þè,=ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉÖZÉä EòÖUô ºÉÉ¡ò xÉVÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ +ÉªÉÉ*ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÒ xÉÒªÉiÉ JÉ®úÉ¤É ½þè* ¨ÉÖZÉä =¨¨ÉÒnù lÉÒ ÊEò Êb÷¡òäÆºÉ Ê¨ÉÊxÉº]õ®ú VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇhb÷ÒWÉ VÉÒ {ÉÚ®úÒ Eò½þÉxÉÒ ¤ÉiÉÉBÆMÉä, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ =x½þÉäÆxÉä xÉ½þÒÆ ¤ÉiÉÉ<Ç* He has spoken about the election. He has read eloquently the election manifesto of the Congress but that was only half story. He has not spoken the full story. What was the full story? Ranabir Sena published leaflets. Ranabir Sena gave diktat to support your party, Samata Party and BJP in the last elections. That is the story. That is why, I have said that everybody has spoken half truth to make political score over others. I can also say xÉ®úÊºÉÆ½þ ®úÉ´É VÉÒ EòÒ VÉÉä ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú lÉÒ, =ºÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú Eòä BEò ¨ÉÆjÉÒ VÉÉä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä lÉä, =xÉEòä ºÉÉlÉ ¦ÉÒ ®úhÉ´ÉÒ®ú ºÉäxÉÉ EòÉ Ê®ú¶iÉÉ lÉÉ* ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉÉ®úä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÉä ¨ÉÉ±ÉÚ¨É ½þè, ºÉÉ®úÒ VÉxÉiÉÉ EòÉä ¨ÉÉ±ÉÚ¨É ½þè* ªÉ½þÉÆ iÉEò ÊEò +É®ú.VÉä.b÷Ò. xÉä ¦ÉÒ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ-ºÉ¨ÉªÉ {É®ú =xÉEòÒ ¨Énùnù EòÒ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ EòÉÆFòÒ]õ ¨ÉäÆ nùÉä ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ Eò½þEò®ú +{ÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ Eò°üÆMÉÉ* <ºÉÊ±ÉB Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ {ÉÊ¤±ÉEò EòÉä Eò½þxÉÉ ½þè, The Ranabir Sena has got strategic alliance with BJP and Congress. They have tactical alliance with both Samata and RJD. So, what concrete steps have been suggested by this highest forum of this country to break this nexus? That is why, nobody has spoken in concrete terms. Nobody has spoken in terms of concrete steps to protect the Dalits in the killing fields of Bihar. If it is a very emergency case, then that immediately you want promulgation of President's Rule so that you can protect the Dalits, it is all right. Now several weeks have passed. Have you taken any concrete steps? I have seen in North-East because I belong to North-East. When an organisation is banned, when President's Rule is proclaimed, then immediately the State machinery is put into action against those law breakers. For the last few weeks I have seen that no such concrete action has been taken to protect the Dalits in the field, in the ground level. We have seen bickering over political Governor, apolitical Governor. Governor is coming by train and returning by flight. That is going on.

Now, there is no concrete step at ground level to contain the menace of the Ranabir Sena. I have not seen it. Are you ready? Is the Government or any other political party ready? You have practised it. You have experimented in Jammu and Kashmir the concept of Village Defence Committee. In the Village Defence Committee, you have given arms to the people and even the Army people are engaged to train them so that they can fight against terrorism across the border that is part of Kashmir. I have heard eloquent speeches from the Congress people. I have heard eloquent speech from the Treasury Benches but I have not seen this type of proposal to concretely fight the Ranabir Sena people. Are you prepared to form Village Defence Committee in each village of Jehanabhad, in each village of Bhojpur and in each village of the central Bihar? You give them arms so that they can fight Ranabir Sena. Is there any proposal? Without this proposal you want me to support the President's Rule. How can I support? Yes, I have my own fight with the RJD. I will fight it out. I will give my blood, if necessary. My comrades have been giving their blood to finish the autocratic forces of RJD or any other people who allow this Ranabir Sena.

But that does not mean that I should support this Resolution approving the promulgation of President's rule in Bihar where you have not taken any concrete steps to fight the feudal forces. ªÉ½þ +½þ¨ ¨ÉÖqÉ ½þè VÉÉä ®úhÉ´ÉÒ®ú ºÉäxÉÉ +Éè®ú {ÉÉäÊ±ÉÊ]õEò±É {ÉÉ]õÒÇVÉ EòÉ xÉäEºÉäVÉ ½þè, =ºÉEòÉä BEºÉ{ÉÉäVÉ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB, particularly to expose the Ranbir Sena's links with political people, there should be a CBI inquiry. Will this be done? ¨ÉèÆ =¨¨ÉÒnù Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ +¦ÉÒ VÉ¤É ´É½þÉÆ Eòäxpù EòÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ½þÉä VÉÉBMÉÉ, +É{É ºÉÒ.¤ÉÒ.+É<Ç. ºÉä VÉÉÆSÉ Eò®úÉBÆ ÊEò ÊEòxÉ ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò nù±ÉÉäÆ EòÉ ®úhÉ´ÉÒ®ú ºÉäxÉÉ Eòä ºÉÉlÉ xÉäEºÉäVÉ ½þè* Thirdly, Ranbir Sena was functioning from the Police Lines of Patna city. That probably Lalu Prasad Ji will not deny. Their headquarter was functioning from the Police Lines of Patna. They were organising Press Conferences. They were openly declaring that they will again kill people.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Please conclude now.

DR. JAYANTA RONGPI : Everybody knows who are the Ranbir Sena people. Is the Government prepared to declare them as proclaimed offenders? Are they prepared to confiscate the gun licences given to the Ranbir Sena people? Are they prepared to confiscate the property of the Ranbir Sena people?

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Now nothing will go on record. Shri S.S. Owaisi.

DR. JAYANTA RONGPI : That is why I oppose this Resolution approving President's rule in Bihar. I cannot support it.

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(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ : +É{É ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ EòÊ®úB* ¸ÉÒ ¶ÉEòÖxÉÒ SÉÉèvÉ®úÒ : ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÉä {ÉºÉÇxÉ±É Eò½þÉxÉÒ ºÉÖxÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) 1995 Eòä SÉÖxÉÉ´É ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉèÆ EòÉ=ÆÊ]õÆMÉ ¤ÉÚlÉ {É®ú ¨ÉÉèVÉÚnù lÉÉ +Éè®ú <ºÉÒ ¤ÉÒSÉ ´É½þÉÆ {É®ú MÉÉä±ÉÒ SÉ±ÉÒ* Eò<Ç ±ÉÉäMÉ ¨ÉÉ®úä MÉB* ´É½þÉÆ BEò ¨ÉÆjÉÒ xÉä ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ |ÉºÉÉnù EòÉä JÉ¤É®ú nùÒ ÊEò MÉÉä±ÉÒ SÉ±ÉÒ ½þè* <ºÉ {É®ú <x½þÉäÆxÉä ¶ÉÚ]Þõ-B]õ-ºÉÉ<]õ Eòä +Éb÷Ç®ú DM +Éè®ú SP EòÉä nùä ÊnùB* MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Tathagata Satpathy.

... (Interruptions)

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Nothing will go on record except Shri Satpathy's speech.

(Interruptions)*

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* Not Recorded.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY (DHENKANAL): Mr. Deputy-Speaker, Sir, for the past two days the House, and I would say the whole nation which has been watching the proceedings of the House, has been educated.

The use of article 356 in Bihar has been agitating the nation and has been agitating the hon. Members of this House for the past more than two days. It is difficult to say whether article 356 has been used or misused in Bihar because the difference between these two words is only a `mis'. The article, nobody will be in two minds, is essentially extremely dangerous, unethical, authoritarian and is anti-democracy.

Although the Constitution of India has created a federation with a bias in favour of the Centre, within the sphere allotted to the States, they are supreme. Yet what guarantee does the common voter, the common citizen have that the Centre will be impartial? Because history has consistently shown it to be otherwise.

Today, I would like to draw your attention to the many speeches that have been delivered by the leaders of the Congress party and the parties that have been supporting them. Many crocodile tears have been shed, and I think, the floor of the House is wet with their crocodile tears. But let them not forget that when they were in power, they had consistently, as a policy, misutilised article 356 of the Indian Constitution thereby morally abrogating their rights today, to speak a single word against the misutilisation or utilisation of the same article by another party that is in power today.

Sir, we have got this opportunity to discuss this issue because of the ruling of the Supreme Court in the S.R. Bommai case. Thanks to the Supreme Court that these matters can be raised in the House and can be discussed. It is indeed a pity that a clean and good Government that we have at the Centre today, because of certain fumbling or certain knee jerk reactions, all the good work that the Government has been doing, has somehow or the other willy-nilly, due to some bad luck, may be, has come to naught.

Let us go back to the time when the nuclear explosion took place. The intelligence of the country failed completely for which, within three days, Pakistan exploded another bomb, and the Western powers had imposed an economic sanction which affected our economy, and the people did not realise the achievements that this Government and the scientists of this country made. And, the efforts went completely to naught.

Again, let us come back to the historic and the immense step that the hon. Prime Minister took by going to Pakistan by taking such a huge risk which probably, as the newspaper reports say, people within his party or people within the core group of his party also opposed. Yet, that great step has been marred today because of some bungling as the use of article 356 in Bihar. It is not that any Government can certify that if we remove `x' from `y' in power, we can bring law and order under control. That is not the situation in India today. Today, the common man in India has lost his faith on all of us sitting here. There is no colour, no name, no symbol that differentiates us. All politicians have been dumped in the heap of people who are corrupt, who are inefficient and who have done nothing for this country in the past fifty years. And, this epithet is more applicable to the people who are sitting in the Opposition today because they had been ruling this country for the past 47 to 48 years. Today when they speak about the Governor's office, about the Governor being politically motivated, let them not forget what they did when they were in power, when Dharmveera was used in West Bengal to subvert the Constitution for the interest of the Congress party.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Shri Satpathy, please conclude now.

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : I am concluding within two minutes. Sir, we have the Kansa Mama of Mathura and the Jarasandh of... (Interruptions)...You know where. Whenever you tear Jarasandh apart, it always tends to come back. And even Bhimsen could not tear Jarasandh apart unless and until -- those who have read the Mahabharata know it -- that crucial line was drawn.

Sir, this Government today has taken up the responsibility of Bhimsen and has torn a Jarasandh apart. But now the question is, we have to see whether that delicate line is being drawn or not.

Sir, I would just end my speech with one last thing. The Congress today speaks about the atrocities on Dalits.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Will you please conclude now?

SHRI TATHAGATA SATPATHY : I am concluding Sir.

Sir, everybody knows that the fight of whether it is the Ranveer Sena or whether it is the Dalits, basically, it boils down to what Marx would have said between `the haves' and the `have nots'.

The Congress has only used the Dalits as an item to get votes and as something which suits their convenience. They have never in their whole history bothered about the true benefit that goes down to the Dalits. In any Congress-ruled State, whether it is in my State of Orissa or any Congress-ruled State today, if you go to the villages you find that the Dalits, the Harijans and the OBCs are in the worst economic situation. It is due to the fault of the Congress. Today when the Congress says that they oppose Article 356, I feel like laughing over it because their hypocrisy is exposed. But I would also request the party that is in power today that let us not emulate those people because they have destroyed this country in the past half a century. Let us create a new history. Let us be judicious and proper. People vote a Government for five years. We have been voted for five years. If our Government has been voted for five years, Shri Lalu Prasad's Government has also been voted for five years. Let the people take a decision when the time comes whether they will again vote for Shri Lalu Prasad's Government or they will discord it.

Finally as a Member of the Biju Janata Dal, I on behalf of my party -I have the permission of my party President to say so -- wholeheartedly support the resolution approving the imposition of Article 356 in Bihar.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: The hon. Home Minister will now speak.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : There were three speakers from Samata party. But our second Member has not been allowed to speak. Is this justice? Kindly allow five minutes.

MR. DEPUTY-SPEAKER: Let us have the reply now.

MÞÉ½þ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ (¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±É EÞò¹hÉ +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ): ={ÉÉvªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, +ÉVÉ |ÉÉiÉ: EòÉ±É 12 ¤ÉVÉä ºÉä ±ÉäEò®ú ªÉ½þ ¤É½þºÉ ¶ÉÖ°ü ½þÖ<Ç ½þè +Éè®ú ºÉÉgøä +É`ö PÉÆ]õä ºÉä +ÊvÉEò <ºÉ ¤É½þºÉ ¨ÉäÆ ÊVÉxÉ-ÊVÉxÉ ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉÉäÆ xÉä ¦ÉÉMÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ ½þè, =xÉ ºÉ¦ÉÒ Eòä |ÉÊiÉ ¨ÉèÆ +É¦ÉÉ®ú ´ªÉEiÉ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò +ÉVÉ EòÒ ¤É½þºÉ ¨ÉäÆ iÉÒxÉ Eòäxpù Ê¤ÉÆnùÚÆ lÉä ÊVÉxÉEòä <nùÇ-ÊMÉnùÇ ºÉÉ®úÒ SÉSÉÉÇ SÉ±ÉiÉÒ ®ú½þÒ* {É½þ±ÉÉ ¨ÉÖqÉ ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ EòÒ vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÒ ={ÉÉnùäªÉiÉÉ, =ºÉEòÒ +É´É¶ªÉEòiÉÉ, =ºÉEòä ºÉ½þÒ ={ÉªÉÉäMÉ EòÉ lÉÉ* ªÉ½þ BEò |É¨ÉÖJÉ ¨ÉÖqÉ lÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ ºÉnùxÉ EòÉä <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉä +´ÉMÉiÉ Eò®úÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ÊVÉºÉ +xiÉ®úÉÇVªÉÒªÉ {ÉÊ®ú¹Énù EòÉ =±±ÉäJÉ <ÆpùVÉÒiÉ VÉÒ xÉä +{ÉxÉä ¦ÉÉ¹ÉhÉ ¨ÉäÆ ÊEòªÉÉ +Éè®ú =x½þÉäÆxÉä ºÉ½þÒ ¤ÉiÉÉªÉÉ ÊEò EòÉ¡òÒ ´É¹ÉÉäÇÆ iÉEò VÉ¤É iÉEò EòÉÆOÉäºÉ EòÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ lÉÉ EòÉ¡òÒ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ iÉEò iÉÉä ´É½þ ¤ÉxÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ +Éè®ú VÉ¤É ¤ÉxÉÒ iÉÉä ÊxÉ¹ÊFòªÉ ¤ÉxÉÒ ®ú½þÒ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ºÉÆªÉÖEiÉ ¨ÉÉäSÉÉÇ EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú +ÉxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÊFòªÉiÉÉ +É<Ç* ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉä ¦ÉÒ =ºÉEòÉä {ÉÖxÉMÉÇÊ`öiÉ ÊEòªÉÉ +Éè®ú =ºÉEòÒ ºÉÒvÉä ºÉÊ¨ÉÊiÉ ¤ÉxÉÉ<Ç, ÊVÉºÉEòä +vªÉIÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä |ÉÊiÉ®úIÉÉ ¨ÉÆjÉÒ ½þèÆ*

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I entirely agree that they cannot be the basis. Even an incompetent Government has to be suffered. =x½þÉäÆxÉä +{ÉxÉÉ +xÉÖ¦É´É ¤ÉiÉÉiÉä ½þÖB Eò½þÉ ÊEò ¨ÉèÆ ±ÉIÉ¨ÉhÉ{ÉÖ®ú ¤ÉÉPÉä MÉªÉÉ lÉÉ* ´É½þÉÆ EòÉ nÞù¶ªÉ nùäJÉ Eò®ú ½þ¨ÉxÉä EªÉÉ-EªÉÉ Eònù¨É =`öÉB, ]õÉºEò ¡òÉäºÉÇ ¤ÉxÉÉªÉÒ, ªÉ½þ ÊEòªÉÉ, ´É½þ ÊEòªÉÉ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ +ºÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÖ+É* ½þÉä ºÉEòiÉÉ ½þè ´É½þ <xÉ<¡òäÊE]õ´É ½þÉä* ¨ÉèÆ <xpùVÉÒiÉ VÉÒ +Éè®ú ºÉÉäVÉ VÉÒ EòÒ ¦ÉÉ´ÉxÉÉ+ÉäÆ Eòä |ÉÊiÉ +Énù®ú |ÉEò]õ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* iÉÒºÉ®úä ºÉnùºªÉ ÊVÉºÉ EòÉ ¨ÉèÆ =±±ÉäJÉ Eò°üÆ ÊVÉx½þÉäÆxÉä vÉÉ®úÉ 356 Eòä |ÉÊiÉ +ºÉ½þ¨ÉÊiÉ |ÉEò]õ Eò®úiÉä ½þÖB Eò½þÉ ÊEò +ÉVÉ EòÒ {ÉÊ®úºlÉÊiÉ ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ xÉä ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨É <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ Eò®úäÆ +Éè®ú ´É½þ ½þèÆ ªÉä®úxÉxÉÉªÉb÷Ú VÉÒ* ¨ÉèÆ =xÉEòÉ ¦ÉÒ +Énù®ú Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +EòÉ±ÉÒ nù±É EòÉ ÊVÉFò VÉÉVÉÇ ºÉÉ½þ¤É +Éè®ú nùÚºÉ®úä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä ÊEòªÉÉ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉèÆ vÉÉ®úÉ 356 Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊVÉºÉ EòÉ ÊVÉFò <xpùVÉÒiÉ VÉÒ xÉä ÊEòªÉÉ ÊEò VÉÉä +É¨É ºÉ½þ¨ÉÊiÉ <Æ]õ®ú º]õä]õ EòÉ=ÆÊºÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þÒ lÉÒ ÊEò vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉä ºÉ¨ÉÉ{iÉ Eò®ú nùäxÉÉ nùä¶É EòÒ BEòiÉÉ, ºÉÖ®úIÉÉ +Éè®ú <ºÉEòä +±ÉÉ´ÉÉ ºÉÉä¨ÉxÉÉlÉ VÉÒ xÉä vÉÉ®úÉ 355 EòÉ ÊVÉFò Eò®úiÉä ½þÖB <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ ÊVÉFò xÉ½þÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ It is not merely external aggression and internal disturbance. It also says: `It is the duty of the Union to see that the Government of every State is carried on in accordance with the provisions of the Constitution.' VÉÉä iÉÒºÉ®úÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ½þè, =ºÉEòä Ê±ÉªÉä ÊEòºÉÒ +É¨ÉÇb÷ ®úèÊ¤ÉÊ±ÉªÉxÉ EòÒ VÉ°ü®úiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè, =ºÉEòä Ê±ÉªÉä ÊEòºÉÒ BEºÉ]õxÉÇ±É +OÉä¶ÉxÉ EòÒ VÉ°ü®úiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* ¨ÉèÆ Eò±É <ºÉ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ nùäJÉ ®ú½þÉ lÉÉ VÉ¤É ®úÒiÉÉ VÉÒ ¤ÉÉä±É ®ú½þÒ lÉÒ, iÉlªÉÉäÆ EòÉ =±±ÉäJÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þÒ lÉÒÆ, ÊEòºÉÒ ºÉnùºªÉ xÉä Eò½þ ÊnùªÉÉ ÊEò ªÉä ºÉ¤É ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ ´Éä Ê´ÉvÉÉxÉºÉ¦ÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þäÆ ±ÉäÊEòxÉ =xÉ ¤ÉÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉ ºÉÆ¤ÉÆvÉ Ê´ÉvÉÉxÉºÉ¦ÉÉ ºÉä xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÉ* =xÉEòÉ ºÉÆ¤ÉÆvÉ <ºÉºÉä lÉÉ ÊEò SÉÉ½þä ½þ¨É ºÉ¤É ºÉ½þ¨ÉiÉ ½þèÆ ªÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ +Éè®ú Eò<Ç ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ xÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ ÊºlÉÊiÉ Eòä Ê±ÉB ÊVÉ¨¨ÉänùÉ®ú VÉ½þÉÆ BEò +Éä®ú ¦ÉÚÊ¨É ºÉÖvÉÉ®ú xÉ ½þÉäxÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä nùÚºÉ®úÒ +Éä®ú ªÉÊnù ®úÉVÉxÉäiÉÉ ¶ÉÉºÉEò +Éè®ú +{É®úÉvÉÒ Eòä ¤ÉÒSÉ ¨ÉäÆ ºÉÉÆ`ö-MÉÉÆ`ö ½þÉä VÉÉªÉä iÉÉä Ê¡ò®ú +{É®úÉvÉ EòÉä EòÉä<Ç xÉ½þÒÆ ®úÉäEò ºÉEòiÉÉ* +MÉ®ú <xÉBÊ¡òÊ¶ÉBÆºÉÒ EòÉ EòÉ®úhÉ ªÉ½þÒ ½þè +Éè®ú ®úÒiÉÉ VÉÒ VÉÉä ¤ÉiÉÉ ®ú½þÒ lÉÒÆ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) Mr. Speaker, Sir, I have my right to say. ®úÒiÉÉ VÉÒ VÉÉä iÉlªÉ =ºÉ ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ¤ÉiÉÉ ®ú½þÒ lÉÒÆ, ±ÉÉ±ÉÚ VÉÒ Eòä {ÉÉºÉ =xÉ ¤ÉÉiÉÉäÆ EòÉ EòÉä<Ç VÉ´ÉÉ¤É xÉ½þÒÆ lÉÉ* I was watching the Congress Members here; they were squirming in their seats when Prof. Rita Verma and later on Shri Prabhunath Singh and today, Shri Shakuni Choudhary were speaking. iÉÒxÉ-iÉÒxÉ ºÉÉÆºÉnù <ºÉÒ ºÉnùxÉ ¨ÉäÆ ªÉ½þ Eò½þäÆ ÊEò ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä >ð{É®ú BäºÉÉ ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ½þiªÉÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÒ EòÉäÊ¶É¶É EòÒ MÉ<Ç ½þè ªÉÉ <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú ºÉä ¤É±ÉÉiEòÉ®ú ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè, <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú ºÉä SÉÉä®úÒ ½þÖ<Ç ªÉÉ b÷EòèiÉÒ ½þÖ<Ç ½þè +Éè®ú BäºÉÉ ºÉ¤É ¶ÉÉºÉEòÉäÆ Eòä ºÉÆ®úIÉhÉ Eòä EòÉ®úhÉ ½þÖ+É ½þè* SÉÉä®úÒ, b÷EòèiÉÒ ªÉÉ ¤É±ÉÉiEòÉ®ú ºÉ¤É ®úÉVªÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ½þÉä ®ú½þä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú VÉ¤É nùÊ±ÉiÉÉäÆ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ ½þÉä iÉÉä º´ÉÉ¦ÉÉÊ´ÉEò °ü{É ºÉä =ºÉEòÒ |ÉÊiÉÊFòªÉÉ ½þÉäMÉÒ* <ºÉÒÊ±ÉªÉä ¨ÉèÆ ªÉ½þ Eò½þxÉÉ SÉÉ½þÚÆMÉÉ ÊEò ¨ÉèÆ ¤É½þÖiÉ ºÉÉ®úä ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ +Énù®ú Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò SÉÉ½þä ½þ¨É ¨ÉiÉ¦Éänù ®úJÉiÉä ½þÉäÆ +Éè®ú ªÉÊnù ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä |ÉºiÉÉ´É EòÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þè iÉÉä ¦ÉÒ ¨ÉèÆ =ºÉEòÉ +Énù®ú Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* BEò ¨ÉÉxÉxÉÒªÉ ºÉnùºªÉ: ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ VÉÉä Eò½þÉ MÉªÉÉ* ¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±É EÞò¹hÉ +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ: ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉªÉÉ´ÉiÉÒ VÉÒ Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¦ÉÒ ¤ÉiÉÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ* ¨ÉÖZÉä xÉäiÉÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉÒ nù±É EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ ºÉÖxÉEò®ú ¤É½þÖiÉ ÊxÉ®úÉ¶ÉÉ ½þÖ<Ç* SÉÚÆÊEò ´Éä EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ Eòä ½þèÆ +Éè®ú EòÉÆOÉäºÉ EòÉ ªÉ½þ Ê®úEòÉb÷Ç ½þè, EòÖ±É Ê¨É±ÉÉEò®ú <ºÉ nùä¶É ¨ÉäÆ =ºÉxÉä 111 ¤ÉÉ®ú vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ |ÉªÉÉäMÉ ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ* VÉ¤É 1977 ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨É ±ÉÉäMÉ ºÉiiÉÉ ¨ÉäÆ lÉä +Éè®ú ¸ÉÒ ¨ÉÉä®úÉ®úVÉÒ nùäºÉÉ<Ç EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú lÉÒ, <ºÉ vÉÉ®úÉ EòÉ |ÉªÉÉäMÉ ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ* ¸ÉÒ SÉxpù¶ÉäJÉ®ú VÉÒ Eòä ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ¨ÉäÆ BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ +Éè®ú ¸ÉÒ ´ÉÒ.{ÉÒ.ÊºÉÆ½þ Eòä ºÉ¨ÉªÉ ¨ÉäÆ ¦ÉÒ <ºÉ vÉÉ®úÉ EòÉ <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ* <xÉ ºÉ¤É ¨ÉäÆ ºÉä 100 ¤ÉÉ®ú EòÉÆOÉäºÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ Eòä nùÉè®úÉxÉ <ºiÉä¨ÉÉ±É ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) Eò½þÉÆ Eò½þÉÆ ÊEòºÉ +ÉvÉÉ®ú {É®ú ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ iÉÉä {ÉiÉÉ SÉ±ÉäMÉÉ ÊEò Êb÷]õÉäÊ®úB¶ÉxÉ +É¡ò ±ÉÉì BÆb÷ +Éb÷Ç®ú Eòä +ÉvÉÉ®ú {É®ú ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ¨Éä®úä >ð{É®ú ªÉ½þ {ÉÉ¤ÉÆnùÒ ½þè ÊEò ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ VÉÒ Eòä xÉÉ¨É EòÉ =±±ÉäJÉ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®ú ºÉEòiÉÉ ´É®úxÉÉ ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉEòÉä Ê´ÉºiÉÉ®ú ºÉä ¤ÉiÉÉiÉÉ, =ºÉä ¨ÉèÆ ¤ÉiÉÉxÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ SÉÉ½þiÉÉ* <ºÉÊ±ÉªÉä <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ ={ÉªÉÉäMÉ ¨ÉiÉ EòÊ®úªÉä EªÉÉäÆÊEò +É{ÉEòä >ð{É®ú ¦ÉÒ {ÉÉ¤ÉÆnùÒ ½þè* <ºÉ ºÉÆnù¦ÉÇ ¨ÉäÆ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ {É½þ±ÉÒ ¤ÉÉ®ú ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ 1968 ¨ÉäÆ ±ÉMÉÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ lÉÉ +Éè®ú iÉ¤É ¦ÉÒ 356 vÉÉ®úÉ EòÉ ={ÉªÉÉäMÉ ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ lÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ BEò {ÉÖ®úÉxÉÒ Ê®ú{ÉÉä]õÇ nùäJÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò 356 vÉÉ®úÉ EòÉ ={ÉªÉÉäMÉ Eò®úEòä ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ Eò½þÉÆ Eò½þÉÆ ±ÉÉMÉÚ ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ* President's Rule had to be imposed in Bihar because the Administration was `practically' at a standstill; Services had completely lost their morale; some reasonable grievances above the law and order situation; things were so bad that the number of cases of student-police clashes touched the monthly average of about 30 incidents, etc. They were reasons for extension also.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : So, you are inspired by that! SHRI L.K. ADVANI : I am not inspired by this. I would tell you that we were conscious of the fact that we do not have a majority. But they had an absolute majority; they could do anything.

They used to do it. We have not done it. But we felt that Article 355 imposes on us a responsibility which we cannot shelve. Shri George Fernandes has read out what the Congress Party has stated in its manifesto. The Congress Party has said that the RJD Government in Bihar has no moral right to continue. Is supporting that Government and defending it against the wishes of the majority in the House, moral? What is this? I would say that the Congress Party's stand on this issue and its hypocrisy on this issue has been exposed today. Kum. Mayawati has thoroughly exposed the hypocrisy of the Congress Party insofar as the dalits are concerned. ...(Interruptions) I am not yielding.

MR. SPEAKER: Shri Ramdas Athavale, please take your seat.

... (Interruptions) ¸ÉÒ ±ÉÉ±É EÞò¹hÉ +Éb÷´ÉÉhÉÒ : VÉ½þÉÆ iÉEò vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ ºÉ´ÉÉ±É ½þè, =ºÉEòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉ {ÉÉJÉÆb÷{ÉÚhÉÇ ®ú´ÉèªÉÉ <xÉ EòÉMÉWÉÉiÉ ºÉä {ÉiÉÉ SÉ±ÉiÉÉ ½þè* ÊEòxÉ-ÊEòxÉ {ÉÊ®úÊºlÉÊiÉªÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ +É{ÉxÉä vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ |ÉªÉÉäMÉ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè, ÊEòxÉ-ÊEòxÉ ®úÉVªÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè, ÊEòiÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉ®ú ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ¨ÉÖZÉä xÉ½þÒÆ º¨É®úhÉ ÊEò +ÉVÉ iÉEò <iÉxÉÒ ¤ÉÉ®ú ½þÖ+É ½þè* ºÉÉä¨ÉxÉÉlÉ VÉÒ Ê¤É±EòÖ±É `öÒEò Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ, <ÆpùVÉÒiÉ VÉÒ Ê¤É±EòÖ±É `öÒEò Eò½þiÉä ½þèÆ ÊEò ½þ¨É VÉ¤É =vÉ®ú ¤Éè`öiÉä lÉä iÉÉä ´ÉÉVÉ{ÉäªÉÒ VÉÒ +Éè®ú ¨ÉèÆ vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ VÉ¤É ¦ÉÒ nùÖ¯û{ÉªÉÉäMÉ ½þÉäiÉÉ lÉÉ iÉÉä b÷]õEò®ú =ºÉEòÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ Eò®úiÉä lÉä* ¨ÉÖZÉä ªÉÉnù ½þè, ºÉÉäWÉ ºÉÉ½þ¤É xÉä ªÉÉnù Ênù±ÉÉªÉÉ, =xÉEòÉä Eò¹]õ ½þè <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ ÊEò =xÉEòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¤ÉJÉÉÇºiÉ EòÒ MÉ<Ç* +ÉVÉEò±É iÉÉä VÉ¨¨ÉÚ-Eò¶¨ÉÒ®ú EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú +Éè®ú Eòäxpù EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú, VÉ¨¨ÉÚ Eò¶¨ÉÒ®ú EòÒ xÉä¶ÉxÉ±É EòÉìxÉ£òäxºÉ +Éè®ú ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ¦ÉÉ®úiÉÒªÉ VÉxÉiÉÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÒ Ê¨ÉjÉiÉÉ ½þè EªÉÉäÆÊEò ½þ¨É ªÉ½þÉÆ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ¨ÉäÆ ½þèÆ +Éè®ú +SUôÒ-JÉÉºÉÒ Ê¨ÉjÉiÉÉ ½þè, BEò nùÚºÉ®úä {É®ú Ê´É¶´ÉÉºÉ ½þè* =xÉ ÊnùxÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨É Eò]õÖ +É±ÉÉäSÉEò lÉä ÊVÉxÉ ÊnùxÉÉäÆ ¨ÉäÆ ¡òÉ°üJÉ +¤ÉnùÖ±±ÉÉ {É®ú vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ |ÉªÉÉäMÉ Eò®úEòä =ºÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä ¦ÉÆMÉ ÊEòªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ* ½þ¨É Eò]õÖ +É±ÉÉäSÉEò lÉä ±ÉäÊEòxÉ Eò]õÖ +É±ÉÉäSÉEò ½þÉäiÉä ½þÖB ¦ÉÒ =xÉEòä ºÉÉlÉ EòÆvÉä ºÉä EòÆvÉÉ Ê¨É±ÉÉEò®ú ½þ¨É ºÉÆPÉ¹ÉÇ ¨ÉäÆ ¶ÉÉÊ¨É±É ½þÖB* ½þ¨ÉxÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò Eòäxpù ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú EòÉä <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú EòÉ nùÖ¯û{ÉªÉÉäMÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ +ÊvÉEòÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú EòÒ {ÉÊ®úÊºlÉÊiÉ Eò½þÒÆ {É®ú ¦ÉÒ +ÉiÉÒ ½þè +Éè®ú +ÉBMÉÒ iÉÉä vÉÉ®úÉ 356 Eòä nùÖ¯û{ÉªÉÉäMÉ EòÉ ½þ¨É Eò¦ÉÒ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úäÆMÉä* ªÉtÊ{É ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ ¦ÉÒ ºÉ½þÒ ½þè ÊEò ½þ¨ÉxÉä ÊEòºÉÒ º]õäVÉ {É®ú xÉ½þÒÆ Eò½þÉ* ªÉ½þÉÆ {É®ú ¤Éè`öÒ ½þÖ<Ç {ÉÉÊ]õÇªÉÉäÆ xÉä +±ÉMÉ-+±ÉMÉ º]õäVÉ {É®ú Eò½þÉ ½þè ÊEò Ê®ú{ÉÒ±É ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ Ê®ú{ÉÒ±É ½þÉäxÉä Eòä ¤ÉÉnù Eò¦ÉÒ-Eò¦ÉÒ ±ÉMÉiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ¤ÉÒVÉä{ÉÒ EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú VÉÉ ®ú½þÒ ½þè, VÉÉxÉä nùÉä, EòÉä<Ç ¤ÉÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ* ½þ¨ÉxÉä Eò¦ÉÒ BäºÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ÊEòªÉÉ* ½þ¨ÉäÆ +MÉ®ú {ÉºÉÆnù xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäMÉÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú, iÉÉä ¦ÉÒ ½þ¨É Eò½þäÆMÉä ÊEò 356 EòÉ |ÉªÉÉäMÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäMÉÉ, VÉ¤É iÉEò EòäºÉ xÉ ½þÉä* ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò Ê{ÉUô±Éä ºÉÉ±É ¦É®ú ¨ÉäÆ ÊVÉiÉxÉÒ VÉÉxÉEòÉ®úÒ ±ÉMÉÉiÉÉ®ú Ê¤É½þÉ®ú ºÉä ½þ¨ÉäÆ +ÉìÊ¡òÊ¶ÉªÉ±ÉÒ Ê¨É±ÉiÉÒ ®ú½þÒ, =ºÉºÉä {É½þ±Éä Ê¨É±ÉiÉÒ lÉÒ +xÉ+ÉìÊ¡òÊ¶ÉªÉ±ÉÒ, VÉ¤É VÉÉEò®ú nùäJÉiÉä lÉä, ´ÉhÉÇxÉ ºÉÖxÉiÉä lÉä ÊEò ÊEòºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú ´É½þÉÆ +{É®úÉvÉ EòÉä ºÉÆ®úIÉhÉ Ê¨É±É ®ú½þÉ ½þè* +{É®úÉvÉ ¤ÉgøiÉÉ ½þè ªÉ½þ ¤ÉÉiÉ xÉ½þÒÆ, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú uÉ®úÉ +É¶ÉÒ´ÉÉÇnù? VÉèºÉä ºÉÒ.{ÉÒ.+É<Ç. EòÒ ªÉÚÊxÉ]õ EòÉ =±±ÉäJÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä VÉÉVÉÇ xÉä ÊEòªÉÉ ÊEò Kidnapping, rape and murder have become occupations. EªÉÉ Ê±ÉJÉÉ ½þè -- °ü]õÒxÉ* +Éè®ú BäºÉÒ ÊºlÉÊiÉ Eòä EòÉ®úhÉ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +Éè®ú <ºÉÒÊ±ÉB ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉä VÉÉxÉiÉä ½þÖB ¦ÉÒ ÊEò ªÉ½þ |ÉÉäE±Éä¨Éä¶ÉxÉ {ÉÉºÉ ½þÉäMÉÉ ªÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäMÉÉ, ½þ¨ÉxÉä +É¶ÉÉ EòÒ lÉÒ ÊEò EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ nù±ÉMÉiÉ ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉ ºÉä >ð{É®ú =`öEò®ú <ºÉEòÉ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ Eò®úäMÉÒ +Éè®ú ªÉ½þ {ÉÉÊ®úiÉ ½þÉä VÉÉBMÉÉ* +¦ÉÒ ¦ÉÒ ¨ÉèÆxÉä +É¶ÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ UôÉäc÷Ò ½þè* +¦ÉÒ ¦ÉÒ ¨ÉèÆ ºÉ¨ÉZÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò +Éè®ú EòÖUô xÉ½þÒÆ iÉÉä +{ÉxÉÉ Ê½þiÉ ½þÒ ºÉ¨ÉZÉ ¨ÉäÆ +ÉB* ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ºÉÉvÉÉ®úhÉiÉ& +´ÉºÉ®ú´ÉÉÊnùiÉÉ º´ÉÉlÉÇ Eòä Ê±ÉB ½þÉäiÉÒ ½þè* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉÖZÉä +É¶SÉªÉÇ ½þÉäiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò <ºÉ ¤ÉÉ®ú EòÒ +´ÉºÉ®ú´ÉÉÊnùiÉÉ iÉÉä +Éi¨É½þiªÉÉ Eòä Ê±ÉB ½þè, ªÉ½þ ºÉÖºÉÉ<b÷±É ½þè, +É{É EªÉÉ Eò®ú ®ú½þä ½þÉä? <ºÉÒÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆxÉä Eò±É Eò½þÉ lÉÉ +Éè®ú +xÉÉªÉÉºÉ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò½þÉ lÉÉ ¨Éä®úÉ VÉÉä Ê½þÆnùÖºiÉÉxÉ Eòä ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò PÉ]õxÉÉFò¨É EòÉ Ê´É¶±Éä¹ÉhÉ ®ú½þÉ ½þè, =ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉÖZÉä ±ÉMÉiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ¶ÉÉªÉnù EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ ¶ÉÉ½þ¤ÉÉxÉÉäÆ Eòä ¨ÉÉ¨É±Éä ¨ÉäÆ +´ÉºÉ®ú´ÉÉnù xÉ Eò®úiÉÒ iÉÉä <ºÉ ºlÉÉxÉ {É®ú xÉ {É½þÖÆSÉiÉÒ* Eò¦ÉÒ-Eò¦ÉÒ ¨ÉÖZÉä BäºÉÉ ±ÉMÉiÉÉ ½þè +Éè®ú ¨ÉÖZÉä Eò±É Eò½þxÉÉ {Éc÷É ÊEò ¨ÉèÆ +É{ÉºÉä +xÉÖ®úÉävÉ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò +É{É +{ÉxÉä Ê½þiÉ ¨ÉäÆ nùä¶É Ê½þiÉ EòÉä UôÉäc÷ nùÒÊVÉB, Ê¤É½þÉ®ú Eòä Ê½þiÉ EòÉä UôÉäc÷ nùÒÊVÉB* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ +{ÉxÉä Ê½þiÉ ¨ÉäÆ +{ÉxÉä ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ {É®ú {ÉÖxÉÊ´ÉÇSÉÉ®ú EòÊ®úªÉä ...(´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úÉäMÉä iÉÉä हमारा कोई घाटा नहीं होगा, बिहार का बहुत घाटा होगा।

What do you want to do? Do you want to bring back a Government of this kind ÊVÉºÉEòä EòÉ®úhÉ ªÉä ºÉÉ®úÒ ¤ÉÉiÉäÆ ½þÉäÆ, ÊVÉiÉxÉÒ +ÉVÉ Eò½þÒ MÉ<Ç ½þèÆ? ½þÉÆ ¨ÉÖZÉä +É¶SÉªÉÇ iÉÉä <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ ½þÖ+É ÊEò <xÉ nùÉäxÉÉäÆ {ÉIÉÉäÆ EòÒ +Éä®ú ºÉä BEò ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ ¦ÉÒ VÉ´ÉÉ¤É xÉ½þÒÆ ÊnùªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ* ´É½þ +{ÉxÉä ¨É½þÉ®úÉ¹]Å EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò®úäÆMÉä +Éè®ú |Énùä¶ÉÉäÆ EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò®úäÆMÉä, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ÊVÉiÉxÉä +É®úÉä{É Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú {É®ú ±ÉMÉÉªÉä MÉªÉä, =xÉ +É®úÉä{ÉÉäÆ EòÉ EòÉä<Ç =iiÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ÊnùªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +É{ÉEòä {ÉÉºÉ EòÉä<Ç =iiÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ÊºÉ´ÉÉªÉ <ºÉEòä ÊEò MÉÉÆvÉÒ VÉÒ EòÒ ½þiªÉÉ iÉEò {É½þÖÆSÉ VÉÉ+Éä, Uô: ÊnùºÉ¨¤É®ú EòÒ PÉ]õxÉÉ iÉEò {É½þÖÆSÉ VÉÉ+Éä +Éè®ú EòÉä<Ç VÉ´ÉÉ¤É xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* iÉEòÇ Eòä +ÉvÉÉ®ú {É®ú +MÉ®ú +É{É nùäJÉäÆMÉä iÉÉä ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ºÉÉ¨ÉÉxªÉ iÉÉè®ú {É®ú vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ ={ÉªÉÉäMÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÉäxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB, not for mal-administration and not for deterioration of law and order. ±ÉäÊEòxÉ +MÉ®ú EòÉä<Ç ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú ½þÉä VÉÉä Eò½þä ÊEò ½þ¨É xªÉÉªÉ{ÉÉÊ±ÉEòÉ EòÉä ¦ÉÒ xÉ½þÒÆ ¨ÉÉxÉäÆMÉä, ½þÉäiÉÉ ®ú½þäMÉÉ, ¤ÉÉä±ÉiÉä ½þÉäÆMÉä, +É{ÉxÉä ¨Éä®úä ºÉä ÊVÉFò ÊEòªÉÉ, ¨ÉèÆ =ºÉEòÒ VÉÉxÉEòÉ®úÒ Eò®ú ®ú½þÉ ½þÚÆ* ±ÉäÊEòxÉ ¨ÉÖZÉä +¦ÉÒ ÊVÉiÉxÉÉ {ÉiÉÉ ±ÉMÉÉ, about hundred cases are there in various High Courts of Maharashtra where the issue of contempt is involved. In this case my latest information is, Eò±É ¨ÉèÆxÉä 3,300 Eò½þÉ lÉÉ, +ÉVÉ ´É½þÉÆ ºÉä ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä ´ÉEòÒ±É +ÉªÉä* =x½þÉäÆxÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò Eò±É EòÒ {ÉÉÆSÉ ½þVÉÉ®ú ºÉä +ÊvÉEò EòÒ ºÉÆJªÉÉ EòÆ]õä¨{]õ EòäÊºÉºÉ EòÒ ½þè* ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) ªÉ½þ ¦ÉÒ ¤ÉiÉÉ nùäÆMÉä* +vªÉIÉ VÉÒ, ºÉÉä¨ÉxÉÉlÉ VÉÒ xÉä Eò±É BEò ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ ÊVÉFò ÊEòªÉÉ +Éè®ú ¨ÉÖZÉä ±ÉMÉÉ ÊEò =xÉEòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ +ÉìxÉ Ênù ¡òäºÉ +Éì¡ò <]õ EòÖUô ´ÉVÉxÉnùÉ®ú ±ÉMÉiÉÒ ½þè* =x½þÉäÆxÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò +É{ÉxÉä ½þÉ<Ç EòÉä]õÇ Eòä BEò VÉVÉ¨ÉèÆ]õ EòÉ ÊVÉFò ÊEòªÉÉ ½þè ÊVÉºÉ¨ÉäÆ Ê®ú¨ÉÚ´É±É +Éì¡ò <xÉFòÉäSÉ¨ÉèÆ]õ EòÉ <¶ªÉÚ ½þè* ºÉÉä¨ÉxÉÉlÉ VÉÒ <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉä B|ÉÒÊ¶ÉB]õ Eò®úäÆMÉä Removal of encroachments may be a small thing but that judgement has also mentioned that there is a design behind disregard of the judiciary.

SHRI SOMNATH CHATTERJEE : No material is given.

SHRI L.K. ADVANI: I have a number of judgements in which very serious allegations have been made but there is no such phraseology like, `failure of the Constitution' or the `break-down of the Constitution'. I used it because of that.

I have with me another judgement delivered in December 1998, which says, "This court is frequently coming across allegations of fraudulent appointments in schools. The standard and level of school education in the State is in a state of sordidness and Government money spent for education is not properly utilised. These are undisputed facts in almost all the cases relating to school education. Since this matter relates to a purported attempt to gag an inquiry into fraudulent appointments, promotion of primary teachers in the State from the year 1980 till date, and there is a flourishing caucus in the Education Department. This court feels it necessary to entrust the investigation to the CBI. The Party has also invited a CBI probe in the matter."

There are a number of such judgements delivered one after the other. ¨ÉÖZÉä {ÉiÉÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ÊEò Ê½þÆnùÖºiÉÉxÉ EòÒ ÊEòºÉÒ ®úÉVªÉ ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú Eòä ¤ÉÉ®úä ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þÒÆ Eòä ¦ÉÒ =SSÉ xªÉÉªÉÉ±ÉªÉ xÉä <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú EòÒ <xÉb÷É<E]õ¨ÉèÆ]õ b÷ä +É¡]õ®ú b÷ä nùÒ ½þÉä* Ê½þÆnùÖºiÉÉxÉ ¨ÉäÆ Eò½þÒ BäºÉÉ =nùÉ½þ®úhÉ xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* 22.00 hrs. ... (´ªÉ´ÉvÉÉxÉ) +vªÉIÉ ¨É½þÉänùªÉ, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä Ê´É{ÉIÉ Eòä xÉäiÉÉ xÉä Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ Eò®úxÉä Eòä ¤É½þÉxÉä =xÉEòÉä nùÖÊxÉªÉÉ¦É®ú Eòä ºÉÊ]õÇÊ¡òEòä]õ nùä ÊnùB, Ê®úVÉ´ÉÇ ¤ÉèÆEò EòÉ ¦ÉÒ ºÉÊ]õÇÊ¡òEòä]õ nùä ÊnùªÉÉ ÊVÉºÉEòÉ =iiÉ®ú +ÉVÉ ºÉÖ¤É½þ VÉÉVÉÇ ¡òxÉÉÇxb÷ÒVÉ xÉä ÊnùªÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ iÉÉä Eòä´É±É ½þÉ<ÇEòÉä]õÇ Eòä ½þÒ BEò VÉVÉ¨ÉäÆ]õ Eòä {Éè®úÉOÉÉ¡ò EòÉä {ÉgøEò®ú ºÉÖxÉÉxÉÉ SÉÉ½þÚÆMÉÉ, VÉÉä ´É½þÉÆ EòÒ EòÖ±É Ê¨É±ÉÉEò®ú ÊºlÉÊiÉ EòÉ ´ÉhÉÇxÉ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þè:

"All these facts prima facie constitute gross financial indiscipline verging on fraud on the Constitution and the people. It is an irony of situation that while employees are not getting their salary on time in this State, writ petitions have been filed for payment of pension, contractor bills, lawyers fees bills, for construction and repair of roads and bridges, hundreds of crores of rupees were allowed to be swindled. The usual plea of the State in all such matters is, `paucity of funds'. Where all this money in the Animal Husbandry Department came from? That reminds me of the famous quote: `Nero fiddled while Rome burnt'. <ºÉ |ÉEòÉ®ú Eòä BEò xÉ½þÒÆ, nùÉä xÉ½þÒÆ nùVÉÇxÉÉäÆ EòäºÉ ½þèÆ* ¨ÉèÆ ½þVÉÉ®úÉäÆ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò½þÚÆMÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ BäºÉÉ BMVÉÉVÉ®úä¶ÉxÉ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò°üÆMÉÉ* +É{ÉEòä ªÉ½þÉÆ ±ÉÉäMÉÉäÆ EòÒ ÊEòiÉxÉÒ ½þiªÉÉBÆ ½þÖ<ÇÆ, +MÉ®ú EòÉä<Ç BMVÉVÉ®úä¶ÉxÉ Eò®úä, iÉÉä `öÒEò xÉ½þÒÆ ½þè* BEò xÉ½þÒÆ nùVÉÇxÉÉäÆ BäºÉä =nùÉ½þ®úhÉ ½þèÆ* <ºÉÒ EòÉ®úhÉ vÉÉ®úÉ 356 EòÉ ={ÉªÉÉäMÉ Eò®úxÉä EòÉ ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ MÉªÉÉ* ¨Éä®úÒ ¨ÉÉxªÉiÉÉ ½þè ÊEò ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉä ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉ EòÉ Ê´ÉSÉÉ®ú xÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þÖB, ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò ±ÉÉ¦É xÉ =`öÉiÉä ½þÖB, ªÉ½þ ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ Ê±ÉªÉÉ* ½þ¨ÉEòÉä <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÒ ¦ÉÒ VÉÉxÉEòÉ®úÒ lÉÒ ÊEò ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä Eò<Ç ºÉ½þªÉÉäMÉÒ ½þèÆ, ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇEò ½þèÆ ÊVÉxÉEòÉä ÊºÉrÉxiÉiÉ:vÉÉ®úÉ 356 ºÉä Ê´É®úÉävÉ ½þè +Éè®ú =ºÉEòÉä Ê®ú{ÉÒ±É Eò®úxÉä EòÒ ¤ÉÉiÉ Eò½þÒ ½þè* ªÉ½þÉÆ iÉEò ÊEò VÉèºÉÉ +ÉVÉ ºÉÖ¤É½þ <xpùVÉÒiÉ VÉÒ xÉä ¤ÉiÉÉªÉÉ ÊEò VÉ¤É <Æ]õ®ú º]õä]õ EòÉèÆÊºÉ±É ¨ÉäÆ BEò ÊºlÉÊiÉ BäºÉÒ +É MÉ<Ç +Éè®ú <ºÉ ¤ÉÉiÉ EòÉ ºÉ¤É ±ÉÉäMÉ ºÉ{ÉÉä]õÇ Eò®úxÉä Eòä Ê±ÉB iÉèªÉÉ®ú ½þÉä MÉB, ±ÉäÊEòxÉ Ê¶É®úÉä¨ÉhÉÒ +EòÉ±ÉÒ nù±É iÉèªÉÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ ½þÖ+É* ´Éä iÉèªÉÉ®ú xÉ½þÒÆ lÉä +Éè®ú =x½þÉäÆxÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ Ê´É®úÉävÉ ½þè, ½þ¨ÉÉ®úÉ <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ¨ÉiÉ¦Éänù ½þè* ªÉä EòÊ`öxÉÉ<ªÉÉÆ ½þÉäiÉä ½þÖB ¦ÉÒ ½þ¨ÉxÉä ªÉÊnù ´É½þÉÆ ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ±ÉMÉÉªÉÉ, iÉÉä ½þ¨ÉxÉä Eòä´É±É +{ÉxÉä EòiÉÇ´ªÉ EòÉ {ÉÉ±ÉxÉ ÊEòªÉÉ +Éè®ú ½þ¨ÉxÉä Eò½þÉ ÊEò ªÉ½þ ¨ÉÉ¨É±ÉÉ Ê¤É½þÉ®ú EòÒ VÉxÉiÉÉ Eòä |ÉÊiÉ, nùä¶É EòÒ VÉxÉiÉÉ Eòä |ÉÊiÉ +Éè®ú ºÉÆÊ´ÉvÉÉxÉ Eòä |ÉÊiÉ ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä nùÉÊªÉi´É +Éè®ú ½þ¨ÉÉ®úä EòiÉÇ´ªÉ EòÉ ½þè <ºÉÊ±ÉB ½þ¨ÉxÉä ´É½þÉÆ ®úÉ¹]Å{ÉÊiÉ ¶ÉÉºÉxÉ ±ÉMÉÉxÉä EòÉ ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ ÊEòªÉÉ* ½þ¨ÉxÉä ºÉÉäSÉÉ ÊEò <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ ½þ¨ÉäÆ Eòä´É±É ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò ºÉÖÊ´ÉvÉÉ +Éè®ú +ºÉÖÊ´ÉvÉÉ EòÉ vªÉÉxÉ ®úJÉEò®ú, =ºÉEòä +ÉvÉÉ®ú {É®ú ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ xÉ½þÒÆ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB ¤ÉÊ±Eò ½þ¨ÉxÉä ºÉÉäSÉÉ, <ºÉ¨ÉäÆ +MÉ®ú ®úÉVÉxÉÒÊiÉEò +ºÉÖÊ´ÉvÉÉ ¦ÉÒ ½þÉä, iÉÉä ¦ÉÒ ½þ¨ÉäÆ ºÉ½þÒ ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ Eò®úxÉÉ SÉÉÊ½þB* <ºÉÊ±ÉB ¨ÉèÆ ¨ÉÉxÉiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò ºÉ®úEòÉ®ú xÉä Ê¤É±ÉEòÖ±É ºÉ½þÒ ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ ÊEòªÉÉ* ¨ÉèÆ BEò ¤ÉÉ®ú {ÉÖxÉ:EòÉÆOÉäºÉ {ÉÉ]õÒÇ EòÉä Ê´É¶Éä¹É °ü{É ºÉä +xÉÖ®úÉävÉ Eò®úiÉÉ ½þÚÆ ÊEò +É{É +{ÉxÉä ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ {É®ú {ÉÖÊxÉÊ´ÉÇSÉÉ®ú EòÊ®úB +Éè®ú ºÉ½þÒ ÊxÉhÉÇªÉ Eò®úiÉä ½þÖB <ºÉ |ÉºiÉÉ´É EòÉ ºÉ¨ÉlÉÇxÉ EòÊ®úB* MR. SPEAKER: The question is:

"That this House approves the Proclamation issued by the President on the 12th February, 1999 under article 356 of the Constitution in relation to the State of Bihar."

Those in favour will please say `Aye'.

SEVERAL HON. MEMBERS: `Aye' MR. SPEAKER: Those against will please say `No'.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: `No' MR. SPEAKER: I think, the `Ayes' have it. The `Ayes' have it.

SOME HON. MEMBERS: The `Noes' have it.

MR. SPEAKER: I shall put the question again.

Let the Lobbies be cleared --

MR. SPEAKER: Now the lobbies are cleared.

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Regarding Approval Of The Proclamation Issued By The President Under The Article ... on 26 February, 1999